LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1DCA_int_010.5226Alright, first of all we're gonna1.9538
3 3.4027take you back to your childhood.5.0078 
5 6.2049Hm?6.4211 
6DCA_se3_ag4_m_016.5951Name. (whispered)7.0772
7DCA_int_019.2567Yeah, why don't you just say your name /on the tape/.11.2797
8DCA_se3_ag4_m_0111.3194Ah,11.8554
10 12.4591/RD-NAME-3/13.2540 
12 13.7520/RD-NAME-2/15.1644 
13DCA_int_0115.6675Good.15.9794
15 18.5350Okay,19.1941 
17 21.2423what kind of games22.2651 
19 22.4823were there that you used to play as a child?24.4762 
21 25.5053In the neighborhood with the other kids?27.1932 
22DCA_se3_ag4_m_0127.2890Mm-hm.27.5927
23DCA_int_0129.8013In general.30.2962
24DCA_se3_ag4_m_0132.4043Well,33.0229
26 33.8002uh,34.3942 
28 34.5937they were mostly um35.8595 
30 37.1389type of running games.38.4920 
32 39.6257Uh,40.0761 
34 40.8346which, uh,41.6392 
36 42.3035like, uh, one called, uh44.1374 
38 44.3870I Spy,45.4127 
40 47.0846tag.47.7707 
42 51.2908That's when we were small.52.2664 
43DCA_int_0152.3751Mm-hm.52.7433
45 52.9092That's what I mean.53.6046 
46DCA_se3_ag4_m_0153.8463Yes, uh54.7912
47DCA_int_0157.9415How did you play I Spy? I don't think we played that.60.4841
48DCA_se3_ag4_m_0160.7605Well,61.1320
50 61.6771well, I tell you,62.3324 
52 62.6992uh, I understand that the correct pronunciation for it is I Spy66.5021 
53DCA_int_0166.8064Oh yeah?67.3784
54DCA_se3_ag4_m_0167.3784but uh we always called it, I think69.7175
55 70.6020High Spy,71.5493
56DCA_int_0171.8229Oh, I see.72.6365
57DCA_se3_ag4_m_0172.7049I think.73.1916
59 73.6532You'd73.9575 
61 74.3650run74.8822 
63 75.7152around a uh,76.8583 
65 78.9340well uh,79.3378 
67 79.5802one of the kids would put his head against the tree or against the wall.82.6826 
68DCA_int_0182.6866Mm-hm.83.1500
69DCA_se3_ag4_m_0183.4448And you run and hide,84.6466
71 85.1844and he'd have to come to find you.86.4094 
73 87.1562Then you have to87.8912 
75 89.2878beat him back90.3735 
77 91.0713to the place where he left,92.4948 
78DCA_int_0192.5025Mm-hm.92.9965
79DCA_se3_ag4_m_0192.9940you see.93.4092
80 93.8301Now, if he beats you back,95.0264
82 96.0247after he sees where you are hiding,97.6788 
84 98.5841now99.0435 
86 99.3474that is a sort of a100.5735 
88 100.7597mark against you.101.8213 
89DCA_int_01102.2736Uh-hm.102.8564
90DCA_se3_ag4_m_01102.9532And of course103.8237
92 104.7679you take the105.8067 
94 106.5854losing ma- man's uh, the losing108.8504 
96 109.5778child's place110.5104 
98 111.5176on the112.3756 
100 114.8562next uh, you might call it, inning, of the game you see,117.5980 
102 118.3627if he gets back before you get back120.1340 
104 120.6374to this place where he left.121.4355 
105DCA_int_01123.0033Was there a name for the place where he stood?125.0137
106DCA_se3_ag4_m_01125.0220No, any place beside a tr- well uh126.9233
108 127.1350eyes up to a tree or128.7748 
110 129.1200against a brick wall,130.1703 
112 130.3820just so he couldn't see131.7738 
114 132.2720where the other kids are running to hide.134.5065 
116 134.7130It might be behind a135.9512 
118 136.2792tree or137.0430 
120 137.4753in those days were /penny/ wagons around, you know.139.9662 
122 140.4602And you could hide behind a wagon or,142.0092 
124 142.3745and uh also there were quite a few vacant lots at that time.145.2567 
126 146.5353And uh147.0673 
128 147.2914of course you could uh148.4834 
130 149.4258hide on the vacant- in the- on the vacant lots behind trees and what not.152.9135 
131DCA_int_01153.1554Mm-hm.153.7438
133 154.7412You didn't call it home or anything?156.4313 
134DCA_se3_ag4_m_01156.5506No, we didn't call it home.157.9209
136 159.3915In fact I've never heard of the word- a game called home.162.6117 
137DCA_int_01163.6680Mm.163.9360
138DCA_se3_ag4_m_01163.9918Uh.164.2284
139DCA_int_01165.2127How did you pick the guy to be 'it' the first time?167.4019
140DCA_se3_ag4_m_01172.1284Well, let's see now. <laugh>173.7006
141DCA_int_01175.4618Sometimes kids tell us their rhymes and-177.6356
142DCA_se3_ag4_m_01177.8504Yes, well I don't recall how we exactly t- pick the person who was it.181.7062
144 181.9896We just started off playing.183.4754 
145DCA_int_01183.7535<laugh>184.2158
146DCA_se3_ag4_m_01184.4194<laugh>185.2395
147DCA_int_01185.9055What if [everybody wanted] to hide?187.5560
148DCA_se3_ag4_m_01186.0975[Uh]186.8460
149 187.8036uh, well, it's hard to say just- I just don't recall how190.7071
151 190.8586we decided191.7970 
154 192.5515uh how the pers- to pick the person who was195.3908  
156 195.9632it.196.3595 
158 197.7060/Cause/ that's- that was the person who had to199.5168 
160 200.2929hide his face201.3216 
161DCA_int_01201.2912Uh-huh.201.6018
162DCA_se3_ag4_m_01202.4040while the others203.2980
164 204.0602ran to hide.204.9739 
165DCA_int_01206.2008Say one potato, two potato, or [anything?]208.6289
166DCA_se3_ag4_m_01208.5342[No,]209.0373
167 209.6482no.210.0638
169 210.4954Maybe that was the version of the same game212.7025 
171 213.2277in other parts of the214.3474 
173 215.8687um, other parts of the city or maybe other parts of the States,219.6071 
175 220.1522but, uh, no, we [didn't] uh play that one. No.222.5681 
176DCA_int_01221.1785/unintelligible/221.5702
177 223.3184How did you play tag when you were a kid?225.2442
178DCA_se3_ag4_m_01226.3866Well,226.9648
180 228.6653you stand a certain place- it's almost like the same /even when/ you didn't hide.232.0771 
182 232.6879Well, the233.1029 
184 233.7511uh,234.2080 
186 234.6277the one who was it,235.8438 
188 237.4037uh238.1498 
190 238.4948would have to239.1896 
192 239.5953catch239.9614 
194 240.1569one of the-240.5772 
196 241.0641one of the other kids, you know? And the one that he242.8891 
198 243.5465tags,244.2413 
200 244.9081that's the one who was245.8392 
202 246.0304'it'.246.3941 
204 247.3407And uh,248.0541 
206 248.2919and from then on that's the way they played the game.250.1696 
207DCA_int_01253.8495What uh254.5303
209 255.0432TV programs do you watch?256.8407 
211 258.8630Do you watch TV?259.9821 
212DCA_se3_ag4_m_01262.1806Yes.262.9081
214 264.0924I suppose the uh,265.4492 
216 266.8667my most regular one at this time269.3380 
218 271.3058uh,272.0985 
220 272.9191the one I, uh, is the uh,274.8226 
222 275.0279I- I prefer276.0102 
224 276.4110uh the um277.1490 
226 277.4618Meet the Press.278.3953 
227DCA_int_01278.9109Oh yeah?279.6290
228DCA_se3_ag4_m_01279.6197Uh yes, that's one I prefer. Uh, that's my- they only come on- it's only on once a week,283.5693
229 283.7502of course. But I prefer to see that if I can catch it.286.4776
231 286.9917And also if there is a288.8009 
233 290.2313worthwhile witness on there- sometimes the uh292.7679 
235 293.1409you- is uh, uh294.6890 
237 295.2019person on uh296.1041 
239 296.5891uh297.2792 
241 299.3962on uh300.2075 
243 300.4476Meet the Press to me isn't worth seeing.302.7418 
245 303.3153So at that case I would uh,305.1682 
247 305.8585wouldn't wanna bother with him.306.9278 
249 307.0727Now you k- take a man like Secretary308.9274 
251 309.3930Rusk,309.9647 
253 310.8903I like him on TV.312.1411 
255 312.8312I mean, uh, there are some people that on- on the316.0689 
257 316.2331Meet the Press, to me317.4647 
259 318.0942give straight forward answers319.9174 
261 320.1412to the questions that you ask them.321.7359 
263 322.7230Secretary Rusk,323.9867 
265 324.6189Hubert Humphrey,325.5421 
267 326.4934uh327.0436 
269 330.6993I would like uh-332.1541 
271 332.6973uh there's another person on there too, in politics. Uh,335.8868 
273 343.0571I don't mind343.8654 
275 344.1359hearing /Er-/345.0632 
277 345.6124Dick Nixon.346.4051 
279 348.6992Uh, he is not my349.6160 
281 349.7802favorite one, but I like to hear him talk sometimes. Uh, uh, I like to hear, he has a353.6779 
283 354.7726debatable way of talking, but uh he's not one of my favorite uh357.6893 
285 358.6312persons appear on- on uh, Meet the Press.360.9813 
287 361.9418And there's- there are several others who have been on there from time to time that I like, too.365.9892 
289 368.7053And of course I like the uh-370.9529 
291 371.4658get ideas on Meet the Press from those uh-374.0980 
293 376.1889from the persons from foreign countries. They're quite interesting379.2505 
295 380.0152on uh, on Meet the Press.381.3954 
297 381.9405Then uh,382.8715 
299 383.9782for the lighter side,385.1271 
301 385.5248I like the386.4150 
303 387.2641Beverly Hillbillies.388.3027 
304DCA_int_01388.4244Oh yeah. (laughing)389.3239
305DCA_se3_ag4_m_01389.5547I- that's I guess it's because uh there's something about uh392.9924
307 393.8592the one who plays the part of-394.9547 
309 395.3643of Granny on there.396.6527 
311 397.1217I think she's a wonderful person, but e-e- everybody on399.8232 
313 400.3753the Hill- uh Beverly Hillbillies to me402.6466 
315 403.6381uh404.1012 
317 404.6237is a wonderful actor,406.0724 
319 407.1411and I really enjoy that. I see it almost everyday because I'm here410.5750 
321 410.7344when it comes on.411.5410 
322DCA_int_01411.7438Is it [on during] the day?412.9783
323DCA_se3_ag4_m_01411.9998[So-]412.3234
324 412.9902Yes, it's on every day at ten thirty except uh,415.7355
326 418.8631Saturdays I think, and it's on another time on Saturdays I think.422.2839 
328 423.2219I think it's on in the afternoon on Saturdays.425.1100 
330 425.6799Mm-hm.426.1371 
332 426.7130But I- I usually see it on- in the mornings, at ten thirty in the mornings.429.3086 
333DCA_int_01430.5236Do you remember a time when you saw that was good that you could tell us about?434.0147
335 435.0346Sort of a story or an episode on437.2789 
337 437.9439Beverly Hillbillies. What they did,440.2831 
339 440.9006how they clowned around and?442.6342 
340DCA_se3_ag4_m_01449.4248Let's see now. I don't re- uh,451.4315
342 452.0371I mean, I couldn't give the full story of it.453.9056 
344 454.0022Uh,454.4127 
346 454.5189I could if I sat out and studied it. If I- for instance- for instance, if I'd- I'd known you wanted to ask that question459.1007 
348 459.5209I would have probably had the ch-460.3903 
350 460.5303I would have a chance to um461.9551 
352 462.3681study that, you see, or if I woulda464.0254 
354 464.1799observed the one this morning. But I didn't get a chance to do the one this morning because I was467.4690 
356 467.8511busy in the-468.5517 
358 469.0861raking leaves in the backyard. Trying to catch up on some of the spring cleaning on the outside. <laugh>473.6506 
360 474.5174But uh, I don't recall any spe- uh477.3079 
362 477.7591special ones which I could tell the whole story.479.5829 
364 479.9361I just enjoy their480.9930 
366 481.1874acting on the television,482.3526 
368 482.8097and I'm-483.3382 
370 483.6331and I haven't seen484.8325 
372 485.1056one yet in which there was a dull moment.487.1005 
373DCA_int_01487.2548[<laugh>] Yeah.489.5275
374DCA_se3_ag4_m_01487.3841[<laugh>]488.7200
375DCA_int_01492.1741You don't remember any of the493.4206
377 494.2699plots, or anything like that, do you?496.2398 
378DCA_se3_ag4_m_01508.4360Yes,509.1847
380 509.5179there was one uh510.6529 
382 511.2033plot in which512.2601 
384 512.7707Granny went to the races.514.4883 
385DCA_int_01514.6420<laugh>515.0576
386DCA_se3_ag4_m_01515.6869I don't remember- remember all the details,517.6818
388 518.2874but I do recall519.4125 
390 519.6105that was the- one of the funniest that521.8260 
392 522.9306I have seen523.8924 
394 524.2130on there.524.8186 
396 526.0773<laugh>526.5763 
398 526.9664The day Granny went to the races. <laugh>532.1283 
399DCA_int_01532.4226/That was a good one/?533.3145
400DCA_se3_ag4_m_01533.3509N-533.9740
402 534.1334[yes.]534.6260 
403DCA_int_01534.3618[What] did she do?535.2291
404DCA_se3_ag4_m_01537.0274Well, I don't remember the exact details, I just recall that it was uh,540.5712
406 540.8976uh, I do recall that542.2709 
408 543.5298she bet on a horse544.8261 
410 546.6936that was supposed to have547.8966 
412 548.6427lost the race,549.7338 
414 550.9019but it turned out that the horse won the race.553.1494 
416 554.3897And uh,555.2850 
418 557.6292well I don't recall the rest of it, but it was really funny.559.7679 
420 560.1301[<laugh>]561.4197 
421DCA_int_01561.0719[Yeah, that] sounds like a [/good- a really good./]563.5189
422DCA_se3_ag4_m_01562.0282[Mm-hm.]562.5161
424 562.7123[Mm-hm.]563.2457 
425DCA_int_01564.2622Are there any adventure stories that you watch? Like /these/ detectives and secret agents?569.4675
426DCA_se3_ag4_m_01573.6484This /reminds/ me one at night time. What is it? (whispered)575.4666
428 576.1194Uh (snapping fingers)576.9568 
430 581.2686comes on late at night, some detective story. (whispered)583.4881 
431DCA_int_01584.2715I don't even have a television, so I can't [<laugh>]586.8081
432DCA_se3_ag4_m_01586.0993[No?] We've got four of them here.588.1053
433DCA_int_01591.3031Well, there's no sense in-592.4126
434DCA_se3_ag4_m_01594.7350Oh, if I turn one on,596.9505
436 597.6767and it- it's a detective story,599.2674 
438 600.6929I'll like it, but I- i- if I'm in a mood to hear it- I- I'll604.3732 
440 604.5519probably605.2474 
442 605.4744well just sit there and look at it, you know. But I don't have607.6043 
444 607.9165many which who I prefer, so I just sit down and catch one now.610.7371 
446 610.9835For instance, like this afternoon at four thirty,612.7560 
448 613.1261I like to catch the um,614.4592 
450 615.4638story that comes on four thirty on617.2667 
452 617.6025WR- WRC TV uh because620.0878 
454 620.5168there's a time when I-621.4255 
456 622.2981I worked around the house. I've had my lunch. I've had my afternoon625.8347 
458 625.9748nap and I'm ready to627.2644 
460 627.5590see a627.8826 
462 628.2825TV show before629.5228 
464 630.1104dinner, you see.630.8658 
465DCA_int_01631.0327Mm-hm.631.3571
466DCA_se3_ag4_m_01631.3571And it comes right in632.3357
467 633.0072time for that.633.9304
469 634.4340I don't know wh- I don't know what will be there on this afternoon, but, uh637.6234 
471 640.8595I'll p- I won't see it this afternoon,642.9694 
473 643.5756but I mean I usually look at it on the four thirty, because I have to- I'll have to take the car to the shop you see. I can't take it648.9333 
475 649.2505/let's see/ this afternoon. Some days I can't see it.650.9455 
476DCA_int_01653.0307You go to the movies654.0432
478 654.1699ever?654.5264 
479DCA_se3_ag4_m_01655.6268Yes, I go to the movies,656.5729
481 656.8084uh quite a bit.657.6985 
483 658.5448Went to see one last night.659.9292 
484DCA_int_01660.0901Really?660.4072
485DCA_se3_ag4_m_01661.1737Yes.661.7593
487 662.9031Well,663.3275 
489 663.5186uh663.9663 
491 664.3510it was664.8546 
493 668.6883ex-, er- uh an exciting movie.670.7260 
495 673.4574Uh,674.0449 
497 674.7350I go see different types of movies.676.4132 
499 676.6020The one last night, of course, I saw was the one about, ah,679.3848 
501 679.8357/unintelligible/ (whispered)681.0238 
502DCA_int_01681.7547Oh, yeah?682.5381
504 683.8066Yeah, we'll take that off when we get into /inaudible/.685.6925 
505DCA_se3_ag4_m_01685.6829/I-/685.8761
506 686.9526And is uh, I went to see an exciting movie last night,689.3556
508 689.6913but it wasn't- it uh691.1735 
510 692.3089that was intended for adults only,694.0808 
512 694.5145more or less.695.1253 
514 695.9647I don't think it was advertised that way, but it sh- if it was not, it should have been advertised that way.700.1924 
516 700.4536Yes, uh-huh, I wouldn't take a kid of mine there, but it was a good story. It's- it's a normal story and705.3202 
518 705.9450had to do with crime and what not, but it was a good story.708.9201 
520 709.3491It wasn't suited for710.8086 
522 712.7593children,713.2708 
524 714.1194and uh714.6988 
526 715.8692so uh,716.5546 
528 716.9576but I717.6617 
530 719.6061also saw the-720.7299 
532 723.2231the picture entitled724.5959 
534 724.7199The Guest Who Came For Dinner.726.2509 
535DCA_int_01726.8851Oh yeah?727.3094
536DCA_se3_ag4_m_01727.4525I saw that, too.728.5716
538 729.0793I might go back- go back uh- and it- that particular picture,732.1662 
540 733.0241uh,733.7702 
542 734.2085I thought it would be a lot of comedy, well it was a lot of comedy in it,737.0529 
544 737.5098but there's a lot of serious,738.4867 
546 738.7152uh seriousness to it, too.739.8762 
547DCA_int_01740.1499What's it about?740.7747
548DCA_se3_ag4_m_01741.8845Well, it was about uh,743.5585
550 744.8322the uh,745.6202 
552 748.0599this white girl749.3329 
554 749.8551being en-750.3028 
556 750.5172uh become engaged to this colored man.752.5659 
558 752.8358You know, Sydney Poitier was the754.1321 
560 754.4072actor,754.9015 
562 755.1300[was the man.]755.9227 
563DCA_int_01755.1346[/unintelligible/]755.9786
564DCA_se3_ag4_m_01756.1512Uh-huh.756.6081
566 757.1357And uh757.7618 
568 757.9577he was invited758.9334 
570 759.2878and- and oh760.3556 
572 760.5561then he was invited to come to dinner.762.4306 
574 762.8456His parents763.6888 
576 765.6425didn't approve of the engagement.767.4098 
578 769.5642As a matter of fact770.4501 
580 770.8838his parents disapproved,772.7256 
582 773.1919according to the picture, most- more than her parents775.6898 
584 775.9322did.776.1514 
586 777.5549Course he- her parents put up the battle, too.779.7917 
588 780.4678But since it was their daughter,781.9084 
590 782.1064they782.4541 
592 782.5700gave in. They gave in to her wishes and what not.785.2054 
594 786.0681And uh,786.6230 
596 788.5566not without some opposition.789.9601 
598 791.8332And uh,792.5250 
600 794.3807but his father795.6957 
602 796.8910was quite797.9355 
604 798.4017bitter.798.9007 
605DCA_int_01799.3002Oh [yeah?]799.9666
606DCA_se3_ag4_m_01799.6033[He was] about the most bitter of all.801.5244
607 801.7436Yes, he was. Uh-huh.803.2031
609 804.3720He was just805.2533 
611 805.8968breaking convention,807.4775 
613 808.0356and uh808.8656 
615 809.2666of course,809.9847 
617 810.8007as his father811.8663 
619 812.0808lived812.7393 
621 813.7566that type of-814.4642 
623 815.2755of a breakthrough816.4785 
625 817.3538as he saw it, was not for his son.819.1537 
626DCA_int_01820.7982Is it the old school?821.9453
627DCA_se3_ag4_m_01821.9407Yes, uh-huh.822.8438
628 823.8183But it came out that uh825.4317
630 826.5182the guest827.2814 
632 827.4819th- uh, it- it wound up that uh they -829.8647 
634 830.1817they, that engagement went through as832.4682 
636 832.9438the girl had planned,834.0598 
638 834.4652and what not.835.0738 
639DCA_int_01836.2126Where was there room for comedy in that?837.9799
640DCA_se3_ag4_m_01839.2437Oh,839.7286
642 841.0202there was a lot of room for comedy in that uh843.5009 
643DCA_int_01844.5750Most people got surprised that-846.1091
644DCA_se3_ag4_m_01846.5350yes, well, uh847.9105
646 848.7794when this849.3017 
648 849.5208uh the /snow/ called- the so-called snobs came in853.7440 
650 854.2056who were854.8817 
652 855.1055uh,855.4413 
654 858.0697some people who were859.3193 
656 859.6443the wi- the um860.6748 
658 861.1178the um862.1296 
660 862.7731fiancee's863.6483 
662 864.8665friends-865.5810 
664 865.9937of the friend- of their- her- of her family rather.868.1771 
666 868.5851They're the ones that uh869.9327 
668 870.8233were real871.6207 
670 872.1149comic872.5533 
672 873.1827in their resistance to the girl be- becoming engaged to this876.7217 
674 877.5459colored man.878.1055 
676 878.8795It was really funny. That part was funny,880.5756 
678 881.1305and of course,881.8037 
680 882.0293the seriousness of his father883.8106 
682 884.7152was such885.4662 
684 886.2230that it886.7919 
686 887.7799reverted back888.8384 
688 889.1927to the889.6893 
690 892.0412comic side, you know? I mean you can get so serious [that you- you] can become896.4797 
691DCA_int_01894.4727[So serious.]895.1586
692DCA_se3_ag4_m_01896.9384uh897.6565
694 897.9106funny898.2160 
696 899.3369to-899.6610 
698 900.6565to your uh viewers,902.2256 
700 902.5380but not to the father himself. Wasn't funny to him.904.6963 
702 905.4586But he was so serious about being bent against908.2563 
704 908.8532his son marrying this girl,910.2124 
706 910.9678that it got to the point I mean he had a real913.7096 
708 916.2182grouchy, look on his face917.5309 
709DCA_int_01917.5355Hm.917.8200
710DCA_se3_ag4_m_01918.3084and if you've never seen a man that919.6513
712 920.7331uh showing that much opposition922.2765 
714 922.5796from his expression,923.4562 
716 923.7500the picture's worthwhile seeing.925.0964 
718 925.6979<laugh>926.3181 
719DCA_int_01926.3274That sounds like /the kind of movie I'd see/.928.2402
720DCA_se3_ag4_m_01928.2952<laugh>928.6542
722 928.9725Oh, it- it's they have a pretty full house there.931.1687 
724 932.1339Mm-hm. It's been there for ov- ab- b- it's been there uh934.8652 
726 935.1123almost three weeks now, I think, at the Palace.937.0450 
727DCA_int_01937.4917No kidding.937.9864
729 939.9140Did you ever have a pet?940.7067 
731 941.4722/At some point in your life/?942.3449 
732DCA_se3_ag4_m_01943.0801Yes, we had a pet once944.6759
734 946.0422that couldn't be a p- a pet that wasn't a pet.948.4109 
736 948.9830Oh, yes. We had others- had others here too.951.1186 
738 951.5896Uh,951.9999 
740 952.4009we had a dog here, a Doberman Pincher.954.4698 
742 955.6215And uh956.2370 
744 956.5110but she was uh957.9425 
746 959.1175sort of mentally unbalanced.960.4838 
747DCA_int_01961.0200<laugh>961.2019
749 962.0550A dog mentally unbalanced?963.6818 
750DCA_se3_ag4_m_01963.7337Oh yes, oh yes.964.6142
752 964.6795Many dogs here I think mentally unbalanced. One of 'em back here now thinks mental, the way he chases cars I think is mentally unbalanced. He does a lot of crazy things, chases birds.971.4593 
754 972.0906Yes, I- I think there plenty animals that are974.7965 
756 975.9715well, maybe not, b- you wouldn't call him mentally unbalanced as I said it. Uh, I- I just- he's- maybe he's just not a conventional dog.981.8281 
757DCA_int_01981.9328Mm-hm.982.2969
758DCA_se3_ag4_m_01982.4250I mean you can make friends with him.984.1596
760 985.7675Maybe he's not mentally unbalanced, but uh,987.6428 
762 989.4159maybe I use a too s- a too strong a term for a dog,992.2684 
764 993.5367uh994.1336 
765DCA_int_01994.6372No, you're probably right.995.9801
766DCA_se3_ag4_m_01995.9801but, uh, he- he- he wasn't a too a friendly dog. Well no Pinchers are.1000.9414
767 1001.3101Usually Pinchers are one man dogs anyway.1003.4084
769 1004.3130But uh1004.9192 
771 1005.5813this one1006.2598 
773 1007.2206uh,1007.5201 
775 1007.9104he just didn't uh1009.2440 
777 1010.4470act like a regular dog acts. Even th- um uh the- the- the uh um1015.3244 
779 1018.1781eccentric Pinchers,1019.4441 
781 1019.8358which are eccentric dogs.1021.1857 
783 1021.8712and this one was most eccentric.1023.7993 
784DCA_int_011024.3015Uh.1024.5751
785DCA_se3_ag4_m_011025.4500I can use the c- word eccentric for a dog, can I? [<laugh>]1028.0892
786DCA_int_011027.8653[Yeah] you do.1028.9844
787DCA_se3_ag4_m_011029.0497Well, you call him for his fo- his- call her for her food, she wouldn't come to you.1032.5584
788DCA_int_011032.8475Hm.1033.0154
789DCA_se3_ag4_m_011033.5353And after a while you call1035.0088
791 1035.3166until you're tired,1036.9952 
793 1037.6946and you see her peaking around the corner of the building1039.9010 
795 1040.1949[and things.]1040.8112 
796DCA_int_011040.3805[Oh no.]1041.1172
797DCA_se3_ag4_m_011041.0799<laugh>1042.3575
798 1043.5979And so uh,1044.5771
800 1045.8082she had some puppies. We had to have her destroyed1047.7140 
802 1048.0497because uh1048.8051 
804 1049.8869of the illness that resulted1051.1086 
805DCA_int_011051.7404Um.1051.9549
806DCA_se3_ag4_m_011052.8222from the birth of the puppies.1054.3610
808 1055.5453Had to have her destroyed.1056.7390 
810 1058.4270We've had1059.0612 
812 1061.1035um1061.8682 
814 1062.0735a parakeet here. We've had a canary.1064.0599 
816 1065.9612Don't have any now.1066.9218 
818 1067.1083Uh1067.5839 
820 1067.9103we st- we have- we have a tropical fish here now.1070.4038 
821DCA_int_011070.7815Oh.1071.0473
822DCA_se3_ag4_m_011071.2664Mm-hm.1071.6768
823DCA_int_011071.7840Very interesting.1072.5907
824DCA_se3_ag4_m_011072.5860Yes, uh-huh.1073.2855
825 1074.5165Quite interesting I think.1075.5936
826DCA_int_011076.0727Do you have to1076.6090
828 1077.7560bubble oxygen through the water and-1079.4860 
829DCA_se3_ag4_m_011079.4906Yeah, yeah- not oxygen. We have air, not [oxygen] Yes, uh-huh.1082.6809
830DCA_int_011081.6224[Air.]1081.8556
831DCA_se3_ag4_m_011084.0273And uh,1084.6988
833 1085.1604we also have1086.1443 
835 1087.1795uh,1087.9255 
837 1088.8628we have a um1089.7487 
839 1090.4750filters down there and also have the1092.1583 
841 1092.3868pump-1092.6199 
843 1093.0163air pump.1093.5979 
844DCA_int_011093.6900Mm-hm.1094.1460
845DCA_se3_ag4_m_011095.3570And also uh1096.5076
847 1099.1188I have a- a pump down there attached to steam engine.1101.5762 
848DCA_int_011101.8548Oh [yeah?]1102.4174
849DCA_se3_ag4_m_011102.1672[<laugh>] Well, I-1102.5767
850 1102.6848I don't- we haven't used it yet, but I can use it for that purpose.1105.0584
852 1105.5478Yeah, I'm gonna use it.1106.2892 
854 1106.7462I had it operating the other day1108.0938 
856 1108.4890uh, on the steam engine to see how it work and it took off like a jet.1111.7390 
858 1112.6762Oh yes, like a steam [engine <laugh>]1114.5898 
859DCA_int_011113.9166[<laugh>]1114.6188
860DCA_se3_ag4_m_011115.3982So it's uh1115.9904
862 1116.7132uh,1117.4266 
864 1118.4244one of the largest steam engines that you can get1121.1444 
866 1122.1537uh1122.9790 
868 1124.3219which you might can use as a sort of a hobby,1126.3037 
870 1127.1477you know.1127.5813 
872 1127.9299And steam engines, I've had two. This is the biggest one I've- I have1130.8722 
874 1131.2405there now is the1132.4742 
876 1133.7632operate every night- I had to operate another night down there while I was1136.2194 
878 1137.5669looking at television. <laugh>1138.9891 
879DCA_int_011140.6526Is that a hobby of yours, or?1142.0095
880DCA_se3_ag4_m_011144.0752Well, they have to call it a hobby because I like to fool with them. I always did like steam engines. You know that- that- this is something that uh1149.9284
882 1151.0429that hangs on to me ever since I was1153.5422 
884 1154.3127a small kid. You know, the fire department used to have steam engines to pump water.1157.8239 
885DCA_int_011158.3694Oh yeah?1158.8266
886DCA_se3_ag4_m_011158.8031Steam pumpers, that's before your time.1160.5082
887 1161.2683You don't remember that I don't supp- unless you see one in a museum.1163.4785
888DCA_int_011163.4960Yeah, I did. I saw one in the Smithsonian.1165.5570
889DCA_se3_ag4_m_011165.5574Yes,1166.0973
890DCA_int_011166.0922[/inaudible/]1166.6540
891DCA_se3_ag4_m_011166.3507[uh] they have them in the- in the Smithsonian and uh1168.8774
892 1169.6421and uh some places, they have different types. They have a uh1172.0482
894 1175.3309um1175.7785 
896 1176.0590(snapping)1177.1506 
898 1178.8374I can't think of what the name is called.1180.3238 
900 1180.4204A steam engine, but i- it's a- it doesn't as pump as /much as/ a direct pumping engine pumps.1184.0164 
902 1184.3211I mean the-1184.8427 
904 1185.0263the direct pumping engines have more capacity than the-1187.4074 
906 1188.0335the other type.1188.8980 
908 1190.6178And uh,1191.2602 
910 1191.8198I have always been an admirer of steam engines.1194.5741 
911DCA_int_011194.6247Mm-hm.1195.0141
912DCA_se3_ag4_m_011195.5128I- when I was in the- in the department I used to go and inspect buildings1198.8701
914 1199.3010and uh, I g-, inspect the ammonia plants1201.5671 
916 1202.3447those that operated by steam.1204.1072 
918 1204.3777I would watch them for a long time. Just look at them.1206.2242 
920 1206.6439<laugh> It always [fascinated] me ,1208.9964 
921DCA_int_011208.2379[/What/?]1208.5470
922DCA_se3_ag4_m_011209.3043and also the-1210.0863
924 1210.3613the trains.1211.2575 
925DCA_int_011211.3848Mm-hm.1212.0283
926DCA_se3_ag4_m_011212.0936Trains always, uh1213.7404
928 1214.4246railroad trains1215.4021 
930 1215.6416always-1216.2281 
932 1216.8428the uh1217.6192 
934 1217.8196steam engines always fascinated me. I'd go to watch 'em,1220.0287 
936 1220.1949wait for one to come past the different areas when I was a kid, you know.1222.7510 
938 1223.0211See them shoot pass and1224.2241 
940 1225.0075uh1225.6230 
942 1226.2292coming into Washington and1227.4788 
944 1227.8367places like that.1228.5921 
946 1228.8812Matter of fact, I raced one one time.1230.4386 
947DCA_int_011230.4852Did you really?1231.2686
948DCA_se3_ag4_m_011231.2779Yes, I was going to um1232.7537
950 1235.3369Chicago from Detroit1237.0715 
952 1238.8633uh1239.2270 
954 1239.4846back in nineteen thirty-five. I had a nineteen thirty-five Ford at that time.1243.2522 
956 1244.0356Brand new car.1244.8842 
958 1246.3950The was one of the1247.0851 
960 1247.4395first-1248.0830 
962 1248.7684that was the first V eight,1249.9807 
964 1250.3538but it was one of the first V eight engines that th- Ford put out.1252.8997 
966 1253.6178And I raced. I was on a1255.0415 
968 1255.2516high speed highway,1256.6054 
970 1256.7521and I was racing a New York Central train.1259.4108 
972 1262.0577It was, I guess on its way from to Chicago from um1264.7621 
974 1265.5921uh Detroit. That's what I was-1266.8704 
976 1267.0610where I was on a way for to anyway, and he was1269.6953 
978 1270.0626almost side by side with me.1272.0210 
980 1272.8044And I raced that train, and1274.6445 
982 1274.9231I went1275.3239 
984 1275.7140beside him neck to neck1276.8518 
986 1277.5859at seventy five miles an hour.1279.2765 
987DCA_int_011279.5749Hm.1279.8174
988DCA_se3_ag4_m_011280.4842<laugh> So uh-1282.9563
990 1283.0669I /thought- got- that- I-/ then I said that's too long. [I cut down.]1286.6103 
991DCA_int_011285.6134[<laugh>]1286.4154
992DCA_se3_ag4_m_011286.9036Racing of trains. He had the right of way, and I didn't have a right of the way.1289.2740
994 1289.4384Although, the- the- the uh1290.7531 
996 1290.8948the- the uh1292.1314 
998 1292.5321roadway now was /uh not as unlimited/.1294.7340 
1000 1295.4847But uh,1296.0583 
1002 1296.8417just racing the train,1298.1659 
1004 1298.8374I cut it out.1299.5461 
1005DCA_int_011299.5648Yeah.1299.9378
1006DCA_se3_ag4_m_011300.2549Uh they permitted the high speed driving on the road, but uh1302.8288
1008 1303.3511I just let him go ahead.1304.2438 
1010 1304.4637<laugh>1305.0453 
1011DCA_int_011305.0624For your own safety.1306.3867
1012DCA_se3_ag4_m_011306.3867Yes, uh-huh.1307.2260
1013 1307.7109So, I bought that steam engine. That's uh,1309.6833
1015 1310.1683uh i- it's still with me.1311.4552 
1016DCA_int_011312.0711Mm.1312.2890
1017DCA_se3_ag4_m_011313.1898Yesterday's living.1314.0727
1018DCA_int_011314.4426Yeah.1314.8176
1019DCA_se3_ag4_m_011314.7922<laugh>1315.5586
1020DCA_int_011315.6425Oh, I love steam engines [since I can] remember as a kid.1318.2367
1021DCA_se3_ag4_m_011316.6684[Mm-hm.]1317.2559
1022 1318.4403Yeah.1318.8413
1023DCA_int_011320.4919What did you study in school when you were a kid? Can you remember?1323.6217
1024DCA_se3_ag4_m_011324.8994In grade school?1325.7480
1025DCA_int_011325.9066Yeah.1326.1024
1026DCA_se3_ag4_m_011327.3800Well, I went to the Catholic school,1328.9934
1028 1330.6791and uh1331.5277 
1030 1332.1275course all Catholic schools have1334.6892 
1032 1335.0156religion.1335.6217 
1034 1337.3657Uh, they have uh1338.4661 
1036 1339.4826three times a week, they have what is known as catechism.1341.8233 
1038 1342.3770That is questions and answers,1343.8505 
1040 1344.6619uh, as to1345.6784 
1042 1346.9467who made you,1347.9072 
1044 1348.1355who is God,1348.9049 
1046 1349.9167uh1350.5649 
1048 1351.1074the Ten Commandments1352.2591 
1050 1354.3746and different practices1355.9916 
1052 1357.8890of your1358.5744 
1054 1358.8962faith1359.0734 
1056 1359.2692as a1359.7262 
1058 1360.1365Roman Catholic.1360.9152 
1060 1361.9832Then twice a week1362.9157 
1062 1363.3307they had what is known as Bible History.1365.8394 
1064 1368.3430That was1369.2232 
1066 1370.7002not in a- in the cata- /catechol/ form.1372.9416 
1068 1373.1607That was straight history1374.2903 
1070 1374.9944but the catechism itself,1376.4696 
1072 1376.9917what you should do under certain circumstances1379.3180 
1074 1379.4890of living1380.0884 
1076 1380.6849was1381.2584 
1078 1382.2486in the form of questions and answers.1384.5427 
1080 1385.9665Now, of course they had reading, spelling,1387.9079 
1082 1390.2518and of course the Catholic schools always had drills1393.7989 
1084 1394.5496in1395.0065 
1086 1395.9624the mulitplica- oh, in the uh1397.7655 
1088 1399.7146tables.1400.3674 
1090 1401.2939Arithmetic tables.1402.4783 
1092 1404.4397Addition,1405.1544 
1094 1405.8215multiplication1406.8660 
1096 1408.6087subtraction and division.1410.0554 
1098 1412.6666Mm, they have- they had drills. I mean if uh uh, if you- you wouldn't guess at at all,1417.6670 
1100 1417.9114try to1418.2829 
1102 1418.6006tax your mind,1419.4461 
1104 1419.6807you'd have to memorize them.1420.9564 
1106 1421.8805And1422.2253 
1108 1422.4989they all- everybody recited those tables in concert,1425.7425 
1109DCA_int_011426.3394Oh.1426.6191
1110DCA_se3_ag4_m_011426.6378which meant1427.2184
1112 1427.4335that they weren't hard to memorize, and you'd find a lot of1430.3171 
1114 1431.0396the uh1431.7784 
1116 1432.0570pupils that finished in the Catholic schools would know their tables because1435.7538 
1118 1436.5699they had those drills on tables.1438.7741 
1120 1440.3794They required that.1441.1628 
1122 1443.5688Not that they- they were any smarter than the public school children, but the thing of is1446.9095 
1124 1447.2858something that you do everyday, you [won't forget that so] very easily.1449.9788 
1125DCA_int_011448.7569[/inaudible/]1449.5194
1126 1450.0716Yeah.1450.4770
1128 1452.8200What did the kids do when school got out?1454.7225 
1130 1456.1694Do you remember?1456.9172 
1132 1457.9073Or do you notice what the kids do around here after school?1460.7423 
1133DCA_se3_ag4_m_011461.8241Well, let's see.1462.6582
1135 1464.3233I think the kids1465.2747 
1137 1466.0309today,1466.7482 
1139 1468.6879the /grade/ school kids today,1470.1428 
1141 1470.9500are1471.8027 
1143 1475.9985well I think they uh, well they're different.1478.5164 
1145 1480.1951Communication is different. They have radio, they have TV.1483.3845 
1147 1484.1119They have means of play-1485.8605 
1149 1486.1403better means of playing.1487.4086 
1151 1487.9681They're1488.2415 
1153 1488.6425better clothed1489.5751 
1155 1490.1440than we were.1490.8154 
1157 1492.4976You see all these kids around here, all going to school, they have um,1495.3606 
1159 1495.7896in bad weather, they have bad weather clothes on.1498.0604 
1161 1498.6852That's why I wonder sometimes why they close the schools because1501.3897 
1162DCA_int_011501.5949<laugh>1501.8164
1163DCA_se3_ag4_m_011501.8094kids around here are prepared to go in school in snow,1504.2993
1164 1504.5283and a lot of 'em like it,1505.4050
1166 1506.4028you see.1506.9624 
1168 1508.2668And uh1508.9290 
1170 1510.0434we didn't- they didn't close school for us.1511.4842 
1171DCA_int_011512.1557Oh no?1512.6639
1172DCA_se3_ag4_m_011512.7887No.1513.2690
1174 1513.4508No, they didn't close school when /we were going/- it was cold days of going to school, get to school you're so cold you couldn't sit in a chair so well.1518.2629 
1176 1518.5019But, these kids are well protected against cold.1520.3204 
1178 1520.9049And they don't have as far to go.1522.0799 
1180 1523.5846Most of them don't have as far to go, you see.1525.1373 
1182 1527.0491And uh1527.7392 
1184 1530.8822but uh1531.5163 
1186 1532.5468after school,1533.6053 
1188 1534.7012they'd get a little rough every now and then,1536.8182 
1190 1537.6808but not uh,1538.6227 
1192 1539.5134but uh1539.9983 
1194 1540.4274uh, those days it was to be expected, because uh,1543.8826 
1196 1548.8364because <laugh>1549.8436 
1198 1550.3052I like- I don't- I- I never thought of why it was that the1553.4107 
1200 1554.3807uh,1555.2946 
1202 1557.7255well, but1558.3446 
1204 1558.6384while the kids were little different, little- got a little rough coming home from school.1561.6879 
1206 1562.2382They had their battles.1563.1068 
1208 1563.7596They had their battles every now and then.1565.3076 
1210 1567.0828Uh, someone r- would take somebody's hat in school,1570.2862 
1212 1570.7385and the boys /were loud/ and teacher corrected him for it,1573.1870 
1214 1573.8029and of course it was, I'll get you after school. <laugh>1577.1162 
1216 1577.5358And that [happens,]1578.3845 
1217DCA_int_011578.0718[/I remember that./]1578.4941
1218DCA_se3_ag4_m_011578.7482well that happens [in s-] sometimes now too, but not- I don't think it happens much.1582.7583
1219DCA_int_011579.5198[School.]1579.8585
1220DCA_se3_ag4_m_011584.6176I don't know. It's hard to say which1586.4588
1222 1586.6543is which. I never had a1587.7491 
1224 1588.5717tally on that.1589.3085 
1226 1590.8320But i- I don't see1592.1936 
1228 1592.7631UH,1592.9100 
1230 1593.1127they'll play out here,1594.2639 
1232 1594.8235but as far as uh1596.2503 
1234 1596.9311fighting, I don't see much of it around kids now.1599.1285 
1235DCA_int_011602.3645Good.1602.5977
1237 1603.7821Did you ever a teacher that hollered a lot?1605.4700 
1239 1607.8236Do you remember?1608.6163 
1240DCA_se3_ag4_m_011608.9684Hollowed?1609.5209
1241DCA_int_011609.8846Hollered at the kids?1610.9384
1242DCA_se3_ag4_m_011612.4757Yes, I've- yes, I've had teachers that uh1614.3968
1244 1614.9190pretty st- were pretty strict. /I put up/- uh, pretty strict on the kids.1617.3873 
1246 1618.8547I had a sister who was -1619.7121 
1248 1619.9271uh, one of the Catholic sisters was pretty strict. She's v- she was very strict.1622.8107 
1250 1624.1642And uh1624.8124 
1252 1625.5584and of course there was some1626.8594 
1254 1626.9946pretty rough1627.4702 
1256 1629.5127children in the room, too you see? It's- they had to be strict sometimes.1633.0426 
1258 1633.9690Uh but they got order.1634.8142 
1260 1635.0182Most of them got order1635.9169 
1262 1636.4622in the schools.1637.0637 
1263DCA_int_011637.5953/What/ did they used to holler about?1639.1352
1265 1639.3544Do you know?1640.5096 
1266DCA_se3_ag4_m_011641.4128Well,1641.9397
1268 1642.2288for instance, you know how that is uh,1644.4203 
1270 1644.6768some people uh1645.6047 
1272 1647.1327well teachers, you know, are like anybody else.1649.8575 
1274 1650.5414They have their emotional1651.9076 
1276 1652.7376problems and what not, and they get disgusted with children sometimes, too because the children don't uh1657.4814 
1278 1658.5431do what they tell them.1659.4430 
1280 1660.4721They don't follow the instructions.1661.7544 
1282 1662.4165And of course,1663.1954 
1284 1663.4796sometimes the case where the children uh1665.6775 
1286 1665.8920just don't understand.1666.9738 
1288 1667.9795In that case it could be the teacher's fault, you see.1670.0545 
1290 1672.0114And uh,1672.5990 
1292 1674.9756but uh,1675.4652 
1294 1675.7030you have uh1676.4724 
1296 1676.8827some children who w- just wouldn't study- just wouldn't study, too.1680.0614 
1298 1681.4478That's another case1682.4690 
1300 1683.1172uh1683.6767 
1302 1683.8679where the teacher could become impatient with a child, you see.1686.5336 
1304 1686.8367He's working his-1687.6904 
1306 1688.0075she's working her tongue off to teach him something,1689.8074 
1308 1690.5068and he goes home and doesn't study.1692.2321 
1310 1694.4236And uh,1695.1735 
1312 1695.4509while she's teaching something, he's playing.1697.4327 
1314 1698.5658See the- the- that would work on anybody's patience, whether you are a teacher or a nun, whoever you might be,1703.2753 
1316 1703.9551you see..1704.2908 
1318 1705.5603And so1706.1245 
1320 1707.5234uh, yeah- there were problems in those days, a lot of them.1711.5040 
1322 1712.3154A lot of problems in those days.1713.8215 
1324 1717.3841The environment wasn't- huh?1718.5032 
1326 1718.9680The environment wasn't as free then as it was now. There was so much suppression at that time, you see, that uh,1724.1765 
1328 1724.9553that weighed on people's minds and on their lives that uh1727.4313 
1330 1730.9364uh,1731.5099 
1332 1732.9446you'd have to f-1733.5648 
1334 1734.6590f-1734.8769 
1336 1735.5154find this1736.2739 
1338 1736.4963smooth airs of- of- smooth running yous- for yourself, you see.1739.5225 
1340 1740.3572And then there is, I guess there are some who1742.5270 
1342 1745.4275uh1746.2808 
1344 1747.4186children that adjusted easily1748.9014 
1346 1749.6646to situations.1750.6112 
1348 1750.8470What- there weren't too many- as- as many I don't think as there are now days.1753.8919 
1350 1754.1362Well, I don't know, I take that back because1756.0912 
1352 1756.8053we are having a lot of trouble nowadays s-1758.5352 
1354 1758.8383with the,1759.4911 
1356 1760.2698not so much with the smaller children I don't think, but the- the larger ones,1763.0661 
1358 1764.1409with teenagers and what not.1765.3439 
1359DCA_int_011768.0335You think chan-1768.6023
1360DCA_se3_ag4_m_011768.6023But we had our problems though, you d- don't you forget that. We had uh plenty of them.1772.2301
1361 1772.6334As a matter of fact- and I think they're worse than they are today. Many people say that the problems today are1776.5969
1363 1777.4292are worse now. Maybe in some areas they are pretty bad1779.9075 
1365 1780.6536but I don't think they are as ba- I know they're not as bad1782.7042 
1367 1782.9193anywhere,1783.4520 
1369 1783.6622even in the deep south, as they were those days,1785.8092 
1371 1785.9105uh1786.2721 
1373 1786.4950back in those days.1787.4104 
1375 1788.9220Uh1789.3324 
1377 1790.2929you s- read in the papers this- this morning where1792.4309 
1379 1793.0184uh1793.4754 
1381 1796.1180sixteen white men were1797.5729 
1383 1798.4029indicted1798.9904 
1385 1799.6805for killing a Negro in Mississippi.1801.0234 
1387 1801.9700You hear that [in those days.]1803.0984 
1388DCA_int_011802.4615[/unintelligible/]1803.4850
1389DCA_se3_ag4_m_011803.3502[No], no indeed, you didn't /think that/ <laugh> /you would've/-1806.6702
1390DCA_int_011806.6608/unintelligible/1807.2577
1391DCA_se3_ag4_m_011807.2518Oh, <laugh> that's right.1808.6006
1392 1808.9036No, you'd hear for that in those days.1810.2867
1394 1810.6565And I mean there's a lot of- a lot of attached to that. I mean that uh1813.4295 
1396 1814.1957uh the uh,1815.1049 
1398 1815.6472certain people could do no wrong,1817.6662 
1400 1818.7247and- and uh /the others/-1820.2589 
1402 1820.4414everybody was wrong.1821.5192 
1403DCA_int_011825.5328Do you think things are changing then or?1827.3560
1404DCA_se3_ag4_m_011828.3119Oh yes, definitely so, definitely so. People- they- maybe- are they aren't changing fast enough for the number of people that we have on our hands. I mean1834.4471
1406 1834.8901and uh, for instance, like uh,1836.9592 
1408 1838.7918you see we have1839.6124 
1410 1839.9621so many1840.5963 
1412 1842.0453uh1842.7681 
1414 1843.2064people um, both Negroes and whites who are migrating from the south.1846.5124 
1416 1847.3739Mostly Negroes1848.2790 
1418 1848.7308because of- they're chased from the farms, and1850.9689 
1420 1851.5705because there- there's no food for 'em to eat,1853.4306 
1422 1853.6265and out of the S- S- States, and of course there are in the States,1857.7940 
1424 1858.7638uh there are still a lot of prejudices in the States, not only in the South, in the North too you see.1862.7178 
1426 1863.0013And they- and uh1864.0717 
1428 1864.8897it's1865.0949 
1430 1865.4213taking its toll- it's showing itself now.1867.0906 
1432 1867.3471Especially with the uh, I was reading the paper this morning about1870.4235 
1434 1870.8385where the white people are moving to the suburbs, you see.1873.1839 
1436 1873.8460And what they- creating a1875.1878 
1438 1875.7846se- segregated city- city pattern, you see.1878.1954 
1440 1879.0673Which1879.4197 
1442 1880.8614there's no st- there are no steps being taken to correct these things as they come up.1884.2093 
1444 1884.9880But the1886.3671 
1446 1887.2624Look Magazine1888.4934 
1448 1890.6232had this1891.1921 
1450 1893.0899uh, has an article in it and uh,1895.4167 
1452 1897.2492it's an interesting article1898.5070 
1454 1900.3675on s-1901.2301 
1456 1905.2251suburbia,1906.1763 
1458 1907.6172and uh,1908.3819 
1460 1910.7821and they have a seem- they seem to have a- they're trying to solve the-1913.8550 
1462 1914.6943Yes, it's the- the title of it is Scarsdale. Sc- sc- the scene is laid in Scarsdale, New York,1919.0716 
1464 1920.0695and uh,1920.6010 
1466 1921.7947and it's in title, uh, New Role for Suburban Schools.1924.9364 
1468 1926.5591And uh1927.3564 
1470 1929.0992they think that1929.8919 
1472 1931.1928if1931.4959 
1474 1932.1441they can get the1933.5569 
1476 1935.7240people to keep- to keep cool and remain where they are- stop- st- to stop keep running1940.1853 
1478 1940.5536because a Negro moves in- into the neighborhood.1942.5680 
1480 1943.8337Uh1944.2673 
1482 1945.0927they could [do]1945.7379 
1483DCA_int_011945.4063[/unintelligible/]1946.5008
1484DCA_se3_ag4_m_011946.2182[they-] do away with that, but see the thing of it is, uh,1949.0672
1485 1950.0418but see- but see they are pressured also by their, not only by their own fears,1954.5920
1487 1955.5477but also by-1956.3031 
1489 1956.5549by real estate lobby,1957.5808 
1490DCA_int_011957.8419Mm-hm.1958.3968
1491DCA_se3_ag4_m_011958.5646you see.1959.0962
1493 1959.6884They're interested in making a lot of money and building up new towns,1962.6274 
1495 1963.4082and uh1964.0610 
1497 1964.5926if they could- if uh, they might- it might get to the point where they'll have to1968.2389 
1499 1968.7285adopt1969.3909 
1501 1970.0708laws1970.8401 
1503 1971.1665in certain states1972.2716 
1505 1972.9897to curb the real estate lobby1974.2895 
1507 1975.7490uh1976.3552 
1509 1976.6816from1977.0406 
1511 1978.2343pushing the white people1979.6414 
1513 1980.4760uh1981.0123 
1515 1982.2153out into the uh,1983.4137 
1517 1983.9452further into the suburbia, you see1985.9725 
1519 1986.4760because of fears of their property running down because a Negro m- moves next to him.1990.3696 
1520DCA_int_011990.8102Mm-hm.1991.2004
1521DCA_se3_ag4_m_011992.0063And <laugh> it's one of those things of course, and-1994.9456
1523 1995.3326and uh1996.0507 
1525 1997.4531I don't know how they gonna do it,1998.5163 
1527 1998.8613but uh1999.4209 
1529 2000.0270it should come to a stand still somewhere that is. It's not as bad as- I mean whenever2004.1992 
1531 2004.7168people uh2005.3509 
1533 2005.8778like that are into insecure of situations like that you know.2009.2631 
1535 2009.8168Uh2010.3157 
1537 2011.2996it's like a2012.1296 
1539 2015.8736sort of a chain reaction2017.2903 
1541 2017.5887like you know.2018.3628 
1542DCA_int_012019.3047Right, I could tell you stories about that.2021.0160
1543DCA_se3_ag4_m_012021.0160Yeah, <laugh>2022.2645
1544 2023.2716because you- you can suppose- uh uh uh course you're a w- uh,2026.7269
1546 2028.1432suppose um,2029.0199 
1548 2029.3442they don't look at it this way, suppose2031.1321 
1550 2032.0694there is a Negro in the neighborhood2033.7888 
1552 2034.2430he gonna move in, and it could be a- a well adjusted person for the neighborhood,2037.2207 
1554 2037.5751but they all white,2038.4424 
1556 2038.7723you see.2039.2433 
1558 2040.6328And uh2041.2483 
1560 2041.7239he wants to buy a house in that neighborhood.2043.7523 
1562 2045.5557He's got the papers for it, but2046.9499 
1564 2047.4209things become so unpleasant before he moves in, he decides to not move into the house.2050.8965 
1566 2052.2318The house is sold to a white person,2053.7110 
1568 2055.4912who- who does not adopt2057.2077 
1570 2057.4688a- adopt2058.2452 
1572 2059.7997adapt well to the neighborhood,2061.4597 
1574 2061.9656you see.2062.4132 
1576 2063.1919He could be more trouble-2064.2399 
1578 2064.3705trouble to the neigh- the- the- neighbors then that Nigger- Negro that they chased out of there, you see.2068.3106 
1579DCA_int_012068.4254/inaudible/2069.2374
1580DCA_se3_ag4_m_012069.2339And uh,2069.6769
1581 2069.9975course they'd rather take a chance on the white person than the Negro. <laugh>2073.4946
1582DCA_int_012073.6252/I see/.2074.1661
1583DCA_se3_ag4_m_012074.1661But of course the thing of it is ,2075.7468
1584 2076.5617a Negro moving into a neighborhood,2078.1564
1586 2078.7672he's got be on his P's and Q's you see. He's gonna be on his P's and Q's. He's not gonna2082.6893 
1588 2082.9318do anything that would ruin his reputation with h- his neighbors.2085.7890 
1590 2087.5003Not as soon as the- the white person's moving in.2089.9809 
1592 2091.0662But course people can't see that. I mean it's- it's the one of those things that- where prejudice has uh,2095.6732 
1594 2096.7596has2097.1675 
1596 2097.4607taken its toll.2098.4627 
1598 2099.4816It's-2099.8593 
1600 2100.6474it's2100.9598 
1602 2101.2162there, and it's hard to remove.2102.6431 
1604 2103.9755What you going to do about it? <laugh>2106.2370 
1606 2106.9695So it hasn't- what have to be done about it? /Nothing/. And the Look magazine has a ver- very good article in there I think on that.2112.3258 
1607DCA_int_012113.8634I'll have to get that.2114.7960
1608DCA_se3_ag4_m_012114.9592Mm-hm.2116.2135
1609DCA_int_012117.0249You know the- can you remember the best teacher you ever had or a real good teacher you had?2121.4405
1611 2122.9268What she was like?2123.7382 
1612DCA_se3_ag4_m_012125.9157Now you talking as a- in grade s- grade school /you talking, or/?2128.8532
1613DCA_int_012128.8532In high [school or- or even] college.2131.3103
1614DCA_se3_ag4_m_012129.2869[In] high school or college?2130.4899
1615 2131.5390Well, I've had a lot of good teachers.2132.7980
1617 2133.3331A lot of them. I've had more good teachers than I've had bad teachers.2135.7065 
1618DCA_int_012136.0283Well that's good.2136.6602
1619DCA_se3_ag4_m_012136.7510Oh yes, I mean <laugh>2137.7395
1621 2138.0846/although/ I've- a- as a matter of fact, I don't2140.6993 
1623 2143.5624recall2144.3877 
1625 2144.9368having a- what I would call a bad teacher til I got high- to high school.2148.3500 
1627 2150.2187And that was in- that was only in English.2152.7180 
1628DCA_int_012153.3661Hm.2153.5387
1629DCA_se3_ag4_m_012156.2979Uh,2156.8435
1631 2157.5709then I had2158.4662 
1633 2159.8930a teacher2160.6857 
1635 2161.7022when I was in college2162.7969 
1637 2165.3894that I didn't think much of him as a teacher,2166.9748 
1639 2167.4085but he could-2168.0333 
1641 2168.3597he could be good at times, but for the most part,2171.2962 
1643 2171.8790I didn't think much of him as a teacher. His- his uh2174.4588 
1645 2174.9671way he put his subject over to me was a dry2177.2056 
1647 2177.4501s- uh uh a dry method.2179.4831 
1648DCA_int_012179.7924Mm-hm.2180.1978
1649DCA_se3_ag4_m_012180.2198And sin- incidentally, it was in my field, too.2182.2703
1651 2182.4882So uh2183.0354 
1653 2183.9024I didn't th- think much of him.2185.0354 
1654DCA_int_012185.3199Hm.2185.5250
1655DCA_se3_ag4_m_012186.4705He was a PhD from Yale.2188.2284
1657 2189.1749But I didn't think much of him as teacher.2191.0401 
1659 2191.3939But I had others,2192.1032 
1661 2192.7036and of course that can show up, because uh2195.2729 
1663 2195.6832from some other teachers that you've had, and to you,2198.0147 
1665 2198.5591who were more effective2200.0092 
1667 2200.4942as teachers, you see.2201.5041 
1668DCA_int_012206.9632Is there a group of people that you would associate with?2209.5884
1670 2210.7308Either as a kid or when you were in college, high school? A particular group of2214.7752 
1672 2215.1692people?2215.6192 
1673DCA_se3_ag4_m_012215.9497That -2216.2294
1675 2216.4906that I associated with?2217.6096 
1676DCA_int_012217.6703Yeah that was sort of your group,2219.1327
1678 2219.5678your2220.0606 
1680 2220.9056bunch or something like that.2222.2238 
1681DCA_se3_ag4_m_012223.4414Well2223.8978
1683 2224.1333mainly my, ah, fraternity brothers.2226.3622 
1684DCA_int_012227.0167Mm-hm.2227.3804
1685DCA_se3_ag4_m_012228.3340Oh there is anoth- there was another group, too.2230.3734
1687 2230.6485There was a group of uh uh-2232.0474 
1689 2232.9310there was a2233.3968 
1691 2234.1871a girls club2235.2596 
1693 2235.5877in the school. We used to go around with them.2237.4226 
1695 2238.0917I mean ah,2238.7282 
1697 2240.0682it wasn't a sister club to the fra- fraternity at all,2242.3867 
1699 2242.8507but it was uh,2244.3731 
1701 2244.6383a group that uh, you know how you have parties together, you know, like that you know. There was more in there.2249.1014 
1702DCA_int_012250.5545When you were a little kid was there a group, or-?2252.5438
1703DCA_se3_ag4_m_012253.2783Not particularly, no.2254.5885
1705 2254.8776Only neighborhood kids, that's all.2256.7236 
1706DCA_int_012259.1285In- in uh2259.9538
1708 2260.3956this group when you were older, was there anybody who spoke a foreign language?2263.6690 
1710 2266.2464In the group?2266.7407 
1711DCA_se3_ag4_m_012267.4401Well, there were2268.0230
1713 2268.4706uh, well there were several uh, couple of them there who's- who was- who- who were uh, who were studying French.2273.9903 
1714DCA_int_012274.4613Mm-hm.2274.9276
1715DCA_se3_ag4_m_012274.9369They sp-2275.4280
1717 2276.1213spoke it pretty2276.9093 
1719 2277.1844pretty good.2277.8232 
1720DCA_int_012278.2697[How] about as their native language? I mean their-2280.1302
1721DCA_se3_ag4_m_012278.4049[P]-2278.5821
1722DCA_int_012281.3845their mother tongue was French?2283.2357
1724 2283.5901Were any of 'em like that?2284.6800 
1725DCA_se3_ag4_m_012286.2748I don't recall any2287.7436
1727 2288.5736who were2289.2497 
1729 2289.4455foreigners.2290.0237 
1731 2290.2138Foreigners.2290.6241 
1733 2295.1098Hm.2295.4782 
1734DCA_int_012296.9505Were there any white people in the group?2298.3447
1735DCA_se3_ag4_m_012299.7902No, at that time Howard didn't have too many white2301.9538
1737 2302.2184at that time we had a- now and then, you see one, but2304.2497 
1739 2304.4403not too often.2305.1734 
1741 2305.5291The mainly uh the main2307.2497 
1743 2307.5155uh, you- you usually saw the white2309.2163 
1745 2309.4588uh2309.7012 
1747 2309.9903kids at Howard then at the Medical School,2312.3264 
1749 2313.1523at uh2313.7258 
1751 2313.9403but uh2314.4532 
1753 2315.5583I'd never- you don't come- didn't come across many of [them]2318.6871 
1754DCA_int_012318.4074[Uh-hum.]2318.6871
1755DCA_se3_ag4_m_012318.9331yeah, in the undergraduate's2320.2085
1757 2320.3506work at that time. Now there are a lot of them up there, but uh2322.5888 
1759 2323.3535I went to /RD-SCHOOL-7/.2324.2488 
1761 2325.0369And uh2325.5906 
1763 2326.8869there weren't ma- there weren't many there at that time.2328.7893 
1764DCA_int_012330.7384Do ever see any of those people anymore?2332.4439
1766 2335.1437Or not?2335.6566 
1767DCA_se3_ag4_m_012336.1369Yes, I see them. One goes to my church was in sch- that was in school as we- also one of my frat brothers.2340.3930
1769 2340.5702Goes to my church now and uh2341.7266 
1771 2342.4400as a matter of fact uh, I went back to my fraternity the other day here. Cause I s- I see some of the fellas,2347.1064 
1773 2347.8198uh2348.1136 
1775 2348.4074quite often.2348.8970 
1777 2349.6232Old frat, but a lot of them are dead.2351.0967 
1778DCA_int_012355.4880Hm, sad /unintelligible/.2357.8801
1780 2358.5842Let's see, in that group, uh,2360.2721 
1782 2360.9902is there any group today that you2363.1806 
1784 2363.5956call your special close friends2365.3908 
1786 2365.6898especially?2366.2168 
1788 2368.3506Or2368.7703 
1790 2369.1946not in particular?2370.2065 
1791DCA_se3_ag4_m_012372.5519I guess the uh2373.4274
1793 2373.9356for a group,2374.9195 
1795 2378.8830the main ones that I would find who- that I'm closer to as- as a group now,2382.6728 
1797 2383.7546is the social club that I belong to.2385.4320 
1798DCA_int_012385.8610Oh?2386.3320
1799DCA_se3_ag4_m_012386.8029It's called the /RD-WORK-3/2387.8474
1801 2388.3137/RD-WORD-3/2388.7893 
1803 2389.7592Club.2390.0250 
1805 2391.3901There are more in that group, and of course there's quite a few2393.8568 
1807 2394.1132who were in school with me at the time, too. And uh, and I've met2396.8597 
1809 2398.5185uh2398.8356 
1811 2399.2506got- become acquainted with subse-2400.4256 
1813 2400.6728subsequent who might join the club and also uh2403.1301 
1815 2406.9572people who uh,2407.8338 
1817 2408.3048just Washington citizens belong to the club, you see.2410.4999 
1819 2411.8614My social club is but the main one I /guess/- I think that, uh,2414.6778 
1821 2415.2315that I know most of fellas in there.2417.0128 
1822DCA_int_012417.3298Is there one person2418.5096
1824 2418.9945among them that everybody looks to as the leader?2421.4565 
1826 2422.3413Sort of?2422.5884 
1828 2424.0685[/inaudible/]2425.1377 
1829DCA_se3_ag4_m_012424.6308[Yes], uh, we had a secretary in there.2427.3866
1830 2428.2714Uh, he was secretary for a long time.2430.6681
1832 2431.5406And uh2432.2680 
1834 2433.4617he2434.0773 
1836 2434.8362was well acquainted with the-2435.9599 
1838 2436.2723way the club operated2437.3774 
1840 2437.8904with the constitution by- the constitution and bylaws.2440.5711 
1842 2441.7881And of course, uh2443.3175 
1844 2444.2210he was very effective in2445.7364 
1846 2446.3286keeping the club together, keeping you on the move. Gave it a sort of a2449.1496 
1848 2449.5075dynamic atmosphere, you see. He- he was good at that, and2452.5198 
1850 2452.7716he's still with us,2453.6600 
1852 2454.2264but he doesn't function at the- as the secretary because2457.0416 
1854 2458.1001uh, his work2459.4197 
1856 2460.2311with the post office2461.3356 
1858 2462.6126keeps him going from one city to the other.2464.4871 
1859DCA_int_012464.6736Oh.2464.9301
1860DCA_se3_ag4_m_012465.1912And that's why he can't function so very well as a secretary anymore.2468.2070
1862 2468.7758But when they- and whenever anyone wants any special advice,2471.6529 
1864 2472.7626uh they don't hesitate to call him.2474.6406 
1865DCA_int_012474.7867Mm-hm.2475.1870
1867 2476.2586What would you say there is about him that makes people turn to him?2479.2382 
1868DCA_se3_ag4_m_012480.1341Well, some total of a lot of things2482.1496
1870 2483.4494that go2484.3401 
1872 2485.1328with a person2486.0886 
1874 2487.0166who is a leader.2487.6694 
1876 2490.1209His appearance, his bearing, his talk,2492.1166 
1878 2492.9513knowledge of the club.2493.9538 
1880 2496.3494His working- his uh, long time working with the club, his intelligence.2500.0471 
1882 2502.7877Uh2503.2540 
1884 2507.0531he knows the club. He's- he- he knows the history of the club very well.2510.2192 
1886 2511.9165He knows uh how to operate a club.2513.9484 
1888 2514.6478I mean the things like that, you see.2516.2938 
1890 2517.9445And uh2518.6066 
1892 2519.4401we don't have anyone there that I can recall-2522.0653 
1894 2522.8300yes, I do too. We have2523.9290 
1896 2524.9459one member of the city council, belonged to the club. He- he /knew it/ very well, too.2528.2006 
1898 2529.0725But uh2529.7393 
1900 2530.1496this particular person2531.3422 
1902 2532.2794is uh2532.9556 
1904 2534.6575has a sum2535.3756 
1906 2535.9212total2536.4201 
1908 2536.8386of most everything2538.0463 
1910 2538.7317that a person needs2539.9068 
1912 2540.1866to run a club.2541.4997 
1913DCA_int_012542.3910/He really has it/.2542.9832
1914DCA_se3_ag4_m_012543.2583Yes, uh-huh.2544.0603
1915DCA_int_012544.8343How do new people get into the club?2546.7275
1916DCA_se3_ag4_m_012548.3257Well,2548.7547
1917DCA_int_012549.1588There a-2549.5896
1918DCA_se3_ag4_m_012549.7517they can apply themselves or else2552.0933
1920 2552.5363the uh2553.2124 
1922 2554.3770the other members can2555.3357 
1924 2555.6045submit names of their friends to get into the club.2557.8175 
1926 2558.6622It has a limit2559.4082 
1928 2560.2418to the number that can get in.2561.1464 
1930 2561.6406There's a limit to the number each year.2563.0721 
1932 2564.0840So when one person drops out2566.4423 
1934 2567.6453for any reason2568.3960 
1936 2569.9021another- another- another one can take his place.2572.2149 
1938 2572.8479But it doesn't exceed a certain number2574.5639 
1940 2574.7457of persons,2575.4338 
1942 2576.1026of members.2576.7228 
1943DCA_int_012576.9093Hm.2577.0997
1945 2578.9971Are there any Caucasians in that club?2580.6602 
1946DCA_se3_ag4_m_012580.7411No, there are not.2581.4778
1948 2582.1073No.2582.3684 
1950 2583.2637Not that they- they- they're not barred from it.2585.2862 
1952 2586.4660But it's just that- none- none of them ever joined the club. They're not barred from it though.2590.1776 
1953DCA_int_012592.4333If you could do your life over again, would you do anything different?2595.2590
1954DCA_se3_ag4_m_012595.5808Haha.2596.1310
1955DCA_int_012596.1578Now that you look back?2597.1603
1957 2599.3426Or would you2599.9581 
1959 2600.4897pursue a different career or anything?2602.4481 
1960DCA_se3_ag4_m_012605.4405Well,2605.8742
1962 2607.0772hard to say.2607.7953 
1964 2611.9954I set out2612.7415 
1966 2613.7346to be2614.4714 
1968 2615.3982a doctor of medicine.2616.4380 
1970 2617.9907That was my ambition.2618.9559 
1972 2621.0158But2621.2820 
1974 2622.3634the reason that I uh2623.6270 
1976 2624.3171went into the field of economics was that2626.1419 
1978 2628.6571there's a- well- there are a lot of question about2630.2145 
1980 2630.4477stopping2631.1285 
1982 2631.4595working and going to school.2632.5367 
1983DCA_int_012633.1385Mm.2633.4279
1984DCA_se3_ag4_m_012633.3935See when you go to medical school, you don't work. You just- just can't work.2636.4850
1985 2636.7788However, some fellas have done it,2638.1496
1987 2639.9344but uh2640.4660 
1989 2641.4615I don't know that I could have done it because2643.1052 
1991 2643.6554I was working four to twelve, you see, and I don't think2645.8691 
1993 2646.5033I could have2647.1141 
1995 2647.3535done that very well.2648.6016 
1996DCA_int_012648.8483I tried.2649.6692
1997DCA_se3_ag4_m_012649.5797/You know/ that's pretty rough. /You got to give it-/ you see there are only twenty four hours to a day.2652.6339
1998 2653.5281You gotta give eight hours to your work, that's that right there.2655.7150
2000 2655.9714And have so many hours of sleep in order to2657.4496 
2002 2657.8226study [effectively.]2658.7636 
2003DCA_int_012658.7319[Mm-hm.]2659.0626
2004DCA_se3_ag4_m_012660.3674And uh then you gotta attend school. Now when are you going to study?2662.9320
2005DCA_int_012663.1418Yeah.2663.4445
2006DCA_se3_ag4_m_012663.8195You see, that's the question of what you gonna do, /when/ you-2666.0317
2008 2666.3720and you'd2666.7870 
2010 2668.3818uh reduce a day2669.7340 
2012 2670.4847to its twenty four hours,2671.6353 
2014 2671.9431not more, you can't go twenty four and a half hours to a day. There's only twenty four hours to a day,2675.4496 
2016 2675.9718and only twenty four hours to a day, and you can't make it more than that.2678.3860 
2018 2678.9596And you gotta squeeze all that work in twenty four hours. Now w- how are you gonna do it?2682.3961 
2020 2683.1655But of course now, I was taking a course in economics,2685.9295 
2022 2686.1859and I had a professor2687.2397 
2024 2688.4707who impressed me very much,2690.6099 
2026 2692.2792and uh,2692.8993 
2028 2693.0812hanging between that2694.1350 
2030 2695.2203doubt as to how I would get to the medical school, he impressed me a whole lot.2698.2372 
2032 2699.3423That's how I went on into the field of economics,2701.1935 
2033DCA_int_012701.5467Yeah.2702.1109
2034DCA_se3_ag4_m_012702.5819and that's why I went.2703.4445
2035DCA_int_012707.1224Ah, what was it-2708.2461
2037 2708.5446what was your job like when you were still working? Or what would you do in a day's work?2712.6479 
2038DCA_se3_ag4_m_012715.8222You mean in- in the- when I left the fire dep- my last days in the fire de- what you mean? What days you [mean?]2720.1032
2039DCA_int_012719.8748[When] you were- when you were working at the fire department.2722.1424
2040 2722.4718/inaudible/2723.0140
2041DCA_se3_ag4_m_012723.5293Well,2723.9816
2043 2724.3174uh2724.7277 
2045 2725.4738my last day's work of course, I- when I was /promoted/ to Battalion Chief, um2729.5490 
2047 2730.8517<ts>2730.9531 
2049 2731.3675the old2731.9457 
2051 2732.2756ugly race picture came up again in that [situation], you see.2735.1420 
2052DCA_int_012734.2810[Mm.]2734.4533
2053DCA_se3_ag4_m_012735.3797And of course, um,2736.4163
2055 2737.1670because I got that promotion, it was- I had little trouble getting that promotion. As a matter of fact I had trouble getting2742.0386 
2057 2743.2043my promotion both to Captain and Battalion Chief.2745.8470 
2058DCA_int_012746.1268Hm.2746.3133
2059DCA_se3_ag4_m_012747.0734I had to uh2748.0619
2061 2749.4853<ts>2749.5613 
2063 2751.1429file suit in the U.S. District Court2753.0687 
2064DCA_int_012753.6469Oh boy.2754.1645
2065DCA_se3_ag4_m_012755.0224against the2755.5205
2067 2755.7210U.S.- DC fire department and the U- United States Civil Service Commission.2758.9430 
2068DCA_int_012760.2761/inaudible/ really took them on /??/?2762.0901
2069DCA_se3_ag4_m_012761.9261Yeah <laugh> to get pr- to- so I that could take2765.2181
2070 2765.9176they2766.0377
2072 2766.2941the uh2767.0588 
2074 2767.3106promotion2767.9681 
2076 2768.4717for Captain.2769.2457 
2078 2769.8924You see what they did,2771.0270 
2080 2771.4420the fire department2772.3186 
2082 2773.7023with its2774.4669 
2084 2775.0499uh2775.5302 
2086 2777.0036segregated policies, you see2778.4072 
2088 2779.7489adopted a2780.5148 
2090 2780.7235retroactive2781.6281 
2092 2781.8706ruling2782.3042 
2094 2782.9617into its2783.3813 
2096 2783.6833rules and regulations,2784.7464 
2098 2785.5018forbidding me2786.3691 
2100 2787.0499to take the /coalition/ examination for a Captain.2788.8171 
2102 2792.3240I say retr- retroactive because2794.7100 
2104 2795.6472I had to2796.6544 
2106 2798.0055complete a requirement2799.1479 
2108 2800.0105of five years2801.0503 
2110 2801.7824in the position as a Lieutenant,2802.9808 
2112 2803.7548which was three years more than the white2805.1619 
2114 2806.4628persons had to do,2807.2788 
2115DCA_int_012807.6099Hm.2807.7544
2116DCA_se3_ag4_m_012808.2953you see.2808.7803
2118 2809.7863I had to completed- completed the five years, and then they put this retroactive ruling in there.2814.5238 
2120 2815.3585My five years were up on May the2817.3983 
2122 2820.0428fifth, nineteen forty-five,2821.7121 
2124 2823.2917and they adopted this ruling2824.5320 
2126 2824.7278on July the twelfth.2825.6651 
2128 2826.3645That's where they put- that's when they put their foot in their own mouth, you see because2829.4432 
2130 2829.8675I completed the five years, and then they p- adopt this ruling, you see2832.6062 
2132 2833.3523and so I went in to s- District Court and filled suit. C- it cost me a lot of money,2837.0035 
2134 2837.5677but as a matter of principle there, you [see],2839.0167 
2135DCA_int_012838.8920[Mm.]2839.2697
2136DCA_se3_ag4_m_012839.3711and I beat 'em in court. And I took examination2841.4991
2138 2842.7750uh2843.1434 
2140 2843.3346eventually.2843.9874 
2142 2844.5935/Pass it out/.2845.0412