Line	Speaker	St Time	Content	En Time
1	DTA_int_03	0.2064	Alright, uh,	1.1908
3		1.4753	what I'd like to ask you	2.6134
5		3.1054	to begin with, what kinds of games did you play when you were a kid?	6.0015
6	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	6.5959	Didn't play.	7.2336
7	DTA_int_03	7.7719	Didn't play? What'd you do?	8.7256
8	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	9.5577	I've never been one who could play or relax in any games. Never enjoyed games. Don't enjoy them now.	14.1828
9	DTA_int_03	14.6222	Huh.	14.8718
11		15.4266	What did you do then when you were a kid? Did you work?	17.3653
12	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	17.7904	Mostly read.	18.6096
13	DTA_int_03	19.0868	Mm-hm.	19.5119
14	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	19.5670	And, uh, was a loner.	20.9005
15	DTA_int_03	21.2365	Mm-hm.	21.6110
16	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	21.7993	Uh.	22.2428
18		22.6496	I liked to walk.	23.5929
20		25.2183	Observe people.	26.0686
22		27.1941	Window shop.	27.9889
23	DTA_int_03	28.2550	Mm-hm.	28.5884
24	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	29.7690	Uh, hop	30.4250
26		30.7137	freight trains. I was an adventurer.	32.6100
27	DTA_int_03	33.0565	Mm-hm.	33.3440
28	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	33.5699	And, uh, I was constantly on the move that way. I liked to sit at the waterfront,	37.2000
30		37.3651	reminisce the boats, and watch the boats	39.1116
32		39.4786	river.	39.8941
33	DTA_int_03	40.5486	Mm-hm.	40.8302
34	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	40.9952	And, uh,	41.9586
36		42.7748	I would skip school frequently to-	44.5105
38		44.7873	to enjoy this s- <laugh>.	47.2674
39	DTA_int_03	47.3286	[Did you-]	47.6072
40	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	47.4081	[nomadic] life type.	48.5516
41	DTA_int_03	48.9216	Was this in Detroit?	49.6893
42	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	49.9830	Yes.	50.3897
43	DTA_int_03	51.8053	You can hardly window shop. <laugh>	53.8178
44	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	54.5026	Well, yes I could.	55.6710
45	DTA_int_03	56.0166	Anywhere /above us/.	56.9861
46	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	56.9984	Yeah.	57.2488
48		57.3803	Mm-hm.	57.7290
49	DTA_int_03	58.4110	Uh,	58.7317
51		60.0871	did you ever get out into the woods?	61.6558
52	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	62.1481	Yes, I spent	63.1238
54		63.2951	a number of years in scouting, beginning at the time I was twelve. I spent a lot of time that way.	67.6435
56		68.5916	I had a certain love for, uh,	70.5150
58		71.3163	what we might call, uh, <laugh>	72.4976
60		73.0317	nature and, uh,	73.8178
62		74.0839	wild. And, uh,	75.2828
64		76.6893	every time I had a-	77.4784
66		77.7417	had a opportunity I was out	79.2581
68		80.3530	playing at camp. I remember doing that when I was a kid.	82.8667
70		83.1267	Oh, back	83.6895
72		84.7993	maybe seven, eight years of age.	86.3714
73	DTA_int_03	86.5579	[Mm-hm.]	86.7904
74	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	86.7476	[And] in fact, I have several periods in my life when	89.0839
75		89.7965	uh, before twelve that I- I owned a tent	92.1871
77		92.5457	thanks to my parents.	93.4357
78	DTA_int_03	93.7167	Uh-huh.	94.0073
79	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	94.0348	And I was able to play camp life.	95.6864
80	DTA_int_03	96.1788	Mm-hm.	96.4836
82		97.1694	Did you	97.6425
84		97.9462	ever go out with a scout troop?	99.5876
85	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	99.9125	Oh, yes. After m- after twelve I was an active scouter.	102.9369
86	DTA_int_03	103.2000	Mm-hm.	103.5512
87	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	103.5670	An active scout until I was, uh,	105.7279
89		106.3345	almost thirty.	106.9899
90	DTA_int_03	107.8485	Hm.	108.0381
92		108.6739	Uh,	108.8408
94		109.1051	were you a leader then or just?	110.2776
95	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	110.2399	I became a scout	111.9063
96		112.0195	master. I went through all the ranks, when I was a scout and right up to scout master, and I became a neighborhood commissioner.	117.3226
98		118.4691	And, uh,	119.5335
100		120.6861	I received the Eagle Scout rank, and, uh,	123.0014
102		123.7106	Scout Master's Key.	125.0530
104		126.0993	And I specialize in	127.1388
106		127.3284	leadership training.	128.1481
107	DTA_int_03	128.4662	Mm-hm.	128.8087
109		129.7962	Where would you go	130.6832
111		130.8545	on a	131.3316
113		131.4906	camping trip?	132.1120
114	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	132.2675	Well, i-	132.8509
116		133.2519	depends entirely upon the set up. In the Detroit area we had the Detroit Area Boy Scout Camp at Brighton, Michigan.	139.6557
118		140.3408	/Charles Hall/ Reservation in those days I think.	142.6587
120		143.0655	I was in a troop that was one of the	144.4785
122		145.2091	pioneer troops out there that developed- that helped to develop the program there.	148.4691
124		149.6222	And, um,	150.3379
126		150.9736	course, uh, I-	151.4966
128		151.6740	in the troops that I was a member, we always had our own l-	154.6495
130		154.7841	particular camping- favorite camping spot.	156.9421
132		157.5211	Overnight camps. We would always pick some place w-	159.6616
134		159.9797	we- you know, nearby but just enough to give it that	162.4139
136		162.5485	wilderness aspect.	163.7872
137	DTA_int_03	164.0349	Uh-huh.	164.2827
138	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	165.1788	And, uh,	165.9614
140		167.9647	we weren't able to do the real	169.9921
142		170.1787	things that we would like to have done because of	172.2886
144		172.4293	naturally, money limitations.	174.1316
146		174.5428	But we had some real good scouting.	175.9952
147	DTA_int_03	176.8668	Did you ever hunt?	177.5300
148	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	178.4232	Well I tried that one time.	180.0993
150		180.2553	I'm not too much- I liked, uh,	182.0911
152		183.5317	the idea of hunting, but I think I'd rather do it with a camera or something like that. I don't like the idea of killing animals just for the sport of killing.	189.7503
153	DTA_int_03	190.0378	[Yeah.]	190.2336
154	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	190.2091	[I] went one time and	191.3591
155		192.0045	it doesn't appeal to me.	192.9338
156	DTA_int_03	193.7352	What	193.9646
158		194.1267	kind of weapons did you carry?	195.5068
159	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	195.7748	Oh, of course I mean, hunting I went with a rifle.	198.0228
160	DTA_int_03	198.2946	Mm-hm.	198.5732
161	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	199.4018	Uh, thirty thirty rifle.	201.0198
163		201.7106	But that was for a week, more or less to be with the fellas that I work with.	204.8902
165		205.1418	But-	205.4625
166	DTA_int_03	205.4691	Those are pretty.	206.3456
167	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	206.6466	but, uh,	207.5974
169		208.9340	I don't think too much of hunting	210.4112
171		211.2764	just for the sake of killing animals.	212.6497
172	DTA_int_03	213.2675	Yeah.	213.5179
174		214.3253	Um,	214.6404
176		216.3776	what	216.5852
178		217.6556	kinds of	218.0655
180		218.2521	of ca- craf-	219.0779
182		219.2124	crafts did you go in for? How much- how much equipment did you carry with you and what did you make for [yourself?]	224.9341
183	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	224.8393	[Well] in the outfits that I was with, we were always	227.6239
184		228.9277	typed and	229.4734
186		230.2704	developed our own equipment. We prepared our own	232.7229
188		232.8667	tents or made our own tents.	234.1635
189	DTA_int_03	234.4812	Did you?	234.7859
190	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	235.0195	And, uh,	235.9889
192		236.3407	everything we did, we did it from	237.8696
194		238.3131	right from the beginning. Otherwise we-	240.0228
196		240.5947	we build a campsite, we use the natural material on hand.	243.4021
198		243.5332	And we were the oldest scout- <laugh> scouters, that old [type scouting.] We don't have that now.	247.3018
199	DTA_int_03	245.7967	[Yeah. Uh-huh.]	246.5157
200	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	248.0043	And	248.5151
201	DTA_int_03	248.7822	It's [hard to find.]	249.5852
202	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	248.9775	[before-]	249.3929
203		249.6219	oh, yes it's hard to find now.	250.9003
205		251.5243	And, uh, we made our own knapsacks and things like that.	254.4753
206	DTA_int_03	255.3776	[What did you] use for it?	256.2305
207	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	255.4506	[And-]	255.7075
208	DTA_int_03	256.7137	On the-	257.0504
209	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	257.3591	Well [we used to get-]	258.1910
210	DTA_int_03	257.6629	[/??/]	258.1210
211	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	258.3225	yeah, we used it for making tents, we use to get this unbleached cotton.	261.5122
213		261.7534	Uh,	262.2397
215		262.7642	forget what they call it now but, uh, it was unbleached cotton. And we'd take paraffin and- blocks of paraffin and	267.3898
217		268.4201	with a warm iron just	269.6313
219		269.8423	press it right into the,	270.9148
221		271.2855	uh,	271.8055
223		272.1603	cloth and that water-proofed it for [us.]	274.2244
224	DTA_int_03	274.1449	[Mm-hm.]	274.4235
225	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	275.1358	And for heavier knap or night- knapsacks and things like that, we usually used an Indian	279.6314
227		279.8696	frame,	280.3956
229		281.1633	uh,	281.7206
230	DTA_int_03	281.7812	Oh.	282.2246
231	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	282.2950	that's a stiff [back.]	283.2913
232	DTA_int_03	283.1484	[Oh.]	283.4854
233	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	283.7076	And then just	284.3866
235		284.6527	kind of made a canvas bag	286.1020
237		286.6250	to set on there, it- l- we laced on there.	288.2797
238	DTA_int_03	288.7564	Mm-hm.	289.0378
239	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	289.0500	A very practical type of, um,	290.9433
241		291.3347	of, uh,	292.0531
243		292.1724	knapsack.	292.7871
244	DTA_int_03	293.1327	That was the long pack with the [/?/?]	294.7686
245	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	294.3404	[Yes.]	294.7166
246		294.8115	Mm-hm.	295.2060
247	DTA_int_03	297.0931	Uh,	297.3256
249		298.0347	what did you sew them with?	298.9676
251		299.1297	when you were in /?/.	299.8148
252	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	301.3039	Well I had a good wife.	302.6863
253	DTA_int_03	303.3680	[<laugh>]	304.1085
254	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	303.3955	[<laugh>]	303.6945
256		303.8604	[No, I had] a few cooperative mothers. [<laugh>]	306.2277
257	DTA_int_03	305.8209	[Yeah.]	306.0717
258		306.5178	Yeah.	306.7733
260		307.9920	Uh,	308.3040
262		308.4478	was- was this strictly segregated with the guys?	311.0007
263	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	311.0655	Yes, scouting was segregated. Although, uh,	313.3559
265		313.6189	I was in an outfit that, uh,	315.2736
267		315.9124	that- in segregation and the racial matters, you reach a point where no-	319.0990
269		319.2886	people no longer see your color.	320.7322
270	DTA_int_03	320.8594	/Really/?	321.2654
271	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	321.2858	And when you are-	322.0867
273		322.4690	reach a certain	323.2520
275		323.7567	development and s- uh, progress,	325.4660
277		325.8942	and they don't see you as a Negro or as an Indian or Chinese,	328.4415
279		328.7718	you're in a program and you're in- excelling in that program so you get- there you are. So	332.6873
281		333.0992	our boys,	333.9410
283		334.6128	although all of our Negro boys where y- were used	337.4568
285		337.5730	primarily as a training	339.3103
287		339.7839	group.	340.0898
289		340.5730	We trained	341.2061
291		341.4569	other	341.8734
293		342.3317	troops and obviously	343.5914
295		343.9370	we weren't training Negro troops.	345.4601
296	DTA_int_03	345.6065	Yeah.	345.8271
297	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	346.3222	And I wasn't training Negro leaders, I was training all white leaders.	349.1815
299		350.1450	So, uh,	350.8912
301		351.1206	we didn't have the feeling of being segregated so much. And we didn't-	353.9188
303		354.3439	although we, uh,	355.0405
305		355.1815	scouting in those days were definitely set upon a racial pattern.	357.6985
306	DTA_int_03	358.0255	Yeah.	358.3100
308		359.1541	Um,	359.5256
310		359.8545	was it	360.2456
312		360.6891	in advance of the city, or what's this about?	362.8573
313	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	363.3255	Pardon?	363.6708
314	DTA_int_03	364.0072	Was s-	364.5781
316		364.8911	was scouting in advance of the city on-	366.9888
318		368.0930	on	368.3224
320		368.6083	integration, in other words?	369.8970
322		371.3713	Uh,	371.7903
324		372.0289	were you	372.6646
326		372.9980	according more respect	374.1725
328		374.3438	in-	374.6496
330		374.8209	in the scouting	375.6493
332		376.2121	than you might be	377.2864
333	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	377.6955	Well /?/-	378.1634
334	DTA_int_03	378.4020	early- i- I don't [know] Detroit, and [I don't know how-]	380.9896
335	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	379.4201	[Y-]	379.5971
337		380.3193	[<sigh> Yeah.]	381.3255
338	DTA_int_03	381.3664	how decent it was to be a [Negro.]	382.7943
339	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	382.6600	[Uh-huh.]	382.9082
340		383.5823	Well I don't think, uh, it's very difficult for, uh,	386.1388
342		387.1053	me to say that, uh, at anytime I ever felt there was a really-	390.1512
344		391.0469	I was involved in a racial pattern of any type, and it was	393.6463
346		394.4935	uh, difficult for me.	395.7964
347	DTA_int_03	396.7319	Mm-hm.	397.0584
348	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	397.2977	So I don't have those concepts.	398.8433
350		399.4509	But, uh,	400.2999
352		401.0471	in scouting, uh, the people- the boys that I was	404.1521
354		404.3315	working with, that parental group I was working with	406.5699
356		406.9951	were all from homeowners	408.3317
357	DTA_int_03	408.6279	Uh-huh.	408.9491
358	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	409.0928	and you might say that, uh, a middle class	411.6554
359	DTA_int_03	411.9032	Yeah.	412.0902
360	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	412.2341	people. A middle class Negro,	413.8912
362		414.2215	uh,	414.4051
364		414.5610	culture.	415.0683
366		415.7657	And, uh, there were,	417.0442
368		417.8604	uh,	418.2916
370		418.5852	mostly had either very decent jobs or they were	421.2335
372		421.3467	professional people.	422.2116
374		422.9616	So there was enough	423.9558
376		424.2183	income and enough of	425.4049
378		425.6282	things to work with, so that we didn't really feel that, uh,	428.3866
380		429.1940	we were being restricted too much. And in scouting,	431.5028
382		431.7842	even though the troop was	432.9931
384		433.4965	the-	433.6311
386		433.8727	uh, groups or the troops were set up on a racial pattern,	436.8238
388		437.2153	we were	437.6129
390		437.9463	integrated in all the scouting movement and programs.	441.2582
392		442.0622	So there wasn't a Negro camp or anything like that, or a Negro camp life.	445.7847
393	DTA_int_03	446.0654	Mm-hm.	446.4065
395		447.5729	[It's-]	447.9212
396	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	447.6616	[Good morning,] /RD-NAME-2/.	448.6755
397	DTA_int_03	451.7901	Um,	452.2966
398	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	453.3102	Mm-hm.	453.7013
399	DTA_int_03	454.1846	did you have any pets when you were growing up?	456.2395
400	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	456.7319	Usually I had an animal of some type.	458.3132
402		458.4875	Always a dog.	459.3102
403	DTA_int_03	459.7135	Mm-hm.	460.1286
404	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	461.5854	Or a cat.	462.1084
405	DTA_int_03	462.6889	Who was your favorite dog?	463.7626
406	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	464.4997	What?	464.7261
407	DTA_int_03	464.9493	When you were a kid?	465.5688
408	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	466.0775	I didn't have any favorite dogs, they were all favorites.	467.8088
410		468.0533	Probably the one I	469.2457
412		469.3620	best remember was	470.4141
414		470.8606	my first dog, was a large collie.	472.7596
416		473.4233	And possibly the last dog that I had,	475.9002
418		476.1480	when I married,	476.7811
420		477.3072	which my wife took over. <laugh>	478.8483
421	DTA_int_03	479.2459	Is that [the-]	480.0212
422	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	479.7199	[He change-] he changed [his loyalty.]	480.9705
423	DTA_int_03	480.4243	[a hundred and] thirty [pound-]	481.6464
424	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	481.5706	[No,] no, no, no, [no.] This is- we've a- we always have	484.1264
425	DTA_int_03	482.4018	[yeah.]	482.6732
426	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	485.0776	dogs, cats,	485.9096
428		486.0961	and everything in our family. We always have had. My wife and I both love animals, so we have a	489.9980
430		490.3344	Siamese cat'll be around if you manage to see him.	492.5881
432		493.6861	And, uh, we have this	494.7108
434		494.9279	police dog out here, and we	496.5210
436		496.9278	had a canary until the cat moved in.	498.7869
437	DTA_int_03	499.1295	<laugh>	499.8391
438	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	499.9675	And, uh, we have goldfish.	501.5637
440		502.8024	So we al- always had some type of <laugh>	505.0653
442		505.2151	pet life around us.	506.2214
443	DTA_int_03	506.8239	How do you find the Siamese behaves?	508.3833
444	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	509.1847	Oh, it's	509.7291
446		509.8674	you see the picture of that darn cat?	511.1478
447	DTA_int_03	512.2061	Uh, [no I] didn't. I have a Siamese.	514.6447
448	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	512.6955	[/unintelligible/]	512.9952
449		514.6770	Oh, you have a Siamese? Well we-	515.7750
451		515.9891	this one here is a-	516.9276
453		517.7748	a beautiful creature, it's thoroughbred.	519.4147
455		519.6426	And my- our daughter raises- breeds 'em.	522.1576
456	DTA_int_03	522.5361	Mm-hm.	522.8249
457	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	523.5699	And, uh,	524.3913
459		524.8667	it's quite a- quite- it's a male cat.	526.5516
461		527.3162	But I've never seen anything as affectionate as that cat, except it has one particular	531.2766
463		531.7349	trait that it was trained	533.1514
465		534.1141	by	534.4750
467		534.6891	my daughter and her husband.	535.8115
469		536.9248	Uh,	537.5029
471		538.2182	to ride your shoulder.	539.0685
473		540.9429	So if you're standing and basically he decides that he wants to move,	544.1784
475		544.3589	ride a-	544.7075
477		546.1756	uh, whether you have on sufficient, uh, articles to	549.1550
479		549.4845	burry the [claw into, or whether he uses] your skin, it's all the same to him.	553.2702
480	DTA_int_03	549.9551	[<laugh>]	551.2482
481		553.7228	Yeah.	554.1051
482	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	554.2091	And he will be around in a few minutes. He sleeps with us.	556.6739
483	DTA_int_03	557.1816	Uh-huh.	557.4569
484	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	558.0196	And he goes from bed to bed.	559.4927
486		559.8513	And, uh,	560.6364
488		560.9799	generally	561.4203
490		562.3436	runs the household.	563.3316
492		563.5578	And [including-]	564.2337
493	DTA_int_03	563.8698	[/unintelligible/?]	564.4735
494	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	565.2610	Yes he does.	566.2122
496		566.5853	Some awful [sounds.]	567.9429
497	DTA_int_03	567.6829	[<laugh>]	568.7289
498	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	569.6740	Awful sounds. Does yours do that?	571.3252
499	DTA_int_03	571.6280	Yeah. Oh yeah.	572.2000
500	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	572.4599	[Yeah.]	572.8025
501	DTA_int_03	572.6954	[/Now] I'm a little [paranoid/.]	573.7101
502	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	573.2211	[Mine's] very noisy.	574.4078
503	DTA_int_03	574.8788	Um,	575.2968
505		575.8300	did you ever	576.5086
507		577.6066	keep any wild pets?	578.8361
509		579.9215	Like a raccoon or a skunk?	581.1694
510	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	581.3651	Uh, no. I don't think so.	583.0102
512		583.7840	Don't remember ever	584.5425
514		584.9493	having any.	585.6967
515	DTA_int_03	586.7473	Oh.	586.9635
516	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	587.1449	Uh, we lived up in Brighton, Michigan.	589.0499
518		589.3466	Possibly, there might've been a tendency, we had been able to- to, uh,	592.4873
520		593.0103	adopted a wild	594.0533
522		594.6309	[animal.]	595.0286
523	DTA_int_03	594.6768	[Mm-hm.]	595.0730
524	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	595.6219	But, uh,	596.2948
526		596.6721	we haven't.	597.2236
528		597.7166	Never have.	598.3864
529	DTA_int_03	599.8147	Um,	600.1297
531		600.6523	when-	600.9857
533		601.3986	did you have any	602.4058
535		602.6801	beliefs when you were a kid about how you could get a wish?	605.4783
537		606.6921	Like, when you- was- was there any situation that seemed to call for a wish?	610.1050
538	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	612.4417	I, uh,	613.3252
540		613.9583	don't know. I've always been a	615.2062
542		615.3958	daydreamer.	616.1635
543	DTA_int_03	616.5179	Mm-hm.	616.8482
544	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	617.5027	But	617.7780
546		618.5029	my daydreams for the most part have been fulfilled. So they weren't directly-	623.6679
548		624.5273	it wasn't directly wishful thinking, it was more or less a directed ambition. A [latent ambition.]	629.1388
549	DTA_int_03	628.2885	[Mm-hm.]	628.6455
550	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	629.9309	So everything that I've dreamed of has- I dreamed of as a kid, with the exception of possibly being in the Navy,	635.1479
552		635.8789	has been fulfilled.	636.9325
553	DTA_int_03	637.1723	Were you in the service?	638.0111
554	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	638.2519	No.	638.5272
556		638.6771	Was too old.	639.2796
557	DTA_int_03	639.6248	Mm.	639.9281
558	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	640.4445	Too old or too young.	641.3590
559	DTA_int_03	641.9078	Yeah.	642.1756
561		642.3740	<laugh> Wrong war.	643.1906
562	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	643.2059	Mm-hm.	643.5454
564		643.9369	Wrong war.	644.5211
565	DTA_int_03	645.1940	So	645.6913
567		646.1876	in your family there wasn't much fuss made about chicken bones, and	649.4991
569		650.4171	anything?	650.8338
571		651.2058	The breast bone or the	652.2151
573		652.6983	collar bone?	653.2498
574	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	653.9370	Now why'd you bring that up?	654.8450
575	DTA_int_03	655.4231	I [was-]	655.8635
576	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	655.6372	[I don't] see the point.	656.5150
577	DTA_int_03	656.7352	oh, as- as a wish-	657.8267
579		658.1814	wish [thing.]	658.8581
580	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	658.6739	[Oh,] you mean that little wish-	659.7413
581		659.9462	oh, this w- well this was done as a traditional thing without any concept of it meaning anything. [This w-]	664.8852
582	DTA_int_03	664.5515	[Yeah, that's] what I meant. A tradition, [a situation, that seem to call for a wish.]	668.2951
583	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	666.0716	[a- yeah.	666.5728
585		666.9031	[Yeah, this is just- yeah it w-] we just	668.7688
586		668.8881	had the breast bone in the chicken, so okay, whoever got it	671.4171
588		671.5731	broke it. We still do.	672.6156
589	DTA_int_03	672.9215	Mm-hm.	673.2437
590	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	673.4751	But, uh, there's no	675.0018
592		675.2551	element of superstition or element of, uh, thinking that	677.8544
594		677.9707	such things would come true. This is more or less just a-	680.2397
596		680.8483	<laugh> something that was	682.1233
598		682.2732	traditional, that's all. Part of, uh, American culture if anything.	685.7993
599	DTA_int_03	685.8543	Yeah.	686.1449
601		686.9034	But I don't- I don't think anybody really [believes.]	689.1693
602	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	688.9399	[Yeah.]	689.3345
603	DTA_int_03	689.8086	Did you have any other situations like	691.5607
605		691.9338	that where you	692.5971
607		693.0528	felt obliged to at least try to think up a wish?	695.6680
608	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	697.0927	Not that I can recall, unless it was the old favorite one of blowing out the candle on birthday cake.	701.9370
609	DTA_int_03	702.3163	Uh-huh.	702.6196
610	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	702.6554	Which we still do.	703.7136
611	DTA_int_03	703.8665	Yeah.	704.2264
612	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	704.9676	And, this again of course if a part of our American culture.	707.7443
613	DTA_int_03	708.3469	Indeed.	708.8144
615		710.4813	Uh, could you tell me about school?	712.0010
617		712.7564	What did you study?	713.6454
618	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	714.0165	Well I went	714.4994
620		714.7174	to elementary school in Detroit.	716.1235
622		717.1756	And I went up to tenth grade in	719.1235
624		719.3314	high school before dropping out.	721.6606
626		722.8453	And after I married,	724.1753
628		724.7197	my wife and I both went back to school and finished night school.	727.6249
629	DTA_int_03	727.8726	Mm-hm.	728.2213
630	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	728.6526	And, uh, we've had some,	730.6364
632		731.0806	uh,	731.7107
634		732.8266	formal	733.4261
636		734.4109	schooling after that. U of D, uh, but	736.6310
638		736.8604	this has been more or less an adult interest level rather than,	739.3527
640		739.9093	um, matriculating for a degree or anything like that.	742.2365
641	DTA_int_03	742.2365	Yeah.	742.4614
642	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	743.7933	But, uh-	744.7532
643	DTA_int_03	744.8664	What did you take in elementary school?	746.5292
644	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	747.0441	the same old thing everyone else takes, you know, reading, and writing, and arithmetic. And, uh, a little bit of- uh,	752.1785
646		752.8269	of physical ed and, uh,	754.7717
648		755.5455	n- I think	756.0899
650		756.4875	both my wife and I /though/-	757.8818
652		758.5241	or had an interest in debating and- and research work.	762.0288
653	DTA_int_03	762.4111	Mm-hm.	762.7217
654	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	762.7217	We went to school together.	763.7778
655	DTA_int_03	764.1173	Oh, did [you?]	764.5401
656	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	764.3620	[<laugh>]	765.3372
657	DTA_int_03	766.2365	You mean from [grade] school, on up?	767.4457
658	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	766.6916	[Uh-]	766.9216
660		767.3787	uh-huh.	767.8483
661	DTA_int_03	770.8024	Uh,	771.1175
663		773.1020	what to you does a normal classroom have in it?	775.6402
664	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	778.2303	Well, <sigh>	779.0806
666		779.2060	my concept hasn't changed any from what I see now in the classroom.	782.9064
668		783.0257	Possibly they have a little more	784.3496
670		785.0286	decorations around on the wall- a few m- few more posters and things like that. Uh,	790.2242
671	DTA_int_03	790.7014	But [essentially the same?]	792.1083
672	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	790.8512	[I-]	791.0164
674		791.5577	[I think the visual] aid- there are few more visual aids now, but [essentially,]	795.1144
675	DTA_int_03	794.4170	[Mm-hm.]	794.7494
676	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	795.7899	uh, I can remember in school back in nineteen seventeen,	799.1325
678		799.9002	when we were learning	800.7657
680		801.4141	the alphabet.	802.1264
682		802.2426	I don't think there's a heck of a lot of difference.	803.9553
683	DTA_int_03	804.3954	<laugh> [Okay.]	805.3055
684	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	805.0652	[And the] way they were- and the visual aids used then are the visual aids used now.	808.1263
685	DTA_int_03	808.4720	Where would the teacher write?	809.4806
686	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	810.3560	Blackboard.	810.8664
687	DTA_int_03	811.5025	And where would you sit?	812.3617
688	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	813.5181	Well, uh,	814.4977
690		814.9552	ordinary- under ordinary circumstances I was one of those guys that like to get right up under the teacher if possible.	818.8514
691	DTA_int_03	819.0257	Mm-hm.	819.3522
692	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	819.5880	So I was usually in the front of the classroom.	821.4629
694		821.5669	Wherever it was.	822.2031
695	DTA_int_03	822.8908	So /?/	823.5362
697		824.0378	You-	824.3106
698	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	824.5638	I had a [high interest l-]	825.4079
699	DTA_int_03	824.9523	[/inaudible/.]	825.4259
700	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	825.5213	uh, I had a high interest level in what I was,	827.0959
702		827.3100	uh, being taught in school.	828.5089
703	DTA_int_03	828.7410	Mm-hm.	829.0588
705		829.2976	Yeah.	829.5454
707		830.3436	Um,	830.7351
709		832.3588	if you	832.8053
711		832.9896	walked outside a classroom, where would you be?	835.0263
712	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	836.8391	Well under ordinary circumstances it would be either the library-	840.1970
713	DTA_int_03	840.9337	Uh-huh.	841.2703
714	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	841.6860	playground.	842.0622
715	DTA_int_03	842.5822	Mm-hm.	842.9334
717		843.7410	Uh,	844.0196
719		844.2364	what-	844.4322
721		844.6279	what do you call the area around the school?	846.5064
722	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	848.2549	The area around the school?	849.3407
723	DTA_int_03	849.5177	Yeah. The, um,	850.4291
725		851.1968	the-	851.4170
727		851.5944	[the grounds.]	852.2398
728	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	851.6801	[/?/]	851.8528
730		852.1021	[uh,] the playground, [and]	853.4281
731	DTA_int_03	853.3129	[Mm-hm.]	853.5611
732	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	853.6211	usually they- rounds the school.	855.2735
733	DTA_int_03	855.4137	Yeah.	855.5942
735		856.1080	What does a playground normally have on it?	857.9235
736	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	858.9887	Well it depends entirely on the e- the school system.	861.7440
737	DTA_int_03	862.1294	Yeah.	862.3435
738	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	862.7717	Depends on	863.3589
740		863.6403	the neighborhood and the school system. Some neighborhoods,	866.1234
742		866.3895	some systems, supply their	867.8755
744		868.8757	playground with, uh,	869.9156
746		870.4422	a great number of, uh,	871.6952
748		872.4048	uh, physical e- uh,	874.0560
750		874.7380	uh,	875.1850
752		876.3193	equipment for,	877.4475
754		877.9582	uh,	878.4109
756		878.5730	exercise. Others	879.8388
758		880.3282	tend to develop stuff like they have over there, more [for]	882.9275
759	DTA_int_03	882.8583	[Oh.]	883.1539
760	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	883.1783	playing, you know, games.	884.3222
761	DTA_int_03	884.4140	Mm-hm.	884.7550
762	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	885.2520	But of course in my day	886.4628
764		886.6340	in school,	887.3100
766		887.6189	we only had, um,	888.8235
768		889.5729	swings and a	890.9156
770		891.5211	teeter totters, and, uh,	892.8695
772		893.2274	possibly a few other	894.3805
774		895.1722	Indian bar things, I guess the were called. Where you swung over head and	898.4658
776		898.9001	hung by your knees, and things like that.	900.4722
777	DTA_int_03	900.7165	Mm-hm.	901.0040
778	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	901.8206	But, [uh, that's changed some.]	902.9676
779	DTA_int_03	901.9093	[Do you- you didn't have those] things you climb on now?	904.1386
780	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	904.4903	Well we did in high school, we had some of the, uh, climb- rope climbing,	907.8848
782		908.2824	uh,	908.7045
784		908.8758	bar- uh, things like that in high school. But	910.9735
786		911.5088	on the playgrounds for the elementary schools	913.5117
788		914.0072	usually the equipment was more or less standardized in Detroit.	916.9491
789	DTA_int_03	917.1387	Mm-hm.	917.4101
790	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	917.8421	Uh, at least in the neighborhoods that I was able to make observations.	920.7572
791	DTA_int_03	921.4080	Yeah. Do you have any special name for the	923.4262
793		923.5699	rather elaborate system of bars that you'll find on many playgrounds now?	927.4783
794	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	928.0376	No I do not.	928.9735
795	DTA_int_03	929.8727	Um,	930.2936
797		931.7533	what-	931.9919
799		932.1601	what do the kids	932.9798
801		933.8235	slide down on?	934.5392
802	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	935.3925	Slides.	936.1266
803	DTA_int_03	936.1266	A slide?	936.6056
805		937.8512	Uh,	938.2121
807		939.6492	did you ever have a teacher who hollered a lot?	941.2862
808	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	943.3741	Not in the elementary schools.	945.7990
810		946.9429	Uh, they did I possibly don't remember them being objectionable to the [point where] it bothered me.	952.9215
811	DTA_int_03	951.6431	[Mm-hm.]	951.9710
812	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	953.9767	Uh, we have a	955.0865
814		955.2303	pet	955.5300
816		955.7380	teacher,	956.4099
818		957.1541	uh,	957.7226
820		958.0713	she was sixth grade teacher in the school.	959.8024
822		960.4263	And her name was Ms. /RD-NAME-2/. And my wife and I always laugh about, remember she had a pet cliche,	966.0960
824		966.7012	pick up the litter and shut up the fuss.	968.2519
825	DTA_int_03	968.3619	[<laugh>]	969.2214
826	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	969.0899	[So] we still say that. Pick up the litter and shut up the fuss. These kids get a big dose of that.	973.0009
827	DTA_int_03	973.3771	Mm-hm.	973.6034
829		974.6036	[Was she a] good teacher?	975.5144
830	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	974.6831	[From our-]	975.0108
831		975.7654	exceptionally good. Back in those days all teachers were good. They were all dedicated [teachers.]	979.3740
832	DTA_int_03	979.2609	[Mm-hm.]	979.5497
833	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	980.1693	Uh,	980.7779
835		981.0202	and they were a different breed than	982.8236
837		983.2702	a large percentage of our teachers now-	984.5972
839		984.8602	now.	985.1538
841		985.4505	That is, that they were not interested in the paycheck, they were n- interested in their profession. And so many of them of course	990.0776
843		990.3835	never married for that reason.	991.6371
845		992.4323	And teaching to them was uh, a real profession.	994.6804
847		995.4078	And, uh,	996.3712
849		997.5851	they were dedicated people.	998.5095
850	DTA_int_03	999.5268	You didn't get these	1000.3332
852		1000.4872	/dippy little things with wondering where's their [certificate/?]	1003.0359
853	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1002.9856	[No, no, no.] Uh,	1004.2264
854		1004.6127	we have	1005.3682
856		1005.6889	since	1006.2823
858		1006.8175	felt that a good many of our teachers now are-	1009.0406
860		1009.8879	are not dedicated to the [profession.] They're only using it as a means of an income and a means of an end.	1014.4813
861	DTA_int_03	1011.3097	[Yeah.]	1011.5329
862		1014.7960	Mm-hm.	1015.1446
863	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1016.6617	However in high school, I can definitely remember,	1019.1234
865		1019.4353	um,	1020.0746
867		1022.1234	two instances,	1022.9981
869		1023.4936	one in	1024.0162
871		1024.3851	one house,	1025.0867
873		1025.2610	a youngster before married.	1026.3835
875		1027.1355	I had a	1027.8297
877		1028.4414	a homeroom teacher that	1029.5972
879		1030.0101	liked to	1030.4841
881		1030.7349	come along and	1031.3527
883		1031.8605	pick up the youngsters, you know, and hold 'em up like that and shake 'em, even if they'd bruise up a guy.	1035.9306
885		1036.5269	Course now he would've	1037.3436
887		1037.5301	been arrested for assault and battery for doing the same thing.	1039.6673
888	DTA_int_03	1040.5424	[Yeah.]	1040.8054
889	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1040.5974	[Yeah,] yeah. But, uh,	1042.2547
890		1042.5269	uh- he was an object- um, an /oject/- a- an objectionable person to me.	1046.0224
892		1046.4873	I didn't like him.	1047.0960
894		1047.7960	I didn't like him because of his man-handling of his students. And I've always felt that if he'd	1051.3740
896		1051.8328	done that to me, I might've tried to kick him or something.	1053.7623
897	DTA_int_03	1054.3312	Did he ever	1054.7074
898	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1054.9672	[Yeah.]	1055.2255
899	DTA_int_03	1054.9918	[pull anything] on you?	1055.8115
900	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1056.3468	No.	1056.6644
902		1056.9366	People don't do that to me.	1057.8940
903	DTA_int_03	1058.3497	[<laugh> /?/]	1059.3295
904	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1058.9033	[<laugh>]	1059.0837
905	DTA_int_03	1060.6854	Who was the smartest kind if your class?	1062.0104
907		1062.2886	Were you?	1062.5482
908	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1064.2640	Oh, well y- it-	1065.2362
910		1065.8969	that's a r-	1066.3648
912		1066.7196	unfair question.	1067.4751
913	DTA_int_03	1067.6464	Okay.	1068.0562
915		1068.2729	Uh.	1068.5617
916	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1069.7838	Who was the smartest k-?	1070.6096
917	DTA_int_03	1071.6308	Yeah.	1071.8418
918	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1071.9519	Uh,	1072.1538
920		1073.3130	well I would say I would rate in the top	1074.7164
922		1076.1600	group.	1076.4873
923	DTA_int_03	1076.8757	Mm-hm.	1077.1660
924	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1077.4630	I was always more or less an A or B student in school.	1079.7259
925	DTA_int_03	1080.4446	Yeah, it's-	1080.8235
927		1081.3924	this is a hard question to ask [to somebody,] right, [because]	1083.8724
928	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1082.5974	[Mm-hm.]	1082.9573
930		1083.7439	[Yeah.]	1083.9152
931	DTA_int_03	1084.1630	depending on, they're reluctant to [answer] if it's them. (laughing)	1086.3284
932	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1085.4091	[Yeah.]	1085.7066
933	DTA_int_03	1086.9030	Uh,	1087.2364
935		1088.5454	was there any-	1089.3523
937		1090.8542	any special	1091.7779
939		1091.9361	reward or any special	1093.1171
941		1093.2455	favors you got for being bright?	1094.8233
943		1097.1509	Could you do things that other-	1098.3117
945		1098.4336	[privileges?]	1099.1354
946	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1098.9672	[No] I s- possibly had more work to do, that's all.	1101.1833
947	DTA_int_03	1101.4723	Yeah. [<laugh>]	1102.4689
948	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1101.9586	[<laugh>]	1102.5484
949		1103.3804	I don't remember I had any privileges, I had more work. <laugh>	1105.8849
950	DTA_int_03	1105.9491	Yeah.	1106.2030
952		1106.9064	Who was the dumbest kid in the class?	1108.3282
953	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1108.7748	This I don't recall.	1109.6556
954	DTA_int_03	1110.8668	What did the teacher do to-	1111.9797
956		1112.4477	uh, with the-	1113.2459
958		1113.3866	with the really	1114.0835
960		1114.2059	slow learners?	1114.9980
961	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1115.3804	<ts> And this I don't remember.	1116.5824
962	DTA_int_03	1116.7842	Mm-hm.	1117.0774
964		1118.1387	What time did you get out of school? Do you remember?	1120.0834
965	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1120.7931	Oh, back in those days I think three o'clock, three thirty was the	1123.0785
967		1123.7931	school closing	1124.5637
969		1124.9401	[time.]	1125.1358
970	DTA_int_03	1125.1175	[And] fifteen minutes after three thirty is what time?	1127.3834
971	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1127.7933	Three forty-five.	1128.5273
972	DTA_int_03	1128.9310	<laugh> Alright, put it terms of four.	1131.2245
973	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1132.4781	Hm?	1132.7105
974	DTA_int_03	1133.5914	Put it- if it- it's three forty-five, or it's a quarter?	1135.9540
975	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1136.0653	Quarter to four.	1136.6281
976	DTA_int_03	1136.8024	Mm-hm.	1137.0607
978		1138.6922	[Uh.]	1138.9430
979	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1138.7625	[I can't] see that question. What's that?	1140.2429
980		1140.3621	[<laugh>]	1141.6463
981	DTA_int_03	1140.6302	[Oh.]	1140.8871
982		1142.0439	[People in the north] say, quarter to. People in the /east/ say, quarter of.	1144.7417
983	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1142.0470	[<laugh>]	1142.5002
984	DTA_int_03	1145.2152	Or quarter-	1145.7739
986		1146.1878	[quarter] til, or something like that.	1147.5943
987	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1146.2000	[Hm.]	1146.4692
988	DTA_int_03	1148.1020	<ts> /that's it/.	1148.7072
990		1149.2948	Yeah, little words.	1149.9887
991	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1150.1264	[Mm-hm.]	1150.3986
992	DTA_int_03	1150.2854	[Um,] <laugh> and sometimes we're chasing [words.] (laughing)	1152.9317
993	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1152.8515	[Yes.]	1153.4139
994	DTA_int_03	1154.9064	Uh, you didn't	1155.8026
996		1155.9647	belong to any group	1157.0096
998		1157.4354	except the scouts, did you?	1158.6994
999	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1159.6188	Oh, I was an altar boy.	1160.7565
1000	DTA_int_03	1161.5089	Mm-hm.	1161.8151
1001	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1161.8144	For years.	1162.4781
1002	DTA_int_03	1165.3986	Did the-	1165.8910
1004		1166.0745	did the altar boys have-	1167.7374
1006		1168.3924	have any	1168.9277
1008		1170.0991	special coherence as a group?	1171.7809
1009	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1172.3406	Yes, we were	1173.1541
1011		1173.3224	quite a tight little group.	1174.4536
1013		1175.7045	[Uh,]	1176.0257
1014	DTA_int_03	1175.7198	[Was there] one person that everybody listened to?	1177.7124
1015		1178.0714	In the-	1178.4079
1016	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1178.5975	Yes.	1179.0721
1017	DTA_int_03	1179.4386	who would that person be?	1180.2918
1019		1180.6005	Yeah. <laugh> Why?	1182.8645
1021		1183.7013	Do you know?	1184.0225
1022	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1185.0777	Possibly, I've always been the leader?	1186.3374
1023	DTA_int_03	1186.7503	Mm-hm.	1186.9369
1025		1188.5181	Uh,	1188.8374
1027		1189.8543	was it possible	1190.8010
1029		1190.9563	for	1191.2184
1031		1191.9799	new people to crash the group?	1193.4599
1033		1194.1450	To get into it?	1194.8633
1034	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1196.6837	Not too easy. We were a established bunch.	1198.3343
1035	DTA_int_03	1198.6860	<laugh>	1199.4218
1037		1200.5059	Yeah.	1200.7831
1039		1201.0428	Yeah.	1201.3171
1041		1202.7382	Uh,	1203.0379
1043		1203.8484	if you could do it all over again,	1205.3956
1045		1206.2245	would-	1206.4539
1047		1206.7049	would you do anything different?	1207.7963
1048	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1208.7229	Yes, I would've possibly go in for a PhD.	1211.2676
1049	DTA_int_03	1211.8391	Yeah.	1212.0593
1050	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1212.9371	[Definitely.]	1213.6402
1051	DTA_int_03	1213.0609	[/inaudible/]	1213.4866
1052	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1213.7594	Hm?	1214.0837
1054		1216.2181	Inherently and by nature, a teacher.	1218.3927
1056		1219.8237	Oh, well I think uh, possibly if I've ever had any unfulfilled realities,	1224.5334
1058		1225.8084	I would've been teaching on a college level.	1228.2425
1059	DTA_int_03	1228.8359	What would you teach? Do you know?	1229.9156
1060	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1230.7200	Oh, I don't know. I've had a yen for philosophy.	1233.1235
1061	DTA_int_03	1233.5640	[Mm-hm.]	1233.8606
1062	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1233.8178	[And] a yen for archaeology.	1235.3678
1063	DTA_int_03	1236.7414	Hm.	1236.9677
1064	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1236.9677	I'd possibly go into one of those two fields.	1238.7614
1065	DTA_int_03	1239.0471	Mm-hm.	1239.3025
1067		1240.4597	Uh, you wouldn't be interested in something like police ed /would you/?	1243.5217
1068	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1244.0225	Hm?	1244.3283
1069	DTA_int_03	1244.4782	You wouldn't be interested in something like police ed, then?	1246.7985
1070	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1247.9859	Yes.	1248.5120
1071	DTA_int_03	1248.6531	And in teaching it?	1249.7829
1072	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1250.0439	[I- yes.]	1250.5730
1073	DTA_int_03	1250.1050	[I just think] of it because I wish we had such a school.	1252.4689
1074	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1252.7992	I- yes, because, uh- of course in those days didn't have any courses like that.	1255.8175
1075	DTA_int_03	1256.0530	Yeah.	1256.2335
1076	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1256.5026	Now let's see, comparatively in the last twenty years. The first one was at Northwestern University.	1260.1480
1077	DTA_int_03	1260.6064	Mm-hm.	1260.8981
1078	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1260.9677	And if I'd've had an opportunity at that time, I would have possibly gone into- see, police work is my-	1265.1846
1080		1265.4109	more or less my	1266.1266
1082		1266.7475	profession.	1267.3985
1084		1268.5669	And, uh, I woulda gone into that.	1270.5147
1085	DTA_int_03	1272.2092	Some of my	1272.8147
1087		1273.2119	best friend- closest friends [are in /police/.]	1275.5089
1088	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1274.6678	[Mm-hm.]	1274.9639
1090		1275.3529	[Mm-hm.]	1275.5945
1091		1275.9768	Yeah, I, uh,	1276.6677
1093		1277.4186	I highly recommend it for anyone that's interested in that line of social work.	1280.5271
1095		1281.2428	I spent eight years as a police officer myself. And, uh,	1284.2917
1097		1285.0197	I had to call in service training courses that I could take Michigan State before they had a police ed course up there.	1289.6280
1098	DTA_int_03	1289.8391	Yeah.	1290.1583
1099	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1290.8117	And, uh,	1291.4676
1101		1291.9735	I definitely would've gone into something like that. No doubt.	1294.4536
1102	DTA_int_03	1296.9921	Um,	1297.3496
1104		1297.5025	but you /unintelligible/ teacher?	1299.0370
1105	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1300.1359	I [wouldn't-]	1300.5056
1106	DTA_int_03	1300.3159	[Rather than the-]	1300.8157
1107	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1300.9949	[I-]	1301.1815
1108	DTA_int_03	1301.0934	[be] in [administration.]	1302.1586
1109	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1301.8574	[well,] uh- let's see, I possibly wouldn't	1303.8665
1110		1304.4476	administration side of education doesn't appeal to me.	1306.8298
1111	DTA_int_03	1307.3772	Mm-hm.	1307.7167
1112	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1307.7595	I like teaching.	1308.4866
1113	DTA_int_03	1308.8327	[Mm-hm.]	1309.1018
1114	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1308.9734	[A-]	1309.1385
1115		1309.3924	In fact I	1310.0286
1117		1312.1661	still do some teaching as a- more or less as a	1314.9626
1119		1315.1171	hobby.	1315.5917
1120	DTA_int_03	1315.8236	Mm-hm.	1316.1342
1121	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1316.3558	I teach a course	1317.3743
1123		1317.5700	at	1318.1607
1125		1318.7013	/RD-WORK-5/ of [course. And] I teach in, uh,	1321.5881
1126	DTA_int_03	1320.0176	[Mm-hm.]	1320.2556
1127	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1321.8940	Christian Doctrine and Lay Theology.	1323.7230
1129		1324.3343	Have been doing that since about nineteen forty-eight.	1326.6557
1130	DTA_int_03	1326.9187	Mm-hm.	1327.1875
1131	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1327.7930	So,	1328.2641
1133		1328.4139	uh,	1328.9186
1135		1329.1113	teaching is just a thing that's	1330.2945
1137		1330.4199	natural.	1330.9714
1139		1331.3497	Course, I married a gal whose family are teachers so we-	1333.7716
1141		1334.1295	[we both] are teachers too. And she teaches a class like I do.	1337.0194
1142	DTA_int_03	1334.1815	[<laugh>]	1334.4034
1143	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1338.4141	And, uh,	1339.2093
1145		1340.3436	I think if we'd had anything at all we'd possibly might have	1343.2732
1147		1343.9094	studied law together.	1345.1660
1148	DTA_int_03	1345.3679	Mm-hm.	1345.7133
1149	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1345.9643	Because	1346.5301
1151		1346.6800	there is a legal trend, uh, tendency there.	1349.1601
1153		1349.6341	Or we've gone in-	1350.4660
1155		1350.5853	she wouldn't have gone in for teaching, I would have.	1352.3803
1157		1352.5393	She doesn't like to teach on a professional level.	1354.7538
1158	DTA_int_03	1355.4904	How do you feel about the	1356.7535
1160		1356.9458	trend of the	1357.6707
1162		1357.9062	recent supreme court decisions?	1359.6535
1163	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1359.8117	On what?	1360.3465
1164	DTA_int_03	1360.4413	Toward, uh-	1361.0552
1166		1361.4445	toward interrogation for-	1362.9483
1167	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1363.2517	Oh, I think it's cramping their style. The only thing I can say for commendable is that it's bringing us in line of the English,	1369.6615
1169		1370.3986	uh,	1370.9400
1171		1371.4722	basic law	1372.4780
1173		1373.0194	for the rights of the individual.	1374.3284
1175		1374.8300	However, this is not practical in the United States.	1377.1999
1177		1377.4936	I don't think we have reached a point where	1379.1019
1179		1379.4995	the citizen is going to respect the law.	1381.5147
1181		1382.0805	For the sake of law itself.	1383.4839
1183		1384.5575	And til we reach that	1385.5026
1185		1385.6647	type of culture and of growth and development,	1388.5882
1187		1389.0684	uh, we still have to enforce the law.	1390.8366
1189		1391.2090	As long as we have to enforce the law, then we must have some privileges and some rights to do it with.	1395.0745
1190	DTA_int_03	1395.3101	Okay.	1395.5626
1191	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1395.6893	I can imagine myself now,	1397.3741
1193		1397.9950	uh,	1398.5058
1195		1398.8881	if I were a police officer now,	1400.3597
1197		1401.2550	that all the things I had learned	1402.4566
1199		1402.7563	would have to be	1403.2457
1201		1404.1877	retrained.	1404.8606
1202	DTA_int_03	1405.6056	[Yeah.]	1405.8420
1203	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1405.7166	[Um,] that is that	1406.6178
1204		1407.7841	I could walk up to a man as a police officer and say-	1410.0675
1206		1410.1664	show him my badge, and say, I wanna talk to you at the station come along.	1412.4170
1208		1413.3987	And he went along. I didn't have to explain to him then	1415.4944
1210		1415.6953	why.	1416.0715
1212		1416.3804	I could keep him,	1417.1354
1214		1417.5820	uh, in the dark for	1419.1479
1216		1420.0410	a couple of days before I call him out, and I'd let him	1422.0195
1218		1422.2091	ponder in there what it is I was talking about. This was standard technique.	1424.7687
1219	DTA_int_03	1425.0837	Mm-hm.	1425.3498
1220	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1425.4997	And I call him out and I'd set him down in the room, and	1427.7320
1222		1428.4201	I could talk to him in any manner in which I wanted to talk to him. After first telling him of course that he had his rights.	1433.3529
1224		1434.0501	Uh. [<laugh>]	1435.8511
1225	DTA_int_03	1435.6658	[Yeah.] <laugh>	1436.5546
1226	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1436.6158	But, uh, that didn't mean much.	1438.3128
1228		1438.6737	And by that time he was scared stiff and would talk. And if he had an attorney, I could	1442.0132
1230		1442.2732	run him from place to place without his attorney knowing where he was.	1445.0378
1232		1445.7442	And, uh,	1446.6189
1234		1447.2333	absolutely and under most circumstances without a court order, refuse to let his	1450.6584
1236		1450.9429	attorney see him.	1451.5393
1237	DTA_int_03	1452.0072	Yeah.	1452.2801
1238	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1452.3773	See.	1452.5822
1240		1452.7963	Now this is all done away with, so.	1454.2120
1242		1454.7411	[I-]	1455.0713
1243	DTA_int_03	1454.7962	[No, I-] I- [some] people have- have suggested that that maybe now it's a question of	1459.1037
1244	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1455.4312	[I think it's-]	1455.7867
1245	DTA_int_03	1459.3893	whether or not the waiver of attorney was done /unintelligible/. (laughing)	1463.5240
1246	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1464.0592	Yeah.	1464.4630
1247	DTA_int_03	1464.4630	<laugh>	1464.6159
1248	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1464.7902	That's right.	1465.3281
1249	DTA_int_03	1465.6248	But they just moved it one step [back.] (laughing)	1467.7347
1250	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1467.2336	[Yeah.]	1467.4527
1251		1468.8603	I don't agree with all the concepts of the court, although I know from English law that this is right.	1473.9917
1253		1475.0927	But, uh, I don't think it's practical at the present time and I think it's only aiding and abetting	1479.7137
1255		1480.1389	what we have out here now. This type of, uh-	1482.6832
1257		1483.4351	uh, /hoodlism/ that we're having where-	1485.0715
1259		1485.2550	where	1485.6105
1261		1486.0559	a policeman is	1486.8022
1263		1487.2304	ridiculed. There's no longer respect for him. I watched this last night,	1490.2212
1265		1491.2397	uh, coming home from work.	1492.3587
1267		1492.6859	About twelve thirty up past the bar here, and, uh,	1495.0410
1269		1495.5758	there was a little disturbance outside the bar and-	1497.6648
1271		1498.0074	and, uh,	1498.6462
1273		1499.1386	a bunch of Negros involved in this.	1500.6984
1275		1501.4290	And they had a scout car and, uh,	1503.5261
1277		1503.6984	this	1504.0257
1279		1504.5819	uh, tactical	1505.3282
1281		1505.6555	force car there.	1506.5822
1282	DTA_int_03	1506.7504	Mm-hm.	1507.0305
1283	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1507.3495	And	1507.8113
1285		1508.2732	the police officers were attempting to question some people while being heckled by	1511.9736
1287		1512.5302	a group of bystanders. Well I can remember if that had been me, I'd have grabbed 'em and I'd stick 'em.	1516.0135
1289		1516.2332	Crack somebody across the head, and shoved him in the car, and had it broken it all up. I woulda had no more problems.	1520.3710
1290	DTA_int_03	1520.9338	[/unintelligible/]	1522.4321
1291	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1521.0470	[Now, the poor-]	1521.6373
1293		1522.0314	[yeah.]	1522.3189
1294		1522.7777	Now the poor fellas had to stand there and try to-	1525.0960
1296		1525.2486	to question the persons and	1526.9117
1298		1527.4905	remembering all of their rights and that they had witnesses there who were gonna testify against them if they raised one little finger. And I felt sorry for them.	1533.6434
1299	DTA_int_03	1534.1629	Mm-hm.	1534.4260
1300	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1534.6615	So.	1535.0835
1301	DTA_int_03	1535.2732	Don't you feel though that	1536.2152
1303		1536.4262	things like	1537.0358
1305		1537.5636	interrogation procedures were always rough on a /Black kid/?	1540.3313
1306	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1540.7502	Definitely so.	1541.5730
1308		1542.7718	Definitely so.	1543.5085
1309	DTA_int_03	1544.0363	Did do you think it's still the case?	1545.2625
1310	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1545.6862	Uh, yes.	1546.4474
1311	DTA_int_03	1547.7075	Uh,	1548.0592
1312	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1548.1448	Don't /expect/ change in the white man's concept.	1549.8847
1313	DTA_int_03	1550.1569	<laugh>	1550.4383
1315		1550.5576	Yeah.	1550.8665
1317		1553.3496	Uh,	1553.6210
1319		1555.2791	have you ever read	1555.9583
1321		1556.1263	any of Chester Himes'	1557.3334
1323		1557.5598	novels?	1558.0257
1324	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1558.1048	No.	1558.3464
1325	DTA_int_03	1558.3700	Novel.	1558.8516
1326	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1559.0315	[If it's] a novel? No.	1560.0194
1327	DTA_int_03	1559.0315	[You-]	1559.2439
1328		1560.2672	You might enjoy it. He's	1561.4766
1330		1561.7165	got- they're detective	1562.8776
1332		1563.0678	things about a couple of	1564.2689
1334		1564.8694	Negro cops in Harlem.	1566.0130
1335	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1566.0439	Mm-hm. It should be quite interesting to me.	1567.6553
1336	DTA_int_03	1567.6951	Mm-hm. Similar.	1568.4163
1337	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1568.6738	Mm-hm.	1568.9644
1338	DTA_int_03	1569.4935	Himes writes for	1570.4259
1340		1570.6488	/??/ you might [like.]	1571.6148
1341	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1571.4322	[Mm-hm.]	1571.6738
1342		1572.2549	The reason I said, uh, no is that	1574.6983
1344		1575.6311	when you look over in the shelves, I don't think you find a- a hardly a	1578.5307
1346		1579.4688	novel there.	1580.2854
1347	DTA_int_03	1580.4567	Yeah.	1580.7564
1349		1581.0561	Yeah.	1581.2427
1350	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1582.2700	Uh,	1582.7287
1352		1583.2622	We have a /purely/ old collection from, uh,	1585.0742
1354		1585.5789	Reader's Digest, and I haven't read one of them.	1587.3069
1356		1587.5822	I don't read novels.	1588.7715
1357	DTA_int_03	1588.9367	Oh.	1589.2023
1358	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1590.4819	And, uh, so usually when you say, novel I say, no.	1593.1020
1360		1593.4048	I haven't read it.	1593.9641
1362		1594.3250	But once in a while there's something of interest that I would read.	1596.5831
1364		1597.1996	And that is something if I ever came in contact with, I possibly would read it.	1600.0563
1365	DTA_int_03	1600.3892	Mm-hm. My husband's a fan of detective fiction, anyway.	1603.4752
1367		1605.1815	Uh, what do they call this part of town?	1606.6920
1369		1607.0101	Is there a name for the neighborhood?	1608.3658
1370	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1609.3372	No, there's-	1610.3527
1372		1610.8328	they like to	1611.2641
1374		1611.5253	refer to this as Highland Park, because Highland Park is	1614.3344
1376		1614.6739	that building across the street and this building next door to me.	1616.8910
1377	DTA_int_03	1617.2786	Yeah.	1617.5667
1378	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1617.7749	This is Detroit here, however.	1619.0804
1380		1620.0469	So a lot of people refer to this as Highland Park, but it's actually the West Side of Detroit.	1624.9856
1381	DTA_int_03	1625.2884	Mm-hm.	1625.5859
1382	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1625.7717	Very the best way we can put it.	1626.9859
1383	DTA_int_03	1627.3190	Yeah.	1627.5309
1384	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1627.7562	And, uh,	1628.5637
1386		1629.1265	geographically, they sometimes refer to it as the Northwest Side of Detroit.	1632.4292
1387	DTA_int_03	1632.7993	Mm-hm.	1633.0624
1389		1634.0988	What are some of the streets of Detroit?	1635.7473
1390	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1638.1234	Well, uh,	1639.0868
1392		1639.3036	[<laugh>]	1640.3942
1393	DTA_int_03	1640.1722	[What are] the big ones?	1640.9181
1394	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1641.6097	Woodward Avenue,	1642.5972
1396		1642.7623	Grand River,	1643.5147
1398		1644.1570	Jefferson, Gratiot,	1645.5462
1400		1646.0223	Harper, Van Dyke,	1647.5577
1402		1648.7134	uh- and, uh. Well, you see, I'm orientated now to the East Side of Detroit so I begin to mention East Side streets.	1654.3770
1403	DTA_int_03	1654.4412	Yeah, I [gathered- <laugh>] I caught that.	1656.2669
1404	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1654.7287	[<laugh>]	1655.2932
1405		1656.3436	Yeah. (laughing)	1656.8196
1406	DTA_int_03	1657.6461	The first time I've heard Gratiot from anybody living in west [Detroit.]	1660.7409
1407	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1660.5727	[I-] yeah, well see, my area of work	1663.2111
1408		1663.4412	is e-	1664.1202
1410		1664.8756	east of Woodward Avenue.	1665.9952
1411	DTA_int_03	1666.2669	Mm-hm.	1666.6278
1412	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1666.9550	So I drive some three hundred miles	1668.5332
1414		1669.0256	in the course of a week in the East Side of Detroit, so I think of the East Side.	1671.8819
1415	DTA_int_03	1672.9611	And what's the one down by Cobo Hall?	1674.5923
1416	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1676.0437	Jefferson Avenue.	1676.8390
1417	DTA_int_03	1677.0530	Mm-hm.	1677.2287
1418	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1677.2457	And Woodward.	1677.6066
1419	DTA_int_03	1678.8877	Uh, where were you born?	1680.0839
1420	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1680.3467	Springfield, Ohio.	1681.2883
1421	DTA_int_03	1681.7134	Really?	1681.9485
1422	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1682.2578	Mm-hm.	1682.6004
1423	DTA_int_03	1682.8603	Uh, when did you come to Detroit?	1684.2071
1424	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1685.3373	Three years and eight months.	1686.3997
1425	DTA_int_03	1686.8417	Uh-huh. <laugh> Okay.	1688.4046
1427		1689.0316	Uh, where else- where have you lived in Detroit besides this part?	1692.0836
1428	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1693.4442	Well	1693.8938
1430		1695.2488	it's been a mixture of both the East Side and the West Side of Detroit.	1697.8848
1432		1698.7871	The lower East Side,	1700.0101
1434		1701.3130	and, uh,	1702.4442
1436		1703.6187	the West Side, and far West Side.	1705.3892
1437	DTA_int_03	1705.8419	Mm-hm.	1706.1630
1439		1707.1668	So you've-	1707.6770
1440	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1710.5638	That's our oldest child.	1711.4718
1441	DTA_int_03	1713.0530	/unintelligible/	1713.8686
1443		1715.4964	Do people generally move across Woodward?	1717.6430
1444	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1719.1173	Well, uh, I think that there has always been a trend, uh, for East Siders to move to West Side.	1724.7841
1445	DTA_int_03	1725.5302	Yeah.	1725.7711
1446	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1725.7901	Or to /?/ the far East Side.	1727.8737
1447	DTA_int_03	1728.0133	Mm-hm.	1728.3344
1448	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1728.8115	Uh,	1729.2019
1450		1730.1324	in	1730.7231
1452		1731.3405	the cultural group that we belonged to at the time- e- ethnic group that we belonged to at the time,	1735.6430
1454		1736.4291	those who lived on the East Side- central East Side that is, around	1739.7972
1456		1740.3191	the Woodward, John R, Brush area always moved to the West Side.	1743.3895
1457	DTA_int_03	1743.8024	Mm-hm.	1744.1042
1458	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1744.2607	And those who lived	1745.4087
1460		1745.9490	on the East Side had a little s-	1747.9996
1462		1748.2119	social culture of their own there, and it remained there.	1750.8909
1463	DTA_int_03	1751.2914	Mm-hm.	1751.5991
1464	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1751.7227	So it depends more or less	1752.9476
1466		1753.1751	where you were first /orientated/	1754.8005
1468		1755.5451	and are oriented.	1756.8785
1470		1757.3954	And from there you	1758.8115
1472		1760.0253	follow the trend.	1761.1356
1473	DTA_int_03	1761.3700	[Mm-hm.]	1761.7212
1474	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1761.5760	[Either] to the West Side of Detroit or to the far East Side.	1764.2549
1475	DTA_int_03	1765.5513	We were told as a general rule that	1767.4843
1477		1768.0164	Detroiters tended to respect Woodward as being a [dividing-]	1771.2760
1478	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1770.9125	[The dividing] line, that's right. Mm-hm.	1772.6065
1479	DTA_int_03	1774.4259	Uh,	1774.6494
1481		1775.4749	have you gone	1776.1478
1483		1777.1785	out of Detroit on trips?	1778.4822
1484	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1779.0867	Oh, yes. We've taken frequent trips.	1780.7134
1486		1781.7563	Family-	1782.2090
1488		1782.7442	usually we move together as a family group, although my wife and I sometimes	1786.5727
1490		1787.0131	have interests that take us out of the city.	1788.6219
1491	DTA_int_03	1789.0711	Yeah.	1789.2485
1492	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1789.5039	Um,	1790.0712
1494		1790.2303	very seldom do we go	1791.2793
1496		1791.6097	separately.	1792.2515
1497	DTA_int_03	1792.6797	Mm-hm.	1792.9336
1498	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1793.6095	Except	1794.0681
1500		1794.9920	some occasions she's had to go	1796.6248
1502		1797.8023	because of her organizational work.	1799.2945
1504		1799.8083	[It's taken] her farther west than I have been.	1802.0620
1505	DTA_int_03	1799.8644	[Mm-hm.]	1800.2367
1506		1802.8175	How far west have you been?	1804.0680
1507	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1804.6614	Fargo-	1805.4146
1509		1806.1968	Let's see now, I've been as far-	1807.4014
1511		1807.5146	I've been as far as, uh-	1809.1876
1513		1810.0440	as, um,	1811.0253
1515		1811.5912	Omaha,	1812.3574
1516	DTA_int_03	1812.5729	Mm-hm.	1812.8329
1517	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1812.8692	Nebraska.	1813.6247
1519		1814.4046	And, um,	1815.3914
1521		1816.3525	I guess that's nearly as far west as I've been.	1818.3374
1522	DTA_int_03	1818.7717	Mm-hm.	1819.0680
1523	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1819.7409	Most of our traveling been in the east	1821.8278
1525		1822.0409	and the central section Un- of the United States.	1824.5944
1526	DTA_int_03	1824.7412	Where do you like to go?	1825.6675
1527	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1827.3803	Well we don't go where we like, we usually go where we have to go. [At- when] we are just	1831.9213
1528	DTA_int_03	1830.2334	[Mm-hm.]	1830.5643
1529	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1832.1324	traveling or n- we're just	1833.3986
1531		1833.6525	tripping for the pleasure, it's a-	1835.2211
1533		1835.4474	ab-	1835.6493
1535		1836.3130	Northern Michigan.	1836.8635
1536	DTA_int_03	1837.2546	Mm-hm.	1837.5013
1537	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1837.5013	That's where we usually- we try to spend on our vacations when we have that kind of time.	1840.4350
1538		1841.0926	We go up the Upper Peninsula some place.	1842.9277
1539	DTA_int_03	1843.3769	Mm-hm.	1843.6468
1541		1844.3709	If you had all the money in the world, what would you do with it?	1846.4593
1542	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1847.1171	Give most of it away, I think.	1848.4322
1543	DTA_int_03	1848.7106	Mm-hm.	1849.0458
1545		1850.0039	Would you go back to school?	1851.0067
1546	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1852.0195	At this age I wouldn't have to.	1853.3006
1548		1853.5024	If I had money.	1854.1142
1549	DTA_int_03	1855.4442	That's true.	1855.7881
1551		1855.9213	[<laugh>]	1856.6502
1552	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1856.2272	[Because you can] read all you need.	1857.7133
1553		1858.1353	My education, uh,	1859.5789
1555		1860.2640	a formal education is alright if you have a purpose to use it.	1863.4506
1556	DTA_int_03	1863.8360	[Mm-hm.]	1864.1785
1557	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1863.9002	[Otherwise] you can more or less self-teach yourself anything you wanted.	1867.1642
1558	DTA_int_03	1867.6124	Yeah.	1867.7996
1559	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1867.8296	And you have the time to read, well you can read and do anything you want.	1871.1140
1560	DTA_int_03	1871.4841	Mm-hm.	1871.8135
1561	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1871.9215	So why spend time in a classroom when	1874.1691
1563		1874.4504	you can pick up the knowledge you want without it.	1875.9614
1565		1876.8020	Unless you have some directed purpose for it.	1878.4506
1567		1878.7350	[See.]	1878.9736
1568	DTA_int_03	1878.8145	[And that's why you're] a teacher?	1880.3846
1569	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1879.2569	[A degree.]	1879.8234
1571		1880.2639	Yeah, a degree for sake of degree is nice if your ego demands it.	1883.5789
1572		1884.2671	But you can [read all the same] books and get the same knowledge without	1887.0774
1573	DTA_int_03	1884.5857	[<laugh>]	1885.3712
1574	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1887.6830	going to through the sweat of a classroom.	1889.0039
1575	DTA_int_03	1889.3312	Here, here.	1889.8633
1577		1890.3068	And	1890.5756
1579		1891.0680	you can go through the sweat of a classroom and not read.	1893.3651
1580	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1893.4598	Oh, [yes.]	1894.6063
1581	DTA_int_03	1893.8417	[<laugh>] Which is a [trouble] with higher [education.]	1896.7992
1582	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1894.9855	[<laugh>]	1895.2816
1584		1895.6615	[<laugh>]	1895.8480
1586		1896.4506	[Yes,] yes. <laugh>	1898.3464
1587	DTA_int_03	1899.0193	How does your family celebrate the holidays?	1901.0278
1588	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1902.2885	Always together. We-	1903.4014
1589	DTA_int_03	1903.8650	[Mm-hm.]	1904.1800
1590	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1903.8693	[I have never] been in a family	1905.1355
1591		1905.2915	that was separated during the holiday. When we do, that person's anathema.	1908.6524
1593		1909.3800	<laugh>	1909.7653
1595		1910.0467	[When] one- when one pulls off for the holiday, we look at them as cancer, you know, wondering what's wrong with you.	1915.1446
1596	DTA_int_03	1910.0742	[Yeah.]	1910.2394
1597	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1916.3740	But we usually spend our holidays together.	1918.2760
1599		1918.7990	Generally, I-	1919.6615
1601		1920.0468	we've- well, we have developed a ba- uh, a ban on traveling	1922.7808
1603		1923.0713	on the expressways and on highways,	1925.0253
1605		1925.7043	[so we-]	1926.0683
1606	DTA_int_03	1925.8542	[/?/] /bright/. [<laugh>]	1926.9020
1607	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1926.4812	[yeah.]	1926.6616
1608		1926.9552	So we usually spend our holidays at home.	1928.7318
1609	DTA_int_03	1928.9643	Mm-hm.	1929.1661
1610	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1929.4047	And we plan	1930.1085
1612		1930.3463	other days, other than, uh,	1931.7135
1614		1931.9061	uh, holidays	1932.8268
1616		1933.2912	for traveling.	1933.8558
1618		1934.3526	Last weekend we-	1935.4192
1620		1936.1200	uh, last two weekends we went up to Metropolitan Park.	1938.4720
1621	DTA_int_03	1938.7625	Mm-hm.	1939.0806
1622	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1939.4778	And had a little- just a little, oh,	1941.2548
1624		1941.5760	we don't even picnic. We usually	1943.2241
1626		1943.6156	buy, um,	1944.5882
1628		1945.3096	uh, a lunch	1946.3740
1629	DTA_int_03	1946.5728	Mm-hm.	1946.8978
1630	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1946.9734	and about the only thing we do is throw it in the hamper and get a	1949.6186
1632		1949.8414	/make a lot/-	1950.4821
1634		1950.8115	a thermos jug full of, uh, Kool-Aid.	1952.7196
1635	DTA_int_03	1952.8817	Mm-hm.	1953.1211
1636	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1953.6035	And, uh,	1954.3857
1638		1955.3158	then we all go together. That keeps from putting too much burden on the	1957.8020
1640		1958.2027	wife.	1958.7226
1642		1959.5056	And we just go out there and let everyone break out for themselves. Usually the wife and I, and the mother-in-law stay together as an adult group. My oldest- our oldest daughter	1966.2974
1644		1966.9060	and the kids-	1967.6331
1646		1968.2714	well he likes with his sail boats,	1969.8540
1647	DTA_int_03	1970.1323	Mm-hm.	1970.3587
1648	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1970.5055	and the fish.	1971.3771
1649	DTA_int_03	1971.5943	Mm-hm.	1971.8759
1650	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1972.1628	So leave them to their own devices and we just relax.	1974.5821
1651	DTA_int_03	1975.4289	Uh,	1975.7510
1653		1976.2363	how- how did you normally celebrate Christmas? Did you have any s-	1979.0406
1655		1979.5605	any special	1980.2762
1656	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1980.3527	Oh, [yes.]	1980.9827
1657	DTA_int_03	1980.7988	[thing] you do to [celebrated?]	1981.8150
1658	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	1981.4962	[Mm-hm.] Mm,	1982.4535
1659		1983.2579	we have a tradition in our family that's very, very, very	1986.2364
1661		1986.7075	definite.	1987.1077
1663		1987.7225	Midnight Mass.	1988.5942
1665		1989.8665	Always.	1990.4099
1667		1990.8387	This is a	1991.2271
1669		1991.5605	thing we live for from year to year.	1993.0592
1671		1993.8815	And, uh,	1994.7716
1673		1995.0896	the Christmas atmosphere and the Christmas music.	1996.9549
1675		1997.2333	I- In our family, we never decorate the tree	1999.7653
1676	DTA_int_03	1999.7892	Mm-hm.	2000.2202
1677	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2000.1874	until Christmas Eve.	2001.1447
1678	DTA_int_03	2001.6616	After the service?	2002.6869
1679	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2002.7928	No, before. We decorate it before, but we don't light it until after.	2005.7775
1680	DTA_int_03	2005.9488	Mm-hm.	2006.1874
1681	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2006.5146	We decorate the tree and get it all ready, then we go to Mass.	2009.0895
1683		2009.8572	We come back,	2010.6859
1685		2011.2209	and put the gifts under the tree	2012.4341
1687		2013.0285	after Mass.	2013.8298
1688	DTA_int_03	2013.8447	Mm-hm.	2014.1161
1689	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2014.4013	And, uh, this is	2015.4932
1691		2015.7165	/re/- definitely apart of our pattern, our habits here.	2018.4680
1693		2019.2456	And, um,	2020.1204
1695		2021.6307	usually the wife and I have something to drink.	2023.8944
1697		2024.3739	Uh,	2025.1569
1699		2025.3374	usually we'll have an eggnog or something like that, or	2027.5331
1701		2028.4505	brandy or rum.	2029.4227
1702	DTA_int_03	2029.7928	Mm-hm.	2030.1280
1703	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2030.1721	And, uh,	2030.9612
1705		2031.9797	we have a Christmas breakfast. We have pancakes for breakfast.	2035.1628
1707		2035.7255	This comes in after the Mass and after the tree has been decorated, we have this pancake breakfast.	2040.9154
1708	DTA_int_03	2041.1475	Mm-hm.	2041.3826
1709	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2041.8234	And, uh, [eggnog.]	2043.0427
1710	DTA_int_03	2042.5330	[This is in the] middle of the night?	2043.7747
1711	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2043.8634	Middle the night.	2044.4091
1712	DTA_int_03	2045.1231	Uh, do you eat before the Mass?	2046.2701
1713	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2047.0011	Well, we can now. Before we didn't.	2048.9385
1714	DTA_int_03	2049.2425	Mm-hm.	2049.4628
1716		2051.1292	Um,	2051.5054
1718		2053.5114	but did you-	2054.1231
1720		2054.3128	when did you open the presents?	2055.4883
1722		2055.7603	In the morning?	2056.2462
1723	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2056.5787	In the morning. <laugh> Well that depends on the age of the kids. <laugh>	2059.5084
1725		2060.1354	Uh,	2060.8725
1727		2061.3863	usually now they're open about seven or eight o'clock in the morning.	2063.9336
1728	DTA_int_03	2064.4179	It used to be crack of dawn?	2065.7405
1729	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2065.7225	Yeah.	2066.0895
1730		2066.4932	[Yeah.]	2066.7922
1731	DTA_int_03	2066.6186	[<laugh>]	2067.6034
1732		2068.6582	Uh, do you say anything special	2069.9397
1734		2071.5359	to each other?	2072.0144
1735	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2072.3494	Uh,	2072.7960
1737		2072.9550	no more than Merry [Christmas.]	2074.6705
1738	DTA_int_03	2074.6521	[Mm-hm.]	2074.9293
1739		2076.2823	Um,	2076.6891
1741		2076.9793	do you cook anything special? Do you get your wife to?	2079.1385
1742	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2079.3893	No. We used to have a-	2081.2363
1744		2081.6400	uh, we used to have ham [traditionally] for	2084.3953
1745	DTA_int_03	2083.6294	[Mm-hm.]	2083.9849
1746	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2084.6094	Christmas, but	2085.1752
1748		2085.8114	as we've gotten older we try to get away from the heavier cooking obligations.	2089.5389
1749	DTA_int_03	2089.5940	Yeah.	2089.8741
1751		2090.8449	What	2091.0437
1753		2091.3435	did you do,	2092.0575
1755		2092.5145	uh,	2092.8424
1757		2093.2546	on October thirty first?	2094.5477
1758	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2094.8756	Who knows.	2095.4992
1759	DTA_int_03	2096.0956	<laugh>	2096.4947
1760	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2096.9153	Well I can tell you one thing, I	2098.0255
1762		2098.2147	very possibly, uh, gave my mother-in-law a, uh,	2101.5512
1764		2102.3586	birthday present, [cause-]	2103.4490
1765	DTA_int_03	2103.3006	[That's her] birthday.	2104.1044
1766	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2104.1994	[uh.]	2104.7233
1767	DTA_int_03	2104.3637	[Did you go] out?	2105.0096
1768	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2105.5421	[Mm-]	2106.0865
1769	DTA_int_03	2105.6889	[Around the neighborhood in costume?]	2106.9849
1770	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2106.4383	[no.]	2106.9490
1771		2107.3126	No.	2107.7255
1773		2108.4075	You mean [Halloween?]	2109.4260
1774	DTA_int_03	2109.2698	[Yeah.]	2109.4599
1775	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2110.0255	The kids do, we don't. We stay here and	2111.7844
1777		2111.9367	pass it out the door.	2112.8940
1778	DTA_int_03	2112.9150	[<laugh>]	2113.7132
1779	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2113.3646	[We always] have something for the kids.	2114.7929
1780	DTA_int_03	2115.0345	Did you when you were a kid?	2115.9215
1781	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2117.9642	Oh, I think possibly once or twice I put on a face and went	2121.4230
1783		2122.7347	begging trick- uh, trick or treat thing. It was just beginning.	2125.9396
1785		2126.1231	The trick or treat was just beginning as a-	2128.1026
1787		2128.3952	possibly when I was about fifteen or sixteen years old.	2130.1263
1788	DTA_int_03	2130.3037	Oh, really?	2130.5881
1789	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2130.8695	Now before then, we'd try to be as devilish as possible.	2133.5545
1790	DTA_int_03	2133.9919	Yeah.	2134.2851
1792		2134.4418	Was there any special thing- well,	2135.9244
1794		2136.1537	being in police work you might be more sensitive to this.	2138.8816
1796		2139.3190	Um,	2139.6493
1798		2140.2851	about the night before Halloween.	2141.8669
1800		2142.8554	Do you have a special name for that?	2144.0551
1801	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2144.3097	Well and that's All Soul- All Hallow Night.	2146.7041
1803		2147.1598	And, uh,	2148.4230
1805		2148.6676	religiously speaking it did have a significance	2151.0804
1807		2151.2945	to me because [of my religion.]	2153.0803
1808	DTA_int_03	2152.4441	[You mean,]	2152.6613
1810		2152.8760	[the thirty] first, [proper?]	2154.0651
1811	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2153.6369	[y- i-]	2154.0468
1812	DTA_int_03	2154.3098	[Would be the religious] /affiliation/.	2155.7885
1813	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2154.4535	[uh- well,]	2155.0558
1814		2155.8876	Yeah, well the three days did.	2157.3587
1816		2157.6279	The thirty first- the thirtieth, the thirty first, and the first of November.	2160.4872
1818		2161.1264	All had a strong religious significance to me and our family here.	2164.4166
1819	DTA_int_03	2164.5236	Do you go to church on All Hallow?	2166.0245
1820	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2166.7533	No, you don't have to. It is not a day of obligation, although there is a liturgy for that day.	2172.5452
1822		2173.2575	And, uh,	2174.0558
1824		2174.8082	usually we were attending Mass in preparation for an All Soul's Day, we would-	2179.4104
1826		2179.8998	Halloween is always	2181.1140
1828		2181.2884	been a, um,	2182.1596
1830		2183.0405	as well as a	2183.7011
1832		2184.0896	culture tr- uh, thing for the kids,	2186.1475
1834		2186.8571	it's had its religious significance too. We've tried to instill them that	2190.5319
1836		2190.7319	Halloween isn't exactly what	2192.1017
1838		2192.7715	we have it here in our	2193.8573
1840		2194.3890	belief- uh, practices here. It actually has a	2196.5147
1842		2196.8481	deeper meaning, and we try to	2198.1414
1844		2198.9366	have our children understand that.	2200.2892
1845	DTA_int_03	2200.7836	Do they do anything on the thirtieth?	2202.4104
1846	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2204.1170	No.	2204.3830
1848		2205.6921	Now, which is Halloween? The thirty or the thirty first?	2207.5696
1849	DTA_int_03	2207.5818	Thirty [first is. /inaudible/].	2209.5869
1850	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2207.8632	[Well thirty first is Halloween. I w- I was trying to find out] what you were getting at.	2210.7959
1851	DTA_int_03	2210.8326	Yeah.	2211.0559
1852	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2211.4168	[Uh,]	2211.8201
1853	DTA_int_03	2211.6737	[The] thirtieth [we used to] go out and do all kinds [/inaudible/.]	2214.2277
1854	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2212.1474	[the thirtieth-]	2212.5939
1856		2214.0223	[Yeah. /Maybe, uh/,]	2215.0098
1857	DTA_int_03	2214.9001	[<laugh>]	2215.3615
1858	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2215.1963	[here] they had the night before as a soaping night.	2218.3095
1859	DTA_int_03	2218.6306	Mm-hm.	2218.8744
1860	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2218.8879	Then it was a garbage can night.	2220.2272
1861	DTA_int_03	2220.4015	Mm-hm.	2220.7077
1862	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2221.5817	And, uh, then the trick and treat	2223.6217
1864		2223.8205	night.	2224.1111
1865	DTA_int_03	2225.7898	[Got it.]	2226.0119
1866	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2225.9060	[So] we actually- we had about three days here that they would run, because	2229.4810
1867		2230.1474	we would- we know to move our car off of the street	2232.4260
1869		2232.5820	about two days before Halloween.	2234.0925
1871		2234.8938	And the night before Halloween, we'd get our garbage cans in.	2237.4197
1873		2237.7776	Course, we aren't bothered with that because the dog takes care of that for us.	2240.5574
1874	DTA_int_03	2240.7195	<laugh> Yes.	2242.4349
1876		2243.1108	Um,	2243.5128
1878		2245.9512	Let's see. Um.	2247.0987
1880		2247.9363	Did you	2248.2728
1882		2248.8019	get into fights?	2249.5512
1884		2249.8755	When you were a kid?	2250.3923
1886		2251.1841	Tell me about one.	2251.7132
1888		2252.9122	What kinds of things did fights start about?	2254.9671
1889	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2255.8663	Well	2256.2523
1890	DTA_int_03	2256.3220	The other guys.	2256.9287
1891	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2256.9918	eh,	2257.3125
1893		2257.9915	I don't know what the other guys fought about.	2259.6523
1895		2259.9184	I only had one as a youngster.	2261.8754
1897		2262.3312	One, [uh-]	2262.7777
1898	DTA_int_03	2262.5942	[Tell me] about it.	2263.0560
1899	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2263.3156	well	2263.9426
1901		2264.4607	I was being a loner.	2265.6737
1902	DTA_int_03	2265.9516	Mm-hm.	2266.2390
1903	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2266.9487	And, uh, always	2268.0131
1905		2270.0252	be more or less a book worm, and I'd actually be called, sissy.	2273.2087
1907		2274.5850	And, uh, that would-	2275.7765
1909		2276.2117	eventually got a fight out of me.	2277.5514
1910	DTA_int_03	2278.0434	Mm-hm.	2278.3714
1911	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2279.8571	And, uh,	2280.6829
1913		2281.7346	but I've always been the type of a person that, uh,	2283.8389
1915		2283.9796	would try to avoid a fight. But being embarrassed /so the cause maybe aware of the-/	2287.9028
1917		2289.4107	And, uh,	2290.0071
1919		2290.3798	cornered	2290.8312
1921		2291.9794	I'd fight.	2292.4657
1923		2292.9826	You'd have to corner me.	2293.8569
1924	DTA_int_03	2294.4564	What are the rules for a fair fight?	2295.9184
1925	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2297.0466	Well in my day	2297.6858
1927		2297.9794	strictly your fist. Now, <laugh> anything you can do is [a- is fair.]	2301.2455
1928	DTA_int_03	2300.4931	[<laugh>]	2301.1354
1929		2301.7502	Yeah, but it was	2302.6644
1930	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2302.6979	[And- yeah].	2303.3555
1931	DTA_int_03	2302.8478	[you couldn't] kick, bite, pull, [or anything /inaudible/.]	2305.1565
1932	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2304.1813	[No, I- no. We d-] no, we didn't do anything like that.	2306.3188
1933	DTA_int_03	2306.7500	If someone were	2307.4963
1935		2307.6217	getting	2308.0097
1937		2308.1749	beaten up,	2308.6123
1939		2309.1689	was there anything you could say to call off the fight?	2310.9704
1940	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2311.6031	Oh,	2312.0099
1942		2312.5512	in those days, it might even- well, if two guys are fighting long as they were fighting fair, we still say let them fight. We didn't really-	2318.3647
1944		2318.5244	did not really permit anyone else to interfere.	2320.3156
1946		2321.0404	But if it is an unfair fight, we'd break it up.	2322.9227
1947	DTA_int_03	2323.4318	Yeah. But, say in a fair fight. If one person wanted to-	2326.3033
1949		2326.4716	to quit.	2326.8845
1950	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2327.0527	I give up.	2327.6399
1951	DTA_int_03	2327.8540	I give up.	2328.1446
1952	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2328.3403	Mm.	2328.6309
1953	DTA_int_03	2329.6734	Uh,	2330.0466
1955		2330.8938	have you ever been in the hospital?	2332.1534
1956	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2333.0404	Yes, uh-huh.	2333.9029
1957	DTA_int_03	2336.2637	Did you	2336.7252
1959		2337.3525	ever- were you ever in an automobile accident?	2339.3857
1960	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2340.2210	No. Excuse me for interrupting, but here's one of my brand new employees I jus- think I just hired this man.	2345.3696
1961	DTA_int_03	2345.7317	[Uh-huh.]	2346.0030
1962	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2345.8877	[Yesterday.] Yes, I- no- yeah.	2348.0661
1963		2348.8779	[In full uniform.]	2349.7471
1964	DTA_int_03	2348.8999	[/inaudible/]	2349.4891
1965	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2349.8756	No, no. Uh-uh.	2350.5908
1967		2351.3830	Yeah, he just-	2351.8632
1969		2352.0803	just proud of his uniform. [<laugh>]	2354.8265
1970	DTA_int_03	2353.6214	[<laugh>]	2354.2513
1971		2354.8724	[Uh-huh.]	2355.4630
1972	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2355.2180	[<laugh>]	2355.7775
1973		2355.8832	You see, [he's actually- he- see that walk out, he's quite proud of his uniform.] Oh, brother.	2359.5725
1974	DTA_int_03	2356.1565	[Yeah. Yeah, I can see that walk. <laugh>]	2358.8573
1975	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2359.7407	[Brother.]	2360.0007
1976	DTA_int_03	2360.0007	I am [/too/. <laugh>]	2361.3621
1977	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2360.7255	[<laugh>]	2363.1475
1978	DTA_int_03	2362.4752	[Looks pretty good.]	2363.2705
1979	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2363.8815	<laugh>	2364.2975
1980	DTA_int_03	2364.9398	Uh,	2365.2881
1982		2365.6306	how much training do these guys	2366.8387
1984		2367.1537	get?	2367.3128
1985	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2367.8817	Well	2368.2605
1987		2368.4629	in /RD-WORK-3/ they're t- continuously on a training.	2370.7440
1988	DTA_int_03	2370.7987	Yeah.	2371.0236
1989	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2371.5266	That's a j- that's one of my jobs is to train [these men.] Yeah.	2374.3125
1990	DTA_int_03	2373.7108	[Uh-huh.]	2374.0519
1991	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2375.5053	We have a r- uh, continuous training program we have a regular procedure I have to follow and I have to evaluate them.	2380.7988
1992	DTA_int_03	2380.9670	Mm-hm.	2381.3226
1994		2382.8755	Were you ever in any situation where you thought you might die or be killed?	2386.0204
1995	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2387.2759	Mm,	2389.0433
1997		2389.7713	well in police work I had situations where	2392.4287
1999		2393.1964	I knew that the	2394.1843
2001		2394.4657	odds were there.	2395.5572
2002	DTA_int_03	2395.6979	<laugh> Yeah.	2396.6557
2004		2397.1109	Yeah, [but did you-] did you ever think, you know, this is it I'm not gonna get out of this /alive/?	2401.2878
2005	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2397.3953	[Well, but.]	2397.9485
2006		2401.5449	No.	2401.8110
2008		2403.1874	Never thought of that.	2403.8996
2010		2404.3278	I never faced death that way. I've taken a lot of risks, but never	2406.9913
2012		2407.0953	thought of at the time that there was-	2408.6705
2014		2408.8479	i- it was a risk.	2409.8710
2015	DTA_int_03	2410.0189	Mm-hm.	2410.3236
2016	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2411.3371	Only afterwards.	2412.2135
2017	DTA_int_03	2412.5605	Some people feel,	2413.3584
2019		2413.6336	well whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.	2415.6890
2020	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2416.5969	Well I feel that if you have a situation to meet, you must meet that situation regardless of the cost of it.	2420.8601
2021	DTA_int_03	2421.2057	Mm-hm.	2421.7109
2022	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2421.9092	In other words, if	2422.5939
2024		2422.7477	something is a hazardous or a risk, in other words, if that building over there was on fire and somebody was in there, I'd probably die trying to get them out.	2427.6813
2026		2428.5010	And I wouldn't consider that, uh, I might die in doing it.	2430.9932
2028		2431.2716	It'd be- the object would be to get them out if possible.	2433.0333
2029	DTA_int_03	2433.2164	Yeah.	2433.4239
2031		2434.9772	But, um,	2435.4517
2033		2436.8128	not a fatalist.	2437.7840
2035		2438.5959	Mm-mm.	2438.9616
2036	DTA_se3_ag4_m_01	2439.4173	Can't be.	2439.8904
2037	DTA_int_03	2440.2492	Mm-hm.	2440.5525