LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1LES_int_010.4412Okay, alright, we're recording. So, it is d- uh, December fifth,3.6879
2LES_se0_ag3_m_024.0936[I believe so.]4.5718
3LES_int_014.0936[Two thousand eight,] and I'm /RD-NAME-4/ and I'm talking to /RD-NAME-4/.7.8265
5LES_int_018.4187So, um, <ts>9.5438
7 9.7024/RD-NAME-2/, or /RD-NAME-2/,10.7702 
9 11.0126[Um.] I normally start at the beginning.13.4218 
11LES_int_0113.5850[So, would] you mind telling me when and where you were born?16.8725
13 17.5580Was born, first off on the Lower East Side, in19.4269
15 19.5575/RD-ADDRESS-3/ well,20.9470 
17 21.3854I- I- I e- I ended up moving there, /RD-ADDRESS-6/.24.2469 
19 24.8437Uh.25.2727 
20LES_int_0125.3520[Clinton and what?]26.2656
21LES_se0_ag3_m_0225.3843[I was born.]26.2330
22 26.7832Clinton Street, that's um.28.3033
23LES_int_0128.4385I'm sorry, the intersection.29.3944
24LES_se0_ag3_m_0229.7302The intersection of Clinton and Madison.31.3292
25LES_int_0131.5523<clears throat>31.9068
27 32.4017Okay.32.7187 
28LES_se0_ag3_m_0233.0685And I was born34.1393
30 34.2373uh,34.5637 
32 34.7549January twenty sixth, nineteen fifty-eight.36.7554 
36 39.3796And I grew up p- pretty much right after I was born in Bellevue Hospital.42.4492 
37LES_int_0142.8711Bellevue. [Okay.]43.5799
38LES_se0_ag3_m_0243.2349[On the East] Side.44.0044
40LES_se0_ag3_m_0245.1048I went right into LaGuardia Housing [Projects.]48.5416
42LES_se0_ag3_m_0249.3730Uh, and that's where pretty much, things started there.51.7324
45 53.1488<ts> Will you tell me a little bit about your family. How did they end up living on the Lower East Side? Where are they from?57.5459 
46LES_se0_ag3_m_0257.6671Okay. Let's see.58.5111
48 59.3027<ts> Okay.59.6664 
50 60.0254My father was originally form New York.62.0678 
52 62.2263New Yorker, all the way.63.3174 
54 63.7278My mother also a New Yorker, but her parents were from Georgia, from the South.67.3429 
56LES_se0_ag3_m_0267.8885And they resided, originally, in Harlem.71.0129
59 71.8942Mm-hm.72.2299 
60LES_se0_ag3_m_0272.3325<ts> And73.2278
62 73.5355I guess they thought things would be better on the Lower East Side and decided to move76.8741 
64 77.5736on the Lower East Side around the time79.6949 
66 80.6788uh,81.0612 
68 81.7373shortly before I was born [actually.]83.3789 
70LES_se0_ag3_m_0284.0177And so, that's pretty much how we ended up down here.86.2181
72 86.4233[Um]86.9003 
73LES_int_0186.5086[What about] your father's family? Th- were they not from the South?88.7654
74LES_se0_ag3_m_0288.7375They were- no. They were from New York.90.1596
75 90.6577[They were. Yeah.]91.3851
76LES_int_0190.6577[Oh, they were?]91.1714
77LES_se0_ag3_m_0291.5296They were from [New York.]92.3430
78LES_int_0191.8381[So they've been there for a while.]93.0218
81LES_se0_ag3_m_0293.9543Exactly. G- m- m-94.9289
82 95.0221before that, I couldn't tell [you. <laugh>]96.5286
83LES_int_0196.3794[<laugh> Okay.]97.1628
84LES_se0_ag3_m_0296.9903[But I] know his parents were from New York.98.3751
85LES_int_0198.4871Okay. Cool. Wow. Okay, so they came down-100.9118
87 101.0831Because at the time,102.1463 
89 102.3085the LaGuardia and other places were- [were new, it was really new, right?]106.0869 
90LES_se0_ag3_m_02104.1159[Yeah, it was. Yeah, and I think they] figured maybe it would be a different thing, and also, I guess if you-109.3949
91 109.6132At that time, if you applied for the housing projects and stuff,113.0821
93 113.4727you- pretty much when you-114.8029 
95 115.2533you115.7170 
97 115.8879got the application you were approved, you118.3750 
99 118.4848had to go wherever they kind of put you, I guess.120.4558 
101 120.7609[And at] that time, their /perm-/122.0734 
102LES_int_01120.7609[I see.]121.2984
103LES_se0_ag3_m_02122.1955probably weren't many123.2450
105 123.6478housing124.2241 
107 124.4804developments125.2554 
109 125.5971then anyway.126.4026 
111 126.5185[Cause I lived- I lived in one of the] older ones, [so.]129.0183 
112LES_int_01126.7616[And a lot of them were /down here/.]127.9443
114 128.6643[So] all of them are down here [aren't they?]130.2204 
115LES_se0_ag3_m_02130.0007[Yeah,] exactly. A lot of 'em were on the Lower East Side, and [at that] time, I guess that was the only thing available.133.9291
117LES_se0_ag3_m_02134.8139And that's where we ended up.136.0063
120 137.5567So, what do you remember about being a little kid140.1379 
122LES_int_01140.7909[in the Lower East Side in] LaGuardia? 142.8290
125 145.2662School. I remembered school because146.9859 
127 147.2239you know, at that time, I guess they thought I was a fairly intelligent kid.150.3360 
129LES_se0_ag3_m_02150.7448[Cause] I was in a special program and stuff like that.154.0930
130 154.7825Um.155.3439
132 155.7805<ts>155.9452 
134 156.3785Uh. [My] brothers [and sisters.]158.9538 
137 158.0995[What school did you] go to?159.4420 
138LES_se0_ag3_m_02159.7532Originally, /RD-SCHOOL-2/-161.5457
140 162.2170um, um w- w-163.7974 
142 163.8829What was that? (laughing) What was-165.5006 
144LES_se0_ag3_m_02165.6690[<laugh>] Well, you got me now.167.8772
145 168.3523Um. /RD-SCHOOL-5/.169.5730
147 169.6439[/RD-SCHOOL-7/] that's what it was.171.5737 
151 173.5760Then from there,174.9002 
153 175.4677I was transferred to a school, which at that time, seemed like it was a real far distance from my-179.8965 
155 180.2109from the original181.1140 
157 181.2483you know, it was like across the street, you know, from182.7982 
159 183.1033from my- a- where I [lived.]184.4153 
161LES_se0_ag3_m_02185.1406<ts> And they transferred fo-186.3245
163 186.4587transferred us out of there187.7035 
165 188.1490in to189.0338 
167 189.3267another school. You know, was like especially set up for kids who were like a little more [intelligent than]193.8638 
169LES_se0_ag3_m_02194.0530[the average] kid. Yeah. Gifted kid. That's what they called us then. IGC.197.1342
171 197.2928[Right.]197.7017
172LES_se0_ag3_m_02197.5979[Intellectually] gifted children or whatever.199.3248
173 199.6785So, anyway,200.3094
175 200.4863that was you know, they transferred us there, that was /RD-SCHOOL-4/.203.3150 
177LES_se0_ag3_m_02204.2059[Now,] that school, even though then, it seemed like a far distance, like you know, you're a little kid in your third grade.210.9703
179LES_se0_ag3_m_02211.3120[It's] like, I'm going to another school now?213.0849
180 213.3168And it seemed like it was like, in another country or215.9959
181LES_int_01215.9959Right. (laughing )216.5451
182LES_se0_ag3_m_02216.5756but, it was like right217.6018
184 217.8764down the [block (laughing)] It wasn't really that far. We took a short bus ride.221.0313 
185LES_int_01218.6758[Yeah. (laughing)]219.3105
186 221.0984[<laugh> Totally.]221.9592
187LES_se0_ag3_m_02221.3181[And we got] to get bus passes. That was [cool. You know.]223.6568
188LES_int_01223.2229[That was exciting.]224.3701
189LES_se0_ag3_m_02224.0345[And] we] got to get on the bus together. A few of us from the same226.6767
190 227.0722development went to that school, so.228.8968
192 229.0188That- we went there229.8426 
194 230.5321for elementary school.231.6427 
196 231.8136Uh.232.1858 
198 232.5898Early elementary school. Then, from there, I think I went to junior high school. /RD-SCHOOL-2/ is Junior High School Fifty-six. [That was a-]239.2256 
200LES_se0_ag3_m_02239.5832Also, that was across the street from my [house.]241.5510
201LES_int_01240.8748[That's really close.]241.8447
202LES_se0_ag3_m_02242.1072Yeah. That was really close, that was like you could fall out of bed [and]244.9345
204LES_se0_ag3_m_02245.1256[and be there.]245.6992
205LES_int_01245.9314That must have been nice when [you were getting ready in the morning.]248.1043
206LES_se0_ag3_m_02246.7660[Yeah, that w-]247.4249
208 247.6986[e- when you're late.]248.3934 
209 248.5053Cause I was always late.249.2001
211 250.0149Uh. Then from there,251.5630 
213 251.6749/RD-SCHOOL-5/.253.0038 
215LES_se0_ag3_m_02253.6473Which was254.2302
216 254.3794is like right f-255.3726
218 255.8117right around the corner from257.0521 
220LES_se0_ag3_m_02257.4018[well] now they call it something different I don't know what they call it now. It's not [/RD-SCHOOL-5/ now.]260.9715
221LES_int_01260.7336[It's] not?261.2558
222LES_se0_ag3_m_02261.4470No, it's Grand Street right [there. Right here.]263.6829
223LES_int_01262.7970[Yeah. Essex,] right? [Yeah.]264.4850
225 264.5782It's right here, and it [wasn't- I don't know what it's called now.]267.1448
226LES_int_01265.5128[Yeah, I thought it was /inaudible/.]266.9045
227LES_se0_ag3_m_02267.5365I think it's called something different now.268.7815
228LES_int_01268.7815Oh, okay.269.3177
229LES_se0_ag3_m_02269.5128But, that's where I went for high school.270.7205
231 270.9956No, actually, I started out in /RD-SCHOOL-2/. I started out in /RD-SCHOOL-2/.273.4063 
232LES_int_01273.5602Where's that?274.1990
233LES_se0_ag3_m_02274.8844Man, Ya- Okay. [Yeah. I don't exactly remember. /RD-SCHOOL-6/.]280.0451
234LES_int_01276.3270[Oh. Y- It's okay. I just haven't heard of it.]278.4206
235LES_se0_ag3_m_02280.4508I don't know if they're still around now, I really don't know.282.1669
236LES_int_01282.6671Oh. Yeah. I don't [know.]283.7676
237LES_se0_ag3_m_02283.5018[And what they teach.]284.4483
238Misc283.6621[They went out of print.]284.4735
239LES_se0_ag3_m_02284.7235Yeah, it's not there?285.4889
240LES_int_01285.4889They- he said [they went] out of [print.]287.0836
243 286.8225[<laugh> Yeah.] They- <laugh> They probably did. That's probably what happened.291.4181 
245LES_int_01291.7767/RD-NAME-2/, you're [interrupting.]293.0944
249LES_se0_ag3_m_02295.6715I went there for a short time, and then I realized there's no girls in this school, [so.]299.5870
250LES_int_01299.4564[Was] it all [boys?]300.6827
251LES_se0_ag3_m_02300.1605[Yeah. It was] an all boys [school. I don't even know if they have that now.]303.6859
252LES_int_01301.9582[That's pro- s- That's not so much fun]304.2594
254LES_int_01304.6371when you're [a teen.]305.4998
255LES_se0_ag3_m_02305.0148[So,] I went there for306.8336
256 307.1040like,307.3838
258 307.5003I ha- not even a semester. Six months or so.309.4507 
260LES_se0_ag3_m_02309.8797Realizes, ah, this is not311.0455
261 311.1947cool. [I don't] even know why I went there.312.8440
263 312.9326[Mm-hm.]313.3476
264LES_se0_ag3_m_02313.2217[I] think I went there wi- my brother went there. He had315.1474
265 315.2920graduated from there and [um.]317.2866
266LES_int_01316.8296[Oh. Okay.]317.2866
267LES_se0_ag3_m_02317.7155So, I kind of went there because he was319.5294
269 319.7206the- said it was a cool school, but321.0775 
271 321.2080you know, he left out the part about there's no girls in that school.323.8368 
272LES_int_01323.9953No [fun.]324.5455
273LES_se0_ag3_m_02324.4383[So] I s- I ha- spent six months there, and then I326.5179
274 327.0682got into /RD-SCHOOL-5/, where I stayed and graduated329.9207
276 330.8859<ts> in nineteen seventy-seven, I think it [was.]333.3060 
278LES_se0_ag3_m_02333.9716[Uh. Uh. Oh. I'm dating us again, Kara. <laugh>]336.4616
279LES_int_01333.9716[And did you -]335.0208
281 335.1746[No. Yeah, that's alright.]336.4616 
282LES_se0_ag3_m_02336.7740Uh-oh. I messed up. [<laugh>]338.7837
285LES_int_01339.2873And what did you do after high school?340.4286
286LES_se0_ag3_m_02340.4286After high school, I think I stayed out a semester, and I ended up going to a community college.344.8910
287 345.3188/RD-SCHOOL-10/346.8244
289LES_se0_ag3_m_02347.2213where I majored in accounting originally, and then I got into music, and changed my major to music, and.353.6647
291 354.8910Uh.355.2967 
292LES_int_01355.6268[You studied like, music theory?]357.1469
293LES_se0_ag3_m_02355.7061[Studied music there.]356.7319
294 357.3101Music theory. Um.359.1323
296 361.0828Everything, pretty much, Bach Harmonies, and stuff like that.363.6054 
298 363.7220Um.364.1463 
301 365.6233[History. Music History.]367.0082 
302LES_se0_ag3_m_02365.8378[The whole- yeah, history, jazz,]367.7449
303 367.9827stuff, you had everything in there pretty much.370.0064
304LES_int_01370.0297That's [great.]370.6059
305LES_se0_ag3_m_02370.3173[It's a] mixture of stuff.371.1896
306 371.6886Um.372.1735
308 373.0455<ts> Actually, I didn't graduate from there, but I- I374.9386 
310 375.1391pretty much went375.8339 
312 376.0064you know.376.6338 
314 377.0208I went there for two years and378.1679 
316LES_se0_ag3_m_02378.4290didn't graduate and379.2217
317 379.6507ended up uh380.4620
319 380.8560after all along, I was working in the supermarket as a383.1548 
321 383.5651you know, clerk, and then they [made me] the manager, not a manager, made me assistant manager there.387.3150 
323LES_se0_ag3_m_02387.5435/RD-WORK-1/ Supermarket.388.9004
324LES_int_01387.7022[What supermarket? an-]388.9140
326LES_int_01389.1247[Where's that?]389.5154
327LES_se0_ag3_m_02389.8008/RD-WORK-1/ at that time were big-391.2057
329 391.4998big, uh, uh chain of supermarkets back then.394.1230 
330LES_int_01394.3118Were you working at one in the neighborhood?395.7079
331LES_se0_ag3_m_02395.7435I was working at the one in the village on398.0353
333 398.7114/RD-ADDRESS-2/399.1674 
334LES_int_01399.6333Mm. Mm-hm.400.3314
335LES_se0_ag3_m_02400.3314Yeah /RD-ADDRESS-2/ and like401.2692
336 401.6688around /RD-ADDRESS-3/402.7400
338 403.3513I worked a f- in a few different ones, but I ended up on-405.6935 
340 406.0491on the406.3872 
342 406.9755/RD-ADDRESS-4/407.7921 
344 408.5560uh, store.409.1048 
346LES_se0_ag3_m_02409.6887Uh. Where they made me assistant manager there.411.6138
347 411.8289[And so,]412.3733
349LES_se0_ag3_m_02412.4787you know, it was- it got413.2997
351 413.4226you know, kind of414.0987 
353 414.2567busy there. I- I won't say that's why I-415.7593 
355 416.0315I didn't finish416.6593 
357 417.3990uh, uh417.7195 
359 417.8424graduate from-418.5712 
361 418.6766from college, but419.7522 
365 420.9727you know, i-421.4205 
367 421.8903they were paying me enough money where I could feel- I- you know, I don't [have to go] to school, you know, whatever. Which was a mistake.426.5506 
372 428.6359Did that for a while.429.8330
374 431.2818Um.432.4627 
376 432.7569End up433.3452 
378 433.5559moving into Brooklyn,435.7774 
380 436.2735left the neighborhood for a while, but not too far. [Williamsburg] section of Brooklyn, right over the bridge.440.4003 
382 440.4003Mm-hm.440.8174
383LES_se0_ag3_m_02441.1379In um441.9589
384LES_int_01442.1257I used to live [there actually.]443.3901
386 443.5024[Yeah.] Lived there for like three years, I actually had a roommate who was /RD-NAME-2/446.3912
388LES_se0_ag3_m_02446.9971/RD-NAME-2/, we'd be [roommates there.]448.3756
390 448.4898Mm-hm.448.9156
391LES_se0_ag3_m_02449.4190And we lived there for like three years. I forget the exact three years [we were there.]452.4000
392LES_int_01451.7718[This is like in your] twenties?452.8475
393LES_se0_ag3_m_02453.4756Yeah, we were early twenties, then. Like, we- we kind of moved out456.3875
395 456.5016early457.1250 
397 457.4060twenties.457.9811 
398LES_int_01458.1655You moved out of LaGuardia.459.4025
399LES_se0_ag3_m_02459.5078Yeah, moved out of there.460.5088
401LES_se0_ag3_m_02461.1196And moved into the- a loft we had- we had in, um, Brooklyn.464.7679
403LES_se0_ag3_m_02465.1597[Storefront] loft, which was really nice466.7183
405LES_se0_ag3_m_02467.2715at the time.467.8773
406 468.3910Um.469.1117
408 469.7087Where we had a little rehearsal studio there, and we did all our musical stuff, and had our equipment and pianos and stuff475.8079 
410LES_se0_ag3_m_02476.2689[had a] lot of fun there. His band rehearsed there.478.3521
411 479.4277<ts>479.5243
413 479.9765Then after that,480.7448 
415 480.8309let me see, I'm losing there [/??/.]482.8285 
417LES_se0_ag3_m_02483.0299[I should] know more now, but after that, I think we-485.9011
418 486.7704we decided we didn't want to renew our lease.488.5715
420LES_se0_ag3_m_02489.0413He was gonna get married. Oh. Not married, I don't think he got married, at the time, or he was gonna have a kid. Oh it was a lot of things going on [there.]495.1646
422LES_se0_ag3_m_02495.5114And I was with a woman at the time, and w- decided oh, we- you know, we're just gonna go498.9079
424 499.0747you know, our separate- not separate ways, but w- you know, we're not gonna have this place anymore.502.4431 
426LES_se0_ag3_m_02503.6160And we did that.504.4809
428LES_se0_ag3_m_02505.5038<ts> I moved where ever I moved, which was I think up in, uh,508.5331
430 509.9846<ts> uh510.3534 
432 510.5603around Lincoln Center area.511.7676 
434 512.3027I think he [stay- he s-]513.7295 
435LES_int_01512.9173[Oh, okay. Back] into Manhattan.514.4188
436LES_se0_ag3_m_02514.4188Yeah. Back into Manhattan.515.6470
437 516.2045He stayed here on the Lower East Side518.2284
439 518.4106uh, and519.7145 
441 520.1228got married, and521.9228 
443 522.0589had kids I think.523.0994 
445LES_se0_ag3_m_02523.7404Uh. Or kid.524.5921
447 525.3413At that time.526.1887 
449 526.9174Um.527.6287 
451 527.8482I had a little baby girl also around that [time. I think I was] about twenty-six at the time.532.6643 
452LES_int_01530.5244[Oh, you did?]531.2400
453 533.0225[Wonderful.]533.5636
454LES_se0_ag3_m_02533.3239[When we] had a little girl and-534.6059
455 534.9703and just started, you know.535.9274
457 536.3368This whole family thing. [Still] in Manhattan.538.4973 
459 538.9276Mm-hm.539.3095
460LES_se0_ag3_m_02539.4303You know, for a540.0010
462 540.6947I lived in Manhattan most- I just recently542.7306 
464 542.8799actually moved to the Bronx.543.9380 
465LES_int_01544.4472And did you ever move back to the Lower East Side?546.5392
466LES_se0_ag3_m_02546.5392I did, actually.547.3645
467 547.4611A- For- for a short548.4270
469 548.5060while. My mother was still living here on the Lower East Side.550.8109 
471 550.9207She [lived there-]551.7021 
472LES_int_01551.2412[In LaGuardia?]551.9700
473LES_se0_ag3_m_02551.9700Yeah. She still lived there.553.0928
475LES_se0_ag3_m_02553.6108And she had retired554.6337
477 555.6830<ts> and then she became ill and557.1241 
479 557.2339passed away.557.8397 
481 558.6124And so, we moved back560.9590 
483 561.1171in, in the hopes of we could get that apartment.563.4900 
485LES_se0_ag3_m_02563.8193[You know] we could kind of564.8729
486 565.2198regain that apartment. My bro- my older brother was still living there at the time.568.2699
488LES_se0_ag3_m_02568.9240And he um,570.1138
490 571.7909he was on the lease. You know, if you ha- it's a special574.3389 
492 574.5760thing. You have to [be on the lease, if you. Yeah.]576.2355 
493LES_int_01574.9755[Yeah, you can pass it on right?]576.5648
494LES_se0_ag3_m_02576.5823Yeah, but if you're not on the lease, then you can't.578.9498
496 579.4711So, he was on the lease.581.0779 
498 581.2667And none of us el-582.2326 
500 582.3336none- [no w- I weren't]584.1336 
501LES_int_01582.9131[You weren't on the lease.]584.2214
502LES_se0_ag3_m_02584.3224I wasn't. So.584.9941
504 586.2193What ended up happening, he died.588.1335 
506 589.1988With uh, without me ever getting on the lease.591.2139 
507LES_int_01591.2930[Oh no.]592.0349
508LES_se0_ag3_m_02591.8769[And] so, I had to leave that apartment where I grew up actually, again.595.2003
509 595.3101You [know.]595.6009
512LES_int_01597.0760[That's sad.]597.7214
513LES_se0_ag3_m_02597.7214Yeah, nah, it was so- yeah it was okay. I- I- maybe it was time to get out of the neighborhood anyway at that time.601.8175
514 602.4173Um.602.8915
515LES_int_01602.8915When was this that you were back and604.5598
516LES_se0_ag3_m_02605.0505[I was back in around] two thousand and one, I [think.]608.1665
517LES_int_01605.1460[Were you here for a few years?]606.6518
519 608.0040[Oh,] tha- so it was recently?609.1806 
521 609.9401I think610.5021
523 610.5855I left611.2836 
525 612.5201uh.612.9679 
527 613.2050I was living in Harlem at the time, I ended up moving in Harlem615.7118 
529 616.1640like a block away from where my father grew up.618.1150 
531 618.2774You know.618.5233 
533 618.8657[For a while there.]619.4935 
534LES_int_01618.9316[You've be- you've] lived all over the city.620.6262
535LES_se0_ag3_m_02620.6262Yeah, yeah.621.0477
536 621.3418Manhattan, though. I've always like [Manhattan you know.]622.9251
537LES_int_01622.6046[You like] Manhattan.623.5000
538LES_se0_ag3_m_02623.6670[Not like anything.]624.2838
539LES_int_01623.6670[But, now, recently,]624.7272
540LES_se0_ag3_m_02625.1311Now, I'm [in the Bronx.]626.4438
541LES_int_01625.5351[You've crossed up] into [the Bronx. How do you like it up there?]628.5205
542LES_se0_ag3_m_02627.0278[Yeah, way f-]628.2526
543 629.1437It's just far away.630.1929
545 630.3976You know. [It's just] distant and632.5664 
547LES_se0_ag3_m_02632.8562[you don't have] some of the amenities that you have here [in the city. So] you know.636.5359
550 635.2825[Yeah.]635.7742 
551LES_se0_ag3_m_02637.0879Yeah, I- ha - my home, most of the time. There's nothing you don't639.5521
553 639.8418not a time for tra- unless I'm doing something like this.642.0270 
555LES_se0_ag3_m_02642.6504You know, don't get out and start traveling around, you know.644.9817
556LES_int_01644.9077It takes a long time.645.9366
557LES_se0_ag3_m_02646.1319Very long time. Take me a hour and a half maybe to get here.648.3095
559 649.1612Um.649.6310 
560LES_int_01649.6873Yeah. I have a s- my sister-in-law lives in Washington Heights.653.5568
561LES_se0_ag3_m_02654.1714Okay. Yeah.654.8739
562LES_int_01654.8739I [mean, that's a little closer, but still.] From this neighborhood, it's at least an hour, and on the weekends, with the-660.3946
565 655.6197[I mean, that's clo- yeah, yeah. Yeah.]657.4153 
566LES_int_01660.5088when the A is local.661.6947
568 662.8098Forget [it.]663.4857 
569LES_se0_ag3_m_02663.0820[Yeah. You] never know on the weekends. You don't know- [never know] what the train is gonna be like.666.9443
570LES_int_01664.9424[I know.]665.4385
571 666.9443I know. I know.667.9805
574 669.4911[for that reason,]670.2506 
576LES_se0_ag3_m_02670.5096you know,670.7994
578 671.0189[I stay home most of the time.]671.9101 
579LES_int_01671.0672[Se- L- um.]671.9101
580 672.0692So, I wanna go back to your- your er- kind of earliest memories of676.0205
582LES_int_01676.1478[about] the neighborhood. Um. Wha- ha-678.7864
583 678.8917who were your friends? When you were a little kid?681.0825
584LES_se0_ag3_m_02681.3953[Well, most of the friends.]682.4006
585LES_int_01681.3953[And what did you play?]682.4006
586LES_se0_ag3_m_02682.7914Most of the friends683.5158
588 684.4816lived in the building or in that685.9008 
590 686.5681you know686.9149 
592 687.2091complex or [whatever you] wanna call it.688.5525 
594LES_se0_ag3_m_02689.4745In that project690.2735
596 690.4623development, uh691.5379 
598 691.8693most of the- most of us, you know, you-693.4279 
600 693.7572you play with whoever lived there.695.0276 
604 696.9900[Um.]697.5037 
605LES_int_01697.2117[And who] lived there? Now, /RD-NAME-2/ mentioned he was699.5649
606 699.6659in the minority.700.6142
608 702.2023You [know. /inaudible/]704.0418 
609LES_se0_ag3_m_02702.5491[Well it back- I don't know. Then-] then, it w- there would've- there were not a lots706.6672
610 706.8648of707.0448
612 707.6199there were Jews in the area maybe, but not in that development.710.1218 
614LES_se0_ag3_m_02710.9077<ts> No, there were Jews in that development. There weren't uh-712.6770
616 713.0062they weren't in abundance.714.1186 
618 714.7612And there was a mixture, you know, it was [all kind of-] it was716.7588 
619LES_int_01716.0695[You were-]716.3110
620LES_se0_ag3_m_02716.9564you know.717.3712
622 717.4590Few Chinese, you had- you had little Spanish, you had720.4576 
624 720.6116Italian, you had a little bit of everything back then.722.8635 
628 725.1673I guess black was a majority in there, in the- in- in that development. I- I- I like, I don't even say that730.3686 
630 730.5135then730.7945 
632 730.8911not back way- when- I'm talking about when I was three or four.733.8551 
634LES_se0_ag3_m_02734.3775And stuff. I don't- I don't735.3439
636 735.4405know if that was-736.5512 
638 737.3722there was any majority. It might have [been a balance. Yeah. Yeah.]740.3949 
639LES_int_01738.8363[It was just really mixed.]740.2469
640 740.6188And your friends kind of reflected that.742.2062
641LES_se0_ag3_m_02742.2062Yeah. And everybody kind of, we played- everybody played together.745.4481
642 745.7263[You know, and there was.]746.4809
643LES_int_01745.8838[What did you play?]746.6126
644LES_se0_ag3_m_02747.6399Oh, we played748.4653
646 748.7112tag, that was the- no. No. No. What was that thing we played?751.4177 
648 751.8173Where we'd run around753.1431 
650 753.2836it wasn't [tag.]754.1178 
651LES_int_01754.0573[Were] you playing [tha- y-] you [had um.]755.8058
653LES_se0_ag3_m_02755.4837[Yeah.] Manhunt.756.2739
654 756.3573Right.756.6120
655LES_int_01756.7366[Uh. you had a- uh.] Like a758.2995
658 757.4848[Right.]757.6806 
660LES_se0_ag3_m_02759.9574[Yeah, oh, I mean,]761.0483
664 762.0932we didn't really play in the [playground that much.]764.3514 
665LES_int_01763.5547[Where'd you play? Like] on the street?764.7671
666LES_se0_ag3_m_02764.9396Yeah, we'd just run around the whole development.766.5563
668 766.7276You know, and we'd play- that's the name of the game, manhunt. [Right.]769.2223 
669LES_int_01768.7466[Yeah.] Yeah. [I've heard of that.]769.9776
670LES_se0_ag3_m_02769.5673[I don't even] remember that.770.5232
671LES_int_01770.6444Somebody hides.771.5770
672LES_se0_ag3_m_02771.9221Yeah, and you just. And I forgot exactly how the rules of that game.775.1581
674 776.0393[How did that go?]776.7294 
676 776.9393you just try to find them?778.0532
677LES_se0_ag3_m_02778.2522Yeah, and you just [kind of]779.1848
678LES_int_01778.7668[Is that.]779.1848
679LES_se0_ag3_m_02779.3059I think it was a group of people780.7795
681 781.0686you know, it was a group- you get a782.0385 
683 782.1271couple of groups together, and they just like hunt each other down, and [try to find- chase each other] down.786.2231 
686 785.1074[Oh. Yeah.]785.8395 
687 786.6148Is it [a flag?]787.3935
689 787.9297<ts> [No.] We just tagged you I think, and that made you part of our team or something like [that. How did that go?]792.3744
692 791.5930[Oh.] I think you're right.793.3929 
693LES_se0_ag3_m_02793.3929Yeah, I forget how that went.794.5679
694LES_int_01794.9639I did play it too. [I /inaudible/.]796.6379
695LES_se0_ag3_m_02795.8779[And then, you'd hunt] down to the last guy, and then I forgot what happened. We'd probably do it all over again.799.6035
696 799.7201You know.800.1164
699 800.7926Or p- [/inaudible/]802.0411 
700LES_se0_ag3_m_02801.0385[Kick the can. We played] that. I played that.[Kick the can.]803.5425
701LES_int_01802.9449[What's kick the can?]803.8122
702LES_se0_ag3_m_02803.7430[Kick] the can, you just got in the middle of the street,805.7108
703 806.1304and you get a group of people on one side, and another group of people on the other side, and then put the can in the middle.811.1627
705 812.2957It's a silly game if you think about it. <laugh> You [kick the can]817.5870 
706LES_int_01816.6648[And then what- and] then what happens?818.4216
707LES_se0_ag3_m_02818.7723[Wait. Wait. Wait. I forget] exactly.820.4274
708LES_int_01818.7723[Everyone runs at it?]819.6773
709Misc820.1805[It's like] that capture the flag thing.821.8922
710LES_se0_ag3_m_02821.9850Yeah. You kick [the can, and then somebody had to chase it. What was the thing? I think you forget that.]825.6596
711Misc822.2522[The can. /inaudible/]825.1857
712LES_se0_ag3_m_02826.1710I know we played it and that was a big game [back then.]828.4989
715 828.3319[Had] two groups on one side, [a can in the middle.]830.6017 
716LES_se0_ag3_m_02829.5480[It was a group on one side and.]830.6149
717 830.7071Yeah. And a can in the middle and it would run- who could kick the can first.833.4718
719 833.8933Then you [kicked the c]834.8663 
721LES_int_01834.1827[Everyone ran] at the can [at the same time?]836.7296
722LES_se0_ag3_m_02835.7004[Yeah.] And somebody would have to kick i- I forget how exactly that went man. It was a silly [game.]840.0281
723Misc839.7998[It's illegal in /inaudible/]841.2753
726 842.7463I just don't really [get]843.6111
728 843.9010[I don't get the poi- No- I don't either.]845.9776
729LES_int_01844.0129[the point.]844.5814
732LES_se0_ag3_m_02846.1795[You know,] when you're a kid, [it is no point to a lot of games. You know, you just] do stuff, you know?850.0367
733LES_int_01847.5943[<laugh> Yeah.]849.3724
734LES_se0_ag3_m_02850.4166There's no point to it really.851.5970
735LES_int_01851.6761Now, [/inaudible/]852.3648
736LES_se0_ag3_m_02851.9565[Checkers.] Slu- uh. We played skellzies though.853.7345
737LES_int_01853.8882Oh yes. [Go- with the marbles?]855.8287
738LES_se0_ag3_m_02854.7092[We plays skellzies.]855.8287
739 856.1975No, no, [no,] no. These were like857.9580
741LES_se0_ag3_m_02859.2986let's say860.0801
742LES_int_01860.0801Oh, no. That's [pocket.]861.1320
744 861.6595you know, let's say you get bottle tops.863.1697
745LES_int_01863.8327Oh. [Skellzies.]865.0663
746LES_se0_ag3_m_02864.8556[Yeah.] And you fill it with clay.866.0849
747LES_int_01866.1771Or [wax or something?]867.7751
748LES_se0_ag3_m_02866.3527[You know, y- y- you] k- you know, I- you modify your top though. You know, you- so you have, you know871.3190
749 871.6790your top floats across the ground really good.873.8835
750LES_int_01872.1974[You make it like]872.9657
751 873.8835aerodynamic. [<laugh>]875.2971
752LES_se0_ag3_m_02874.5903[Yeah. Exactly.] Exactly. You slide it on the floor, and you scrape it878.1382
753 878.3665til it's smooth so it goes across the floor really quick.880.9589
755LES_se0_ag3_m_02881.6965And it's accurate, and you- you know, it [helps] the accuracy on it.884.3789
757LES_se0_ag3_m_02884.5817You know. Or if you were really good,886.4336
759 886.6224and your father used the shaving cream, right.888.8713 
761LES_se0_ag3_m_02889.1565[There] was a special top that they used to have on the shaving cream. If you had one of those tops, then-892.7609
762 892.9189and you pulled one of those out, we knew we would be in trouble because895.6535
764 896.0162those tops just were made897.3641 
766 897.4958[for skellzies. You know.] Yeah. Exactly.]899.1421 
767LES_int_01897.4958[They were perfect.]898.4623
768 899.2782And the point [was to]900.5075
769LES_se0_ag3_m_02899.7831[And you put some]900.4855
770LES_int_01900.9710[slide it.]901.5901
771LES_se0_ag3_m_02901.0501[you know, you-] you'd have to go from box to box. This game I remember now.904.1832
773LES_se0_ag3_m_02904.5827You'd have to go, you'd start in box one,906.3476
775 906.6944box two was like diagonally across this thing that we'd draw [out of chalk.]910.7840 
776LES_int_01910.1474[And how far] away? Like feet away? Or.912.3996
779 914.4894not ten feet. But about seven feet.916.8172 
780LES_int_01917.1158[So it was like a big]918.1914
781LES_se0_ag3_m_02917.2299[The next box]918.1651
782 918.4943Yeah. You had- you had to [draw this] thing on the ground. You know, this whole thing.921.8211
784 921.8913Okay.922.3216
785LES_se0_ag3_m_02922.4094And, so you drew it out on the ground, and you ha- you know, we didn't actually measure it, but. [<laugh>] But.927.3151
786LES_int_01926.4282[Yeah, yeah, yeah.]927.1131
787LES_se0_ag3_m_02927.9034And then you'd sh- you'd shoot your checker from box one to box two, and then you went to three,932.3902
789 932.7063then you went to four, and you went all the way to thirteen.935.0244 
791 935.3536And if you got through all that, and you were the last guy standing, you were the winner. [You know, that kind of thing.]940.4277 
792LES_int_01939.3214[You were the winner. And] could you um, <ts>941.3585
793 941.6438like,941.8917
795 942.1902push another guy's943.6171 
796LES_se0_ag3_m_02943.6171Yeah. You could [knock] hi- you could knock him out of the box. If he's near the box, you could knock him out of the box948.3834
798LES_se0_ag3_m_02948.7610and what would happen is950.1527
800 950.5698if, um.951.4549 
802 952.4647I- what was [another rule there?]953.8828 
803Misc953.0289[You had to start from a certain.]954.3109
804LES_se0_ag3_m_02954.0672[Yeah.] Yeah. You'd have to go out. You'd have to really go- I wanna think- it was like- I forget.958.2505
805LES_int_01957.3094[You were penalized somehow.]958.9384
806LES_se0_ag3_m_02958.3866[Yeah. Sort of] like that. [And you had to] start like not even960.9988
808LES_se0_ag3_m_02961.3369on the block. You would had to like two blocks away, you had to shoot your checker. (laughing)964.9753
810LES_se0_ag3_m_02965.1750[Until] you got (laughing) with the rest of the guys.967.7697
811LES_int_01965.8685[Oh. (laughing )]966.8212
812LES_se0_ag3_m_02968.0024It wasn't really all that, but.969.2141
813LES_int_01969.3637That's [funny.]970.2637
814LES_se0_ag3_m_02969.6004[It was something] like that.970.7243
815 970.8165And that was a game I remember we did a lot of.972.9957
818LES_int_01974.4547[Were] your, uh, were your parents strict? Or uh, [easy going? like were you] able to kind of go out and explore as a kid?982.0123
819LES_se0_ag3_m_02978.2454[Yeah. And]979.2727
820 982.5259Yeah, well you- you d- un- in- as long as you were back by six o'clock. Before the986.2220
822 986.3756before it got dark. [<laugh>]987.8859 
824 988.1592[Okay.]988.5411
825LES_se0_ag3_m_02988.1855[You could explore] whatever you want.989.3972
826 989.6938But, if you weren't back by six o'clock, then you'd there would be a problem with your next day's993.5880
828 993.8382explorations, [you know what I'm saying (laughing). <laugh>]996.5251 
829LES_int_01994.6856[I believe it, I see.]996.2649
831LES_int_01996.7578[So, you'd get in trouble if] you didn't get [back by five.] But999.3480
832LES_se0_ag3_m_02998.1846[Yeah. Exactly.]999.1153
833LES_int_01999.5456[But they knew you were-]1000.5460
834LES_se0_ag3_m_02999.6553[Pretty much.]1000.4680
835LES_int_011000.6733you're mom wasn't1001.8982
837 1002.0694keeping tabs on you during the [day? You got to-]1004.2587 
838LES_se0_ag3_m_021003.4699[No. Pretty much] you kind of did what you d- I was responsible. So, you [know,] I- you know, I guess other kids who1009.0045
840LES_se0_ag3_m_021009.1011you know, did crazy things, you know, people you know, had to be monitored a little bit more.1012.1787
842LES_se0_ag3_m_021012.8943But, I was pretty responsible, so.1014.5193
843LES_int_011014.9171And were [you-]1015.6089
844LES_se0_ag3_m_021015.3916[I didn't think.]1015.8394
845LES_int_011015.9470were you staying kind of close to home when you went out and about? [or did you.]1019.7698
846LES_se0_ag3_m_021019.3220[Yeah. Pretty] much stayed in the neighborhood.1021.0825
847 1021.3064You know, younger, stayed in the neighborhood, and then1023.1792
849 1024.3646you know, girls got involved, and you would go visit girls,1026.7694 
851LES_se0_ag3_m_021027.1645[that was-] you'd go in other neighborhoods and1028.8021
852 1029.1975[you know.]1029.6893
853LES_int_011029.1975[Where ever the girls were.]1030.3477
854LES_se0_ag3_m_021029.8166[You would have to] see l-1030.7473
855 1030.9010it's only like project developments, you'd go from like the LaGuardia1034.2733
857 1034.5498[houses]1035.0728 
859LES_se0_ag3_m_021035.4855to the1036.0643
861 1036.3804uh1036.6850 
863 1036.8694what was that uh1037.7562 
865 1038.5201what's the thing behind1039.2681 
866Misc1039.4130/RD-NAME-1/ and them.1039.9530
867LES_se0_ag3_m_021039.9530No. No. Yeah. Well, they were in a whole nother thing, but what's the- Vladecks Houses1043.7544
868LES_int_011043.7544Vladecks. [Yeah.]1044.3934
869LES_se0_ag3_m_021044.2622[You] know. And i- and it was territorial back then a little bit.1046.9761
870 1047.0511You know.1047.4402
872 1047.7044And everybody knew you were from LaGuardia, you're not from, you know, you're not from the Vladeck, so.1051.6232 
874 1051.8811[It was some little territorial thing.]1053.6131 
875LES_int_011051.8811[Were- was one better than the] other?1054.1568
876LES_se0_ag3_m_021054.1568No. It was all the same thing.1055.2209
877 1055.5678Pretty much all the same thing. But you had different groups of people,1058.1225
880 1058.9663recognized that we're Vladecks, and you're the1061.2362
882 1061.3346thing and you know, as you walked into their project development, you know, people would take notice, you know.1065.6707 
883LES_int_011065.7193This kind of sounds like [a little gang-like.]1067.7584
884LES_se0_ag3_m_021066.7318[Yeah tha- and.]1067.7349
885 1067.9365Sort of. A little bit. A little bit. They got into that later on. You know, I don't remember exactly when that started, but1073.2991
887 1073.6319it got into a little thing like that. I'm from The Hill, you know, you're from1076.7310 
889 1077.1294the, you know whatever project. And we're talking about we're not even a mile away, but there was these territorial things going on back then.1083.3328 
891LES_se0_ag3_m_021084.3735Uh. Which made it more interesting when you went into all the neighborhoods, you know.1087.0334
893 1087.1178When you we- so.1088.0145 
895LES_se0_ag3_m_021088.6741[That- you know.]1089.1706
896LES_int_011088.7772[Did it ever] escalate into.1090.5239
897LES_se0_ag3_m_021091.0630I mean.1091.4005
899 1091.5177With some people. I mean, not with me. I never really got into that, [but.]1094.5089 
900LES_int_011094.3074[You-] you were not a [type to get into fights?]1096.7098
901LES_se0_ag3_m_021095.1412[I know- I remember there were like] people who would go. My brother told me stories of him1098.8625
902 1099.1250going to visit girls in the Smith projects and got into the fights with the guys from the Smith, because1103.1827
904 1103.4358you were going to see one of the girls from the Smith, and you're from LaGuardia. Yeah, I've heard stories that1107.1478 
906 1107.5228I've- that never happened to me, but1109.0931 
907LES_int_011109.5056You- [So, you] were not a fighter?1111.0104
908LES_se0_ag3_m_021109.6322[with him.]1110.0260
910 1111.0104No, no, [no]1111.7691 
911LES_int_011111.4355[Is he] telling the truth?1112.2559
912LES_se0_ag3_m_021112.2559No, well1112.7434
913 1112.8981no, I liked- I- I could fight.1114.8053
914LES_int_011114.8387I think you were a fighter Gary.1116.1231
915LES_se0_ag3_m_021115.6309[I could fight.]1116.3997
916Misc1116.4700I think- [I think that uh.]1117.9360
917LES_se0_ag3_m_021116.9334[But, I didn't fight. You know. I could- I boxed and stuff.]1119.8595
918LES_int_011117.9360[Or it's ju-]1118.5858
919Misc1118.4014[I think- I-]1119.2312
920 1119.5561[I think that /RD-NAME-2/'s talking1121.0613
921LES_int_011119.9292[/Oh yeah/.]1120.3507
922LES_se0_ag3_m_021120.4078[Did some-]1120.8600
923Misc1121.2066that there was definitely like, [just /inaudible/] there- there- there was a1125.1084
924LES_se0_ag3_m_021122.2052[we did- you know, I studied karate for a while.]1123.8910
925Misc1125.2350definite change in the neighborhood1126.8100
927 1127.1991from seventy1128.5291 
929 1129.3026three or four on.1131.1026 
931 1131.6745As opposed to, one of the examples was1134.3025 
933 1134.5134the ethnicity, when we were1136.3380 
935 1136.7974five, six, seven, eight and ten, it was1139.0147 
937 1139.2115Italian,1139.9639 
939 1140.1561German, Irish, uh- whites,1141.9889 
941 1142.2795uh- p- Spanish, Chinese and stuff.1143.9952 
943 1144.2436Then, the- it sort of changed as some of those people either died, the elderly,1148.2691 
945 1148.6206or they moved out of the [neighborhood, or]1150.6504 
947Misc1151.0348they left their parents1152.2472
949 1152.6785they moved out1153.4144 
951 1153.6300then the parents died.1154.7035 
953 1154.9144At one point, just to reiterate, I- I was like the only Jewish family in there.1158.8766 
954LES_int_011159.5639<ts> Yeah. I remember [you had said that.]1160.8469
957 1160.7553[You] know, but that was more like the.1162.5196 
958LES_int_011162.5196That was later on.1163.1945
959Misc1163.1945That was when I was sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.1165.4650
961Misc1165.7697Which, so, there was that ten year period from six to sixteen1169.0398
963 1169.3305that i- it started to becoming less diverse.1171.8711 
965 1172.4524and [getting] wilder.1173.7180 
967Misc1174.2402This was petty1175.2631
969 1175.5485if I'm in the Smith,1176.6022 
971 1176.7953they'd throw an egg at me, say, get the fuck out of here, or something like that.1179.6929 
973 1179.9651But, at seventy-five,1181.5154 
975 1181.7174you might get knifed or stabbed when the javelins and the- and the lords and all of [them, and so.]1187.0865 
976LES_se0_ag3_m_021186.6334[Right, right. Little gangster.]1187.8846
977Misc1187.2972[It was a change.]1188.2665
978 1188.4290You have to definitely-1189.3882
980 1189.5639there is a period1190.4726 
982 1190.7492how violent that would have [gotten.]1192.6810 
984LES_se0_ag3_m_021192.6810[Yeah, yeah.]1193.2210
985Misc1193.2210You [know.]1193.6517
986LES_int_011193.5069[Did you] experience that?1194.4464
987LES_se0_ag3_m_021194.8683Well, I mean I saw it, but I never got involved with that. Never-1197.2874
989LES_se0_ag3_m_021197.5078never involved myself with gangs and1199.3781
991 1199.7203things like that.1200.4152 
994 1201.1978But you saw that- the [change that /RD-NAME-2/ was talking about?]1203.5698 
995LES_se0_ag3_m_021202.0322[Yeah. I saw. Definitely. Definitely.]1203.5698
996 1203.8229Definitely, you could see that.1204.8782
997LES_int_011205.0235And this was in [the-]1206.4016
998LES_se0_ag3_m_021206.1485[S- this] might have been junior high school time, so we were1208.7946
999Misc1209.6388It's actually Seventy-two.1210.7098
1000LES_se0_ag3_m_021210.7357Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.1211.3714
1002 1211.4792[We were in junior high school. Yeah.]1212.7027 
1003LES_int_011211.4792[The Seventies, there was change. Yeah.]1213.8605
1004LES_se0_ag3_m_021213.1340[Yeah. Exactly.]1213.8605
1005LES_int_011214.3370And- and then how did it1215.5980
1007 1215.7480sort of effect you, in d- or- or I guess1218.5981 
1009 1218.8043as you got older?1219.7325 
1011 1220.3887You weren't playing skellzies anymore. What were you [what were you doing /inaudible/?]1223.4854 
1012LES_se0_ag3_m_021222.1307[Well, yeah. We didn't do that.]1223.2651
1013 1223.4948I was then, you know, ki- school. Kind of concentrating on school a little bit. Finding our little part time jobs.1228.7302
1015LES_se0_ag3_m_021229.0537[To] get little things that we wanted.1230.3896
1016 1230.7664[And.]1231.6796
1018LES_se0_ag3_m_021231.8552Girls, you know, obviously.1233.3304
1019LES_int_011233.6323Girls [are very important.]1234.5806
1022 1234.3084[Mm-hm.] Yeah, yeah. That's1235.3577 
1023 1235.4323okay, if you can't [you know, leave out that ingredient. Yeah, exactly. You had to go to Vladecks], or wherever they were, that's where you had to go.1240.5838
1024LES_int_011236.0190[Had to go over to Smith to find them. <laugh>]1238.6312
1025LES_se0_ag3_m_021240.8604We didn't have any in our neighborhood, you know, we already used those up [already.]1243.5752
1027LES_se0_ag3_m_021243.9918[So, we had] to go to other ones.1245.1464
1031 1246.5601that, basically, and1247.9794 
1033 1248.1055k-1248.2064 
1035 1248.2986and then, I think we moved out in around Seventy1250.7045 
1037 1250.8626eight, somewhere, Seventy-nine, I think we left there.1253.5335 
1039 1254.2272Somewhere.1254.7924 
1040LES_int_011255.1304W- when you guys moved to Williamsburg?1256.6100
1041LES_se0_ag3_m_021256.6100Yeah. [Exactly.]1257.6373
1043 1257.6373Okay.1257.9033
1044LES_se0_ag3_m_021257.8945And then, I actually, d- we didn't come- I didn't come back for1260.0871
1045 1260.3417a long time after that.1261.4403
1048LES_int_011262.6959When you did come back,1263.8637
1050 1264.0218w- uh,1264.7550 
1052 1264.9964what did you noticed had changed?1266.4946 
1053LES_se0_ag3_m_021266.4946Oh, it was totally different then.1267.6493
1055LES_se0_ag3_m_021268.2024Yeah, it was totally1269.4010
1056LES_int_011269.6468I mean, [it.]1270.0332
1057LES_se0_ag3_m_021269.9058[totally different. Like,]1271.4644
1058LES_int_011270.7448[Can you talk about that a little bit?]1272.0746
1059LES_se0_ag3_m_021271.7937[I mean.]1272.0746
1060 1272.1976I did- First off, I didn't know anybody who lived in the building.1274.5655
1062 1275.1890Didn't know anybody. Exce- there was still few holders1277.9153 
1064 1278.1392you know, hangers on that-1279.4377 
1066 1279.7055that still were there from when I grew up.1281.8638 
1067LES_int_011281.8638There were?1282.1492
1068LES_se0_ag3_m_021282.1492That were still- the few people still there, lived in the neighborhood.1284.5111
1070LES_se0_ag3_m_021284.9633But, basically,1286.1443
1071 1287.4273<ts>1287.5283
1073 1287.7873The.1288.1517 
1075 1288.9551There were a lot more Chinese people that stay in there because1291.6157 
1077 1291.8396I think they, you know, there was an expansion of Chinatown, I felt, [you know,] at that time.1295.3688 
1079LES_se0_ag3_m_021295.7420Cause ex-1296.0756
1081 1296.2381Chinatown was like- it was like a1297.5859 
1083 1297.8229borderline [there.]1298.6746 
1084LES_int_011298.3962[Getting bigger.]1299.0065
1085LES_se0_ag3_m_021298.8371[Nobody] came past the bridge there, you know, it looked seemed.1301.4438
1086 1301.8609But, then there was this whole expansion thing of Chinatown, so where a lot Chinese people in the building.1306.2901
1088LES_se0_ag3_m_021306.8345There were a lot of, you know, it was more Hispanic and Black,1309.7041
1089 1309.9982basically dominated that- that building.1312.2153
1091LES_se0_ag3_m_021312.6675And then, I didn't know anybody.1313.8924
1092 1314.4236You know, I didn't- I didn't know anybody, except some of the holders on that were still there.1318.4917
1094LES_se0_ag3_m_021319.0976So, I didn't really, you know,1320.7747
1096 1320.8844you know, you kind of kept to yourself then, it wasn't that same1323.5372 
1098 1323.7655camaraderie that you had back1325.2890 
1100 1326.2724you [know, when we were]1327.6186 
1101LES_int_011326.6790[Right, right.]1327.5822
1102LES_se0_ag3_m_021327.7151when I first, you know, when I grew up there.1329.3642
1104LES_se0_ag3_m_021329.8647Not that same thing, everybody kind of kept to themselves. It's [more closed], you know,1333.2238
1106LES_se0_ag3_m_021333.3424mind your business. You know, that kind of of thing, it was1335.5918
1108 1335.8904more like that.1336.5884 
1111 1337.6212Now, this is, you're talking about- this is1339.0038 
1113 1339.1048[when in- Two Thousand One?]1340.1237 
1114LES_se0_ag3_m_021339.2324[When I came back. Yes.] Two Thousand and One.1340.8700
1117LES_int_011341.7001um. Did you notice, I mean, b- by Two Thousand One, the larger neighborhood, you have this1346.7380
1119 1347.0087a lot of gentrification happening with1349.0933 
1121 1349.3487you know, wealthier, white1350.7448 
1123 1350.9380[folks coming in, /inaudible/]1352.6008 
1124LES_se0_ag3_m_021351.2629[Well, that also began to happen] not at- i- you know, you could see that1354.7257
1125 1355.1471like, some of like,1356.0120
1127 1356.3852the-1356.6706 
1129 1356.8813the village1357.6293 
1131 1357.7127and- an-1358.2395 
1133 1358.3652and- and the yuppie crowd, or whatever you want to [call]1360.7447 
1134LES_int_011360.5121[Yeah,] yeah.1361.2277
1135LES_se0_ag3_m_021361.5585what's- was coming down to that area too as well, you know, [which] brought up the rent1364.5791
1137LES_se0_ag3_m_021365.0796You know, prices of rents and stuff [like that.]1367.3230
1139LES_se0_ag3_m_021367.7489So, and that kind of got pe- push other people out of the neighborhood.1370.8539
1141 1371.1173Like I say, the holders on were still there, you know, [that kind] of a thing.1374.1087 
1143 1374.4111And it maybe it doesn't affect, um,1376.2023
1145 1376.3164public housing in the same way,1377.9057 
1146LES_se0_ag3_m_021378.5390No, but [I think] even some- even some of the public housing, they were1382.7830
1148LES_se0_ag3_m_021382.8928sold off, even1384.0738
1150 1384.6225[too.] Yeah. Some of that was going on. I think that's still happening now [as a] matter of fact.1389.1357 
1153 1388.3060[Yeah.]1388.6308 
1154LES_se0_ag3_m_021389.5528So they1389.9304
1156 1390.1104you know, they- they're s- kind of I think what's happening is they're- they're1392.7939 
1158 1393.1803looking f- they nee-1393.9919 
1160 1394.1280you know,1394.5582 
1162 1395.4539real estate is- is- is- is1397.3900 
1164 1397.4997you know, is- is1398.5578 
1166 1399.5840at an all time high [now. They're looking] yeah. So, they kind of1402.8553 
1167LES_int_011400.6543[/We/ know.]1401.3385
1168LES_se0_ag3_m_021403.3426you know, le- places to live now, you know, and so, now, if y- I think1406.5870
1170 1406.8460pretty soon, if you don't have any money, you won't be living on the Lower East Side anymore.1410.6392 
1172LES_se0_ag3_m_021411.0563You know, pretty much, they're gonna filter all the1412.7027
1173 1412.8914you know, those1413.6949
1174Misc1414.0022I'm renting my bathroom to ['em /inaudible/]1416.3057
1175LES_se0_ag3_m_021415.2545[<laugh> Exactly. (laughing) <laugh>]1421.5220
1178 1418.4274[Oh you got no /salary or something/.]1419.8586
1180 1419.8668[<laugh>]1420.7976
1182 1421.0961[I think we got] that.1421.9872 
1185LES_se0_ag3_m_021423.4778But, you could see, that's what's happening, you know.1425.1593
1187LES_se0_ag3_m_021425.9188And- I- you- you're gonna [have to be]1427.4335
1188LES_int_011426.9549[So, you could] see that, when you came back, that kind of larger.1429.4574
1189LES_se0_ag3_m_021429.4574Yeah, you could see that pretty soon,1431.7838
1190 1431.9813[you have to be of a certain income1433.6321
1191LES_int_011431.9813[In /inaudible/]1432.6926
1192LES_se0_ag3_m_021434.1062to live down here.1434.8175
1194 1435.0545[I think] that's happening.1435.9985 
1196LES_se0_ag3_m_021436.6614Slowly, but1437.3155
1198LES_se0_ag3_m_021437.9375surely, that's happening.1438.8726
1202 1440.6755Except for those people that hang on, they ain't getting out of here, [I ain't leaving.] Um, I'm gonna be here, you know, and there's a few of those people that I still see1446.6172 
1206LES_se0_ag3_m_021447.7081right now.1448.2745
1207 1448.7706that I'm say, oh man, it's good to see you, I haven't seen you, you know, you're still here, you know, still living down here.1452.3942
1208LES_int_011452.5040And- but you don't have any family that's still down here?1455.4247
1210LES_int_011455.5420[You said] your brother passed away.1457.0984
1211LES_se0_ag3_m_021457.6515I have a nephew that lives like1459.0608
1213 1460.0892Delancey Street.1461.0727 
1214LES_int_011461.0727Hm. Mm-hm.1461.6961
1217 1464.2446That's about it.1464.7583 
1221 1466.3481That's [about it.]1466.9715 
1222LES_int_011466.5061[That's interesting.]1467.1691
1224LES_int_011467.6608So, now you've lived all over1469.4388
1226 1469.7798New York City.1470.5656 
1228 1471.0222I'm wondering if you would still consider yourself a Lower East Sider? [If that's sort of a]1475.1886 
1229LES_se0_ag3_m_021474.6881[Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. I w- I mean w- I] just did that show, we just did that show and it was called the1479.7353
1230LES_int_011475.4784[that's a important part of you.]1477.1318
1231LES_se0_ag3_m_021480.1962Lower East Side1481.3580
1233 1481.9068Band Reunion.1482.6619 
1235LES_se0_ag3_m_021483.9527Cause back then, uh, also that's what we did. That's what I left out.1486.4716
1237LES_se0_ag3_m_021486.9677Left out that little part.1487.8660
1239LES_se0_ag3_m_021488.3330[Where you said,] what do we do? you know, [what we-] we got into music then, how did I- could I leave that out?1492.8056
1240LES_int_011488.4428[You re- /inaudible/]1488.9608
1242 1490.1479[Music.]1490.5869 
1244LES_int_011492.8978[That's what you were-] that was important, [right?]1494.5398
1245LES_se0_ag3_m_021494.2939[Yeah.] That's a very important part.1495.7553
1246 1495.9661And, that's what we did in the early seventies as well, you know, we formed bands and stuff, and you would see different bands in the neighborhood.1501.6926
1248 1502.1624You know.1502.3468 
1250 1502.8604Lot of mus-1503.6024 
1252 1503.7077culture and stuff, as far as musically.1505.2761 
1254 1505.4957[You know.]1505.7679 
1256 1506.2288And what did you [do personally?]1507.4054
1257LES_se0_ag3_m_021506.6108[Which you don't see now] either.1507.9718
1258 1508.6435Um.1509.2581
1260 1509.4996Say that again. What's that [question?]1510.4702 
1261LES_int_011510.1892[Oh,] I was gonna ask what personally di- uh, were1512.7520
1262 1513.1033you- instruments or singing [did you do?]1514.9823
1263LES_se0_ag3_m_021514.3413[Oh, I played uh,] saxophone and I sang, I played- dabbled with the piano a little bit then.1519.0285
1267 1520.7802Form- we formed a band.1522.0885 
1269 1522.2817You know.1522.6532 
1271LES_se0_ag3_m_021523.1888I don't remember, we had a f-1523.8034
1272 1523.9088few different names for the band back then, and um.1526.4025
1274LES_se0_ag3_m_021526.8547So, we did that.1527.4605
1275Misc1527.7415Bobby's on my CD by the way. I think I gave you [/inaudible/]1531.4957
1276LES_int_011529.9240[You gave me. Yeah. Yeah. I listened to it. Yeah. Yeah.]1531.9260
1277LES_se0_ag3_m_021530.8284[Yeah, yeah.]1531.1752
1278Misc1531.6582[I think] he's on it.1532.3430
1281 1533.4582So, we did that.1534.6644 
1283 1534.8137That occupied a lot of our time, we did shows and1537.1756 
1285 1537.3117we played together in bands for- me and /RD-NAME-2/ for a while.1539.3077 
1288LES_int_011539.9838[And] this you were doing1541.1472
1289 1541.4398in your- sort of in your free time, cause you're still working1543.9072
1290LES_se0_ag3_m_021543.9335Yeah, we're working part time, I was going to school, at the same time, playing in these bands, wherever it, you know.1548.1460
1292LES_se0_ag3_m_021548.5982And we played wherever, you know, we'd just1549.8713
1293 1550.2226pull our equipment out and start playing in the street, you know, we didn't care.1552.3414
1295LES_se0_ag3_m_021552.7585Yeah, we just, you know.1553.5180
1296LES_int_011553.6848And, have you continued to that throughout your [life? S-]1556.2180
1297LES_se0_ag3_m_021555.7570[Yeah, I'm kind of] doing that now still.1557.0653
1298LES_int_011557.1400Still [doing it.]1557.7914
1299LES_se0_ag3_m_021557.3639[Still doing] that.1558.0592
1300LES_int_011558.4367[That's terrific.]1559.2465
1302 1559.3060I got like a little recording studio that I own and operate in the Bronx.1562.0614
1305 1563.2819So,1563.6990
1307 1563.8439still doing that music [thing.]1565.1313 
1308LES_int_011564.6308[Kind of like] this uh, [this set up?]1566.4270
1309LES_se0_ag3_m_021565.5751[Yeah, yeah, a little-]1566.1459
1311 1566.2380[Yeah. A little] bit1566.7254 
1312 1566.8746different. Little bit [different, but]1568.0029
1313Misc1567.6825[Play in the [subway.]1568.4595
1314LES_se0_ag3_m_021568.6615Yeah, I'd play in the subway [sometime. Yeah.]1570.2787
1315LES_int_011569.4325[You do?]1570.1291
1316 1570.3852[Cool, cool.]1571.1799
1319 1570.9548[I do] that.1571.5124 
1320LES_int_011571.6748And are you- are you working as well? Or are-1573.5056
1321LES_se0_ag3_m_021573.5056No, that's all I do.1574.3277
1322LES_int_011574.4769Oh, that's [wonderful]1575.3945
1323LES_se0_ag3_m_021575.0623[That's pretty] much all I do.1576.1057
1324LES_int_011576.3269That's [nice.]1577.2093
1326LES_int_011577.4332Be a little bit [/inaudible/ of your time too.]1578.8189
1327LES_se0_ag3_m_021577.9337[Yeah, it's okay.] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good.1579.8018
1330 1581.4136Um.1582.0765 
1332 1582.5111So, I1583.7744 
1334 1583.9588you can tell I'm interested in the kind of the Lower East Side, uh,1586.7631 
1336 1587.1187as a community.1588.0407 
1338 1588.7941And,1589.5009 
1340 1589.6327uh. One thing I always ask people is1592.0254 
1342 1592.4819for them, like for you,1593.7507 
1344 1594.0405what1594.3478 
1346 1594.8379is the Lower East Side geographically?1596.7652 
1348 1596.9013Cause a lot of people have different1598.3764 
1349LES_se0_ag3_m_021598.3764Okay. [Oh, I-]1599.1381
1350LES_int_011598.5817[/renditions/ of it.]1599.5695
1351LES_se0_ag3_m_021599.3708[W- uh.] Okay, now it may have1600.8635
1352 1601.0303changed1601.5747
1354 1602.0621since the [you know. But let's say.]1604.2177 
1355LES_int_011602.7210[Yeah. It could have changed. But, maybe then and] now, or [whatever.]1605.5412
1356LES_se0_ag3_m_021604.9485[Then, the] Lower East Side, when I was a kid was like1607.9778
1357 1608.0700to right here,1609.1397
1359 1609.6709to that bridge here, which is the Manhattan [Bridge.]1612.1777 
1360LES_int_011612.0329[The] Manhattan [Bridge.]1613.0075
1361LES_se0_ag3_m_021612.5685[Mighta] went to Houston Street.1614.8311
1362 1615.3782The- now, uh, and over to the East River, actually.1618.5442
1364LES_se0_ag3_m_021619.2949It kind- those were the boundaries to me, then. Now, they've, obviously, they've expanded.1622.9871
1366 1623.3998Uh.1623.6896 
1367LES_int_011623.9140I think they've expanded?1624.7965
1368LES_se0_ag3_m_021624.9062Yeah, I thinks- yeah. That i-1626.6689
1370 1626.8313to-1627.0245 
1372 1627.1431to go even further than the bridge, let's say.1629.7360 
1374 1630.0653Up to as far as1631.0004 
1376 1631.3999Fourteenth, to- or even Twenty-Third Street.1633.6434 
1378 1633.9595[And,] Yeah. I think it go- i- wa-1636.2106 
1380LES_se0_ag3_m_021636.3203they call it all Chelsea. They got all kind of names [for it.]1638.3091
1381LES_int_011638.0062[They call-] yeah.1638.8315
1382LES_se0_ag3_m_021638.8315But I [d- still the Lower East Side. Yeah. East.] Yeah. Exactly, East Village, but that's the Lower East Side to me, [you know.]1643.7750
1383LES_int_011639.1037[East Village is sort of the.]1640.9345
1385 1643.4238[It is.] It feels. Does it feel like the same neighborhood to [you?]1645.7852 
1387 1646.3033Yeah. It's- it's still the s-1647.7921
1389 1647.8711you know, it's kind of like1649.0916 
1391 1649.5251overlapping and stuff, so.1650.8466 
1392LES_int_011650.8466Right, right.1651.6193
1393LES_se0_ag3_m_021651.7071You got that going there.1652.9935
1394LES_int_011652.9935Um. Okay, cool. So, we have these1654.7633
1396 1655.3472geographic boundaries for the neighborhood.1657.1708 
1398 1658.0401What I wanna know is if all the people who live inside those streets1662.5884 
1400LES_int_011663.2820make up1663.7216
1402 1664.0860like, one community, one Lower East Side community?1666.8914 
1404LES_int_011667.2163And I think if1668.1997
1406 1668.5070i- to ask you that, first, I need to ask you to define1671.2290 
1408 1671.5056community, like what does that mean? And1673.1870 
1410 1673.5081what does it mean for people to be in a community together?1675.9052 
1411LES_se0_ag3_m_021676.3425Well, I mean1677.0098
1413 1677.5103there's certain social things that you're-1679.1303 
1415 1679.6440that you1680.0567 
1417 1680.4342communicate1681.2596 
1419 1682.4345on, certain things that you do together, to- to-1685.1609 
1421 1685.7701You're raising your kids, your schools, you got your daycare, [you got] your-1689.1072 
1425 1690.4156your- whatever you- activities, after school activities that kids do, [and]1694.3570 
1429 1695.3212the job kind of situation, I- I don't know how many people, you know, work in- on the Lower East Side.1701.0680 
1431 1701.9480[Um.]1702.7251 
1433 1703.1553So, i- so it's m- uh-1704.4329
1435 1704.5602sounds like maybe a little more than just live.1706.7915 
1437 1707.1358But, i- [somehow.]1708.5588 
1438LES_se0_ag3_m_021707.7812[Yeah. I mean, it's a poppy]1708.8612
1439 1708.9490lot of people that work here, you know, and there were like, back also, in- in- in the days, they had like1714.0955
1441 1714.4950the Henry Street Settlement where a-1716.3152 
1443 1716.4074s- kids would go to do things after school1719.0855 
1445LES_se0_ag3_m_021719.3248[programs] they had.1720.5014
1447LES_se0_ag3_m_021721.0194And that's all a part of, you know, what the community should be.1723.5894
1449LES_se0_ag3_m_021723.8352[Which] they don't have a lot of those things now. The Edgies, the Educational [Alliance.]1727.6087
1451LES_se0_ag3_m_021728.0310Which has been around forever, I think they still there. And1730.2612
1453 1730.4105lot of people1731.2534 
1455 1732.2456you know, a lot of activities they have going on there.1734.2827 
1457LES_se0_ag3_m_021734.5110[Uh.] I mean, I don't even know, I couldn't even tell you, I couldn't tell you be more specific about it, but I'm sure that1738.7279
1458 1738.8771they're doing things like that [there].1740.3128
1460LES_se0_ag3_m_021740.6201And Henry Street Settlement, I think, as far as I know, is still around.1742.6626
1461LES_int_011743.0709E- [Yeah. It is.] Yeah.1744.3705
1463 1744.6059Um.1745.1459
1465 1745.5454[That's all.]1745.9844 
1466LES_int_011745.6639[So it's-] So it's a little more than just kind of living in the same place. [You hafta.]1749.5400
1467LES_se0_ag3_m_021749.2107[Yeah, I mean,] people work and people1750.8812
1468 1751.2061relate and socialize and [stuff, like that. Yeah. That whole] interaction thing going a-1756.0451
1469LES_int_011753.1519[Interact, or something /inaudible/]1754.7324
1470LES_se0_ag3_m_021756.2690I mean it's lesser than it was.1757.8275
1472 1758.2914Back in-1759.2090 
1473LES_int_011759.2265[Yeah. So, that's /my next question/. Does it seem is-] is the [same.]1762.9934
1474LES_se0_ag3_m_021759.3890[Back- it's a little different. Yeah.1761.6500
1476 1762.2031[It's changed.] It's not the same.1764.2254 
1477 1764.3351Uh.1764.7127
1479 1765.1479As it was. I think we were closer1767.0093 
1481 1767.5801back then.1768.0937 
1483 1768.5064You know. [We were closer.]1769.6216 
1484LES_int_011768.7567[Why, why] is that?1770.3021
1485LES_se0_ag3_m_021770.9123I don't know why that is actually. I don't know what, well, you know, the reasoning,1774.2079
1487 1774.4186you know, reason why you know, that separation thing came [around, but.]1777.8715 
1489 1777.9813What do you think happened?1779.3291
1490LES_se0_ag3_m_021779.8077I c- I c- I can't exactly say. Um.1782.1653
1492 1782.9292Put my finger on as to why1784.4191 
1494 1785.4047that might have-1786.0194 
1496 1786.1159may have changed. It's just1787.3145 
1498 1787.7403you know, if1788.2803 
1500 1788.4121when people move out of the neighborhood, you didn't teach their kids1790.9299 
1502 1791.0923that- the same things that we1792.9543 
1504 1793.7095l- l- learned, or the same values that we had, I don't know. I just know that it's not that.1799.0552 
1506Misc1799.3110[I think] you're a little more radical than that. Speak your mind.1801.9056
1510 1802.9434[No, I- I- n- <laugh>]1804.5634 
1511Misc1803.8478[No. Cause I've heard] you. I've hear- I'm not influencing you, but.1806.6575
1512LES_se0_ag3_m_021806.8628No, [I- I- I- k- I k-]1808.2369
1513Misc1807.1915[You know, you-] You and I spoke about how1809.7466
1514 1810.0568there's no money inv- we- we played on the jazz mobile,1813.2749
1516 1813.7008we played for constant street fairs when we were kids and [you don't see] any of [that anymore.]1818.1179 
1518LES_se0_ag3_m_021817.7930[Oh, no.] You definitely don't have any [of that.]1819.3516
1519Misc1818.7276[And,] and, [and, I know you and I /inaudible/]1822.1169
1520LES_se0_ag3_m_021820.0227[There's not even like]1820.8393
1522 1821.1511[The programs that] they have and stuff, it's- it's-1824.0305 
1523 1824.5705it's- it's1825.3728
1525 1825.4738just a lot of- lot of things are not there that-1827.2634 
1527 1827.3688that1827.6805 
1529 1827.9614would bring people together.1829.0019 
1531 1829.1293You know what I', [saying, a lot of-]1830.0381 
1532LES_int_011829.4893[So, like,] money is being taken out of the neighborhood? I mean.1833.0591
1533LES_se0_ag3_m_021834.0271Well, I mean you- [you- if you listen] to the news, you can hear how much money we're spending on some1838.1814
1534LES_int_011834.6648[What do you thi- yeah, what do you.]1835.9599
1535LES_se0_ag3_m_021838.4800[bullshit. <laugh>]1839.3613
1537 1839.3613Yeah. How- [well that's-]1840.3025
1538LES_se0_ag3_m_021839.8415[Where that money] is not filtered down into the-1841.7278
1539 1841.8639into the community1842.8254
1541 1843.1327and I think it should be. A lot of that1844.7088 
1543LES_se0_ag3_m_021845.0732[government] money is not1846.1269
1544 1846.4458somehow, doesn't find its way back here.1848.2063
1545LES_int_011848.2502Right. [Right.]1849.0361
1547 1850.0327<ts> Which, you know,1850.6912
1549 1851.2093government funding for certain of1852.3552 
1551 1852.6098these programs and these places,1854.2985 
1553 1854.5340if it's not there, then these places will close up, and then that means there's not gonna be that social gathering, that's not gonna happen anymore.1860.1425 
1555LES_se0_ag3_m_021860.5947So, that's probably1861.7494
1556 1863.2248[The- some of th-] Yeah. The reasoning. You know, there's just that people don't have a way to. Where do we gather now? There is no place to gather. You know.1870.7481
1557LES_int_011863.2248[That's part of it.]1864.0623
1558 1870.7481Do you think that's been happening for a while? [Or recently?]1873.6009
1559LES_se0_ag3_m_021872.7184[It's- it's over a long] period of time and still happening now, you know.1875.6292
1562LES_int_011877.1730[You could] talk about a couple different like, periods of the neighborhood, you know, when I-1880.8696
1563 1881.0014when I read kind of, what's [been written about.]1882.9528
1564LES_se0_ag3_m_021882.3953[Oh, when I]1882.7377
1565 1882.9660growing up early on,1884.3226
1567 1884.7221like I say, I studied fencing at the Henry Street Settlement.1887.0890 
1568LES_int_011887.2778You did?1887.7964
1569LES_se0_ag3_m_021887.7964Yeah, I s- [took fencing] up there. Uh.1890.1210
1571 1890.1210[Woah.]1890.6522
1572LES_se0_ag3_m_021890.4572[They had.]1890.9621
1573LES_int_011890.8366[With the] sword?1891.4776
1574LES_se0_ag3_m_021891.4776Yeah. With the whole thing. I had to- I was pretty good1893.8231
1575 1893.9416actually too.1894.5518
1576LES_int_011894.6309That's [cool.]1895.3377
1578 1896.0050They don't have that1896.6548
1580 1896.9094now.1897.3177 
1582 1898.1211You know.1898.5091 
1584 1898.7199And you'd go there, and you'd meet1899.7691 
1586 1899.8745guys from you know, wherever. All those different project people, you would see people1903.9059 
1588 1904.0374from each1904.5247 
1590 1904.7398development1905.3062 
1592LES_se0_ag3_m_021905.6629[would] wind up there1906.6375
1593 1906.7385at these-1907.2083
1595 1907.3999at these, they-1907.9092 
1597 1908.0102they taught k- had karate classes down there.1910.0297 
1599LES_se0_ag3_m_021910.6312And you'd meet guys from everywhere, you know?1912.5190
1601 1912.7649You'd1912.9854 
1603 1913.2346meet guys from the Smith, any- everybody would end up there.1915.9731 
1605LES_se0_ag3_m_021916.4918So, you had that camaraderie, and that kind of, you know,1919.0381
1607 1919.4289Then, if those programs don't exist, and then you don't have that1922.0499 
1609 1922.3425you know, that meeting of the [minds kind of a thing. Yeah.]1925.2050 
1610LES_int_011923.4840[A way for people to] find [common ground.]1926.5264
1611LES_se0_ag3_m_021925.6967[Yeah. It's nothing to do now.] You know.1927.1411
1612 1927.2904Where do we go? You know, what are we gonna do?1929.0898
1614LES_se0_ag3_m_021929.8888So, I think a largely1931.3815
1616 1931.9438a- a lot of1932.5848 
1618 1932.7780the money being spent is not being-1934.6775 
1620 1935.0024doesn't find its way back to these communities.1936.8112 
1622LES_se0_ag3_m_021937.3380And- and that's1938.1151
1624 1938.3609the reason why a lot of-1939.5726 
1626 1939.8712there's not that same1941.0331 
1628 1941.2617social thing going on.1942.5653 
1631 1943.3731Now,1943.7946 
1633 1943.9191the time that you guys were growing up though- you were young and teenagers, wha- what I was gonna say, is when I read, you know, books about the Lower East Side,1950.3021 
1635 1950.5040considered kind of a- a- bad period. In the sense that there was a lot of crime and drugs in the [neighborhood.]1956.5203 
1636LES_se0_ag3_m_021956.1910[Yeah.] There was that. I mean, I didn't see that, really. I mean it was there but,1959.4568
1637 1959.5666you know, it1960.0715
1639 1960.2032it just seemed like it was1961.2305 
1641 1961.8698it was just part of it. You know. [And it didn't really.] Yeah. It didn't really1965.2278 
1642LES_int_011963.1424[It's just natural.]1964.0424
1643LES_se0_ag3_m_021965.5264you know, and I didn't involve myself in it, so it didn't really1968.1424
1644LES_int_011968.9151[And so, it's interesting] that [in spite-]1970.3551
1645LES_se0_ag3_m_021969.0161[You know.]1969.5661
1647 1969.9556[But you did] see it, ye- it was definitely a1971.6563 
1648 1971.7924you know, [you'd seen a lot of]1972.9558
1649LES_int_011972.1655[It was.]1972.8578
1652 1973.6994uh,1973.8750 
1654 1974.4852in the neighborhood1975.1438 
1656 1975.2404that kind of filtered in.1976.1157 
1658 1976.2254I don't think that when we were growing up early,1978.0474 
1660 1978.5259you didn't see that so much, or- or maybe we just didn't see it in,1981.0371 
1662 1981.1293you know, didn't recognize it.1982.2708 
1664 1982.5386[As you got]1983.0830 
1666LES_se0_ag3_m_021983.6625to be a teenager, and then you saw more of that, or maybe just realized what was going on.1988.1510
1668LES_se0_ag3_m_021988.5330[And so,] it's a lot of drugs filtering into the neighborhood.1990.6233
1671LES_int_011992.6477And I- and- and- you didn't get involved, but did it affect friends of yours and [people around you?]1997.0643
1672LES_se0_ag3_m_021996.2653[I mean, I knew people] that- that-1998.0126
1673 1998.4605that1998.8995
1675 1999.0867involved themselves. I mean, I'd still know some people that's still the same people.2002.9370 
1676LES_int_012003.2556[Still involved. <laugh>]2004.3063
1677LES_se0_ag3_m_022003.3278[Are still-]2003.7945
1679 2003.9525[uh. Yeah.] Couple of people from [back then, when we were growing] up. Yeah. And they would still, they're still doing it. Same thing.2009.2200 
1680LES_int_012005.6472[Hard to quit right?]2006.7579
1681 2009.3386Yeah.2009.8039
1682LES_se0_ag3_m_022010.2605Um. So,2011.8520
1684 2012.3744you know, y- you seen a lot of that.2014.4044 
1686LES_se0_ag3_m_022015.1288And you kind of ignored that, because, you know, that's not the good stuff, so you, kind of, you know.2018.8792
1688 2019.0372Kind of2019.4016 
1690 2019.7001didn't wanna pay attention to that, but.2021.2192 
1691LES_int_012021.7241That- that [seems to.]2023.0236
1692LES_se0_ag3_m_022022.5363[But it existed. It existed.]2023.8753
1694 2024.0465[Yeah. That] seems like a really positive attitude. I mean a lot of people weren't as successful maybe as ignoring, or2029.9256
1695LES_se0_ag3_m_022024.0904[It's definitely.]2024.7138
1696 2030.6961Yeah. I mean, you- you [could not ignore] it [totally. It] depends2034.1276
1697LES_int_012031.5132[saying okay, I'm not.]2032.3254
1699 2033.1333[Right.]2033.5108 
1700LES_se0_ag3_m_022034.2835to what level do I get involved with it, you know what I'm saying. [And]2037.0005
1702LES_se0_ag3_m_022037.2288and usually, you know, you just went about your business, you know, just kind of like, whatever.2040.7624
1705LES_int_012042.4653And then, okay. So then,2043.6375
1707 2043.9185there's that sort of2044.9985 
1709 2045.3936stuff happening, and then2046.7985 
1711 2047.1102maybe in the eighties, nineties, you get this gentrification starting, with, uh, a sort of an opposite force. Like,2052.4604 
1713 2052.7722um.2053.3078 
1715 2053.4000With the2053.9703 
1717 2054.3511yuppie people moving in.2056.1643 
1718LES_se0_ag3_m_022056.3048Yeah. That- I think that was- I don't think that was eighties. That may have started later in the [nineties.] Yeah, yeah, yeah.2061.1550
1719LES_int_012059.7940[A little later.]2060.3428
1720 2061.1550Yeah.2061.5940
1722LES_int_012062.8117And so that's ch- kind of changed the character. I mean I'm sort of trying to [figure out, like what's changed this community feeling?]2068.2688
1723LES_se0_ag3_m_022066.0649[Yeah, an- and- and basically, what happened, and you get this]2068.7166
1724 2068.8352new element of people coming in. So now, there's really nobody to talk to, you know, the people you did know are not there. So,2074.7631
1726LES_se0_ag3_m_022075.2065[that] whole social community thing2077.6558
1727 2077.8489is2078.1343
1729 2078.2863becoming less and less. [You know.]2079.9370 
1731LES_se0_ag3_m_022080.3409[You got.]2080.5868
1732LES_int_012080.3409[Is any] of it, like, class2082.1717
1733 2082.5346related? Like are the-2084.0009
1735 2084.1590the more yuppie type [people that are moving in.]2086.1434 
1736LES_se0_ag3_m_022085.3970[I would say the middle] class. I think back then, we were like lower2088.1541
1737 2088.7102cla- we definitely were lower class, we weren't like middle class [then.]2091.7702
1738LES_int_012091.6323[Yeah.] Or- Yeah.2092.6728
1739LES_se0_ag3_m_022092.8791Definitely weren't that. We were like2094.3630
1741 2094.8093upper lower. [You know, they had these-] these- they had these <laugh> [they had all these]2098.2354 
1742LES_int_012095.5723[Within class, or.]2096.8925
1744 2097.4358[Lower middle, or]2098.5778 
1745LES_se0_ag3_m_022098.3759[these] des- [yeah exactly]2099.4032
1747LES_se0_ag3_m_022099.7105It was [lower. We were in the lower.]2101.3344
1749LES_se0_ag3_m_022101.6505Whe- we were the lower lower, or the middle lower,2103.9537
1751LES_se0_ag3_m_022104.2830or the upper lower. [<laugh>]2105.5424
1752LES_int_012105.4211[Right. Right.]2106.1587
1753LES_se0_ag3_m_022105.8190[We were] in the [lower.]2106.7014
1754Misc2106.5878[I'd say we were] middle lower.2107.9702
1756LES_se0_ag3_m_022108.0542Yeah, yeah. exactly. Yeah.2109.1693
1758 2109.5480Something like that.2110.3635 
1760LES_se0_ag3_m_022111.3480And then, you have an influx of, let's say, middle [class.]2114.4300
1761LES_int_012114.2631[Yeah. Yeah.]2115.0407
1762LES_se0_ag3_m_022114.7861[Which, like] you know, the whole middle class, it's a whole nother thing, you know. We don't know what that is.2118.4432
1764LES_se0_ag3_m_022119.2186So, the influx of that.2120.2503
1766 2120.6603Obviously, it's gonna knock that whole2122.1925 
1768 2122.4339community spirit thing down, because it's- it's2124.4930 
1770 2124.6203/you know I'm-/2125.0681 
1772 2125.1691They're like people coming from Mars, you know.2126.8363 
1774 2127.4202[These] uh, you know.2128.1665 
1776LES_se0_ag3_m_022128.6544They're not part of us, [you know.]2129.9890
1778 2130.5247What's your opinion about2131.7013
1780 2131.8509uh, sort of general gentrification of the Lower East Side? [Is it something you see.]2136.0332 
1781LES_se0_ag3_m_022135.8356[I] mean it's good. Only thing I don't like is the fact that2137.8398
1782 2138.0620the rents seem to go up when that happens. <laugh> [You know.]2140.5260
1784LES_se0_ag3_m_022140.8202And then you get to people who can't afford to live there anymore, then they're pushed out.2143.9724
1785LES_int_012144.1041Right. Right.2144.8900
1788 2146.1089You know, again, that whole community thing is gone. You know.2148.7870 
1791 2149.7265Yeah.2149.9812 
1792LES_se0_ag3_m_022149.9812And that's what happens when those things happen.2151.7477
1793Misc2152.2800[Can I] just say something real quick about what would have done.2155.0887
1795 2155.3126Yeah. At one point, your family make up was your mother,2158.3342 
1797 2159.0410your younger brother,2159.9806 
1799 2160.6468that's not with us anymore,2161.8409 
1801Misc2162.6487and you had your grandmother.2163.8648
1803 2164.6492And then you had your older brother staying there for a little while.2167.5204 
1805Misc2168.5306Okay. Gentrification, your mother wouldn't have been able to-2171.3974
1807 2171.5423to have that type of large apartment like that under the normal rents if she wasn't [in the projects.]2176.3086 
1808LES_se0_ag3_m_022175.7554[Well, I think] if you live- if she was in the [projects, no.]2178.0686
1810LES_se0_ag3_m_022178.4154No, no way.2179.1969
1811Misc2178.6465[Well,] what would have happened right there? Your grandmother woulda had to go to a s- to an old age home,2182.9022
1812LES_se0_ag3_m_022182.9022Right. [Exactly.]2183.7276
1813Misc2183.5388[She] passed away in your house.2184.8773
1815Misc2185.5007God [bless her. I] hope that happens to me.2187.0516
1816LES_se0_ag3_m_022185.7082[Actually. Yeah.]2186.2526
1818Misc2187.9862Your brother,2188.7325
1820 2189.5755who was a little dysfunctional, your younger brother, whatever, would have probably been in jail.2193.3637 
1823 2193.8642Right, right.2194.3427 
1824Misc2194.4920Your other brother,2195.3678
1826 2196.1669would have been2196.8518 
1828 2197.1635just bopping around. He had no family ties.2199.7296 
1830 2200.0940And then, your mother would also felt bad cause she didn't have her family around.2203.0047 
1831LES_se0_ag3_m_022203.0047Right. Right.2203.4229
1832Misc2203.8575So, I- I don't mean to interject in that, but that- that woulda been in a2206.4653
1833LES_se0_ag3_m_022207.0086[Well, that would've been.]2207.8307
1834Misc2207.0086[like an exact] outcome2208.7132
1835 2209.1566of her- of- that would have been what happened2211.2203
1837 2211.6725if-2212.0149 
1839 2212.1466if she wouldn't've had those assets [of- of the projects.]2215.0157 
1840LES_se0_ag3_m_022213.6569[Right, right, right. A- Of living in the projects.]2215.5864
1841Misc2215.5019[With low rent.]2216.3712
1842LES_se0_ag3_m_022215.7653[Oh, no doubt.]2216.3712
1844LES_se0_ag3_m_022216.8629[No doubt.]2217.3127
1845Misc2216.8629[No doubt.] That woulda killed that. Your family community.2219.4493
1846LES_se0_ag3_m_022219.9103Right. And that's- that's what I'm saying. That's what's happening.2221.8096
1848 2222.1037Whe- when you have that.2223.2013 
1852 2224.6907It does kill that family thing.2225.9754 
1854LES_se0_ag3_m_022226.0851[Because] you can't afford now to2227.8566
1855 2228.0586live here, and everybody's gonna get2229.2703
1857 2229.4015you know, wherever you g- whatever you do, you're gonna have to do whatever you can do.2232.7359 
1859LES_se0_ag3_m_022232.8557[You know.]2233.2289
1860 2233.3343And [so, you-] it won't be that solidarity thing going on anymore.2236.8641
1862LES_se0_ag3_m_022237.6631Um. With the family thing. So, that kind of breaks up the family. That would do that2240.9240
1864 2241.2971as well.2241.7845 
1866 2242.7723<ts> Um.2243.3007 
1868 2243.7837I'm not bitter about that. Don't get me wrong.2245.3773 
1870 2245.4607I'm you know. [Tha- just- just.]2246.6686 
1871LES_int_012245.9530[So, you see some] positive effects of2248.0169
1872 2248.3369[gentrification.]2249.4125
1873LES_se0_ag3_m_022248.5784[Well, the neighborhood got] better I think at one time, cause there was the whole2251.6691
1874 2251.8623just drug influx [at one] time when, you know, that whole Lower East Side, Avenue A, Avenue B, Avenue C,2257.4632
1876LES_se0_ag3_m_022257.6695it was like2258.0471
1878 2258.1744crazy drug infested [there.]2259.4959 
1880LES_se0_ag3_m_022259.9475You know, you go down there, you see buildings burnt out, all kind of stuff.2262.4719
1882 2263.0690And that whole2263.6090 
1884 2263.7802gentrification thing2264.7944 
1886 2265.3504kind of helped that.2266.0397 
1888 2266.2416You know, the neighborhood now is, I can't live there, but, you [know. <laugh> I still can't live there.]2270.1534 
1890 2270.1616Okay.2270.6050
1892 2271.1100[So, you see sort of] positives and- [positives] and negatives at the same [time.]2274.8989 
1893LES_se0_ag3_m_022271.1867[But the is.]2271.9162
1895 2272.8534[Oh.2273.0895 
1897 2274.6398[Yeah,] yeah.2275.4465 
1899LES_se0_ag3_m_022275.5870[I can't afford] to live there, but it's good to see that the neighborhood, they're fixing up the neighborhood and [stuff.]2279.9508
1900LES_int_012279.5820[Right.] Right. [Okay.]2280.7194
1902 2281.3118you know, there are positives and negatives to [that]2283.4580
1903LES_int_012283.0672[Yeah.] Yea- it's co- I mean, it's [complicated /like you said/.]2285.3019
1904LES_se0_ag3_m_022284.6390[Yeah, yeah.]2285.0165
1906LES_se0_ag3_m_022286.7463Hm. Are these good?2287.3547
1907LES_int_012287.5936These are so good.2288.2072
1909LES_int_012288.6901If I uh, if I asked you if there were a coup-2291.1975
1911 2291.3643uh, uh, a few2292.4750 
1913 2292.7604places for you,2293.9282 
1915 2294.1697in the neighborhood,2295.1805 
1917 2295.3913that stick out in your2296.7698 
1919 2296.9630time that you spent there as like, really important to you.2299.3041 
1921 2299.7667Um.2300.3550 
1923 2300.5526Places where you spent time, or- or that really matter to you.2303.6823 
1925 2304.0818What would you [say?]2304.8369 
1927 2306.2243Henry Street Settlement. One of 'em.2307.3789
1931 2309.1880Cause I- I- I-2309.8824 
1933 2310.3720we used to rehearse as a band there.2311.6934 
1934LES_int_012312.1193Oh, you did?2312.5846
1937 2313.1334We rehearsed there.2314.0060 
1939 2314.4713I studied karate there,2315.8411 
1941 2316.1001studied [fencing there.]2317.2548 
1942LES_int_012316.8640[Karate,] fencing,2318.1241
1943 2318.4050[you know] a lot of cool [sports.]2319.6738
1946 2319.4763[Yeah,] yeah.2319.8675 
1947 2320.1441Was into that. I'm- r- you know.2321.1802
1949 2321.7678Not now.2322.2946 
1951 2322.4219I don't do anything now, but.2323.4756 
1953LES_se0_ag3_m_022324.6039So, that's a point and place for me.2325.8712
1956 2328.9400Basically,2329.3746
1958 2329.8268I mean, in- some of the2330.8410 
1960 2330.9507surrounding parks in the area.2332.4551 
1962 2332.9380Cause we always found a way to play in these parks2335.0014 
1964 2335.1332[you know,] we'd get the band together, and we'd just play2336.9332 
1966LES_se0_ag3_m_022338.3936[whatever park.]2339.0126
1967LES_int_012338.5604[So, you guys] were just playing. You'd set up your2340.7644
1968LES_se0_ag3_m_022341.2385We'd [set up our equipment] and we'd find some electricity, a lamp pole to plug into,2344.7008
1969LES_int_012341.4273[own equipment.]2342.1473
1970LES_se0_ag3_m_022344.9642plug all the amps in, and we'd just [play.]2346.7691
1971LES_int_012346.4091[And you] start playing.2347.4453
1972LES_se0_ag3_m_022347.4453Yeah, we'd just play.2348.0643
1973LES_int_012348.5761And what kind of music was is?2349.5771
1974LES_se0_ag3_m_022350.6176Oh, we played all kind of, we played rock music at one point, we played uh,2354.0537
1976 2354.3346R and B music,2355.4981 
1978LES_se0_ag3_m_022356.2795uh, pop2356.9238
1980 2357.0336music, I guess, and back then, it wasn't all these classifications of music too, it was just music then, [you know.]2362.1751 
1981LES_int_012361.7712[Right,] right.2362.5571
1982LES_se0_ag3_m_022362.6624Now, they have you know, all kind of categories now, but.2364.6951
1985LES_int_012366.9741What about the music that you play now? Or you- can you [categorize?]2369.7296
1986LES_se0_ag3_m_022369.5408[R and] B music [kind of.]2370.8360
1987LES_int_012370.5490[R and B.]2371.1258
1989 2371.3584Play some funk. We /??/ call it funk. [We-[2373.3503
1991LES_se0_ag3_m_022373.6238I still don't like to get into those [classifications, but.]2375.9852
1992LES_int_012375.1385[Okay, okay.]2375.9852
1993LES_se0_ag3_m_022376.4857That's what they say it is. And [that's]2378.8088
1994LES_int_012378.2732[It's unique.]2379.0562
1995LES_se0_ag3_m_022379.0562Yeah, yeah. I, you know. I just call it music, you know2381.2689
1996LES_int_012381.2689Right, [right.]2381.9551
1997LES_se0_ag3_m_022381.6171[I let] you put the title on it, [you know,] I don't.2383.7771
2001 2385.4044basically, that Henry Street Settlement was a big2387.1429 
2003 2387.3800big part of my life2388.2493 
2005LES_se0_ag3_m_022388.4951[growing] up2388.9342
2006 2389.8430because2390.3391
2008 2391.3956it, you know, s- that's where the, lot of the development stages of my life, [you know]2395.5005 
2009LES_int_012395.1756[You spent /enough-/] you spent a lot of time there.2397.2103
2010LES_se0_ag3_m_022395.6278[took place.]2396.2249
2011 2397.3708Pre- I l- I think I did, I did, I did.2399.5907
2013 2399.8761I f- I cause I studied- I was in the basketball team that was a part of the Henry Street Settlement. I couldn't play, but.2404.3158 
2015LES_se0_ag3_m_022405.1894I sucked really. [<laugh>]2407.2572
2017LES_se0_ag3_m_022407.7647[But, I think I got] on the basketball team cause my brother could play.2410.7709
2019 2411.1309Okay.2411.5129
2020LES_se0_ag3_m_022411.5129And they put me on the team thinking that, if i- you know, if you're his brother, then you should be able to play.2415.7831
2022LES_se0_ag3_m_022416.2221[I] couldn't play at all, but2417.1090
2023 2417.2495you know, they found that out pretty quick.2418.5589
2025LES_se0_ag3_m_022419.3008But, everything else I did, they, you know, was fencing, and the [karate, yeah]2422.7325
2026LES_int_012421.4286[Did you uh, end up] on the bench? Or2423.5052
2027LES_se0_ag3_m_022423.8564Most of the time.2424.4359
2029 2424.8131I think I got in, I'll tell you a quick story.2426.8371 
2031 2427.7622But,2428.0209 
2033 2428.1351you know,2428.5082 
2035 2428.7234I- it was another guy who sit on the bench with me.2430.2863 
2037 2430.5761And we would have these things, or who's gonna get in first? You know, it's like,2433.3337 
2039 2433.4978I bet I'm gonna get in first, and he said, nah, bet I'm gonna get in first. So, one day,2436.7894 
2041 2437.0796I was so excited, a guy p- okay Mitchell, you getting in.2439.2696 
2043 2439.7907And I got so excited, I got in, you know. And they gave me the ball.2442.8580 
2045 2443.0823And I went the other way.2444.2429 
2047LES_se0_ag3_m_022444.5898[And shot] the ball in the other people's basket and made it.2446.9869
2048 2447.0791You know, that was like. <laugh>2448.4066
2049LES_int_012448.7749That's such a [classic story. (laughing)]2450.6566
2050LES_se0_ag3_m_022449.3153[That's when I knew that]2450.9261
2051 2451.1413basketball's not my (laughing) <laugh>2452.4583
2052LES_int_012452.9756And [they immediately] pulled you [back on the bench?]2455.2741
2053LES_se0_ag3_m_022453.1125[my thing.]2453.7271
2055 2454.1854[Yeah. Go-]2454.5893 
2057 2454.8702[back on] the bench. That was it, and I was like okay. My brother was like, he was like, oh, no. He didn't do that.2459.4109 
2058 2459.5129Did he do that?2460.3063
2059Misc2460.5227Then the other team offered you a [contract.]2462.0576
2060LES_se0_ag3_m_022461.7668[<laugh> Exac- <laugh>]2463.5273
2062LES_se0_ag3_m_022463.8258Yeah, I got- I end up playing for the other team.2465.3624
2064 2465.5512[<laugh>]2467.2897 
2065LES_int_012466.5390[That's hilarious.]2467.9395
2068LES_se0_ag3_m_022469.2039Uh. No. Basketball wasn't my thing there, but.2471.4023
2070 2471.8047Everything else. And that Henry Street Settlement's where all that happened.2474.5047 
2072LES_se0_ag3_m_022475.4793So, I'd say that was a pretty2476.6735
2074 2476.9194big2477.0818 
2075LES_int_012477.2570[That /inaudible/ place, yeah.]2478.8166
2076LES_se0_ag3_m_022477.3496[part of my life back then, yeah.]2478.9066
2077 2479.0493For me.2479.4093
2079 2479.6596Yeah.2479.9493 
2080LES_int_012480.1513LaGuardia [Projects.]2481.4601
2085Misc2484.7336They also [bought us equipment.]2485.8604
2086LES_se0_ag3_m_022485.1510[Kick the can, ring /unintelligible/.]2486.5497
2087Misc2486.8043Remember? They bought our band [equipment?]2488.1880
2088LES_se0_ag3_m_022487.8097[Red Rover.]2488.5078
2089 2489.2497Right, I think we played one of the organ- one of the organizations,2492.0726
2090Misc2492.7400Bought us equipment.2493.4205
2091LES_se0_ag3_m_022493.4205that um.2494.2239
2092 2494.4199A- in [fact, the Henry Street] Settlement.2495.6975
2093LES_int_012494.7404[Henry Street?]2495.2980
2095LES_int_012496.7643They [did?]2497.2824
2096LES_se0_ag3_m_022497.1639[Well,] we [did so] many things for them.2498.3668
2098 2498.5907They told us to [go home]2499.8990
2099LES_se0_ag3_m_022499.0912[Every event.]2499.8200
2100Misc2500.0878and write up.2500.6322
2101LES_se0_ag3_m_022500.7288<laugh> [A proposal right?]2502.4806
2102Misc2501.6404[The guy got mad] at me. He yelled at me.2503.5502
2103LES_int_012504.0084This is when you were [teenagers?]2505.2904
2104Misc2505.1938[Yeah.] We're like thirteen, [fourteen] years old. And he like, was talking all big to us.2508.9716
2106Misc2509.2219And you young lads,2510.6487
2108 2510.9429will do this and everything. God wants you to go2513.1709 
2110 2513.3202home, write up [what equipment you] need.2515.4012 
2114Misc2516.9630[we went to the /unintelligible/] store, and it came to like three thousand [dollars.]2520.4302
2115LES_se0_ag3_m_022517.2033[Did you really mean that?]2518.0551
2117 2519.9517[<laugh>]2520.9922 
2118Misc2521.2980And we went into this big meeting in a board room, and we're like, oh, what'll they think?2524.9814
2120 2525.2141And he's talking all of this thing,2526.5444 
2123 2527.4733I'm gonna get these kids equipment.2529.3655
2125 2529.5104Give me the [paper.]2530.3056 
2127Misc2530.8636[When we handed him the paper, he saw that three thousand dollars (laughing)]2534.4351
2129Misc2534.7864He went [<sound effect> started choking.]2537.8381
2131 2538.3211Yeah, well, do you need all that? And he's like do you need [all that?]2540.6237
2132LES_int_012539.9784[And did he say it's] too much?2541.3130
2133Misc2541.6072Yeah. [He want- think he wanted to give] us a hundred fifty [bucks or something. He-]2545.2974
2134LES_se0_ag3_m_022542.0682[Back then it was too much.]2543.1849
2136 2544.1376[<laugh>]2544.9630 
2138Misc2545.4335[So you ca-]2545.9125
2139LES_se0_ag3_m_022545.4898[What do you want? Get a couple of tambourines or something?]2547.3442
2142 2546.8252[So we whittled] him down to three hundred dollars or like four hundred [dollars or something.]2550.7527 
2143LES_se0_ag3_m_022550.0678[I think we did] get a PA system [right? We got a PA system out of it.]2553.4248
2146 2551.7257[Four hundred fifty. We got something out of it.]2553.7760 
2147 2553.8901[But E-]2554.2589
2148LES_int_012554.0394[Cause equipment is expensive.]2555.7483
2149Misc2554.5260[That was so-]2555.1933
2151 2555.6016[I- and] the way he said, he was a big shot.2557.6870 
2153 2557.7722[Yeah, I mean, you know.]2558.9601
2154Misc2557.8055[So, he'd be talking, you know,] get whatever you need.2559.9963
2156Misc2560.8172[And then we laughed] at him, and he got mad. Cause he said2563.2248
2157 2563.4267a guitar?2564.2126
2159 2564.5331Three hundred? I thought a guitar is fifteen dollars, and we started to laugh.2567.7693 
2161 2567.9256Now, [/inaudible/ was laughing at] a grown [man]2570.0203 
2164 2569.7394[Wait'll you see how much a guitar costs now.]2571.1559 
2165Misc2570.2327[who is ignorant] of how much [it should cost,]2572.5740
2166LES_se0_ag3_m_022571.7091[Right, right, right.]2572.5213
2167Misc2572.7452and he got mad at [us. At me.]2574.6769
2168LES_se0_ag3_m_022573.9745[Yeah. (laughing) That was, uh.]2574.6769
2169 2574.8569/RD-NAME-4/ right?2575.6296
2170Misc2575.6296Yeah. He got mad at me.2576.4681
2174Misc2578.4422[S-] Sorry man, you're stupid, but2580.2706
2175LES_se0_ag3_m_022580.4858[Lotta things happened down there.]2582.0445
2176Misc2580.4858[I remember, that was funny. I remember that.]2582.0445
2178LES_int_012582.5186[What's] a guitar cost?2583.6557
2179LES_se0_ag3_m_022584.2572[What? Now?]2584.7708
2180LES_int_012584.2572[Fifteen dollars.]2585.4059
2181Misc2585.2127[Oh] now? It's about twelve hundred bucks.2587.3244
2182LES_int_012587.4825[Oh. Yeah.]2588.0752
2183LES_se0_ag3_m_022587.6888[Yeah a] decent one.2588.5014
2184LES_int_012588.6284[A decent] one [yeah.]2589.7172
2187 2589.2254[Yeah.]2589.5240 
2188Misc2589.2254[Back then, was] like three hundred. Like, he was like, he said fifteen dollars, we all laughed, and he [got mad.]2593.3682
2190Misc2593.5570[And he yelled at me.]2594.4570
2191LES_int_012595.2384That's crazy.2596.3053
2192LES_se0_ag3_m_022596.2921Yeah, and that's f- that's- it happened at Henry Street Settlement. [/inaudible/]2599.4076
2195LES_se0_ag3_m_022600.0178Only thing that went on there. So, that was an important part of us- our thing right? Then we played for every function they had.2604.4119
2196 2604.9607Every function that site, [so they had to.]2606.8139
2197Misc2605.7910[Or they used us for that four hundred]2607.4568
2198LES_se0_ag3_m_022607.3786[Exactly. Or they o- forget- I think that was the worst thing that we shoulda- that we shoulda did.2611.8084
2201LES_se0_ag3_m_022612.1640Because now, we were at their- at their [will now, you know.]2615.6087
2202Misc2614.3970[They pla- they played for /inaudible/]2616.4785
2203LES_int_012615.6137[Free entertainment.]2616.8429
2204LES_se0_ag3_m_022616.2003[They're gonna snatch that.]2617.0317
2206LES_se0_ag3_m_022617.5234Yeah. Exactly, you know.2618.8784
2207Misc2619.0233November Wednesdays.2620.2133
2209 2620.3316I'm like what? [That's not even a holiday.]2621.9598 
2212Misc2623.3324[That's] a.2623.7846
2213LES_se0_ag3_m_022624.1622Whatever they-2624.6012
2215 2624.9568Whatever event they came up with.2626.7102 
2217 2627.3907When they came back from camp2628.8175 
2219 2629.1098And I don't even [know what day that was, you know.]2630.6596 
2220Misc2629.7453[Yeah. Camp- Camp] return day. [We're like, what?]2633.3497
2222 2634.0302And (coughing) we had to play for that.2635.2331
2224 2635.6063But, I think we enjoyed it so much, we did it anyway.2637.2731 
2225LES_int_012637.8263That's [really] funny.2638.9678
2227 2639.1876That's pretty much what hap- Henry Street Settlement was a big part of our thing.2641.9623
2230 2642.8300Cool, cool.2643.4227 
2232 2643.7696Um. I also really wanted to ask your opinion about um,2647.1281 
2234 2647.6725housing and development in the neighborhood.2650.1250 
2236 2650.6563So, I'm sure you've noticed2652.5338 
2238 2652.7840some of the2653.5699 
2240 2654.6762luxury buildings going up2656.1294 
2242 2656.3446in the [area.]2657.0871 
2243LES_se0_ag3_m_022656.7885[Yeah.] I see a lot of that.2658.2285
2244LES_int_012658.4632Definitely noticeable.2659.5461
2246 2660.3144<ts> Um.2661.1969 
2248 2662.0530I mean,2662.4805 
2250 2662.5858What's your take on that? I guess, [personally?]2664.3551 
2251LES_se0_ag3_m_022664.2437[I mean] they all look nice, but I would love to be able to afford to <laugh> live in them, but I- I can't, [so.]2669.7206
2252LES_int_012669.4572[Yeah. Yeah.]2670.1859
2253LES_se0_ag3_m_022670.0455[I mean, I'm-]2670.6425
2254 2670.8995I'm happy to see that.2671.9971
2256 2672.5048Again, but that2673.5234 
2258 2673.6595involves, you know, people that can afford that, eventually, it's gonna overtake all- it's gonna wipe everybody out eventually.2679.8492 
2259LES_int_012679.8492Right, right.2680.5736
2260LES_se0_ag3_m_022680.5736Um. So, those people that2682.2156
2261 2683.7331can't afford to live in those2685.0370
2263 2685.5155types of housing developments2687.0478 
2265 2687.5526um.2688.1761 
2267 2688.6985will be2690.0009 
2269 2690.2072you know, pushed out of the neighborhood.2691.8843 
2271 2692.0160[And eventually,] it's- it's we- it's not even gonna be like the2695.3599 
2273LES_se0_ag3_m_022695.5575well, not gonna be the Lower East Side that I knew.2697.4892
2275 2697.7438I knew.2698.2136 
2277LES_se0_ag3_m_022698.6000[You] know, it's not gonna be that.2699.7239
2279LES_se0_ag3_m_022700.3648Uh. They'll be people living here, and it will be just a boundary now, it'll be just a name.2704.3760
2281LES_se0_ag3_m_022704.8678[It] won't be, it won't have that2706.3473
2282 2706.4834same2707.0658
2284 2707.5970feeling, you know. Of- of2709.1512 
2286 2709.4277people together, that togetherness. It won't have that.2711.6317 
2288LES_se0_ag3_m_022711.8205[Doesn't have] that now,2712.9253
2289 2713.0131[so.]2713.2985
2291LES_se0_ag3_m_022713.8176<ts> And that's what's gonna happen.2714.9547
2293 2715.6615[Basically.]2716.4342 
2294LES_int_012715.7625[There's um.]2716.7547
2295 2717.1323There- there's a site. I'm not sure if you've seen it since I know you don't live around here right now, but, [um,] it's been2723.4045
2297LES_int_012723.7513a parking lot for about forty years. So, you may have seen it. Just south of Delancey Street.2728.4123
2299 2729.0621By the Williamsburg Bridge.2730.3835 
2301 2731.0362Just [where the Williamsburg Bridge]2733.0030 
2302LES_se0_ag3_m_022731.1942[South of Delancey Street.]2732.8625
2304LES_se0_ag3_m_022733.7362[Wha-] Now, what's the cross street then?2735.0269
2305LES_int_012735.2120Uh. Clinton,2736.0023
2307 2736.3930like Clinton and Delancey.2737.8681 
2309 2738.6891And it's right at the entrance of the Williamsburg Bridge. There's a big area of [parking lots.]2743.0076 
2310LES_se0_ag3_m_022742.1867[Okay. I think,] alright, [alright.]2743.8725
2311LES_int_012743.5125[Does] that sound familiar?2744.6233
2312LES_se0_ag3_m_022744.9346I think I know where that is.2746.1770
2314 2746.3834Yeah.2746.7082 
2315LES_int_012746.8619[One of the group]2747.5556
2316LES_se0_ag3_m_022747.1736[Because] it's a Rite Aid right down the block.2749.0044
2317LES_int_012748.9956Yeah! Exactly. Exactly right there.2750.6595
2319 2751.3341[Okay.]2751.6765
2320LES_int_012751.3341[One of the] groups that I work with is- is really interested in getting that land developed. So, I ask everyone that I interview2756.9712
2321 2757.1497[Um.]2757.8302
2323LES_int_012758.1068Like, what their personal opinion is, because i- if you've seen it,2761.3775
2325 2761.5049it's- it's actually2762.4883 
2327 2762.6507the biggest plot of land south of Ninety-Sixth Street2766.0561 
2329 2766.4995that's undeveloped. And, it's owned by the city.2768.2600 
2331LES_int_012768.9521[And] so, it's-2769.6721
2332 2769.7687it's a big space. And, so I ask everybody that I interview2772.7058
2334 2773.2722um,2774.0097 
2336 2774.2205like, if it were up to you,2775.4431 
2338 2775.7373what do you think2776.3783 
2340 2776.6680should get built there? Like what do you think the community could use or needs?2780.4107 
2342 2781.5566What would [you put] there?2782.3436 
2344 2784.5519I'd like to see some2785.3494
2346 2786.7762low income housing there. <laugh>2788.2338 
2348LES_se0_ag3_m_022788.8221And- and-2789.3402
2350 2789.4850and some more2790.9131 
2352 2791.0187like community center type thing going on there. I think we don't have enough of that.2794.2177 
2355 2794.7884[Like a Henry Street Settlement?]2796.0946 
2356LES_se0_ag3_m_022794.8806[I think it's yeah. Mm.] Yeah, like to see some of that go in there.2797.5785
2358LES_se0_ag3_m_022797.8876[A] place where kids could go.2798.9467
2360LES_se0_ag3_m_022799.8994Kids got no where to go now.2800.9180
2362LES_se0_ag3_m_022801.8092They got no where to go.2802.6477
2364LES_se0_ag3_m_022803.4029And I- I- I mean, I honestly me- I don't know everything now, cause, like I say, I don't live here anymore, [but.]2807.5747
2366LES_se0_ag3_m_022809.3088They got no where to go.2810.1298
2368 2811.3503Kids got nothing to do.2812.3293 
2370LES_se0_ag3_m_022813.3551We played in the street, we did all kind of things.2815.3747
2371LES_int_012817.0430[What di- what's your sense] of what kids are doing now?2819.1839
2373 2819.3551I don't know what the hell they're doing right now. <laugh>2821.1332
2375 2821.3264Some of them.2821.8225 
2376LES_int_012822.0903[Hang on the street corner.]2823.2888
2377LES_se0_ag3_m_022822.1869[I know my ki- i- my-] my- well, my kids are old, so.2824.6981
2378 2826.0444But,2826.3956
2380 2828.9771unless you-2830.0967 
2382 2831.1576I got- let's say, my parents-2832.5581 
2384 2834.2484they didn't-2834.5337 
2386 2834.7269we weren't as close as I am with my kids now.2836.7728 
2388 2836.8503Put it that way.2837.3595 
2390LES_se0_ag3_m_022837.7942Or my kids when I- when the- when they were growing up.2839.6293
2392LES_se0_ag3_m_022840.5864It was a little different. Parents were parents, kids were kids. You stayed in your place.2843.7108
2394 2844.0532It was none of that.2844.6678 
2396 2845.1113But,2845.5635 
2398 2845.9147because of that wasn't- that, you know, we didn't have that2848.6059 
2400 2849.5308bond2850.1586 
2402 2850.4000that maybe I have with my kids [now.]2852.1913 
2404LES_se0_ag3_m_022853.1088There were still other things for us to do.2854.4611
2406 2855.3683I bond with- th- I- with my2856.6986 
2408 2856.9576kids growing up, we2858.0464 
2410 2858.2088play together.2858.8498 
2412 2859.1132You know, we did things together.2860.2811 
2413LES_int_012860.2811Yeah, yeah.2861.0786
2416 2863.5064I didn't do that, growing up.2864.5864 
2418 2864.8191you know we didn't, you know, like I said, they went to work, you went to school, and2868.3517 
2420 2868.8566you did what we told you, and that was it, so.2870.8454 
2422 2870.9420Well, our- our alternative, would be now to go to these places.2874.3913 
2424 2874.9971You know what I'm saying?2875.7040 
2426LES_se0_ag3_m_022876.4723So, we had that.2877.2493
2428 2877.8640So, without that now, what are the kids gonna do? If- if I- I- like I say, I'm not saying I'm an exception,2883.4864 
2430LES_se0_ag3_m_022883.7630[But,] I'm close with my kids, you know what I'm saying? And we- we2886.4910
2431 2886.7017create things to do2887.9178
2433 2888.3027and stuff like [that.]2889.2422 
2435LES_se0_ag3_m_022890.0193So, if [without that,]2891.5822
2436LES_int_012890.6778[Are you still close to your] kids? [Do they live in the city?]2892.8071
2437LES_se0_ag3_m_022892.0607[Yeah, exactly. Yeah.]2893.0661
2438 2893.2988Yeah.2893.6237
2440 2894.1038My- [my.]2894.7712 
2441LES_int_012894.2767[Kids still live] with you?2895.2338
2442LES_se0_ag3_m_022895.2234No, well, my-2895.8292
2443 2895.9521my-2896.2463
2445 2896.4351they both live in the Bronx, they all- they're all [in the Bronx,] you know.2898.8360 
2446LES_int_012897.7735[Oh, cool.]2898.4672
2447 2899.3277Is that one reason [why /you moved up/?]2901.2375
2448LES_se0_ag3_m_022899.9818[Well, they lived in Manhattan too.] Then they ha- you know, they couldn't afford to live here, so that's where they could afford to live, and that's where they live now.2906.0152
2452 2907.7005you could see that whole thing happening, but.2909.2431 
2455 2910.7402[So,] community center you think's a2913.0489 
2457 2913.2289Yeah, [something for the]2914.2024
2458LES_int_012913.4192[would be a good thing for the neighborhood.]2914.9474
2459LES_se0_ag3_m_022914.3605[k- you can get people] together. You know, what I'm saying. And- and- and have things for them to do. Cause I don't know what the kids are doing now.2919.6354
2461LES_se0_ag3_m_022920.3027And- and- and- and I2921.5276
2463 2921.6379that's- I think that2922.5822 
2465 2922.8544you know, doesn't help2923.9081 
2467 2924.0047the crime situation, because when you don't got nothing to do,2926.4034 
2469 2926.9083you tend to do2927.6727 
2471 2927.8044silly things, [you know.]2928.9948 
2473 2929.3021[Yeah.]2929.6835
2474LES_se0_ag3_m_022929.4513[You got] nothing to do2930.2849
2476LES_se0_ag3_m_022931.1015and you got nobody teaching you what you should be doing.2933.3527
2478 2933.7171If you're not close with your parents, and you got no where to go, you're just gonna be running around2937.2524 
2480 2937.9943doing [crazy stuff.] Yeah, yeah, exactly. [Pretty much,] so.2940.6900 
2481LES_int_012938.3938[Getting into trouble.]2939.2236
2483 2939.7373[Right.]2940.0841 
2484 2941.0854And you said low income housing2942.9074
2486LES_int_012943.1752[/inaudible/ is in need of that too.]2944.7469
2487LES_se0_ag3_m_022943.9347[You could say, I mean,] it's a lot of homeless people too, you know, it's a lot of. I mean, I'm-2947.4338
2488 2948.9601There's a lot of that going on. And I think there's a lot of money out here,2951.9499
2490 2952.2001if we can afford to give sev- e- seven hundred mill- billion dollars to these things,2955.8759 
2492 2956.3324give a billion to l-2957.1710 
2494 2957.3905in- to- for these communities to do something. [You know what I'm saying?]2960.0894 
2496 2960.2914[Yeah.]2960.6338
2497LES_se0_ag3_m_022960.4450[It] wouldn't take that much to do that.2962.4514
2499LES_se0_ag3_m_022963.4681You know, but obviously, there's no money in that, so they don't do that.2965.8761
2501 2966.0210You know what I'm saying, so.2967.1801 
2503LES_se0_ag3_m_022967.9396And that's why that's not happening.2969.0734
2505 2969.4729But, I think that should happen.2970.7768 
2507LES_se0_ag3_m_022971.2592At some point, somebody should stop and say, hey, what about the2973.8626
2508 2974.4772common guy, the regular guy?2975.9803
2510LES_se0_ag3_m_022976.4282You know, who's money we're taking in taxes every week.2978.4696
2512 2978.5662You know what I'm saying? [Well you know.]2980.1291 
2514 2980.9852Um.2981.5461
2515LES_se0_ag3_m_022981.5461Did we [forget about him?]2982.5646
2516LES_int_012981.9148[Do y-]2982.2924
2517 2982.5646Do you have a take on- on like the height of buildings that get built in the neighborhood?2986.9330
2519 2987.3676Is that something that you [think]2988.8482 
2520LES_se0_ag3_m_022988.7604[No, never really.]2989.5989
2521LES_int_012989.0414[should be restricted?]2990.0863
2522 2990.7536Oh- [some people do.]2991.8232
2524LES_int_012991.9022It's like [a big issue.]2992.9032
2525LES_se0_ag3_m_022992.1378I mean.2992.5241
2526 2993.9349I n- doesn't matter to me.2995.3200
2527LES_int_012995.3200Doesn't matter [to you.]2996.2771
2529LES_int_012996.5493Th- like the- like some of the buildings that kind of stick out of the tenements or [something?]3000.2728
2530LES_se0_ag3_m_022999.9786[/?/ Nah, that doesn't bother me.]3001.3489
2531LES_int_013000.4835[Doesn't bother you.]3001.0455
2534 3001.9767That doesn't bother me at all.3003.0085 
2536LES_se0_ag3_m_023003.4650I mean, I'm ev-3004.0665
2537 3004.5149I mean, if you go <laugh> I was down in Georgia not too long ago,3007.3466
2539 3007.7198and you don't see any tall buildings down there. [You know,] that would3009.9879 
2541LES_se0_ag3_m_023010.1152Then you would see a giant building like that, and wou- that would maybe3012.7477
2543 3013.3571you know, stick out [like a sore] thumb, but.3015.2142 
2544LES_int_013013.8049[Stick out.]3014.4986
2545LES_se0_ag3_m_023015.3898And here, I'm used to. Wherever you go, you see tall buildings, [so that] wouldn't3018.2567
2547LES_se0_ag3_m_023018.4279it's not an issue for me.3019.2637
2548LES_int_013019.3866Right, right.3020.0363
2549LES_se0_ag3_m_023020.1241At all.3020.5061
2552 3021.7963Do you think that, cause there's a lot of new people moving into the neighborhood. Do you think that it's important for them to know about the history of the Lower East Side?3030.2591 
2554 3030.7734From the time that you lived there, or even before [what.]3033.3240 
2555LES_se0_ag3_m_023032.9650[I would] think3033.8449
2556 3034.0454you sh- a requirement would be before you moved here, you should read a book that would explain the whole thing.3038.9974
2558 3039.3611[And]3040.0094 
2559LES_int_013039.8154[Yeah, because it's3041.0418
2560LES_se0_ag3_m_023040.1806[the importance of] what happened here [early on.]3042.9209
2561LES_int_013041.9557[it's such a fascinating3043.6157
2562 3044.0874neighborhood. And it has such a long history.3046.1858
2564 3046.4049And there's so many groups that have come and come here and [immigrated and lived here. All that kind of stuff.]3052.0253 
2565LES_se0_ag3_m_023049.8524[Yeah. Exactly, exactly.]3051.2373
2567 3051.3772[Exactly.]3051.9974 
2568 3052.2678And I think cause people, you just moving here, I'm just moving here I- just cause I'm so I can be close to where I work in Midtown.3057.6988
2570LES_se0_ag3_m_023058.1184And that's the only reason you m- you live here.3060.4722
2572LES_se0_ag3_m_023060.8639[And] maybe I got a good deal on an apartment, or [something] like that, and you know.3064.8499
2574LES_se0_ag3_m_023065.1437I think3065.6100
2576 3066.1089i- i- that3066.6301 
2578 3066.7793and that wouldn't just hold true for the Lower East Side. That should hold true for-3069.4920 
2580 3069.7811for any neighborhood.3070.5690 
2582 3070.7369You know.3071.0959 
2584 3071.7720You know.3072.1124 
2585LES_int_013072.1124Learning a [little bit about the place where you live.]3074.3273
2586LES_se0_ag3_m_023072.6113[Yeah. Exactly.]3074.2574
2587 3074.3599Exactly. You know.3075.3298
2589 3075.5350And, but there's definitely a lot of history here on the Lower East Side, [obviously.]3078.2900 
2590LES_int_013077.7258[There is.] And I- and a lot of it is a history of3080.7474
2591 3080.8406people kind of coming here to start3082.9356
2593 3083.1641over, [start fresh.]3084.7316 
2594LES_se0_ag3_m_023083.6952[Right. Right. Exactly.]3084.9274
2595LES_int_013085.1420And it sounds like maybe your parents even felt-3087.0631
2596LES_se0_ag3_m_023087.8418And I think that was one of the reasons why they mo-3089.5424
2598 3090.6941why they moved here. Because you know, they lived in the Harlem, which was not that far away. Still in Manhattan.3094.3838 
2600LES_se0_ag3_m_023095.2465Where you figured this would be a whole nother thing. A nicer place for the kids to grow [up, you know.]3099.2838
2602LES_se0_ag3_m_023099.7361And that kind of thing that could, you know.3101.4220
2604 3101.6179See another side of what's happening, [you know.]3103.6509 
2606LES_se0_ag3_m_023103.9214That's probably was one of, some of their3105.8891
2608 3106.1083reasoning as to why we should3107.6901 
2610 3108.1056you know,3108.4460 
2612 3108.6365move here.3109.1662 
2614 3109.2847[And.]3109.4712 
2616LES_se0_ag3_m_023109.9235[I don't know.]3110.4131
2617LES_int_013109.9235[Do you think that]3110.5716
2618 3110.7069this is a neighborhood where3111.7929
2620 3112.2965people can still do that?3113.3690 
2622 3113.4949Come here to sort of start3114.5944 
2624 3115.1539over, start fresh, [build a new] life?3117.1410 
2626 3117.7149I don't look at it like that now. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't- it doesn't3120.9183
2628 3121.5431ha- you know doesn't look like it has that same effect. [You know, it doesn't]3124.7148 
2630LES_se0_ag3_m_023125.8432look like that's what you come here for. Is you come here, Lower East Side because it's close to Midtown and I work there. You know [what I'm saying, or.]3132.1268
2632LES_se0_ag3_m_023132.4066[I mean,] you see businesses starting up, you see little things going on.3135.9083
2634 3136.0482Yeah.3136.4197
2637 3137.8061But, it's a lot of housing things go-3139.3064 
2639 3139.5022built3139.7680 
2641 3140.1364you know,3140.4441 
2643 3140.6959that- that was down here. You don't see businesses down here. Obviously, it's just3143.8107 
2645 3143.9413[but people] reside here.3145.2131 
2649 3146.4488l- most of the housing being built here is not for the people that3149.8107 
2651 3150.1605kind of, you know, started living here.3152.0795 
2653 3152.2474way back then, [so.]3153.5110 
2657 3154.9286It's not the same.3155.7571 
2659 3155.9716[You know, it's-] it's just not the same.3157.8647 
2660LES_int_013155.9716[Right, right.]3156.6617