LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1DCB_int_010.2901Um, birthday.1.1248
2DCB_se3_ag4_f_011.7636Five six3.0599
4 3.2510fifty-six.4.1277 
5DCB_int_014.1556Mm.4.3795
7 5.2141I just wanted it to be kind of like,6.3181 
9 6.4253sixty seven.6.9942 
10DCB_se3_ag4_f_017.2320[<laugh>]7.7729
11DCB_int_017.3812[Sorry.]7.7496
12 7.9175Or seventy eight.8.5889
14 8.7428But then [you- Oh. <laugh>]11.0929 
15DCB_se3_ag4_f_019.0132[Me too. <laugh>]11.7457
16DCB_int_0111.3773[Um],11.7550
17 12.2353and13.0500
19 13.2460hometown?13.8522 
20DCB_se3_ag4_f_0114.0107<ts>14.1692
22 14.4304Washington, DC.15.3629 
23DCB_int_0115.5215Which neighborhood?16.1556
24DCB_se3_ag4_f_0116.8038Um,17.4752
26 17.6851<ts>17.8576 
28 17.9602I would say-19.0035 
30 19.1714I'm not real sure what it's called.20.4210 
32 20.7754I'm- I'm near Howard University.22.6546 
34 23.4799Columbia Heights24.4078 
36 24.5699is probably close.25.8522 
37DCB_int_0126.1413Mkay.26.4817
39 27.8432Um, and you've lived here29.3120 
41 29.6384pretty much all your life?30.4684 
42DCB_se3_ag4_f_0130.5186Yes I have.31.4045
43DCB_int_0132.0713Have you lived other places even for short amount of time?34.1976
44DCB_se3_ag4_f_0134.5287Um, the farthest I've gone is Silver Spring, Maryland, which is where I reside right now.38.1459
45DCB_int_0139.0832So you are like,39.8619
46DCB_se3_ag4_f_0140.1044[I am true native.]41.2887
47DCB_int_0140.1836[DC. DC.] [Okay], [so]42.4405
48DCB_se3_ag4_f_0141.3913[Yes.]41.9136
50 42.1607[<laugh>]42.7296 
51DCB_int_0142.8263Where'd you go to school?43.5677
52DCB_se3_ag4_f_0144.1319I went to /RD-SCHOOL-2/ [Elementary.]46.2815
53DCB_int_0146.1370[Mm-hm.]46.5613
54DCB_se3_ag4_f_0146.7012From there, I went to /RD-SCHOOL-7/.49.5164
55DCB_int_0149.5491Mm-hm.50.0807
56DCB_se3_ag4_f_0150.3744Um, and then I went to a couple of universities and finally ended up at the /RD-SCHOOL-8/,56.1972
57DCB_int_0156.1972Okay.56.5656
58DCB_se3_ag4_f_0156.5516which is where I got my degree.58.0158
59DCB_int_0159.4193Um,59.9835
61 60.1689and what do you currently do? What's your occupation?62.5423 
62DCB_se3_ag4_f_0162.9666I am the Director of Special Events for /RD-WORK-10/.67.5444
63DCB_int_0170.1929Um, about your parents. Is your- Was your father born here?72.9196
64DCB_se3_ag4_f_0173.3626My dad was born here- in DC, yes.75.5495
65DCB_int_0175.7593And what about mama?76.6965
66DCB_se3_ag4_f_0177.0323Mom was born in Spotsylvania County, Virginia.80.2112
68 81.0692Um, she migrated to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, which is where she grew up,85.1760 
70 85.4465and then86.0667 
72 86.7288moved to DC.87.4469 
73DCB_int_0187.6707Moved to DC. And what about your parents? What did they do for a living?90.7144
74DCB_se3_ag4_f_0191.0735My father was a um, letter carrier for the [U-] U- USPS95.4613
75DCB_int_0193.9085[Mm.]94.1556
76DCB_se3_ag4_f_0195.8902and my mom was a homemaker.97.0828
77DCB_int_0199.4003Perfect.100.0204
79 100.6079That's all the stuff I have to-101.6478 
81 101.8389to write [down, and now we] get into the-103.6237 
82DCB_se3_ag4_f_01102.2388[Okay.]102.7284
83DCB_int_01104.0527the actual104.7801
85 105.0552good pieces. So,105.9085 
87 106.1836tell me a little bit about- I know we were talking briefly about109.5025 
89 110.2159your neighborhood111.3676 
91 111.7966um- Was that last week? [When we set] this up.113.9136 
92DCB_se3_ag4_f_01113.0416[Mm-hm.]113.4193
93DCB_int_01114.1374So tell me a little bit about115.5910
95 115.8382what you remember about your [house],117.3863 
96DCB_se3_ag4_f_01117.2744[Mm-hm.]117.6987
97DCB_int_01117.7593um, your neighborhood. Growing up there, were there a lot of other [kids? Your family?]121.4092
98DCB_se3_ag4_f_01120.6072[Mm-hm.]121.0268
99 121.7496Okay.122.0387
101 122.9666I grew up123.9411 
103 124.0344um, on Lamont Street in Northwest DC,126.4311 
104DCB_int_01126.3973Mm-hm.126.7237
105DCB_se3_ag4_f_01127.0641and we lived in a row house. Um,130.2396
107 130.3981the- Lamont Street was- was nothing but row houses.132.9243 
109 133.4139There were six of us. [Actually],135.2417 
110DCB_int_01134.9526[/Huh./]135.1438
111DCB_se3_ag4_f_01135.6567well there's six- six kids.137.1675
113 137.6431Um,138.1001 
115 138.2295and my oldest sister, who is eighteen years older than me, had already moved out, and142.3282 
117 142.5567she had gotten married.143.5125 
119 144.2213Um, we had a three bedroom house.146.3640 
120DCB_int_01146.2960Hm.146.5371
121DCB_se3_ag4_f_01146.8920Um,147.4096
123 148.5147two baths. Really one that was really-150.9849 
125 151.1527that we151.5910 
127 151.8848all used, but we- The five kids of us and our parents lived in this154.9437 
129 155.0556row house.155.5359 
131 155.9835And it never seemed like it was cramped for space or anything. It f- seemed like more than enough space for all of us.160.3795 
133 160.9157Um, the neighborhood was primarily families164.2019 
135 164.4910of the same income level.166.5333 
137 166.9810Um,167.4659 
139 167.7224all African Americans.169.0500 
141 169.2413We may have had170.3045 
143 170.9200one Caucasian family,172.4960 
145 172.8178or at least one parent was Caucasian, but for the most part, it was African American.176.8594 
147 177.5401Um,178.1277 
149 178.5147lots179.0556 
151 179.3167of kids my age,180.7342 
153 181.2880um,181.8335 
155 182.0573and lots of-183.2231 
157 183.3117lots of183.9785 
159 184.4074teens that were my siblings' ages. I'm the youngest of the [six.]187.5444 
160DCB_int_01187.3439[I was] just going to ask. Okay.188.3278
161DCB_se3_ag4_f_01188.2858Yes.188.6728
162 188.7894And um,189.7873
164 190.3561so it was one of those neighborhoods where you felt safe to go out.194.0480 
166 194.1786Um, we would play195.5028 
168 195.6147until the street lights came on, and then you- you- you know, you knew it was time to- to make [your way in.]199.7729 
169DCB_int_01199.2973[/Go in./] Mm-hm.200.1786
170DCB_se3_ag4_f_01200.4257Um,200.9480
172 201.3396and202.0204 
174 203.1675it was-204.0441 
176 204.4020I mean-204.9336 
178 205.0641Y- you know- cor- We had a corner store. We would spend time up on the corner of Georgia Avenue and Lamont Street.210.3332 
180 210.9849And um,211.9921 
182 212.2112i-212.4071 
184 212.5516When I got through high school it was still kind of that way.214.9577 
186 215.4286Um, but as I got to-216.5757 
188 216.9243to the end of high school, the neighborhood started to change.219.4749 
190 220.1370Um, the ne- and-220.7805 
192 220.8877Soon people- A lot of the families, or the223.1061 
194 223.5211folks that lived there either passed away,225.8292 
195DCB_int_01225.9365Mm.226.2116
196DCB_se3_ag4_f_01226.3095um-226.7525
198 227.0789<ts>227.2654 
200 227.3447uh- whi- which was the case for most- most of the um, s-230.1133 
202 230.4630incident- situation.231.6008 
204 232.1044Um, and233.2607 
206 233.3773r-233.4939 
208 233.8063we found that there were a lot more families that were moving in that were renting the homes.238.0297 
209DCB_int_01238.1556Mm, mm-hm.238.7851
210DCB_se3_ag4_f_01238.7991And unfortunately, I think that contributed to sort of the242.8407
212 243.3909um, neighborhood244.2676 
214 244.3515not being taken care of and- and not247.1434 
216 248.0527groomed and yards weren't done like they used to be when I was growing up.251.7364 
218 252.2866Um,252.7762 
220 253.1621a lot more-254.0760 
222 254.3185The other thing about my neighborhood is256.2302 
224 256.5427right behind our house,258.4160 
226 258.8357you know, there was an alley.259.9501 
228 260.4677And on the-260.9853 
230 261.1158the other side of the alley were- was public housing.263.5825 
231DCB_int_01263.9928Mm-hm.264.2819
232DCB_se3_ag4_f_01264.2481So we had public housing like two blocks267.0086
233 267.2044away from our street.268.1790
235 268.8224Um,269.3214 
237 269.8343and a lot- I had friends in public housing, so I'm in no way saying that that was, you know,273.8153 
239 274.1883anything negative.275.0463 
241 275.4473But I just wanna kind of give you the gist of- of- of what the neighborhood278.3767 
243 278.7568started to look like,280.0391 
245 280.2489and280.8644 
247 281.3354um-281.8623 
249 282.2994You started to see a decline,284.1040 
251 284.4630like I said- Oh,285.3163 
253 285.5308the big- the big /turner/-286.8924 
255 287.0789The big um, neighborhood changer was289.2087 
257 289.5071the riots of290.6309 
259 291.0039sixty291.7360 
261 292.6499seven? Sixty eight?293.7579 
262DCB_int_01293.7457Mm-hm. I was gonna ask you about those but [tell me how] that [f- Mm-hm.]296.4583
263DCB_se3_ag4_f_01295.2600[Yeah.]295.5491
265 295.8335[Okay, so]296.7661 
266 296.8780that happened-297.8386
268 298.1183Well I've already told you how old I am, so that happened when I was in the sixth grade.301.6097 
270 302.2439And302.9526 
272 303.6987I mean, you can look at me because nobody on this s- s- s-305.9089 
274 306.1933um,306.5850 
276 307.0735tape recorder can see, but308.5469 
278 308.8407I'm very fair complected.310.2302 
279DCB_int_01310.2769Mm-hm.310.6546
280DCB_se3_ag4_f_01310.8877Everyone in my house- We are a rainbow of colors, but everybody that- All of my siblings, my parents, and all,316.5846
282 317.0696visibly African American. There was always a big question because of my fair complexion.321.2324 
284 321.9878And um,323.2095 
286 323.3214none of my friends ever324.9476 
288 325.2693made that known to- I mean, it was never an issue with any of my friendships or my family.329.4379 
290 329.6711I was just330.1793 
292 330.3461/RD-NAME-2/,330.7098 
294 330.8357just331.0735 
296 331.5164[you know],331.7822 
297DCB_int_01331.5164[Mm-hm.]331.8102
298DCB_se3_ag4_f_01331.8941on Lamont Street.332.5330
300 333.2464And um,334.3188 
302 334.5520when the riots happened,336.0954 
304 337.0082you know, there was a change, not only338.9946 
306 339.5495physically in the neighborhood because right at the corner store that we used to go to, there was looting. I mean344.1832 
308 344.5423people would- the- the- Georgia Avenue was just- All of the little neighborhood stores were destroyed.348.8648 
310 349.2833People were, you know, throwing rocks. You could see people running and looting the-353.0043 
312 353.4100the stores. It was pretty sad.354.5244 
314 354.7517Actually,355.2273 
316 355.5118for me, at that age, it was kind of exciting because I had never [seen anything like this before],359.9648 
317DCB_int_01358.6126[/Seen that- <laugh>/]359.9648
318DCB_se3_ag4_f_01360.3239and didn't even really truly understand why it was going on.362.8827
320 363.2604But as I look back on that,364.6546 
322 364.8038I- it was really a sad-366.0115 
324 366.1141it was really a sad366.9301 
326 367.1108state of affairs cause the neighborhood was never the same after that.369.4749 
328 370.0764Um, but growing up371.4193 
330 371.6198during that era,372.7389 
332 373.2040I struggled a lot with374.9340 
334 375.1158identity.375.8432 
336 376.3375You know, just trying to make sure that people knew-379.0500 
338 379.6237look, I'm an African American. We didn't even say African American /black/ then- I wa- back then.383.3727 
340 383.6897I'm black.384.3612 
341DCB_int_01384.4859Mm-hm.384.7750
342DCB_se3_ag4_f_01384.7377You know, don- don't-385.8522
343 386.3931And- and there was a heightened,387.8059
345 387.9505you know, awareness of- of race and390.5699 
347 390.9709you know, all of that that came with the- the assassination of- of Doctor Martin Luther King.394.8784 
349 395.5592And um,396.5605 
351 396.7004I- I397.2320 
353 397.9175used to- I s- From my preteens up and probably til400.7618 
355 401.2001my first years in high school was really difficult403.4045 
357 403.9128because I found that405.4749 
359 405.5635people who didn't know me treated me very differently. They assumed408.9068 
361 409.3019I was,409.9221 
363 410.0294you know, from some411.1811 
365 411.6381more affluent neighborhood or413.5918 
367 414.0581um,414.5151 
369 414.6025that I walked around thinking that I was quote unquote white.418.0624 
371 418.5520Um,419.0416 
373 419.2141and419.7410 
375 419.9509luckily I had a f- stable home. I had great friends.422.8640 
377 423.3443<clears throat> But during that time, it was just-425.0463 
379 425.6011It was really426.3367 
381 426.4673hard for me t-427.5631 
383 427.9454just to kind of429.0179 
385 429.6008um,430.1556 
387 431.1535be comfortable in my own skin.432.6445 
389 433.5025So um,434.2252 
391 434.3651anyway. So- so,435.5681 
393 436.7945backing up to the riots. Um, after all of that was over, and the neighborhoods were pretty much torn up,441.8246 
395 442.3375um,442.8597 
397 443.6291our neighborhood just went downhill.445.1714 
399 445.6004You know, there was- there was no more pride. There was no more sense of community.449.2281 
401 449.8436Um,450.3938 
403 450.6911by that time, more people had started moving in that weren't really453.9505 
405 454.3282taking care of their homes, and the neighborhood just started to go down.456.8601 
407 457.3066I- n- n- You kn- And458.4304 
409 458.8314I found also that we didn't460.5520 
411 461.1675walk the neighborhood like we [used to.]463.0082 
412DCB_int_01462.4300[/Used to./ Mm-hm.]463.2040
413DCB_se3_ag4_f_01463.2087You know what I mean? The corner store was gone.464.9853
415 465.2790We wouldn't-465.7220 
417 465.8059We were very afraid to go up on our-467.6151 
419 467.8063on Georgia and Lamont Street anymore because it was-470.4304 
421 470.9666You know, it was unsafe.471.8246 
423 472.2396[And then-]472.6825 
424DCB_int_01472.2909[Did the drugs] come in at that point?473.8855
425DCB_se3_ag4_f_01473.9229The drugs came in at that point,475.5118
427 475.5957yes.476.0154 
429 476.2625And um,477.2790 
431 477.3816a lot of people that I grew up with unfortunately,480.1047 
433 480.7284um, kind of fell into that.482.2159 
435 482.6868Um, people who are my age now are still-484.8644 
437 485.1022I know- I've know a couple that are still struggling-487.0175 
439 487.1807struggling. Never were able to kind of recover.489.2977 
441 489.9691But490.2442 
443 490.3935um,490.8504 
445 491.4939I lot of492.1654 
447 492.2866um,492.7575 
449 493.2786younger people- We used to have494.6589 
451 494.7941older guys-495.7500 
453 495.8852And I'll even include my dad on this.497.6571 
455 498.1514When my dad retired, there used to be a group of500.4967 
457 500.9853um,501.4422 
459 501.7686<ts>501.9085 
461 502.0810men on the block, fathers503.6944 
463 504.0628that used to hang up-504.9347 
465 505.1201Just- just505.6517 
467 505.8382hang up the street. You know, there- there used to be a little508.0531 
469 508.5333um-509.0463 
471 509.4379There used to be a crab house <laugh>511.2880 
473 511.7030arou- You know, on another corner, and it seemed to be sort of the hang out for all the dads.516.2679 
475 516.7704In fact, my dad ended up forming-518.6822 
477 518.9713Well, I'll tell you about that later.520.0297 
479 520.1417[But um-]520.6779 
480DCB_int_01520.1417[<laugh>]520.6779
481DCB_se3_ag4_f_01520.8271talking about the crab house.521.6664
483 522.1001So um,522.9114 
485 524.3511um,524.8407 
487 525.7919it then began where my527.6851 
489 528.1840dad would go up to the corner, and we'd worry530.0760 
491 530.2299because these young kids were coming from532.3748 
493 532.7152wherever. Either they were in public- From the public housing535.5957 
495 535.8801or the surrounding neighborhoods- It just brought-537.9971 
497 538.5147It just brought a whole different dynamic540.7482 
498DCB_int_01540.8776[/To/-]541.0641
499DCB_se3_ag4_f_01541.1341to the community.541.9827
501 542.5003And um, so my dad used to- You know, it just- i-545.2328 
503 545.7131There weren't the little groups of- of guys, men, fathers, who used to hang up at the crab house. It kind of550.7991 
505 551.2514dwindled. You know, it was just- it was just really sad how553.7403 
507 554.2905all of that um-555.3350 
509 556.0950all of that changed. Even thinking about it now, it truly is sad because then my dad559.8568 
511 560.4723you know, didn't go out as much. He stayed home more. He wasn't really an563.4892 
513 563.8296outgoing kind of guy anyways, and that was sort of his566.5936 
515 567.1811one recreational568.8131 
517 568.9810thing that he enjoyed.569.9415 
519 570.5745Um,571.0268 
521 572.7661I- I feel like I'm blabbering- blab-574.5846 
523 574.6872You [know],574.9950 
524DCB_int_01574.8504[No], I [love it.]575.6711
525DCB_se3_ag4_f_01575.3680[stumbling] all over.576.1001
526 576.5326Um, one thing that I do remember also, if I can back up about my neighborhood,580.3701
528 580.9390my da- So, there were six of us, or five girls and one boy.584.3278 
529DCB_int_01584.5563[Ooh.]585.0505
530DCB_se3_ag4_f_01584.5982[Um, me] being the youngest.585.8386
531 586.3888So, I mentioned that my oldest sister,588.4684
533 588.8077who's /like/ eighteen years older than me, had already590.9013 
535 590.9853gone to college, graduated. She married. Her husband was in the military so they traveled a lot.594.7622 
537 595.4185So it was the five of us at home, and my dad598.0857 
539 598.7152used to599.7364 
541 600.3006um,600.8135 
543 601.1248with the young men in the- in the602.8920 
545 603.1065public housing,603.9225 
547 604.3375who came from single605.4846 
549 605.6291family606.1887 
551 606.8636h- um, households. Most of them had just moms609.2324 
552DCB_int_01609.2977Mm-hm.609.6334
553DCB_se3_ag4_f_01609.6987uh, in the home.610.4308
555 610.8597He formed611.5965 
557 611.6804baseball leagues.612.6130 
559 613.0502So,613.6563 
561 613.8615even before614.8967 
563 615.4749you know, any organized- I don't know how long Little League has been around, but he used to- There was soft ball.619.6796 
565 619.9128So he would have621.0459 
567 621.5868um-622.0624 
569 622.3002He would take the guys from the public housing-624.7762 
571 625.3253Um, some of my sisters used to even play. I didn't. I was- I was always628.6825 
573 628.9437[too]-629.2561 
574DCB_int_01628.9483[You were] very girly girl.630.0814
575DCB_se3_ag4_f_01630.4591I was, [and] there was such a huge age gap that they always thought I was too young and634.2582
576DCB_int_01630.9336[Mm.]631.1434
577DCB_se3_ag4_f_01634.3468you know, all of that.635.0323
579 635.5825Um, so, um,637.0000 
581 637.3113he would638.1180 
583 638.5609form these leagues, and-640.3095 
585 640.5846and the guys would play baseball. And they actually had something to do643.9967 
586DCB_int_01644.1553[Mm.]644.5609
587DCB_se3_ag4_f_01644.3558[after] school and not just hang out in the street.646.4681
588 646.7945And he did this for years and years and years.648.5197
590 648.8450And then he did one with adult guys, like by the- when- th-651.6194 
592 651.7733By the time my652.4634 
594 652.6173um,652.9437 
596 653.7643my brother was like, in his twenties or whatever,655.8755 
598 656.4164um,656.8407 
600 657.4469he formed the crab house658.7338 
602 659.4426team.659.8063 
604 660.1527Right? You know the- the crab house sponsored their uniforms, sponsored the team.663.3130 
606 663.6628That's how the crab house got in there.664.9031 
608 665.3367Um,665.7517 
610 665.9476and so um, he did a lot in the community for these young men. In fact, when he670.6047 
612 671.2295um,671.7051 
614 672.0175got older-672.8429 
616 672.9688when he was older, these men, who had grown up into adults,676.1850 
618 676.6979honored him.677.2528 
620 677.5839They all came together and gave him this-679.6530 
622 679.9188rented a hall,680.9353 
624 681.2431invited, you know, all the guys and you know, our family,684.5724 
626 685.0900and-685.5190 
628 685.9561very nice little dinner, reception,688.3435 
630 688.6093and honored him689.5466 
632 690.0968for changing their life. I'm getting ready to cry- <laugh>692.7488 
634 693.0566for really having a positive impact,694.9963 
636 695.3974and a lot- all of them said, were it not for him,698.0401 
638 698.6183they-698.8561 
640 699.0333God only knows [where they would have ended] up. So700.9264 
641DCB_int_01699.7280[Wow.]700.3575
642DCB_se3_ag4_f_01701.1222I had to share that story about my dad.702.4139
644 702.8568Um,703.2998 
646 703.6717so that was- You know, again, that was kind of the neighborhood that we lived in.707.1875 
648 707.6072Um, my dad was a really um,710.1800 
650 711.0146family oriented kind of guy. He was um-714.3299 
652 714.6890I still believe my father in-716.1240 
654 716.5064invented Jeopardy, before Jeopardy even [happened. He used] to have-719.8310 
655DCB_int_01718.6886[<laugh>]719.1968
656DCB_se3_ag4_f_01720.2833He used to go through encyclopedias.722.2312
658 722.7022He used [to go through]-723.7607 
659DCB_int_01723.1545[Before Google.]724.0544
660 724.3249[<laugh>]726.9361
661DCB_se3_ag4_f_01724.5720[Before Google. Yeah- Wh- Like, what was that, right?]726.7636
662 727.1320And then he used to- I used to have Doctor Seuss books, so he would go through Doctor Seuss books. And we'd have family night.732.3672
664 732.8429And we would divide ourselves into teams,734.9855 
666 735.2990um, and he would have on a little piece of paper in a cigar box,738.8522 
668 739.2718um-739.6122 
670 739.8769You know, the categories would be sports, you know,742.3249 
672 742.7725um,743.0849 
674 743.8124latest news- And then I had a /RD-NAME-2/ box, which was746.9167 
676 747.3317all Doctor Seuss stuff or anything he had g-749.3227 
678 749.5745he knew that I would know answers to.751.1273 
680 751.6670And so we would have-752.6416 
682 752.7675And we had a chance to just kind of pick out of the cigar [box],755.5512 
683DCB_int_01755.4160[Mm-hm.]755.8730
684DCB_se3_ag4_f_01755.9243and he'd read the question, and we'd have to get the answer. We got points for whoever got the most.760.0218
686 760.4788And um, that was family quiz night.762.2600 
688 762.3672And so that was-763.3138 
690 763.4863<sigh> That was awesome.764.5530 
692 765.0286Um,765.5602 
694 766.1057and so, you know, life went on. And like I said, our neighborhood changed-769.9293 
696 770.2965sort of changed the dynamic of how we-772.3762 
698 772.7539Once we all773.5139 
700 773.6538grew up and moved out of the household-775.5143 
702 775.9888Um, I was one of the last777.5508 
704 777.6861um, because I just wasn't sure what I was gonna do after high school. I went to781.2718 
706 781.6391/RD-SCHOOL-9/.782.7768 
708 783.0426I graduated valedictorian in my class.785.0430 
710 785.2948I went to the /RD-SCHOOL-9/,787.0387 
712 787.5889um, was totally789.1825 
714 789.3783just like- I didn't-790.0871 
716 790.2503o- o-790.4694 
718 790.6839out of791.0849 
720 791.4113sorts. I didn't even know792.4512 
722 792.7216the p- It was so huge. I had gone to a very small Catholic private high school.796.2483 
724 796.8471And um,797.9802 
726 799.1926couldn't make it.799.8081 
728 800.1193Or didn't make it. Just didn't want- I was too insecure.802.5720 
730 803.0849Um,803.5093 
732 803.7191left there, ended up going to /RD-SCHOOL-2/ for a semester.806.9699 
734 807.4949Um, and this was all because of my older si- My parents never went to college. They both finished high school.812.2592 
736 812.8141Um, my oldest sister and myself are the only815.3274 
738 815.5885two that actually finished816.6890 
740 816.8102h- um, college817.8827 
741DCB_int_01817.8582Mm-hm.818.2033
742DCB_se3_ag4_f_01818.3525out of-818.8841
744 818.9773out of the six.819.8260 
746 820.2783And um,821.3740 
748 821.8217she was determined that I was going to go to college and finish.824.2499 
750 824.7022And825.2804 
752 825.3923so, she kept pushing me and pushing me, and I just- You know, it was easier to829.4677 
754 830.0727work830.5297 
756 830.6509um- I was doing retail, and I thought I was gonna be a model. You know, I had all of this whole834.7403 
758 835.4024you know, pie in the sky idea of what my life was really [gonna be like, and]838.6746 
759DCB_int_01837.8073[<laugh>]838.6513
760DCB_se3_ag4_f_01838.9963she's telling me, go back to school. Go back to school. And then finally she says, well look, you know-842.9167
762 843.5742/RD-SCHOOL-3/ had just been formed. It used to be um,846.7449 
764 846.9268/RD-SCHOOL-6/,848.3991 
766 848.8934/RD-SCHOOL-10/,851.1129 
768 851.2108and /RD-SCHOOL-7/.852.4698 
769DCB_int_01852.4978Mm-hm.852.8568
770DCB_se3_ag4_f_01852.8848Well, you know, they all merged together and formed the /RD-SCHOOL-8/, so it was a new concept-857.7331
772 857.8450new-858.1854 
774 858.9408[You know, just kind of]-859.7661 
775DCB_int_01858.9443[This is the /RD-SCHOOL-2/] campus? [The-]860.5110
776DCB_se3_ag4_f_01860.2639[This is-860.8607
777 861.1219Well,861.4389
779 861.6068a-861.7327 
781 861.9612s-862.1244 
783 862.3995/RD-SCHOOL-2/ campus w- didn't really exist.864.8522 
785 864.9454/RD-SCHOOL-9/ had867.1825 
787 867.4296property on Connecticut Avenue.869.0803 
788DCB_int_01869.1409Okay.869.5156
789DCB_se3_ag4_f_01869.8030Um,870.2786
791 870.5258so, when it first started,872.4317 
793 872.8421we had873.6394 
795 873.9225uh- My classrooms-875.0696 
797 875.1908u-875.3120 
799 875.5312/RD-SCHOOL-6/- which was a very historically um, black879.3769 
801 879.6940one o- you know,880.2069 
803 880.3748institution-881.1582 
805 881.6338Um, was where most of African Americans went884.0200 
807 884.3977for college and came out in the education887.0183 
809 887.6245um-887.9136 
811 888.2353as an education career teachers.889.8195 
813 890.4583And, so they had891.9645 
815 892.1230buildings near /RD-SCHOOL-7/.894.0581 
816DCB_int_01894.2679[Okay.]894.6305
817DCB_se3_ag4_f_01894.4253[So their] buildings there-895.5771
818 895.8988There were buildings on Connecticut Avenue where the /RD-SCHOOL-2/ campus is now that was part of /RD-SCHOOL-9/,901.5258
819DCB_int_01901.5164Oh, okay.902.0107
820DCB_se3_ag4_f_01902.0294and then /RD-SCHOOL-7/,903.7267
822 904.1463which was, um-905.5079 
824 905.8203<ts>905.8996 
826 906.3845I always call it- It was like a militant college, and it was where people who were909.6894 
828 910.0297getting back into the Afrocentric911.9182 
829DCB_int_01912.1001Mm, [mm-mm.]912.7855
830DCB_se3_ag4_f_01912.3146[kind of]912.9161
831 913.1947ways, and [it was the sixties and seventies.] [Yeah, so, it was]917.1861
832DCB_int_01914.2718[/this was the/ seventies- seven-]915.8199
834 916.0670[Yeah, okay.]917.0975 
835DCB_se3_ag4_f_01917.4752you know, Black Power. It was the Black Panthers. It was kind of that era.920.9293
837 921.3629And-921.8992 
839 921.9924But922.4541 
841 922.5800these were people who wanted to be educated, and most of their buildings925.9314 
843 926.2718were downtown near um,927.9598 
845 928.5240like um, Second930.0803 
847 930.2994and um,931.4418 
849 932.6728where that new Walmart is,933.8992 
851 934.0344[down in Northeast.]935.1255 
852DCB_int_01934.0344[Mm-hm. Mm.]934.7665
853 935.2934Oh.935.5452
855 935.7830[/N- Northea-/] like Eighth Street? [that's-]937.7123 
856DCB_se3_ag4_f_01936.1735[Um],936.5093
858 937.3486[Eighth] Street. [Yeah. I don't know why I couldn't think]- yeah.939.0412 
859DCB_int_01938.0200[/Down in that way-/ Okay.]938.8733
860DCB_se3_ag4_f_01939.1438Yeah yeah yeah.939.5495
862 940.0624And um, so when /RD-SCHOOL-3/ was formed, we had all of those buildings, and it really depended on what your major was,946.9483 
863DCB_int_01946.9716Where you were.947.5156
864DCB_se3_ag4_f_01947.4519where you actually went. So I had classes in old DC949.8941
865 950.1319teacher's buildings near /RD-SCHOOL-2/.951.5075
867 951.8292I had 'em downtown. I had some on Connecticut Avenue.954.4498 
869 955.0362Um,955.5351 
871 955.8382and956.3977 
873 956.5190u- what I-957.2930 
875 957.7826When I look back on it,959.1675 
877 959.6979I think that was960.5512 
879 960.7750the best college experience962.5469 
881 962.8594I could have had963.6054 
883 963.7033at that time in my life964.9064 
885 965.2607because by the time I f- I really-966.9662 
887 967.2507My sister kept saying, just take classes. Just take classes. Just- just- don't totally not go.971.0742 
889 971.4379Just take a class a semester and just see.973.2460 
891 973.8289And-974.2485 
893 974.3418and I ended up doing that, taking a class here, and then I took a couple classes while I was still working.978.8912 
895 979.2507Another couple classes, and eventually I looked and said, well man,982.2302 
897 982.6919I'm almost- [I- I can like],984.4125 
898DCB_int_01983.3680[Done. <laugh>]984.3892
899DCB_se3_ag4_f_01984.6585maybe graduate. You know.985.8895
901 986.3511And um,986.9759 
903 987.2184<ts>987.3490 
905 988.0297what I loved about /RD-SCHOOL-3/ at the time is that it was991.3905 
907 991.8848not your typical straight out of high school student.994.4774 
909 995.1209They were- It w- It was people coming back997.7496 
911 998.0247to try and999.2324 
913 999.6381better themselves1000.7478 
915 1001.0369to1001.5125 
917 1001.6198you know, get some- more education so they could go out and get better jobs.1005.1838 
919 1005.4189So it was an older-1006.6126 
921 1006.9810Probably, I wanna say the average- And I'm guessing, but1009.6517 
923 1010.0620the average student was probably around-1012.5800 
925 1013.2514Freshman,1013.8902 
927 1014.2353was about1014.8869 
929 1015.1854twenty one.1015.8615 
930DCB_int_011016.4071[Mm-hm.]1016.9899
931DCB_se3_ag4_f_011016.6682[You know what I] mean?1017.2324
932DCB_int_011017.2744Mm-hm.1017.6800
933DCB_se3_ag4_f_011017.7406Um, twenty two maybe.1018.9577
935 1019.1442And I met tons of great people, tons of great people.1022.3418 
937 1022.7101And it was just a very1023.9924 
939 1024.2302different mix. You know? It wasn't your typical-1026.6958 
941 1027.0408Sometimes I miss out on- I w- I kind of miss not having the typical college experience. You know, the campus life1032.5057 
943 1032.7471like my kids have had.1033.6796 
945 1034.1366Um, but1034.7614 
947 1035.2417it was for me- uh, that was the right place for me because I was w- around more people like me1040.6495 
949 1040.9573trying to-1041.6800 
951 1041.9178had already finished school- was already1043.4752 
953 1044.0301in the work place, and just trying to1045.9501 
955 1046.6589really get my degree so that I could go off and do something,1049.1815 
957 1049.7457you know,1049.9742 
959 1050.1980something better.1050.8275 
961 1051.1434I ended up majoring in C- majoring in Computer Information Systems Science,1054.5333 
963 1055.0789and um,1056.0161 
965 1056.2633came out, interviewed with /RD-WORK-3/ and got a job. And was working there- worked there for eighteen years.1060.5739 
967 1060.9763And then decided to do a chan- Well,1062.5151 
969 1064.1553lots of things happened that made me1065.7826 
971 1066.3095you know,1066.6033 
973 1067.3400um, change careers. But1068.5244 
975 1068.9662you know, had I not-1070.2252 
977 1070.6589had my path not gone in that direction,1072.6313 
979 1072.9623I don't know where- you know, what my1074.1467 
981 1074.4498life would have been at this point.1075.6377 
983 1076.3604So,1076.6775 
985 1076.9153okay.1077.2650 
987 1077.8759I-1078.0484 
989 1078.2629Do I need to bring it back to [/unintelligible/- <laugh> /So I-/]1081.2227 
990DCB_int_011079.7072[No, that's great. The whole-]1081.2273
991 1081.4791The thing is- I- You know,1082.9946
993 1083.4236you experienced-1085.0183 
995 1085.4566You've grown up here.1086.3425 
996DCB_se3_ag4_f_011086.5244[Mm-hm.]1086.9662
997DCB_int_011086.6212[You said the] farthest you've lived is Silver Spring, and [that's]1088.9899
998DCB_se3_ag4_f_011088.8267[Right.]1089.2557
999DCB_int_011089.1624[fifteen] minutes.1090.2209
1000DCB_se3_ag4_f_011090.0997[Right.]1090.5427
1001DCB_int_011090.4401[And] so1090.8737
1002 1091.3680when we talk about someone- a DC [native- Like], your experience-1094.8267
1003DCB_se3_ag4_f_011093.4045[Mm-hm.]1093.9175
1004DCB_int_011095.0832One thing that I do wanna follow up on1097.1022
1006 1097.4240is kind of going back to the riots for a [minute?]1099.7263 
1007DCB_se3_ag4_f_011099.5164[Uh-huh.]1099.9268
1008DCB_int_011100.7381Because you were close enough to U Street,1102.4634
1009DCB_se3_ag4_f_011102.7665[Yes.]1103.2561
1010DCB_int_011102.9157[and like]1103.2607
1011 1103.4240Ben's Chili Bowl, and how that was [so /histor-/] Do you remember like, kind of1106.9759
1012DCB_se3_ag4_f_011105.0455[Mm-hm.]1105.4978
1013DCB_int_011107.2650like,1107.5448
1015 1107.8153Ben's being that landmark, and then U Street- How it was different, I wanna ask that question, and I [wanna ask] about Doctor King-1113.3210 
1016DCB_se3_ag4_f_011112.1319[Okay.]1112.5096
1017DCB_int_011113.5541going back- after [you finish] that.1114.6033
1018DCB_se3_ag4_f_011114.0904[Okay.]1114.4494
1019 1114.9856Well U Street used to be, um- w- u- where- how I remember it,1119.0738
1021 1119.6054there used to be the Lincoln Theater. We used to go there1121.6804 
1023 1121.8016to the movies1122.6876 
1025 1122.9149on U Street.1123.5491 
1027 1123.8009Ben's Chili Bowl, absolutely remember Ben's. I mean,1126.2396 
1029 1126.5147you had to go to- If you were on U Street, you had to go to Ben's. You had to get a chili dog. Whether you liked chili dogs or not,1130.9759 
1031 1131.2371you had to go in there in that crowded place-1132.8877 
1033 1133.1069crowded little small spot,1134.4125 
1035 1134.7890and get- B- Sometimes we even took the1136.5003 
1037 1136.6169bus1137.0832 
1039 1137.3723just to go to Ben's to get a chili dog.1138.9670 
1041 1139.5359So um-1140.3052 
1043 1140.4253So U Street was more1142.4910 
1045 1143.3769African Americans.1144.3841 
1047 1144.5333You know, it was um,1146.0628 
1049 1147.1387i- i- i-1147.6470 
1051 1147.8848i- th-1148.1086 
1053 1148.3278<sigh>1148.6682 
1055 1149.1531When I was younger,1150.4214 
1057 1150.5520it was a lot1151.4426 
1059 1152.1374safer to go down. [As I] got a little older, /and when/- I mean like,1155.3863 
1060DCB_int_011153.3626[/Mm-hm./]1153.5957
1061DCB_se3_ag4_f_011155.7173teens,1156.3188
1063 1156.8364um, the neighborhood started to change. It started to be1159.4512 
1065 1159.7962prostitution- U Street started to get- be known for1162.6919 
1067 1162.7991the area where prostitutes were.1164.6083 
1069 1165.3159And um,1166.3604 
1071 1166.7241Florida Avenue, [U Street], Fourteenth and U, all of- You know, all of that used to be kind of1170.8182 
1072DCB_int_011167.8899[Mm-hm.]1168.3375
1073DCB_se3_ag4_f_011171.0875the red light zone.1172.0060
1075 1172.5749And um,1173.5028 
1077 1173.8013so we didn't go down as much.1175.3960 
1079 1176.0301After the riots- After everything seemed to be torn up- I don't know how Ben's specifically was affected,1181.4193 
1081 1181.9042but the movie theaters like you know, the Lincoln and all th- They were-1184.5469 
1083 1184.8267They were gone.1185.3490 
1085 1185.8432Um,1186.2582 
1087 1186.6266the Howard Theater I remember because of my sister.1189.6796 
1089 1190.2299Um,1190.5982 
1091 1190.9200e-1191.0412 
1093 1191.1531we used to go to you know, concerts or shows down there, but1194.6083 
1095 1194.9895once again, after the riots, it just wasn't the same.1197.5588 
1097 1197.9411And for me, as I- as I mentioned before,1200.1234 
1099 1200.3973looking the way I did, I didn't feel comfortable1202.5982 
1101 1203.0972going down- Cause it- it was so heightened. I mean, racial things were so heightened.1206.8403 
1103 1207.1994I can remember1208.2019 
1105 1208.6589my very first1209.7267 
1107 1209.8059summer job, believe it or not, was working with the /RD-WORK-5/1213.1714 
1109 1213.3346/RD-WORK-4/.1214.3138 
1110DCB_int_011215.1158[/Wow/ which one?]1215.8153
1111DCB_se3_ag4_f_011215.1205[And-]1215.7546
1112 1215.9225I was thirteen.1216.7199
1114 1217.0882Um, I actually worked-1218.6876 
1116 1218.9895It was number two.1219.6657 
1117DCB_int_011219.9268Mm, [mm-mm.]1220.4723
1118DCB_se3_ag4_f_011220.3604[I] actually wor- It- But it was a different [location.]1223.2048
1119DCB_int_011222.7059[/Cation/. Okay.]1223.3727
1120DCB_se3_ag4_f_011223.7457Um,1224.1467
1122 1224.3600and I actually worked in the-1225.9361 
1124 1226.4117i- For lack of a better term, like a headquarters.1228.5380 
1126 1228.9017The- W- I w- I used to um,1230.7377 
1128 1231.6423um,1232.0760 
1130 1232.4630help with the payroll and- and1234.8084 
1132 1235.3260the club1235.8343 
1134 1235.9788directors used to come and pick up their pay for summer workers. You know, that kind of thing.1239.4702 
1136 1239.7779So I worked in the- in the1241.1162 
1138 1241.3913headquarters-1242.2073 
1140 1242.3134a- i- And I say that loosely, cause we were just1244.0620 
1142 1244.3744plopped down in- inside of the club-1246.0531 
1144 1246.6079Um,1247.0789 
1146 1247.5872for all the summer employees.1249.2460 
1148 1249.4931So if there were any issues- anything like that, they came over to where we were.1252.9903 
1150 1253.4939I didn't handle any of that. I was j- It was all clerical. It was all-1256.2578 
1152 1256.4164I was thirteen.1257.1578 
1153DCB_int_011257.3909[/Right./ <laugh>]1258.5802
1154DCB_se3_ag4_f_011257.4422[So you know, it wasn't like I did a] whole lot.1259.0789
1155 1259.6011And then, um,1260.7995
1157 1262.1133um-1262.5796 
1159 1263.0925I mentioned that for a reason, and now that thought just went out of my head.1266.2913 
1161 1266.8310[But-]1267.1854 
1162DCB_int_011266.9056[Because you were] talking about racial [tensions?]1268.3791
1163DCB_se3_ag4_f_011268.2345[Yes.] [Yes] yes yes.1269.4469
1164DCB_int_011268.5050[Mm-hm.]1268.9340
1165DCB_se3_ag4_f_011269.7453So1270.2536
1167 1270.3795I used to- uh- So during that time,1272.5524 
1169 1273.1387um,1273.6237 
1171 1274.4677my hair was-1275.0552 
1173 1275.2137was long.1275.7919 
1175 1275.9971I mean, it was like,1276.5427 
1177 1277.0929past my shoulder right? It was long.1278.7424 
1179 1279.3859And um,1280.4024 
1181 1280.5050I wanted to get an- I wanted to have an afro.1282.4634 
1183 1282.7711Right?1282.9950 
1185 1283.4333My hair was always curly enough that if it was cut short, it would have been an afro /fright/.1287.1624 
1187 1287.3490You b- You leave me in this room long enough, it's gonna be [an afro. <laugh>]1290.2913 
1188DCB_int_011289.1349[Yep. <laugh>]1291.0327
1189DCB_se3_ag4_f_011290.6258[But anyway], um,1291.6470
1190 1292.2578so1292.7288
1192 1293.0086I- I was d- I figured- You know, I thought, if I just could get an afro, that'd help me out. People would know, you know-1298.2858 
1194 1298.8314It's amazing. Um, at thirteen, you know, that's kind of1301.5032 
1196 1302.2586what my mindset was.1303.3812 
1198 1303.7356So my sister one day, took and she- <laugh> I'll never forget. She wet my hair.1308.1782 
1200 1308.5046She rolled it up on those little sponge rollers, and after it1311.0365 
1202 1311.4282dried,1311.9458 
1204 1312.0484it was- it was like, really curly-1313.5452 
1206 1313.7923She1314.0022 
1208 1314.2668teased it up. She's-1315.3788 
1210 1315.5677had hair pins stuck- So I had this big1317.7640 
1212 1317.9924mop,1318.4214 
1214 1318.9950which- which resembled1320.4486 
1216 1320.5699in my mind, an afro.1321.9128 
1218 1322.2905I-1322.4723 
1220 1322.7661The pictures-1323.5728 
1222 1323.8572I am so embarrassed, and [I look so]1325.9462 
1223DCB_int_011325.2095[<laugh>]1326.0022
1224DCB_se3_ag4_f_011326.3647awful, it's just ridiculous. Oh my gosh.1328.7801
1226 1329.3070But anyway, so- so I1330.6546 
1228 1331.2747found myself trying to just prove-1333.7869 
1230 1334.2205Because I still had to live in this neighborhood. I mean I still-1336.6779 
1232 1336.8318This was still my community.1338.1141 
1234 1338.2819It [was still]1339.1248 
1235DCB_int_011338.4067[Mm.]1338.8080
1236DCB_se3_ag4_f_011339.9128you know, where I lived, where I went to school, where I1342.2023
1238 1342.4447shopped, where I- You know,1343.7783 
1240 1344.2493where my friends were and all of that. Bu- and- and all of this pressure I put on [myself.] It's not like,1348.8970 
1241DCB_int_011347.9858[self]1348.3245
1242DCB_se3_ag4_f_011349.3493I necessarily had1350.5151
1244 1351.7263people, you know,1352.7894 
1246 1353.1112picking1353.5448 
1248 1353.6334fights with me or anything. I ha- I did have a couple of incidents.1356.6270 
1250 1356.9522Not necessarily picking fights, but just kind of1359.3023 
1252 1359.8432you know, giving me a-1360.6872 
1254 1361.0789a hard time1361.8156 
1256 1362.0861because of-1362.6714 
1258 1362.7937of how I looked.1363.4791 
1260 1363.5584But1363.7216 
1262 1364.4024um-1364.7008 
1264 1364.9433But again, it was the pressure I was putting on myself,1366.9204 
1266 1367.0975and I can remember, clear as day, riding the day the bus down to that1369.9827 
1268 1370.5796summer job, looking like a fool, thinking that I was looking1373.8063 
1270 1374.5093you know-1374.8916 
1271DCB_int_011375.6983Just doing it.1376.5469
1272DCB_se3_ag4_f_011376.5749Just doing it.1377.1764
1274 1377.8246So yeah, so, um,1379.1861 
1276 1380.8590um,1381.3159 
1278 1381.4418okay. So,1382.2812 
1280 1382.8454so that was-1383.9085 
1282 1384.0204<clears throat>1384.4214 
1284 1385.3027Yeah, I've totally lost-1386.4218 
1285DCB_int_011386.6864Mm-mm. So I think my second question is because- In a city-1389.8292
1287 1390.1743Two-1390.3981 
1289 1390.5893I guess it's two parts,1391.5592 
1290DCB_se3_ag4_f_011391.6571[Mm-hm.]1392.0068
1291DCB_int_011391.8156[But],1392.0161
1292 1392.1933this used to be Chocolate City, right? [And now] we see that it's a-1395.3396
1293DCB_se3_ag4_f_011393.5071[Right.]1393.9454
1294DCB_int_011395.9971One person put it as a swirl1397.7064
1295DCB_se3_ag4_f_011397.9322[Mm-hm.]1398.3938
1296DCB_int_011398.0721[moving toward] vanilla.1399.0500
1297DCB_se3_ag4_f_011399.1947<laugh>1399.6284
1298DCB_int_011399.6050Um,1400.3977
1299 1400.6402<clears throat> with the swirl part running out.1402.7898
1300DCB_se3_ag4_f_011402.9110Right.1403.4146
1301DCB_int_011403.4240Um,1403.9369
1303 1404.0954do you feel like-1405.1527 
1305 1406.3138I- I think1406.8687 
1307 1407.1438sort of, you had to justify your [blackness in-] in the time when1411.4885 
1308DCB_se3_ag4_f_011409.1535[Yes.]1409.7317
1309DCB_int_011412.3278being black- But do you ever feel like you-1413.7779
1311 1414.0624your-1414.3981 
1313 1414.5193your ide- The way you looked helped you? Like,1417.0828 
1315 1417.5910in a th- When there was so-1418.8547 
1317 1419.0832so much racial tension and racially charged where you kind of got-1422.4591 
1319 1423.1760kind of a pass because you looked white?1424.9853 
1320DCB_se3_ag4_f_011425.1438<ts>1425.3210
1322 1425.8246You know,1426.3515 
1324 1426.9250um, my- my first answer would be no1429.5164 
1325DCB_int_011429.9734[Mm.]1430.2578
1326DCB_se3_ag4_f_011429.9827[because] I didn't tr- I was very1432.2536
1327 1433.0369um,1433.3866
1329 1433.5265insecure-1434.4265 
1331 1434.9243I lacked a lot of confidence during that time, and I only wanted to be around people1438.7292 
1333 1438.8877that I knew and felt comfortable with. I never really1441.5864 
1335 1442.1319ventured out1443.2417 
1337 1444.0810of- of my comfort zone.1445.6424 
1339 1446.0628So,1446.6130 
1341 1447.9175I can imagine-1448.9899 
1343 1449.3723It- it became1450.4960 
1345 1450.8131what I'll call1451.6664 
1347 1452.4440um-1452.8869 
1349 1453.7309And I hate to use the word advantage, but1455.3256 
1351 1455.4982honestly,1456.0950 
1353 1456.2722that's h-1456.5427 
1355 1456.7898When I started-1457.6524 
1357 1458.3507As I got older1459.3486 
1359 1459.8755and started going into the professional world, um,1462.6452 
1361 1462.9856like when I first started1464.1327 
1363 1464.4813working um,1465.6563 
1365 1465.8149in retail, I went out to White Flint Mall, which is now [closed. God.]1469.5219 
1366DCB_int_011468.8784[Mm-hm.]1469.4426
1367DCB_se3_ag4_f_011470.1793But um-1470.8869
1368DCB_int_011470.8776Lord and Taylor's still there.1471.9081
1369DCB_se3_ag4_f_011471.9128Lord and Taylor is still [there.]1473.0878
1370DCB_int_011472.8594[It's] ho- [it's hanging on.]1473.9411
1371DCB_se3_ag4_f_011473.4096[It's holding] on, [man, it's holding] on.1475.1815
1372DCB_int_011474.2396[It's- Mm.]1474.9204
1373DCB_se3_ag4_f_011475.6664And um, so I went out there because I wanted to be in the- kind of that environment. I didn't wanna- I wanted to be on the high end of1481.4333
1375 1481.5638fashion, whatever.1482.5011 
1377 1483.0502And1483.5025 
1379 1483.6796I believe- A lot of people didn't know I was black when I interviewed for that job. They had one young lady f- [tell] me1488.6876 
1381 1489.0595eventually-1489.7822 
1382DCB_int_011490.8687We are, but come on [in if you need] to warm up your-1492.8644
1383DCB_se3_ag4_f_011493.7492Um,1494.0010
1385 1494.1595telling me eventually1495.4232 
1387 1495.8475[after I worked] there for awhile, that she should I was Jewish.1498.8364 
1389 1499.7877And I was like, no, I'm not Jewish, you [know. I'm]1502.0807 
1390DCB_int_011501.6097[<laugh>]1502.4071
1391DCB_se3_ag4_f_011502.3837African American (whispered). And they were like, <gasp> really?1504.8597
1392 1505.2747It looks so great on you.1506.6689
1394 1507.5006Oh.1507.6941 
1396 1508.2577Okay.1508.7390 
1398 1508.8452[Thanks],1509.3582 
1400 1509.4607I [think.]1509.9783 
1402 1510.1205Right?1510.3793 
1403DCB_int_011510.3770Right.1510.5962
1404DCB_se3_ag4_f_011511.2251Um,1511.6051
1406 1511.7217[so]1512.3302 
1408 1513.2861like I said, I-1514.0292 
1410 1514.1085I-1514.3253 
1412 1514.7333As a young person,1516.0389 
1414 1516.3280I could see no benefit in it.1517.6331 
1416 1517.7310I- I just could not-1518.9760 
1418 1519.7594It was almost like, why am I- Why?1521.7755 
1420 1522.3339Out of all my-1523.0566 
1422 1523.3550And if you were to meet my siblings,1525.0745 
1424 1525.2517there would be no-1525.8579 
1426 1526.8324no mistake1527.6904 
1428 1527.8210[about]1528.2126 
1429DCB_int_011527.8256[Mm-hm.]1528.2406
1430DCB_se3_ag4_f_011528.3385their ethnicity.1529.0566
1432 1529.4576Um, my mom was fair skinned.1531.1398 
1434 1531.5548My dad was brown skinned,1532.6086 
1436 1532.7392but she-1533.3005 
1438 1533.7277A- And I guess, you know,1534.7069 
1440 1535.1872when she was young,1536.0964 
1442 1536.2503I think she had to go through1537.2750 
1444 1537.4848similar things as I [did. And-]1538.8464 
1445DCB_int_011538.4454[Probably even] more so.1539.4386
1446DCB_se3_ag4_f_011539.4479Exactly.1540.1940
1448 1540.5064Um,1540.9494 
1450 1541.3457and I think1542.2223 
1452 1543.2424she um-1544.2962 
1454 1544.4687And it's funny because1545.7184 
1456 1545.8956in her1546.3712 
1458 1546.6136family,1547.1499 
1460 1547.7001there were1548.3343 
1462 1548.5114five kids,1549.3776 
1464 1549.7879one boy.1550.2589 
1466 1551.0283She was sort of the middle,1552.2126 
1468 1552.5624but she was also the most1554.2830 
1470 1554.9300um, fair skinned out of [her siblings.]1557.0283 
1471DCB_int_011556.3335[Mm-hm. Mm-hm.]1557.1542
1472DCB_se3_ag4_f_011557.3220So she- And we never really talked about that cause she never wanted me to feel different.1561.5921
1474 1561.7040You know what I mean? She never wanted me to1563.3966 
1476 1564.2080um-1564.7209 
1478 1566.1897She didn't wanna acknowledge my fear or my- my1568.8651 
1480 1569.5225discomfort with1570.6463 
1482 1571.5602you know, my physical1572.4835 
1484 1572.6688[appearance], so we never really1574.1283 
1485DCB_int_011572.8880[/pearance/]1573.4781
1486DCB_se3_ag4_f_011574.7531talked about it.1575.4013
1488 1575.5878And um,1576.4318 
1490 1577.4017yeah,1577.6628 
1492 1577.9519so.1578.3063 
1493DCB_int_011578.7668So let's move away from [that for a] minute.1580.4294
1494DCB_se3_ag4_f_011579.6993[Okay.]1580.1423
1495 1580.4827Alright.1580.7485
1496DCB_int_011580.7345Um,1581.3174
1497 1581.5785because I think-1582.4038
1499 1582.9867I- I think-1583.8493 
1501 1584.1944Cause I will come back to that when we talk about kind of gentrification and how now the city is, so [we'll- we'll] come back to [that.]1589.8680 
1502DCB_se3_ag4_f_011588.8188[Right.]1589.2804
1504 1589.6675[Okay.]1590.0638 
1505DCB_int_011590.1571But let's talk about like, high school,1592.0071
1506DCB_se3_ag4_f_011591.9744[Mm-hm.]1592.4734
1507DCB_int_011592.5526um, and your friends. So,1594.7256
1509 1595.1918who'd you hang out with? What'd y'all do?1597.1911 
1510DCB_se3_ag4_f_011597.2610Okay.1597.6807
1511DCB_int_011598.0257Kind of, who was1598.5666
1513 1598.7625/RD-NAME-2/ in high school?1599.8676 
1514DCB_se3_ag4_f_011600.1940Okay.1600.5484
1516 1600.8515So,1601.2991 
1518 1602.3762I1602.8518 
1520 1603.1211went to DC public schools through the sixth grade,1605.0749 
1521DCB_int_011605.2428Mm-hm.1605.5645
1522DCB_se3_ag4_f_011605.8443and then, my mom didn't wanna put me in the regular1608.9020
1524 1609.0465um-1609.3216 
1526 1610.1470junior high1610.7765 
1528 1610.9630it was called-1611.6018 
1530 1611.9655which was then /RD-SCHOOL-3/1613.4949 
1532 1613.6348Junior High, [which is] now1614.8227 
1533DCB_int_011614.2084[Mm-hm.]1614.5441
1534DCB_se3_ag4_f_011615.1118uh, a1615.5082
1536 1615.6667Gifted and Talented1616.5946 
1538 1616.9583[place. Right?] Yeah.1617.9702 
1539DCB_int_011616.9676[Right, now it's like-]1617.7324
1540DCB_se3_ag4_f_011618.2919[Totally different.]1619.0473
1542 1619.3877Um,1619.7840 
1544 1619.9939and so, she um-1622.1272 
1546 1622.9676We grew up Catholic.1624.5950 
1548 1624.7162Um, my mother was Baptist. My father was Catholic. So we all went to Catholic church. We went through the whole,1629.5785 
1550 1630.0774[you know]-1630.4458 
1552 1631.2058the whole Catholic1632.0358 
1554 1632.7026thing.1633.0803 
1556 1633.7226And [um], [so]1635.2474 
1558 1635.9702we belonged [to Sacred] [Heart] Catholic [Church] on [Sixteenth] and Park Road.1638.9031 
1559DCB_int_011637.9426[Mm-hm.]1638.2783
1560DCB_se3_ag4_f_011639.4569And um, she went up there and spoke to the priest and said, I wanna enroll,1643.2525
1562 1643.3877you know, my daughter in this thing. And1645.0057 
1564 1645.4569Father /RD-NAME-2/, I'll never forg- he's- he's sort of an institution in- in DC as well. He's since passed, but1650.1524 
1566 1650.6980um, he went over to the school with my mother.1652.7531 
1568 1653.4852Um, he was a- he was a Caucasian man. He was a white man.1655.8540 
1570 1656.3669And1656.8425 
1572 1657.0652he went into the office, and he says,1658.6785 
1574 1658.9956this is my cousin,1659.9375 
1576 1660.5903and she wants-1661.4157 
1578 1661.6255she wants her daughter,1662.8099 
1580 1663.0745/RD-NAME-2/,1663.4196 
1582 1663.5548to attend this school.1664.6039 
1583DCB_int_011664.7905[<laugh>]1665.4992
1584DCB_se3_ag4_f_011665.1728[And they said], okay.1666.0867
1585 1666.6976I mean, [I didn't have to go] through any1668.2876
1587 1668.5114hoops, any n- any1669.9605 
1589 1670.5387[application process], nothing.1672.3199 
1591 1672.4831I mean, he just went in there and said, this is my cousin. And they knew we were not his cousin.1675.9371 
1593 1676.3335[But]1676.7065 
1595 1676.8977he was [so] well respected1678.4971 
1596DCB_int_011678.6603[<laugh>]1679.4716
1597DCB_se3_ag4_f_011678.6696[/that that's all-/]1679.3224
1598 1679.8400And1680.2550
1600 1680.6409[I-]1680.9206 
1602 1681.6807I wasn't happy cause all my friends1683.6997 
1604 1683.8210were going to1684.6883 
1606 1684.8421the junior high school.1685.6721 
1608 1686.2550So once again, I'm feeling1687.9698 
1610 1688.1470different and,1689.1215 
1612 1689.3127now I have to go to Catholic school. Now I have to go to a [/inaudible/.]1691.6500 
1613DCB_int_011691.2665[And you] the priest's cousin. <laugh>1693.1025
1614DCB_se3_ag4_f_011693.6527So, we end [up]-1695.2334
1615DCB_int_011694.8651[<laugh>]1695.7790
1616DCB_se3_ag4_f_011695.6531[So], my seventh grade- which is really kind of a vulnerable- vulnerable time. [Cause you're] seventh grade- You know, you're d- what? Twelve? Eleven? I don't even know.1702.5530
1617DCB_int_011699.6480[Mm.]1699.8672
1618DCB_se3_ag4_f_011703.3737U- Looking-1704.0590
1620 1705.0978Okay, so.1705.9418 
1622 1706.0864I go to- go to Catholic school, so1707.9562 
1624 1708.4411the first couple of days, we could wear1710.4497 
1626 1710.5662our regular clothes. Now back then,1712.1470 
1628 1712.3335school was-1713.2567 
1630 1713.5692You- Girls didn't wear pants.1714.8188 
1632 1714.9494You wore- You wore a dress or a skirt.1716.4648 
1634 1716.9812And um,1718.0024 
1636 1718.5340so we- you know, we1719.5132 
1638 1719.6904go- First couple of days we could wear regular clothes, and then the-1722.0498 
1640 1722.1990the next week,1723.1223 
1642 1723.2517we had to wear our uniforms.1724.6459 
1644 1725.2801So,1725.8536 
1646 1726.1520one- my1726.9494 
1648 1727.4716first enco- The first horrible encounter I had at this school was with1731.1169 
1650 1731.2428a nun.1731.7976 
1652 1732.1287Sister /RD-NAME-2/, she had to be the meanest woman that I've ever met in my entire life,1735.6897 
1654 1735.7879okay?1736.1330 
1656 1736.7718Um,1737.1681 
1658 1737.4479she was the eighth grade teacher. The way the school was organized, there was1740.6980 
1660 1740.9253one seventh grade,1742.1936 
1662 1742.6412one eighth grade,1743.8909 
1664 1744.2733one- one class-1745.3177 
1666 1745.7747And the- and the school1746.7306 
1668 1746.9719um-1747.3962 
1670 1747.5361It was the gr- /RD-SCHOOL-5/. It was from first to eighth grade.1750.5763 
1671DCB_int_011750.7675Mm.1751.0893
1672DCB_se3_ag4_f_011751.1266So most people there started at first grade, so they all [knew each other.]1754.6039
1673DCB_int_011753.9931[Knew each] other.1754.8651
1674DCB_se3_ag4_f_011755.0143So boom! Here I come in the middle in seventh grade.1757.5602
1676 1758.1011Um,1758.5767 
1678 1758.9684and1759.5221 
1680 1760.8091so1761.2474 
1682 1761.5645my seventh grade teacher was very nice, Sister /RD-NAME-2/.1764.0918 
1684 1764.4555Um,1765.0523 
1686 1765.5781eighth grade teacher, Sister1766.8464 
1688 1766.9723/RD-NAME-2/ was the meanest lady I'd ever met,1768.8934 
1690 1769.3784and the way they did it was um,1771.2808 
1692 1772.0537for1772.6179 
1694 1772.8044the higher level reading and math classes,1775.3970 
1696 1775.6488we switched,1776.3424 
1698 1776.5056and of course I was in that group, so I had to go to her class.1779.3873 
1700 1779.9655Okay, so, back to the first days when I'm- when I'm1782.8285 
1702 1783.2004wearing regular clothes, I happen to have on1785.5692 
1704 1786.2360a um-1787.1452 
1706 1787.9892From the front, it looked like a dress, but it was culottes.1790.7019 
1708 1790.8044That's what we called 'em. You [know what I mean? They were really-]1792.4411 
1709DCB_int_011791.6204[Mm-hm. Mm-hm.]1792.4225
1710DCB_se3_ag4_f_011792.8654And you couldn't even tell they were culottes.1794.3855
1712 1794.8740Was walking through the hall,1796.2309 
1714 1797.2008in the line with my classes- Sister /RD-NAME-2/ was at the door-1799.8773 
1716 1800.3855When I walked past her, she said- She pulled me-1803.0749 
1718 1803.3780come over here!1803.9562 
1720 1804.8701We do not wear pants in this school!1807.3403 
1722 1807.9978So that was my first week1809.2428 
1724 1809.5225at a school that I didn't wanna go to,1811.1872 
1726 1811.4203where everybody else knew each other,1812.6886 
1728 1812.9906I felt like,1813.5968 
1730 1813.7040you know, I was an odd ball out,1814.8138 
1732 1815.0609and she made me feel even more like an oddball out. So of course I hated it. I was like, okay.1818.5627 
1734 1818.7912I hate this. I never wanna come to this school again.1820.8790 
1736 1821.3407Toughed it out.1822.0634 
1738 1822.4225Um,1822.9027 
1740 1823.1219and then by the time I got to eighth grade, she and I were chums cause she saw I was1826.4267 
1742 1826.7671smart.1827.3500 
1744 1827.5878I- Cause I was.1828.3992 
1746 1829.1965I was smart because she made me smart. She- Otherwi- She would-1831.7973 
1748 1832.1423She would embarrass you so terribly. We had a young man who stuttered terribly in class.1836.3482 
1750 1836.9766Whenever she called on him to answer a question,1838.8511 
1752 1838.9863if he couldn't get a word out, up next.1841.1779 
1754 1841.3504She would move to the next person. She had no sensitivity1843.5408 
1756 1843.6667at all.1844.0211 
1758 1844.4780So anyway, she and I ended up being really1846.3245 
1759DCB_int_011846.5251Mm.1846.8095
1760DCB_se3_ag4_f_011847.1452tight1847.5695
1762 1847.6815because I w-1848.4182 
1764 1848.5534I- She made me1849.8439 
1766 1850.0491learn.1850.5060 
1768 1850.6459She made me wanna1851.6438 
1770 1851.9981be my best cause I was not gonna let her embarrass me.1854.1384 
1772 1854.4135Okay, so that's- that's one story.1855.5828 
1773DCB_int_011855.8625[<laugh>]1856.6599
1774DCB_se3_ag4_f_011856.1843[So]1856.6366
1775 1856.8837from the- and the g- and the school was made up of-1859.8540
1777 1860.5534It was pretty diverse.1861.6667 
1779 1861.9698There were- There were Whites. There were Hispanic.1864.3012 
1781 1864.4924There were1865.1126 
1783 1865.2338Asians.1866.0731 
1785 1866.6933Um,1867.2424 
1787 1867.5455and Black.1868.1610 
1789 1868.7951And1869.1915 
1791 1869.3593um,1869.9189 
1793 1870.3152people from Africa1871.2618 
1795 1871.4670were there.1871.8136 
1796DCB_int_011871.7840Mm.1871.9845
1797DCB_se3_ag4_f_011872.0079So it was very diverse.1873.0617
1799 1873.5734Um,1873.9465 
1801 1874.4221so I managed to get through the grade school, went over to the academy, which was ninth1878.2937 
1803 1878.5021through twelfth grade.1879.3028 
1805 1879.9325Um,1880.5107 
1807 1881.0656best1881.6484 
1809 1881.9469high school years of my life.1883.5182 
1811 1884.0172I-1884.3704 
1813 1884.4870My best friend was /RD-NAME-3/.1885.9465 
1815 1886.2356/RD-NAME-3/1886.8184 
1817 1886.8977was- her family was from the Dominican Republic.1889.3690 
1819 1889.8726Um,1890.2410 
1821 1890.3343she was a um,1892.2775 
1823 1892.6310<ts>1892.7200 
1825 1893.0842dark brown skinned girl.1894.2686 
1827 1895.1406I was a light skinned girl. Everybody used to call- You know, used to say, we were just1898.2542 
1829 1898.3755like salt and pepper /all the ti-/.1899.5470 
1831 1899.7137We were- We were clo- We-1900.9354 
1833 1901.0566We were inseparable.1902.0591 
1835 1902.1804We used to do everything together.1903.4802 
1837 1903.9791Um,1904.4640 
1839 1904.6273and- including,1906.0308 
1841 1906.1567you know, hanging out or sneaking out from lunch when we weren't supposed to.1909.4848 
1843 1910.0630Um,1910.5293 
1845 1911.0096in about tenth grade,1912.3805 
1847 1912.7768we had-1913.2758 
1849 1913.6208our- ours-1914.1804 
1851 1914.5907Um, the academy was- was a1915.8998 
1853 1916.3521converted1917.1635 
1855 1917.8443like,1918.1007 
1857 1918.2313house- this huge house,1919.8027 
1859 1920.2876um,1920.6840 
1861 1920.7901that-1921.1258 
1863 1922.3755You know, it was um-1923.9049 
1865 1925.5835I- I can't- We ha- I think it was a total of about1928.1028 
1867 1928.7019a hundred fifty girls in the school, s- ninth through twelfth grade.1931.4157 
1869 1932.0032Um, and so1933.2435 
1871 1933.7273we used to have this room1935.0283 
1873 1935.2288in the basement where our lockers /room/, and then there was a tunnel,1938.0498 
1875 1938.3797It was used in some war,1939.6480 
1877 1939.8299you know, so it was- Whatever.1940.8977 
1879 1941.2148So this tunnel- So a group of us went down there, decided we were gonna smoke cigarettes.1944.5161 
1881 1944.6140Okay?1944.9731 
1883 1945.4475So we go down there, we're lighting up cigarettes,1947.3500 
1885 1947.8116and we hear somebody come.1949.3970 
1887 1950.0731And there is one of the nuns coming down. And she's-1952.3941 
1889 1952.6506she realizes wh- somebody is back- There's probably like eight of us.1955.4110 
1891 1955.9146And she starts c-1957.0384 
1893 1957.2377girls, come out of there. Girls, come out of there. So one at a time,1960.0075 
1895 1960.3665they're peeling out- We're peeling out, right?1961.9659 
1897 1962.2270She doesn't say anything. Coming out, coming out.1964.2309 
1899 1964.5620She sees me, and she says,1966.3525 
1901 1966.8794/RD-NAME-2/1967.4670 
1903 1967.6022/RD-NAME-2/, I am surprised at you.1969.6434 
1905 1969.7366Right?1969.9884 
1907 1970.5200Everybody was like, what- Is she surprised at you? Everybody else, she's like, mm-hm. Mm-hm.1974.1617 
1909 1974.6746/RD-NAME-2/- so, I1975.8859 
1911 1976.0630I was-1976.4594 
1913 1976.7858And I was a good girl. I didn't do any- I knew my limits because I knew1979.9612 
1915 1980.4928what I'd have to deal with at home if I got into serious trouble.1983.5412 
1917 1984.0774But um,1984.7489 
1919 1984.8981so I used to-1985.8633 
1921 1986.0032I used to-1986.4975 
1923 1987.0652Everybody thought I was like this- this1988.7998 
1925 1990.4038perfect- n- not perfect. They thought I was a good girl.1992.6467 
1926DCB_int_011992.6373Mm, [you were a] goody goody [two shoes.]1994.0134
1927DCB_se3_ag4_f_011992.8367[Right?]1993.0978
1929 1993.5828[I was goody] [goody two] shoes. But-1995.0283 
1930DCB_int_011994.1423[Mm-hm.]1994.5200
1931DCB_se3_ag4_f_011995.1775but /RD-NAME-2/ and I had our moments, you know.1997.1126
1933 1997.2711And we had our moments doing1998.4322 
1935 1998.5627other crazy stuff.1999.4802 
1937 2000.0304Um,2000.3475 
1939 2000.4547I was a cheerleader in high school,2001.9562 
1941 2002.7302and we cheered for2004.0452 
1943 2004.2130our all girl basketball team.2005.7833 
1945 2006.5060And um (laughing), we would go around to different high schools and cheer. And it was a big deal.2010.1990 
1947 2010.7726Um,2011.2470 
1949 2012.0257we went to competitions. My freshman year we won the entire competition, so it was my first trophy.2016.6420 
1951 2017.1118Felt pretty2017.6247 
1953 2018.0397good about that.2018.7252 
1955 2019.2148Um, I was always a good student. My s- Teachers always thought I was a good student.2023.1782 
1957 2023.6714Um, I ended up being the president of my senior class. /RD-NAME-3/ was vice president.2027.9939 
1958DCB_int_012028.1990Ah.2028.4415
1959DCB_se3_ag4_f_012028.6875And [um]-2029.7133
1960DCB_int_012029.3450[Naturally.]2029.8859
1961DCB_se3_ag4_f_012029.8859Yeah, right. I was2031.1205
1962 2031.1961um, captain of my cheerleading squad. You know, I was on all the-2034.3343
1964 2034.8833Yearbook Committee, all that stuff.2036.5993 
1965DCB_int_012036.6692[Mm.]2036.8930
1966DCB_se3_ag4_f_012036.7252[You know?]2037.0656
1967 2037.4852Um, and again, the- the- the2039.0753
1969 2039.2711cl-2039.4530 
1971 2039.5556the school was very diverse.2041.0570 
1973 2041.4196Um, it had some hard chicks,2042.9443 
1975 2043.1122and then it had some very soft sort of2045.2105 
1977 2045.4530soft spoken (speaks softly) girls, so it was-2046.8752 
1979 2047.5128There were um,2048.6925 
1981 2049.5878um,2049.9329 
1983 2050.0494lesbian girls there.2051.5835 
1985 2051.9939There were um,2053.3028 
1987 2054.1703hoodlums there,2055.2055 
1989 2055.5039and it was everything in between.2056.8235 
1991 2057.0333But it was2057.3364 
1993 2057.4576awesome.2057.8586 
1995 2058.0079It was just-2058.6653 
1997 2059.4709You know, nobody-2060.2775 
1999 2060.5666It wasn't like people were2061.7557 
2001 2063.1033m- messing with each other, or tryna beat up each oth- None of that. It was just, that's how- how they were. You knew that's how they were.2069.1965 
2003 2069.7887They were your girls. They were your friend. They did their thing. You did your thing.2072.8495 
2005 2073.1775But you knew that2073.9702 
2007 2074.0961when they left school, it was a whole different-2075.7514 
2009 2075.8959different thing, so.2076.8518 
2010DCB_int_012076.9906What did you do for fun?2077.9418
2012 2078.2262Like, especially that-2079.2567 
2014 2079.4293Like,2079.6811 
2015DCB_se3_ag4_f_012079.6764Mm-hm.2080.1194
2016DCB_int_012080.3106as a teenager and a young adult, like what did you do2083.1724
2018 2083.2890outside of school?2084.4174 
2019DCB_se3_ag4_f_012085.1029We w- used to um-2086.8561
2021 2088.0731We used to- After school, we used to ride the bus downtown,2091.0516 
2023 2091.3920and-2091.8862 
2025 2092.3012You know, downtown like on Seventh Street. Hecht's used to be there, so we used to go down and2096.0257 
2027 2096.5620um,2097.0422 
2029 2097.5505you know, hang out at the stores. We didn't really have money,2099.6581 
2031 2100.0964but the little bit of money we'd have we might,2101.9092 
2033 2102.0491you know, buy- go and eat. So we'd do stuff like that after school.2105.2635 
2035 2105.8400Um,2106.3995 
2037 2106.7668we would go to movies.2109.0143 
2039 2109.1215Um,2109.6298 
2041 2110.4178we didn't um-2111.7980 
2043 2111.9193We didn't do a lot of like-2113.4196 
2045 2115.0003We did p- We did have pa- We had house parties.2117.4903 
2047 2117.7467You know, we had2118.2317 
2049 2118.7866occasional house parties.2120.1796 
2051 2120.7158Um,2121.3127 
2053 2121.6251and just2121.9795 
2055 2122.1287kind of hang out at each other's houses. You know, we would2124.4089 
2057 2124.8414hang out. We would2125.6154 
2059 2125.8765play records, like forty [fives (laughing).]2128.3059 
2060DCB_int_012128.0028[/Mm./]2128.3479
2061DCB_se3_ag4_f_012128.7162And we'd sing. And we'd pretend like we were the group singing. And we'd- had dance steps, and we'd2133.4335
2063 2133.8840you know, do that kind of thing. Um,2135.6652 
2065 2136.0184I used to love, believe it or not, going to the library. So I used to take the bus-2139.4037 
2066DCB_int_012139.5436I am not surprised now, [/RD-NAME-2/.] That is-2141.4088
2067DCB_se3_ag4_f_012140.7047[<laugh>]2141.0963
2068DCB_int_012141.6034[Nope, not surprised] at that.2142.7086
2069DCB_se3_ag4_f_012141.6174[<laugh>]2142.1583
2070 2142.8111I used to take the bus to Petworth Library2145.2219
2072 2145.3944and go up there. And I used to love to read these teenage romance novels.2148.8438 
2074 2149.2681I'd get my- my books, and I'd hop right back down to um,2152.4435 
2076 2152.6580home, and I'd read my books and-2154.2469 
2078 2154.8578So sometimes I could convince a couple of my girlfriends to um,2157.8280 
2080 2158.5554to go up with me. And we'd-2159.7725 
2082 2160.3402You know- We'd hang out and be stupid at the library.2162.2613 
2084 2162.7742Um,2163.3058 
2086 2164.5181for a minute, I was a cheerleader for Pop Warner. We had [um]-2168.1715 
2087DCB_int_012167.6411[Mm.]2167.8789
2088DCB_se3_ag4_f_012168.9374um-2169.4503
2090 2170.2570You know some of the-2170.9133 
2092 2171.0346Like I said, there were a lot of-2172.0930 
2094 2172.3635There were a lot of young people in the neighborhood,2174.0655 
2096 2174.1634and there was a group of guys2176.0145 
2098 2176.4529that were on this Pop W- And- And I didn't even know it was Pop Warner until2179.4582 
2100 2179.7064you know, years later.2180.6530 
2102 2181.3804Excuse me. But they were playing football, and they were looking for girls to cheer.2184.3915 
2104 2184.5547And so a lot of2185.2494 
2106 2185.4453girls in my neighborhood and2186.7649 
2108 2187.2219people I went to school with, we formed a group.2189.2782 
2110 2189.4787We had somebody- I don't even remember who she was- that made up the cheers for us, and we'd2193.0447 
2112 2193.3478practice2194.0425 
2114 2194.4668throughout the night2195.3202 
2116 2195.5020on our street,2196.3495 
2118 2196.5267you know,2196.8857 
2120 2197.0303um,2197.3753 
2122 2197.5152doing cheers. So we did that.2199.0633 
2124 2199.6881Um,2200.2524 
2126 2201.2176I didn't-2201.6885 
2128 2201.8506I-2201.9858 
2130 2202.2749That's-2202.7692 
2132 2202.9044You know,2203.3241 
2134 2204.1680I was really- Our family was very very close. So we did a lot of things2208.2656 
2136 2208.3821together as a family.2209.4593 
2138 2209.9675Um,2210.3965 
2140 2210.4991so a lot of times, you know I-2211.8793 
2142 2212.6254When my sisters had parties, you know, we'd sneak down there and /sit/ on the basement step until they ran us out.2217.6788 
2144 2218.1777Um,2218.6860 
2146 2219.1197we used to- I used to dress up in their clothes.2221.2588 
2148 2221.3520You know, I mean stuff like that. You know, nothing-2223.4550 
2149DCB_int_012224.1731You weren't a super super wild [child.]2225.4880
2150DCB_se3_ag4_f_012225.4041[I] was not. I-2226.3355
2151 2227.4080I- You know,2228.1354
2153 2228.2846I got a little wild2229.8747 
2155 2230.3829in my2231.0264 
2157 2231.1383like, junior and senior year.2232.6852 
2159 2233.6458And um, that's when I discovered weed.2235.9213 
2161 2236.2151Okay?2236.6114 
2162DCB_int_012236.5881<laugh>2237.2362
2163DCB_se3_ag4_f_012237.2968And2237.8890
2165 2238.0138so um- [And I was driving.]2240.0934 
2166DCB_int_012238.9883[And this was the seventies.]2240.5364
2167DCB_se3_ag4_f_012240.3219[This] was the [seventies.]2241.5249
2168DCB_int_012241.0027[Early se- So] it [was like a thing.]2242.7699
2169DCB_se3_ag4_f_012241.9772[Yeah, it was early seventi-]2242.9378
2170 2243.0171It was- [It was not-]2244.1209
2171DCB_int_012243.4227[It was a thing.]2244.1209
2172DCB_se3_ag4_f_012244.3262Okay, if I can be honest with you,2245.9302
2174 2246.5178/RD-NAME-2/ and I- because I got my driver's license at sixteen,2249.7585 
2176 2250.0464didn't have a car.2250.7692 
2178 2250.9837We never had a family car.2252.4198 
2180 2252.6576We never had a family car.2253.9679 
2182 2254.6161Um, my sisters always had cars. So my- my sister next to me, who is eight years older,2258.8535 
2184 2259.2358she was working,2260.1265 
2186 2260.3176um-2260.5741 
2188 2261.5895Oh, sorry.2262.0930 
2190 2262.3635She was working2263.3509 
2192 2263.4511at2263.7122 
2194 2263.8801/RD-WORK-6/2265.1438 
2196 2265.3792/RD-WORK-3/. She had worked there for years.2267.0993 
2198 2267.6064And,2268.0540 
2200 2268.1519she was living at home still. She had a daughter.2270.2316 
2202 2270.4088So, she and her daughter were living at home.2272.0583 
2204 2272.4779So she had money to burn. So she went out and bought a car-2274.4084 
2206 2274.5996We- She and I got2275.6627 
2208 2275.7420our driver's license at the same time.2277.3821 
2210 2277.6899I was sixteen.2278.5619 
2212 2278.7391She was what? Twenty four.2279.8581 
2214 2280.4643And then, as soon as she got her driver's license, she went out and bought a car.2283.7795 
2216 2283.9650Like, little- You know, little2284.9256 
2218 2285.0794car.2285.3685 
2220 2285.9840And um,2287.0379 
2222 2287.5228I would2288.0357 
2224 2288.1616drive her to work in the morning. She worked out in um,2290.6411 
2226 2291.0421<ts>2291.1914 
2228 2291.6437um, Crystal City.2292.5622 
2230 2292.9399I would drive her before school in the morning,2294.8552 
2232 2294.9578drop her off and have her car2296.4127 
2234 2296.7950at- at school.2297.5690 
2236 2297.8022So I was just- you know, we-2298.8653 
2237DCB_int_012298.8513Oh, you were it.2299.5415
2238DCB_se3_ag4_f_012299.3154[Leaving-] oh, I was it. I had my girls piling in that tiny little car. <laugh>2302.7251
2239 2303.1028And we would go, and we would-2304.4876
2241 2304.6928I don't even know where we would go. We would go- Rock Creek Park wasn't far. So we'd go, and we'd drive down to Rock Creek Park.2309.7929 
2243 2310.1566We'd hang out there. We might smoke some weed hanging out there. Then,2312.7305 
2245 2313.2236we'd come- Or we'd go- Just ride.2315.4338 
2247 2315.5924We just r- rode.2316.6508 
2249 2316.7861You know, we didn't go- No place, no destination in mind. We'd just ride.2319.4381 
2251 2319.7692There were times we'd even smoke weed in the car.2321.5877 
2253 2321.9421And if we'd s- You know,2322.9026 
2255 2323.4062because you know, cigarette smoking was more- I mean, you know, it was just-2326.3800 
2257 2326.7903It wasn't as-2327.7462 
2259 2328.3524It's not that it wasn't taboo cause it was illegal,2330.8377 
2261 2331.0697but2331.3915 
2263 2332.0116[everybody did it. It had- It totally-]2333.8721 
2264DCB_int_012332.1282[It had a different- Yeah, it had a very] [different-]2334.5483
2265DCB_se3_ag4_f_012334.3804[It] really did.2335.2057
2266 2335.3270It really did.2335.9331
2268 2336.0171I mean you could- We would go- I remember going to Howard University to see um,2340.0074 
2270 2340.6508Santana and some other- And I was probably2343.3588 
2272 2344.5479fourteen, fifteen. My- my2346.2172 
2274 2346.8094girlfriend and I went.2347.6813 
2276 2348.2502And2348.7107 
2278 2349.0511people were sitting there- Well you could smoke cigarettes then,2351.2473 
2280 2351.3592/in time/ at Cramton Auditorium.2352.9446 
2282 2353.4808And um,2354.3668 
2284 2355.3309we were sitting (laughing)- My girlfriend and I were sitting-2357.0655 
2286 2357.2380fourteen- probably fourteen.2358.5343 
2288 2358.9446And there was some college students in front of us, some guys.2361.6526 
2290 2361.9417And they were smoking a joint.2363.1447 
2292 2363.3592And they2363.7556 
2294 2363.9607reached back to us and asked us did we want-2365.9471 
2296 2366.2875And I was like, oh God no! Cause by th- You know, I was like, oh! Oh! Ah!2369.0981 
2298 2369.2893No!2369.5551 
2300 2369.6763No!2369.9141 
2302 2370.5063And so we were- And we talked about that for weeks,2373.0289 
2304 2373.2796that, he was- he was offering us a joint!2375.0421 
2306 2375.3685He was offering- We should have taken it. We should have taken it.2377.2430 
2308 2377.5042So it was more-2378.4974 
2310 2378.6314You know it was2379.1210 
2312 2379.2469open. We would go to concerts at um-2381.9141 
2314 2382.3944It was the Capital Centre then, which is over in Largo.2384.7072 
2315DCB_int_012384.6979Mm-hm.2385.1209
2316DCB_se3_ag4_f_012385.3169And2385.8671
2318 2385.9837um,2386.4127 
2320 2387.1541you could smoke weed at the Capital Centre. You know /big/ shows like Parliament-Funkadelic and2391.5966 
2322 2391.9883um,2392.5246 
2324 2393.2939you know, War. <sigh>2394.5949 
2326 2394.9026Man, those- those were the days.2396.1252 
2328 2396.3108We used to smoke weed in these concerts, and nobody ever said anything.2399.6250 
2330 2399.8535You wouldn't do it just like,2400.9772 
2332 2401.2430you're sitting there out in the open but-2402.8424 
2334 2403.1257And if somebody2403.7971 
2336 2403.9277came up, you know, you'd be-2405.2240 
2338 2405.3452But you could smell it reeking [throughout the whole-] So it was a lot more2408.6512 
2339DCB_int_012407.1311[<laugh>]2407.4389
2340DCB_se3_ag4_f_012409.2423you know, la-2409.7738
2342 2409.9557lax,2410.7297 
2343DCB_int_012410.8929[Mm.]2411.3499
2344DCB_se3_ag4_f_012411.2380[you] know.2411.5504
2345 2412.0820Not as highly2413.0658
2347 2413.1917policed as it is now.2414.4507 
2349 2415.0697Um,2415.4707 
2351 2415.8111so in that regard, I was a little wild child.2417.8675 
2353 2418.2592I was not2419.0658 
2355 2419.1684involve- I had a boyfriend,2420.6186 
2357 2420.7538but sex was2421.6386 
2359 2421.7459/off/ limits. It was like,2423.1167 
2361 2423.8721Nope,2424.4084 
2363 2424.6369not having sex.2425.5601 
2365 2425.7186I'm- I'm not c- Number one cause I'm scared to death.2428.1375 
2366DCB_int_012428.4748[<laugh>]2429.7505
2367DCB_se3_ag4_f_012428.5945[I had no idea.]2429.5271
2368 2429.8162You know it was- that was not- /RD-NAME-2/ and I both, we were like, uh nope.2432.9578
2370 2433.2889If it got to that point, we just let 'em right know- uh, sorry.2435.9980 
2372 2436.3384You know, and-2437.0052 
2374 2437.4109and guys were- They kind of understood.2439.3915 
2376 2439.5687You know, it wasn't like-2440.6085 
2378 2441.2613I don't know. It was just a whole different time.2442.7161 
2380 2443.2663Um,2443.6907 
2382 2443.7979and then,2444.4088 
2384 2444.8925after high school,2446.0256 
2386 2446.5012um,2446.8976 
2388 2447.0421/RD-NAME-2/ went off to /RD-SCHOOL-13/,2449.4482 
2390 2449.5415and I went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/. So we kind of separated ways.2452.5199 
2392 2453.0188And I had other- I mean, we- I had other2454.7254 
2394 2454.9679friends that I dealt with, but /RD-NAME-2/ was my girl, so when she left,2457.8205 
2396 2458.1702it was tough. So I would go down and see her on the weekends. And I didn't live on campus, I commuted.2462.1197 
2398 2462.6326Um,2462.9578 
2400 2463.1816I was fortunate being the youngest child,2465.3919 
2402 2466.0120and because I graduated as valedictorian out of my group of thirty five girls- Hey I was still number one.2470.8883 
2403DCB_int_012471.0142/Yep./2471.2613
2404DCB_se3_ag4_f_012471.4338[Um],2471.8535
2405DCB_int_012471.4432[Number one is] number one.2472.4130
2406DCB_se3_ag4_f_012472.4270and my parents who didn't have-2474.3994
2408 2474.6699We didn't have2475.4101 
2410 2475.5454a lot of money.2476.3007 
2412 2476.6644We weren't-2477.5690 
2414 2477.9421I never remember wanting for anything. I mean, we had food.2480.9581 
2416 2481.1070I didn't have the latest of stuff. You know, I didn't have the latest fashions, the latest clothes, /you know/- stuff like that,2485.1824 
2418 2485.4342but I had clothes. I mean I was-2486.5906 
2420 2486.7258I was- And none of my2487.6526 
2422 2488.1282friends or people I hung out with2489.8675 
2424 2489.9701did either.2490.5669 
2426 2491.1311Um,2491.4808 
2428 2491.6021so,2492.1756 
2430 2493.0697for my graduation gift from high school, they bought me a car.2495.7509 
2432 2496.5669They bought me a little seventy four Chevy Vega,2498.7025 
2434 2498.9532and I remember it was something like,2500.7670 
2436 2501.2147six thousand dollars.2502.3151 
2438 2502.6275And that was a big deal.2503.4668 
2440 2503.6440I mean six thousand dollars was a lot of money.2505.4008 
2442 2505.8205Um, the car note was something like thirty dollars a month.2508.0773 
2444 2508.5809And my [mother-]2509.3456 
2445DCB_int_012508.8178[I wish.]2509.6114
2446DCB_se3_ag4_f_012509.7606My mother, God bless her, she um,2511.8298
2448 2512.8556handled all that2513.7509 
2450 2514.6322herself. She went- I'll never forget her taking a cab2517.7365 
2452 2518.1982to what is now2518.8556 
2454 2519.1074Geico.2519.6996 
2456 2519.8768It used to be called Criterion Insurance.2521.6813 
2458 2522.1057But um,2522.6920 
2460 2523.2329up on Wisconsin Avenue, she took2524.6831 
2462 2524.8370to get me insurance,2525.9794 
2464 2526.4130caught the cab back, so that I when I walked out2528.8273 
2466 2528.9532of my high school graduation,2530.4546 
2468 2530.7577that car was sitting there waiting for me, insured,2532.8747 
2470 2532.9959everything. I mean it was-2533.9145 
2472 2534.5347God bless her soul. My mother was just a saint.2536.9069 
2474 2537.2986Um-2537.7835 
2476 2538.7208um-2539.0565 
2477DCB_int_012539.0798Because she didn't drive.2539.9745
2478DCB_se3_ag4_f_012539.9518She did not drive.2540.8890
2479 2541.2189She did not drive.2542.1609
2481 2542.6038And2543.2613 
2483 2543.4012um,2543.8955 
2485 2545.1684she was- Oh, God. I'm gonna cry again.2547.3961 
2487 2547.8438She was um-2548.9209 
2489 2551.0892I'm sorry.2551.7280 
2490DCB_int_012551.8679No, that's fine.2553.0418
2491DCB_se3_ag4_f_012553.0604<laugh>2553.4148
2492DCB_int_012553.7039It's [okay.]2554.1888
2493DCB_se3_ag4_f_012554.0862[Um],2554.5572
2494 2555.6716my dad was2556.3944
2496 2556.5110more quiet and reserved.2558.1150 
2497DCB_int_012558.4775Mm.2558.8319
2498DCB_se3_ag4_f_012559.1956And2559.6852
2500 2560.4033he went out- He would be up at four in the morning2562.7021 
2502 2563.1358cause his route was downtown, like the businesses downtown.2565.8158 
2504 2566.3753Down M Street.2567.2846 
2506 2567.7649Um,2568.1939 
2508 2568.4457and2568.9633 
2510 2569.0845um,2569.4482 
2512 2569.7513he would get up first- I mean he would be gone. He'd be home like, you know, two o'clock2573.4198 
2514 2573.9141from work. And my mother was a homemaker,2576.1197 
2516 2576.2316but she ran the house. I mean she was2578.2634 
2518 2578.5945five foot two of2579.9747 
2520 2580.1566energy, fire,2581.4575 
2522 2582.0917love like you would not believe. I mean just-2584.4826 
2524 2585.7276I mean,2586.1519 
2526 2586.6182you know, she was just2587.7093 
2528 2588.4927a jewel.2588.9497 
2530 2589.3402And um,2590.0256 
2532 2591.1401everybody in the neighborhood2592.2871 
2534 2592.4970knew my mother. If you came to my mother for anything, and she- Like I said, we didn't have a lot-2596.4220 
2536 2596.6784She would feed you. She di- I- I-2598.3990 
2538 2599.3829I- I- I don't know, /and/ miraculously we would have food to feed2602.1702 
2540 2602.5525you know these guys in the neighborhood that my dad used to2604.8420 
2542 2604.9260you know, do the baseball thing- They'd come in. They would eat.2607.3355 
2544 2607.8205Um,2608.3380 
2546 2609.1914if she had a dollar, and you needed2611.1638 
2548 2611.5135ninety cents,2612.4787 
2550 2612.6046she'd give it to you.2613.3542 
2552 2613.5360You know, everybody-2614.3847 
2554 2614.8510everybody knew2615.4851 
2556 2615.7742my mother for that. She was just very giving and very2618.2222 
2558 2618.7806um,2619.0371 
2560 2619.7086kind.2620.2494 
2562 2620.7670And- But she was a fire cracker.2622.3384 
2564 2622.5249You know, it was just2623.3829 
2566 2623.7280she2624.2642 
2568 2625.1630at times- And she didn't do it all the time, but when she was mad, she could curse like a sailor. She went to church every Sunday, was on her2630.3528 
2570 2630.4600choir.2631.1209 
2572 2631.4195She was a very- We used to always said, if you- say, if you needed to talk to God,2634.8513 
2574 2635.2290get my mother to pray for you, because she had a direct connection2637.6433 
2576 2637.7925Cause she was just (laughing)-2638.6691 
2578 2639.4758So um,2640.2125 
2580 2640.5902but2640.8560 
2582 2641.0705she would um-2642.2782 
2584 2643.2936We knew not-2644.2355 
2586 2645.1401As- as2645.7882 
2588 2646.0307kids2646.7021 
2590 2646.7954growing up, we knew that2648.6279 
2592 2649.1770there were certain lines we did not [cross.]2651.0841 
2593DCB_int_012650.4884[Cross. Mm-hm.]2651.3452
2594DCB_se3_ag4_f_012651.6017And-2651.9887
2596 2652.1053and not so much that my mother would-2653.8212 
2598 2654.0497would whip you and2654.9170 
2600 2655.0651punish you and-2655.5454 
2602 2655.8624It was cause we didn't want to disappoint her.2658.0913 
2604 2658.4317You know what I mean?2658.9633 
2606 2659.0612It was more that than anything.2660.3854 
2608 2660.6827It was the fear of-2661.7365 
2610 2662.1142of M- Mom2662.9489 
2612 2663.3126being upset with us2664.7674 
2614 2664.8607or disappointed with us2666.3481 
2616 2666.5486versus-2667.2050 
2618 2667.8111Cause she never like,2668.5805 
2620 2668.7204whipped us or /unintelligible/-2669.4665 
2622 2669.6157I never got a spanking.2670.6089 
2624 2670.7954My- my2671.2850 
2626 2671.5088siblings would always say, well yeah, Mom used to smack me across the head, or whatever.2674.4593 
2628 2674.9023You know, but2675.4478 
2630 2675.7416w-2675.9701 
2632 2676.2871w- I never witnessed anything. And I never-2678.7631 
2634 2679.1630You know.2679.4754 
2636 2679.5687Thank God.2680.0070 
2638 2680.8929Well I don't know if that's thank God or not. Maybe I2682.6229 
2640 2682.9166needed a couple of2683.6860 
2641DCB_int_012683.9068[<laugh>]2685.8997
2642DCB_se3_ag4_f_012684.0217[knocks upside the head. I don't know (laughing).]2685.8951
2643 2686.5385But um,2687.2007
2645 2688.2685yeah, so2688.9726 
2647 2689.5275she um-2690.3715 
2649 2690.6827She saved up, and she saved up. She didn't put the-2692.8836 
2651 2693.1587She had a bank account, but the money that she saved,2695.3503 
2653 2695.7653she- she saved at home so that when she-2698.1439 
2655 2698.9162No, that was the first- Okay, so my first car2700.9772 
2657 2701.2524was2701.7513 
2659 2701.9005the-2702.1430 
2661 2702.3248the seventy four Vega.2703.4195 
2663 2704.1375So um,2705.0794 
2665 2705.9001you know, and I was working- /Oh you know/- little- not getting paid2708.4274 
2667 2708.6606at all, but2709.3448 
2669 2709.8484um- And I was still living at home,2711.4604 
2671 2711.5830and I still lived at home until I actually moved out.2714.1430 
2673 2714.3621I had moved out once with my girlfriend. We2716.1795 
2675 2716.7437got an apartment, and it just2718.2219 
2677 2718.3944you know.2718.7534 
2679 2719.0192It- [I was-]2719.5741 
2680DCB_int_012719.2803[/Didn't work./]2719.6067
2681DCB_se3_ag4_f_012719.7746I never had money. It was like, everything went to rent. It was like, <error sound> I can't do this. I'm moving [back home.]2723.5271
2682DCB_int_012723.1727[Mm-hm.]2723.6110
2683DCB_se3_ag4_f_012724.0726And so my mother welcomed me with open arms,2726.3901
2685 2726.8506and um,2727.7319 
2687 2728.1515sh- so um-2729.2380 
2689 2729.6670So when I finished college-2731.3549 
2691 2731.6161Even before I finished college,2733.0243 
2693 2733.4055my- my Vega died. I had that car- I-2735.7323 
2695 2736.0913We got every dime's worth out of that car. I mean, it-2738.6380 
2697 2739.0464The last time I drove that car, it went only twenty five miles an hour.2742.2219 
2699 2742.3011It was just- I-2743.2897 
2701 2743.4622I drove that car2744.2642 
2703 2745.0557eight, ten years, right?2746.2821 
2705 2746.9722And um, cars weren't made2748.5483 
2707 2748.8560like they are now. So um,2750.3656 
2709 2751.3542anyway, so I needed another car2753.1960 
2711 2753.7369so I could get back to forth to school and- and to work and all.2756.5729 
2713 2756.7200And2757.2050 
2715 2757.7645my mother used to p- play the lottery,2759.9094 
2717 2760.5203and she says, if I hit- Our address was six twenty five.2763.4754 
2719 2763.8111To this day, that is like a magic number in our family.2766.1333 
2721 2766.5063She says, if that six twenty five comes out, I'm buying you a car.2769.5733 
2723 2770.8230Lo and behold,2771.6903 
2725 2771.7649six twenty five came out.2773.0985 
2727 2773.7326My mother- We walked- We-2775.3215 
2729 2775.5174Walk-2775.7179 
2731 2776.1142We went to the2777.2660 
2733 2777.3592Mazda dealer-2778.3664 
2735 2778.5343My brother-in-law took us over there-2780.1197 
2737 2780.5988um, in Arlington.2781.6339 
2739 2781.9557And she pulled out this sack of money,2783.6944 
2741 2784.2638and she2784.8047 
2743 2785.1404had2785.5554 
2745 2785.8818eleven thousand dollars cash2787.5220 
2747 2787.9137that she paid for my car.2789.0794 
2749 2789.6297This was the second car she had bought me!2791.1638 
2751 2791.3876And I'm like, in my2792.3761 
2753 2792.4694twenty- Like early twenties.2793.8857 
2755 2794.5106And2795.0375 
2757 2795.2333I was like-2795.9234 
2759 2796.0167I- Mom, I can't believe th- I- You know.2798.4134 
2760DCB_int_012798.9718What?2799.3262
2761DCB_se3_ag4_f_012800.3241[I know.]2800.8603
2762DCB_int_012800.3241[Wow.]2801.0608
2763DCB_se3_ag4_f_012801.3079Right?2801.5970
2764DCB_int_012801.9607[And this is the] seventies.2803.2151
2765DCB_se3_ag4_f_012801.9654[I know.]2802.4690
2766 2803.2617This was the se-2803.8539
2768 2804.1523This [was-]2804.9310 
2769DCB_int_012804.7771[Or] early [eighties?]2805.7598
2770DCB_se3_ag4_f_012805.1304[By this t- This was] early eighties.2806.6458
2771DCB_int_012806.5759But seven-2807.1028
2772 2807.1914eleven thousand dollars c- It's a lot.2808.9633
2774 2809.7466That's a lot of [money.]2810.6128 
2775DCB_se3_ag4_f_012810.3108[So she] had been saving,2811.7925
2776 2812.1982and then when she hit that lottery for that six twenty five,2815.2290
2778 2815.5834she-2815.9238 
2780 2816.3715It was not even a question. It was like,2818.2821 
2782 2819.1447six twenty five?2820.0866 
2784 2820.9586Let's go o- And my brother in law, who is my oldest sister's husband,2824.1795 
2786 2824.6738um-2825.0981 
2788 2825.2893You know,2825.6064 
2790 2825.7043but they were established. They were, you know-2827.8958 
2792 2828.3715So she used to always kind of2829.8578 
2794 2830.4826defer to him, u- You know, like he went and negotiated the car deal, all that kind of stuff.2834.2502 
2796 2834.6559With this second car that she paid cash,2836.7639 
2798 2836.9582it was she and I.2837.6996 
2800 2838.2312And2838.7068 
2802 2838.9633she-2839.4342 
2804 2839.9471We had no negotiating skills,2841.5174 
2806 2841.6946but she eng- She got that guy2844.1519 
2808 2844.7581wrapped around her finger.2845.7109 
2810 2845.7886Not trying- Not intentionally, just her-2847.9277 
2812 2848.3707But when he saw what she was trying to do,2850.1939 
2814 2850.6742I mean it was just-2851.7699 
2816 2852.1849And then,2852.6407 
2818 2852.9905s- I was so happy. I was so excited. I was so happy.2855.7696 
2820 2856.1379And then I started feeling guilty, like oh my God. I can't believe my mother just took all her money2860.7530 
2822 2861.0981and dropped it down2862.0960 
2824 2862.2452on a car for me.2863.1572 
2826 2863.7979And2864.3668 
2828 2865.3122I-2865.5407 
2830 2865.6712All I could think about was,2866.8510 
2832 2866.9302when I graduate2867.7229 
2834 2868.0260from college-2868.8374 
2836 2869.2430I- I already knew. I- I w- I had majored in computers-2872.1296 
2838 2872.2588in Computer Information Systems.2873.6250 
2840 2873.9467I knew I was gonna work for /RD-WORK-3/.2875.1734 
2842 2875.6021My neighbor had worked for /RD-WORK-3/, this guy I had known for years and years.2878.4639 
2844 2878.6971I said, I'm working for /RD-WORK-3/.2879.8115 
2846 2880.1333So when I came out-2881.1999 
2848 2881.5741<laugh>2881.8026 
2850 2881.9285like who do I think I am? I took2883.2283 
2852 2883.3682a couple months off.2884.1655 
2854 2884.4173Oh I'll get serious about looking for a job2886.1752 
2856 2886.4923in September.2887.2104 
2858 2887.4948I-2887.7093 
2860 2888.0439So stupid when you're young.2889.3635 
2862 2889.8624And um,2890.4080 
2864 2890.5152so I start sending out applications. I went to this interview at Honeywell, went through this excruciating interview process.2896.0583 
2866 2896.4220You know, had to take like this aptitude test, just knew I had the job.2899.3410 
2868 2900.2782They called me2901.0697 
2870 2901.2050to tell me,2902.0583 
2872 2902.8043sorry, we've offered it to another person.2904.5762 
2874 2904.8094And I remember telling them,2906.0171 
2876 2906.1243well you've made a major mistake2907.5314 
2878 2908.6178because2909.2007 
2880 2909.5457I am the person that should have that job.2911.0332 
2882 2911.1404I was2911.4435 
2884 2911.5974devastated.2912.1663 
2886 2912.2549I was-2912.5720 
2888 2912.7771cause I just knew that was gonna be the job that I had.2914.5106 
2889 2914.8183I had already applied to /RD-WORK-3/, and I had already2917.1964
2891 2917.6161gone to their central employment and interviewed.2920.3380 
2893 2920.7297And the guy there, um, /RD-NAME-4/,2922.8467 
2895 2923.2197um,2923.7653 
2897 2924.5288said to me,2925.2842 
2899 2925.6526You know,2926.0723 
2901 2926.6598you have everything we're looking for,2928.1053 
2903 2928.4597but nobody ever gets hired from this chair. What I- What we do is we take your application and put it on file, and when there's an opening in our-2935.1358 
2905 2935.6114you know, in the branches in the regions,2937.2469 
2907 2937.6992we s- we send,2938.5805 
2909 2938.7344you know, resumes over.2939.8721 
2911 2940.5389That was like2940.9726 
2913 2941.1031September.2941.7979 
2915 2942.3808And2942.8844 
2917 2943.2516by the time I had gone through all this interview with Honeywell, it was like,2946.9819 
2919 2947.3829the end of November.2948.3901 
2921 2948.9532And when Honeywell told me that2950.6085 
2923 2950.9162I did not get the job,2951.9514 
2925 2952.1006I was so devastated.2953.3036 
2927 2953.3736I left the house,2954.4321 
2929 2954.8039and I drove to Rock Creek Park- this is a true story-2957.2240 
2931 2957.6064I rode to Rock Creek Park,2958.9586 
2933 2959.0612and I went and I sat down on the rocks-2960.9998 
2935 2961.6200Um, I've told my daughter this story. She says, Mom, please don't tell me this story again.2964.5529 
2937 2964.9866And2965.3316 
2939 2965.4389I was just crying. I was so upset cause I was like, I'm never gonna get a job- you know? What am I gonna do? I did all this to think I could get a job.2971.4389 
2941 2972.0777And um,2973.0196 
2943 2974.1842honestly,2974.6831 
2945 2975.0142this butterfly- this m- monarch butterfly came and2978.1803 
2947 2978.5813sat probably where you are from me.2980.2706 
2948DCB_int_012980.4919Mm-hm.2980.7484
2949DCB_se3_ag4_f_012980.8603And it just sat there, and I- and I wasn't even paying attention. I just happened to look over, and I was like, there's a butterfly.2985.1209
2951 2985.7552And then I just kept looking it, and it didn't move. It s- It was there for like ten minutes.2989.3736 
2953 2990.0824And2990.6839 
2955 2992.2541finally it flew away, and I was like,2993.7742 
2957 2993.9328wow.2994.4270 
2959 2995.2524I- you know,2995.9238 
2961 2996.2631that butterfly just sat there for /like a-/2997.8065 
2963 2998.3940I got home,2999.2426 
2965 3000.2032and by this time, I don't know. It's probably like eight o'clock at night.3003.2796 
2967 3003.8671My mother said,3004.7903 
2969 3005.6343/RD-NAME-2/, somebody from /RD-WORK-3/ called you.3007.4342 
2971 3008.2595I said,3008.5673 
2973 3009.0138what?3009.3075 
2975 3009.4707She said- and she said, her name is3010.8696 
2977 3011.2613S- her name was /RD-NAME-4/. She said- and she said, whatever time you come in just call her.3015.3309 
2979 3016.7530Nine o'clock at night, I'm calling this woman. And she says, oh yeah, hi. I just wanted to um,3020.9310 
2981 3021.5360call3022.0023 
2983 3022.1002and invite you to ha-3023.2939 
2985 3023.4338an interview3024.0540 
2987 3024.1333up here in our office on East West Highway in Bethesda.3026.2968 
2989 3027.0884I was like,3027.5500 
2991 3027.6899oh my God!3028.4453 
2993 3028.5525So I went up,3029.5619 
2995 3029.6810and I had this interview with her.3031.1358 
2997 3031.5321Okay, now,3032.0824 
2999 3032.1616this was truly out of my comfort zone,3033.5827 
3001 3033.7272okay?3034.0769 
3003 3034.4360Little girl from Lamont Street neighborhood,3036.5389 
3005 3036.9633went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/,3038.1197 
3007 3038.4694and here I am, up in these offices of /RD-WORK-3/.3040.5898 
3009 3040.7764Right?3041.0655 
3011 3041.5551Um,3042.0074 
3013 3043.1917the candidates that they had were all Harvard grads. They went to, you know, Columbia. They,3047.9048 
3015 3048.2638you know-3048.5576 
3017 3048.6369I'm super intimidated, right?3050.4600 
3018DCB_int_013050.5207<laugh>3050.8471
3019DCB_se3_ag4_f_013050.8179So I go in and I meet with this woman, /RD-NAME-2/, and she was sweet as can be. Sweet as- really nice.3055.8679
3020 3056.2782And we would- we would, you know, typical interview questions, and she- she was asking me about school and3060.9260
3022 3061.4016you know, I had my spiel together. You know, I was like, well you know,3063.7272 
3024 3064.0909um-3064.4593 
3026 3065.0841And at the time,3065.9607 
3028 3066.0866um, /RD-SCHOOL-3/3067.2803 
3030 3067.9704had some of the top paid professors.3070.1375 
3032 3070.5339Cause I think they were tryna build it up- Whatever.3072.1799 
3034 3072.4503So I mentioned that, and I said, you know, um-3074.8144 
3036 3075.2656and3075.7412 
3038 3075.8624you know, we're using3076.7950 
3040 3076.8976the same textbooks as other universities. And I said, going to a school like /RD-SCHOOL-3/,3081.2936 
3042 3081.6013you have to want3082.3940 
3044 3082.6225to learn.3083.1307 
3046 3083.3173[You have to] want to get something out of it.3085.2710 
3047DCB_int_013083.3359[/Mm-hm/.]3083.9094
3048DCB_se3_ag4_f_013085.4016You know what I mean?3085.8912
3050 3086.1989And I think I worked harder3087.7225 
3052 3088.0583realizing that-3089.3825 
3054 3089.8255You know, having waited3091.1591 
3056 3091.2803to understand what I really wanted to do,3093.1209 
3058 3093.4568now I can focus on-3094.3893 
3060 3094.6038I had some- You know, I had it all down.3096.4037 
3062 3096.8793Went- I had- I interviewed with like four different people.3099.7505 
3064 3100.0210Um,3100.3241 
3066 3101.3452and3101.9281 
3068 3103.0192the last interview was with the branch manager.3105.7459 
3070 3105.9277And3106.2961 
3072 3106.4500I was so nervous cause he was like the top guy.3108.5063 
3074 3109.0798And3109.5135 
3076 3109.6534I walked in and he said,3111.1209 
3078 3111.6013so, do you wanna-3112.1935 
3080 3112.3147Do you wanna work here?3113.1354 
3082 3113.7882I said, I absolutely do. He says, okay. He says, then3116.3868 
3084 3116.8786make an appointment to go over and get your health assessment,3119.2240 
3085DCB_int_013119.6483[<laugh>]3120.1426
3086DCB_se3_ag4_f_013119.6530[and then-]3120.0913
3087 3121.3410And I was like, oh my God. I can't even-3123.4288
3089 3123.5640I- okay, what?3124.4546 
3091 3124.8370So I made an appointment, went over h-3126.2545 
3093 3126.4270gave me a complete physical3127.7559 
3095 3127.8632over there, right?3128.5393 
3097 3129.0045Um,3129.4521 
3099 3129.8298and when I left,3130.9535 
3101 3131.9514the n- You know, like a couple days later, they3133.9005 
3103 3134.0357made me an offer.3134.9403 
3105 3136.0163And I started off3136.9116 
3107 3137.0421in nineteen eighty three,3138.4597 
3109 3138.6369December first, working at /RD-WORK-3/,3140.8086 
3111 3141.2982making twenty five thousand dollars a year.3143.1820 
3113 3143.8208I thought that was the big-3144.6975 
3115 3144.7861Twenty five five3146.0077 
3117 3146.7247as a systems engineer.3147.9464 
3119 3148.0583And you couldn't tell me that I was not on top of the world.3150.5016 
3121 3150.8747And that just made- that just-3152.0859 
3123 3153.0744My faith was- was3154.8276 
3125 3155.6250off the charts.3156.4550 
3127 3156.5622You know what I mean? And I- And I- To this day, I believe that butterfly3159.6433 
3128DCB_int_013159.9986[Was a]3160.2784
3129DCB_se3_ag4_f_013160.0629[was] a [sign]3160.8883
3130DCB_int_013160.5582[sign.] [Mm-hm.]3161.4675
3131DCB_se3_ag4_f_013161.2706[that it's] gonna be okay.3162.2592
3132 3162.4363You know?3162.7954
3134 3163.3746Here I go again. This is emotional, talking about your- This is your life.3166.2190 
3136 3166.7214Um,3167.1644 
3138 3167.7845and I was there for eighteen year-3169.3886 
3140 3169.4958very successful career there, met my husband there.3172.3017 
3142 3172.9172And um,3173.7193 
3144 3175.2534/RD-WORK-3/ was fat, dumb and happy at that point. I mean it was-3178.0406 
3146 3179.4488it w- we were the only computer guy in town,3181.5145 
3148 3181.7476and nobody else could touch us. And then the3183.4624 
3150 3183.6210personal computer came around, and /RD-WORK-3/ said, oops.3186.1855 
3152 3186.4933We dropped the ball on that one. So,3188.0787 
3154 3188.6103you know, they were doing a lot of restructuring.3190.2924 
3156 3190.3950<clears throat>3190.7867 
3158 3190.9033Um,3191.2017 
3160 3191.8498I went through three3193.0202 
3162 3193.3326or- reorganizations where my department was gone.3196.0453 
3164 3196.5629The great thing about /RD-WORK-3/ is it's a huge company. You can always find3199.8316 
3166 3200.3165other3200.7035 
3168 3200.8796openings, and I managed to always find other openings.3203.3789 
3170 3203.8358Um,3204.2042 
3172 3204.4560almost ended up moving to New York3206.1160 
3174 3206.2186to take a job there,3207.3283 
3176 3207.7795but decided I didn't wanna move to-3209.1271 
3178 3209.2716to New York.3210.0583 
3180 3210.1622Um,3210.6612 
3182 3211.2394ended up3211.7756 
3184 3212.0041staying here,3213.0940 
3186 3213.5417worked for /RD-WORK-3/ research, which was a very very technical job.3216.6658 
3188 3216.7731Hor- most horrible job I've ever had.3218.4797 
3190 3218.7968It was reading technical documents,3220.7447 
3192 3221.3089um,3221.7426 
3194 3222.4513to- because it-3223.1974 
3196 3223.3186/RD-WORK-3/ research was where3225.1838 
3198 3225.6303you know, all of the-3226.3857 
3200 3226.7307We used to call 'em propellor heads and the ones that wear the pocket protectors, you know.3229.8176 
3202 3230.4377They [come up with these-]3231.0626 
3203DCB_int_013230.5608[<laugh>]3233.4022
3204DCB_se3_ag4_f_013231.1453[all these ridiculous ideas (laughing).]3233.3929
3205DCB_int_013233.4516She said and the pocket [protectors.]3234.8266
3206DCB_se3_ag4_f_013234.1669[I know it.] And um,3235.6404
3207 3236.0973it was up to us- we were in Market Analysis. What we had to do was to- to search3240.2602
3209 3240.6472the market to see if there was a need for it3242.6289 
3211 3243.1034and to see what other3244.5069 
3213 3244.8893consultants were saying and to s- and to see if anybody else was doing it. So I had to3248.6476 
3215 3248.7408pour through these technical reports3250.3017 
3217 3250.6375and then write3251.3186 
3219 3251.4068summaries and recommendations.3253.4259 
3221 3254.9880Oh my gosh.3255.7002 
3223 3256.1152Seriously, that was the worst job I ever had. I was there for like a year,3259.0109 
3225 3259.3186then September Eleventh happened.3260.8434 
3227 3261.2899Um,3261.7562 
3229 3262.7913my sister worked at the Pentagon,3264.4187 
3231 3264.9549and3265.3653 
3233 3265.6450she was one of the victims at the Pentagon.3267.4857 
3235 3267.9520And3268.5209 
3236DCB_int_013268.6048Mm.3268.8240
3237DCB_se3_ag4_f_013268.9452I totally disengaged3270.3534
3239 3270.9876from my job.3271.6264 
3241 3272.1253It was- I told my-3273.1733 
3243 3273.6909my boss-3274.3903 
3245 3274.4929I said, look, you know,3275.4954 
3247 3275.6167I- We're going through this right now. I-3277.0762 
3249 3277.3000We didn't ev- We were s- We were like,3279.0859 
3251 3279.2572stuck- We had no idea what was going on. It was so3282.0690 
3253 3282.7498extraordinary,3283.8689 
3255 3284.4237it was hard to know how to react, you know. And the process of3287.7706 
3257 3288.6005you know, pulling into the parking lot, hearing on the radio that it-3291.3645 
3259 3292.1618the tower was hit3293.4395 
3261 3293.5467in New York.3294.3068 
3263 3295.3793There was rumor that the plane went into the Pentagon,3297.5837 
3265 3297.9474so I called my sister immediately.3299.5934 
3267 3299.8032Her voicemail came on, and I said, look, call me3302.2652 
3269 3302.3760ASAP. Let me know everything's okay.3304.2038 
3271 3305.0665Nothing. I got into my office. I called her again. The phone just rang and rang and rang and rang.3309.0532 
3273 3309.6163Called her again,3310.5582 
3275 3310.6934and there was- it- the phone just went dead, like- And I- I was cursing the cell phone cause I was like, these daggone cell phones don't work, and3316.6701 
3277 3317.2809um,3317.6820 
3279 3318.3627my husband called me and say, come home.3319.9621 
3281 3320.5403You know, Just come home because3321.9753 
3283 3322.6934/RD-NAME-2/ this is w- This is a big deal, and3325.2860 
3285 3325.9155they might be targeting large cooperations. You have no idea. Just come home. So I left,3329.7185 
3287 3330.1902went home,3330.8430 
3289 3331.0715We're- My family's calling- My- Her son, who was in3334.0733 
3291 3334.5162Indiana at the time, he was- he was3336.1436 
3293 3336.2695an adult.3336.6752 
3295 3336.8104He was in school.3337.5518 
3297 3337.6544No, he didn't finish school.3338.4610 
3299 3338.9693He's calling, wondering if we had heard from her.3340.8053 
3301 3341.3462Um,3341.7193 
3303 3342.3208by- by night we called her house. Nothing.3344.9273 
3305 3345.4111Um,3345.9054 
3307 3346.4836so we're calling h- i- By night time, we're calling hospitals.3349.1927 
3309 3349.4818We're c- We're calling [every place we could] possibly call,3351.9986 
3310DCB_int_013350.3912[/Imaginable/]3351.4042
3311DCB_se3_ag4_f_013352.4836and nothing. The next day came, we went through the whole process-3355.2114
3313 3355.5611We ended- So my husband3357.1512 
3315 3357.6163and my3358.2924 
3317 3358.5395nephew,3359.2623 
3319 3359.4162um,3359.8545 
3321 3360.3021after like a couple of days,3361.7709 
3323 3362.3491found out3363.0999 
3325 3363.2013that3363.6256 
3327 3364.2085there was this um,3365.6260 
3329 3366.5586over at3367.0202 
3331 3367.1601the Sheridan in Crystal City, they had sort of a3369.1838 
3333 3369.7748makeshift control3371.0338 
3335 3372.0223room or something,3373.0342 
3337 3373.5798so3374.0367 
3339 3374.1253they rode over there, and3375.6443 
3341 3376.0546they3376.3157 
3343 3376.6515came back to tell us all the s- You know, they had set up family3379.8129 
3345 3380.3724rooms and3381.3692 
3347 3381.9474um,3382.2598 
3349 3382.3717it was- it was-3383.0991 
3351 3383.4115The way the g- The way the government handled it,3385.5378 
3353 3385.7290the mili-3386.0414 
3355 3386.1766duc- department defense handled it-3387.6722 
3357 3388.1525/Hats off to them./3389.0152 
3359 3389.3416I mean they c- They accommodated us so much, tried to give us as much information-3393.4110 
3361 3393.7189We spent so much time over at that hotel, just trying to-3396.4886 
3363 3396.8990and f- and we had to get DNA samples. We had-3399.1325 
3365 3399.4484By this time, we were- we3400.8053 
3367 3401.1690were pretty3401.6820 
3369 3401.9990certain that,3402.7824 
3370DCB_int_013402.9503[Mm.]3403.2673
3371DCB_se3_ag4_f_013402.9643[you know.]3403.3093
3372 3403.8129So they um,3404.7303
3374 3405.0194ended up3405.4951 
3376 3406.0639doing a graphic of where the plane hit,3408.5679 
3378 3409.3233and you know, the Pentagon is huge.3411.1745 
3380 3411.5230And they had this green slice like this,3413.9990 
3382 3414.4327and they- they3415.1508 
3384 3415.2720had a-3415.6124 
3386 3415.7476a young man-3416.4506 
3388 3416.6138mili-3416.8096 
3390 3416.9075you know,3417.2013 
3392 3417.4531soldier standing there,3418.6281 
3394 3418.9965and he says,3419.6913 
3396 3420.2368um-3420.6052 
3398 3420.8757You just had to tell him what3422.1113 
3400 3422.6044office your-3423.3458 
3402 3423.4671your family member was in, and he could tell you on the chart,3426.1389 
3404 3426.6099where that office was- wh- if they were affected.3428.5776 
3406 3429.3785So we told him,3430.4883 
3408 3430.9452and he pointed right to the green slice.3433.2300 
3410 3434.1300And then he just stood right back at attention. He didn't say anything or any-3437.2203 
3412 3437.8871And it was- She was in the direct impact3440.1906 
3414 3440.5170zone.3440.8481 
3416 3441.5790[And]3442.1992 
3417DCB_int_013441.5790[Oh wow (whispers).]3442.1992
3418DCB_se3_ag4_f_013443.4768um,3443.9617
3420 3446.3538it was just-3446.9646 
3422 3447.1080I- Man. It was- that- it was- That was a time.3449.1224 
3424 3449.7985In hindsight,3450.7824 
3426 3452.2372it's a blessing3452.9740 
3428 3453.1687because I'm hoping that it happened (snaps) just like that, and she didn't know what happened.3456.0363 
3430 3457.0284You know, rather than-3458.1737 
3431DCB_int_013459.2835[Suffering (whispers).]3459.7731
3432DCB_se3_ag4_f_013459.6285[Yeah.] So,3460.4399
3433 3461.3958anyway, and it took a long long time for them to find any of her remains.3464.7758
3435 3465.2788Um,3465.5586 
3437 3465.6985we3465.9829 
3439 3466.3326had to wait mon- months before we could-3468.4484 
3441 3468.6070before we did a-3469.3297 
3443 3469.4603like a memorial service for her. So it was-3471.4746 
3445 3472.1741Anyway. Not to dwell on that, but- but um,3474.5230 
3447 3475.3111so after- during that process, I was totally disengaged from /RD-WORK-3/.3478.8036 
3449 3479.4564And at that point, because of all the restructuring3482.1504 
3451 3482.6959they were having packages that they were offering people.3485.2839 
3453 3485.4925You know, if you retire early, you know, you get so many3487.8286 
3455 3488.2996months severance pay, and you can3489.9036 
3457 3490.0202have your bene- full benefits, all that.3491.6196 
3459 3491.9355I to- I told my husband, I'm- I'm done.3493.3530 
3461 3493.5768I can't- I can't do that anymore. I'm- I'm done.3495.7218 
3463 3496.3653And3496.8549 
3465 3496.9388he was very supportive. My kids were young too. They were-3499.5722 
3467 3500.2623My guess is like, nine.3501.5586 
3469 3502.3233Eight and nine?3503.0181 
3471 3503.4983Um,3503.9227 
3473 3504.3645and3504.9240 
3475 3505.6235I just-3506.1177 
3477 3506.2903You know, it was just- I couldn't deal with it. I felt like I had to be with my family. You know, protect my kids. /You know/ just-3511.3297 
3479 3511.6701It was such an uncertain time,3513.1016 
3480 3513.5493and um,3514.4072
3482 3515.7548he was just sort of, what are you gonna do there? You know, what-3518.3742 
3484 3518.6586I mean,3519.0410 
3486 3519.3767y- y- we were a two income home.3520.7709 
3488 3520.9948What are you gonna- And /RD-WORK-3/ was3522.2164 
3490 3522.4111paying a- a decent salary3523.8566 
3492 3524.2063after being there for eighteen years, and it was like, I don't even care.3526.5471 
3494 3526.9948I don't care. I'm not doing anything.3528.2677 
3496 3528.6583If I have to go to work at3529.4043 
3498 3529.9872Giant or some other- I'm- I'm not doing that anymore. I'm done.3532.8455 
3500 3533.4144And um,3534.2864 
3502 3534.5976as time went on3535.7680 
3504 3536.3929um,3536.8218 
3506 3537.7637this young lady had told me about3539.4191 
3508 3540.0567George Washington University having this event management3542.3602 
3510 3542.6213thing,3542.9850 
3512 3543.1063you know.3543.5073 
3514 3543.8570And I had done s-3544.6124 
3516 3544.8036some of that in a- in a couple jobs I had at /RD-WORK-3/. And I've-3547.3997 
3518 3547.5629and I was good cause I was creative. I-3549.3068 
3520 3549.9829I was good at that particular3551.1300 
3522 3551.3072kind of thing cause I was3552.2864 
3524 3552.4251creative. I through a l-3553.4836 
3526 3553.6188some great branch office meetings. It was3555.7125 
3528 3555.9969crazy.3556.3093 
3530 3556.5145I used to write scripts for little3557.8854 
3532 3559.0499skits that we would do. I mean it was- it was-3561.0410 
3534 3561.2508that was3561.6332 
3536 3561.8477great.3562.0995 
3538 3562.5331So I end up- I said, okay, I'll j- I'll just take a class and see.3565.0360 
3540 3565.5535So the first day-3566.8871 
3542 3566.9944The first evening that I was supposed to go down to GW,3569.8900 
3544 3570.3831um,3570.7002 
3546 3570.8494just for the3571.4183 
3548 3571.7354orientation,3572.5188 
3550 3572.6773just to see what it was all about.3573.9176 
3552 3574.2300I had my daughter in the car,3575.3911 
3554 3576.2899and I was pulling out of my neighborhood,3577.8613 
3556 3578.4628on- I live off of Georgia Avenue and3580.5891 
3558 3580.7196Randolf Road-3581.4284 
3560 3582.0101Had just3582.4298 
3562 3582.8121pulled off3583.4090 
3564 3583.9592onto Georgia Avenue. It was all this police activity. It was like the streets were blocked,3588.0019 
3566 3588.3878I said, you know what? I told my /daughter/- I said, forget this. I'll do the next one.3590.9897 
3568 3591.0830Cause they had another one coming up3592.1135 
3570 3592.4026the next week.3592.9295 
3572 3593.5030We turned around and went home,3594.6023 
3574 3595.2131found out3596.0198 
3576 3596.2856that the sniper-3597.4886 
3578 3597.8757You know, the Montgomery County sniper?3599.3818 
3580 3600.0194The um,3600.7282 
3582 3601.0080Shoppers-3601.6048 
3584 3601.7447which is right a- right around the corner from my house,3603.9829 
3586 3604.0808somebody had just been shot.3605.2466 
3588 3605.8760So3606.4951 
3590 3607.5256it was-3608.1597 
3591DCB_int_013609.1949So this was two thousand two.3610.3699
3592DCB_se3_ag4_f_013610.5564Yes.3611.0414
3593DCB_int_013611.3305[Mm-hm.]3611.7688
3594DCB_se3_ag4_f_013611.5030[Two thousand] two.3612.1791
3595 3612.3412Yep.3612.5370
3597 3613.0406So um, the sniper was all up in my neighborhood.3615.5912 
3599 3615.7125So <laugh> you know, it was that anxiety now, right?3618.1838 
3601 3618.6303Um,3619.0686 
3603 3619.3111one thing I didn't mention was-3621.2835 
3605 3621.5399So my sister was September eleventh two thousand one.3624.2164 
3607 3624.7748My dad- My parents by that time were- were ill. My dad was in a nursing home. He passed January3629.5077 
3609 3630.0381um,3630.3785 
3611 3631.2551eighteenth, two thousand two.3632.6633 
3613 3633.2741My mom had Alzheimer's by that time,3635.2221 
3615 3635.4039and she passed April twelfth two thousand two.3637.8753 
3617 3638.2763So from3638.8265 
3619 3638.9850September3639.6425 
3621 3640.0622two thousand eleven to April,3641.7315 
3623 3642.4111I had three family members,3643.9872 
3625 3644.2203and then the sniper came.3645.2648 
3627 3645.9549And3646.5285 
3629 3647.8527it- it was just a time of just3649.8007 
3631 3650.0152you know, leaning3650.9990 
3633 3651.1716not on your own understanding.3652.5098 
3635 3652.6823[You know what I mean?]3653.2372 
3636DCB_int_013652.6837[Mm-hm]3653.4466
3637DCB_se3_ag4_f_013653.6056And-3654.0055
3639 3654.3225and it wasn't even3655.2504 
3641 3655.3763um, /RD-NAME-2/, like I was thinking,3656.9104 
3643 3657.1809oh my gosh, all this stuff is happening to me- I can't-3659.0321 
3645 3659.3118It w- I was living it, you know what I mean? It wasn't e- It's not until n-3662.0525 
3647 3662.2063til later that I could look back and say,3663.6378 
3649 3663.8477dang, all of that was [going on at the same] time.3665.8014 
3650DCB_int_013664.7336[/Unintelligible/]3665.5116
3651 3665.8469Mm.3666.1593
3652DCB_se3_ag4_f_013666.3039And it was just tryna get- You know, just tryna get through it. And3669.6565
3654 3670.0995when the s- During that time of the sniper,3672.0066 
3656 3672.6676um,3673.1245 
3658 3674.2763my kids school needed volunteers because it was- They were on lock down.3677.8994 
3660 3678.4391So,3678.9380 
3662 3679.1525I- So, they were in elementary school, and I was like, I'm going up to volunteer at school cause I wanna be where my kids are.3684.2806 
3664 3684.7842So,3685.2784 
3666 3685.4743I'm sitting in the elementary school-3687.4187 
3668 3687.9409The door's right here, glass door. I'm sitting in a chair right here3691.6002 
3670 3692.0478to let people in and out.3693.1855 
3672 3693.5166Now I don't know if that's the sniper coming up here /that I/-3695.4750 
3674 3695.9215Anyway, all of that-3696.9847 
3676 3697.1199But I just felt like- I didn't- It3698.5887 
3678 3698.8871The fear wasn't even there. It was just like, something I had to do,3701.4972 
3679DCB_int_013701.5951[Mm-hm.]3701.9915
3680DCB_se3_ag4_f_013701.6044[you know what I mean?] Just-3702.2293
3681 3702.8728So- so that was going on.3704.3882
3683 3704.5561In the meantime, I started taking classes down at /RD-SCHOOL-4/.3707.3864 
3685 3707.8621Um,3708.1465 
3687 3708.4065finished their program,3709.6841 
3689 3709.8333um,3710.2530 
3691 3710.3602had to do an internship.3711.9643 
3693 3712.5098A family-3713.2046 
3695 3713.6569l- my sister who was killed at the Pentagon3715.6934 
3697 3715.8193was married3716.5188 
3699 3716.9524to um,3717.8523 
3701 3719.0041um, /RD-NAME-3/.3719.9973 
3703 3720.2433His sister,3720.9660 
3705 3721.9172/RD-NAME-3/,3722.6773 
3707 3722.8405was the CEO of /RD-WORK-10/.3725.0927 
3709 3725.8481And um,3726.8494 
3711 3727.0173we've- I've known her since I- You know,3728.6307 
3713 3728.7752a child. They lived right around the corner from us.3730.6823 
3715 3731.2605And um,3732.2164 
3717 3733.2551when3733.7913 
3719 3733.9918my sister passed,3735.2462 
3721 3735.5213she was handling all of my3737.2419 
3723 3738.1360mother's financ- my parents' financial stuff.3740.2809 
3725 3740.9711So3741.3861 
3727 3742.3233because it was so sudden,3743.5683 
3729 3744.0894none of us had access to my parents' like bank accounts or anything like that.3747.6472 
3731 3748.0622So3748.5984 
3733 3748.8222I could not-3749.5496 
3735 3749.9133So their money was sitting in Bank of America, and I could not- We couldn't touch it.3753.5399 
3737 3753.8717Bills couldn't be paid, none of that.3755.3580 
3739 3756.0388Well,3756.3792 
3741 3757.3118/RD-NAME-3/ used to work at Bank of America,3759.3308 
3743 3759.6339and /RD-NAME-3/3760.5758 
3745 3760.8929you know, she's a-3761.5876 
3747 3761.8010She knows everybody in DC.3763.0973 
3749 3763.6242And we were at a baby shower,3765.0417 
3751 3765.2283and um,3766.1189 
3753 3767.5026we were talking about a couple of things, and she said-3769.8667 
3755 3769.9693And I was telling her about my mother, and she said, where's- i-3772.1655 
3757 3772.7763This is at Bank of America? I said, yeah. She said, well I'll call some people. See if I, uh, I can't3776.0390 
3759 3776.1138help that out.3776.6594 
3761 3776.7760You know, see if I can3777.4707 
3763 3777.6246help you out.3778.0676 
3765 3778.6318The next day I get a call from3780.1041 
3767 3780.2440like a bank manager at one of the Bank of America.3782.4309 
3769 3782.7060She said, come on down.3783.5127 
3771 3783.6572I went down3784.3007 
3773 3784.9768signed my name on the- on the p- And I had access to the account. So,3788.0672 
3775 3788.3516I- I3788.8506 
3777 3788.9904owe her for that- for- for-3790.5059 
3779 3791.2182Then I became the person to handle all my3793.1719 
3781 3793.2792parent's financial stuff.3794.0346 
3783 3794.3330So,3794.8226 
3785 3795.2283didn't go through any red tape.3796.5805 
3787 3796.7379It was like, it was her reputation and her-3798.9947 
3789 3799.2325They knew who she was. They trusted her, /and it-/3801.3402 
3791 3801.7785So um,3802.4733 
3793 3802.6306plus we had power of attorney at that point, so3804.7196 
3795 3805.2605managed to get access to that. And she also- And I also shared with her that I was3808.7530 
3797 3809.0095switching careers.3810.0109 
3799 3810.3000And I needed to have like,3811.3165 
3801 3811.7082and internship, and I needed to-3813.2842 
3803 3813.6479I didn't really know about /RD-WORK-4/ like that.3815.4420 
3805 3815.7824She says,3816.2344 
3807 3816.3419you need to come up3817.0880 
3809 3817.2605to /RD-WORK-1/- we do events all the time.3818.9438 
3811 3819.5220So I came up,3820.5479 
3813 3821.4933met with the woman who was doing the-3822.8828 
3815 3823.0087the events at that time.3824.0112 
3817 3824.6174Um,3825.0371 
3819 3825.3775started interning in two thousand3827.1552 
3821 3827.5446two.3827.9456 
3823 3828.8642Yeah?3829.0973 
3825 3829.9973Yeah-3830.1978 
3827 3830.3097No.3830.5708 
3829 3830.6874No, no, no.3831.1117 
3831 3831.2749Two- The end of two thousand two-3832.8556 
3833 3833.5725Two thousand three.3834.4305 
3835 3834.9015And3835.3771 
3837 3835.6335did /Icon/3836.3050 
3839 3836.4076for the first time. This- Our wonderful little event here.3838.7111 
3841 3839.2741And3839.8150 
3843 3839.9223did my portfolio on that3841.5123 
3845 3841.7128and finished3842.3936 
3847 3842.5988the /RD-SCHOOL-4/ program.3843.5220 
3849 3844.2308And uh,3844.6085 
3851 3845.4606[positioned-]3846.1041 
3853 3846.2766Hi.3846.5378 
3855 3847.4610[/Hey./]3847.6755 
3857 3847.8900[Yeah.]3848.1791 
3859 3848.8552[Sure], [yeah.]3849.5034 
3860DCB_int_013849.2795[It's] no problem.3849.9976
3861DCB_se3_ag4_f_013850.4313Um, and3851.0316
3863 3851.2228a position opened [up],3852.2580 
3865 3852.5144[and]3852.9807 
3867 3853.4983got-3853.7035 
3869 3853.8154got a job. And then the Special Event job opened up, and3856.4919 
3871 3856.7064the rest [is history, so.]3857.8150 
3873 3859.5962Yeah.3859.9879 
3875 3861.3635[So that's-]3862.2727 
3877 3863.9129Hopefully I'm- I'm providing information that you're [looking for.] [<laugh>]3867.7132 
3878DCB_int_013865.8154[No, this is great.]3866.7760
3880 3866.9205[So I- I have a different-]3867.9557 
3881DCB_se3_ag4_f_013868.0816[Okay. Yeah, take me where you go-]3869.6845
3882DCB_int_013868.0909[I wanna ask something totally different]3869.6845
3883DCB_se3_ag4_f_013869.7777Okay.3870.1321
3884DCB_int_013870.6963Um,3871.2652
3886 3872.4822because yes, I know kind of your3874.0583 
3888 3874.2215history here,3875.3952 
3889DCB_se3_ag4_f_013875.4093Mm-hm.3875.8150
3890DCB_int_013875.7544um, there's two things that I wanna ask [you about.]3877.7352
3891DCB_se3_ag4_f_013877.3678[Okay.]3877.7221
3892DCB_int_013877.8294First, before we- I wanna do a playful topic, [but the other-] If you could leave one piece of advice3882.5844
3893DCB_se3_ag4_f_013879.9090[Okay.]3880.3474
3895 3882.5797Mm-hm.3882.9714 
3896DCB_int_013883.2978to this generation-3885.0697
3898 3885.2376I won't even just say the youth, but just3886.7344 
3900 3886.9710to people in general,3888.3419 
3902 3889.0507like-3889.4237 
3904 3889.7128Especially the youth though,3890.8646 
3905DCB_se3_ag4_f_013890.9112Right.3891.3448
3906DCB_int_013891.4194what would that piece of advice be?3892.8976
3907DCB_se3_ag4_f_013893.8616<sigh>3894.2440
3909 3894.9668Um,3895.4843 
3911 3898.1888I think it would be3899.6005 
3913 3899.7684um-3900.4119 
3915 3903.4754<sigh>3903.8344 
3917 3905.7124You know,3906.1694 
3919 3906.7336things are gonna happen,3908.0159 
3921 3908.5801you know? You're going to- There are gonna be3910.4220 
3923 3910.9431times when you feel like, why am I going through- Why is this happening to me?3914.7526 
3925 3915.6572There's a reason that- that you're- that it's happening to you.3918.1880 
3927 3918.5191You know what I mean?3919.0180 
3929 3919.4144And as hard- a- as easy it is to say, and I know it's hard to l- to-3923.3952 
3931 3923.7824to live it,3924.3606 
3933 3924.9155but3925.4097 
3935 3925.8993if you can just kind of3927.5593 
3937 3928.1608endure or- or deal with3930.5331 
3939