Line	Speaker	St Time	Content	En Time
1	LES_int_01	0.5873	Okay, so we're recording and I'm /RD-NAME-4/. And I'm talking to /RD-NAME-4/	4.7414
3		5.0398	It's January fifteenth, two thousand nine.	7.5249
5		7.9570	Um, so /RD-NAME-2/ I think I told you, I'm	10.3402
7		10.6845	interested in your life	11.6612
9		11.9203	s- history.	12.7270
11		12.9738	So I normally start at the beginning, would you mind telling me when and where you were born?	17.5151
12	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	17.5771	Okay. Um, I was born November	19.9112
14		20.3821	twenty-fourth, nineteen fifty-seven.	22.8063
16		23.1366	So I'm fifty-one years old.	24.5072
17	LES_int_01	24.9039	[But you don't look it,] by the way.	26.2188
18	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	25.0018	[And-]	25.6143
19		26.3896	thank you, I wanted that [to go on the tape. <laugh>]	29.7993
20	LES_int_01	27.5427	[<laugh> Seriously, though.]	28.8667
22		29.5988	[Seriously.]	30.4841
23	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	30.1584	[Thank you.]	30.7406
24	LES_int_01	30.6380	[<laugh> You're welcome.]	31.5565
25	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	31.2749	[Um,] I was born in Brooklyn.	32.8762
26		33.0941	[So I tell] people that I'm a native [Manhattanite.]	36.1255
27	LES_int_01	33.1827	[Oh, you were?]	33.9427
29		36.0364	[Uh-oh.]	36.5399
30	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	36.6192	Um, but I ws born in [Brooklyn. I have to confess- the first secret coming out. So there are] few people who know that.	42.6890
31	LES_int_01	38.2360	[Okay, the- the first secret coming out. <laugh>]	41.6679
32	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	43.0877	But, um, my family never lived-	45.2390
34		45.3876	well, I never lived in Brooklyn other that the time I spent at the hospital, [so at-] whatever time that, you know, however they kept you-	51.9003
35	LES_int_01	48.8701	[Oh, okay.]	49.7840
36	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	52.3806	long they kept you at that-	53.3738
38		53.5897	at that time, um,	55.1945
40		55.7768	in the hospital, that was my length of my residency in [Brooklyn.]	59.4576
41	LES_int_01	58.8188	[You just happened] to be born	60.2503
42	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	60.2618	Yes, in [Brooklyn.]	61.2802
43	LES_int_01	61.2202	[there.]	61.8399
44	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	61.4272	[Well what] happened was my parents	63.1236
45		63.3499	lived in Brooklyn. They lived in downtown Brooklyn, I don't remember the street,	67.1086
47		67.6304	um,	68.4364
49		68.8603	but they-	70.5323
51		71.4751	I already had a sister, um, /RD-NAME-5/.	74.8793
53		75.0052	[/RD-NAME-5/.]	76.0637
54	LES_int_01	75.0192	[Okay.]	75.4249
55	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	76.1569	And we all called her /RD-NAME-2/.	77.8328
57		78.3697	Um, who was two years old and they needed a, I guess, a bigger place. They never told me why they moved, but they needed a bigger place.	84.4092
59		84.7997	So they moved to the projects.	86.5336
61		86.7807	Um,	87.3960
62	LES_int_01	87.3960	[Mm-hm.]	87.8038
63	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	87.6991	[<ts>]	87.7876
64		87.9377	a- Jacob Riis Projects, [and- and while] my mother was in the hospital, [my father] moved.	92.4639
65	LES_int_01	89.3677	[Okay.]	89.8527
67		91.5453	[Yeah.]	91.8181
68		92.8183	Ah.	93.5889
69	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	93.5889	Now, one of the questions I now have is where was my sister in all of [this?]	97.2321
70	LES_int_01	96.8224	[<laugh> Right.]	97.9574
71	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	97.7037	[So] I- I guess staying with some random aunt or, you know, under-	101.7855
72		101.9650	uncle, or d- family member.	103.8148
73	LES_int_01	104.0573	[Okay.]	104.5376
74	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	104.2811	[Um,] just by way of background, my [parents]	107.3477
75	LES_int_01	107.2328	[Yeah.]	107.6667
76	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	107.7291	Um,	108.2806
78		108.5834	<ts> my father is from Georgia, from Vidalia, where the onions come from. [And my mother] is from,	113.9321
79	LES_int_01	112.2954	[Oh.]	112.8596
80	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	114.2393	<ts> um, the northern part of Florida, from Monticello. Both very small [towns.]	119.6589
81	LES_int_01	119.5029	[Wow.]	119.9802
82	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	120.0892	And they moved	121.0715
84		121.3691	north, I guess in the thirties,	123.1204
86		123.5910	um, and the forties- thirties or the forties, I'm not sure when.	127.1407
88		127.6195	Um, as part of the migration of [blacks to the north] looking for better [opportunities.]	132.5002
89	LES_int_01	129.8001	[Right.]	130.3363
91		132.3553	[Right, right.]	133.1154
92	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	133.0311	[Um,]	133.7176
93		134.3842	so- and they met here.	135.6012
95		135.8472	They met in New York [and], um, I think in church.	138.9639
96	LES_int_01	136.9097	[Interesting.]	137.4926
97	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	139.5680	[And, uh,]	140.9386
98	LES_int_01	140.0052	[Okay.]	140.5422
99	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	141.1843	not I think, I know in church. And	143.3426
101		143.4358	got married and had a son,	145.5582
103		146.0009	who died,	146.7575
104	LES_int_01	146.7875	[Aw.]	147.3620
105	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	147.2594	[um,] right after birth. And then my sister was born	151.0254
106	LES_int_01	151.0254	Yeah.	151.5020
107	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	151.5777	and then I came along, like two and a half years later, and they wanted to move,	155.2497
109		155.8033	um, I guess to a larger space.	157.2496
111		157.6340	Now, at that time when I was growing up the projects I guess were fairly new. I don't remember the entire history I think they were [built in the forties.]	164.5671
112	LES_int_01	163.2038	[I think they were. Yeah,] yeah.	165.0149
113	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	165.2310	Um, <ts> and	166.5447
115		166.6566	they were considered when they, I think just based on they history	169.7808
117		170.4393	they were not considered to be t- a- permanent housing.	173.6690
119		174.2467	They were supposed to [be temporary] housing.	176.0225
120	LES_int_01	174.9546	[Huh.]	175.3015
121		176.0225	[Oh, okay.]	177.0669
122	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	176.3628	[You know, you stay-] you- you moved into the projects	179.0580
123		179.1652	to save enough money to get your Archie Bunker,	182.4047
125		182.8577	you know, house out in Queens.	184.2838
126	LES_int_01	184.2838	[Right. <laugh>]	185.7760
127	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	184.8453	[So,]	185.7243
128		186.0265	[when I-]	186.5534
129	LES_int_01	186.0265	[It was a stepping] stone.	187.0663
130	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	187.0663	It was a stepping stone. [So when I] moved-	188.7976
131	LES_int_01	188.0082	[Yeah.]	188.4160
132	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	188.9035	when we moved in,	190.3642
134		190.8386	um, everybody lived in the projects.	193.0880
136		193.4846	So	194.3478
138		194.4457	our neighbors, you know, b- I'd sometimes look at then and now.	198.2238
140		198.5906	Now, the projects have become	200.3774
142		200.7008	<ts> a place of despair,	202.1441
144		202.3052	<laugh> and [scary,]	203.6304
145	LES_int_01	202.8610	[Mm.]	203.5651
146	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	203.9528	and very violent.	205.0259
148		205.4997	Um,	206.0419
150		206.5519	ins- in- I think that	207.8816
152		208.1754	when I was there was kind of a transition period, because now it's become- uh- n- then	213.4876
154		213.9817	everybody lived there,	214.9767
156		215.0886	you know, there were Italians, there were Jews, there were Blacks, there were [Whites, there were Hispanics]	219.1978
157	LES_int_01	218.2826	[Oh really? It] was like, really [ethnically mixed?]	220.9079
158	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	219.9053	[it was-]	220.3716
160		220.7722	[oh] my God. It was everybody, [you know so.]	223.6390
161	LES_int_01	222.5666	[/Interesting./]	223.3648
162	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	223.8162	Growing up on the Lower East Side,	225.5082
164		225.8511	I grew up eating lox-	227.2211
166		227.4334	lox and bagels and, you know.	229.4123
167	LES_int_01	229.4244	Yeah.	229.9327
168	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	230.1057	Going down to /RD-NAME-4/'s house to celebrate Hanukkah.	233.8675
170		234.2007	Or going next door to bake	235.8149
172		236.0162	those little Italian cookies with the sprinkles on them,	238.4825
173	LES_int_01	238.6830	[Okay.]	239.1851
174	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	238.8106	[with Mrs./RD-NAME-3/]	239.9746
175	LES_int_01	240.0206	[Uh-huh.]	240.3983
176	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	240.2444	[I mean,] everybody lived there, [so it was a very-]	243.1774
177	LES_int_01	241.7506	[Wow, and you all interacted.]	243.7969
178	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	243.8267	yeah. We had- everybody knew- we all had our suspicions and,	246.8371
180		247.2264	you know, but slowly what would happen was as people moved out- the people you could,	251.2868
181	LES_int_01	251.4800	[Yeah.]	251.7366
182	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	251.6806	[did] transition out.	253.0182
183		253.3633	<ts> And then there was a group of people who stayed. We were part of the group that stayed. Which, at some point, I'll tell you how I got my phone number.	259.5870
185		260.2374	[Right? My cell] phone [number.]	261.9171
186	LES_int_01	260.3821	[Yes.]	261.0638
188		261.4881	[Your same phone number.]	262.9057
189	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	262.1827	[Um, my cell] phone number is the f- number that my parents got	266.0665
190		266.8178	when they move into that-	267.6978
192		267.8155	to that apartment. So [it's the same] phone number.	270.5307
193	LES_int_01	269.0687	[That's incredible.]	269.9346
195		270.3137	[Yeah,] you have to tell me that [/inaudible/.]	272.2628
196	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	271.3366	[So I grew up]	272.2581
197		272.7990	on the Lower East Side, I grew up with all these experience and- and it was very diverse.	277.4705
198	LES_int_01	277.5193	So this was the sixties, [when you were a child,]	280.4334
199	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	279.0681	[This was the sixties, yes.]	280.9146
200	LES_int_01	280.7895	[What] do you remember about it? What- what did-	282.9849
201		283.1402	what did you do as a kid?	284.2392
202	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	284.6420	Um,	285.3937
203	LES_int_01	285.4183	In Jacob Riis, were there playgrounds?	287.1622
204	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	287.1784	yeah.	287.6139
206		287.9536	I mean, it's still there. My s- up until three years ago my sis- my father moved out, he moved	292.4769
208		292.6538	back to Georgia. And up until	294.3069
210		294.7432	three years ago, my sister took over the apartment,	297.1613
211	LES_int_01	297.2029	[She did?]	297.6786
212	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	297.3102	[and she] was there. We [couldn't] get her out of there, [you know, it's like, move already. My father had to leave before she would get out.]	303.2034
213	LES_int_01	298.4386	[Yeah.]	298.6531
215		299.5903	[<laugh>]	303.7178
216	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	303.7719	Um,	304.4217
218		305.1999	but there were, um,	306.9744
220		307.3941	<ts> there were playgrounds there.	309.4084
222		309.4924	We lived-	310.0310
224		310.3084	e- the projects is right across the street from a park.	312.8211
225	LES_int_01	313.1462	[Mm-hm.]	313.5235
226	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	313.4001	[So,] um,	314.7238
227		315.0574	across the street from the-	316.3694
229		316.6180	the projects, there's this park. And in that park there was a nursery, so I went to nursery school [there.]	321.1231
230	LES_int_01	320.9226	[Oh.]	321.8179
231	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	321.4588	[There was a] pre-K	322.5127
232	LES_int_01	322.6385	[Mm-hm.]	322.9288
233	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	322.7178	[there.] I remember, um,	324.4617
234		324.7647	having a graduation from nursery school with the little cap and gown.	328.0965
235	LES_int_01	328.2135	[Yeah.]	328.5818
236	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	328.5092	[You] know, my mother curling my hair into these, um,	331.2927
237		331.5825	Shirley Temple curls,	332.9084
238	LES_int_01	333.1042	[Right.]	333.6264
239	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	333.2394	[then having] bright, shiny shoes.	335.1584
240		335.5870	Um, we used to bicycle from	337.8370
242		338.6525	Twelfth	339.4485
244		339.5697	Street, which is, you know, the beginning of the [park.]	342.0037
245	LES_int_01	341.8639	[Yeah.]	342.3208
246	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	342.3387	All the way down to the end of it.	344.0750
248		344.4651	Down to where South Street Seaport is,	346.9106
249	LES_int_01	347.1969	[Right, so East] River Park, you're [talking about down w- by the water?]	350.6701
250	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	347.2157	[almost there.]	348.2554
252		349.1159	[East River Park.]	350.1349
254		350.4603	[Yes.] You [can bicycle all the] way down	352.7651
255	LES_int_01	351.0245	[Yeah.]	352.0457
256	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	353.1684	past, you know, Grand Street, all of that,	355.6843
258		355.9706	and then turn around and come back. And we would come over the bridge and we'd walk over-	359.6216
260		360.1706	walk over this bridge on Tenth Street and come back to our house. I remember doing that, I remember playing	364.7029
262		365.0012	in our, um,	366.5721
264		367.0617	<ts>	367.1503
266		367.4161	um,	367.9836
268		368.5292	in- in our- in the projects they had playgrounds, [you know, and] I remember this huge concrete	373.6304
269	LES_int_01	371.2244	[Yeah.]	371.5538
270	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	374.0908	airplane, that was right on,	376.1564
272		376.6053	um, Twelfth Street that I used to play in. And I [remember playing outside,]	380.5020
273	LES_int_01	379.2286	[Oh, cool.]	380.2405
274	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	380.9695	um,	381.7280
276		382.3165	until I was frozen in the winter. And at that time it seemed,	386.5227
278		386.8652	and maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like we used to have these huge snowstorms.	390.2706
280		390.6182	And that snow, and I think it's global warning- [warming,]	393.3878
281	LES_int_01	393.3400	[Yeah.]	393.9229
282	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	393.7961	[<ts> um,] we just don't get as much snow as we did.	396.2870
283	LES_int_01	396.3709	[Right.]	396.7253
284	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	396.5947	[Either] that or I was just smaller [then] and it looked [larger.]	400.5394
285	LES_int_01	398.7291	[<laugh>]	398.9995
287		399.6243	[It seemed really big.] (laughing)	401.0441
288	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	401.6080	And so we played, um,	404.3085
290		404.5844	until we were frozen, and everybody,	406.9418
292		407.3149	you know, it was always hanging out the window and telling on you. So there was nothing that you couldn't do-	411.7902
294		412.1556	that you could do, or- you couldn't do anything bad and get away with it, [because everybody] saw you and there was a-	417.5127
295	LES_int_01	415.5962	[Right.]	415.9693
296	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	417.6199	a sense	418.1350
298		418.5389	of community. [You know, I remember] Miss /RD-NAME-2/ who lived on the second floor, and you had to walk past her window	423.6940
299	LES_int_01	419.3719	[Right.]	419.9594
300	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	424.0202	to get outside, so therefore my mother knew that I was fine going out. [And]	427.6181
301	LES_int_01	427.5633	[<laugh>]	429.5864
302	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	427.9605	[there was-] (laughing)	428.7221
304		429.0601	[there was this,] you know, this thing where you knew who the bad guys wa- were. And that was /RD-NAME2/ who lived in the building behind us, and he was just like the- the community [bully, so everybody stayed] away from him. And,	439.5864
305	LES_int_01	437.5953	[Community bully.]	438.5348
306	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	440.0234	you know, we would deal with the Brownie Scouts, um,	443.2408
308		443.8050	uh,	444.3634
310		444.6685	within the projects that we, you know, um,	447.7066
312		448.4993	I was part of the Brownie Scouts. I remember going to /RD-SCHOOL-5/,	451.9297
314		452.3270	which is still there. It's right across the street on /RD-ADDRESS-7/.	456.2480
316		456.9658	[Um,]	457.5347
317	LES_int_01	456.9845	[Oh, yeah.]	457.8654
318	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	457.9071	but it was a new school at that time,	459.9383
320		460.1187	and I remember them dedicating the-	463.0583
322		463.5339	the garden and putting a tree, and there was a big thing about the sculpture that is in-	468.9071
324		469.2313	that's a part of that building.	470.5222
326		470.9140	There was something special about [it.]	472.6899
327	LES_int_01	472.6261	[Huh.]	473.0934
328	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	473.1670	If you look on the, I think-	475.1536
330		475.4429	t-	475.5636
332		476.3397	I think the building is between Twelfth and Eleventh Street, if you look on the Twelfth Street [side]	480.1274
333	LES_int_01	479.6270	[Yeah.]	480.3265
334	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	480.5969	there is a-	481.9165
336		482.3646	a sculpture there. And there's something very important about that sculpture,	485.5243
338		485.6689	but I don't remember what.	486.7080
339	LES_int_01	486.7080	[Oh, really?]	487.7239
340	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	486.8433	[But they made a big] to do about it.	488.6944
341	LES_int_01	488.7661	[Okay.]	489.2264
342	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	489.1839	[Um,] and I remember that. I remember taking yoga.	491.5533
343		492.3191	You know, [in the sixties,]	493.9281
344	LES_int_01	492.7406	[Really?]	493.3327
345	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	494.3584	[because-]	494.8984
346	LES_int_01	494.6384	[As a] kid?	495.4264
347	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	495.5709	as a kid, [because at] that time they had, um,	499.4912
348	LES_int_01	496.0758	[Good for you.]	496.7807
349	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	500.2512	they had, um,	501.7330
351		502.0271	<ts> it was the first time m-	503.5332
353		503.7337	that the public school system in New York had this idea of accelerated	507.8881
355		508.2215	programs.	508.9572
357		509.3550	You know, I'm sure they had other [forms of it,]	511.2758
358	LES_int_01	510.6327	[Like, the tracking system?]	512.0824
359	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	512.0352	[but-] no, the gifted and talented programs.	514.3555
360		514.7683	So, um, they called it uh, s- s- S-P was for junior high [school,]	520.1106
361	LES_int_01	519.6677	[Yeah.]	520.4978
362	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	520.4604	[and] then they called it I-G-C, Intellectually Gifted Children.	523.4999
363		523.9000	And they started it	525.0245
365		525.3159	when I was in third grade, so I was in that first group-	528.3015
367		528.4974	I think.	529.1306
368	LES_int_01	529.3553	[Yeah.]	529.7485
369	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	529.6242	[And] I was in the third and fourth grade, they combined them. And then I think fourth and fifth, and fifth and sixth- I don't remember how they did it,	535.4757
370	LES_int_01	535.5503	[Mm-hm.]	535.9700
371	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	535.9254	[but] I was part of that group. [So] I got to participate	539.3635
372	LES_int_01	537.2237	[Yeah.]	537.5734
373	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	539.4864	in all these different programs.	540.9484
375		541.4843	The public school system actually did very well by me. I [mean,]	544.8989
376	LES_int_01	544.6996	[Really?]	545.1913
377	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	545.8087	I have a /de- I'm-/	547.1351
379		547.2703	but, I mean, look at me. I grew up in the [projects.]	549.5026
380	LES_int_01	549.3546	[Yeah.]	549.7894
381	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	550.6696	I got a full scholarship to /RD-SCHOOL-2/	552.7770
383		552.9484	[College.]	553.6177
384	LES_int_01	553.3494	[Amazing.]	554.1841
385	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	554.2107	You know, and they found me. I had no idea they existed, but [they found me] based on my s-	558.4453
386	LES_int_01	557.0138	[Really?]	557.4242
387	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	558.5806	test scores.	559.4373
389		559.7054	Got a full scholarship,	561.0549
390	LES_int_01	561.2978	[That's incredible.]	562.1206
391	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	561.3402	[I ended up working for] Citibank and then getting an MBA in finance from [RD-SCHOOL-3].	566.4884
392		566.8460	And then, you know, here I am, the senior vice president and a director	570.8405
394		571.4889	at [/RD-WORK-5/].	572.9506
395	LES_int_01	571.9919	[Incredible.]	573.1250
396	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	573.2462	It's amazing.	574.2301
398		574.3513	You know, [so- but that's-]	575.7416
399	LES_int_01	574.7803	[That's a cool little story.]	576.0766
400	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	576.2509	that's my whole story.	577.3069
402		577.5960	But I'm giving you like l- little details.	579.4839
403	LES_int_01	579.4839	[Little d- details.]	580.6636
404	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	580.0061	[There used to] be a chicken market	581.8944
405		582.1464	<laugh> on-	583.2237
407		583.6801	where the pool is on Tenth Street and Avenue D.	586.4883
408	LES_int_01	586.4863	[Okay.]	586.9768
409	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	586.8856	[Right?]	587.2083
410	LES_int_01	587.4278	[Yeah.]	587.8068
411	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	587.5388	[That used] to be a chicken market.	588.9098
412	LES_int_01	589.0415	Like, live [chickens?]	590.1780
413	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	589.7313	[Like live] chickens. Like, you could- and I think for years after that, I could still smell the [chickens.]	594.8054
414	LES_int_01	594.6397	[Oh, no. <laugh>]	596.0466
415	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	595.3476	[You can ask anybody] who's old enough,	597.4187
416		597.6980	down there. My mother- we used to go down there and get chickens, and I remember	600.9614
418		601.2691	all there were were chicken coops.	602.7091
420		603.1569	And [we'd walk in,] and there were these little chicken coops.	605.5405
421	LES_int_01	603.3475	[Wow.]	604.0702
422	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	605.8610	I remember that, and I remember they used to sell milk,	608.5320
424		608.7092	um, in the projects. I'm looking out the window cause I wanted to look in that direction [since it's right there.]	614.0197
425	LES_int_01	613.1383	[Yeah.]	613.6810
427		613.8657	[Oh, okay. <laugh>]	615.1986
428	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	614.6058	[Um,]	615.1283
429		615.5437	but they used to sell milk,	617.3333
431		617.5108	uh, in the projects. And	619.2780
433		619.6070	there was, um,	620.4512
435		621.1752	just a little place. And I don't know who sponsored it and why it was there	624.3786
437		624.7090	and why we didn't go to the store,	626.3145
439		626.6435	but	627.2153
441		627.3989	you- y-	628.0591
443		628.2429	you-	628.6159
445		628.8855	I was upset	629.7523
447		629.8731	because my sister was in	631.4776
449		631.5849	school and I couldn't go to school, so my mother said, you're in milk school.	635.2344
451		635.4365	[<laugh> So we used to go and get] milk	638.3635
452	LES_int_01	635.9994	[Oh. <laugh>]	637.6454
453		638.4660	[<laugh>]	639.5805
454	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	638.8810	[<laugh>]	640.1190
455	LES_int_01	640.4465	[That's cute.]	641.3651
456	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	640.7138	[And that was-] I don't know what that [was about, but it seemed to satisfy] me, and I do remember that. And I remember there was this guy,	647.3862
457	LES_int_01	642.3303	[<laugh>]	643.4855
458	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	647.8516	I wanna call him Frank,	649.0721
460		649.4741	but I don't know if that was his real name, who had a hot dog	652.1018
462		652.5723	stand. You know, just one of those hot /dor/	654.4093
464		654.5539	vendors [on Tenth] Street and Avenue B, and he was there for years and we would stop there	658.5782
465	LES_int_01	654.9962	[Yeah.]	655.4316
466	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	658.9591	and get hot dogs. My mother loved hot dogs with, um,	661.8654
468		662.3220	ketchup and onions.	663.3535
470		663.4394	And we would get hot dogs and- and go home, and	666.1952
472		666.5935	see, he seemed to have the best food. And where that	669.2295
473	LES_int_01	669.2941	[Yeah.]	669.7178
474	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	669.6102	[storage] place is, there was a little bodega, which I think is still there on Avenue B between Ninth and Tenth Street.	675.4730
475		675.7795	And where housing wor- not on Avenue B, on Avenue D.	678.3987
477		678.9497	[And]	679.6444
478	LES_int_01	678.9497	[Okay.]	679.3087
479	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	679.8651	h- where Housing Works [is, that was] all, like, tenements.	683.0870
480	LES_int_01	681.3638	[Yeah.]	681.8580
481	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	683.4621	And then further down	684.9506
483		685.6240	<ts> um,	686.1003
485		686.3374	to me, in my t-	687.7047
487		687.9105	little mind, as you went further down,	690.6449
489		691.1410	um,	691.8808
491		692.2301	town	692.8447
493		692.9818	in the projects, it got scarier.	694.6914
495		695.0682	And I-	695.4658
496	LES_int_01	695.4658	[Huh.]	695.8668
497	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	695.6272	[I always] thought of it as	696.7578
498		696.9906	more violent.	697.8514
499	LES_int_01	698.1750	[Huh.]	698.4361
500	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	698.2399	[I think] it was just more unknown.	699.9982
501	LES_int_01	700.2254	Right.	700.6906
502	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	700.9155	But I think it was more violent. And then the other projects, Lillian Wald, were [down there.]	704.8921
503	LES_int_01	704.3832	[Lillian Wald.]	705.0841
504	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	705.2800	But Sixth Street, I remember	707.5122
506		707.6890	was an area where there were,	710.2844
508		710.8420	um, a lot of old,	712.8503
510		713.2796	um,	713.9962
512		714.3287	<ts> tenements.	715.1132
514		715.7103	And they filmed the Godfather there.	717.6439
515	LES_int_01	717.8386	I've heard that.	718.9421
516	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	719.0469	And I remember them filming that.	720.6597
517	LES_int_01	720.6597	Oh, [wow.]	721.8685
518	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	721.3118	[But that whole] area was important for a number of reasons. One, because it was intact.	725.9877
519		726.7288	And it was one of the few blocks that was intact, and that's where they filmed	730.2904
520	LES_int_01	730.4305	[Yes.]	730.8325
521	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	730.7243	[that-] the [Godfather.]	732.2344
522	LES_int_01	732.0432	[I] interviewed a woman who was in one of the- an extra	735.2280
523		735.7178	at the age of like, eleven.	737.0476
524	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	737.2178	Mm.	737.5815
525	LES_int_01	737.7260	In the movie.	738.4710
526	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	738.8206	[Mm-hm.]	739.2413
527	LES_int_01	739.1243	[And] they only hired a, like, Italian [Americans,]	741.8847
528	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	741.6236	[Yep.]	741.9220
529	LES_int_01	742.2346	because they were recreating this, like,	743.8518
531		743.9637	this scene, and she was- her- she was Italian. And sh- and as l- as like, a little eleven year old, she dressed up in the [old costume and like,]	750.2620
532	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	749.3527	[<laugh>]	750.8509
533	LES_int_01	750.5091	[walked up] and down the [street. Isn't that] funny?	752.4116
534	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	751.3391	[Yes.]	752.0106
535		752.4997	It is. [And it's- it's-]	753.6600
536	LES_int_01	752.9372	[I- I went back] and watched the movie, I was like, I couldn't believe it. [Cause I live on] /RD-ADDRESS-6/.	757.1676
537	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	755.2034	[it's that same-]	755.9565
538		757.4323	but it's that same street.	758.5563
539	LES_int_01	758.2470	[It's just] right there, [yeah.]	759.4407
540	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	759.1236	[Yeah. It was right around the corner, see is-] n- that s- [weird?]	762.2384
541	LES_int_01	759.7951	[Right around the corner.]	760.6064
543		760.7743	[I don't believe it.]	761.2825
545		762.0566	[I know,] I [love it.]	762.9938
546	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	762.5042	[And to go] back- and I think that s- block is still intact.	765.3619
547	LES_int_01	765.4732	[Yeah.]	765.7838
548	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	765.7453	[It's] one of a few.	766.8041
549		767.1315	They also had, um,	769.0962
551		769.6925	push ka-	770.2631
553		770.5156	carts. Did anybody tell you about the [push carts?]	772.7810
554	LES_int_01	772.0792	[Um, I've] heard about the one like, Orchard Street	774.6464
555		774.8210	[kind of area.]	775.8975
556	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	774.9189	[No, they weren't] that far down. [They were on, um,]	778.3502
557	LES_int_01	776.8487	[Oh, really? Were they on Avenue D?]	778.4997
558	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	778.6673	<ts>	778.8631
560		779.0393	no. They were on, I think between B and C and like, Third [Street?]	783.2356
561	LES_int_01	783.1221	[Huh.]	783.5401
562	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	783.9418	That, from what I understand, there-	785.6016
563	LES_int_01	785.3519	[I haven't] heard that.	786.2192
564	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	786.2192	/you mean, e-/	787.5202
565		787.7201	Job- Odd Job?	789.1376
567		789.3101	Do you remember those? And Odd Lot.	790.8342
568	LES_int_01	791.2399	[No.]	791.9487
569	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	791.3658	[There used to] be	792.3683
570		792.6434	up until like, maybe five or six years ago, these stores called Odd Job Trading?	797.5895
571	LES_int_01	797.7502	Okay.	798.1863
572	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	798.3155	My understanding is that- or Odd Lot Trading, something like that,	802.1299
573	LES_int_01	802.1578	[Okay.]	802.5309
574	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	802.4703	[where] you could go. They're the Dollar Stores, but they were s- they were bigger than Dollar Stores. [They're like Ja-] do you know Jacks?	808.6893
575	LES_int_01	807.1925	[Huh.]	807.7241
576		809.2162	Uh, yeah.	809.8631
578		810.0782	Yeah.	810.3160
579	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	810.3253	They're like the- it was a Jacks, [but it was called] Odd Job. It has since gone out of business,	815.3167
580	LES_int_01	812.2878	[Okay.]	812.8088
581	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	815.6965	but until maybe five years ago, there was one right over here on Fourty-eighth [Street. Between]	819.9647
582	LES_int_01	819.1363	[Oh, okay.]	820.0036
583	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	821.2686	Fifth and Sixth.	822.0918
585		822.3058	In [any case,] my understanding is the start to those stores	825.2387
586	LES_int_01	822.4783	[Interesting.]	822.9399
587	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	825.4859	were the push carts	826.5833
589		827.1862	on Third Street.	828.3523
590	LES_int_01	828.4315	[Oh.]	829.5973
591	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	828.8561	[So the push] carts sold pots and pans,	831.8728
592		832.2764	my mother used to by, um, soil	834.6099
594		835.1262	<ts> um,	835.9508
596		836.0948	by the pot. The- the literal flower pot full.	839.0899
598		839.6705	You know, for a nickel or [whatever.]	841.5877
599	LES_int_01	841.4618	[That's] incredible.	842.2824
600	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	842.3217	I also remember	843.7398
602		844.0590	the buses. The- the lowest fair I think I remember-	848.4175
604		849.1667	I know fifteen cents for sure, but I wanna say ten cents.	852.3918
606		853.5594	You know, and it had- and it was the old,	855.9740
608		856.3009	old, old, old, buses. (laughing)	859.5183
609	LES_int_01	859.5717	Right.	860.2021
610	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	860.2021	Old buses where they had- and I remember the	863.0970
611		863.2743	th- the	863.9024
613		864.0156	coined thing that they-	865.4610
615		865.5965	the money dropped [into. And the] driver would give you change back [for you dollar. <laugh>]	871.2333
616	LES_int_01	866.8828	[Yeah.]	867.3922
618		869.4520	[<laugh>]	871.1027
619	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	871.8478	And, [um]	873.2656
620	LES_int_01	872.8460	[And now, where] were you going on the bus? Where did you go as [a kid?]	875.8849
621	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	875.3361	[We went to, um-]	877.1826
622	LES_int_01	876.5890	[Did you leave the] neighborhood?	877.7730
623	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	878.0935	all the time.	878.9344
624	LES_int_01	878.9995	You did?	879.4142
625	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	879.4427	My mother would go on strike	881.3206
627		881.4418	on	882.1219
629		882.5469	weekends, so my father was responsible for [myself and my sister.]	886.7289
630	LES_int_01	885.5072	[Now what do you parents both] do? Is [your mom home] with [you?]	888.1576
631	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	887.3304	[My m-]	887.7547
633		888.0968	[she] was [home, and my] father, um, was a clerk	892.1918
634	LES_int_01	888.7007	[Mm-hm.]	889.0877
635	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	892.3433	in a, uh, for a textile. He always- he was always in the same industry, and he retired	896.8382
637		897.2884	from textiles, but he was a [clerk.] He was like a shipping clerk. [He was the guy] that mailed out your	902.1839
638	LES_int_01	898.7047	[Wow.]	899.1383
640		900.3740	[Oh.]	900.7797
641	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	902.6308	[bolts of-]	903.8118
642	LES_int_01	902.7561	[Your order.]	903.5441
643	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	903.9739	of fabric.	905.1388
644	LES_int_01	905.1577	Okay.	905.5691
645	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	905.6623	And	906.3537
647		906.5091	he- my mother would go on strike	908.4162
648	LES_int_01	908.7047	[<laugh>]	909.4787
649	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	908.8809	[and he] would have to do our hair.	911.2313
650		912.1315	It was horrible. [Horrible.]	913.9212
651	LES_int_01	913.6793	[<laugh>]	914.3408
652	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	914.3908	And he would have to do our hair and, um,	917.9570
654		918.3048	he would take us places.	919.6979
656		919.8098	Um, he was very involved in the church.	922.3178
658		922.7514	My mother not so much as my father, [she went because] he went.	926.1540
659	LES_int_01	924.4434	[Oh.]	924.9296
660		926.3872	[Okay.]	926.9001
661	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	926.5924	[But he] would take us places. He would,	928.6813
662		929.1709	um, y- we would say, daddy where are we going? Oh I'm going to see a man about a dog. Oh, really are we getting a dog? And we would fall for this like, [every week. <laugh>]	936.7548
663	LES_int_01	935.6038	[<laugh>]	937.7047
664	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	937.2185	[And he would take] us places. He would take us to museums or-	941.0075
665	LES_int_01	941.2540	[Huh.]	941.6661
666	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	941.5244	[he] always take us to some place weird. Like, I remember going all the way up	945.4688
667		945.6717	to the northern most part-	947.6269
669		947.7531	point in Manhattan	949.1509
671		949.4628	to see an old Dutch house.	950.9902
673		951.4089	You know, and we would walk through there, or we would go to a museum, [or we would go to] the- one of the parks.	956.4984
674	LES_int_01	954.3115	[Huh.]	954.9732
675		956.7356	Now, [that seems] like a rare thing for a family	959.5893
676	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	956.9081	[/And./]	957.1939
677	LES_int_01	959.8318	growing in /RD-ADDRESS-3/, right? That you were off	962.6413
679		962.7821	on the weekends at a museum, or something like [that.]	965.1229
680	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	964.9594	[Well,] I think to the extent that, one, that we were-	968.0173
681		968.7530	for African American families, I think that's true.	971.5227
683		971.7522	I think that there wer-	972.7740
685		973.3188	I'm trying to [think]	974.4741
686	LES_int_01	974.4161	[May-] maybe I'm thinking more today.	976.4605
687	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	976.6330	because	977.4956
689		977.6631	at that time, remember, there were other different ethnic [groups.]	981.2104
690	LES_int_01	981.0988	[Right.]	981.6304
691	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	981.6284	Those ethnic groups, those families, were intact.	984.4054
692		984.9171	The other African American families,	987.1163
694		988.2737	there weren't a lot of fathers around, that I [remember.]	991.0428
695	LES_int_01	990.8936	[Right.]	991.6163
696	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	991.6810	Um, I remember all the mothers.	994.1069
698		994.2778	And I remember the fathers being there at some point, but not consistent.	998.0779
699	LES_int_01	998.1696	Okay.	998.5662
700	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	998.6368	So I think that for us,	1000.6978
701	LES_int_01	1000.9794	[Yeah.]	1001.3843
702	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1001.0324	[that was] a rarity.	1002.2592
703	LES_int_01	1002.3012	[Yeah.]	1002.6975
704	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1002.6975	The other rare- but in terms of what those other families did, I'm not really sure.	1007.3318
705		1007.4291	You [know, I know that- cause we did it]	1009.4708
706	LES_int_01	1007.8854	[Maybe they did as well, yeah.]	1009.5848
707	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1010.0070	<ts> as a group.	1011.1776
709		1011.3499	You know, or d- usually my mother did not go, she stayed home, she relaxed, or whatever. But we usually took	1016.2276
711		1016.4856	trips with my father,	1017.5916
713		1017.8854	and I think that was [unusual too.]	1019.7785
714	LES_int_01	1019.2516	[Yeah.]	1019.8811
715		1020.0157	[Yeah.]	1020.3698
716	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1020.2578	[You] know, as a group we went to church a-	1022.2013
717		1022.4241	and we always went to Harlem.	1023.8393
719		1024.2071	So we went up to Harlem and we were going up there, my father finally bought a car,	1028.7946
721		1029.1257	um, during the riots,	1030.9383
723		1031.0828	[in the sixties and seventies, so we s-] saw h- Harlem burning	1035.0766
724	LES_int_01	1031.2831	[Mm. Mm-hm.]	1032.1879
726		1032.5936	[Mm-hm.]	1033.0366
727		1035.2235	[Wow.]	1035.6985
728	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1035.4980	[and] burnt.	1036.2560
729		1036.7336	Um,	1037.5217
731		1038.0486	<ts> so it was interesting. And at that time,	1040.2162
733		1040.4586	you know, the focus for me was the school.	1042.9520
735		1043.2038	I remember going to the library. The library on Tenth Street was our [library.]	1047.1969
736	LES_int_01	1046.9528	[Yeah.]	1047.4097
737	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1047.5350	The, um, dorms where- on Fourteenth Street,	1051.6885
738	LES_int_01	1051.8009	[Mm-hm.]	1052.0947
739	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1051.8848	[See, cause] I'm on the northern part of the Lower East Side.	1054.3502
740	LES_int_01	1054.3689	[Right.]	1054.7746
741	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1054.6720	[And] I think that some people don't count where we were as the Lower East Side. The Lower East Side [I th-]	1059.4620
742	LES_int_01	1059.1564	[Yeah.]	1059.6740
743	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1060.0983	has become	1060.9749
745		1061.4219	more south of Houston [Street.]	1064.0058
746	LES_int_01	1063.8052	[Some] people think that, [right.]	1065.2280
747	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1064.9020	[Yeah,] and they don't count north of Houston Street as being the- I don't know what it is. I think they consider it to be the East [Village.]	1071.0460
748	LES_int_01	1070.9283	[Yeah.] What do you consider it to [be?]	1072.5900
749	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1072.4717	[<ts>]	1072.5696
750		1072.6815	I consider- I've always considered it to be the Lower [East Side.]	1075.4071
751	LES_int_01	1074.9331	[Yeah.]	1075.5246
752		1075.6552	I mean, the term East Village I think wasn't even created until like, the [seventies. So at] the time you were growing up,	1081.3386
753	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1079.6926	[Right.]	1080.3081
754	LES_int_01	1081.5811	I don't think there was another name	1082.9395
756		1083.1052	for the neigborhood, except	1084.0938
758		1084.2383	Lower East Side.	1085.1289
759	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1085.3881	And I also think that-	1086.9199
761		1088.0186	yes. I absolutely agree with you.	1089.8039
762	LES_int_01	1089.8039	[Yeah. So it's more- I think newer people] that view the north of Houston as the East Village, and this different thing.	1095.6689
763	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1089.9997	[I'm- it's always been the Lower East Side.]	1091.6480
764		1096.1308	[Yes.]	1096.6011
765	LES_int_01	1096.1721	[Like, you talk] to [folks that have been here- yeah, that have been around] for a while, they say, no it's all Lower- and historically it was all one [neighborhood. Yeah.]	1103.0533
766	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1096.9229	[Alphabet City. Yeah, become-]	1099.1471
768		1102.0887	[It was.]	1102.9226
769		1103.3564	And	1103.5802
771		1103.9299	the other thing I was gonna say is Fourteenth Street on-	1106.8202
773		1107.8321	right on Irving Place where, um, PC Richards is [and also where] NYU dorms were.	1112.8388
774	LES_int_01	1111.0250	[Oh, yeah.]	1111.5891
775		1112.9122	Right.	1113.2305
776	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1113.2631	There was the Palladium	1114.2833
778		1114.7353	that was a- a discotheque for a while, [right.]	1117.8128
779	LES_int_01	1117.3745	[Oh.]	1118.1872
780	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1118.4365	And before that it was a movie theater.	1120.5487
782		1120.8244	It was my neighborhood movie [theater.]	1123.1674
783	LES_int_01	1122.5304	[Oh, really?]	1123.3697
784	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1123.3697	And Fourteenth Street, between Second and Third Avenue,	1126.1245
785		1126.4855	was all these, like, X-rated film	1129.1644
787		1129.5234	[places. Yes.]	1130.9550
788	LES_int_01	1129.7752	[Really?]	1130.5444
789	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1131.5238	[And-]	1132.1279
790	LES_int_01	1131.7370	[When was] this? In the sixties?	1133.2432
791	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1133.2898	In the sixties. I'm trying to remember,	1135.2249
793		1135.6564	[um, sixties, seventies.]	1137.3345
794	LES_int_01	1135.9703	[Interesting.]	1136.9542
795	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1137.5790	Sixties, seventies.	1138.8753
796	LES_int_01	1138.8986	Very [interesting.]	1140.0410
797	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1139.8545	[<ts>]	1139.9757
798		1140.1337	I remember the blackout.	1141.1833
800		1141.3873	The first blackout.	1142.4961
801	LES_int_01	1142.6696	[Yes.]	1143.2944
802	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1143.2485	And having- and being at home and listening to the radio. And-	1146.7293
803	LES_int_01	1146.8323	How did that affect your family then?	1148.5902
804	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1148.6249	well, I just remember waiting for my father to come home,	1151.1688
806		1151.4001	you know. And it didn't affect us very much. [There was no] babies born after that or [anything.]	1156.7677
807	LES_int_01	1154.2264	[Yeah.]	1154.7300
809		1156.4413	[Okay. <laugh>]	1159.0139
810	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1157.2466	[<laugh>]	1158.1839
812		1158.6828	[But,] um,	1159.6154
813		1159.7739	no.	1160.2635
815		1160.6739	[No.]	1161.0686
816	LES_int_01	1160.6739	[/Well,/ where your parents, um, <ts>	1162.6180
817		1162.8438	strict or lax as parents? When were you allowed to kind of go out and explore in the neighborhood, or did you stay close to [home?]	1169.0612
818	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1168.9340	[Very] much so. You know, I think that,	1171.7410
819		1171.8910	um,	1172.8716
821		1174.2709	I think that	1175.2966
823		1175.5920	they were-	1176.3753
825		1177.9461	the- one of the trips that we took was to the library. There was always this thing about-	1182.9674
827		1183.1393	there was school and learning was always like a focal center.	1186.4278
829		1186.8543	But it wasn't	1187.9501
831		1188.6122	n- beaten into us. It was like,	1190.7456
833		1190.8824	you have to-	1191.9502
835		1192.1041	my sister and I,	1193.2477
837		1193.4750	luckily,	1194.1931
839		1194.4635	loved school.	1195.4663
840	LES_int_01	1195.6799	Okay.	1196.0902
841	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1196.0902	We loved school, [loved] learning, loved education, [loved] reading.	1200.9720
842	LES_int_01	1197.3346	[Yeah.]	1197.8009
844		1200.0264	[Yeah.]	1200.3002
845	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1201.2881	We would go to the library and get books.	1203.7588
847		1203.8987	I r- two memories, vivid memories,	1206.1795
849		1206.5599	one was taking the shopping cart, for whatever reason, to the library	1210.1503
851		1210.4761	s- and I don't know why we had this shopping cart,	1213.1293
853		1213.5303	but	1213.9872
855		1214.3556	putting books in it. <laugh>	1216.1682
857		1216.3081	Coming home,	1217.0018
859		1217.1940	putting book in the-	1218.1220
861		1218.2245	[in the shopping cart and by the time] we got home, there were no books because they had fallen out of the shopping [cart.]	1222.9192
862	LES_int_01	1218.2245	[<laugh>]	1219.5155
864		1222.7609	[<laugh>]	1223.6679
865	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1223.2457	[And we had] all these books, and I remember I had to pay for them. (laughing)	1226.5645
866		1226.9236	[And I was like, mortified.] <laugh> It's like, why did you?	1231.5299
867	LES_int_01	1227.0395	[Oh, no.]	1228.6946
868		1231.6412	[<laugh>]	1232.7043
869	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1232.4392	[That's-] that's one thing. And then the other memory is	1235.2459
870		1235.6826	the- probably the one beating,	1237.6708
872		1238.1866	um, spanking that my father every gave me, [my mother used] to spank me all the time,	1242.6390
873	LES_int_01	1240.9612	[Yeah.]	1241.4267
874	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1243.2219	was, um,	1245.0999
876		1245.5667	<ts>	1245.6900
878		1246.7451	was	1247.3140
880		1247.4402	catch- he came to my room and he was like,	1249.3796
882		1249.4682	go to bed. And I was like,	1250.5383
884		1250.7645	reading, and I- and he came in like, two times. The third time, I'm under the covers	1255.3490
885	LES_int_01	1255.6174	With a [flashlight? <laugh>]	1258.2099
886	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1256.2468	[with a flashlight. And he gave me a] spanking for that.	1259.3423
887		1259.7667	Um,	1260.5214
888	LES_int_01	1260.6147	[/Okay./]	1260.9877
889	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1260.7033	[so]	1261.5958
890		1263.0067	e- this- there was this whole thing about school, so	1265.7758
892		1266.1442	if we said we had school work, we didn't have to do any other work.	1269.2957
894		1269.6448	We [didn't have to do] anything.	1270.9644
895	LES_int_01	1269.7427	[Wow.]	1270.2323
896		1271.0063	Wow.	1271.3980
897	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1271.4073	So	1272.2933
899		1272.4459	if we were- if we had homework, my parents were like, fine.	1275.2203
901		1275.5141	But there was never a pressure to succeed, there was never	1278.4517
903		1278.5729	pre- i-	1279.0666
904	LES_int_01	1279.0666	Yeah.	1279.6121
905	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1279.7567	but it- the- I guess [in-]	1281.3281
906	LES_int_01	1280.9114	[But they supported] you.	1282.1454
907	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1282.2920	totally. [So,]	1283.7911
908	LES_int_01	1282.9308	[Yeah.]	1283.3412
909	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1284.9592	you know, we were always- we excelled in school. We just [always did] well. And [so with] that	1291.3088
910	LES_int_01	1288.1333	[Okay.]	1288.7955
912		1289.8866	[Yeah.]	1290.4584
913	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1291.7611	came the freedom to do other things. And I think	1295.2343
915		1296.2035	by giving us- I spent a lot of time just wandering through the East Village, and a lot of time in the West Village.	1302.6184
916	LES_int_01	1302.6457	Huh.	1302.9592
917	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1303.1175	Just wandering through. And if you think about it, the West Village at that time	1307.5091
919		1307.7643	was very much like the East Village is, or was maybe ten years [ago.]	1311.6112
920	LES_int_01	1311.5179	[Right.]	1311.9751
921	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1311.9702	It was very seedy.	1313.4484
922		1313.7595	There was a women's prison there, I mean there was like, [really kind] of weird-	1318.5390
923	LES_int_01	1316.6179	[Really?]	1317.2493
924		1318.5390	Yeah.	1319.2370
925	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1319.2984	there was a Nathan's right on Sixth Avenue, and it [was all this] kind of weird stuff [going on.]	1323.8721
926	LES_int_01	1321.8810	[Okay.]	1322.4441
928		1323.4058	[But also] like, bohemian [at the same time.]	1325.8998
929	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1324.8513	[Yes, very much so.]	1326.7934
930	LES_int_01	1326.4866	[Right.]	1327.0337
931	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1327.1255	Very much so. And Nathan's at that time, I brought it up not because it was a chain like a McDonald's chain like it is today,	1334.3510
932	LES_int_01	1334.3697	[Yeah.]	1334.7216
933	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1334.6122	[there] were only like, three of them.	1335.9831
934		1336.3141	That one, the one on	1338.1993
936		1338.3425	Forty-Second Street,	1339.9319
937	LES_int_01	1340.0018	Yeah.	1340.3795
938	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1340.3889	and the one on- in Coney Island.	1343.1720
940		1343.2979	That was it.	1343.9905
941	LES_int_01	1344.1605	Wow.	1344.6501
942	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1344.9519	So it wasn't a- as if it was a chain, it was just a place. Like a Horn and Hardarts, you [know.]	1350.2630
943	LES_int_01	1350.1231	[Yeah.]	1350.6307
944	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1350.6820	I remember those.	1351.8865
946		1352.1601	You know, my memory kind of-	1354.0351
948		1355.2122	is kind of a bridge between, you know, the fifties and what's going on now.	1360.0898
949	LES_int_01	1360.0898	[Right.]	1360.7167
950	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1360.4721	[So I] have very distant memories, like I remember segregation.	1363.6836
951		1364.0660	But I only remember the end of it. [I remember going] every summer	1369.1292
952	LES_int_01	1366.0284	[That's incredible.]	1366.9377
953	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1369.5302	we went south	1370.7472
955		1370.9378	with my mother for like, six weeks.	1373.0128
956	LES_int_01	1373.0128	[Yeah.]	1373.5017
957	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1373.2779	[My father] stayed here and worked, [and we] went south.	1376.0430
958	LES_int_01	1374.8913	[Yeah.]	1375.2363
959	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1376.4347	And	1377.2687
961		1377.3946	it was a totally different world. I remember going	1380.1731
963		1381.0963	with my aunt to,	1383.2406
965		1383.6463	um, when we were in Georgia we were- went-	1386.3855
967		1386.7838	and I think we were in a department store or something. And my sister	1390.0705
969		1390.4342	went to	1391.4554
971		1391.8831	drink out of a water fountain, and my aunt grabbed her by the scruff of her neck and pulled her back. And I'm like,	1398.1815
973		1398.3545	what's that [about?]	1399.3804
974	LES_int_01	1398.9001	[Oh my God.]	1399.8367
975	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1399.6834	[<ts> And] it was because she was about to drink out of the whites-only water fountain.	1403.2042
976		1403.8182	Wild.	1404.4663
978		1404.6435	[But the thing about it is,] my son	1407.1795
979	LES_int_01	1404.6801	[That's incredible.]	1405.9892
980	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1407.7110	will have no memory of that.	1409.3704
981	LES_int_01	1409.3704	Yeah.	1409.9346
982	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1409.9346	And- and what's so c-	1411.3195
983		1411.5256	cool, like I was reading this article today	1414.0699
985		1414.4563	<ts> about how Obama	1416.5779
987		1416.9224	won this election, what he was able to do in terms of working	1421.0391
989		1422.3260	through young people to convince older people	1425.8272
991		1426.4974	to vote for him.	1427.6860
992	LES_int_01	1427.7424	[Oh.]	1428.4605
993	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1428.0735	[But it was] something that had to be done on both sides. And I don't know if	1432.7170
994		1432.8523	as a- a society we have an appreciation for the fact	1436.3208
996		1436.7918	that blacks had to be convinced too.	1438.9780
997	LES_int_01	1439.2112	Right.	1439.5609
998	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1439.5609	Because	1440.2510
999		1440.5581	there are people who are like me and	1443.0468
1001		1443.5504	who are older,	1444.6089
1002	LES_int_01	1444.6089	Yeah.	1445.0425
1003	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1445.0425	who- who I'm- who live and grew up with boundaries.	1448.5351
1004		1448.8381	Whereas my son, although the boundaries are there to the s- to some extent,	1453.0801
1006		1453.3645	they're not there to the same extent.	1455.2943
1008		1455.5741	And they're not as [visible.]	1456.9542
1009	LES_int_01	1456.8051	[Yeah.]	1457.3227
1010	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1457.3983	So he's going to grow up	1459.7188
1012		1460.3156	saying, what do you mean black president? When d-	1463.2526
1014		1463.6157	I was [born, you know,]	1465.3270
1015	LES_int_01	1464.6322	[Yeah.]	1465.2757
1016	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1465.4715	I voted for him, [you know.]	1467.1309
1017	LES_int_01	1466.5475	[Yeah.]	1467.0842
1018		1467.3733	D- [As a given.]	1468.3339
1019	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1467.4992	[So those-]	1468.1987
1020		1468.3612	[Yeah, those] things are more of a given, they're still [challenges.]	1472.0030
1021	LES_int_01	1468.5531	[Right.]	1469.0473
1023		1471.6526	[But isn't] that [incredible?]	1473.0235
1024	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1472.8743	[It] is incredible.	1473.9980
1025		1474.2778	And I was thinking today	1475.7314
1027		1475.9598	how sad is it that,	1478.2213
1029		1478.4825	you know, I can remember Martin Luther King and he could not see the fruits of his own labor	1483.6517
1030	LES_int_01	1483.8528	[Yeah.]	1484.4310
1031	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1484.2958	[being,] you know, translated today. And hopefully in some weird way he can.	1488.3849
1032	LES_int_01	1488.4492	Yeah.	1488.8921
1033	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1488.9015	Um, through the eyes of his children, but	1490.9578
1034	LES_int_01	1491.2516	[Right.]	1491.7179
1035	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1491.2842	[<ts>]	1491.4241
1036		1492.2821	getting back to the story.	1493.9041
1037	LES_int_01	1494.0654	[Yeah.]	1494.6222
1038	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1494.3376	[I] also remember, wanna go on record, there was an- a red bus [<laugh>]	1499.1526
1039	LES_int_01	1498.7373	[Alright.]	1499.6189
1040	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1499.3252	[on] Avenue [B. It was the Avenue] B Bus.	1501.8851
1041	LES_int_01	1500.3417	[Okay.] (laughing)	1501.2284
1042		1501.8851	Oh, [yeah.]	1502.5052
1043	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1502.2581	[At that] time, the transit system-	1504.5097
1044		1504.6682	I don't know if they were still	1506.0437
1046		1506.4541	independently owned, like people still owned- I [think for the most part] the system had been consolidated	1512.4493
1047	LES_int_01	1509.4557	[Oh, /okay./]	1510.2437
1048	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1512.7617	and was owned by the city.	1514.3931
1049	LES_int_01	1514.5283	[Right.]	1514.9405
1050	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1514.7381	[There was] one independent	1516.4255
1051		1517.2321	<ts> bus that I knew of, I'm sure there were more.	1519.6376
1052	LES_int_01	1519.6469	[Yeah.]	1520.1229
1053	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1519.8334	[But the] Avenue B bus, the- uh- the number nine bus	1522.9569
1054	LES_int_01	1522.9569	Yeah.	1523.2921
1055	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1523.2921	was an independent bus. It was a red b- bus line, and it was private.	1526.8451
1056		1527.3297	So that had, um,	1529.2294
1058		1529.3578	I think it was privately owned. It was red, all the other buses were green,	1533.0054
1060		1533.4459	[so.]	1534.0380
1061	LES_int_01	1533.4745	[Okay.]	1533.9308
1062	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1534.1453	And then the trains went by	1536.2709
1064		1536.4574	the l- name of their lines, like the Independent, the I-R-T,	1539.9160
1066		1540.3683	[the Lexington Avenue Line. So the I-R-T] was the two or the three on Seventh Avenue.	1544.7142
1067	LES_int_01	1540.4243	[Oh, yeah. Yeah.]	1542.5412
1068		1544.7462	[Okay.]	1545.2904
1069	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1544.9746	[The Independent] was the	1546.5594
1070		1547.1522	the A, the E, [the C.]	1549.0254
1071	LES_int_01	1548.4752	[Okay.]	1548.8786
1072	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1549.4451	And the Lexington Avenue Line was the Four, Five, or [Six.]	1552.7930
1073	LES_int_01	1552.6625	[Oh, okay.]	1553.4645
1074	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1553.2820	[You know,] now people are starting to call them by their n-	1555.2911
1075		1555.4031	their colors, which is really starting to [annoy me.]	1558.1634
1076	LES_int_01	1557.1656	[/Kind of/ weird,] yeah.	1558.5486
1077	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1558.6297	You know, but change is change, [so. <laugh>]	1561.0858
1078	LES_int_01	1560.4563	[<laugh>]	1562.0044
1079	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1561.7199	[<laugh>]	1561.8971
1080		1562.1815	So, you know, even as I am remembering all this stuff, it was something else before.	1567.1089
1082		1567.5006	You know, [I knew it] so I have to be okay with that [too.]	1570.9732
1083	LES_int_01	1567.9896	[Yeah.]	1568.6377
1085		1570.6521	[<laugh>]	1571.5725
1086	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1571.4355	[I'm] trying to remember what else did this- the neighborhood look like.	1574.4984
1087		1575.0899	<ts>	1575.1645
1089		1575.2904	Old Stuyvesant Town was all- always there. I lived there, and then as I was growing up, I went to	1580.4842
1091		1580.7680	/RD-SCHOOL-5/	1581.8514
1093		1582.1949	and then I went to /RD-SCHOOL-7/,	1584.2800
1095		1584.6755	which is [right on] /RD-ADDRESS-4/,	1586.8245
1096	LES_int_01	1585.1925	[/??/]	1585.9339
1097	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1586.9917	<ts>	1587.0896
1099		1587.2342	between [/RD-ADDRESS-4/. And we] used to have to go through,	1590.3631
1100	LES_int_01	1587.6049	[Um,]	1587.9989
1102		1588.5538	[Mm-hm.]	1588.9253
1103	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1590.7780	um,	1591.5561
1105		1592.6379	<ts>	1592.7684
1107		1593.0016	uh, Stuyvesant Town to get there and they hated us. They didn't like us, they thought, oh-	1597.8544
1109		1598.2554	that's my v-	1598.9921
1111		1599.1133	view,	1599.7322
1113		1600.0213	you know, my- [my view,] my memory.	1602.5906
1114	LES_int_01	1601.0099	[Really.]	1601.5976
1115		1602.6046	[Mm-hm.]	1603.0149
1116	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1602.9543	[So] I don't know if that's true,	1604.6329
1117		1604.7209	but that is what I'm putting in their heads and their mouths.	1608.0549
1118	LES_int_01	1608.3427	But you remember people, like, saying stuff to you as [you walked by, or?]	1612.0941
1119	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1610.7954	[<ts>]	1610.9446
1121		1611.1544	[Say- n- uh- not] so much saying, i- it's [looks.]	1614.6043
1122	LES_int_01	1614.3758	[Looks, yeah.]	1615.3410
1123	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1615.0053	[You know,] and we always thought of it as like, an exclusive	1618.3433
1124		1618.5018	neighborhood. It's funny, cause I live there now, so I'm kind of like, okay.	1621.6714
1125	LES_int_01	1621.8205	Is that where you live now?	1622.7531
1126	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1622.7531	That's where I live [now.]	1623.8420
1127	LES_int_01	1623.5971	[Oh, that's funny.]	1624.9354
1128	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1623.9888	[So I'm like,]	1624.6086
1129		1625.2232	[okay. But a-]	1626.3767
1130	LES_int_01	1625.6102	[<laugh>]	1626.9093
1131	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1626.7386	[but,]	1627.1403
1132		1628.0349	it-	1628.3800
1134		1628.5991	I always felt that they looked down on the people who lived in the projects.	1631.6667
1135	LES_int_01	1631.7715	[Mm.]	1632.4687
1136	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1631.8578	[You know, and]	1632.8510
1137		1633.1541	at that [time-]	1634.2411
1138	LES_int_01	1633.7270	[Do you think-]	1634.1933
1139		1634.3705	do you think- do you think it's true, or- or is it true today?	1636.9861
1140	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1637.4432	I think it's definitely true today. I think that- but I think overall people have problems with, um,	1642.9909
1142		1643.6424	with poorer neighborhoods.	1645.4097
1144		1645.8900	And I think that at that time, the projects themselves were going through transition.	1651.2843
1146		1651.6847	Heroin had hit.	1652.9182
1148		1653.4426	Um, [and I guess] either it was- I don't know what	1656.4868
1149	LES_int_01	1653.8896	[Right.]	1654.3186
1150	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1656.8085	changed but it became a bigger part- drugs became a bigger part of the [community.]	1661.4935
1151	LES_int_01	1660.7567	[Yeah.]	1661.5593
1152	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1662.0623	Um, so there were a lot of people roaming in- and our neighborhood became a haven for drugs.	1668.5472