LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
3 1.5454were you born in DC?2.5739 
4DCB_se2_ag4_f_022.8299I was born in DC at Georgetown University Hospital.5.5632
7 6.3434woop woop.6.8716 
8DCB_se2_ag4_f_026.8917[Mm-hm.] <laugh>8.8125
10 8.9086Um,9.7090
12 9.8569what do you consider your neighborhood that you- what do you call home- your neighborhood that you call home?14.0102 
13DCB_se2_ag4_f_0214.8750In DC [the neighborhood] I call home is Deanwood.17.0280
15 17.0960Deanwood.17.6283
17 19.2009And have you lived here all your life?20.3809 
18DCB_se2_ag4_f_0221.1656I've n-21.7619
20 21.8780I've lived here the majority of my [life.]23.6028 
22 24.1229where are some other places you lived?25.4882
23DCB_se2_ag4_f_0225.5716I've lived in Richmond, Virginia.27.0683
24DCB_int_0128.3527How long?28.8194
25DCB_se2_ag4_f_0229.5613I lived there31.0620
27 31.5296five, six years.34.0231 
28DCB_int_0135.0596Anywhere else?35.6209
29DCB_se2_ag4_f_0235.8598That's it.36.1705
30DCB_int_0136.9842So yeah, the majority.37.8566
34 39.4814any other neighborhoods besides Deanwood?41.1582 
36 41.3381Have you moved around a lot?42.4866 
37DCB_se2_ag4_f_0243.0869Um, I grew up in Deanwood,44.3656
39DCB_se2_ag4_f_0244.8516in DC.45.5290
41 45.9121Um,46.5068 
43 47.3927after I came back to DC-49.5199 
45 49.9297um, the DC area, I lived in51.8906 
47 52.0746Riverdale,52.6786 
49 53.9635Bladensburg,54.8555 
53 58.7336and now Cheverly.59.6002 
56 63.3314And64.1917 
58 64.4558where'd you go to school?65.2641 
59DCB_se2_ag4_f_0266.1285High school or [college?]67.3330
60DCB_int_0167.1169[High] school and college.68.1974
61DCB_se2_ag4_f_0268.3454High school I attended St. Patrick's Academy70.6224
63 70.8906in Northwest DC.72.0711 
65 73.7518College I attended Virginia Commonwealth University.76.3170 
68 76.6650[VCU.]77.6534 
70 77.8374[<laugh>]78.3416
71DCB_int_0177.8774[Shaka Smart.]78.5934
73DCB_int_0178.6778[Loved him.]79.2701
74 79.6743But he- now he's in Texas.80.8788
76 81.5350Um, and what's your occupation?83.5265 
77DCB_se2_ag4_f_0284.1681My occupation is executive86.8813
79 87.0693assistant87.6573 
81 88.1178at Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Washington.90.0347 
82DCB_int_0192.6677And where was your father born?94.3124
83DCB_se2_ag4_f_0294.4325My father was born in Rich96.0292
85 96.2332Square96.7614 
87 97.0696North Carolina.97.8682 
90 100.1669Square?100.8472 
92DCB_int_01101.3273[And] w-101.6406
95 102.2037is [that near-]102.8704
96DCB_se2_ag4_f_02102.3158[it's about as] big as this room.103.8325
97 104.2765It is very North105.9053
99 105.9773and very East107.2338 
101 107.8541um, in the state.108.8034 
103 109.1587so it's about110.1631 
105 110.4151an110.5592 
107 110.6953hour from Emporia, Virginia.112.6162 
110 113.5685Okay so it's not- it's- yeah, yeah, yeah, you're at the top.116.2097 
112DCB_int_01116.3256[Kind of close] to the border, okay.117.7403
115DCB_se2_ag4_f_02119.2468My mother was born in Taylors, South Carolina.121.3598
116DCB_int_01121.6839Oh, okay.122.4799
118 123.0845They liketa be neighbors.124.1890 
120DCB_int_01126.2018Um, what did your dad do?127.3045
121DCB_se2_ag4_f_02128.5387My father129.9393
123 130.5636um,130.8397 
125 131.0118who's now retired,131.9385 
127 132.2844was133.2088 
129 133.3889a-134.0652 
131 135.1455a janitorial supervisor.136.6855 
134 139.6513at different places? Was it one company that he was142.1925 
136 142.3085for the most part?143.0379 
139 145.3018two major companies.146.1418 
141 146.2422One he worked for um,148.0911 
143 148.5391Architect of the Capitol.149.7417 
145DCB_se2_ag4_f_02151.0802So he was the s-152.1247
147 152.4489janitorial supervisor for the senate office- all the senate office buildings.156.1328 
149 156.7626And he retired157.8791 
151 157.9912as the158.8699 
153 160.6443um, janitorial supervisor and grounds163.8201 
155 164.0697keeper supervisor at Gallaudet University.166.3148 
158 170.0521I love them.170.7044 
160 170.8365I've- I've taken classes there, just did a presentation there not too long ago.174.1580 
162 174.9021Um, and what about Mom?176.2027 
163DCB_se2_ag4_f_02176.6229My mother uh, retired also, worked for department of the Army as181.2051
165 181.5451an insurance benefits examiner.183.2598 
168 188.0117Alright so that's all I'm gonna write, no more writing for me.190.2246 
170 191.4652Alright so let's kind of back up192.9539 
172DCB_int_01193.3181[And let's] like- like get into194.6661
173 195.3309so you were195.8671
175 196.1152Deanwood,196.8259 
177DCB_int_01197.1636[So what] do you remember-198.2689
178 198.6323First of all do you have siblings? Are you an only child?201.0254
179DCB_se2_ag4_f_02201.1813I'm an only child.201.8853
180DCB_int_01202.7889I did not know that, that's why I love doing this because205.3368
182 206.0552I've known /RD-NAME-2/ for three years,207.2758 
184 207.9361never heard her story.209.0246 
186 209.0966I've known you for- it's been what,210.4132 
187DCB_se2_ag4_f_02210.7333Almost a year?211.2253
188DCB_int_01210.8413n- almost a year? Yeah you kidding, ooh you [hitting that mark.]213.6666
190 213.7026[Mm-hm.]214.2069
191DCB_int_01213.9587[Feels] probably like214.7028
192 215.0950lots of years.215.8714
194 216.1675Amen.216.5435 
196 216.9119Um,217.7559 
198 218.0524but218.4926 
200 218.5965uh, so I love to get to know this. Okay so you're an only [child.]221.7300 
204 222.7638And you grew up-224.0444 
206 224.3070Did you live in a house, a townhouse, an apartment?227.2083 
207DCB_se2_ag4_f_02227.2843We lived in a single family house.228.6489
208DCB_int_01228.8209[Oh, okay.]229.4492
209DCB_se2_ag4_f_02228.9850[My parents] s- well my father still in the house, yeah.231.1058
212 231.8382[So you still-]232.3864 
214DCB_int_01232.5145do you go back to- oh, [obviously.]233.9638
215DCB_se2_ag4_f_02233.3388[I was in Deanwood] last night at his house.235.2878
216 235.6878[<laugh>]236.6162
217DCB_int_01235.6918[Perfect, okay so describe-] describe like your neighborhood, your house and what do you remember like the kids you used to play with.241.4541
220 242.8227tell me a little [bit about that.]244.0147
222 244.3314Well when I was growing up in the sixties and seventies, Deanwood247.4328
224 247.5528w-247.6369 
226 247.7329was more like249.1055 
228 249.3414the suburb of DC.250.7661 
230DCB_se2_ag4_f_02250.9101[A] suburb more so than inner city.253.1912
231 253.5832Um, actually where I grew up right on the border across from256.8087
233 256.9447Maryland.257.4033 
237 259.5739less than half a block away260.7263 
239 260.8383was Eastern Avenue,261.9949 
241 262.1429and then across Eastern Avenue was263.4956 
243 263.5834PG County.264.2437 
245 264.7199Um,265.0826 
247 265.6203so it was quiet.266.6768 
249 267.8493Uh, my street didn't even have s-269.3419 
251 269.5100sidewalks on it270.4424 
253 270.9346until after I moved away to college.272.8275 
255 273.5798So it was- it was very quiet s- uh,275.9609 
257 276.2207our block was nothing but single family homes.278.6218 
259 279.0700Um,279.6502 
261 279.7782our house was the last house282.0473 
263 282.6675in that block- on that street to be built.285.0526 
265 285.9289Um, so it was the newer one it was built-288.2379 
267 288.7260we moved in it when I was four.289.9874 
269 290.7949So and we still own the house still,292.4476 
271 292.5797our fam-292.9038 
273 293.0919the family house.293.8443 
275 294.4364And um,295.5369 
277 295.8329I just remember it just being really really quiet,298.1460 
279 298.6783there were not a lot of children.300.9713 
282 302.7994<ts>302.8369
284 302.8860maybe303.5953 
286 303.6803in our block there was only305.5328 
288 306.8217two other houses that had307.9142 
290 308.3703kids my age or around my age.310.2111 
292 310.7353And I was the youngest.311.5807 
293DCB_int_01312.3158Did you play with them?313.0118
296 314.9010<ts>314.9460 
298 315.1451the kids next door, no.316.4256 
300 316.9178They were317.8223 
302 317.9503um, a little older,319.1869 
304DCB_se2_ag4_f_02319.8472and um,320.8395
306 320.9476not considered a good influence for me.323.2166 
309DCB_int_01325.2174So what did you do to fill your327.0103
311 327.2221time like,328.1625 
313 328.2306you know?328.6066 
316 330.6797I was very studious.332.7327 
318 333.3367I was just talking with335.5457 
320 335.7058/RD-NAME-2/336.1460 
322 336.2500today,336.6983 
324 337.2185um, cause sh-337.7027 
326 337.8467we were talking about movies and TVs, when I was growing up I was not allowed to watch TV341.8293 
328 342.3686on342.9489 
330 343.4970weekdays or school days I could only watch TV on the weekends.346.3904 
332 346.7584I was not allowed to be on the phone past eight o'clock at night.349.4837 
334 350.1517So it was mostly351.0041 
336 351.1082reading, listening to music.352.8130 
337DCB_int_01353.7534So now,354.3015
339 354.3856the sixties so,355.4459 
341 355.8821TV was-356.9088 
342DCB_se2_ag4_f_02357.3228[Black and white?]357.8671
343DCB_int_01357.4869[it was-]357.8671
344 357.9591[Mm-hm.]358.4113
346DCB_int_01359.0476It- it was just getting it's360.6122
348 360.7843go.361.2485 
350DCB_int_01361.5767Um, do you remember like any-363.0974
351 363.6735What used to be your favorite TV show and like when you-366.5148
353 366.8068you guys got your n-367.8175 
355 368.0394color TV and like-369.4040 
357 369.8961[Do you remember] that?370.7845 
359 370.8486Mm-hm.371.1887
361 371.7929I do.372.1210 
363 372.4332I remember.373.0175 
365 373.3936Um, and I remember the time when we had both black and white and color TVs [cause], yeah.377.6235 
369 379.6643it was- like I said I wasn't allowed to watch TV during the week, only on the weekends or if I could sneak in384.6145 
371 384.9504like385.1184 
373 385.2145sit next to my father while he was doing something I would watch TV.388.3758 
375 388.8400But the TV shows that I remember390.7849 
377 391.2091um, are- I was just talking about this today- are like, Bewitched,394.8467 
381 396.6074I Dream of [Jeannie,]397.7118 
385 398.8123Brady Bunch which came later, Gilligan's Island,401.7577 
387 402.1977um, that kind of thing.402.9821 
389 403.4542The only thing that I was allowed to watch on my own406.3916 
391 406.5915was Roots when Roots came out because my father felt that was something educational and I needed to know about.411.0736 
393 411.5216Um,411.9017 
395 412.0098but other than that it was no TV for me.414.0547 
396DCB_int_01414.8911And then- So where'd you go to ele- elementary school? Were you in the neighborhood or did you go [outside the neighborhood?]419.0409
399 418.2438[I started-]418.7758 
401 418.8766[I] started off in the neighborhood, it was-420.3813 
402 420.5174um, the school was uh, /RD-school-2/ Elementary School,423.0385
404 423.1985which was in the neighborhood.424.1389 
406 424.6271I was there up until sixth grade and then I transferred to /RD-SCHOOL-5/,429.8631 
408 430.5536um,431.0539 
410 431.3380which is down on New York and New Jersey Avenue.433.3549 
412DCB_se2_ag4_f_02433.6068[And then] from there I went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/.435.2814
415 436.1920So,437.1044 
417 437.2885very much it seems Catholic school,440.0416 
420 440.9181type education?441.8274
422DCB_int_01442.3906Was that a-442.6948
424 442.9749that was- was that your choice? [Or]444.7754 
426DCB_int_01444.9357[your] parent's choice and why did-446.3603
427 446.4844do you know why they-447.1487
430 448.5292Um, it was not my choice it was their, we're not Catholic.450.9503 
432 451.4783Um,452.0437 
434 452.1386my parents wanted453.8114 
436 453.9115a better life and a better education for me456.0364 
438 456.2405than they had.456.9246 
440 457.6970And at the time, the m-459.1977 
442 459.8900we called it junior high school, they called it middle school, junior high school462.7152 
444 462.7952it [was-]463.1113 
445DCB_int_01462.9313[It was just] seventh and eighth grade at that point.464.5200
446 465.6604[Sixth grade was] still with the little people.467.0404
449 467.0289Right.467.4491 
453 468.3175at-468.4922 
455 468.5696during that time the- the junior high school in our neighborhood was471.8351 
457 471.9269notor- it was-472.6873 
459 472.9834had a really bad reputation.474.4961 
461 475.0284So um,476.0288 
463 476.4450they j-476.8852 
465 478.0136took me out of there and put me in the Catholic school for a better education and a better opportunity.481.9033 
466DCB_int_01482.5914So when- now483.4527
468 483.5558going back to your parents for a minute,485.1726 
472 487.2734were they- did they graduate from high school? Did they have the opportunity to do that or did they stop? Or did they- were they able to go to college?493.5843 
473DCB_se2_ag4_f_02494.1764They graduated from high school.495.7931
475DCB_se2_ag4_f_02496.2372Um, I was the first person in my family498.2061
477 498.2861on both sides to go to college499.7066 
479 499.9867in my family.500.7951 
480DCB_int_01500.9151And your501.2153
482 501.3233parents by the time they graduate- were they here for high school or did they move here later after like when they were grown?506.1735 
483DCB_se2_ag4_f_02506.3174My mother was here from high school,507.8541
487 509.2067my mother's parents died when she was eleven511.0707 
489 511.4956in South Carolina so512.6962 
491 512.8521her older sister who was twenty years older than her brought her to DC,516.2816 
492DCB_int_01516.2416That's [how she ended up here], okay.517.5302
493DCB_se2_ag4_f_02516.4258[and raised her.]517.2022
494 517.9664Um,518.3105
496 518.3986my father519.5991 
498 519.9992came here520.6915 
500 521.0237right after high school.522.0321 
502 522.6443Um, he had older brothers524.0850 
504 524.2689who had524.8492 
506 525.3134moved here,525.9694 
508DCB_se2_ag4_f_02526.2539[and so]526.6592
509 526.8101they brought him up here.527.8506
511DCB_se2_ag4_f_02528.7828[And then] my mother's529.9873
512 530.1074older sister531.0238
514 531.2039knew my father's family,532.5245 
515DCB_int_01532.6164[I was just gonna say how'd they meet, mm-hm.]534.2778
516DCB_se2_ag4_f_02532.6486[and then they got in-]533.5569
518 533.7810[and they got introduced that way.]535.2016 
521 536.4141So um,537.6421 
523 538.1028do you have other family in this area?539.7402 
526 542.4366I did.543.0169 
528 544.2493Um,545.0177 
530 545.1417I had an aunt.545.7684 
532 545.9261Well my parents are still here.546.9466 
534DCB_se2_ag4_f_02547.4908I had an aunt, the- the one that r- raised my mother.550.0799
536 550.3999She died about six years- six, seven years ago.552.7490 
538 553.7333Uh, my father's siblings all556.4586 
540 556.5466moved back to North Carolina.558.0813 
542 558.4153[Except for him.]559.1156 
543DCB_int_01558.4273[So it's just you] guys [here?]559.8759
547 560.6763are you s- guys still really tight?562.2450 
549DCB_int_01562.5731[Like your] family I know you have564.0417
550 564.5380um,564.9993
552 565.2462sons.565.8425 
554DCB_int_01566.1746[And] then your566.7869
555 566.9149parents- so you guys are still really really [close?]569.2440
557DCB_int_01569.5480Do you get together for like Sunday dinner,571.3528
559 571.5568football games, do y'all go out?573.6618 
561 573.9218Do y'all have any family traditions that y'all still-575.9391 
563 576.3189or that y'all are creating or trying to577.8696 
565 578.2317keep alive?578.9570 
568 581.3810not so much.582.0292 
570 582.0972I mean we do get together, there are things we will do as a family585.7949 
572 586.2429um, especially where my children are involved.588.6640 
576 590.2877<ts>590.3357 
578 590.5218typically Chri- the591.6933 
580 591.8454family tradition that we have is Christmas, Christmas is at my house.595.0347 
582 595.2828So everyone comes to my house for [Christmas.]597.6482 
583DCB_int_01597.0475[Because you have the] baby- [I mean they're not] really babies but-599.2966
584DCB_se2_ag4_f_02597.9880[Because I-]598.4133
585 599.3166Right,599.6487
587 599.7968[because-]600.3331 
588DCB_int_01599.8728[but you have] the youngest.600.9835
590DCB_int_01601.6415So it's still a big deal for-602.9301
591DCB_se2_ag4_f_02603.0702[Right it's an] all day Christmas thing in my house. [Yeah.]605.7472
592DCB_int_01603.1941[for them.]603.5863
594 605.5191[Gotcha], okay.606.4515 
596DCB_int_01606.8237[So let's go back] to high school608.0002
598DCB_int_01608.1282[because] I think that before I610.1730
599 610.2851jump to your family I kind of wanna talk a little bit more about-612.8021
601 612.9063about you.613.5225 
603 614.4068So tell me about615.2272 
605 616.1116what you remember.616.9280 
607 617.1719DC high school is a big deal. Where [you go to high] school, who you associate with,621.4178 
609DCB_int_01621.7219that kind of is a622.8024
611 622.9504big part of your identity.624.2990 
613 624.7271So625.3885 
615 625.5475going to Catholic school, was it a big school, small school, what was your favorite subject, who-629.5694 
617 629.7053who did you hang out with?630.8738 
618DCB_se2_ag4_f_02631.5660It was small.632.4785
620 632.6345My graduating class was sixty three.634.5434 
622 635.1636And it was all girls school so there were only sixty three in my graduating class and that was in nineteen eighty one.639.4773 
624 640.3057So um,641.5684 
626 641.9035<ts>641.9415 
628 642.0464I642.5746 
630 642.8188wasn't really part of the in-crowd.644.1835 
632 644.2633I was a dork, I was a geek.645.3748 
634 645.5969<laugh>647.0325 
635DCB_int_01647.0084Which are now the [coolest kids.]648.6132
638 648.1170[Which are- are] now the coolest kids you know I650.2259 
639 650.7142was651.4785
641 651.8105um,652.4732 
643 652.8990you know653.0911 
645 653.2152very thin654.2557 
647 654.7918and- and young, my birthday doesn't come until December so I was always the youngest658.6409 
649 658.7815in- in-659.3429 
651 659.4338in my class.660.2192 
653 660.6543Um,661.1025 
655 661.2545also662.0069 
657 662.2590which is very interesting, when I was growing up664.7160 
659 664.9001in- even in elementary school666.4448 
661 666.9408not so much in high school but more so in elementary school in the neighborhood school,670.3464 
663 671.0307um,671.4029 
665 671.8308my father's family673.0474 
667 673.8277as far as complexion wise starts off676.0448 
669 676.2089really light skin and then [as they]678.0576 
671DCB_se2_ag4_f_02678.2297grow older,679.2621
673 679.5663we get darker.680.4826 
675 680.8147So I was extremely light682.6636 
677 682.8237when I was a child.683.7121 
679 684.2242And684.8045 
681 684.8925very skinny.685.8169 
683 686.4371And687.1134 
685 687.1894um, so I was like an outcast because I was made fun of because I was the white girl at the school.691.7114 
686DCB_int_01692.4636[In a all black school.]693.5010
687DCB_se2_ag4_f_02692.4716[Because all the-]693.1960
688 693.5200In a all black school.694.4244
690 694.7246And so I- you know I had a lot of-696.8055 
692 697.2576of you know,698.2181 
694 698.5582harassment [<laugh>]700.1908 
696DCB_se2_ag4_f_02700.4990because of that, just because of the whole complexion color thing.703.3523
698 703.7764Um, it wasn't so much a big thing in706.1164 
700 706.2294um,706.6254 
702 707.0778high school because708.3663 
704 708.8105there- it was mixed, there [were]710.2831 
706DCB_se2_ag4_f_02710.4272all races711.8259
707 711.9998you know a mixture of diverse713.7598
709 713.9047people there,714.5930 
711 714.7970so.715.1316 
712DCB_int_01715.2651So going back do you real- like716.6377
714 716.7818do you- can you remember some moments where you felt that kind of ostracism like you felt like-721.5559 
715DCB_se2_ag4_f_02722.0681Oh it was every [day.]723.0121
716DCB_int_01722.5723[Like did you] know-723.5568
718DCB_int_01724.0209[You know cause at a point] kids like learn racism like at a point when they realize,728.5789
719 728.9230hey wait,729.5473
721 729.6954what?730.0996 
723 730.5715Something's happening.731.5240 
725 731.8762The- you know [they don't]732.6605 
727DCB_int_01732.9607come out necessarily like that but then they have that epiphany.735.8060
729 737.2624What-737.7426 
731 737.8867like738.1720 
733 738.2749tell me some things that would happen739.8309 
735 740.5078once you kind of realized this was happening to you.742.8529 
736DCB_se2_ag4_f_02743.1129Oh it was- it- it- you know it was nothing subtle about it, [cause kids ca-]746.1903
737DCB_int_01745.5820[Oh it was pretty- okay.]746.3864
738DCB_se2_ag4_f_02746.4783kids can be really747.5228
740 747.8469nasty748.4432 
742DCB_se2_ag4_f_02748.6753you know.748.9554
743 749.3835So it was nothing subtle about it, I was called the white girl751.3982
745 751.5924you know between the shape of my nose and my complexion and I had really long hair.755.4542 
747 755.8381And again my f-756.5888 
749 756.6985my father757.5429 
751 757.7030making su- My parents758.8075 
753 759.0996both grew up very poor.760.1436 
757 762.0489uh, my father763.2595 
759 764.0977made it765.3263 
761 765.7105his goal766.6147 
763 766.6908that we would do better.767.7673 
765 767.8793I would do better.768.6997 
767 769.0317You know um,769.8264 
769 769.9562so it w- from771.0927 
771 771.6049age eight I was getting perms and going to the b-773.8699 
773 774.1780sitting all day Saturday getting beauty sal- in the beauty salon.777.0273 
775 777.4513Had this long hair,778.6999 
777 778.7839long straight hair and like I said with my complexion, with781.0621 
779 781.1809the shape of my nose,782.2654 
781 782.7295you know kids would call me the white girl, kids would you know-785.0025 
783 785.0986I wouldn't get to play with the other kids because787.5106 
785 787.8317you know, they made fun of me.789.0603 
786DCB_int_01790.1246Do you ever feel like it was to your advantage like you-792.4976
788 792.7057Because793.1110 
790 793.5021I'm thinking about794.2101 
792 794.3385back to the sixties and seventies and796.4633 
794 796.5794this ch- city was-797.6318 
796 798.7563there was a lot of- like, that was during the Civil [Rights and then as we're]801.7336 
799 802.3658going through the Civil Rights do you ever feel like it was805.1470
801 806.3155<ts>806.3876 
803 806.4635hard beyond high school but then was it ever an advantage like you were able to do something because you looked a certain way?813.0944 
805DCB_int_01815.4873No you [never got-], okay.816.3717
807 816.3757No.816.8479
809 816.9480I think the opposite.817.9644 
812DCB_int_01819.8011Why do you say that?820.5134
813DCB_se2_ag4_f_02820.6574I think the opposite because822.5103
815 822.6463um,823.2226 
817 827.4923within my own race,828.8110 
818DCB_int_01828.9810Mm. [Mm-hm.]829.8334
820 830.7177being out- being light skinned was the outcast.833.3549
822 833.7070You know,834.1672 
824 834.3593it was- it was835.8480 
826 836.1920not being837.5566 
828 837.8808all in one race or the other.839.8095 
830 840.0457Even though840.6019 
832 841.3341obviously841.8904 
834 841.9824I'm black, I'm African American.843.3911 
836 843.9312But it was just m-844.7405 
838 844.8917uh, kids making a lot of fun of me and calling me white and making me you know just,849.7458 
840 850.8460we won't be bothered with you because you're not dark enough.852.9590 
842DCB_se2_ag4_f_02854.2516But then854.9838
844 855.2881um, I started working when I was sixteen.857.2290 
846DCB_se2_ag4_f_02858.3893And um, because of the school I went to,861.1706
848 861.5626you know861.8067 
850 861.9348my after school job863.1994 
852 863.4275was in the government.864.6641 
854 864.9800So I started of in the Department of Interior867.1089 
856 867.4171then I worked in the /RD-WORK-3/for a while.869.2179 
858 870.6064An- and I've noticed all-871.9871 
860 872.6914most-872.9114 
862 873.0034especially my young874.0000 
864 874.5161adult life875.4286 
866 875.7087that876.2860 
868 877.3773white people are more879.2062 
870 879.5501comfortable880.2264 
872 881.3189with881.7191 
874 882.0392darker skin black people.883.1646 
875DCB_int_01884.4803Why do you think that is?885.4487
876DCB_se2_ag4_f_02885.8529It's- I- y- you know,887.0294
878 887.8257I don't really-888.6461 
880 888.9662I can't really say.889.8466 
882DCB_se2_ag4_f_02890.2067But I mean if it- but it's- it's- it's-892.2916
883 892.8639it's just-893.3600
885 894.2004it's-894.6166 
887 896.0491With them it was a little more subtle.897.6539 
889 898.2660Um,898.8287 
891 899.1544but I saw900.3470 
893 901.3113you know901.5486 
895 901.8075promotions, saw raises, saw who was treated differently,905.3051 
897 905.6412who was treated um, a little more friendly.907.9901 
898DCB_int_01909.3508I have never heard that.910.5414
900 910.6352And I guess911.3756 
902 911.8758because usually I'm thinking913.2425 
904 914.6810if you're lighter915.7335 
906 915.8375[you're close- yeah.]917.2781 
907DCB_se2_ag4_f_02915.8495[You look m-]916.4177
909 917.0460[Well I] think that's the [problem.]918.2985 
910DCB_int_01917.8103[And that was-] it was-918.6147
911 918.7746[it was too close to] home, there was too much ambiguity?921.1573
912DCB_se2_ag4_f_02918.7907[Well maybe that it-]919.6230
913DCB_int_01922.1281And so now this is very clear this is923.9969
915 924.1569too nebulous for me right here [so I'm not sure what to do.]926.9369 
917DCB_int_01927.2023[Like] cause she ain't really white,928.6350
918 928.9270but is she really black? So do you feel like there was some of this kind of-931.7909
919DCB_se2_ag4_f_02931.8521It's like when you have a-932.6627
921 933.1127uh, well maybe I do- maybe I do think- have an opinion about it,936.1461 
923 936.5181um,936.9248 
925 937.0784that937.6146 
927 938.0988if you have a darker skin person939.6069 
929 939.9875you know, like you said you know this person941.9684 
931 942.3005i- is black, African American.943.9565 
933 944.1814Where you have one who's light skin, like I said I was a lot lighter946.7414 
935 947.0305in my- up until948.0870 
937 948.3071maybe about ten,949.1151 
939 949.3556fifteen years ago.950.2209 
941 950.5281Then there's that question of952.5249 
945 954.7378Maybe <laugh> you [know.]956.3506 
947DCB_se2_ag4_f_02956.7227You know.957.1321
949 957.3869So um-958.3193 
951 959.3237And what's funny is I had960.7283 
953 960.9925a girlfriend961.8609 
955 962.2530about twenty years ago963.5216 
957 964.2017who965.1061 
959 965.7424was mix-966.3371 
961 966.4667was- she was966.9070 
963 967.2431mixed races and968.3956 
965 968.7797who went through the same things, we could relate on the same things about how we felt we were treated by different people.973.5458 
967DCB_se2_ag4_f_02974.5302[Just] because of the way we looked.975.7902
968DCB_int_01976.0028And so now thinking [about-]977.3193
969DCB_se2_ag4_f_02977.1472[Did you] want all this? [<laugh>]979.2894
970DCB_int_01978.1997[I did, no this is great.]979.5683
971 979.6801This is great because you have to think [about]981.5935
974 983.0657We'll talk about [other stuff but-] but sometimes you kind of go off and that-985.9950
976DCB_int_01986.2149that's what makes it exciting, everybody's different cause everybody has different [experiences.]989.6045
978DCB_int_01990.1006And so991.0570
980 991.5573thinking about the city992.9746 
982 993.4501in nineteen sixties and seventies, especially996.3672 
984 996.6674now we're in the seventies when you're experiencing a lot of this and [we're-]999.8128 
986DCB_int_011000.2929you know we got the1001.2534
988 1001.3574I'm Black and I'm Proud and we got1003.2823 
990 1003.3982chocolate city but we [still have a lot of] racial tension.1006.4036 
993 1006.3675[Mm-hm.]1006.9478 
994DCB_int_011006.8477How do you feel like-1008.0041
995 1008.1842As a high schooler now cause you're very ware- aware,1010.7654
997 1011.0014the city you kind of explore you know you're not just at home you're1013.8907 
999 1013.9948in high school now you're working,1015.3714 
1001 1015.9195how do you think the city around you1018.0553 
1003 1018.6446um-1019.1779 
1005 1019.6490How do you feel like your experience was influenced by this? Like at- at work place, you could see that you were having these issues but as you were [navigating through] DC.1027.2147 
1007DCB_int_011027.6444um, maybe with your friends or church or whatever you were doing,1031.2580
1009 1031.5260do you feel like you had the- that same kind of,1033.5607 
1011 1034.2191uh, she- I'm not really sure if she's white or black let me stay away from her, do you feel like you were embraced?1038.5955 
1013DCB_int_011039.1212[Kind of-]1039.4013
1014DCB_se2_ag4_f_021039.8655I felt like I was1040.8620
1016 1041.1021always put off.1042.2026 
1019 1044.1234Yeah.1044.5047
1021 1044.9237I felt like I was always put off.1046.3283 
1024 1047.6649Like why- like and how like as you- not even just- let's take out1050.7462 
1026 1050.8421school from it but [let's look at the other]1052.6549 
1030 1054.1755c- because- b- well-1055.3622
1032 1056.3685Um,1056.8488 
1034 1058.2373by other women1059.6293 
1036 1060.0900[especially],1060.8344 
1037DCB_int_011060.4262[Mm. Mm-hm.]1061.1465
1038DCB_se2_ag4_f_021061.9307who were not1062.4921
1040 1062.6711you know,1063.0673 
1042 1063.8917extremely put off.1065.1402 
1044 1065.5963Um,1066.0525 
1046 1066.2726by men,1067.0970 
1048 1067.3811it was-1067.8854 
1050 1068.0815it was crazy because1069.7102 
1052 1070.4183we were still in that-1071.5850 
1054 1071.7629that era where1073.1796 
1056 1073.6918it was cool1074.5322 
1058 1074.8562for1075.3685 
1060 1075.6446a dark skin black man1076.9892 
1062 1077.1692to have a light skin wife.1078.5418 
1064 1078.7659And if you look at a lot of1080.6388 
1066 1081.1629um,1081.7696 
1068 1082.0633especially the college educated people from the six-1084.4963 
1070 1084.6204men from the sixties1085.8248 
1072 1085.9850and the seventies,1086.7770 
1074 1087.0334they have1087.5400 
1076 1088.3140light skin wives.1089.2580 
1078 1090.7190And so it was like that thing that was sought after.1093.4403 
1080 1094.0964But then on the other hand,1095.7170 
1082 1095.9651I faced1096.7131 
1084 1096.8175more1097.8469 
1086 1098.9144um,1099.3810 
1088 1102.0116just put off-ness or more just being pushed away or not being embraced1106.4136 
1090 1106.5454by other b- by1107.3618 
1092 1107.7060black women.1108.2820 
1094DCB_se2_ag4_f_021110.4392And it- and it- and it's crazy, it- it's crazy because1112.7642
1096 1113.1003I could care less.1114.3283 
1098DCB_se2_ag4_f_021115.5894But [then,]1116.9020
1099DCB_int_011116.4818[And w- were] most of these women dark skin [or darker skin?]1119.1228
1101 1119.1509Yeah.1119.4630
1103 1119.7472Yeah.1119.9513 
1104DCB_int_011120.8035But that was the [whole- that was] during the time of the paper bag test, that was during the time-1125.2054
1106DCB_int_011125.4335So [all of those] things- so I think in-1127.0342
1108DCB_int_011127.1782ma- ha- maybe there's a sense of envy or jealousy because you were light skin? Do you think that may have played into it?1132.9528
1110DCB_int_011133.2218Or maybe they just was being bitchy and they just didn't [wanna-]1135.6378
1111DCB_se2_ag4_f_021135.2536[It could] be both.1136.1860
1112DCB_int_011136.7423and they didn't wanna talk [to you.]1137.9396
1113DCB_se2_ag4_f_021137.6467[It could] be both.1138.6134
1116 1140.2837<ts>1140.3437 
1118 1140.4237Okay [so you were in high-] so- But you didn't feel this at school this was kind of more outside of the walls /of [your s-/ because your school's] a very diverse [place.]1146.9987 
1121 1145.2258[Right.]1145.7661 
1123 1146.6904[School] was very diverse it was nothing1148.3272 
1124 1148.4752but girls.1149.2179
1126 1149.4474[It was a all] girl school and it was very1150.8401 
1128DCB_se2_ag4_f_021150.9641diverse you know there white, there were black, there were Latinos,1153.6134
1130 1154.0255um,1154.4377 
1132 1154.5136everybody was there.1155.3941 
1133DCB_int_011155.3500But it didn't feel catty?1156.3025
1134 1156.5865Like it wasn't just1157.3265
1136 1157.4309girl fights all the time, it was- it was not-1158.7715 
1138DCB_int_011159.0476[Was] it really cohesive?1160.1716
1139DCB_se2_ag4_f_021160.8163It was- it-1161.6127
1141 1162.5491it wasn't-1163.8591 
1143 1165.1901I'm not gonna say it was catty it was just1167.1990 
1145 1167.5872different1168.0264 
1147 1168.1275groups of-1168.9598 
1149 1169.0319of girls.1169.6642 
1151DCB_se2_ag4_f_021169.7881[You had] the girls who were1172.3093
1152 1172.9933uh,1173.5416
1154 1174.5701you know1174.9783 
1156 1175.0983I'm not gonna say they were bullies but they were1177.0272 
1158DCB_se2_ag4_f_021177.2153you know more masculine who were rough and1180.1045
1159 1180.3645that definitely wasn't me.1181.4690
1161 1181.8852And you know1182.5645 
1163 1182.6546I was1183.1576 
1165 1183.3099very smart because my father made sure I was smart [<laugh>] you know.1187.5317 
1167DCB_se2_ag4_f_021187.8076So um,1188.7520
1169 1189.0482you know I- I hung around those people.1191.0891 
1171 1191.3651You know.1191.6252 
1173 1191.8773And then you had the ones that were just-1193.9982 
1175 1195.3908just out doing things that they shouldn't have been doing1197.7279 
1177 1198.0840also.1198.5762 
1179 1199.0564So yeah I was the l- it was in a little geek squad.1201.0333 
1180DCB_int_011201.2573[You were]1201.5414
1182DCB_int_011201.6895[the little geek squad?]1202.4899
1184DCB_int_011202.7420[Do you-] do you- did you have a best friend in high school?1205.0460
1185DCB_se2_ag4_f_021205.1229There were five of us.1206.3114
1186DCB_int_011206.3714Oh tell me about y'all's little1207.4759
1187DCB_se2_ag4_f_021207.6990<ts> [there were fi-]1208.5816
1189DCB_se2_ag4_f_021208.6636there- there were just five of us and-1209.9470
1191 1210.0318and there was nothing really1211.4534 
1193 1212.3660special about us it was just1214.2107 
1195 1214.7589five- it was like maybe one or two-1216.6403 
1197 1216.9880one I knew before I got there.1218.4487 
1199DCB_se2_ag4_f_021219.5650So we-1220.1613
1201 1220.2374we- you know [we were /then-/]1221.3987 
1202DCB_int_011220.8095[How'd you know her?]1221.4178
1203DCB_se2_ag4_f_021221.8540I met her at1223.6228
1205 1223.9788a summer camp that I had been [to]1225.7757 
1207DCB_se2_ag4_f_021225.9277in Virginia in the mountains.1227.4645
1209 1228.0486And uh,1228.7648 
1211 1228.9009so we ended up at the same high school together so we instantly1232.0103 
1213 1232.2704clicked1232.5705 
1215 1232.6745because we already [knew each other.]1233.9838 
1217DCB_se2_ag4_f_021234.3153And then I think maybe I met one or two others or she met- and so the f-1238.1489
1219 1238.3129the five of us would be really f-1239.5694 
1221 1239.7655close [friends.]1240.5619 
1222DCB_int_011240.3658[Do you] remember doing a lot of things with them together as a group? Or1243.6761
1223DCB_se2_ag4_f_021243.9272[Just] during school.1244.9939
1224DCB_int_011243.9352[did y'all-]1244.2033
1225 1245.1517Just hanging out [at school.]1246.1637
1226DCB_se2_ag4_f_021245.7840[Yeah] just during school because1247.5528
1227 1247.6408again,1248.0808
1229 1248.1651I lived in Deanwood,1249.1695 
1231 1249.3696school was downtown.1250.4181 
1233 1251.0421Cause [school was] at- /RD-SCHOOL-3/ was at Ninth and G.1253.7514 
1235 1254.2596[Okay.]1254.5998
1236DCB_se2_ag4_f_021254.5276[So] all of us had to catch the Metro bus to school.1257.4570
1237 1257.9011Um, and also while I was in high school is when1260.5263
1239 1260.6462Metrorail opened up.1261.7547 
1241DCB_se2_ag4_f_021262.4911So um-1263.3875
1243 1263.7635<ts>1263.8436 
1245 1264.0197so it was like we caught the subway and the bus to school so we all lived in different areas.1268.3056 
1246DCB_int_011268.5575Gotcha okay [so it wasn't] like y'all just [hung out around] town doing [stuff?]1272.4593
1249 1270.5584[Hung out at-]1271.2708 
1251 1272.1512[No] you know after school we- since we were downtown we would hang out1275.1524 
1252 1275.5045some there I remember we used to go to Kemp Mill Records all the time1278.1137
1254 1278.4859cause it was right up the street.1279.5463 
1256 1280.0703Um, it was a record store.1281.0028 
1258 1281.3069<ts> And they always played music there.1283.4159 
1260 1283.5519So we'd go in there for a few minutes or we'd go to- it was- used to be called1287.1895 
1262 1287.4855People's Drug Store.1288.3499 
1264DCB_se2_ag4_f_021288.5580[Now] it's [CVS it was] People- we'd /whole/ hang at the drug store.1291.2700
1266DCB_se2_ag4_f_021291.6473Um, so it would be1292.3757
1268 1292.5277things like that, in the morning we might go to the waffle house cause it was1295.0128 
1270 1295.1248couple of waffle houses down there and get french fries.1297.9620 
1271DCB_int_011298.7823For [breakfast?]1299.4786
1272DCB_se2_ag4_f_021299.1624[For breakfast.] <laugh>1301.0753
1273DCB_int_011301.3394Did [your] dad let you do a lot of like1303.0082
1275DCB_int_011303.3521going out1304.0468
1277 1304.1401and hanging out with your friends outside of just1306.0734 
1279 1306.1894like right after school like,1307.3020 
1281DCB_int_011307.5660[it's a] Saturday, can I go hang out with my friends?1309.5109
1282DCB_se2_ag4_f_021309.8830I had to be-1311.6478
1284 1313.1763it had to be known where I was going,1315.2256 
1286 1315.4212when I'd be back,1316.5698 
1288 1316.6488when- it was very controlled.1318.2185 
1290DCB_se2_ag4_f_021318.5427It was very controlled, yeah.1320.2515
1291DCB_int_011320.3953Did you ever have one of those just1321.6999
1293 1321.7879wild child moments like I'm'a just1323.4532 
1295 1324.0130buck the system because I'm'a just1325.5617 
1297 1325.7696be a kid and I'm'a do what I wanna do?1327.4543 
1298DCB_se2_ag4_f_021328.0306Not so much.1328.9070
1300 1329.1871I had maybe a couple but not really wild.1331.5402 
1301DCB_int_011332.0883Gimme what do you feel like was [your kind] of rebellious-1335.0816
1303DCB_int_011335.1576like what did you do in high school that you were like, ooh,1337.8067
1305 1337.9108if my parents only knew. I mean back then it was a big deal, now [it probably] don't even matter but-1342.2727 
1307 1342.3247Right.1342.5820
1309 1342.9008Like uh, if my parents knew-1344.7537 
1311 1345.7780So our- our um,1347.0426 
1313 1347.3148brother school1348.0601 
1315 1350.7762was uh- we considered our brother school Gonzaga even [though it] wasn't.1354.2217 
1317DCB_se2_ag4_f_021354.5377Notre Dame was there but we would1355.9755
1319 1356.0675like steal their guys. [<laugh>]1358.4841 
1320DCB_int_011358.2800[And they] went with it.1358.9443
1321DCB_se2_ag4_f_021358.9203You know.1359.5496
1322 1359.8319So we would um,1360.7919
1324 1361.0965/I- and I would-/ I did a lot of after school activities like drama club and- and in the [choir and that kind of stuff.]1366.2908 
1325DCB_int_011365.2503[That doesn't surprise me.]1366.2636
1326DCB_se2_ag4_f_021366.8549And um,1367.7029
1328 1368.1794s- and it was a way not to go home1369.6161 
1330DCB_se2_ag4_f_021369.8682[before] I started working.1370.9047
1332DCB_se2_ag4_f_021371.5168And so um, there was this drama club that I was in after school and then the guys from1377.0913
1334 1377.4912Gonzaga would-1378.3076 
1336 1378.5998would come over1379.3931 
1338 1379.6442to-1380.0764 
1340 1380.2885Like we did a-1380.8112 
1342 1381.0209a production of1382.4335 
1344 1383.0776um,1383.5978 
1346 1383.7739<ts> West Side Story.1384.6543 
1350 1386.3390and yes I was Maria.1387.3995 
1352DCB_se2_ag4_f_021388.0077Of course. <laugh>1389.8006
1354 1390.1847[/unintelligible/]1391.3053 
1355DCB_int_011390.2166[I'm not surprised.]1391.2571
1356 1391.5252[I'm not surprised.]1392.4386
1357DCB_se2_ag4_f_021391.5733[And so then we know that]1392.5199
1358 1392.6938to- f- for the guy roles we'd have guys from Gonzaga come in or whatever.1395.8791
1360 1396.2313And so it would be cool1397.5433 
1362 1397.7199you know1398.0560 
1364 1398.2601my fa- if my parents only knew I'm riding the subway with these boys,1402.1458 
1366 1402.5459just riding1403.3102 
1368 1403.7783to one-1404.3185 
1370 1404.4426to the end of the line, coming back.1405.9073 
1372 1406.1514Cause back then it was only two lines.1407.9794 
1374 1408.2204It was the red line,1409.2168 
1376 1409.5368<ts> and then there was the1410.5675 
1378 1410.8534orange1411.6058 
1380 1411.7057slash blue [line.]1412.7782 
1381DCB_int_011412.3540[Bl- mm-hm.]1413.0143
1382DCB_se2_ag4_f_021413.1584And I would just ride the orange line back and forth, back and forth just hanging out with boys.1417.3011
1384 1417.8043You know, my father would have a fit if he knew that. [<laugh>]1421.3338 
1385DCB_int_011421.1097[And see-]1421.4739
1386 1421.5459and see but that and-1422.7024
1388 1422.8222and it's so funny like1423.8707 
1390 1423.9788c- because you're like the girls who kind of did their-1426.5960 
1392 1427.3202the whatever they were doing the way out stuff, and then hearing like1430.5669 
1394 1430.8817you know, I was riding up and down with the boys, like,1433.1656 
1396 1433.6189you know it's so funny how our /perceptin-/ our perception of what's like1437.2926 
1398 1437.5326being the [bad girl-]1438.7971 
1401 1438.3249[Exactly] it's totally different.1440.1338 
1404DCB_int_011440.5859[Because] now,1441.5703
1405 1441.8384you know, I heard of something on the radio this morning I1443.8873
1407 1444.0473could've1444.4540 
1409 1444.7076died, like this1445.8001 
1411 1446.1321boy's talking about how he's gonna have sex with his girl for the first time.1449.3655 
1413 1449.7057I was like, w-1450.3660 
1415 1450.4460this is why we have-1451.8546 
1417 1452.1147I emailed /RD-NAME-3/ I said,1453.2272 
1419 1453.5354this is why /RD-NAME-2/ is so important.1454.9559 
1421DCB_int_011455.6362Because we have stuff like this playing on the radio.1457.6291
1423DCB_int_011458.6253Those were the [days.]1459.5053
1425DCB_int_011459.5858[And I wasn't] born,1460.4942
1426 1460.7103but1461.0104
1428 1461.5147hearing stories I- I1463.0514 
1430 1463.3474know that those were the days.1464.6040 
1432 1465.1122For me being rebellious was1467.1490
1434 1467.4652I had a little boom box-1468.8759 
1436 1469.8222you know I had a little boom box, playing it on the metro bus.1472.5555 
1438 1472.9475And that was like taboo back then, you just didn't do that.1475.4326 
1440DCB_se2_ag4_f_021475.7605[You know] and for me-1476.8170
1441 1477.1812for me it was-1478.1176
1443 1478.2377it was rebellious for me one, s- I'm sitting in the back of the bus,1481.1709 
1445 1481.3190which1481.6832 
1447 1482.0673wasn't1482.5447 
1449 1482.6636where I was supposed to be.1484.0482 
1452 1484.7157And then I'm- I'm blasting music.1486.5852
1454 1486.7531You know, and it was just like, yeah that's me I'm blasting music back here, I'm cool.1490.9351 
1456 1491.5872And I wasn't, but now that's nothing.1493.6322 
1458DCB_se2_ag4_f_021494.1363But back then you could get- you would-1495.4609
1460 1495.5409you would get put off the bus1497.3858 
1462 1498.0860for something like that.1498.8303 
1463DCB_int_011499.5386And see now we don't.1500.4679
1465DCB_int_011501.3074So think about- I want you to kind of- let's um-1503.4964
1467 1505.4851So you graduated.1506.4584 
1471 1508.2944And1509.3667 
1473 1509.5348you said goodbye to all your little friends, or maybe not.1512.1440 
1475 1512.3159Do you still keep in contact with them?1513.4625 
1478DCB_se2_ag4_f_021514.7530[Not] r- not [so much.]1515.7170
1479DCB_int_011515.2612[Oh yeah /you said/] goodbye.1516.1176
1480 1516.4737So how did you-1517.2900
1482 1517.3901From high school did you go straight to1518.9988 
1484 1519.1149uh, [college?]1519.8232 
1486DCB_int_011520.2713And so what was that like when you left, right? Because you had been-1523.5646
1487DCB_se2_ag4_f_021523.7728Oh I w-1524.3651
1489 1524.4531I went wild.1525.1694 
1491 1525.4815I went wild I was seventeen,1526.9942 
1493 1527.5144I came from this very protective home,1529.5371 
1495 1530.0273um,1530.3154 
1497 1530.3835you know I came from a home where I had stuff and you know when I was sixteen I got my license I had1535.3135 
1499 1535.4696open access to a car but I still had to be home1538.3829 
1501DCB_se2_ag4_f_021538.7231[at] a certain [time, I still /had-/]1540.4519
1502DCB_int_011539.2433[It was open as much as it] was1540.8359
1503DCB_se2_ag4_f_021541.2761[Y- yeah.]1542.0365
1507 1542.9909So,1543.4816 
1509 1543.7303here I am,1544.3586 
1511 1544.6147seventeen,1545.4240 
1513 1548.0951without my parents.1549.1674 
1515 1550.4320in down- /when/ the city of Richmond.1552.1766 
1517 1554.3656They put me in a dorm room1555.7702 
1519 1556.0584and they put me in a triple.1557.2229 
1521 1557.4469Now dorm rooms are nothing like they were back then it was-1559.9080 
1523 1560.0361it was like1561.0726 
1525 1561.4725a room,1562.0568 
1527 1562.1488you had a roommate and then there was a centralized bathroom.1564.9021 
1529 1565.3383Well they put me,1566.2107 
1531 1566.4068an only child1567.2671 
1533 1567.7033in a triple.1568.2835 
1535 1568.7116[<laugh>]1573.1276 
1538 1572.0852[Mm-hm.]1572.7905 
1539DCB_se2_ag4_f_021573.5097One of my roommates smoked weed all the time,1575.9227
1541 1576.8591the other one drank all the time. [<laugh> Here's me.] <laugh>1582.3294 
1542DCB_int_011579.5041[And here's goody goody two shoes in the middle.]1581.2001
1544 1582.0453[Okay, so-]1582.9377 
1548 1584.6384[Which one] did you decide to- did you decide to go either of those routes?1587.4717 
1550 1587.6807W- and here's funny,1588.7311
1552 1589.0363I um-1589.5696 
1554 1590.2807um,1590.7890 
1556 1590.8610I ended up being better friends with1592.8099 
1558 1592.8938I-1593.0059 
1560 1593.1659one-1593.5941 
1562 1593.7222one girl from Hampton, she w-1595.1028 
1564 1595.2669the black girl1595.8392 
1566 1595.9431that was smoking weed all the time, the other one was white1598.2082 
1568 1598.4722she was from Poughkeepsie, New York.1599.9327 
1572 1602.6059I think that1603.6499 
1574 1604.0905um, the one from Hampton was-1605.7993 
1576 1605.9114got depressed because she was away from home and you know she [just] spent her time1610.2372 
1578DCB_se2_ag4_f_021610.3331sitting on her bed looking out the window getting high.1612.4980
1580 1613.6426And so she- she wasn't really interacting with us a lot, she would but1617.3922 
1582 1617.9123it was always me and the other one going some place and1620.2574 
1584 1620.4535[and you know] hanging out and we had a couple classes together and it was just yeah.1624.5231 
1586DCB_se2_ag4_f_021624.8232So she and I1625.6076
1588 1626.1597the other girl from New York1627.1162 
1590 1627.4924we [hung out a lot.]1628.2990 
1591DCB_int_011627.6164[Y'all got close? Mm-hm.]1628.8977
1593DCB_int_011629.7173And so what else did you-1631.3740
1595 1631.7341/?/1632.0742 
1597 1632.1863Okay that was your freshman year, went [crazy.]1634.2152 
1599 1634.6033I did, I went crazy.1635.8606
1601 1636.2520Um, I got introduced to the world of sororities and fraternities.1639.3894 
1602DCB_int_011639.3373Mm-hm, that's what I was just about to [ask.]1640.9300
1603DCB_se2_ag4_f_021640.8419[So] I became a Sigma Dove1643.0828
1605DCB_se2_ag4_f_021643.3229[as a] freshman.1644.0993
1606 1644.4675I did a-1644.8568
1608 1645.0958I'm-1645.3359 
1610 1645.7641One thing that I've done constantly-1647.7730 
1612 1648.1449consistently in my life1649.5776 
1614 1649.7137is1650.1456 
1616 1650.4420I'm the first to do a lot of [things.]1652.4829 
1620 1653.8674being1654.5918 
1622 1654.9158um,1655.2880 
1624 1655.4281a Sigma Dove the sweethearts of the Sigma,1657.1809 
1626 1657.5410freshman didn't do that.1658.4655 
1628 1659.3938I was a freshman1660.1871 
1630 1660.4301and I did it.1660.9624 
1632 1661.2945You know even in my1662.6111 
1634 1662.7992career, in my job, I've been the first to do a lot of things.1665.9726 
1636 1666.3246So um, so I1667.6172 
1638 1667.7252became a Sigma Dove, was hanging out with the Sigmas ,1670.2424 
1640 1670.6665and uh,1671.6708 
1642 1671.7462going to all the parties and just having a good time.1674.8562 
1644 1675.8006My f-1676.5930 
1646 1677.0532first-1677.6732 
1648 1678.0175<laugh>1678.7058 
1650 1679.1901my first1680.2826 
1652 1680.3826um,1680.9933 
1654 1682.0913<ts>1682.1713 
1656 1682.4835semester-1683.3399 
1658 1684.3442Now we coming from somebody who in high school in Catholic school made straight A's.1688.1420 
1660DCB_se2_ag4_f_021688.9981My grades1690.4061
1662 1690.6469my first semester,1691.8154 
1664 1692.1476two B's, two D's, two F's.1694.0563 
1667DCB_int_011695.4328[How was] Daddy?1696.1212
1670 1697.6419He was actually very calm about it.1699.8549 
1672DCB_se2_ag4_f_021700.3950[Very] calm about it.1701.7764
1673 1702.1636Um, he had a talk with me1704.0525
1675 1704.6247and um, and- and my father's not a calm person1707.9701 
1677 1708.1862or rational person, there were a couple of things he was- he would be calm or rational about,1712.2934 
1679 1713.0364but um, he just1714.0408 
1681 1714.8451brought the grades into my room,1716.1777 
1683 1717.0220and said1717.5142 
1685 1717.6703you know, it's costing us a lot of money1719.0629 
1687 1719.3149to send you to school.1720.0576 
1689DCB_se2_ag4_f_021720.7076And I expect better.1721.7160
1691 1722.5523I said,1722.8523 
1693 1723.0084okay.1723.3510 
1695 1723.8408And so I did better.1724.6674 
1697 1724.9813Because I knew <laugh>1726.4820 
1699DCB_se2_ag4_f_021726.7701I had to [do better.]1727.8666
1701 1728.1785[Otherwise you weren't gonna be there.]1729.3252
1702DCB_se2_ag4_f_021728.3506[But it was just like-]1729.3431
1703 1729.4751Right it was- or you know-1730.9478
1705 1731.0478/?/1731.1559 
1707 1731.2559or the other thing me- I had to come back [home if I] didn't, I couldn't come back home.1734.4226 
1709DCB_se2_ag4_f_021735.0576So um, yeah so that was pretty funny.1736.9945
1711 1737.1944That- And I straightened up and did better.1738.9931 
1713 1739.1313But it was like seventeen,1740.6127 
1715 1741.0120in a new city,1741.8844 
1717 1742.1805by myself,1743.1329 
1719 1743.4491unsupervised,1744.4175 
1721 1744.7457I was all over the place.1745.8382 
1723 1746.1462[<laugh>]1748.0431 
1724DCB_int_011747.4508[What do you feel like] was your1748.6615
1725 1749.0433um-1749.5716
1727 1749.9277So okay that wa- Wait, your freshman year you were Sigma Dove and [then]1752.9353 
1729DCB_int_011753.0372[when'd you become-]1753.9696
1730DCB_se2_ag4_f_021754.0614A Zeta?1754.5376
1732DCB_se2_ag4_f_021755.0939In my junior year.1755.8102
1735DCB_int_011756.9387Um, so1757.9432
1737 1758.2513how was like your sophomore year? Was it shaped by kind of your experience with the-1761.8369 
1739 1762.2050with the Sigmas [or was it-]1763.2010 
1740DCB_se2_ag4_f_021762.7493[It was.]1763.4016
1741DCB_int_011763.4375was it still different? Were you s-1764.8741
1743 1765.1863finding something else?1766.5629 
1745 1767.1511Like1767.3591 
1747DCB_int_011767.4952[other] activities or was that your pretty much [your main-]1769.9161
1748DCB_se2_ag4_f_021769.3640[That was it.]1770.1053
1749 1770.4645That was it.1771.0365
1751 1771.2807Yeah.1771.5929 
1753 1772.0251Yeah I couldn't- my parents did not want me to work, they wanted me to focus on school1775.3785 
1755 1775.5506because you know I was like I said the first person in my s- in my family to go to college so I had to do well.1779.8365 
1757DCB_se2_ag4_f_021780.7888And my father was paying for it so I had to do well.1782.8368
1759 1783.7499So um,1784.6663 
1761 1784.7374all in1785.1515 
1763 1785.2276the activities I did they were with the D- with the Doves.1787.6546 
1765 1787.7676I was a Sigma Dove and I did1789.1643 
1767 1789.4324pretty much everything with them.1790.4809 
1768DCB_int_011791.3892And so then you became1793.1340
1770 1793.2699a Zeta. Were- [how- were your] parents excited about that or1795.9672 
1772DCB_int_011796.1873did they not really understand it? W- How was that1798.4841
1773DCB_se2_ag4_f_021798.7242[My father] understood it more than my mother because by then my father was at Gallaudet.1802.8501
1774DCB_int_011798.8123[kind of telling-]1799.4722
1775 1803.1982Okay [so he was in] the college life, [or]1805.2870
1778 1805.0029[Ri- s- right.]1806.4555 
1779DCB_int_011805.3710[seeing college around] him.1806.6076
1780DCB_se2_ag4_f_021806.7597So when I1807.9202
1782 1808.1482was allowed to come home because you had to ask to come home when you were pledging, cause pledging back then was a lot different than it is now.1814.2629 
1784 1814.6830Um, but I was allowed to come home for Thanksgiving1816.8040 
1786 1817.1040and um, for a couple of days then I had to go back,1819.5026 
1788 1819.9692but back then1820.8856 
1790 1820.9736you know,1821.3056 
1792 1821.4659we all wore trenchcoats with our little1823.3587 
1794 1823.8388emblem on our jacket and a certain hat and a certain way we had to dress and so when I came home1828.7609 
1796 1829.3131and1829.8134 
1798 1830.0854I was given an assignment,1831.3760 
1800 1831.6941cause I was on line1832.6426 
1802 1832.7586when I came home,1833.3829 
1804 1833.5468[that's what- that's what it was, I was] on line when I came home,1835.7589 
1805DCB_int_011833.5629[Mm. Mm-hm.]1834.6233
1806DCB_se2_ag4_f_021836.2641and um,1836.9643
1808 1837.1164they gave me an assignment I had to go to- to the Zeta headquarters and so I had to-1840.6260 
1810 1840.9379to dress like a Archonian and-1842.4289 
1812 1843.5614and um,1844.3058 
1814 1844.5995and go there, and when I was walking out the door1846.7565 
1816 1847.0685my mother's like, why are you dressed like that? My father's like, I've seen them dressed like that at work, when he's at work.1852.9711 
1818 1853.3113So um,1854.1086 
1820 1854.2436yeah.1854.5277 
1822 1854.6678It wa- they were cool, they were-1856.2164 
1824 1856.4525they didn't have any problems putting up the funds for it or whatever I needed to do it because that meant that-1861.3988 
1826 1862.0948They saw that as1862.8548 
1828 1863.2834being-1863.5875 
1830 1863.7836me being more successful.1865.0802 
1832 1866.0525[/For them/]1866.4767 
1833DCB_int_011866.1646[Mm, so for] them- That's so interesting because a lot of parent-1868.6858
1835DCB_int_011868.7857You know,1869.1739
1837 1869.4740if you're not really1870.3064 
1839 1870.4303into kind of the Greek system and Greek life,1873.6438 
1841DCB_int_011874.1799[it's like] what is all- th- it's just a social thing it's [doesn't- th-] not even thinking kind of /of this/ big picture.1879.0900
1844 1879.0821Right.1879.3502 
1846DCB_se2_ag4_f_021879.8543[Because and then] I sat down and said,1881.0823
1847 1881.3830you know, these are the things that Zeta Phi Beta um,1885.2486
1849 1885.6367you know focuses on1887.0014 
1851 1887.3575and these are their community service projects,1890.3468 
1853 1890.7349these are the different [countries that they are in] just showing them things and they were l- yeah, they were really really cool with it.1896.3972 
1854DCB_int_011891.6673[So you were selling it, mm-hm.]1893.3300
1855 1896.6734Okay so then [after you-] that was your junior year,1899.5293
1857 1899.5706[Uh-huh.]1899.9107
1858DCB_int_011899.7907so how did that shape-1900.9693
1859 1901.6836That was fall,1902.3399
1861 1902.7199so spring and then your full senior year, how did [that shape your] experiences1906.6857 
1863DCB_int_011907.0018and then kind of overall looking at college like-1909.7831
1864DCB_se2_ag4_f_021910.2150Right so then after1911.6597
1866 1912.2560I think-1912.7522 
1868 1913.0003a-1913.1083 
1870 1913.2284the- another thing I did, I was the first neophyte1915.8175 
1872 1916.0176at our school to then become dean of the next line.1918.7761 
1874 1919.9471So1920.3393 
1876 1920.7195um, you know and then it was a time we weren't even gonna have a line1924.0035 
1878 1924.3571um, because we decided late and w- and we didn't have enough time to do it but1928.6629 
1880 1929.0190you know I showed them how we could do it and how I moved these girls and got these girls on line, got all the paperwork we needed they didn't think1934.9856 
1882 1935.1256that we could get,1935.8579 
1884 1936.1340and then I became dean of that line.1937.7114 
1886 1938.3389So it- which was really-1939.6355 
1888 1940.2317you know,1940.5598 
1890 1940.8720i- it gave me-1942.0285 
1892 1942.4367it gave me respect because it's something else I had done an-1945.5660 
1894 1945.6940and um,1946.6824 
1896 1947.1666it's something they didn't think1948.3792 
1898 1948.5513[could be-]1948.8274 
1899DCB_int_011948.6913[Could] be done?1949.2876
1901 1950.1399And um- and it was interesting cause w- while I was on line and then when I became dean of the next line I spent a lot of time over at Virginia Union.1957.3249
1903 1957.9630Cause they- cause1958.6833 
1905 1958.9835at Vi-1959.3076 
1907 1959.6238Virginia Union,1960.4081 
1909 1960.5322as in HBCU had-1962.0169 
1911 1962.4731all the1963.0198 
1913 1964.1417sororities and fraternities had1965.8946 
1915 1966.2146rooms, their own1967.3151 
1917 1967.5592rooms.1968.2845 
1919 1968.8197So that w- so1969.6881 
1921 1969.9722I spent a lot of time in the Zeta room1971.4929 
1923DCB_se2_ag4_f_021972.1731over there.1972.7454
1924 1973.1135which is1974.0460
1926 1974.3500insulated and1975.6346 
1928 1976.2949not1976.7375 
1930 1977.7194many people know about it1978.9360 
1932 1979.5002and can go there.1980.7402 
1934 1981.1649So it was- it was just weird, it was like every week I was over at Virginia Union1984.7185 
1936 1985.1826while I was pledging.1985.9910 
1938 1986.3310And then when I became dean,1987.4035 
1940 1987.9998back over at Virginia Union.1989.3798 
1942DCB_se2_ag4_f_021989.7125Back over at Virginia Union, so.1992.0456
1943 1992.5257Yeah.1992.8830
1944DCB_int_011993.3460And what-1993.8581
1946 1994.3545So then- Okay.1995.5402 
1948DCB_int_011995.8791So that was your senior year- that was your junior year going into your senior year then you graduated.2000.8092
1949 2001.6615And then what happened next?2003.2743
1950DCB_se2_ag4_f_022003.9665I didn't graduate on time.2005.0390
1952DCB_se2_ag4_f_022005.8753I didn't graduate on time, one of um,2007.7599
1954 2007.9082the worst things for me2009.6810 
1956 2009.9610is2010.3532 
1958 2010.5092math.2011.1439 
1960 2011.4217Any type of math whatsoever it's just a deficit it doesn't compute in my brain.2015.7195 
1962 2016.4637And-2017.0040 
1964 2017.0960and I knew this, I've always known this.2019.2090 
1966 2019.6691And so I waited til my senior year2022.4304 
1968 2023.1186to take algebra one oh one.2024.7232 
1970 2025.3035Because I knew2026.1475 
1972 2027.1242and I failed it.2027.7565 
1974 2028.2127[<laugh> And I failed it.]2029.5940 
1975DCB_int_012028.5408[Mm. Okay.]2029.1411
1977 2029.2732[Mm.]2029.4853 
1978DCB_se2_ag4_f_022029.8334So it kept me from [graduating.]2031.2900
1979DCB_int_012031.1259[Mm. Mm-hm.]2031.7579
1980DCB_se2_ag4_f_022031.5301[So then] I had to make that call home to my father,2033.5274
1981 2033.7630<laugh>2035.3430
1982DCB_int_012035.3956That's a lot of calls home to [Daddy /that uh-/]2037.1044
1983DCB_se2_ag4_f_022036.3921[D- you know],2037.5086
1986DCB_int_012038.8371Was he as calm this time?2039.9937
1987DCB_se2_ag4_f_022039.9696He was. [He was like I said] there are certain things2043.0229
1989DCB_se2_ag4_f_022043.6792um, I can remember2045.1552
1991 2045.6360uh, cause my father's v-2046.8405 
1993 2046.9925/has a/ hot head, hot temper, very-2048.9454 
1995 2049.1575father's a very mean man.2050.2380 
1997 2050.6781Um, but there was certain2051.9507 
1999 2052.1788things that2053.1953 
2001 2053.8194would happen that he would be- totally be calm.2055.8324 
2003 2056.3805My mother was good at wrecking cars.2058.0573 
2005 2058.5814And you know <laugh> [was good-]2061.2254 
2006DCB_int_012059.6427[<laugh> Just wreck 'em.]2061.2275
2007DCB_se2_ag4_f_022061.7509In the sixties and seventies were wrecking cars and whenever she got in a accident,2066.3688
2009 2066.6287he remained calm, he was cool.2068.7447 
2011 2069.0779Either got the car fixed or just2070.5912 
2013 2071.1147got another car.2071.8240 
2015 2073.8919And [um],2074.7202 
2017DCB_se2_ag4_f_022074.8003you know so when I call home-2076.1910
2019 2076.5969And at that point2077.5373 
2021 2077.6253I w- had-2078.1096 
2023 2078.6578I had already started working.2080.0231 
2025 2080.2666So I went to school for chemical dependency rehabilitation.2083.1838 
2027 2083.6359So I was already working at two different places as-2086.5812 
2029 2086.8172as a chemical dependency counselor2088.4100 
2031 2088.5740while finishing up2089.3824 
2033 2089.5985school2089.9707 
2035 2090.0987by then.2090.5241 
2037 2091.0150Um,2091.4417 
2039 2092.0675because I had done my-2093.2601 
2041 2093.3480my um,2094.0013 
2043 2094.3445internship2094.9965 
2045 2095.3409at a couple places and then they hired me2097.1536 
2047DCB_se2_ag4_f_022097.3737[part time] so then-2098.3182
2048 2098.6383you know so they cou- my parents couldn't argue with that because that was a job working in-2101.8957
2050 2102.1557jobs working in my [field.]2103.3144 
2052 2103.4362So that's what you had been working for [these four years] or these four and a half years since you've been in school.2107.3100
2054 2107.4180Right.2107.6580
2056 2107.9742So2108.5343 
2058 2108.6423I /had/ got my grades,2109.6268 
2060 2109.8829and I remember I was at one of my jobs when I called him to say,2112.5441 
2062 2112.7841got my grades and I didn't-2114.4649 
2064 2114.6410you know, I failed math. And so he was really calm then he said,2117.3581 
2066 2117.7063what do you wanna do?2118.3676 
2068 2119.1388I said, I wanna take it over in summer school.2120.9115 
2070 2121.4078And he said,2122.0358 
2072 2122.2922find out how much it's gonna cost and let me know.2123.8169 
2074 2125.3054And I did it and I passed and2126.5700 
2076 2126.6981so2126.9222 
2078 2127.2343[with the-]2127.5730 
2079DCB_int_012127.2463[Do you think] he was really calm because you were the first one to go to college and it wasn't-2131.3560
2080 2131.4841there was-2131.8722
2082 2132.0483he didn't wanna push you out like- like2133.7910 
2084 2133.9570say forget it /but/ he wanted you to finish it?2135.8973 
2085DCB_se2_ag4_f_022136.4781I was going to finish there was no question [it was ju- <laugh>]2139.4635
2086DCB_int_012138.3030[And you think that's why he kind of was] like, let me back up?2140.4720
2087 2140.5479[And back off] a little bit?2141.6159
2089 2141.6764yeah.2142.0646
2091 2142.4085[Yeah.]2142.7845 
2093 2143.5890Um, so when you finished [kind of what-]2145.7620
2095 2146.1022What happened?2146.6304
2097DCB_se2_ag4_f_022147.0907I finished school,2148.0351
2099 2148.2591I stayed in Richmond.2149.1195 
2101 2150.1438Um,2150.6601 
2103 2150.7521and I2151.4204 
2105 2151.5045at one time2152.3368 
2107 2152.9570had four jobs.2153.9503 
2109 2154.2096They were all part time jobs,2155.7269 
2111DCB_se2_ag4_f_022156.3505um, two of 'em were2157.5270
2113 2157.6270counseling2158.3034 
2115 2158.9475which didn't pay much money but it was what I wanted to do.2161.2409 
2117DCB_se2_ag4_f_022161.8488Um, another job I worked at2164.3459
2119 2164.4899Traveler's Insurance they had the Medicare contracts so I was processing Medicare claims.2168.8596 
2121 2169.3719Um, and then2171.2327 
2123 2171.6609I l-2172.0251 
2125 2172.4013I worked at2173.2577 
2127 2173.5257a bank, I worked at um,2175.5466 
2129 2175.9106I can't even remember the name of the bank now.2177.1112 
2131 2177.6114Um, but I worked there from four in the morning to twelve noon2180.9288 
2133 2181.3529processing credit cards, that's when credit cards were2184.2383 
2135 2184.3222um, when you payed credit card [they sw-]2185.7708 
2136DCB_int_012185.4147[And they swiped /the little-/]2186.3071
2137DCB_se2_ag4_f_022186.0470[swiped] your card and it was that little s-2187.3676
2138 2187.5876[rectangular piece.]2188.4920
2139DCB_int_012187.6156[Imprint, mm-hm.]2188.5880
2140DCB_se2_ag4_f_022188.8241And so I processed those.2190.2688
2142 2190.5088So um, yeah I would2191.7013 
2144 2191.8134work on the weekends, I was single, I had my own place, I had a car,2195.1629 
2146 2195.6190and uh, so I just worked.2197.0950 
2148 2197.2917That's all I wanted to do was work.2198.3922 
2150 2198.9004So I worked all the time.2199.7648 
2151DCB_int_012200.0247Was it- did you wanna work cause you wanted to like2201.6174
2153 2201.9256get money, save up money? Or did you just want to work cause you just loved like2204.8990 
2154DCB_se2_ag4_f_022205.0949I just [wanted to work.]2205.7589
2155DCB_int_012205.3470[being on your] own?2206.0110
2156DCB_se2_ag4_f_022206.1074I just wanted to be on my own and I just wanted to work.2207.7480
2158 2208.7045And I didn't wanna come back home.2209.5729 
2160 2210.6853[<laugh>]2211.9973 
2163 2211.3576[Okay so how] do we-2212.3941 
2164 2212.4701how do we-2213.0794
2166 2213.2743how do we end up [back here like] kind of what was the path of2216.2516 
2167DCB_se2_ag4_f_022214.2548[Back home?]2214.7710
2168DCB_int_012216.5277fifteen jobs2217.6082
2170DCB_int_012218.0524[to coming back?]2218.7231
2173DCB_se2_ag4_f_022219.9292on the job /that/ I work at the bank,2221.4219
2175DCB_se2_ag4_f_022221.8220from four in the morning2222.8025
2176 2223.1545to-2223.8469
2178 2223.9829to noon,2224.7231 
2180 2224.8113I met my first husband.2226.1999 
2182DCB_se2_ag4_f_022226.8001He worked five-2227.9446
2184 2228.5927five to two.2229.2772 
2186 2229.7212Five to one.2230.1894 
2188 2230.9858And um, met him2232.3464 
2190 2232.9107and then we got married2234.3313 
2192 2235.1995in eighty seven.2236.6075 
2194 2237.3605I met him in eighty six, we got married in eighty seven,2239.5975 
2196 2240.0176my daughter was born in eighty eight.2241.7264 
2198 2242.5226Um,2243.2990 
2200 2243.5991he had lost his job2244.8005 
2202DCB_se2_ag4_f_022245.6730[and] so we couldn't afford2247.4528
2203 2248.4052to s-2249.1176
2205 2249.5016stay together once2250.6782 
2207 2251.1663I went into labor and had2252.3228 
2209 2252.4549the baby cause then I couldn't work.2253.9869 
2211 2254.6718So.2254.9958 
2213 2255.8563Um,2256.3525 
2215 2257.1128so the plan was that-2259.1274 
2217 2259.9420my daughter was born in October,2261.5427 
2219 2262.2589the plan was that in November around2264.2278 
2221 2264.3759Thanksgiving2265.1199 
2223 2266.3286um, the baby and I moved back home.2267.9453 
2225 2268.9137While he got-2269.4260 
2227 2269.6741found a job and got on his feet.2271.1068 
2229 2271.2987The cool thing was that as we were packing up,2273.4947 
2231 2273.8598he did find a job.2275.0844 
2233 2275.4765But by then2276.1769 
2235 2276.2889all our money was gone2277.2854 
2237 2277.6295from him not working.2278.5059 
2239 2279.0499So um,2279.8703 
2241 2279.9354the plan was that2280.9068 
2243 2281.5031um, I left in November,2282.7356 
2245 2283.0717by February the baby and I were supposed to go back to Richmond.2285.6929 
2247DCB_se2_ag4_f_022286.4771And that didn't happen,2287.2865
2249 2287.4096so I ended up being here, staying here and then he and I got divorced.2290.6389 
2250DCB_int_012291.3151So how long were you married, a year?2292.6357
2252 2292.7838A year and a half? Two years?2293.7211 
2253DCB_se2_ag4_f_022293.6842Fifteen months.2294.4766
2256 2296.8896But you have a daughter,2297.6779 
2258 2297.9900and that's a great thing.2298.9344 
2259DCB_se2_ag4_f_022298.9464And a daughter.2299.5427
2260DCB_int_012299.4867So now you came back home, [were you]2301.4156
2262DCB_int_012301.5314at home with mom and [dad?]2302.7940
2264 2303.3802For a year.2303.9896
2267 2305.1771[How was that?]2305.9614 
2268DCB_se2_ag4_f_022305.1891[One year.]2305.8854
2269 2306.0054It- it wasn't good.2307.4421
2271 2307.5580It wasn't good. <laugh>2309.1147 
2273 2309.6387It wasn't good on a n-2310.8513 
2275 2310.9874on lots of levels, one,2312.3687 
2277 2312.6842I didn't wanna be at home.2313.6646 
2279 2313.7925I [was raised] to be independent, be on my own, not to2317.3022 
2281DCB_se2_ag4_f_022317.5822rely on anyone.2318.7089
2283 2318.9148That's how I was raised, to be self sufficient2321.5960 
2285 2322.0440and um,2323.2966 
2287 2323.5367to do2324.2010 
2289 2324.3411whatever I need to do2325.2651 
2291 2325.4096on my own.2326.0058 
2293DCB_se2_ag4_f_022327.1262The other thing is that two mothers in one household do not work.2330.5597
2297 2332.6846And the other is that I was right back in this situation2335.8420 
2299 2336.2061with2336.9927 
2301 2337.1105my father2337.8998 
2303 2338.2267and2338.9854 
2305 2339.2392um,2339.7512 
2307 2339.9075his own issues and being nasty and mean.2342.8167 
2309 2343.1329So I had to get the hell out of Dodge as quick as I can.2345.5220 
2311DCB_se2_ag4_f_022345.8822So soon as I came back,2347.1948
2313 2347.5774um,2348.1374 
2315 2349.1794you know I was there exactly a year.2350.8728 
2316DCB_int_012351.6325And you were like, I'm done.2352.5245
2317DCB_se2_ag4_f_022352.6409And then I moved out.2353.6094
2319 2354.3057And then2354.7739 
2321 2354.8818moved into Riverdale.2355.7622 
2323 2356.8226[Yup so I start-] so I c- so what happened was I came home in November,2359.6039 
2324DCB_int_012356.9267[And so-]2357.3533
2325 2359.6238Mm-hm.2359.9559
2326DCB_se2_ag4_f_022360.4392um, by February was you know,2362.8693
2328 2362.9972uh,2363.4694 
2330 2363.7776it was determined that I wasn't going back to Richmond,2366.3161 
2332 2366.8349so I found a job and started working.2368.6236 
2334 2369.9482And [so] then by-2370.6764 
2336DCB_se2_ag4_f_022370.7725from February to November is when I saved up all my money and then2374.1071
2338 2374.8784my daughter and I moved out.2375.8468 
2339DCB_int_012377.3434And then how did that-2378.2180
2341 2379.0919and then what did you do for2380.5893 
2343 2381.2369the next /span?/2382.3574 
2345 2382.6056Because how- then you2384.0701 
2347 2384.3663worked for a w- long time.2385.7089 
2351 2387.4796and then you got remarried.2388.6481 
2352DCB_se2_ag4_f_022388.9601Mm I-2389.9926
2354 2390.0967I met2390.9233 
2356 2391.5453the twins' father.2392.6058 
2358DCB_se2_ag4_f_022393.4059<ts> We didn't- we were planning to get married but [we didn't get ma-]2395.9311
2359DCB_int_012395.0867[And no one got ma- Okay.]2395.9791
2362DCB_se2_ag4_f_022396.7555Um, so we- we um,2399.2048
2364 2399.7446<ts>2399.8287 
2366 2399.9287we m-2400.3329 
2368 2400.4690moved in together when I was pregnant with the twins,2403.1222 
2370 2403.8503and then we separated2405.5111 
2372 2405.6391when the twins were like a year and a month old.2407.7401 
2373DCB_int_012408.8045And then you're like, alright.2409.9151
2375 2410.5333So2411.0055 
2377 2411.4377um,2412.0510 
2379 2412.1339and then what did you do? Now how did you get from-2414.6152 
2381 2415.5833So you were working at the bank and then what was the jo- you were just working at-2418.2214 
2383 2418.3035whatever2418.7497 
2385 2418.9488[payed the bills]2419.7892 
2386DCB_se2_ag4_f_022418.9968[When I was a-]2419.4690
2387DCB_int_012420.2494after your daughter was born?2421.4659
2389DCB_int_012422.3502Or are you working in your field?2423.4769
2392 2425.2113I was working in my field2426.7040 
2394 2426.9905and at the bank up until2428.8090 
2396 2429.4411my daughter was born.2430.1575 
2398DCB_se2_ag4_f_022430.4976When I was living in Richmond.2431.4083
2400DCB_se2_ag4_f_022432.1064When I came back home2433.4788
2402 2433.9430um,2434.5723 
2404 2434.7834I thought I was going back to Richmond so I didn't get a job2437.2847 
2406 2437.5405until it was2438.1379 
2408 2438.3809obvious I wasn't going back.2440.1017 
2410 2440.2096So then I started looking for a job,2441.6390 
2412 2442.1522and I ended up-2443.2647 
2414 2443.4968started off working2444.5813 
2416 2444.6756at2444.9997 
2418 2445.1038a hospital2445.7961 
2420 2446.8164in billing2447.4951 
2422 2447.8609in um,2448.7613 
2424 2449.6937Doctor's Hospital in Arlington,2451.3704 
2426 2451.4825it's [called something] else now.2452.5283 
2430 2453.7314so,2454.1716 
2432 2454.2837I did that.2454.8730 
2434 2455.6882And then from there I started working for2458.5775 
2436 2459.2497Group Health Adminis-2460.3297 
2438 2460.5302Group Health Association, GHA they're no longer.2462.9633 
2440 2463.4914And they were the first HMO in the DC area.2466.0846 
2442 2466.8449So I worked for them2468.1195 
2444 2469.5940ooh almost ten years.2470.8986 
2446 2471.2428And then they decided to pull up out of the area2473.6159 
2448 2474.0479and2474.3401 
2450 2474.5082laid everybody off.2475.6167 
2451DCB_int_012476.1968So how did you get-2476.9771
2453 2477.1371because now you do- I mean it's still2478.8545 
2455 2478.9340administration2480.0580 
2457 2480.1425[um],2480.4012 
2459DCB_int_012480.5147but it's a little different but I also know you do event [planning, like how did] you [kind of-]2484.1883
2462 2483.8280[How did I] get there?2484.6043 
2463DCB_int_012484.5643All that2485.1446
2464 2485.3167[kind of came] together.2486.3131
2466 2486.5851so when I left Richmond and came back here2489.0823
2468 2489.4663um,2490.0237 
2470 2490.2387it ended up I wasn't going back to Richmond that wasn't my plan and my2493.6123 
2472 2493.7161idea.2494.2203 
2474 2494.6445And so I didn't want2496.1212 
2476 2496.3293to2496.9656 
2478 2497.8059be a counselor2499.0606 
2480 2499.5105because I felt2500.2268 
2482 2500.3709that2500.7751 
2484 2501.2873I had needed to get my own life straight2502.9561 
2486 2503.3042and my own emotional state straight2505.0371 
2488 2505.3409before I start- I could help other people2507.2138 
2490DCB_se2_ag4_f_022507.5218[with their] issues.2508.4899
2491 2509.0267And so I just- um, I didn't wanna do that2511.5197
2493 2512.3761until I got myself straight.2513.4444 
2495 2513.5565So I just /start-/ went through2515.5118 
2497 2515.6453back then you didn't /know/ on the internet2517.2421 
2499 2517.3942cause there wasn't-2518.0368 
2501DCB_se2_ag4_f_022518.5466<laugh> [You know],2519.5750
2503DCB_se2_ag4_f_022519.7791I was in the Washington Post2520.7858
2505 2520.8995looking for jobs, and I found2522.2962 
2507 2522.4082the job at the hospital.2523.4127 
2509 2523.7248And that's what I did to pay the bills.2525.4536 
2511 2525.7935And then I found the job at GHA.2527.5349 
2513 2527.8665And so I was processing2529.1972 
2515 2529.7514claims-2530.4117 
2517 2530.5076insurance claims [again.]2531.5743 
2519DCB_se2_ag4_f_022531.9923In the hospital I was doing billing.2533.4530
2521 2534.1931Um, insurance [billing] so it was all that so I had that-2536.5582 
2523DCB_se2_ag4_f_022536.6782got that training when I was in Richmond to do2538.8672
2525 2539.3593um,2539.7355 
2527 2540.2317ICD-9 coding and CDT coding and so that's what I did to pay the bills.2544.4775 
2529 2544.9497And um-2545.9982 
2531 2546.7905and so from2548.1872 
2533 2548.5631there,2549.4115 
2535 2550.1879when they laid everybody off I found a job2553.0932 
2537 2553.1892as an executive secretary for2555.4622 
2539 2556.3785th-2556.5424 
2541 2557.4909Nope.2557.7430 
2543 2557.8430I'm sorry let me back up.2558.7394 
2545 2559.3197(makes rewind noise)2560.0681 
2549 2561.6088[so after GHA] laid us all off2563.6655 
2550 2564.0618I-2564.6391
2552 2565.4302um, someone told me about2567.2390 
2554 2567.3711the DC2568.4196 
2556 2568.5156Dislocated Workers Program2570.0683 
2558 2570.9806[Which], if you had been on your job for two years in DC or you worked in DC and you got laid off due to no fault of your own,2577.6595 
2560DCB_se2_ag4_f_022578.1917at that time,2579.0361
2562 2579.6122there was ten thousand dollars2581.1850 
2564 2581.3570for you to-2582.6577 
2566 2582.7895education expenses for you if you wanted to be retrained in a different field.2586.4312 
2568DCB_se2_ag4_f_022587.5475[I don't know if it still] exists or not2588.9042
2569 2589.2563but it was there then.2590.6963
2571 2591.1890And so while um, I was out and- and2594.8028 
2573 2594.9186getting2595.3348 
2575 2595.9110you know the severance package,2597.1556 
2577 2597.8800I enrolled in this computer school.2599.5927 
2579 2599.9407And I learned2600.4289 
2581 2600.5329everything about computers that I could, I learned2602.6619 
2583 2602.8820all- everyth- all the-2603.9665 
2585 2604.0666the Office pro-2604.8389 
2587 2605.0149Suite programs.2606.0394 
2589 2606.6076Um,2607.0158 
2591 2607.1159I2607.5583 
2593 2608.0962learned C p- C+, C++ and Visual Basic.2611.0776 
2595 2612.2516And um-2613.2020 
2597 2613.4112and it was all payed for.2614.4352 
2599 2614.8118You know.2615.2040 
2600DCB_int_012615.4841[And that was a big deal at that-] cause computers were the thing at that [point like you know]2619.6291
2601DCB_se2_ag4_f_022615.4881[I took every class.]2616.8848
2603 2619.0408[Right.]2619.4730 
2604DCB_int_012619.8611they weren't just kind of whatever.2621.1137
2606 2622.0220So um-2623.1385
2608 2623.2506and this was in the nineties, this was in the mid-nineties so I did that,2626.3600 
2610 2626.7960and then um,2628.2767 
2612 2628.8449from there,2629.7383 
2614 2630.1815I found2631.5542 
2616 2632.3503the job as an executive secretary for this guy who-2635.4878 
2618 2635.5718it was a small office and he owned it hisself.2637.5625 
2620 2638.2408But he2639.2212 
2622 2640.4218did2641.0551 
2624 2641.3862environmental consulting2642.9590 
2626 2643.4790for this group2644.3954 
2628 2644.9196of peop-2645.4079 
2630 2645.6360group of guys in Belgium and Japan2647.5529 
2632 2647.9370which was wonderful for me,2649.4137 
2634 2649.7976because then I got exposure to international things.2653.0695 
2636DCB_se2_ag4_f_022653.4352[So] I got ex- and you know I2655.1485
2637 2655.4401became exposed to2656.7607
2639 2657.0808the Japanese and- and2658.6095 
2641 2658.7135the2659.0417 
2643 2659.2178businessman who would come.2660.2740 
2645 2660.8062And the Belgians2661.7347 
2647 2661.8627who were my favorite because they always brought me candy and chocolates.2664.7721 
2649 2665.2203Oh [my god.]2665.6565 
2653 2667.2811best chocolates.2668.0745 
2655 2668.4015Uh, which is now I would not- I would very rarely eat Hershey chocolate now because I've been exposed to2673.3035 
2656DCB_int_012673.3195Mm. [Mm-hm.]2674.1239
2657DCB_se2_ag4_f_022673.6277[Better stuff] so the l-2674.7384
2658DCB_int_012674.5041[It's hard] to2675.1084
2659 2675.2004have [like little hamburger] when you have this- Mm.2677.7616
2660DCB_se2_ag4_f_022675.5646[You know],2676.2326
2662 2676.6531[Godiva's slumming] for me.2678.2818 
2663 2678.4657[You know. <laugh>]2680.1345
2664DCB_int_012678.5697[Mm. Mm-hm.]2680.1425
2665 2680.6347[I'm so sorry you gotta struggle /RD-NAME-2/ so sorry.]2683.0197
2666DCB_se2_ag4_f_022680.8148[<laugh> You know it's a- it's a] struggle, struggle, somebody gotta do it.2684.4642
2667 2684.9726But um,2685.4128
2669 2685.5927so from there,2687.0247 
2671 2688.1978um, I only worked for him about seven2689.9786 
2673 2690.1347eight months [cause] he was a tyrant.2691.8040 
2675DCB_se2_ag4_f_022692.2875And- <laugh> and um,2693.5981
2677 2693.8882so from there2694.6365 
2679 2694.9727I2695.5220 
2681 2695.7050went to2696.6864 
2683 2696.8256the place I came2697.7060 
2685 2698.1819from before I came here2699.2865 
2687 2699.4705which was National Childr-2700.9752 
2689 2701.3034Children's Alliance.2702.2798 
2691 2702.6920And I was there for sixteen years.2704.3448 
2693 2704.8768And from there I- I started off as2707.7221 
2695 2708.1863um,2708.7666 
2697 2709.0385executive assistant,2709.9478 
2699DCB_se2_ag4_f_022710.8553and then my-2711.6966
2701 2712.3360it's like the more they figured out I knew or things I could do, my position kept evolving. [It was a small] non-profit, smaller than this one. It was-2719.7190 
2703DCB_se2_ag4_f_022719.8031it's a national non-profit but there were only-2721.8360
2705 2722.2402and it's2722.6095 
2707 2723.5448sixteen people at the-2724.8052 
2709 2724.9212at-2725.0893 
2711 2725.4254/at this./2725.9694 
2713 2727.6345Yeah.2727.9411 
2715 2728.1227Only2728.3947 
2717 2728.4989sixteen people was the highest number of employees we had [at one time.]2731.4281 
2718DCB_int_012730.8797[Oh okay yeah] it's tiny.2732.0643
2721 2733.0567Well um, so2734.1314 
2723 2735.0654from2735.8538 
2725 2736.1659executive assistant I moved into like2738.4470 
2727 2738.5510uh,2738.8910 
2729 2739.4274administrative coordinator,2740.6240 
2731 2740.8839office manager and- and did all that kind of stuff.2743.4851 
2733 2743.9733And then I moved into2745.7346 
2735 2746.2862helping with our conference.2747.7942 
2737 2748.1871So-2748.5911 
2739 2749.5437so I already had some event planning experience from doing family things.2753.4694 
2741DCB_se2_ag4_f_022754.0495<ts> And um-2755.3588
2743 2755.9824and then I just-2756.8628 
2745 2757.0589I'm just2757.6071 
2747 2759.1517well coordinated I guess so I'm good at coordinating things and so I just kept-2764.1779 
2749 2764.6819And I'm good at making relationships and building [relationships] and I'm good at negotiating contracts and so it- my position just kept evolving, evolving,2772.3452 
2751DCB_se2_ag4_f_022772.6853and so I went from2773.6014
2753 2773.8659administrative coordinator2775.3392 
2755 2775.6065the2776.0947 
2757 2776.1947um,2776.6990 
2759 2777.1472event2777.5554 
2761 2777.8995management coordinator.2779.2155 
2763 2779.8684Uh-oh.2780.2286 
2764DCB_int_012780.2246Okay well let me-2781.1890
2765 2781.4369Somebody's calling us, hold on.2782.9576
2767DCB_int_012784.0701[We'll tell 'em that you're] not available.2785.6848
2768 2789.1242Boys and Girls Club, this is Minnie how may I help you?2791.4335
2770 2794.5226Um,2795.3039 
2772 2795.6749just one m- do you know /RD-NAME-2/ extension?2798.5868 
2773DCB_se2_ag4_f_022799.0604I don't rem- (whispered)2799.7528
2774DCB_int_012801.2332Okay, I2802.6138
2776 2802.9660um-2803.6367 
2777DCB_se2_ag4_f_022804.3987Transfer to the front desk?2805.5232
2778DCB_int_012806.2355Yes ma'am just one moment.2807.7049
2779DCB_se2_ag4_f_022809.5928The front desk?2810.2542
2780DCB_int_012810.3292I don't know how to [/transfer./]2811.3496
2781DCB_se2_ag4_f_022810.8574[Two three-] Uh, transfer,2812.1507
2783DCB_se2_ag4_f_022813.2983Two three zero one.2814.3428
2785 2819.0167Transfer.2819.4649 
2787 2824.0430Transfer?2824.4072 
2789 2825.3874There you go.2825.7115 
2791 2827.2363<laugh>2827.8202 
2794 2829.4972That's why you the-2830.3279 
2796 2831.5501you the little person [cause I don't] know how to do [that.]2833.3208 
2799 2833.1506[/There] you go./2833.5348 
2800DCB_int_012834.0831Alright um-2835.1084
2801DCB_se2_ag4_f_022835.1876And so yeah, so then my- it just kept2836.8163
2803 2837.0564evolving and /volving./2838.0889 
2805 2838.4249And then um,2839.6615 
2807 2840.2977so then they wanted2841.0590 
2809 2841.3021I had the choice of s-2842.1328 
2811 2842.4147of staying2843.1920 
2813 2843.7392you know2843.9951 
2815 2844.1754as the2844.8957 
2817 2845.0478assistant to2846.1603 
2819 2847.0646the CEO2847.8809 
2821 2848.2491executive director or2849.5105 
2823 2849.8058moving to2850.4805 
2825 2851.0622full time event planning and that's what I wanna do so I- I2854.2196 
2827 2854.6198manage and coordinated all the2856.2998 
2829 2856.4605conferences, meetings, events,2859.0297 
2831 2859.2056and it was cool because I got to travel.2860.9584 
2833 2861.6987And I'm just traveling,2863.2434 
2835 2864.9560s-2865.2641 
2837 2865.4562about eight times a year.2866.4335 
2839 2867.0930And um- cause we were a national organization so we'd ha- so every January I was in San Diego2872.1911 
2841 2872.3151for a conference and a board meeting.2873.9125 
2843 2874.2240You know um,2875.1284 
2845 2875.3005I got to go to Hawaii2876.3370 
2847 2876.7409because of another conference with this job and then I represented2879.8024 
2849 2880.1545our organization2881.1590 
2851 2881.2790at2881.4871 
2853 2882.0472other2882.5194 
2855 2883.0876um,2883.5303 
2857 2884.2402domestic violence and2885.8609 
2859 2885.9690child abuse organizations so2887.9379 
2861 2888.1777it was a- it-2888.6260 
2863 2888.7031it was really fun.2889.5664 
2865 2890.2427It was fun.2890.7589 
2868 2891.6393before we come to how you-2893.0000 
2869DCB_se2_ag4_f_022893.3639Got [here?]2893.7881
2872DCB_int_012895.4329It's interesting that you talk about travel because like I said one of the things is looking at like culture and life in DC.2901.3545
2874DCB_int_012901.9756And I think when you go away,2903.5476
2876 2903.7764you're able to kind of realize2905.2850 
2878 2905.6972what's unique,2906.6546 
2880 2906.7816what do you love about the city, what do you hate about the city.2909.0229 
2882DCB_int_012909.3348[So tell] me how do you view2911.5158
2883 2912.4400DC?2913.0493
2885 2913.4485Do you view it as, I love this city I wanna stay here forever and ever,2917.4806 
2887 2918.0263I wish this would change, or2919.8992 
2889 2920.2233you know, this is great this is not so great,2921.8241 
2891 2921.9799what are your2922.4252 
2893 2922.6082feelings, opinions,2924.0249 
2895 2924.3371what gets your goat2925.3934 
2897DCB_int_012926.1138[about] this city?2927.0062
2898DCB_se2_ag4_f_022927.2704I'm not in love with the city.2928.8870
2900 2928.9870I'm not2929.6153 
2902 2929.8594like, I'm gonna stay here the rest of my life, I'm not-2931.8841 
2904 2932.6646I'm not-2933.1259 
2906 2933.7689don't have that opinion either.2935.0262 
2908 2935.4937Um,2936.0337 
2910 2936.5542before the twins were born-2937.8788 
2912 2938.1428and I was thirty eight when the twins were born and now they're thirteen so2941.5559 
2914 2942.1404a lot of what2943.1365 
2916 2944.2494I may have want- and- and I'm not with their father anymore2947.1387 
2918 2947.3988and I wanna make sure they stay-2948.6241 
2920 2948.9633we stay somewhere where they2950.2039 
2922 2950.2959have that exposure2951.3564 
2924 2951.8286um, to their father.2952.8033 
2926 2953.8573Um, my retirement city was New Orleans.2956.1015 
2927DCB_int_012956.5065Mm. [/Okay./]2957.1145
2928DCB_se2_ag4_f_022956.8187[That's where I was] gonna be.2958.1393
2929DCB_int_012957.2269[/? that's-/]2957.6111
2930DCB_se2_ag4_f_022958.5795That's where I was gonna be I was gonna be in-2960.0599
2932 2960.1720in New Orleans2960.8963 
2934 2961.2685um,2961.7725 
2936 2962.0168and2962.4330 
2938 2962.6651this was like twenty years ago I had made that decision [so it had] nothing to do with Katrina and the levees and nothing like that I was in love with2969.2079 
2940DCB_se2_ag4_f_022969.6961the Garden District of New Orleans and that's where I was gonna retire.2973.1215
2942 2975.3105Then2976.2838 
2944 2976.5870I2977.1632 
2946 2977.3313ended up2978.1557 
2948 2978.3678in2979.1762 
2950 2979.3803Tucson2979.9523 
2952 2980.1844for2980.6646 
2954 2981.1048work [a couple] of times /and was like,/2982.7656 
2958 2984.1742I'm retiring in Tucson.2985.8629 
2960DCB_se2_ag4_f_022986.0750This is where I'm going.2987.2836
2962 2987.6317No allergies,2989.1842 
2964 2989.3042I only had to deal with monsoon season three weeks out of the year,2992.8539 
2966 2993.1620I got mountains, I got horses cause I love horseback riding,2997.3078 
2968 2997.6317I got all this going on,2998.8563 
2970 2998.9964I'm going to Tucson.3000.0448 
2972 3000.7092/I-/ well.3001.8217 
2974 3002.1578I don't know where I'm gonna end up.3003.4904 
2976 3003.7783I don't know.3004.4026 
2978 3004.5707Um,3005.0320 
2980 3005.6032DC, I'll be happy to move away from this area3008.8767 
2982 3009.8129at some point.3010.6302 
2984 3010.8493Even if it is after- the twins are thirteen,3013.4105 
2986 3013.8107after they're in college or whatever they're gonna do with their lives.3016.2756 
2988 3016.8879Um,3017.3961 
2990 3018.0564I've seen a lot of changes in this city from the sev-3021.0897 
2992 3021.2178from the sixties.3021.9858 
2994 3022.2261I mean I was here when the riots were going on.3024.2032 
2996DCB_se2_ag4_f_023024.3071[I] remember3025.2915
2997 3026.1758when the riots were going on I was3028.1808
2999 3028.2886three.3028.6087 
3001 3029.2610And I remember the fires3031.0584 
3003 3031.3300and3031.8022 
3005 3031.9022at that time we hadn't moved to Deanwood the house hadn't been built yet, it was being built.3036.1398 
3007 3036.7122And we lived at Fourteenth and Chapin Northwest.3040.0097 
3009 3040.1576[So there] was a Safeway there on Fourteenth Street and some other businesses.3044.4155 
3011DCB_se2_ag4_f_023044.8516I remember my father3046.3763
3013 3046.4804walking us down Four-3047.5008 
3015 3047.6169walking me down-3048.4413 
3017 3048.8612sorry.3049.2666 
3019 3049.7016Um, Chapin Street to Fourteen,3051.4864 
3021 3051.8586and then two blocks over there was a Safeway.3053.7955 
3023 3054.3316And3054.8770 
3025 3055.1160I remember him putting me on his shoulders and we watched that Safeway burn down.3058.6174 
3027 3059.6298And my mother was livid.3060.6623 
3029 3060.7864Because you know it was dangerous, and he had her child out there.3064.3239 
3031 3064.5800So I remember the riots, I remember you know3067.7652 
3033 3068.2014the fires, the looting, I remember that.3070.8266 
3034DCB_int_013071.3669Even as a young [child?]3072.5552
3035DCB_se2_ag4_f_023072.2591[I remember] that cause I remember seeing it, it was so3075.3885
3036 3075.4966overwhelming, now I don't remem-3076.9052
3038 3077.1732there are things from me being four and five I don't remember.3079.9705 
3039DCB_int_013080.4225[But that's vivid.]3081.3665
3040DCB_se2_ag4_f_023080.4745[Um, but there] are f- some things from-3083.1077
3041 3083.7080from living at that apartment when I was young I do remember.3086.8093
3043DCB_se2_ag4_f_023086.9012[There are some] things I did I do remember.3088.7701
3044 3089.1263Um, but that's one of the things I definitely remember those.3091.7595
3045DCB_int_013092.3275And how do you feel like-3094.0163
3047 3094.2324thinking about- So this is- now we're3096.2133 
3049 3096.3093thirty years later,3097.2658 
3051 3097.6018thirty five years later,3098.7405 
3053 3099.5027[and l-]3100.1230 
3054DCB_se2_ag4_f_023099.5067[Oh we're longer] than that.3100.8520
3057 3102.4038[Oh well you were four.]3103.3198 
3058DCB_se2_ag4_f_023102.4278[We're almost fifty. <laugh>]3106.0975
3059DCB_int_013103.5443[Yeah okay.]3104.0886
3061 3104.2126[My bad.]3104.6768 
3063 3104.7849[My math was off. I'm sorry.]3106.1935 
3064 3106.6815Uh, okay.3107.5859
3066 3107.6860So forty f- [seven-ish years later.]3110.1951 
3067DCB_se2_ag4_f_023108.6424[Mm-hm, f- uh-huh.]3110.0791
3070 3112.0319you know3112.4441 
3072 3112.8723it used to be chocolate city.3114.2529 
3074 3114.5209Now we see a very-3115.8942 
3076 3116.5578Kind of how do you see the city3118.0705 
3078 3118.7186physically changing3119.9986 
3080DCB_int_013120.0952[demographically] changing?3121.8200
3082DCB_int_013122.2842How do you feel like that's affecting the city especially like,3124.4733
3083 3124.7571the same- your childhood home,3126.4025
3085 3126.6700how many people can say3127.8314 
3087 3128.2948their family still owns their childhood [homes?]3130.5297 
3088DCB_se2_ag4_f_023130.4456[Right] because it's- it-3132.0824
3089 3134.1811it's nothing-3135.1598
3091 3135.3177DC is nothing3136.5622 
3093 3136.9744like it was when I was a child.3138.8671 
3095 3139.0471It's nothing, the buildings are all different,3141.3002 
3097 3141.7524um, things you know3143.2331 
3099 3143.4489streets are different, they look different, people who live here are different.3146.9626 
3101 3147.3427It's hard to find someone who is originally from DC.3150.7882 
3103 3151.2084It's- DC is now full of transplants3153.0533 
3105 3153.3051who can't park.3154.2651 
3107 3154.6417They don't know how to parallel park.3155.6897 
3109 3155.9583because they're coming from places where /you/ just pulled in parking.3158.3675 
3111 3158.6594So3158.9460 
3113 3159.0876you know [back in the day],3160.6323 
3114DCB_int_013159.5318[I'm one of those.]3160.3361
3115DCB_se2_ag4_f_023161.2606people's bumpers were not torn up the w- I hate come park-3164.2778
3117 3164.3979/bringing/3164.8219 
3119 3164.9341my vehicle into the city because3166.5389 
3121 3166.6827people don't know how to park, they feel like parallel parking3169.5560 
3123 3169.9922you- you know,3170.8446 
3125 3171.2568when you bump somebody's car,3172.5454 
3127 3172.6375that's when you stop3173.3495 
3129 3173.4776and pull forward3174.1539 
3131DCB_se2_ag4_f_023174.7892when you're parking and it's like-3176.3779
3133 3176.7761[<laugh>]3177.3695 
3134DCB_int_013176.9792[Be like, no] that's not-3177.9379
3137DCB_se2_ag4_f_023178.7198So um, but it's full of transplants it's full of- like you said it was chocolate city, it was you know-3183.4918
3139 3184.2381you know we were in the city,3185.7728 
3141 3186.4111and everyone else was on the suburbs. Now it's3188.3840 
3143 3188.4760we've moved out of the city because3190.3129 
3145 3190.7408we can't afford to live here anymore.3192.5195 
3147 3193.7102You know3193.9916 
3149 3194.3745homes3194.9892 
3151 3195.6269in bad neighborhoods3196.9955 
3153 3197.1115cost a million dollars.3198.4075 
3155 3198.7243That is crazy.3199.8888 
3157 3200.8570That is crazy, I remember um,3202.5938 
3159 3203.4462maybe about fifteen years ago3205.1550 
3161 3205.6873my aunt lived in Sh-3206.6077 
3163 3206.6915the Shaw neighborhood.3207.5879 
3165DCB_se2_ag4_f_023208.2722And there were these three houses on R Street3212.3461
3167 3212.8063between3213.4784 
3169 3213.6064like Rhode Island and R cause R kind of is like diagonal.3216.7519 
3171 3217.3642And3217.7042 
3173 3217.9763there were these three houses on the left hand side,3220.2414 
3175 3220.6216and I looked up those houses and they were like a million point two.3223.9349 
3177DCB_se2_ag4_f_023226.2439And Rhode Island and R street3227.8086
3179 3228.4007ten years ago, ten, fifteen years ago.3230.2535 
3181 3230.3976And it's- that's just crazy.3231.5749 
3183 3231.9823And um-3232.9610 
3185 3233.7029I mean I like3234.8535 
3187 3234.9995the-3235.5555 
3189 3235.8199the-3236.0280 
3191 3236.4602the-3237.0495 
3193 3237.2245you know the building and development that's being done with3239.7336 
3195 3239.8736like the whole little3240.9581 
3197 3241.4461condos and- and apartments and they're very pretty and-3245.3359 
3199 3245.6841and they look really nice,3246.9086 
3201 3247.5367but who can afford to live in 'em?3248.9893 
3203DCB_se2_ag4_f_023250.4140You know, an- and I know people who have been forced out of their homes because now3254.7558
3205 3255.1039you know it's been re- their neighborhood has been rezoned and taxes have gone up3259.6380 
3207 3259.7298and they just cannot afford to live in the city anymore.3262.9553 
3209 3263.2274And that's a shame.3263.9958 
3211DCB_se2_ag4_f_023264.6198Because most of the people who are being moved out are3266.4887
3212 3266.9609elderly people.3267.8182
3215 3269.1218And that's why when you said your dad-3270.5418 
3217 3270.7506that3270.9867 
3219 3271.2908you know3271.6268 
3221 3271.9231you guys still have your family home3273.3197 
3223DCB_int_013273.8717shocked me, I mean I love that.3275.5878
3224DCB_se2_ag4_f_023275.7966[Right well],3276.4289
3225DCB_int_013275.8767[But it's-]3276.3993
3226DCB_se2_ag4_f_023276.7771we- it was built in the sixties,3278.5819
3228 3279.6168and they built it and it's been paid off. I mean3281.8899 
3230 3282.2593that was one thing my father was about,3284.3753 
3232 3284.5763money and3285.6648 
3234 3285.7529having more than what he came here with, my father always worked two jobs even when he didn't have to.3291.1072 
3236 3291.6632And so3292.6277 
3238 3292.8478the house was paid o- they got a thirty year mortgage and that house was paid off in thirty years, there was no second mortgage on it there was nothing.3299.5588 
3240 3299.7826He was determined3300.5990 
3242 3300.9952that3301.2953 
3244 3301.7075he paid his bills and paid 'em on time.3303.4603 
3247 3305.1609you know for the past twenty3308.2790
3249 3309.4869three years3310.5269 
3251 3311.1514that house has been payed for3312.3079 
3253 3313.1243and it's his.3313.8216 
3255DCB_se2_ag4_f_023315.0052[Now] my parents are separated3316.0777
3256 3316.4336Um, [they been separated] for over twenty years but3318.5186
3257DCB_int_013316.6137[Oh okay.]3317.0379
3258DCB_se2_ag4_f_023319.0428they'll never get divorced.3320.1873
3260 3320.8476And3321.6240 
3262 3322.0680um,3322.5293 
3264 3322.6802you know, my mother3323.4936 
3266 3323.6047moved out3324.1569 
3268 3324.3690and bought a condo not far from here3325.8657 
3270DCB_se2_ag4_f_023326.4179and um-3327.2845
3272 3327.5024But I mean we still all go to the house, my mother- you know we're-3330.0595 
3274 3330.1352we're all welcome there.3331.2942 
3276 3331.7069But3332.0310 
3278 3332.1271m-3332.2631 
3280 3332.3792that house is still in my parents' name.3333.7529 
3282 3335.1175And it's payed for free and clear.3336.7303 
3283DCB_int_013338.1908And [that's just] amazing [to me like-]3339.8375
3286 3339.2713[Uh-huh. <laugh>]3341.0281 
3289 3340.3478[you don't hear-] I mean like that's a really-3342.1606 
3290 3342.2404that's a very unique3343.5330
3292 3343.9212kind of story because you do hear3346.1302 
3294 3346.5824you know, I had to sell my house, or I had to move away, for whatever reason but3350.4161 
3296 3350.6522gentrification is a real thing like it- it's- it's- it's knocking on people's doors literally and figuratively like3356.7468 
3298 3356.9081now.3357.3763 
3300DCB_int_013358.0526As we speak.3358.8730
3302DCB_int_013359.1051[And so] to hear that- and I know3361.2181
3303 3361.8984you know3362.2877
3305 3362.7010um,3363.2493 
3307 3363.3814as more and more time it's gonna come3364.9061 
3309 3365.2422farther and farther across the river you know it was slow to-3367.6729 
3311 3367.8632to [really branch] and3369.1398 
3315 3369.9482cross that water [but now it's-] it's here.3372.0651 
3318 3372.0331Right.3372.2532 
3319 3372.6654The only reason my aunt, the one that raised my mother,3374.9422
3321 3375.6625/?/ um,3376.2159 
3323 3376.3909she died in two thousand seven.3378.9801 
3325 3380.6767And she was eighty five then.3381.8013 
3327DCB_se2_ag4_f_023382.0252[The] only reason she was able to still stay in the city3385.6709
3328 3386.0709was because uh, we're members of3387.8357
3330 3388.2599Asbury United Methodist Church.3389.7726 
3332 3389.8446So it's a big church and there's a lot of money in that church.3392.7416 
3334 3393.1100And they own3394.1825 
3336 3394.7225Asbury Dwellings which is on Rhode Island3397.0478 
3338 3397.4278Avenue near Seventh Street, Rhode Island and Seventh Street.3399.9848 
3340 3400.3890And so she was able3402.1058 
3342 3402.2018you know3402.5045 
3344 3403.0820to move into Asbury Dwellings3405.0589 
3346 3405.1550and pay minimal rent there.3406.8678 
3348 3407.1479Because she had been retired for so many years3408.9927 
3350 3409.2646that was the only way she was able to stay [in the city.]3411.2175 
3351DCB_int_013410.5412[In the city.]3411.1705
3352 3412.5702Yeah.3412.9141
3354 3413.2865Wow.3413.6226 
3356 3413.9946So3414.5708 
3358 3414.9990how do you f- do- have you done-3416.6657 
3360 3416.7879have you been a tourist in your city?3418.3406 
3362 3418.6327You know a lot of people come from all over the world to do the monuments and the museums and-3421.9500 
3364DCB_int_013422.3502[and you're down the street], do you-3423.6948
3366DCB_int_013424.0110[have you] done those things?3425.5474
3367DCB_se2_ag4_f_023425.5076You know the last time I been in the Washington Monument I was in second grade,3428.7609
3368 3428.8530I was eight years old.3429.4812
3370DCB_se2_ag4_f_023430.8698Um, I guess because I take it for granted,3433.1068
3372 3433.2789[because I've] grown up with it [and it's no] big deal.3435.6149 
3375 3434.7034[Mm-hm.]3435.0634 
3376DCB_se2_ag4_f_023436.0360When I was working at3437.2083
3378 3437.3324National Children's Alliance and I was the3439.7855 
3380 3439.8856you know, the c-3440.4458 
3382 3440.6179coordinator of the conference, their annual conference, and so there would be five hundred people from across the united states coming in.3445.8881 
3384 3446.3603And they'd always call me about3448.1363 
3386 3448.3730if the cherry blossoms are blooming, will they be in bloom when [the-]3451.2570 
3388DCB_se2_ag4_f_023451.6145when the- you know the conference is there, you know they asking me about those damn pandas, I'm like, I don't care about the damn [pandas.]3458.0532
3390DCB_se2_ag4_f_023458.3973[And that's because I'm] here with it and I see it every day and I guess I take it for granted.3462.1870
3391 3462.4832And every once in a while I'll stop3464.0636
3393 3464.2077and take-3464.6439 
3395 3464.7880you know if I'm driving downtown for something3466.7889 
3397 3467.1891um, and go that way especially at night cause DC is [beautiful at] night. The monuments and all the white stone, it's just beautiful at night.3474.5202 
3399DCB_se2_ag4_f_023474.8762And I'll stop and take a pause and3476.6610
3401 3476.7890you know.3477.0732 
3403 3477.4413Um, I l-3478.1697 
3405 3478.2657my kids love the FDR memorial.3480.4707 
3406DCB_int_013480.4185It's my favorite one.3481.4069
3409 3482.1233love it so we'll go down there-3484.0482 
3410DCB_int_013483.3598[I can sit at night] and sit in there [for hours.]3485.5609
3411DCB_se2_ag4_f_023484.8245[And just walk] through it.3486.5973
3413DCB_se2_ag4_f_023486.7011And um-3487.5851
3415 3487.8177and it gets me angry that they don't take care of it like they should.3490.7870 
3417 3491.2672Um,3491.8153 
3419 3492.0153you know FDR,3492.7717 
3421 3493.1519he should not be you know-3494.7286 
3423 3494.8847it's brass, he should not be all rusted up like that n- and- but-3498.6224 
3425 3499.3106And then they don't have all the fountains going [all the time] and that just makes me angry when they could take care of it.3504.2047 
3426DCB_int_013501.2314[All the time.]3502.0157
3427DCB_se2_ag4_f_023504.7488But um,3505.5011
3429 3505.5971well Teddy Roosevelt Island's the same way too, they [don't take care] of that one [either /over there./]3509.3382 
3432 3508.3944[Yeah no it's really] bad.3509.6944 
3434 3510.5193Um,3510.9900
3436 3511.1944<ts> but every once and a while I'll stop and I'll pause and I'll take a look you know I don't go into the Smithsonians, my kids do,3516.3029 
3438 3516.7512but I did that when I was growing up3518.5512 
3440 3518.9167and it's just like3519.6436 
3442 3520.1736again,3520.6190 
3444 3520.7063take it for granted because it's right there in my backyard and I3523.0485 
3446 3523.3110could care less about it and I don't like crowds and3525.5775 
3448 3526.0722mm-mm, I'm [sorry.]3527.1815 
3451DCB_int_013528.4120My favorite time to go is like a random just afternoon3531.0920
3452 3531.2590[like]3531.6022
3454DCB_int_013532.0818during the school- not during the summer but during like3534.2500
3456 3534.3509the school year [when kids are-]3535.5977 
3458DCB_int_013535.9511like in August or September.3537.3167
3460 3537.4126Like no school trip is in September so3539.4822 
3462 3539.7901it's not gonna be a thousand kids running around.3541.8042 
3465 3542.4100And [that's the only thing.]3543.3034 
3466DCB_int_013542.5917[You can do everything.]3543.4717
3467DCB_se2_ag4_f_023543.6493I don't like crowds.3544.5882
3469 3544.8002I stay away from crowds. And so when it's tourist season and all those3547.7431 
3471 3547.8643buses are down there and all those people are down there I stay away.3550.7694 
3472DCB_int_013550.7795Oh [mm-mm.]3551.4156
3473DCB_se2_ag4_f_023551.2137[You know] I have-3551.7163
3474 3551.9305I know certain places where I can park, I can park legally3555.2345
3476 3555.6507and3556.3978 
3478 3556.5822the-3556.7538 
3480 3556.9305near where I wanna go,3558.3489 
3482 3558.4549and those /are where/3559.4191 
3484 3559.6361you know I'll do that so I don't have to deal with the crowds.3562.2005 
3485DCB_int_013562.5867So one thing you said before we started the interview,3564.8785
3487 3565.4741is about3566.1141 
3489 3566.6048you knew /RD-NAME-1/ wasn't here and- and we were talk- you said the mannerisms.3569.9895 
3491 3570.2621What about DC and DC people is unique?3573.6569 
3493 3573.8487Like3574.0254 
3495 3574.1769that you feel-3575.0299 
3499 3579.2274what do you mean by that?3580.0607   
3500DCB_se2_ag4_f_023580.6610And you know I don't3581.7036
3502 3582.0895[even- I can't put my finger] on it, I think3584.3509 
3503DCB_int_013582.1147[You can't put your finger on it.]3583.4878
3506 3585.6155me being from DC,3587.2914 
3508 3588.3212you know3588.5745 
3510 3588.7048I'm a native- m- my mother says I'm a native Washingtonian3591.5035 
3512 3592.3066with3592.6448 
3514 3593.1345one parent from South Carolina, one parent from North Carolina,3596.1127 
3516 3596.6757um, and me living in Richmond3598.3970 
3518 3598.5080I've got a lot of Southern influence3600.5877 
3520 3600.8175within me.3601.3935 
3522 3601.6101And so3602.5994 
3524 3603.5232uh, it's just3604.6179 
3526 3606.4132I usually can tell3607.7239 
3528 3608.1497when someone- especially someone my age3611.2339 
3530 3611.6630or someone forty or over3614.0830 
3532 3614.7689I can usually tell3615.9169 
3534 3616.2378if they're from DC or not3617.4498 
3536 3617.7421or if they3618.2216 
3538 3618.5346you know migrated here from South or if they came from like the Ohio Valley here.3622.6421 
3539DCB_int_013623.5901So let me ask you about two things that are3625.6900
3541 3625.8869<clears throat> DC things.3627.3776 
3543 3627.8291Go go music?3628.5251 
3544DCB_se2_ag4_f_023629.5278So go go music was popular3631.2138
3546 3631.3855actually when I was away in college.3633.0866 
3547DCB_int_013633.6822So you didn't really get into [the go go scene?]3635.6143
3548DCB_se2_ag4_f_023634.6856[I did- I mean I knew] about it, we listen- I listened to it some but it wasn't a big thing for me just because of the timing of it and that I wasn't3641.7350
3549 3642.3345here when it was a big [thing.]3643.6652
3550DCB_int_013643.4047[When it]3643.6607