LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1LES_int_010.8188Okay.1.1980
3 1.5712So, its, um, <ts>2.9454 
5 3.4634Thursday, December fourth,5.0747 
7 6.0098And I'm /RD-NAME-4/, and I'm talking to /RD-NAME-5/.9.0156 
9 9.8454And /RD-NAME-2/, uh, you said you, w- you had something you wanted to start12.5586 
11 12.9800off with by saying.13.9371 
12LES_se0_ag4_f_0115.0087Many people have asked me16.5234
14 16.7385through the years17.5595 
16 18.2190/RD-NAME-2/,18.6931 
18 19.3034why do you live on the Lower East Side?21.2351 
20 23.8166What is25.2726 
22 25.8390holding you here?26.7083 
24 27.3712Because originally,28.3634 
26 29.5093you came from Harlem,30.5263 
28 31.8434where you spent thirty-six years of your life.33.6346 
29LES_int_0134.0341<ts> You were born in Harlem?35.2063
30LES_se0_ag4_f_0135.2063I was born and raised in Harlem.36.7546
31LES_int_0137.1146May I ask in what year?38.2023
32LES_se0_ag4_f_0138.6150No.38.9794
33LES_int_0139.2237[<laugh>]40.3169
34LES_se0_ag4_f_0140.1018[But.]40.4881
35LES_int_0141.0984[What] decade?42.1872
36LES_se0_ag4_f_0141.2125[This]41.6032
37 42.5735But.43.0740
39 43.5877This44.4086 
41 45.4096little piece that I'm about to give you,47.2081 
43 47.5374will give you an [indication]48.7623 
44LES_int_0148.4681[Hm.]48.7623
45 48.9203Mkay.49.2013
46LES_se0_ag4_f_0149.3506of all of that.50.0443
47LES_int_0150.2901Okay.50.6018
48LES_se0_ag4_f_0151.0935See, I tell- I answer people, I live on the Lower East Side because I realized it's a very special place.56.2374
50 56.8608And what makes it so special is that is has lessons for its residents to learn.60.8589 
52 61.3286Providing they're paying attention62.7643 
53LES_int_0163.0496Mm-hm.63.4799
54LES_se0_ag4_f_0163.6291and able to absorb64.8020
56 66.0884what the-66.7250 
58 66.8874this special neighborhood67.9982 
60 68.8060has to give them.69.5962 
62 70.8474And71.4386 
64 71.9611see, we are people of doers. We're always doing, doing, doing, and we never stop to think, how do we get from point A to point B?78.0806 
66 79.0245Well, now I'm'a take you on a journey.80.5122 
67LES_int_0180.7317Mkay.81.1883
68LES_se0_ag4_f_0181.6449And my journey is that82.9137
70 83.8181many years ago,84.8673 
72 85.3591about twenty-four,86.3469 
74 87.8088I was an African American woman89.4248 
76 89.9341living90.4522 
78 90.9439in Harlem.91.5102 
80 92.4350A mother, a single parent,93.6599 
82 93.8136of two94.5029 
84 95.0956young men.95.7190 
86 97.0975Eight97.3126 
88 97.6375and97.8527 
90 98.1468ten.98.5228 
92 100.2658or maybe seven and six. I don't remember.102.2282 
94 102.3292Anyway.102.8297 
95LES_int_01103.0097Mm-hm.103.4268
96LES_se0_ag4_f_01103.8966Uh.104.2858
98 104.4175One of them is neurologically disabled106.4238 
100 107.0912he doesn't speak, he's suffering from autism and retardation.110.3136 
102 110.8872And the other one was so called, normal.112.3404 
104 112.6785Pain in the ass.113.2799 
106 113.8243[Anyway.]114.4961 
107LES_int_01113.9648[<laugh>]115.0712
108LES_se0_ag4_f_01115.4707Anyway.115.9361
110 116.0370Uh.116.4175 
112 117.5677And I thought my life was pretty good.119.2580 
114 119.6268I mean, I was in college, at /RD-SCHOOL-2/,121.4619 
116 122.4526I was ha- a- I had my boys in school,124.8365 
118 125.8199I had my grants all lined up, and everything was fine. I was doing well in school too.129.6468 
119LES_int_01129.7653Mm-hm.130.1209
120LES_se0_ag4_f_01131.1790Til one day, uh,132.5663
122 133.6024I realized that134.7380 
124 135.2385some junkies had moved into my building137.1702 
126 137.3414in Harlem.137.8507 
128 138.9922And uh.139.5585 
130 139.7122They weren't your average junkies, they were very social.142.2614 
132 143.0736Next thing I knew, that they had robbed my apartment and took everything out of it.146.3488 
134 147.2472And they came in from the ceiling.148.6434 
135LES_int_01149.8024From the ceiling?150.5356
136LES_se0_ag4_f_01150.6278From the ceiling.151.4286
138 151.5998And151.9423 
140 152.0608the cops came to my house, and said this was the fist burglary154.8480 
142 155.3310of this nature, where they could look up and see a hole.157.3286 
144 159.2368And at that time, I di- wasn't wise enough to know the hold the landlord accountable.163.2349 
146 164.0339And.164.7495 
148 166.6929T- keep the police involved168.6817 
150 169.3227and get what I could to stay in school.171.2588 
152 171.3642[Of course, I] had to drop out because I had to stay home173.8914 
153LES_int_01171.3766[Right.]171.7193
154LES_se0_ag4_f_01174.1724to make sure the hole in my ceiling got fixed.176.4554
156 179.0134And then,179.6368 
158 179.9968to make matters worse,181.1339 
160 181.5817there was a fire.182.4905 
162 183.5178Because of the184.3724 
164 184.4602junkies had owed the man185.8519 
166 186.6114and she was um,187.5071 
168 188.6002receiving her product from- for sale190.5304 
170 192.0583some money192.6246 
172 192.9012and he told her, he was gonna kill her.194.3324 
174 195.4037So, what he did, he blocked her196.9563 
176 197.6939door198.1241 
178 198.8266and her fire escape, and set her apartment on fire.201.3115 
179LES_int_01201.6364Was she [inside?]202.6446
180LES_se0_ag4_f_01202.5041[While] she and her203.6148
181 204.3656cousin204.8397
183 205.7573and her children slept.207.0612 
184LES_int_01207.2851[Oh] God.208.2407
185LES_se0_ag4_f_01207.3817[Su.]207.5398
187 208.0739[Supposedly.]208.9519 
188 209.7773And, unfortunately, I lived on the fourth floor, and she lived on the- on the second,213.2281
190 213.5442and fire burns up.214.4953 
192 216.5368Not down.217.0724 
194 218.3500The only thing saved her, is that her cousin was on the toilet bowl and smelt the smoke.221.5719 
196 222.6153And then when he got everybody out, and they tried to get out, they found out they were blocked.226.1012 
198 227.5631It was a mess.228.2876 
199LES_int_01228.8013Were they killed?229.6530
200LES_se0_ag4_f_01229.8682No.230.2150
202 230.7243But, uh, they barely got out with [their lives.]232.7218 
203LES_int_01232.3970[Oh] God.233.3936
204LES_se0_ag4_f_01233.9819Cause the firemen, you know235.0428
206 235.2842everyone had to236.4652 
208 238.3267get there and move stuff before they could even get them out.241.0871 
210 242.5443And that took time, and you know, in a fire, every minute is-244.9765 
212 245.1960is245.5252 
214 245.6174precious.246.2189 
215LES_int_01246.4209Yeah.247.0048
216LES_se0_ag4_f_01247.2638But, it left me homeless248.7960
218 249.2043with my two kids, and instead of going into a shelter252.3023 
220 253.0662a welfare shelter,254.2165 
222 254.5458at that time,255.1604 
224 255.2921wi- wi- which was offered to me,257.3057 
226 258.1092I couldn't see having my autistic, retarded son in one, or my other son in one.262.1028 
228 262.6208So, I decided to um,264.2628 
230 266.7802Ask my ex-mother-in-law, who loved me dearly,268.7559 
232 270.8852to take care of my kids while I hit the streets of New York where I-274.6329 
234 275.3442Where I stayed homeless for seven months.277.6271 
235LES_int_01277.9388Wow.278.5183
236LES_se0_ag4_f_01278.9295I slept on park benches, and abandoned buildings.281.4671
237LES_int_01283.3461Wow.283.6447
238LES_se0_ag4_f_01284.9420Well, anyway,285.4337
240 286.3864in nineteen eighty-four, I moved into this brand new building289.8620 
242 290.4810on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.292.3952 
244 294.1278/RD-ADDRESS-5/295.3747 
246 296.8410And um.297.8288 
248 300.4351I thought it was gonna be a new beginning.301.8795 
250 303.4118New folks,304.5005 
252 304.9308new neighborhood,305.9478 
254 306.6283new everything.307.3659 
255LES_int_01307.7083Yeah.308.0464
256LES_se0_ag4_f_01308.3537And I didn't308.9288
258 309.2713like309.6444 
260 310.4127I didn't like certain aspects of living here.312.6459 
262 313.1069But like I told you, in the beginning, I ha- this was a very special place, but I didn't know that then.317.3610 
264 317.7167Nor did I appreciate it.319.0673 
265LES_int_01319.2430[Yeah.]319.7873
266LES_se0_ag4_f_01319.5547[I] didn't, I wasn't used to living around different people of different cultures and different races.323.6201
267 324.3034And all of them looking down at me.325.7215
268LES_int_01327.0122Because in Harlem,328.0719
270 328.2196it was primarily [African American.]329.9773 
271LES_se0_ag4_f_01328.9632[/-Ly/ Black American.] Yeah.330.3856
272LES_int_01330.8071<ts> And now you're living in a place [where there's]333.0051
273LES_se0_ag4_f_01332.2384[Where-]332.5220
274 333.5188Everything.334.1685
275LES_int_01334.2827everybody.335.0641
276LES_se0_ag4_f_01335.4066And that was a shock.336.7895
277LES_int_01337.2329[Yeah.]337.6792
278LES_se0_ag4_f_01337.3647[And it] was difficult.338.4519
279 338.6495I didn't like-339.2817
281 339.4485I used to be here340.2914 
283 340.7085Monday through Friday and every weekend, I would go to Harlem.343.1056 
285 344.7592I did that for a while.345.9051 
287 346.6383Til one day that347.6700 
289 347.7666I noticed, that they were bringing out a um,350.3246 
291 350.9129one of our neighbors.351.9314 
293 352.0149The police was bringing him out in a stretcher.353.8720 
295 354.2627He was a paraplegic.355.4788 
297 356.1929And they brought out his heroin,357.7602 
299 358.3178his cocaine,359.2793 
301 359.8017his crack,360.6578 
303 361.2505and his guns.362.3246 
305 363.9622And I said,364.3924 
307 364.5768Oh my God.365.8763 
309 367.2198Here we go again.368.2105 
310LES_int_01368.6363Mm-hm.369.2422
311LES_se0_ag4_f_01369.2422And I said, no.370.4671
312 371.1300They got him.371.7051
314 373.0442So, I- I don't have to worry.374.4168 
316 376.3441Alright?376.7744 
317LES_int_01377.2705Yeah.377.7051
318LES_se0_ag4_f_01377.9334Well, they got him, lasted two months.379.7247
320 380.2983And he was right back home.381.5100 
321LES_int_01382.2124He was paraplegic?383.2529
322LES_se0_ag4_f_01383.3188Yes, he was paralyzed from the waist down.385.2286
323LES_int_01385.2286Waist down. Okay.386.2851
324LES_se0_ag4_f_01386.8119He was not quadra. Para.388.1334
326 388.5856It's a difference.389.2529 
328 389.4944You know, he had [arms, one leg,] this, that,391.2681 
329LES_int_01390.0599[Mm-hm.]390.8614
330LES_se0_ag4_f_01392.0918yeah. Uh-huh.392.9259
332 393.1586And um,393.8216 
334 394.4786<ts>394.5839 
336 395.2381I thought395.7474 
338 396.0635that the police had taken care of the problem.397.9293 
340 398.7064Two months later, the problem was back400.3967 
342 400.7200in the building,401.3830 
344 401.8088upstairs in his apartment.403.1084 
346 404.6537Angry,405.1674 
348 406.2606and he's determined to sell even more drugs than he did before.409.0746 
350 411.6413When I saw that happening,413.0199 
352 413.6214and the traffic in here,414.7936 
354 415.3687that I didn't noticed before, because like416.9696 
356 417.1145I didn't really wanna live here.418.4360 
358 418.8882And also, I was mostly in and out.420.4336 
359LES_int_01420.5302Yeah.420.9911
360LES_se0_ag4_f_01421.0877This time, I stayed422.4707
362 422.6228home a lot more,423.7950 
364 424.3043and I paid attention.425.3140 
366 426.0428And since I knew what427.3468 
368 427.6497t- what to look for, because I had just been through that.429.4613 
370 432.0999Here it is. Same pattern again.433.7726 
372 434.3390We had traffic435.3999 
374 435.7950in here that you wouldn't believe.437.2570 
375LES_int_01437.6477[Mm-hm.]437.8409
376LES_se0_ag4_f_01437.7706[Twenty-four]438.3765
377 438.5345a- almost- almost twenty-four hours a day.440.7346
379 441.6566Almost seven days a week.443.2063 
381 443.6454And they used to come and pay off the guard. He told 'em445.8785 
383 446.3439each customer give the guard one or two dollars, and he'll let you up.449.4654 
385 450.3243And you add it up. If you had a hundred and seventy-four452.7302 
387 454.3941customers,455.1756 
389 455.5692in a-455.8107 
391 456.0082in a-456.3156 
393 456.3814in a three hour period,457.6590 
394LES_int_01457.7775Oh gosh.458.5458
395LES_se0_ag4_f_01458.5458you making good money and you a security guard.460.7366
396 461.8386I462.1136
397LES_int_01462.2936You're happy to help.463.2770
398LES_se0_ag4_f_01463.4000Yes.464.1551
400 464.7214Uh.464.9849 
402 465.9200That's what what was going on here. And, we had, in the evenings, the prostitutes would bring their Johns over here.471.8238 
404 472.6536See.472.9345 
406 473.7907And they would give [th-]474.9438 
407LES_int_01474.8033[This] was in the eighties?475.9184
408LES_se0_ag4_f_01476.4848Eighty-477.3804
410 477.5428five, eighty-six,479.3165 
412 479.4658eighty-seven.480.2385 
414 481.2116eighty-eight.481.7077 
415LES_int_01481.9711Yeah.482.2609
416LES_se0_ag4_f_01482.3399Um, I'll give them that.483.5033
417LES_int_01483.5033Yeah.483.9160
418LES_se0_ag4_f_01484.0740This was in the [eighties.]485.2490
419LES_int_01485.1919[Yeah.]485.4509
420LES_se0_ag4_f_01486.1402Okay, late486.8339
422 486.9700middle to late eighties.488.2871 
423LES_int_01488.3310Mm-hm.488.7246
424LES_se0_ag4_f_01488.8124<ts> Okay?489.3041
425LES_int_01489.5499Mm-hm.489.9319
426LES_se0_ag4_f_01490.7090And it's in the article that you dug up on the [internet.]492.9700
427LES_int_01492.8690[Yeah.]493.1368
428LES_se0_ag4_f_01493.8744And494.3266
430 495.4992they would commit sex acts in the comu- in the compactor room, and if you was to open the door, they would ask you what they fuck you looking at.501.3998 
432 502.3597There was a naked woman running on the sixth floor.504.3968 
434 505.0070This building was turned into chaos like you never seen chaos.508.5309 
436 508.9787There were people jumping out the window because they were ODing,511.6744 
438 512.1485The /more/ wagon used to be parked on the outs- on the- in the parking lot.515.7646 
440 516.3573And the- and the immigration truck was parked in the- in the front.518.8817 
442 519.1890So, everyday, somebody would be asking you, do you know this person?521.7959 
444 522.5730And you say, look man, they all look alike to me.524.3285 
446 525.3471I mean,525.7159 
448 526.1724I mean, it was a nonstop527.8480 
450 527.9665circus. They was death around, young people were dropping dead around and in this building,532.1812 
452 532.8470like crazy.533.6548 
454 534.3134And I mean people thirty and under.535.9992 
456 539.0490And539.6856 
458 539.8831the traffic,540.7831 
460 541.2573And the542.2846 
462 543.0968ODing.543.9441 
464 544.5090And the crack rows,546.3222 
466 546.3968and the needles.547.8675 
468 549.0090Ugh.549.6324 
469LES_int_01550.0802Yeah.550.4710
470LES_se0_ag4_f_01550.6582So I551.2553
472 551.4880finally g-552.0500 
474 552.5153got mad.553.4066 
476 554.0958And uh554.7324 
478 554.8334went down to management and said, um556.6758 
480 556.8865well um,557.7366 
482 558.2810what are we gonna do about this?559.6898 
484 559.7765He said,560.2259 
486 560.7264you gonna call561.6440 
488 561.8547/RD-NAME-4/ from the assistance committee for New York City.564.4786 
490 566.3576So, you see,566.9239 
492 567.2357the first thing I had to learn568.9435 
494 570.3999first lesson this special place had for me is572.4370 
496 572.9287how do you live with people574.3643 
498 575.3609of575.7121 
500 576.4131different races,577.3570 
502 577.9277different creeds,578.7619 
504 578.9463different colors579.7409 
506 582.7731in583.1550 
508 583.2911one s-583.9233 
510 584.1736compact area585.1965 
512 585.7409on a day to day basis?586.9702 
513LES_int_01587.1282Yeah.587.4795
514LES_se0_ag4_f_01588.2550Mkay, that was the first lesson.589.4053
515LES_int_01589.5589[Mm-hm.]589.9943
516LES_se0_ag4_f_01589.8575[The] second lesson this590.7267
517 590.9287beautiful place had for me to learn is that592.8648
519 593.6595there are people here, if you wish to595.5677 
521 596.1867change conditions in your apartment,598.0965 
523 598.2985in your neighborhood,599.1151 
525 599.2292that will help you.599.9448 
527 602.4326Now, who would expect603.2799 
529 603.5477a nun604.0570 
531 604.5575in a manager's office605.9141 
533 606.3340telling me to call the citizen's committee for New York City?608.8266 
535 610.0954and that- that- that they had someone there that could help me.612.4998 
536LES_int_01612.7895Mm-hm.613.2944
538 613.5008Mm-hm.613.8651 
539LES_se0_ag4_f_01613.9134Cause I was angry enough to do something about it, but I thought she was gonna do it.617.3554
541 617.7506And she told me no.618.5832 
543 619.9398That's the lesson.620.6554 
545 620.9013That was the lesson right there,622.0164 
547 622.8110Any time you want623.9362 
549 624.0591to create change625.5869 
551 626.1313in your building,626.9742 
552LES_int_01627.1499Yeah.627.3694
553LES_se0_ag4_f_01627.3694in your neighborhood,628.4055
554 629.1826The first person that has to change is the people that live there.632.6306
555LES_int_01633.7996Mm-hm.634.2386
556LES_se0_ag4_f_01634.2386They are the primary stakeholders.636.0371
557 636.3489They are the ones that are going to initiate the change and make sure the change stays change.641.1035
559 641.6567And make sure the change continues,643.4672 
561 644.1389because they live there, they're the primary stakeholders.646.6677 
563 646.9399Everybody else that comes into play, that they will bring in,649.4703 
565 649.8913to help them,650.5235 
567 651.0504will just be actors.652.0953 
568LES_int_01652.4274Yeah.652.7786
569LES_se0_ag4_f_01653.5820Who will go home to someplace else.655.2065
571 657.4323I didn't-658.0953 
573 658.5284I didn't know none of that- I didn't know any of this at the time.660.8201 
574LES_int_01660.8201Yeah.661.2416
575LES_se0_ag4_f_01661.6235Trust me.662.1240
577 663.0460I mean, I was one scared664.7611 
579 664.8972fool.665.2264 
581 666.1264So, the666.9211 
583 667.9704workers at Pueblo Nuevo that was the agency that sponsored this building, said that they would help me, so we formed a little committee.673.1933 
584LES_int_01673.5928<ts>673.7421
586 673.8913Is this um, a NYCHA building?675.5860 
587LES_se0_ag4_f_01675.6738No.675.9767
589 676.5724This is a privately owned677.9422 
590LES_int_01678.1837Mm-hm.678.4427
591LES_se0_ag4_f_01679.1495Section Eight [based project.]680.5720
592LES_int_01680.2734[Section Eight.]680.8409
593LES_se0_ag4_f_01681.1471Which means681.9769
595 682.6530according to the law,683.6161 
596LES_int_01683.8136Yeah.684.1078
597LES_se0_ag4_f_01684.1078HUD,684.5161
598 685.0780the685.6224
600 685.9265management686.7958 
602 687.6475o- owner688.2841 
604 689.2852and689.8560 
606 690.4185a financial institution got together692.3766 
608 692.8024create a contract693.8326 
610 694.0785and put this building up.694.9477 
612 695.1848Specifically for low and moderate income people.697.3975 
613LES_int_01697.3975Got it.697.8366
614LES_se0_ag4_f_01698.6828Mkay.699.1218
615LES_int_01699.1833Yeah.699.4774
616LES_se0_ag4_f_01700.1959Now.700.4418
618 701.2276So.701.5876 
620 702.4174I was-703.5808 
622 703.7257I was trained704.4150 
624 705.1262how to be an anti-drug organizer707.2013 
626 707.3242by the citizens committee.708.3735 
628 708.8784And709.3789 
630 710.1472I was so afraid I did not711.7233 
632 711.9588I would not712.4286 
634 712.6086have713.1925 
636 714.7115I would not be able to learn enough716.3755 
638 716.6477fast enough that either I would get killed, or I would be homeless again.719.5042 
640 720.5535So I learned as much as I could as fast as I could.722.9945 
642 723.6223And I was able to organize725.0564 
644 725.2232the police725.9652 
646 726.5754and some other resources to get this man put-729.0472 
648 729.4247arrested.730.0247 
650 731.1354and put in jail.731.9213 
652 733.0891And the other three that came behind him.734.8540 
654 735.7939See, when the group of people in here saw that I could do it safely,738.7134 
656 740.1124then they were willing to work with me to get the other two out.742.7290 
657LES_int_01742.7290Right.743.1856
658LES_se0_ag4_f_01743.7695So, we had a committee of thirty.745.0603
659LES_int_01745.7085And how were you able to do it safely?747.4734
660LES_se0_ag4_f_01748.1539Well, number one749.0758
662 749.6290at that time, we had community policing,751.3560 
664 752.4229and God sent me753.7707 
666 753.8409the most perfect police officer.755.4594 
667LES_int_01756.1882This guy?756.9632
668LES_se0_ag4_f_01757.6809[/RD-NAME-4/]758.9322
669LES_int_01758.7478[/RD-NAME-1/]759.3931
670LES_se0_ag4_f_01759.9316/RD-NAME-1/ was a very unusual police officer. One, he wasn't racist.763.3517
672 764.2473Two, he didn't believe in Rambo way.765.9755 
673LES_int_01766.5918[<laugh>]767.3382
674LES_se0_ag4_f_01767.2416[No,] that you have to always use769.7337
675 769.8523force.770.2738
676LES_int_01770.2738Force.770.7523
677LES_se0_ag4_f_01771.3230Or be abusive772.4338
679 772.7367to the community to get773.9967 
681 774.2850law and order.774.9962 
683 775.8303He developed776.4538 
685 777.2440through777.7489 
687 777.8323the community policing unit779.2460 
689 779.3250some strategies780.2674 
691 780.6318in which781.3254 
693 781.8084to starve the de-782.9235 
695 783.0860th-783.4240 
697 783.5382to starve784.4118 
699 784.7938the dealer785.5357 
701 786.4781from786.9215 
703 787.2772his profit.787.9357 
705 788.5459What he would do is three very simple steps.791.0572 
707 791.5094One, he would do a vertical,792.6937 
709 793.3303a lot of times a day.794.3444 
711 795.3483People don't like to buy where the cops are.797.1790 
712LES_int_01798.7332What's a- what's a vertical?799.9317
714 800.0283I can pause it. Yeah.801.0585 
716 801.2078Go ahead.801.6736