LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1LES_int_010.6003Okay, great. So, we're recording and it's January sixth, two thousand nine.5.1140
3 5.4497And I'm /RD-NAME-4/, and I'm talking to /RD-NAME-7/.8.6804 
4LES_se0_ag3_f_018.6804[Yes. ]9.2627
7LES_int_0110.0029Hi /RD-NAME-3/.10.6382
9LES_int_0111.2021Um. So, I- I think I told you I normally just ask people to start- if we could start at the beginning, um, and just get an idea of17.7555
11 17.9688your kind of, life story.19.4143 
13 19.7780Um, would you mind kind of telling me when and where you were born?22.6352 
14LES_se0_ag3_f_0123.1554I was born in Queens, New [York.]24.9867
16LES_se0_ag3_f_0125.0940in September of sixty-nine.27.2249
18LES_se0_ag3_f_0127.9244And, um,29.0528
20 29.2067born to a30.4477 
22 30.6202teenage mom and a31.9362 
24 32.1507teenage dad.32.9228 
26LES_se0_ag3_f_0133.6684And, um.34.7502
27LES_int_0134.7502[What are their stories,] how- how did they end up living in Queens?37.1271
28LES_se0_ag3_f_0134.8500[M- m-]35.0959
30 37.1271Uh,37.7659 
31 37.9618my mom, by the way of her family, South Carolina, and my dad by the way of his family, Florida.42.8392
33LES_se0_ag3_f_0143.2856[They] moved to, uh, New York [and,] um, they both settled in Queens.47.7620
35 47.8180As- did they move as a-48.9075
37 49.1127kids, or as [adults?]50.3245 
38LES_se0_ag3_f_0150.2178[Um,] they were both teenagers when they moved to Queens, the borough of [Queens.] And um,54.8935
40LES_se0_ag3_f_0155.2339my mom lived with her aunt, and her mom lived in the South, so she kind of came to the city59.9851
42 60.3768at the age of about a- twelve, I [believe] it was. [And] she went to the school systems there in Queens.66.1296 
45 63.0970[Okay.]63.4350 
46LES_se0_ag3_f_0166.5694And my dad also. He came to the city, I think he was a little younger than my mom when his family left, uh,71.8299
48 72.1086Florida and moved to New [York.]73.7966 
50LES_se0_ag3_f_0174.5322And um,75.2738
52 75.4510so I guess my parents kind of met up as teenagers or [whatever and-]78.7894 
53LES_int_0178.1273[They met at school.]79.0412
54LES_se0_ag3_f_0179.6511Not even at school. [I don't think] they went to the same school, cause my dad was four years older than my mom.83.6006
55LES_int_0180.4857[Just at-]81.0593
57 83.5786[Oh, okay.]84.1632 
58LES_se0_ag3_f_0184.1632So, [um.]85.1522
59LES_int_0184.7465[So they just] met?85.5248
60LES_se0_ag3_f_0186.0051<ts> They met, I- I really can't remember exactly the whole story behind them meeting or [whatever, but]91.0305
62LES_se0_ag3_f_0191.3756I do know that they got married when my mom was sixteen.94.2655
64LES_se0_ag3_f_0194.5887[And] my aunt signed for her to get married, um, and97.8871
65 98.3394my dad went off to war.99.6684
67 99.8642And he went [to Vietnam, and] um, my mom was pregnant with me.103.7154 
69 103.8167[Oh.]104.4089
71 105.2303she had me in Queens, um, I think my dad came home for leave when she had me.109.9286
73 110.2737And then he went back. And I w- I went to live with my grandma in the South, while my mom was115.0603 
75 115.4312here trying to work and make some money or whatever.117.6167 
77LES_se0_ag3_f_01117.9478[And] then, um, I believe my dad came back from Vietnam when I was about two.122.2375
79LES_se0_ag3_f_01122.9478And, we lived here, we moved to Lower East Side125.6461
80LES_int_01125.6927When you were two?126.3642
81LES_se0_ag3_f_01126.3642when I was about two years old.127.5209
82LES_int_01127.5209So, you've been- and-128.6494
84 129.0410and have you left and lived in [other places?]131.8624 
85LES_se0_ag3_f_01131.0778[Well, yeah. We] left Quee- we left Manhattan, the Lower East Side, when I- I guess I was about136.0785
86 136.5727maybe137.1976
88 137.6038four, I think we moved, um, to Queens, back to [Queens.]141.1662 
90LES_se0_ag3_f_01141.6761And um,142.7444
92 143.2339then to South Carolina for about145.0825 
94 145.2515a year or two.146.0036 
96LES_se0_ag3_f_01146.5974And then back to- <laugh>148.5418
98 148.8029back to New York [from South] Carolina.150.7893 
101 150.7124[Okay.]151.0807 
102LES_se0_ag3_f_01151.1530And back to Queens. [And] um, because that's the base of where my- my mom's and my dad's family [was living at the time.]157.9862
105 156.9323[Your family.]157.7119 
107 157.9679Yeah.158.3265 
108LES_se0_ag3_f_01158.4851And, um,159.5552
110 159.6391<ts> I don't think we ended up back on the Lower East Side until my mom and dad separated and that was in the year of uh,165.6250 
112 165.9741I wanna say, nineteen seventy-nine. We moved back to New [York.]170.2727 
113LES_int_01169.9069[Okay.] So, you were about ten.171.2838
114LES_se0_ag3_f_01171.3664Yeah, I was about ten years old.172.7341
116 172.8507And we lived, um, we actually lived in a women's shelter, um, located on Avenue177.3593 
118 177.8174B, at the time, and Ninth Street, there was a women's shelter there. Now- now it's this181.5976 
120 181.7040big fancy,182.7703 
122 183.8447I wanna say,184.5115 
124 184.6945co-op, it's not even a co-op it's probably privatized h- [apartments now.]189.1301 
125LES_int_01188.4773[I know] where you're [talking about.]190.2725
126LES_se0_ag3_f_01189.6010[Yeah. It's] gated in, it was really, [really nice.] And I believe it was run by the Catholic Church at that particular [time.]196.3797
129 196.2352[Mm-hm.]196.6129 
130LES_se0_ag3_f_01196.7201Or some private organizations.198.2112
132 198.2939But, um,199.0551 
134 199.6612<ts> anyway, I remember being there for201.5348 
136 201.8189about two or three months and203.4602 
138 203.8099it was over the summer that we had to stay there and, um, til we got an apartment on Thirteenth Street.209.0676 
140LES_se0_ag3_f_01209.7251Between, um, First and Avenue A.211.8735
141 212.2232And we lived on [Thirteenth Street.]213.6780
142LES_int_01213.0115[Is that]213.4311
143 213.8879Compost Plaza?214.8065
146 215.7974First and A.216.6554 
148 217.0823[First and A, is private]219.0034 
149LES_int_01217.3257[That's Compost Plaza's A and] B or [something.]219.7401
150LES_se0_ag3_f_01219.6982[Compost] Plaza is C and D.221.1285
151LES_int_01221.0824[Oh,] it is, [okay.]221.7953
152LES_se0_ag3_f_01221.7445[Yeah.] And um, we lived on Thirteenth Street224.6117
153 224.8542from like nineteen-ei- nineteen227.6135
155 228.3129eighty to maybe eighty-five. We moved here in nineteen eighty-five to [/RD-ADDRESS-4/] in [eighty-five.]233.8964 
158 233.3629[Okay.]233.7359 
159LES_se0_ag3_f_01234.2601Yeah, my mom was actually trying to be a um,237.2167
161 237.8788<ts>238.0467 
163 238.3264a homesteader.239.0995 
165 239.8852And at t- and at that time, um241.6805 
167 242.4580the243.0129 
169 243.1714President Carter, he had a program,245.4609 
171 245.7873Project Appleseed, I believe it was, and they were helping248.4761 
173 248.7328low income families, um, that wanted to take over these abandoned buildings down on the Lower East [Side.]254.0768 
175LES_se0_ag3_f_01254.3470And they were converting them into apartments, which the family did sweat equity258.2860
176 258.5471and actually would own their own apartment.260.4729
178 260.8833Well,261.2470 
180 261.4102my mom262.0864 
182 262.3980f- she fell through the flooring of- of the apartment that she was working [on.]266.9210 
183LES_int_01266.6066[Oh, no.]267.3434
184LES_se0_ag3_f_01267.3201[And] she just268.3125
185 268.4244kind of gave up because she s- she got injured. So [she gave up.]271.6677
186LES_int_01270.9742[Oh, no.]271.9207
187LES_se0_ag3_f_01271.9848Cause it was- it was a lot for her, you know, she was doing it by herself, single mom, three kids.276.2037
189LES_se0_ag3_f_01276.7025[Really,] really hard at the time for her to, you know, to do that by herself. [And,]281.1089
191LES_se0_ag3_f_01281.4943you know, and for her to get hurt. She hurt her back really bad, and, um,284.8609
193 285.1920I remember from then on it- it just got really-288.0488 
195 288.2633it got really bad. And so289.9979 
197 290.4408um, you know, living on Thirteenth Street was rough for her. She applied for these apartments here, I think she originally applied for,296.5057 
199 296.9207uh,297.2471 
201 297.3667t- two ten Stanton Street. Which was299.4417 
203 299.7261Pueblo Nuevo, [at the time.]301.3535 
204LES_int_01300.6867[Yes], yeah.301.7237
207 302.4399she didn't get in303.2357 
209 303.4548to Pueblo [Nuevo, but]304.9283 
211LES_se0_ag3_f_01305.2221[she] did306.0145
212 306.5269get in here. So we were like, [the foundation] family for this [building.]310.0478
215 309.8749[Oh,] okay. And Pueblo Nuevo, that's section eight.312.6811 
216LES_se0_ag3_f_01312.7075That's also [section eight, which is the sister] building to that315.6684
217LES_int_01313.6354[Is this section eight?]314.6219
220 316.2560[Right.]316.5217 
221LES_int_01316.2560[Oh,] okay. [Okay,] so this is not NYCHA this is section [eight?]319.2301
224 319.0436[<ts> This] is section [eight housing. Right.]320.8613 
225LES_int_01319.8541[Sorry, I'm- I'm] learning more about the322.0270
226 322.2330distinctions.323.0210
230 324.5069wow and so then you've been here [in the- in the same apartment?]327.3310 
231LES_se0_ag3_f_01326.0067[So we've been here,]327.1997
232 327.6481same [apartment.]328.6646
234LES_se0_ag3_f_01328.9117[Since] eighty-five my family has been in this apartment. Well, you know, my brothers left and333.3547
235 333.6422I left, I got married. I came back when [my mom] deceased in [ninety-two.]337.9367
238 337.8773[Oh.]338.5985 
239 338.7201[Yeah, I'm sorry.]339.7583
240LES_se0_ag3_f_01339.0635[Um, no actually] ninety-four. My mom passed in ninety-four. So I came back here in the343.7078
241 344.1974summer of ninety-four.345.6980
243LES_se0_ag3_f_01346.1858So, um, and I been here since.348.3263
246 349.8930With my two sons, my two boys.351.6360
247LES_int_01351.8125How old are they?352.4607
248LES_se0_ag3_f_01352.5120Um, I have a sixteen year old and a twelve year old.355.0189
249LES_int_01355.0189Okay. The one I [met.]355.9998
251 356.9138[Yeah.]357.1966
252LES_int_01356.9448[That's] great.357.5370
253 358.1572Um,358.7214
255 358.9881okay, so I'm interested in kind of your memories as a kid of the neighborhood. It sounds like you364.0541 
257 364.3805were here and you left and you came back, and so you probably have a really interesting perspective.368.2911 
258LES_se0_ag3_f_01368.4217<ts> [Well,]369.1164
259LES_int_01368.6175[What do you remember?] What are some of your first memories about being here, living here?372.2592
260LES_se0_ag3_f_01372.8841I know that, um,374.6170
262 375.4051I remember being a kid- well I can remember Thirteenth Street very well. Thirteenth Street was that kind of block where everybody kind of381.3012 
264 381.5639knew everyone. We were like,382.7328 
266 382.9659wasn't very many black families that lived on Thirteenth Street. In fact, I don't there were387.2037 
268 387.9404any black families that lived on Thirteenth [Street. We were] like, one of the few391.5378 
270LES_se0_ag3_f_01392.0087that lived392.5675
272 392.7501in that ratio. In that one block ratio [that we] lived on. [So it was kind of different.]397.0998 
275 395.8502[What- what was the rest] of the make up,397.8878 
276LES_se0_ag3_f_01398.1303[It was all] Puerto Rican.399.5890
277LES_int_01398.1761[at the time?]398.8147
278 399.8641[It was?]400.4470
279LES_se0_ag3_f_01399.9154[It was] all Puerto Rican. (laughing)401.5699
281LES_se0_ag3_f_01401.9709And I don't even remember a Dominican family at all. At that time it was just predominantly406.6330
282 407.0604Puerto Rican and Caucasian.408.8370
284LES_se0_ag3_f_01409.6763And that was it. And it was, you know, very mixed, very411.9323
286 412.2308blended. Um, people very free-will. People very kind416.0629 
288 416.4033to one another. [Um.]417.7679 
289LES_int_01417.2130[They weren't,] and now even if there- you were one of the only black [families /you didn't feel any/.]421.2837
290LES_se0_ag3_f_01420.1786[They couldn't care less.]421.5635
291LES_int_01421.4656[Didn't care?]422.0655
292LES_se0_ag3_f_01421.8883[We] all just kind of blended and fitted in.423.7301
293LES_int_01423.9247[That's great.]424.3503
294LES_se0_ag3_f_01424.0426[And,] um,424.9472
295 425.3202we- I remember426.1828
297 426.4078like, playing on the fire escape as a kid. [And going] up and down the fire escape, not even being fearful that we were on a fire escape and we lived on the fourth floor.434.1400 
299 434.2931[Yeah.]434.7546
300LES_se0_ag3_f_01434.5122[We would] just go to each other apartments, knocking on each other's windows. Hey, you know, what's going on.438.9225
302LES_se0_ag3_f_01439.3235[And,] um, I remember my neighbors- learning how to speak Spanish with my neighbors.443.2994
303 443.6361And picking up the accent444.8615
305 445.0060of the community.445.9603 
307 446.2587And really, you know,447.4245 
309 447.9607not really identifying with being a Southerner or451.3071 
311 451.5542someone from Queens, but really knowing that, you know, I was a Lower East Sider at that point.455.5689 
313 455.8953[They couldn't] cared less where you came from. Once you're on the Lower East Side, you're from the Lower East Side, [pretty much.]460.5745 
316 459.8397[Right.]460.3973 
317 460.8317[Right.]461.3352
318LES_se0_ag3_f_01460.9895[And,] um, especially if you462.7754
319 462.9992make roots there and you go to school there, or whatever.465.4689
321 465.8886So that's- that's what I remember. And just playing stick ball on the street, [Johnny on a pony.]471.1794 
322LES_int_01470.0650[Yeah, so where did you] play it? [Yeah,] you played [on- on the block?]473.3570
325 472.4057[Played on a block.] When the cars came, everybody [moved. And when the cars left,] everybody went back.477.8924 
327LES_se0_ag3_f_01478.2871I remember summertime, [um.]480.3621
328LES_int_01480.3155[Wait,] is Johnny on the Pony the one where everybody jumps482.9687
329LES_se0_ag3_f_01483.0293[On person's back. <laugh>] Yeah, and the last [person-]486.9352
330LES_int_01483.2383[On s- a person's back.] (laughing)485.1781
332 486.3637[I've heard of] this. I'm like, this sounds not fun [for people on the bottom. (laughing)]491.4201 
333LES_se0_ag3_f_01489.0747[It's a very rough game.]490.6181
335 491.0237[<laugh>] It's a very [rough game.]492.6923 
337LES_se0_ag3_f_01493.1492[Very] rough game. [And Booties Up.] Booties Up was that game where you got hit with the ball on your [backside.]499.1255
338LES_int_01494.5714[That's /inaudible./]495.4511
340 498.6778[What?] I've never [heard that one.]500.0703 
341LES_se0_ag3_f_01499.6694[Yeah.] It was crazy. [<laugh>]501.7677
342LES_int_01501.3994[Now were] boys and girls,502.5091
343 502.6397were you playing [together as a kid?]504.0805
344LES_se0_ag3_f_01503.3811[Yeah, we played] together. The boys and girls played [together. Um,] didn't matter what your family's economic situation was, cause509.4040
345LES_int_01506.0856[That's cool.]506.6444
346LES_se0_ag3_f_01509.6464if you lived in the tenements, everybody was pretty much the same, [you know. Everybody] was working families [or]514.2238
349 513.9813[Yeah.]514.3637 
350LES_se0_ag3_f_01514.4896you know, uh, lower income families, or [whatever.]516.8389
352 517.1922[Yeah.]517.6333
353LES_se0_ag3_f_01517.2539[Lot of single mothers.] I remember, um, in the neighborhood like, the super's kids521.0945
354 521.4116that lived in the building next door from us. They were like, the largest family, cause they had like, six kids.526.8554
356LES_se0_ag3_f_01527.4057And they were like, the largest family. Everybody else, um,530.8887
358 531.7219you know, were not, not too big. Like my neighbor that lived below us,535.3499 
360 535.7600who536.1936 
362 536.4167still lives in the community and still recognizes me and my brothers all the time.540.0855 
365 541.2046she had a big542.2149
367 542.4014blended family, also. Her kids were all together and they had, like, two apartments546.4814 
369 546.7752together. Like, the walls were broken548.7460 
371 548.9838[through]549.3615 
373LES_se0_ag3_f_01549.5760to make the- the one- the two bedrooms into a four [bedroom.]553.0118
374LES_int_01552.6434[Right, right.]553.4268
375LES_se0_ag3_f_01553.3288[So] she had the biggest apartment, downstairs from us.555.8413
376 556.2201And then, you know, I remember my neighbors that lived upstairs, you know. So I mean, you know.560.0503
378 560.3907Pretty- pretty close.561.4912 
380 561.7495The tenement was rough, because it was owned by a Jewish family and565.4717 
382 565.7701they didn't take care of the tenement very well. Not at all. The guy was just like a slumlord.570.3242 
384 570.6972And that much I remember cause my mom was always fighting about574.0257 
386 574.4277the ceilings being broken. My uncle would come in and make some basic repairs, trying to fix stuff.579.3398 
388 579.6709We had the-580.6827 
390 580.9935the bathtub in the kitchen and the toilet [had the-]584.1363 
392LES_se0_ag3_f_01584.3415the t- the tank was on the top and there was a long string you had to pull it.588.2389
394 588.7129And I- I remember that- that bathroom591.4537 
396 591.5759<laugh> [o well.]592.4805 
397LES_int_01591.9256[Oh my God.]593.1512
398LES_se0_ag3_f_01592.7035[My uncle came] and he built a- a wall so we could have some privacy596.3445
399 596.6009in the kitchen.597.3796
401 597.7134And, um,598.6479 
403 599.0891you know. So it was- it was- it was really interesting.601.5513 
404LES_int_01602.6937Do you have good memories of a, kind of604.8231
406 605.1355being a kid and playing and606.4038 
408 606.6273friends and things like that?607.9892 
409LES_se0_ag3_f_01608.0871I remember all my friends from when I was younger. Like, I went to elementary school at /RD-SCHOOL-4/ on /RD-ADDRESS-4/. The /RD-SCHOOL-4/ school. [And]615.8570
411LES_se0_ag3_f_01616.1177I went there for two years. And618.1756
413 618.4216all of my friends /re-/ they pretty much, we all recognize each other when we see each other in the street. Like, hey how are you, [whatever.]624.5371 
415LES_se0_ag3_f_01624.8671And even the kids that lived down on the other side of- of First Avenue, you know, we were pretty cool with them.629.4974
417 629.7238Cause they all went to /RD-SCHOOL-4/.631.4356 
419 631.7897And, um, all my brothers went to the boy's club on Tenth Street.634.9751 
421LES_se0_ag3_f_01635.4169[So,] you know, I kind of grew up in the boy's club.637.9387
422 638.0226<laugh> Cause I, you know, I had no place to go.640.0767
424LES_se0_ag3_f_01640.3067[Girls] back then didn't have a club.642.1536
425 642.4936Before they did, uh, the BGR Club, which is now645.3249
427 645.5182the Henry Street owns that.647.0663 
429LES_se0_ag3_f_01647.4626[So] before that came about,649.0977
430 649.2329you know, we all kind of just hung out651.6884
432 651.8861wherever. [You know, wherever you could get in.]653.7543 
433LES_int_01652.6352[Right. As you got older,] you-654.4071
434LES_se0_ag3_f_01654.7102I- I volunteered at the boy's club and then they essentially gave me a summer job. (laughing)658.8780
435LES_int_01658.8780Oh, that's [good.]660.2350
437LES_int_01660.4588[That's nice.]661.2837
439 661.3532Yeah. I remember, um.662.8986
440LES_int_01662.9153So as you got older,664.1828
442 664.2743I-664.5500 
444 664.7704now at this point you were-666.7005 
445LES_se0_ag3_f_01667.0582I was in junior- once I went to junior high school, I went to the school that was directly around the corner. Which [was, uh,]672.7442
446LES_int_01672.0679[Oh, that's convenient.]673.0586
447LES_se0_ag3_f_01673.1752<laugh> /RD-SCHOOL-6/.674.9408
449 675.3138Which was one of the- not such a great school in the [community.]678.4333 
450LES_int_01678.2794[Oh,] really?679.0768
451LES_se0_ag3_f_01679.1218Yeah. Wasn't- it didn't have such a [great reputation.]681.7190
452LES_int_01680.7865[Didn't have a good rep?] <laugh>682.1760
453LES_se0_ag3_f_01682.9034Not such a good reputation [at all.]685.0382
454LES_int_01684.3714[Was it- was] it true?685.7417
455LES_se0_ag3_f_01685.8542It was [true, cause] l- lot- a lot of the kids [that went-] uh, that lived in the- the projects down on Avenue D,691.5833
458 687.7805[Okay.]688.2015 
459LES_se0_ag3_f_01691.7139they came up to First Avenue to go to school there.694.4774
461LES_se0_ag3_f_01694.7012[Cause] their parents didn't want them going to696.4685
462 696.8089n- whatever /RD-SCHOOL-6/ that was right there on Houston Street. Their parents didn't send them to [/RD-SCHOOL-3/.]703.0216
464LES_se0_ag3_f_01703.3625[Or] /RD-SCHOOL-3/ was too far, so they had to go to /RD-SCHOOL-2/.706.2705
465 706.4897Cause /RD-SCHOOL-2/ was directly up.708.2243
466LES_int_01708.5973[I get it.]709.0582
467LES_se0_ag3_f_01708.7325[From] like, Tenth Street and Twelfth Street, so all those kids just came on up.712.0789
469LES_se0_ag3_f_01712.5872I learned how to play hooky.714.2798
471LES_se0_ag3_f_01714.8712[I learned about marijuana] use. I didn't know anything about all that stuff until like, I really started like, getting known with the [kids.]721.1497
473LES_se0_ag3_f_01721.4155[Then my mother's] like, I don't want you hanging out with those kids from Avenue [D.]724.2878
474LES_int_01724.1447[S-] yeah. So was your mom a strict mom? Was she [lenient? Like, were you allowed to explore and-]729.3595
477 727.3918[Nah, she was-]728.1891 
479 728.5621[nope.]729.2849 
480 729.4387My mother was really like, very [strict.]731.7321
481LES_int_01731.5114[she was strict.]732.3149
483 732.7533And she was a young mom, but she was a strict [mom.]734.9067
484LES_int_01734.7577[So] you kind of had to stay close to [home.]736.4680
485LES_se0_ag3_f_01736.3095[Stay] close to home. We couldn't go past Avenue A.738.9160
486 739.5812Could not.740.1153
488 740.5604[And we couldn't] go any further than Tenth Street without her.743.3004 
490LES_se0_ag3_f_01743.7732She [would never send] us, like, beyond Tenth Street.745.9402
492LES_se0_ag3_f_01746.0517Not at all.746.7651
493LES_int_01747.3060No past Avenue A, you mean east? So not to Avenue [D?]749.9958
495 750.8071[Never.]751.3353
496LES_int_01751.1319[Couldn't] do it.751.6180
497LES_se0_ag3_f_01751.6401Couldn't do it.752.2105
499LES_se0_ag3_f_01752.5494[If I did] it, it was defying my mother.754.3026
500 754.7503Yeah, it was [really d-]755.5937
501LES_int_01755.3605[Did you] ever do [that? Or were you- /You were that rebellious./]757.9482
502LES_se0_ag3_f_01756.1297[of course I did. I was a kid. Of course.]758.4285
504LES_se0_ag3_f_01759.0254[Of] course. Especially like those middle school years, when I, you know, started feeling myself, hanging out with the- the crew.764.4830
505 764.7225That's when I got to know the black kids in the community. [Cause I didn't] even know they existed.768.7256
507LES_se0_ag3_f_01768.9821Up until- like, there was only one black girl in my-771.2838
509 771.5599my, um,772.3945 
511 773.1577elementary school with me. Her name was [/RD-NAME-3/ and I never forget] her. And she still lives here on the Lower East Side, so when we see each other. Hey.779.7028 
513LES_se0_ag3_f_01779.9359You remember being the only black kids in the school? Like, [yeah.] (laughing)782.8790
514LES_int_01782.6497[That's so funny.]783.9022
515LES_se0_ag3_f_01783.2590[We would laugh] and joke about it all the time. We still do.786.1571
516LES_int_01786.5463Because the black kids lived on [Avenue D?]788.5246
517LES_se0_ag3_f_01788.0788[Avenue D.]788.9414
518 789.4031[They all lived on] the Ave. [<laugh> As we called it.]792.1488
519LES_int_01789.4357[So once-]790.1631
521 791.0071[so once- yeah. Yeah,] yeah. So once you went to junior high then794.4802 
522 794.6434you795.1190
523LES_se0_ag3_f_01795.4455Then I [got exposed to the black kids] in [the neighborhood. That] was like,798.2788
526 797.2017[Yeah.]797.8910 
527LES_se0_ag3_f_01798.5073oh. There's black [kids. <laugh>]801.1372
528LES_int_01799.3291[You're like, look at that.]800.4471
530LES_int_01802.0391[So] that was a different experience, [then, I bet.]803.9380
531LES_se0_ag3_f_01803.4064[Different experience.] Um, I met new people, new m- made new friends. Um,808.5433
532 809.0842you know, not- not that I neglected the old friends that I had, but I think I picked a- a little bit of a- a swagger, you know, of the-815.7692
534 816.0910what the- the other Lower East Siders were like, [you know.]818.8903 
535LES_int_01818.4925[On the Ave.]819.1902
536LES_se0_ag3_f_01819.4280Yeah, the Ave [kids.]820.9761
537LES_int_01820.6590[Had a attitude?]821.6273
538LES_se0_ag3_f_01821.4174[And] they had major [attitude.] They talked back and,824.8260
540LES_se0_ag3_f_01825.0871you know, whereas the Spanish kids were a little bit more respectful. They were like, you know, like mm-mm. No, we're not gonna do some of those thing.830.9880
542 831.2245When you knew831.8226 
544 831.9998the Spanish kids that came from Avenue D,834.4495 
546 834.8022were like the black kids that came from Avenue D.837.0342 
548LES_se0_ag3_f_01837.4119[And] they all kind of blended in together, you know. Um,840.4792
549 840.8709pretty cool.841.6415
551 841.8734That's when, um,842.9816 
553 843.2573Compost Plaza was just being built. Around that time, [when I got] into, like, middle school.847.5652 
555LES_se0_ag3_f_01847.8031And the kids that lived in Compost Plaza were like the new families that lived in there.851.5131
557LES_se0_ag3_f_01851.8760[There] were a few black families that lived there, and we all thought they were like, really rich kids.855.7183
558 855.9432Cause Compost was this really fancy858.1027
561LES_int_01859.0366[It was] nice [when it was built. Yeah.]860.4775
562LES_se0_ag3_f_01859.6941[It was so] nice when it was put up.861.8895
564LES_se0_ag3_f_01862.5936Really, really [nice.]863.7298
566LES_se0_ag3_f_01864.2334And everybody was like, you live in Compost? Wow, your family must have money, you know.868.2954
568LES_se0_ag3_f_01868.5310[And all] those kids dressed nice and their families had good jobs, so.872.5411
569 873.0353You know, we just thought that they were like,874.3440
571 874.5072the best. Yeah, [yeah.] (laughing)877.2536 
574 875.6123[funny.]876.3272 
576 876.8340[Well, what about] high school? Were you still in [the neighborhood?]879.6595 
577LES_se0_ag3_f_01878.9222[High school,] I didn't go too far. I went to school on Fourteenth Street, at that time it was /RD-SCHOOL-5/ which was a all girls school.886.2460
579LES_se0_ag3_f_01886.6750[And] it was like, I think it was one of the m-888.6273
580 888.8603only all girls school that was left besides, um,891.8445
582 892.0491<ts>892.1849 
584 892.6087what was the other one? On, um,894.6546 
586 895.9043<ts> uh, Fourteenth Street and Union Square. The other one that was there.899.3254 
588LES_se0_ag3_f_01899.7309[Washington Irving] was a all [girls school, too, at that time.]903.0175
589LES_int_01901.1850[Oh. Was it? Oh,] I didn't [know that.]903.9888
590LES_se0_ag3_f_01903.4418[Yeah, and] then they integrated boys into the school, like I believe it wasn't907.7962
591 908.0510about eighty-four.909.1468
593 909.4592They s- they got boys. The year that I [was-]911.9865 
594LES_int_01911.5245[These were public] schools? [But they were just all girls?]913.9946
597 913.1833[Mm-hm.]913.5780 
599 913.7391[They were] all girls. And they were vocational high schools.916.2309 
601LES_se0_ag3_f_01916.6058So /RD-SCHOOL-3/ was the school, you know, like- you know, you wanted to go to /RD-SCHOOL-3/. At first920.6423
603 920.9827I wanted- I auditioned to go to the School of Performing Arts, cause I was very big on the arts. And926.2354 
605 926.5198I didn't make it in there, [so.]928.1960 
607LES_se0_ag3_f_01928.5062I [ended up-]929.0471
608LES_int_01928.6368[Which- which] arts were your930.2361
609LES_se0_ag3_f_01930.3154I was [into theater.] And singing. Yeah.932.6406
611 932.6453Cool, [cool.]933.3680
612LES_se0_ag3_f_01933.2375[And,] um934.0861
613 934.7798<ts> I didn't realize how intense it was [to audition to] get into those schools, so939.3769
614LES_int_01937.2034[I bet.]938.0433
615 939.4608[/??/.]940.2314
616LES_se0_ag3_f_01939.6567[I didn't make it. Cause I was-] (laughing)941.2218
618LES_se0_ag3_f_01941.4467[I guess I didn't take it serious.]942.9004
619 943.2315And, [um,]944.0895
620LES_int_01944.0335[How] could you [know? /??/ yeah.]946.1307
621LES_se0_ag3_f_01944.9195[I] didn't know. And my music teacher didn't know either. She was just like, yeah you can go try. Go try. Go [see.]949.6787
623LES_se0_ag3_f_01950.1123You know, I had no clue. Um, what I was up against (laughing). [Like,]953.1370
625LES_se0_ag3_f_01953.3468[These were] the best of the city kids, you know.955.4591
628 956.6681so I ended up going to /RD-SCHOOL-5/. And I met my current husband [there. We,] um-962.1208
630LES_se0_ag3_f_01962.3290but he was on his way out, I was on my way in.963.8538
632LES_se0_ag3_f_01964.2361[And,] um, and boys were there.965.6910
634LES_se0_ag3_f_01966.5396And, um, I believe eighty-four was the first years boys969.3777
636 969.5083got into the school, so.971.3548 
637LES_int_01971.4760Got it.971.8838
638LES_se0_ag3_f_01971.9050You know, it was- it was still pre- predominantly girls. [<laugh>] It was a g- [it was a-]975.6114
641 975.3180[/Fun nights/] for the [guys.]976.6176 
642LES_se0_ag3_f_01976.1746[ye-] yeah, I [guess. <laugh> I guess] it was great for [them.]979.5956
645 979.4604[And] how'd you like the school?980.6213 
646LES_se0_ag3_f_01980.6447I loved /RD-SCHOOL-5/. I grew a lot, I learned a lot. Um, I had great friends. I still have friends that,986.6629
648 986.8028you know, uh-987.4556 
650 987.6235attended the school.988.6850 
652LES_se0_ag3_f_01989.0161[It-] that life long friends. And, um,991.5574
653 991.7672you know. So I mean,992.8910
655 993.2314It was- it was fabulous, you know. And it- [and it-]995.1928 
657LES_se0_ag3_f_01995.4306and it- I guess I had a sense of pride cause I'm like, I live on the Lower East Side. Lot of these kids came from Brooklyn, the Bronx,1001.0067
659 1001.2725Harlem. [I was like, nah.]1003.0194 
660LES_int_011002.0356[They're commuting. <laugh>]1003.4200
661LES_se0_ag3_f_011003.3085[I'm] like, I can walk to school.1004.7820
662 1005.0198<laugh> I don't know anything about what you're going [through,]1007.1678
664LES_se0_ag3_f_011007.3963[riding] a train.1008.3149
665LES_int_011008.4734That's [so]1009.1137
666LES_se0_ag3_f_011008.9257[And, um,] yeah it was. It wasn't until my second year at /RD-SCHOOL-3/ that I had to go up to the, um, main building, which was1015.5827
668LES_se0_ag3_f_011015.8765on /RD-ADDRESS-5/.1017.3597
670 1017.5163I believe it [is, yeah.]1018.7774 
671LES_int_011018.0432[Oh, they had like, another campus?]1020.1555
672LES_se0_ag3_f_011019.1669[Yeah. There's the main] building.1020.8317
673 1020.9660It was in [/RD-ADDRESS-4/.]1022.3789
674LES_int_011022.1597[Got] it. [Got it.]1023.2656
675LES_se0_ag3_f_011022.8591[So,] you know, it felt good to get on the train like, I can ride the train [now. Like everybody else, you know.]1027.3217
677LES_se0_ag3_f_011027.8356And, uh, you know. So my mother's like, oh you don't need to ride the train.1030.7700
679 1030.9375Get off the train. [<laugh> Take the bus. Take the] bus.1033.4259 
680LES_int_011031.5229[<laugh> She's like,]1033.0715
681 1033.6824she [was like, /??/.]1034.5245
682LES_se0_ag3_f_011033.9062[I was like, nobody] takes the bus, mom. Everybody rides the train.1037.5572
683LES_int_011037.5976[That's funny.]1038.7307
685 1039.2296<ts> [It was really] cool.1040.2182
686LES_int_011039.4255[Then s-]1039.7767
687 1040.2228and so then what did you do after high school?1041.9788
688LES_se0_ag3_f_011042.4191After high school I went on to college. I went to /RD-SCHOOL-8/ way out in Bayside, Queens (laughing). Cause I wanted to get out of the neighborhood. I [was like,]1051.1681
690LES_se0_ag3_f_011051.5458I don't wanna be in the Lower East Side. I don't wanna go to BMCC. You know, I didn't wanna-1055.4704
692 1055.7921I wanted to actually go away to school, but my mom was fearful, um,1059.8904 
694 1060.2164you know, because of my health and everything. She really didn't want me going too far1063.5310 
696LES_se0_ag3_f_011063.8425[away] from her. Um,1065.3113
697 1065.7217And you [know, she-]1066.3123
698LES_int_011066.0099[So you commuted?]1066.8821
699LES_se0_ag3_f_011066.8392[yes. I commuted] to Bayside everyday, which was crazy.1070.0939
701 1070.2804[That's- that's] far.1071.6077
703 1071.6683Yeah. I- I left home, I ended up leaving home at twenty-one.1074.9137
705 1075.1282Like I- I left home and got my own apartment.1077.4254 
707LES_se0_ag3_f_011077.7592[I think] it was a lot of my mom's fears of me growing up. A lot of, um,1082.3207
708 1082.9061the1083.4315
710 1083.5423not knowing how the rent was going to be for her once I started working full [time.]1087.7047 
712LES_se0_ag3_f_011088.1757[Um,] I- I- I got my first full time job at, like, twenty.1091.7280
713 1092.0171And like, I, you know, I started earning a income. And it was more than what1096.7064
715 1097.0794she felt was1098.0757 
717 1098.1969affordable for her.1099.4745 
719 1099.9268And she didn't wanna go through the complications of living in section eight1102.9756 
721 1103.2180and giving them my income. And saying, you know, [now her rent is gonna be high.]1106.8776 
722LES_int_011105.3995[Right, cause that would've-]1106.3134
724 1106.6398[yeah.] That [affects your rent.]1108.4101 
725LES_se0_ag3_f_011107.4465[And, it] affected big time. So she was like, you know, not that she pushed me out. She really didn't, but1113.4128
726 1113.7157it was just- we just kept getting into these tug-o-war, these battles over money. [And-]1117.9606
728LES_se0_ag3_f_011118.4189and it just became1119.4868
730 1119.5800a little bit more than what I could handle, so I- I ventured up to Harlem.1122.9310 
732 1123.0150I got my first apartment up in [Harlem.]1124.8568 
735LES_int_011125.9370[How] was that?1126.6085
736LES_se0_ag3_f_011126.6691<laugh> [Scary as hell.]1129.1173
738LES_se0_ag3_f_011129.6572[Scary] as hell. I was- I was petrified to leave my apartment.1133.6525
739 1133.9929I lived up on a Hundred and Thirty-Eighth Street and Lenox Avenue, which was like, in the- in the heart of central Harlem.1139.8516
741 1140.1836Drug central.1141.5482 
743 1141.8467Prostitution. I didn't know nobody up there (laughing). I don't even know what took me up to [Harlem.]1148.0374 
744LES_int_011147.7203[Yeah, now] why did you not- [/is/- you] did not wanna stay in the [neighborhood] at the [time?]1151.6372
747 1150.8585[<ts>]1150.9673 
749 1151.1792[I could-]1151.5905 
750 1151.7429I didn't know that I could afford to live on the Lower East Side. And I don't think I even-1156.1492
752 1156.3931I don't even think I looked for apartments on the Lower East Side.1159.0386 
754 1159.2625I think all the places I looked for apartments1161.4960 
756 1161.9623they started off in Harlem. Just because I worked in Harlem. I [worked at]1165.4718 
757LES_int_011164.8015[Oh, you were] working in [Harlem.]1166.1153
758LES_se0_ag3_f_011165.8729[Presbyterian] Hospital, which was up like, a Hundred and Sixty-eighth Street.1169.1178
759LES_int_011169.4905So now, at this point, did you s- you stopped going to1172.1429
761 1172.3154[school? You're working-1173.3273 
762LES_se0_ag3_f_011172.4956[I stopped going to college, I- I started working] full time. I worked actually as a research assistant.1177.8432
763LES_int_011173.6194[you were working full time.]1174.5700
764 1177.8712Mm-hm.1178.3428
765LES_se0_ag3_f_011178.4027Um, for the psychiatric institute.1180.3845
767 1180.7466So I- I did [pretty good for myself.] I [made a] decent [salary.]1183.6888 
768LES_int_011181.4732[That's great.]1182.1524
770 1182.3413[Yeah.]1182.7516 
772 1183.6142[Yeah.]1184.0246 
773LES_se0_ag3_f_011184.1691I stayed with them for about six years.1186.1920
776LES_int_011187.1435[That's] great.1187.7646
777LES_se0_ag3_f_011187.8893Until I ventured out.1189.0301
779 1189.2540[<laugh>]1189.9114 
781LES_se0_ag3_f_011190.3777[<laugh> I] got married.1191.4642
783LES_se0_ag3_f_011191.7812[I had] a baby.1192.7698
784 1193.1568And I ventured out, and I moved to Queens. I got a s- uh, two bedroom apartment.1197.4171
786LES_se0_ag3_f_011198.0373And, um,1198.9822
788 1199.1114in Maspeth.1200.0733 
790 1200.4697[Very quiet]1201.3976 
792LES_se0_ag3_f_011201.5328neighborhood. Didn't know anything about that either.1203.8308
794 1204.0686But my uncle,1204.9089 
796 1205.1504he worked at a shop downstairs and, um, the landlord owned the- a building1209.5553 
798 1209.7744next door to his shop.1210.8702 
800 1211.2479So he got me an apartment there. Really, you know, the rent wasn't1213.8295 
802 1214.0720all that affordable. It was like1215.6621 
804 1215.7693six hundred dollars a month.1217.1860 
806 1217.8342I went from paying three [fifty-eight or] three twenty-eight or something like that. I was paying like,1222.2297 
807LES_int_011219.2217[/How was that?/]1220.0568
810LES_se0_ag3_f_011223.0364dirt rent cheap [for]1224.1881
811LES_int_011223.9783[That] is really [something.]1225.1191
812LES_se0_ag3_f_011224.6668[a one bedroom] apartment <laugh> to paying1227.2733
813LES_int_011227.9215That's [/un-/]1228.5059
814LES_se0_ag3_f_011228.3590[double] the price for a two [bedroom.]1230.3806
816LES_se0_ag3_f_011230.8537In a two-fare zone, at the time.1232.7872
818LES_se0_ag3_f_011233.8177Which there was no free transfer, at that time.1236.2890
820 1236.7786So i- it got [to be.]1238.2717 
821LES_int_011237.6432[So you spent] like a total of1239.8778
822 1240.2116eight, ten years away from the neighborhood?1242.2093
824LES_int_011242.3492[Cause you were in Harlem- Harlem, and then]1243.8956
825LES_se0_ag3_f_011243.8956[Queens, yep.]1244.9728
828LES_int_011245.4194[And then you came] back [when your mom passed away.]1247.4454
829LES_se0_ag3_f_011246.0864[And then I came back when my mom] passed away.1248.1884
830LES_int_011248.3407[Got it. Got it.]1249.0473
832 1249.3038So like th- the bulk of the1251.4470
834 1252.7807early l- late eighties, early nineties.1255.1627 
836 1255.4515Actually, I don't even think I was away for that long.1257.5641 
838 1257.9045I w- I- I don't think it was a whole six years that I was gone from the [neighborhood.]1261.4979 
839LES_int_011261.3767[Oh,] okay.1262.0095
840LES_se0_ag3_f_011262.1135Yeah. And then, um, I came back here,1264.9943
842 1265.7264back to this building.1266.7934 
844LES_se0_ag3_f_011267.2354[Back] to the craziness [and landlord.]1269.0813
845LES_int_011268.3772[How did that feel?] Did it- did you wanna come back?1270.5781
848 1271.8557didn't really wanna come back, but I think I needed to come for the sake of my brother.1276.0787 
850 1276.4284Who, um, is autistic and [he needed someone] to be here. He was1280.5636 
852LES_se0_ag3_f_011280.8061fifteen at the time, and1282.6052
854 1283.0994it was- he needed to be in the neighborhood where he was familiar with. And I think his therapist and I discussed that.1288.8425 
856 1289.1689And it was really a lot for him1290.6537 
858 1290.9532making the- the move for him to come to Queens every day and,1294.7433 
860LES_se0_ag3_f_011295.0464[you know,] I tried to1296.3287
861 1296.5508have family members stay here with him. It didn't work.1299.3953
863 1299.8896Um,1300.4818 
865 1300.6030then the landlord started1302.2202 
867 1302.4161inquiring, like, who are these1303.8476 
869 1303.9502people m- staying in and out of your mom's apartment.1306.5979 
871 1306.8870You know, somebody has to be in care of your brother.1309.6225 
873 1309.9069And so that's when I discovered I had to get custody of my brother and all these [other things that came into play.]1314.8644 
874LES_int_011313.4228[Oh, wow.]1314.6623
875LES_se0_ag3_f_011315.2778And, um,1316.0502
877 1316.5364essentially find my biological father, and1319.2343 
878LES_int_011319.2435Oh my [gosh.]1320.3494
879LES_se0_ag3_f_011319.5839[file for custody] of my brother. So it- [it was- it was a- it was a] big learning experience at the age of [twenty-five. <laugh>]1325.9099
880LES_int_011321.9244[Oh, wow.]1322.9896
882 1325.1836[Yeah.] That's a lot [of responsibility.]1327.7284 
883LES_se0_ag3_f_011326.3625[<laugh> It was a lot.] It was a lot.1328.4232
884LES_int_011328.7480Oh [my gosh.]1329.7692
887 1329.6619[that's] when I learned about landlord tenant court.1332.2498 
888 1332.4037[<laugh>]1334.4025
890LES_se0_ag3_f_011334.8128[All that] stuff. Um, I learned that my income was too high for this building at the time.1340.1596
891 1340.5233They jacked my rent up to like, nine hundred dollars a [month. And my brother was on] a fixed income, and1345.8335
892LES_int_011343.3901[Oh no.]1344.4133
893LES_se0_ag3_f_011346.2290I was, you know, trying to make ends meet with a husband and a kid and.1349.5482
895LES_se0_ag3_f_011350.4109[<sigh>] It was- [it was a lot.]1351.8144
896LES_int_011351.1476[What were you working-] doing for work at the [time?]1353.1213
897LES_se0_ag3_f_011352.6288[I was still] working up at the hospital.1354.5966
898 1355.1701<ts> So my- my i- my income was pretty good. I mean, you know.1357.9344
900 1358.2934Wasn't, you know, the greatest but it was like twenty-one thousand at that time, in the [nineties and the early- it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, for that] time it was decent salary.1365.7983 
901LES_int_011362.0913[That's pretty good for that time. Yeah, yeah.]1364.2082
902LES_se0_ag3_f_011366.2086And, um, so they-1367.4614
904LES_se0_ag3_f_011367.6199[they] jacked my rent [up.]1368.9675
905LES_int_011368.7063[Oh] my gosh.1370.0632
906LES_se0_ag3_f_011370.1052And then when I left the hospital I started working1372.3248
908 1372.6962as a case manager in Brooklyn, so my- my income went up even higher.1376.5711 
910 1376.9136And they raised my rent even higher. (laughing)1378.8636 
912 1379.1340I was almost paying about a thousand dollars a month for rent in here.1381.5821 
913LES_int_011381.7499[Oh my gosh.]1383.1286
914LES_se0_ag3_f_011381.9395[And- and- and it- it was] the same conditions.1384.4668
915LES_int_011384.6673And you- and did you end up1385.8443
917 1386.0662taking the landlord to1387.4417 
918LES_se0_ag3_f_011387.7402Oh I- [they] took me to court. They actually tried to sue me for all the back rent after my mom passed away.1392.9936
920LES_se0_ag3_f_011393.2175[They did sue me for all the back] rent. Um,1395.6359
923 1393.6824[god.]1394.5611 
924LES_se0_ag3_f_011395.9483they said that I never claimed my income.1398.0653
926 1398.4336And they sued me for the back rent. I ended up paying all the stuff, yeah.1402.1484 
927LES_int_011402.5401[That's terrible.]1403.9684
930 1403.2332[Yep.]1403.5503 
932 1403.9187[And] I owed them, like,1405.1730 
933 1405.2756a-1405.5927
935 1405.7419I- I guess it was something like ten thousand dollars.1408.1619 
937 1408.5489They made me pay them [back]1409.7550 
938LES_int_011409.6105[Oh my gosh.]1411.2705
939LES_se0_ag3_f_011409.9369[in order to live here. Yeah.]1411.3124
940 1411.5969So I had to take out a loan. Had to pay the loan [back. Ah, it was crazy.]1415.8207
941LES_int_011414.4451[Oh, no.]1415.9326
942LES_se0_ag3_f_011416.1051Just to stay here.1417.2037
944 1417.5172<laugh>1418.1513 
945LES_int_011418.2772So you're working as a case worker, you said, how long did you do [that?]1421.3248
946LES_se0_ag3_f_011421.0741[<ts> I] stayed there for about two years doing case management.1423.6791
948LES_se0_ag3_f_011424.1687And I1425.4269
950 1425.5108lost my job in, um, believe it was ninety-five-1431.0962 
952 1432.2043was my youngest son. Yeah, about ninety-five, I lost my job.1435.5930 
954LES_se0_ag3_f_011436.1492And, um,1437.0771
956 1437.4454I1437.9334 
958 1438.3205got pregnant with my youngest son [and] I believe at that time, um,1442.4658 
960LES_se0_ag3_f_011442.8007you know, I just went to school.1443.8126
962 1443.9151I was going to school. I took up, um, medical assistant. I just decided to just go back to school.1448.9945 
964LES_se0_ag3_f_011449.5510And, um,1450.5752
966 1450.7011did that for about a year. And after the birth of my youngest son in ninety-six,1454.4221 
968 1454.7080I got really, really sick.1455.8520 
970 1456.4489[So,]1456.9991 
971LES_int_011456.5794[Oh you did?]1457.3488
972LES_se0_ag3_f_011457.5307I got really sick and I ended up being a-1459.7782
974 1459.8854out1460.2352 
976 1460.4166from work completely, and um, being on disability.1463.8329 
977LES_int_011463.9925Oh, [no.]1464.6529
978LES_se0_ag3_f_011464.3462[And I stayed] on disability for about1466.3916
979 1466.5409ten years of my [life.]1467.6511
980LES_int_011467.5341[Oh] my gosh. I'm so sorry.1469.6892
981LES_se0_ag3_f_011470.2385<ts> [Yep.]1470.7468
983 1471.5425Are you1472.2979
985 1472.3952feeling- doing better [now?]1473.7901 
986LES_se0_ag3_f_011473.5849[Doing] better now, still have a health [condition.]1476.2373
987LES_int_011476.0787[You look]1476.4611
989LES_int_011476.6383picture of [health.]1477.5289
991LES_int_011478.0232[I'm] surprised to hear [that.]1479.4570
992LES_se0_ag3_f_011479.3093[Doing better.]1480.1380
994LES_se0_ag3_f_011480.2364[Um,] I'm living, you know, life with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, [so.]1484.3530
995LES_int_011484.1711[Oh, I'm sorry.]1485.4013
996LES_se0_ag3_f_011484.6646[I'll be living with that.]1485.6449
997 1485.7697But it's okay, you know, it comes and it goes. You get symptoms, it [goes and it comes.]1489.6811
999LES_se0_ag3_f_011490.1331And, [um, had a home attendant.] I went through that whole process1493.9693
1000LES_int_011490.7122[Oh my gosh.]1491.6939
1001 1494.1145Oh my [gosh.]1494.9780
1002LES_se0_ag3_f_011494.4729[And now I'm back] at work full time.1495.9924
1003LES_int_011496.5060Now you're back at [working.] And you- what are you doing now?1498.5560
1005 1498.5654I am a site coordinator at an after school program in Brooklyn. I work for one of the1503.2368
1007 1503.6238oldest organizations on the Lower East Side, um, /RD-WORK-8/.1507.0121 
1008LES_int_011507.0774Oh, right. Right.1507.9634
1010 1508.0753When I call [you,] that- I n- I knew- I knew you worked for them. But you1511.7387 
1012LES_int_011511.8413are on site somewhere else [in Brooklyn?]1513.5060
1013LES_se0_ag3_f_011513.0537[I'm out] in Brooklyn now, so I went from working at /RD-WORK-5/ on Third Street1517.7857
1015LES_se0_ag3_f_011518.3063and, um,1519.2809
1017 1519.4068they moved me out to Brooklyn when we opened up our first site in Brooklyn.1523.1017 
1018LES_int_011523.1635That's great. [How do you like] it?1524.5654
1020 1524.6323I love it. I love the kids. I love the- the families that I work with, they're awesome people.1528.8561
1022 1529.2757Um, different- very much the same because we're all kind of like, in the same boat. Everybody's1534.2207 
1024 1534.7429low-income, working [class] families [just trying to make it.]1537.7458 
1027 1536.6376[working them all.]1537.6767 
1028 1537.8577[Yeah.]1538.2293
1030LES_int_011538.7950That's [nice.]1539.7010
1033 1539.5610[Yeah.]1539.9644 
1034LES_int_011540.2902That's great.1540.8518
1036LES_int_011542.0197Good life history.1543.1336
1038LES_int_011543.5176[I think we've hit everything], I think. Um, <ts>1545.5961
1039 1545.9459so let me ask you some of your opinions about the neighborhood. I mean, you've-1548.7556
1041 1549.1519you've come and gone so many times in your life.1552.1913 
1043 1552.7781How do you see1553.9485 
1046 1554.4894[I don't-]1554.8997 
1047LES_int_011554.4894[these great] changes that [have happened?]1556.6459
1050 1556.4508[it's] so interesting. The Lower East Side is just one of those places that I just-1560.5542 
1051 1560.8480I guess I just gravitated back to it because it's such a strong sense1564.7539
1053 1565.0243of community here.1566.0035 
1055 1566.3113People know you, people remember you, people recognize you from your childhood [years.]1570.9988 
1057LES_se0_ag3_f_011571.4435People that I grew up with,1572.6403
1059 1572.7569um,1573.2418 
1061 1573.3537they never forget your face. They always ask about my brothers, they ask about my,1577.6867 
1063 1578.0103you know, how I was doing with, you know, without my mom. [And]1580.8454 
1065LES_se0_ag3_f_011581.2371you know, they remember me.1582.4012
1067 1582.4991And people that knew me from when I was two1585.4943 
1069 1585.9404still remember my family, you know. Like if I see them in the street, oh, I remember you when you were two years old.1590.7135 
1071 1590.9747And you used to hang out in the [window.]1592.6067 
1073LES_se0_ag3_f_011593.0362[And you would] talk to me in the window, and, you know.1595.3982
1074 1595.8498People like that, you know, people never forget you.1598.1912
1075LES_int_011598.3257And you [still] feel that? That that exists [today?]1600.7262
1078 1600.6618[It's] a strong sense of community here. I think [that]1603.1463 
1079LES_int_011602.8619[That's great.]1603.5570
1080LES_se0_ag3_f_011603.5100[once] you live on the Lower East Side, and once you know who your neighbors are,1606.9335
1081 1607.5558they-1608.1464
1083 1608.2396you're really connected to you neighbors. Like, the new people that move in, I don't think they feel the same sense that we feel.1613.9517 
1085LES_se0_ag3_f_011614.4817[Um,] the true Lower East Siders that have been here like, my neighbors that have been here when we first moved in.1619.4608
1089 1620.9903always ask about how you doing, how's your kids doing, [how's you family.]1624.9148 
1091LES_se0_ag3_f_011625.2219And it's genuine, it's not just being nosy, you know.1627.7134
1093 1627.8136some people, you know, you know they're just being [nosy.]1630.0836 
1094LES_int_011629.6080[Right.] (laughing)1630.3060
1095LES_se0_ag3_f_011630.5079But even in their nosiness, I know that there's a genuine concern.1633.4002
1097LES_se0_ag3_f_011633.7626[You know,] like, um,1634.7372
1098 1634.8257so a lot of them know you family history1636.8945
1100LES_se0_ag3_f_011637.2908[and] they can remember when,1638.7969
1101 1639.0394you know, they- they know all the good, the bad, and the [ugly.]1642.2739
1103LES_se0_ag3_f_011642.7681Um, and we all just kind of came up together, so you know each other. [You know, you can't] run away from it.1648.4040
1105LES_se0_ag3_f_011648.9495And they know that you're connected to them in some kind of way.1651.9333
1109 1653.5689<ts> I think the neighborhood has changed in a way where there's a lot of upper income1657.4684 
1111 1657.6286families that have moved into the community,1659.8342 
1113LES_se0_ag3_f_011660.2352that can afford to go back and forth.1662.1967
1114 1662.6354If they wanted to, they can leave the Lower East Side at any given time.1666.1306
1116 1666.2285[And- and] they can afford to leave.1667.8419 
1118LES_se0_ag3_f_011668.1076Whereas the people that really live here1670.2207
1120 1670.6629they can't afford to leave.1672.0835 
1122LES_se0_ag3_f_011672.2280[It's like,] they don't1672.9881
1123 1673.1047know any other community. They don't know how to,1675.3150
1125 1675.7485you know, like I know I could walk to Fourteenth Street.1678.1250 
1127 1678.8105I know [that.]1679.4893 
1129LES_se0_ag3_f_011679.9774I know I could get to the doctor's office, whether it's East Side, West Side, or wherever. I know1685.3862
1131 1685.6960where I could get to,1686.7125 
1133 1686.8197you know.1687.2564 
1135 1687.3543[And I] have a strong sense of where I'm at.1689.7511 
1137 1689.8630[Right.]1690.3216
1138LES_se0_ag3_f_011690.0402[So] even with my eyes closed, I know where I am at all times. If you tell me1693.7269
1139 1693.9787oh, you're on1694.8600
1141 1695.1211Avenue A1696.1423 
1143 1696.3335and Second Street. Oh, okay. I know exactly where I am, I know the stores that are on that block, you know,1700.8362 
1144LES_int_011700.8362In your [mind.]1701.3285
1145LES_se0_ag3_f_011701.1487[I] know that.1701.8248
1149 1703.8049the transient people that come here, I call them transient because they d- they- they- they really don't know.1708.3738 
1151 1708.7748You know, [they're-]1709.3607 
1152LES_int_011709.2555[Planning not to stay.]1710.5224
1153LES_se0_ag3_f_011709.5029[they're trying to find-] they- yeah that- they-1711.4170
1154 1711.5616they're not gonna stay long.1712.8579
1156LES_se0_ag3_f_011713.1470[If they] stay it's because they don't wanna lose that low,1715.7755
1157 1715.8819uh, income or affordable apartment that they have.1718.4098
1159 1718.6429That somebody had to1719.7247 
1161 1720.0687sweat1720.6137 
1163 1720.9228and earn to get.1722.2173 
1165 1722.6106Or somebody put their blood, sweat, and tears into.1724.9456 
1167LES_se0_ag3_f_011725.2152[You know,] they fixed up their apartments like it's their homes, you know.1728.4178
1169LES_se0_ag3_f_011728.6556[Like, they] painted all these nice colors and they put fancy tiles and,1732.6742
1170 1732.9494you know, they do all these things because this is where they assume they gonna be for the rest of their [lives.]1737.4875
1171LES_int_011737.3355[Right, right.]1738.1889
1172LES_se0_ag3_f_011738.0800[People] don't really see themselves as leaving here.1740.6446
1174LES_se0_ag3_f_011741.1435[You know.]1741.6798
1177LES_int_011743.3677[Now there's] a couple of periods that a lot of people talk about, I'm just curious if you see these as periods or experience that, but you know, the seventies and eighties as being kind of a1752.8395
1179LES_int_011753.0392period where there was1753.8218
1181 1753.9710a lot more crime. And there was-1755.9248 
1183 1756.0274there were drugs in the neighborhood.1757.6267 
1185 1757.9983Is that something that1759.0303 
1187 1759.4017you experienced yourself or saw, you feel is still the same or different?1763.3605 
1188LES_se0_ag3_f_011763.5144Well, I can tell you on Thirteenth Street1766.1427
1190 1766.6508we didn't really have a lot of- of drugs1768.7958 
1192 1769.1833at that time, in the eighties. I think, like,1771.3413 
1194 1771.7319it- it wasn't a lot of, like,1773.2053 
1196 1773.3079on that particular block where we [lived, it was pretty] decent.1776.2354 
1198LES_se0_ag3_f_011776.5525But if you went the block down,1778.4067
1200 1778.5420to between, like, B and C,1780.2999 
1202 1780.5843and then D,1781.4797 
1204 1781.7687it- [it got-]1782.3236 
1205LES_int_011781.9832/[If,] uh,/ you went to the Ave.1783.4457
1206LES_se0_ag3_f_011783.4830yeah. It got progressively [worse. And you] know there was a lot of drug use. And that's the reason why my mom1788.2664
1208LES_se0_ag3_f_011788.5275didn't let us go beyond a certain point.1790.3087
1210 1790.6258That's why we couldn't go1791.7526 
1212 1791.9298beyond Tenth Street without my mom. [Because]1794.0841 
1214LES_se0_ag3_f_011794.2986then it was avid drug use going on.1796.3673
1217 1797.4164you know, um, even on this block when we first moved here on /RD-ADDRESS-3/, it was rough.1803.1463
1219LES_se0_ag3_f_011803.6204Really, really [rough.]1804.9715
1220LES_int_011804.8467[This] was [you said, nineteen eighty-five?]1807.4859
1221LES_se0_ag3_f_011805.3643[All of Forsyth Street.]1807.1960
1223 1807.3499[Yeah,] eighty-five. It was really bad. It was a lot of prostitution on Forsyth.1811.5280 
1225LES_se0_ag3_f_011812.1006Forsyth was over w- overrun with [prostitution and]1815.6474
1227LES_se0_ag3_f_011815.9505heavy drug use.1817.0276
1229 1817.3447That park across the street was1819.1631 
1231 1819.3318extremely dangerous1821.3159 
1233 1821.6268at night. Lot of drug use, a lot of crack and [cocaine going on.]1825.3905 
1234LES_int_011824.5798[Oh, yeah.]1825.5910
1235LES_se0_ag3_f_011825.9090Um, a lot of IV drug use going on, [at that] particular time.1829.7534
1237LES_se0_ag3_f_011830.0611The Bowery was overrun, this- this, um,1832.9645
1239 1833.3842Sunshine Hotel that was right here- that's still here on the [corner.]1836.6088 
1241LES_se0_ag3_f_011837.0445It- it's a- a little SRO. A- it's- it- it was incredibly overwhelmed with- with a lot of drug use.1843.9665
1243LES_se0_ag3_f_011844.3489[So] at night, we- you know, we didn't go outside at [night.]1847.4528
1244LES_int_011847.0658[Did you ever] have any bad experiences, um, muggings [or, you know.]1851.1815
1245LES_se0_ag3_f_011850.6266[No, but] it was a [lot of-]1852.1514
1246LES_int_011851.8623[Did you ever] feel scared?1852.9899
1247LES_se0_ag3_f_011853.2676Of course.1854.0119
1249 1854.1471Cause like, my mom made friends with all the alcoholics b- she made her business1858.2302 
1251 1858.5333to let the alcoholics in the neighborhood, the homeless men, know who her kids were.1862.4252 
1253 1862.7936So they knew to look out for [us. And my] mom would feed them on Sunday so1866.9296 
1255LES_se0_ag3_f_011867.1712she knew that we would be okay1868.9928
1257 1869.2260coming home. Like, oh I knew your mother. Your mother's /RD-NAME-2/, right? Yeah, okay.1872.8491 
1259 1873.1148And like, oh, your mother's from South Carolina. And she knew.1875.9361 
1261 1876.2840She knew1876.9508 
1263 1877.4404how to blend in and make friends with the people1880.5723 
1265 1880.7681so that we would be okay.1882.0364 
1269 1883.9902<cough> excuse me. In this building,1885.8631 
1271 1886.6231<ts> actually there's only six black families, and maybe like1889.3874 
1273 1889.6858three that came in-1890.8469 
1275 1891.8354<cough> [excuse me.]1892.7897 
1276LES_int_011892.5006[Really,] that few?1893.3726
1277LES_se0_ag3_f_011893.3959When we came in [here.]1894.4357
1278LES_int_011894.2166[I'm surprised.]1895.0627
1279 1895.2611Oh, [okay.]1895.8996
1280LES_se0_ag3_f_011895.7639[<cough> Excuse me.]1896.7291
1281LES_int_011896.3607[Are you okay?] Yeah, d- don't worry about it.1897.7456
1282LES_se0_ag3_f_011899.6325<cough> I'm sorry, [my mouth got really dry.]1901.6424
1283LES_int_011900.4298[Do you- No, that's okay.] Do you want me to get you some water?]1902.5375
1284LES_se0_ag3_f_011902.9804Get some water.]1903.5819
1285LES_int_011904.3124Feel free to, um, yeah.1905.0025
1287 1905.3569The clip, no worries.1906.0703 
1289 1906.3221I'll just pause it.1906.9607 
1290LES_se0_ag3_f_011909.3794Would you care for some [water?]1910.6188
1291LES_int_011910.5498[No,] I'm fine. Thank you so much.1912.3263
1292LES_se0_ag3_f_011915.6782Yeah, it's very few black families that live here.1917.8168
1294 1918.2412He refuses to take more.1919.4582 
1295LES_int_011920.6006Is that r- true?1921.4111
1299 1922.9685is that, [I mean-]1924.1818 
1300LES_se0_ag3_f_011923.7659[He doesn't want] m- more black families in this building.1925.8579
1301LES_int_011926.0445That's so funny.1926.9024
1303LES_int_011927.0610[And so] what's the make up here then?1928.6230
1306LES_se0_ag3_f_011930.5628Asian and Dominican.1931.5451
1309 1934.6552Is that- I mean, that-1935.4658 
1311 1935.7922that1935.9837 
1313 1936.4916doesn't seem right.1937.1192 
1314LES_se0_ag3_f_011938.0143He refuses to take more.1939.3437
1317 1941.1482[Thank you.]1941.5866
1318LES_int_011941.2555[that's terrible.]1941.8476
1320LES_int_011943.8185Um, okay so- so you did sort of see some of the1947.7389
1322 1948.1997sort of quote unquote bad period. I mean, did- has it seemed to get better as [you've noticed?]1953.0863 
1323LES_se0_ag3_f_011952.2987[<sigh> Well,] my brother fell victim of the neighborhood. Um,1955.8222
1324 1956.2745he began, you know, smoking marijuana at the age of ten. Hanging out1960.4649
1326 1960.8553in the neighborhood, you know, where my mom didn't want him to go on the Ave, he hung out there. And1965.8583 
1328LES_se0_ag3_f_011966.4038[then] when we moved over to this side of town,1968.5954
1329 1969.3321he still1970.0673
1331 1970.1792hung out with those kids, even though she1971.9791 
1333 1972.3614kept us in organization. She- we belonged to different things. We belonged to a church1976.6030 
1335 1977.0787um, in the community. [So] like, we did everything here on the Lower East Side except, you know, visit relatives that all lived in Queens.1983.5997 
1337 1983.7302Yeah.1984.1545
1338LES_se0_ag3_f_011984.7001But, um,1985.4135
1340 1986.3414<ts> my brother fell1987.4403 
1342 1987.5429into the trap of- of the1990.0049 
1344 1990.3499hanging out and party scene. [And]1992.5928 
1346LES_se0_ag3_f_011992.9129you know, and he's five years younger than me.1994.6895
1348LES_se0_ag3_f_011995.3236And, um,1995.9904
1350 1996.7971<ts> he was far more exposed to things that1998.8938 
1352 1999.2948I wasn't. Like,2000.1854 
1354 2000.2974I just came and went, like I had friends from school, but my brother had friends2003.9328 
1356 2004.1846like, real true friends from the community. And2006.6823 
1358 2006.9659he was very much connected to them.2008.5335 
1360LES_se0_ag3_f_012009.3728Yeah. [So he started] using drugs and hanging out and got a part of the party scene. [And]2014.1274
1363 2014.0201[Yeah.]2014.4305 
1364LES_se0_ag3_f_012014.4538essentially went to jail, and2016.4262
1366 2016.8085you know. [So] he fell. He fell into the [trap.]2019.0646 
1369 2019.0180[Yeah.]2019.3817 
1371LES_int_012019.7904Yeah, so you've experience first hand that2021.9307
1373 2022.5555influence [that the drug scene had.]2025.1994 
1374LES_se0_ag3_f_012023.1710[<ts> Very much so.]2024.3554
1376 2024.9989[Yep.]2025.3439 
1377LES_int_012026.4194And- and has it decreased? I mean,2028.5038
1379 2028.6436do [you-]2029.0946 
1380LES_se0_ag3_f_012028.8255[I think]2029.7954
1381 2029.9259it hasn't really decreased. I think it's become more indoors, and I think it's gotten [into now]2034.9929
1383LES_se0_ag3_f_012035.2960the bar scene.2036.3830
1385LES_se0_ag3_f_012037.1223[So] the alcohol2038.6954
1386 2039.3465has progressed and all of the drugs have gone inside these little night lounges and2044.0431
1388 2044.3481clubs and stuff like that. [So I think that's] what's going on now.2047.3929 
1390 2047.5686[Okay.]2048.0909
1391LES_se0_ag3_f_012047.8157[We have]2048.3701
1392 2048.4592way too many bars in the community. Just way too many. I think [that]2052.8602
1393LES_int_012052.8089[So many.]2053.7580
1394LES_se0_ag3_f_012053.2705[the Lower East] Side has become2054.9399
1395 2055.0844over2055.7962
1397 2055.9554run2056.5701 
1399 2056.8407with2057.1485 
1401 2057.2510bars and lounges.2058.9390 
1403LES_se0_ag3_f_012059.4457[And] the people that spill out into the streets at night is ridiculous.2063.5237
1404 2064.0659I don't remember being a kid, having so many bars in this neighborhood. In fact, we didn't.2067.9664
1406 2068.5262In this community, at the time when I was a kid, it was penny candy stores and the local2072.9470 
1408 2073.2886grocery store. Everybody had a bodega on every corner, there was a [bodega. And, you know,]2077.3472 
1412 2079.2574<ts> everybody's family owned a little stand or a sandwich shop [or something] like that.2083.6498 
1414LES_se0_ag3_f_012084.0679There wasn't these bars that you see now. The bars were not really2087.9661
1416 2088.0640in our community. Like,2089.4333 
1418 2090.1467now on every block there's like, two and three [bars.]2093.3249 
1419LES_int_012093.0704[I know.]2093.7978
1420LES_se0_ag3_f_012093.9138[And it's ridiculous.] Not even restaurants, but a bar.2096.7804
1421LES_int_012093.9138[I know.]2094.4174
1422 2096.9576Right.2097.3306
1424 2097.7643everybody has to have a liquor license because if you're on the Lower East Side, of course you have to have alcohol.2102.4955
1426 2102.8033You can't be2103.7872 
1428 2104.0903a- a restaurant on the Lower East Side and not serve [alcohol.]2107.2133 
1430LES_se0_ag3_f_012107.6231So it is really [ridiculous.]2110.4612
1432LES_se0_ag3_f_012111.1234You know, like, my kids are so over-exposed. Like, they always laugh about the people2115.3005
1434 2115.7202that are, you know, the neighborhood alcoholics. And they're like, laughing mommy you shoulda heard the fight last night.2121.7197 
1436 2122.0694You know, the- the spill outs into the street at three and four o'clock in the morning. [And stuff that] they2126.9686 
1438LES_se0_ag3_f_012127.3183you know, at three or four in the morning you should be sleeping.2129.5764
1440 2129.7274Not them, cause they hear everything that goes on.2131.9656 
1442LES_se0_ag3_f_012132.4738[You] know. The bar fights.2133.8431
1443 2133.9411[<laugh>]2134.8130
1444LES_int_012134.3980[Now, are] the people that are spilling out onto the street, are these like,2137.8999
1445 2138.0055the working folks that you've been talking [about, or?]2140.5701
1448 2140.2996[They don't] live in our community.2141.6146 
1450LES_se0_ag3_f_012141.7405[A lot of these people] are- they're driving in.2144.2335
1451 2145.0589I noticed that. They get in their cars, they drive in, the drive [out.]2148.0524
1452LES_int_012147.9304[Oh] they drive out.2148.7724
1454LES_int_012148.8855[That's terrible.]2149.6416
1456LES_int_012150.7273I mean, you're sort of speaking to the, sort of, other2152.9209
1458 2153.2640s-2153.4458 
1460 2153.6930period or force that I was gonna ask you about, which is the-2156.1953 
1462 2156.3259the idea of a- the Lower East Side as,2158.1763 
1464 2158.3161you know, getting gentrified.2159.5472 
1466 2160.0041And if there's all these,2161.2988 
1468 2161.4340you know, wealthier folks moving [in, white folks] moving in.2164.5722 
1470LES_int_012165.0897I mean, that's a little-2165.8342
1471LES_se0_ag3_f_012165.9088[It's not even-]2166.6409
1472LES_int_012166.1000[a little more reason-]2167.0652
1473LES_se0_ag3_f_012166.8227[I w- I wouldn't even] say it's the white folks moving in because, I'm'a be honest with you,2170.8142
1475LES_se0_ag3_f_012171.2136even as a kid we had a lot of white families that lived on the Lower East [Side. Except,]2175.6853
1477LES_se0_ag3_f_012176.0210they were more like, hippie-ish. As they would [say.]2178.7519
1481 2179.7777my mother befriended a lot of them.2181.6413 
1483 2181.7252[You know, even] some of the Jewish families, my mother was really close friends with a lot of Jewish families2186.1317 
1485 2186.2995[Yeah.]2186.7538
1486LES_se0_ag3_f_012186.4534[that] were, like,2187.7310
1487 2188.0416they weren't, like,2189.0910
1489 2189.2915reli- super religious Jews. [They were] like, very inti- like, /intimante/ s-2194.0753 
1493 2195.4216A lot of them were inter g- um, inter, um, <ts> racial p- [families.]2199.8078 
1495LES_se0_ag3_f_012200.2088Um, biracial families and, you know, my mom was biracial so2203.9095
1497 2204.0588she identified a lot more with them.2205.9976 
1499 2206.2084And that's, I think that was the reason why she felt more comfortable living on the Lower East Side, because she was2210.7026 
1501 2211.0989a blended child.2212.0365 
1503LES_se0_ag3_f_012212.2584[<cough>] Um,2212.9812
1504LES_int_012213.5352And it was so [mixed.]2214.5932
1507 2214.4725[It] was so mixed and so [diverse. And] even if you didn't have a lot of money,2218.2261 
1511 2219.5542a lot of the- the white families, they were just like us. I mean, like, they d- they didn't have a lot of money [either,]2224.2707 
1513LES_se0_ag3_f_012224.4525you know, growing up here.2225.5810
1514LES_int_012226.1405And- and so the change now then, is just people with- in general, [people with money.]2230.6907
1516 2230.9192Yeah. People with lots of money. Or people that are, like, upper-middle class families2236.2930
1518 2236.6669that really don't need to live on the Lower East Side, but they choose to live on the Lower East Side because of2241.9717 
1520 2242.7069public transportation, the schools are there.2245.0010 
1522 2245.2715They have the local parks, they can walk to the local parks and it look so cute and, you know.2249.8333 
1524 2250.3897[You know.]2250.8149 
1525LES_int_012250.4178[And it's trendy, like the bars and restaurants like you were saying.]2254.5335
1528 2252.3325[so trendy.]2253.7407 
1530 2254.3953[It's] over trendy. [And]2256.1654 
1532LES_se0_ag3_f_012256.4732to the point where, like, my son and I, you know, my- my kids and I, we always joke around.2261.1578
1534 2261.4702Um, because they attended the schools here.2263.4877 
1536 2263.6975And,2264.1311 
1538 2264.5648um,2265.0870 
1540 2265.4974my- my youngest son actually went to one of the newer schools here on the Lower East Side, which2270.4127 
1542 2270.7602I feel all of the /re-gentrified/ families2273.7009 
1544 2273.9713decided they wanted to make this school.2276.2655 
1546 2276.5965[And they] made the school. And they-2278.3435 
1548LES_se0_ag3_f_012278.5775all of their kids went there, cause that's where they wanted their kids to be.2281.5135
1550LES_se0_ag3_f_012281.7466[Cause it's] like a Upper2282.9294
1551 2283.1587West Side school at-2284.4138
1553 2284.5071on the Lower East Side.2285.6291 
1555LES_se0_ag3_f_012285.8344[So] they created a whole new2287.4714
1556 2287.7928acronym for the school. [So it's] create- it's l- it's on- in /rojo/2292.4129
1557LES_int_012289.4100[What is it?]2289.9043
1558LES_se0_ag3_f_012292.9025right off Houston.2294.0434
1560 2294.2364<laugh> [It's called /RD-SCHOOL-2/-2295.8852 
1561LES_int_012294.9759[Oh, no.]2296.1587
1563LES_int_012297.2001[Oh, I've heard of it.]2298.4748
1564LES_se0_ag3_f_012297.7589[on Columbia Street. And]2299.5681
1566 2299.7080[Yes.]2300.2290
1567LES_se0_ag3_f_012299.8012[my youngest] sk- son,2301.1938
1568 2301.2824um, he attended that school for five years of his life. And2304.3087
1570 2304.8356it just was ridiculous. I mean, the families they, you know, the- the principal told the kids don't mix with the kids from the projects.2312.0055 
1572 2312.4065That, [you know, it's] bad, it's- it's not a good place to be. Go straight home after school.2317.3896 
1574LES_se0_ag3_f_012317.7393Um, the kids in the community would actually rob the junior high school kids2322.0135
1576 2322.2747and the high school kids that attended the school2324.7142 
1578 2324.9589because they were /carrin-/2326.5909 
1580 2326.6982carrying themselves in this2328.4918 
1582 2328.8695m- y- we don't belong here, you know. Like, we have this air about us because that's the way the principal told the kids to be.2335.2568 
1584LES_se0_ag3_f_012335.8707[Instead] of blending with the community and trying to2338.7471
1585 2338.9995integrate and s- you know, bring the kids in from the community, she took kids from out of the community2343.7634
1587 2344.3370into the school,2345.3208 
1591 2346.8487and created a whole nother situation.2348.8537 
1593 2349.2128So it's predominantly a white2350.6769 
1595 2351.1385p- [school.]2351.8037 
1597LES_se0_ag3_f_012352.4332And the families that attend there are very upper income families.2355.9148
1599LES_se0_ag3_f_012356.1946[And they're] like, oh2357.0189
1600 2357.2997we- we have a wonderful school here. And they talk with these airs about them.2361.5662
1602 2361.8460And you feel like2362.6456 
1604 2363.1500oh2363.6723 
1606 2363.8075[my God.] (laughing)2365.8256 
1608LES_se0_ag3_f_012366.2089Where did you come from?2367.5176
1610 2367.6248You are not2368.5341 
1612 2368.6227kidding me. You're on Columbia Street. You're standing on the corner [of Columbia] Street.2372.3895 
1614LES_se0_ag3_f_012372.6599Are you kidding me?2373.6811
1616 2373.8956You- [You can't] be serious.2375.5493 
1618 2375.7452[Yeah.]2376.2894
1619LES_se0_ag3_f_012375.8105[You're right] on the corner of Columbia Street and you're talking like you came2379.0279
1620 2379.3263off of Central Park West,2380.7329
1622LES_se0_ag3_f_012381.0779[<laugh>] so.2382.3043
1623LES_int_012382.3183I mean, that- yeah. How does [that-]2383.8477
1624LES_se0_ag3_f_012383.7917[<clears throat>]2384.1574
1625LES_int_012384.1974what do you think about this2385.7132
1627 2385.8336change and the big hotels going up [and some of the-] the- [some of this money] coming in?2390.9134 
1630 2389.3670[Oh, I hate it.]2390.0741 
1632 2390.9134I hate it. Because2392.0715 
1633 2392.3216they're not using the money to make the community better.2395.1800
1635 2395.4225They're using the money2396.4980 
1637 2396.7172to say,2397.4119 
1639 2397.6964we're here2398.6103 
1641 2398.7082and we're here to stay, because we have the money to stay.2401.3598 
1643 2401.7328And2402.1012 
1645 2402.2784instead of hiring the families or the children that live here on the Lower East Side,2406.4147 
1647 2406.7252they're not hiring the children and the families that live here.2409.3592 
1649 2409.6815They're hiring people from out of the community to come and work at these [hotels,]2413.8485 
1651LES_se0_ag3_f_012414.2075[work] at these, you know, places at- that they're opening up.2417.4241
1652 2417.7132And it's disgusting to me.2419.0312
1654LES_se0_ag3_f_012419.5069You know, it- it all started to me, I feel like it started off when they built his Hospice. There's a Hospice here2424.7531
1656 2425.1474for HIV and AIDS [and cancer patients]2427.6116 
1659 2427.5674[Yeah, I've /?/.]2428.7068 
1660LES_se0_ag3_f_012427.9723[here, on-] on Rivington Street. [When] they built the Rivington House2431.2410
1662LES_se0_ag3_f_012431.6467and I said to them, you know, when they-2433.3190
1664 2433.4449when they first developed it,2434.8485 
1666LES_se0_ag3_f_012435.1414[they] had to ask the people in the community,2437.4169
1667 2437.7293you know, what they thought about it. And sign petitions to h-2440.3529
1669 2440.4462to build this thing.2441.3663 
1671LES_se0_ag3_f_012441.7984And we were like, oh it's great. You gonna hire people that live on the- oh, yeah we're gonna hire people from the Lower East Side.2446.6284
1673 2446.9735Maybe2447.4071 
1675 2447.6153five percent.2448.4267 
1677 2448.9443Three percent.2449.5839 
1679LES_se0_ag3_f_012450.2825Are from the Lower East Side l- working in that place.2452.8772
1681 2453.5840So it just, it's the same thing. All these little bars and restaurants that were built.2457.5970 
1683 2457.8659Oh, yeah we're make- we're making a sandwich shop.2460.1740 
1685 2460.2859And then it become a bar and lounge (laughing)2463.0494 
1687 2463.2779the next day.2464.1125 
1689 2464.3503After the ask you to sign this petition to say they want this building2467.5794 
1691 2468.0014or- or this, you know, this establishment.2470.0898 
1693LES_se0_ag3_f_012470.8955Cause the guy across the street, he did a big-2472.8256
1695 2473.4313big thing [to us.] Yeah.2474.8956 
1696LES_int_012473.9442[Did they?]2474.4318
1697LES_se0_ag3_f_012475.7347Two spots on- o- on this block did the same thing. They came here cause we're,2479.8458
1699 2480.1629you know, the biggest building on the [block. So of course] they came this tenants association here2484.1014 
1701LES_se0_ag3_f_012484.3613and said, hey.2485.1255
1703 2485.7474<clap>2485.9200 
1705 2486.1158We're building this sandwich shop, you know, we need a petition signed and, you know. I- Are you gonna serve alcohol? No, we're not serving alcohol.2493.1133 
1707 2493.8632That was a lie.2494.6690 
1709 2495.0020They a-2495.2939 
1711 2495.4011petitioned for a liquor license. Next thing we knew,2497.5864 
1713 2497.7962they weren't a sandwich shop, they were a bar.2499.4329 
1714LES_int_012499.7859Oh [my gosh. That's terrible.]2502.3783
1717 2501.8481[So now we have] three2503.0291 
1718 2503.6512bars2504.7136
1720 2504.8449on the [block.]2505.7100 
1721LES_int_012505.3066[On the block.]2506.1086
1722 2508.3125That's a lot of [bars. <laugh>]2510.1544
1723LES_se0_ag3_f_012509.1099[Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,] yeah, yeah.2510.6207
1724 2510.7606Yeah.2511.0823
1725LES_int_012511.3248Um, I'm curious what, uh,2513.5287
1727 2513.8085if I asked you, like, define geographically what the Lower East Side is for you? Because a lot of people have different, uh,2520.5075 
1729 2521.1183a different2521.7898 
1731 2521.9437definition of what makes up the neighborhood.2524.3118 
1733LES_int_012525.5511[What is it] for you?2526.5365
1736 2528.2760I think2529.1773 
1738 2529.8068what makes up our neighborhood,2531.9259 
1740 2532.8539um,2533.5959 
1742 2534.9272<ts> I think hard-working people make up this [neighborhood.]2537.5223 
1744LES_se0_ag3_f_012538.0707I think2539.0454
1746 2540.4126old Lower East Siders make up this neighborhood. I think2544.0585 
1748 2544.1777that they're slowly but surely leaving2546.3646 
1750 2546.6504or dying off.2547.7633 
1752 2548.2265And2548.8851 
1754 2549.6792it's th- it's on the backs of the dinosaurs that were here2552.8860 
1756 2553.0915[in the-] in the early sixties, seventies, and eighties.2555.9856 
1758LES_se0_ag3_f_012556.4136And that now I think what makes up our neighborhood is a lot of2560.8746
1760 2561.3439upper income families that have came back from the suburbs, or2566.1346 
1762 2566.4435you know, um, moved in from wherever. From out of town and decided they wanted to live on the Lower East Side.2572.3001 
1764 2572.8037Um, maybe from the outer boroughs and decided that, you know, the school systems here are better or they don't have to own a vehicle.2578.9665 
1766 2579.3442It's a, you know, one fare zones. And, um,2582.5841 
1768 2583.4163I think that's what's making up our community now. I think that it's- it's- it's not even a color thing anymore.2588.8440 
1770 2589.1777I- I- I would say before, I thought it was a color thing. Not that I see a lot of black families here,2593.7299 
1772LES_se0_ag3_f_012594.1679cause you really don't see that [many.]2595.5235
1774LES_se0_ag3_f_012596.0071Unless you go to the Ave. [<laugh>]2598.0690
1775LES_int_012597.0669[<laugh> Yeah.]2597.9156
1778 2599.3051you still don't see a lot of black families here. Now it's mostly Dominican and Asian and2605.1186 
1780 2605.5288upper income Caucasian families.2607.9431 
1783 2609.0913Now, is that a community to you? I mean, um, I mean I guess to answer that, like, what- what is a community to you? Like, what does it mean for people who live in a place to be a community together?2620.0571 
1784LES_se0_ag3_f_012620.1262I think people that are willing to fight2622.0668
1786 2622.7756for the better good2624.0050 
1788 2624.1029of the whole,2624.9562 
1790 2625.1942makes up a community to me.2626.5649 
1792 2627.0344If you're willing to stick it out, like, right now this building is about to go through a transformation.2632.4852 
1794 2632.7650Because in two thousand and ten our contract with HUD2635.4873 
1796 2635.8698expires. [And so] we just went through that five years ago, and now we're about to go through it again.2640.7781 
1798 2640.9273[Wow.]2641.5382
1799LES_se0_ag3_f_012641.0765[Where we have] to fight for the right to stay here2643.2945
1800 2643.6395and still be a low income [building.]2646.0614
1802LES_se0_ag3_f_012646.4839And the b- the majority of the families that live here are still low income [families. Like,]2651.0108
1804LES_se0_ag3_f_012651.3737most of them are either on Social Security, Disability, or they're retired people,2655.5751
1806 2655.9609or they're low income working class people who don't make any more than about thirty-five thousand a year.2660.8735 
1808LES_se0_ag3_f_012661.4423You know, um, the ones that make more than that2663.8608
1810 2664.0520<ts> they're paying2664.8493 
1812 2665.0871the top rent, which is- maybe only makes up about five percent of us.2668.5081 
1814LES_se0_ag3_f_012669.0524You know,2669.5852
1816LES_se0_ag3_f_012670.1867that's not very many.2671.2126
1817LES_int_012672.2628So, I mean, is there like a Low- one Lower East Side community? You know, we're talking about [these people coming in.]2678.8006
1818LES_se0_ag3_f_012677.4343[<ts> I don't think so.]2678.3902
1820 2678.6326[I don't-] I don't think there's i- i- there's one anymore, because, like,2682.1129 
1821 2682.4237people that live on this side of Houston Street think differently than the people that live in Greenwich Village.2687.3635
1823LES_se0_ag3_f_012687.6258[And you see] Greenwich Village people are now saying they go all the way over to the West Side.2692.0074
1824 2692.3105You know, [Greenwich Village used-] used to be, like,2694.5470
1826LES_se0_ag3_f_012694.7940what we call Alphabet City is now Greenwich Village or Lower East Side.2698.5711
1828LES_se0_ag3_f_012698.8276[You know, so they've] changed name, they've modified it,]2701.6237
1829LES_int_012700.6305[East Village, yeah.]2702.4068
1830LES_se0_ag3_f_012701.9734[they've made] it into what they wanted it to be. Cause I remember it being Alphabet City.2706.4770
1832LES_se0_ag3_f_012707.4186<laugh> And now it's2708.7237
1834 2709.3066the Lower East Side or, you know,2711.2261 
1836 2711.3380um,2711.8648 
1837LES_int_012711.8648The [East Village.]2712.9692
1838LES_se0_ag3_f_012712.2892[East Village. You know,] and you're like,2714.2990
1840LES_se0_ag3_f_012714.4062East Village? Where'd that [come from?]2716.1765
1841LES_int_012715.7335[To you it's] the Lower East [Side?]2717.0624
1842LES_se0_ag3_f_012716.8340[It's all] Lower East [Side to me.] Anything2719.1747
1844LES_se0_ag3_f_012719.2757u- beyond Fourteenth Street is Lower East Side.2721.9112
1846LES_se0_ag3_f_012722.1387[Anything,] um, you know,2724.2557
1847 2724.8945u- south of Broadway is Lower East Side. I [believe,] you [know.]2728.4367
1850 2728.2362[Okay.]2728.6466 
1851LES_se0_ag3_f_012729.2014So [even-]2729.9793
1852LES_int_012729.5877[So it's a big] area [for you.]2731.0052
1853LES_se0_ag3_f_012730.5062[it's a big] area for me.2731.8678
1854LES_int_012731.8725And you did talk about, you know, the i- this sense- a sense of community with the people with you still know, that you grew up with and stuff. And so it sounds like maybe what you're saying is2740.5508
1856 2740.7474the whole- the neighborhood as a whole2742.7338 
1858 2743.0908doesn't feel like a community, but that the people that you know maybe form like a smaller, you know,2748.2142 
1860 2748.4194community within a [community.]2750.0051 
1862 2750.2192A little [nucleus.]2751.4829
1863LES_int_012750.6268[That you say you still] feel-2752.2246
1864 2752.4388you d- you-2753.1086
1866 2753.2439you did say that, right? That you d- d- you do feel a sense of [community, still.]2756.5382 
1867LES_se0_ag3_f_012755.7339[I do.]2756.4659
1868 2756.5732Because I still go to the- the laundromat and see the2759.7069
1870 2760.3260friends of my mom's from way back when. Or I go to the credit union, which2764.6236 
1872 2764.9448I believe in the credit union because it's one of the older establishments [and banking] establishments here on the Lower East [Side.]2771.4054 
1875 2771.3181[Yeah.]2771.7512 
1876LES_se0_ag3_f_012771.8222So that's one thing I think we all kind of gravitate, the real Lower East Siders, they gravitate to the2777.1496
1878 2777.3921credit union because it's2778.9339 
1880 2779.0831an establishment that we formed2780.9063 
1882 2781.1814as Lower East Siders.2782.3518 
1884LES_se0_ag3_f_012782.7279And, um,2783.6651
1885 2784.4252<ts> people still want their kids to go to the community schools2787.2556
1887 2787.5120because they still believe in them.2788.9466 
1889LES_se0_ag3_f_012789.2683[You know, like,]2789.8326
1891LES_se0_ag3_f_012790.1153I'm one of those people that2791.1895
1892 2791.3060still wanted my kids to go to the community [schools.]2793.8923
1894LES_se0_ag3_f_012794.3027And, um,2795.3244
1896 2795.8088you know. I mean,2796.7227 
1898 2797.1684I guess it's because I- I- I still believe that2799.8124 
1900 2800.1530there's hope for the Lower East Side. I still believe that people just need to understand2804.1527 
1902 2804.6185we, the true Lower East Siders, are the people that have been here for more than ten years of their [life.]2809.8197 
1904LES_se0_ag3_f_012810.7588They understand what it means to be on the Lower East Side.2813.4764
1906LES_se0_ag3_f_012814.0343You know, I still believe in going to the supermarket here, even though it's crazy [expensive.]2818.3055
1910 2819.7028[I still] believe in using local parks because I understand the Parks Department. The library,2824.4154 
1912LES_se0_ag3_f_012824.6252I still believe in the library [system.]2826.8863
1914LES_se0_ag3_f_012827.2131I still believe in going to the community board meetings, when I h- can get a chance to get there.2831.2123
1916 2831.5061And going to the precinct meetings.2833.1567 
1918LES_se0_ag3_f_012833.4085[Trying,] you know, any way to stay connected and refocus.2836.9414
1919 2837.2818Meeting with my local senators [and congress] people and, you know, um, city councilmen.2842.4513
1921LES_se0_ag3_f_012842.7039Knowing them by name because2844.4750
1923 2844.8698this is where I'm from. [And this is] what I want them to understand, that we still have pride in our community.2849.9282 
1925 2850.1427Yeah.2850.4649
1926LES_se0_ag3_f_012850.4649You know,2850.8849
1927 2851.2789u- give or [take.]2852.4959
1928LES_int_012851.8338[Just keeping] up the struggle.2853.4679
1929LES_se0_ag3_f_012853.4938Yeah. Keeping the struggle alive because they need to understand that2856.6604
1931 2856.9163okay, yeah. These2857.7650 
1933 2857.8799crazy people can move up in here, and they go to college here for maybe all of four, five years.2862.2771 
1935 2862.5428And then they [leave.]2863.6883 
1937LES_se0_ag3_f_012864.1080They get the money and they leave. Or2865.7685
1939 2866.0571they purchase something and they decide they wanna stay.2869.0887 
1941LES_se0_ag3_f_012869.3669[And] then that- they think that that becomes a part of ownership.2872.3923
1942 2872.6115And I always say,2873.4725
1944 2873.7057you don't know what it was like to sh- s- t- s- to sweat here.2876.9371 
1946 2877.3474My mother sweat here. [My mother,]2879.2902 
1948LES_se0_ag3_f_012879.4954she bled here basically.2881.3279
1950 2881.5895And she died here on the Lower East Side.2883.8964 
1952LES_se0_ag3_f_012884.1482[So I] mean, you know, you can't tell me what it's like to be on the Lower East Side when you didn't do any of those things. You just moved in.2889.9985
1954LES_se0_ag3_f_012890.6606[One] day, you found an affordable apartment and you just moved in.2893.9767
1956LES_se0_ag3_f_012894.3800[You] know, or you were lucky enough to,2896.3828
1957 2896.5483you know, come from wherever2897.8645
1959 2898.2459and you settled here.2899.5962 
1961LES_se0_ag3_f_012900.1791[So] you can't tell me that. You weren't here fighting the drug wars.2903.2890
1962 2903.5348You weren't here when the prostitutes were running.2905.4780
1964 2906.0132And- and people had to go outside with baseball bats.2908.5269 
1966 2909.1280You weren't here.2909.8541 
1968 2910.1894So <laugh> you know, you can't-2911.8248 
1970 2912.1668you can't say that,2913.1401 
1973LES_int_012914.7645Yeah, it's a tough [question.]2916.0569
1975LES_int_012917.0205Um, I- a m- more positive question. Uh, what are some2920.8200
1977 2921.0991places in the neighborhood that are especially important to you?2924.5021 
1979 2925.0232Like, a place could be, you know, ar- a-2927.2126 
1981 2927.4710your house or a park or a restaurant or- or where are places, like, in your life that2932.2456 
1983 2932.4228really stick out as important in the neighborhood?2934.7883 
1984LES_se0_ag3_f_012935.0464I think, um, the credit union sticks out for me.2938.5567
1986LES_se0_ag3_f_012938.9810I think, um, Tenth Street park which is Tompkins Square Park. [That sticks] out for me.2943.2273
1989 2943.1515[Yeah,] did- [did you play there a lot?]2944.6169 
1990LES_se0_ag3_f_012943.5771[I remember the good, the bad,] and the [ugly of Tenth Street park.]2946.6670
1992LES_se0_ag3_f_012947.1845All the good, all the [bad.] (laughing)2950.7237
1993LES_int_012949.2322[/I-/ <laugh>]2950.1035
1994LES_se0_ag3_f_012951.6757The hippy- <laugh>2953.0815
1996 2953.3939the- the hippy, uh, [f-]2955.2341 
1998LES_se0_ag3_f_012955.4596[fire] f-2956.2243
2000 2956.4652[/Oh, they'd set up the/ tents and they- the riots and stuff?]2959.9763
2001LES_se0_ag3_f_012956.4666[fire days. When they used to do the tents and the riots] in Tenth Street park.2961.4778
2002 2961.8498And, you know, um, my mom taking us there every Sunday after church. I remember2966.3676
2004 2966.7359/Diva Birdy's/, um, on First Avenue, going there as a kid. I remember,2971.6372 
2006 2972.0158um,2972.5745 
2008 2972.7661you know,2973.1629 
2010 2973.6265FDR Park, which is down on the, all the way by the [waterside.]2977.6983 
2011LES_int_012977.5491[Right, right.]2978.2298
2012LES_se0_ag3_f_012978.2392Hanging out in FDR Park on a Sunday, listening to the guys playing the- the bongos and the- the percussion2984.0522
2014 2984.3926instrument. And, um,2985.9164 
2016 2986.4116you know.2986.9852 
2018 2987.9489<clap> Watching the baseball game, watching the boats sail by on- on- I- I mean, I-2992.3552 
2020 2992.5380I don't think-2993.0963 
2022 2993.7851I don't think there- there's such a vivid memory for me2996.7167 
2024 2997.0282in Queens. Although I remember some parts of living in Queens also.3000.3462 
2026LES_se0_ag3_f_013000.5929[But I] think3001.1419
2027 3001.5465all of my-3002.5070
2029 3002.5863my memories of my foundation years3005.0880 
2031 3005.3794were built here on the Lower East Side.3007.4155 
2035 3010.3764I- Just s- seeing the- the local delis and everybody, you know, the mom and pop shops shutting down and3016.1225 
2037LES_se0_ag3_f_013016.4863[people leaving] the community. The doctor's offices that are no longer here anymore and,3020.8134
2038 3021.2238you know,3021.7477
2040 3021.9589all of that.3022.7143 
2042 3023.2412The churches that shut down, the schools that are no longer. I mean,3026.8914 
2044 3027.1727I remember all of these [things.]3028.9012 
2046LES_se0_ag3_f_013029.3845[You know.]3029.9327