Line | Speaker | St Time | Content | En Time |
1 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 0.2067 | We were talking about drugs [in the neighborhood.] | 2.2158 |
2 | LES_int_01 | 1.2040 | [We were talk- yeah. I was] wo- yeah, I was curious. I mean, people do talk about, you know | 4.5519 |
3 | | 4.7151 | that period as being, you know, | 6.7002 |
5 | | 6.8121 | heightened crime, heightened | 8.5686 |
7 | | 8.7706 | danger- you know, feeling unsafe. Was that [something you experienced?] | 12.2344 |
8 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 11.1573 | [Well,] | 11.6621 |
10 | | 12.0386 | [this] is like, in a later- | 13.6147 |
11 | | 13.7779 | latter part of the sixties, | 15.6572 |
13 | | 16.1833 | and the early part of the seventies. | 18.8818 |
14 | LES_int_01 | 18.8818 | Yeah. | 19.2875 |
15 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 19.4927 | Y- crime b- | 20.2853 |
17 | | 21.4324 | increased. | 22.2904 |
18 | LES_int_01 | 22.5646 | [Okay.] | 22.8332 |
19 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 22.6015 | [It's] not something that I saw or experienced. | 25.9542 |
20 | | 26.4631 | Um, I saw drugs. | 28.2389 |
22 | | 28.7606 | I saw people roaming the street, drugged out. I remember two things. (laughing) | 33.8472 |
24 | | 34.3128 | One was this guy who used to be- he was a fixture in the West Village, | 38.4149 |
26 | | 38.7366 | who used to skate around, and it wasn't rollerblades then it was the four wheels, | 42.4390 |
27 | LES_int_01 | 42.4943 | Yeah. | 42.9325 |
28 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 43.1098 | with- in a clown costume, | 44.7464 |
30 | | 45.0355 | with a little umbrella. | 46.3685 |
32 | | 46.4944 | I remember him. That had to be [drugs.] | 48.4382 |
33 | LES_int_01 | 48.3542 | [<laugh>] | 49.9070 |
34 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 48.7506 | [I remember the electric] circus that was on Eighth Street, [right?] | 52.7874 |
35 | LES_int_01 | 52.3118 | [Yeah.] | 52.9646 |
36 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 53.1604 | And I also remember- I have this vivid memory- /you'll notice that-/ | 56.5830 |
38 | | 56.9374 | of, um, somebody- | 58.3629 |
40 | | 58.8945 | <ts> this woman walking around naked. | 61.1653 |
42 | | 62.0932 | In panties, | 63.0787 |
44 | | 63.4722 | holding a birthday cake. | 64.8431 |
46 | | 66.1767 | And she was huge. | 67.5234 |
47 | LES_int_01 | 67.9392 | [Wow.] | 68.4935 |
48 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 68.0325 | [I w-] I will always- how can you lose that [memory, right?] | 71.7142 |
49 | LES_int_01 | 70.8243 | [Wow. <laugh>] | 72.3211 |
50 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 72.2745 | [<laugh>] | 74.5487 |
51 | LES_int_01 | 73.0858 | [<laugh>] | 73.9251 |
53 | | 74.3202 | [So you're] g- we're guessing she was not [sober? <laugh>] | 77.6821 |
54 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 76.3532 | [No, she was not sober. And I] also remember and know who the drug addicts were | 80.9970 |
55 | | 81.1227 | in- i- in the- in the | 82.7128 |
57 | | 82.8387 | [projects.] | 83.4809 |
58 | LES_int_01 | 83.2104 | [Yeah, yeah.] | 84.0730 |
59 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 83.8119 | [You know,] so to that extent, yeah. [Did I s-] | 86.4727 |
60 | LES_int_01 | 85.9429 | [Was it s-] was it something that affected your friends as you got older, into high school and things like that? Did- were there [people who got] kind of caught up into it? | 92.9596 |
61 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 91.0748 | [<sigh>] | 91.7089 |
62 | | 94.4327 | Yeah, but what happened was | 96.1258 |
64 | | 96.3625 | as I- | 97.2904 |
66 | | 97.9286 | as I went through school, | 99.4021 |
68 | | 100.0629 | I became | 101.3429 |
70 | | 102.1099 | s- for- for lack of any other words, segregated. | 104.6606 |
72 | | 105.0829 | Because I was part of that, | 106.5151 |
74 | | 106.7629 | um, | 107.4157 |
76 | | 108.0625 | that [gifted program- the talented and gifted program.] | 111.1167 |
77 | LES_int_01 | 108.6569 | [You doing so well in school, yeah.] | 111.1634 |
78 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 111.4804 | So | 112.2583 |
80 | | 113.1498 | they s- I s- j- | 114.1197 |
82 | | 114.6605 | I- when I st- went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/, | 116.7953 |
84 | | 117.4017 | the | 117.5829 |
86 | | 117.8300 | people in my class, | 119.0704 |
88 | | 119.6019 | there were a few people who went to the junior high school, | 122.6688 |
90 | | 123.0232 | but they weren't in my class. And my class stayed to the- | 125.6298 |
92 | | 125.8803 | together for the two years that I was there. | 127.8620 |
94 | | 128.2164 | And they were from other parts of the city, like from the Upper | 131.6263 |
95 | LES_int_01 | 131.6263 | [Yeah.] | 132.0947 |
96 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 132.0201 | [West Side.] | 132.7335 |
97 | | 132.9480 | What was interesting was that they had two, | 135.3447 |
99 | | 135.9322 | um, | 136.6830 |
101 | | 137.3731 | S-P programs. | 138.6821 |
103 | | 139.0178 | And it's- it's funny, I wonder if they think that children don't notice this, | 142.1873 |
105 | | 142.5010 | but in the two programs, one was white, | 145.1529 |
107 | | 145.6385 | all white kids. | 146.5244 |
109 | | 146.8962 | And they | 147.5463 |
111 | | 147.7889 | they took the French classes, | 149.3349 |
113 | | 149.5074 | and started them on French. | 150.8223 |
115 | | 151.2933 | And then the other class | 152.7288 |
117 | | 152.8454 | every- was everybody else. | 154.1544 |
119 | | 154.3515 | Right. | 154.7199 |
121 | | 155.1628 | So | 155.9263 |
123 | | 156.2200 | we were- and of course I was in the everybody else, but my everybody else class wasn't all black, because this is a very diverse city. [So it] was everybody in this [class.] | 165.7777 |
124 | LES_int_01 | 162.6955 | [Yeah.] | 163.1657 |
126 | | 165.5865 | [Yeah.] | 165.8896 |
127 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 166.2067 | Um, | 166.9807 |
129 | | 167.6556 | [and-] | 168.4343 |
130 | LES_int_01 | 168.2151 | [But no] French for you guys? | 169.5394 |
131 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 169.5580 | no, we took Spanish. | 170.7451 |
133 | | 171.3759 | <laugh> | 173.5348 |
135 | | 174.0198 | But the- | 174.4581 |
137 | | 174.6493 | but the great thing about it is, like, I remember there was this guy named /RD-NAME-1/ who was Indian. | 179.6653 |
139 | | 180.0942 | And this in the sixties, you know, and, | 182.1260 |
141 | | 182.4571 | um, I don't know if you've heard of Baba Olatunji? He's a African [drummer.] | 186.2153 |
142 | LES_int_01 | 185.9309 | [Uh.] | 186.7813 |
143 | | 187.2592 | Yes, I think so. | 188.3520 |
144 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 188.4389 | He- he's since died, but his son, | 191.3100 |
146 | | 192.0700 | um, he had I think | 193.3803 |
148 | | 193.6274 | three daughters | 194.9937 |
150 | | 196.1914 | and one son. | 197.1752 |
152 | | 197.2787 | And his son Kwame | 198.5135 |
154 | | 199.1004 | was in my class. [And] we were t- | 201.5944 |
155 | LES_int_01 | 200.1209 | [Cool.] | 200.5173 |
156 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 201.8695 | I stayed in touch with him | 203.3977 |
158 | | 203.9119 | through high school. | 205.3800 |
160 | | 205.7950 | He ended up going to Harvard. | 207.5803 |
162 | | 207.8694 | His father, I found out later, went to- | 210.1402 |
164 | | 210.6035 | to Morehouse. | 211.6270 |
166 | | 212.1773 | And like, fast forward- and I remember going to his house, he- they had a | 216.6617 |
168 | | 217.0254 | fabulous apartment. | 218.4149 |
170 | | 219.0671 | on Riverside. | 219.7712 |
172 | | 219.9437 | In hindsight, | 220.9882 |
173 | LES_int_01 | 220.9882 | [Wow.] | 221.5378 |
174 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 221.2487 | [He-] I realized that he liked me. He had a crush on me. I [didn't know that then, I was clueless. I wish I was] a little bit [smarter.] | 228.4096 |
175 | LES_int_01 | 224.0971 | [Oh.] | 225.2395 |
177 | | 225.7198 | [<laugh>] | 226.9554 |
179 | | 228.2557 | [<laugh>] | 229.5978 |
180 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 229.3888 | [But he] liked me. | 230.5825 |
181 | | 230.9170 | And he invited me to his house, and I remember going and it was like, this formal dining room. I didn't even know how to act or how to eat or anything. And we had these, like, | 239.1451 |
183 | | 239.2989 | beautiful china plates and | 240.8983 |
185 | | 241.2061 | there were all these people. His family, and his mother and in this beautiful African dress, [and his father was] there, and it was all very, you know, formal. I'm like, okay. | 249.7139 |
186 | LES_int_01 | 245.4766 | [Oh.] | 246.2460 |
187 | | 249.7186 | [<laugh>] | 250.7678 |
188 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 250.5605 | [And] | 251.3320 |
189 | | 251.5371 | fast forward and years later I saw him, you know, off and on like, after college and we were | 257.2246 |
191 | | 257.5510 | working and doing our thing, | 258.7062 |
193 | | 259.5024 | And he, | 260.3974 |
195 | | 260.8697 | um, | 261.7836 |
197 | | 262.1613 | <ts> he died. I had heard [through- and I] couldn't figure out- | 265.9506 |
198 | LES_int_01 | 264.1564 | [Hm.] | 264.7296 |
199 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 266.0798 | I don't remember who told me, | 267.1885 |
201 | | 267.6629 | but he died. He died in like, this- like, mysterious drowning [accident.] | 272.3627 |
202 | LES_int_01 | 272.0960 | [Oh.] | 272.5204 |
203 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 272.9860 | And | 273.8020 |
205 | | 273.9232 | it broke my heart. | 275.1002 |
207 | | 275.2335 | And I d- cause I had seen him like, I- maybe a few months or a year before [whatever.] | 280.2309 |
208 | LES_int_01 | 280.0583 | [Oh,] no. | 280.8370 |
209 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 280.8510 | And | 281.4722 |
211 | | 281.6891 | I felt like I didn't have a way of grieving. | 283.8760 |
213 | | 284.5334 | And fast forward, I was at a friend's wedding. She had a wedding, | 288.7194 |
215 | | 288.8780 | um, | 289.6370 |
217 | | 290.2535 | in | 290.9996 |
219 | | 291.1207 | someone's house. It was one of these home-grown weddings, and it was in someone's house. | 294.9111 |
221 | | 295.4427 | And | 296.2307 |
223 | | 296.5512 | th- this friend was a friend through friends, and we became friends. | 300.0623 |
225 | | 300.4069 | And her husband, it turns out to be, went to Morehouse. | 303.5402 |
227 | | 304.4029 | And her | 306.1035 |
229 | | 306.5931 | brother | 307.3299 |
231 | | 307.4371 | went to Morehouse. | 308.5702 |
233 | | 308.6868 | And her brother | 309.6100 |
235 | | 309.7453 | was Spike- is Spike Lee. | 311.2513 |
237 | | 312.2066 | And it turns [out,] | 313.3257 |
238 | LES_int_01 | 313.2294 | [Whoa.] | 313.6848 |
239 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 313.5856 | [that] Spike | 314.7746 |
240 | | 315.3481 | and Kwame | 316.2349 |
242 | | 316.8496 | were friends. | 317.8002 |
244 | | 318.3091 | And they were like, best friends. | 319.8439 |
245 | LES_int_01 | 319.8419 | Huh. | 320.2942 |
246 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 320.3735 | And her m- | 321.0449 |
248 | | 321.1683 | and his- | 322.1827 |
250 | | 322.8634 | Kwame's mother officiated at the wedding, which was Spike's sister's [wedding.] | 327.1614 |
251 | LES_int_01 | 326.9049 | [Oh] my [gosh.] | 328.1033 |
252 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 327.9354 | [And] | 328.7234 |
253 | | 330.3088 | she- <exhale> | 331.0922 |
255 | | 331.3626 | It was like this- if- it's like it all came [back together. It was] really weird. | 334.9325 |
256 | LES_int_01 | 333.4841 | [Yeah.] | 334.3363 |
257 | | 334.9325 | That's [amazing.] | 336.0236 |
258 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 335.2828 | [But what I found] out was, and this is their story so- | 338.3404 |
259 | | 338.7368 | but, | 339.1984 |
261 | | 339.3232 | um, | 339.9516 |
263 | | 340.4434 | because Spike has, I guess, | 342.9004 |
265 | | 343.5762 | there are three or four of them boys and one girl, | 346.2661 |
266 | LES_int_01 | 346.2801 | [Okay.] | 346.7137 |
267 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 346.6018 | [and] the /RD-NAME-4/ had three or four girls, | 349.1990 |
268 | | 349.8832 | and one boy, | 350.6806 |
269 | LES_int_01 | 350.7179 | Okay. | 351.1981 |
270 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 351.2028 | they put the families t- | 352.4711 |
272 | | 352.6017 | together. And the fathers were both- are both [musicians.] | 355.5985 |
273 | LES_int_01 | 355.4261 | [Okay.] | 355.8597 |
274 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 355.8597 | Spike's father is still alive, but Kwame's isn't. | 357.8042 |
275 | | 358.1725 | And they had the boy- the families came together and they played often. | 361.6848 |
276 | LES_int_01 | 361.7151 | [Yeah.] | 362.1580 |
277 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 362.0741 | [So] as I was playing with | 364.4454 |
278 | | 364.6201 | Kwame, | 365.2169 |
280 | | 365.7671 | in junior high school, he was playing with Spike. | 368.3071 |
282 | | 368.5916 | Spike n- I knew in | 370.6292 |
284 | | 371.0349 | college, because Spike went to Morehouse. | 373.2392 |
286 | | 373.8967 | So it was like all of these little threads came [together,] | 377.5803 |
287 | LES_int_01 | 377.0015 | [Amazing.] | 377.7009 |
288 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 378.4977 | you know, like twenty years [later.] | 380.5307 |
289 | LES_int_01 | 380.2795 | [Yeah.] | 381.1198 |
290 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 380.6846 | [You know, it] was so weird. [So] weird. | 382.9134 |
291 | LES_int_01 | 381.9056 | [Yeah.] | 382.3765 |
292 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 383.2998 | But, um, | 384.3868 |
294 | | 384.6381 | that was just a- a- | 385.7059 |
296 | | 385.8307 | a- story out | 387.0848 |
297 | LES_int_01 | 387.2889 | [Wow, that's interesting.] | 388.5816 |
298 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 387.3832 | [in- in space.] | 388.4557 |
299 | | 388.7401 | But it was, it was a s- really kind of weird. But- | 391.2163 |
300 | LES_int_01 | 391.2581 | So from that junior high school then, where did you go [on for high school?] | 394.3812 |
301 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 393.5043 | [<ts>] | 393.6209 |
303 | | 393.7468 | [from junior high school] I went /RD-SCHOOL-5/. | 396.6704 |
304 | LES_int_01 | 396.6704 | Oh you [did?] | 397.3792 |
305 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 397.2766 | [Yeah.] | 398.1986 |
306 | LES_int_01 | 397.9188 | [What was] that like? | 398.7581 |
307 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 399.1405 | Oh, it was great. There was a- um, an annex where you went for tenth [grade] | 403.7137 |
308 | LES_int_01 | 403.4630 | [Right, right.] | 404.4060 |
309 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 403.9706 | [that] was down on- well, I don't know the name of that street. It's down below- past [Grand.] | 408.3291 |
310 | LES_int_01 | 408.0686 | [Yeah.] | 408.9953 |
311 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 408.7168 | [But you know] that- [that-] | 409.9924 |
312 | LES_int_01 | 409.4715 | [Like, Madison] or [something.] | 411.0346 |
313 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 410.5247 | [Madison.] But taking us into that neighborhood, | 413.3691 |
314 | | 413.6862 | that neigborhood- we didn't even talk about that neighborhood. That neighborhood was so much fun | 417.5790 |
316 | | 417.8775 | outside of the food, | 419.0186 |
317 | LES_int_01 | 419.4196 | [Yeah.] | 419.9246 |
318 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 419.5793 | [like, there used] to- there's a bialy shop down there, [now.] | 422.3106 |
319 | LES_int_01 | 421.9702 | [Yeah.] | 422.5158 |
320 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 422.6323 | Right? [That bialy] shop used to be on Fourteenth Street. | 425.2243 |
321 | LES_int_01 | 423.0194 | [Mm-hm.] | 423.3938 |
322 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 425.4807 | Between A | 426.6911 |
324 | | 427.2327 | and B, where the pizzeria is. | 429.2471 |
325 | LES_int_01 | 429.2890 | Huh. | 429.6852 |
326 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 431.3547 | You know, [like, I wish I could recreate that block. I knew there was a | 434.5202 |
327 | LES_int_01 | 431.7877 | [Yeah.] | 432.1514 |
328 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 434.8745 | /Shraff's- Shriff's?/ Candy store. | 437.6250 |
330 | | 438.1612 | A toy store, there was a Woolworths, there was a bialy shop. | 441.8437 |
332 | | 443.1539 | I'm trying to remember what was on that street. | 444.8499 |
334 | | 445.4002 | But, um, | 446.4540 |
336 | | 446.6825 | so I went to school down there, everybody was down there. It was kind of cool because the Essex Markets were still alive and [well,] | 453.2092 |
337 | LES_int_01 | 453.1620 | [Right.] | 453.5770 |
338 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 453.5770 | on both sides of the [street.] | 455.3302 |
339 | LES_int_01 | 455.0784 | [Right.] | 455.6333 |
340 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 455.6706 | <ts> We used to go down there- | 457.1254 |
342 | | 457.3492 | not- we didn't do our shopping, we did some but I don't remember my mother going down there. I'm trying to remember where did she shop? | 463.0087 |
344 | | 463.4650 | My mother used to sew, | 464.7770 |
346 | | 465.0504 | so she [would buy-] there were | 466.9383 |
347 | LES_int_01 | 465.5907 | [Oh.] | 466.5186 |
348 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 467.0502 | tons of fabric [stores] | 468.9253 |
349 | LES_int_01 | 468.2998 | [Right.] | 469.0692 |
350 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 469.5262 | down there. | 470.2763 |
351 | LES_int_01 | 470.2763 | [Yes.] | 470.8545 |
352 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 470.4083 | [She would] buy | 471.6192 |
353 | | 472.0848 | fabric and make our clothes, and she [would buy yarn.] She was | 476.1150 |
354 | LES_int_01 | 474.5701 | [Wow.] | 475.3255 |
355 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 476.3461 | a- this huge knitter, and there was | 477.7916 |
357 | | 478.0201 | these yarn stores. One | 479.4829 |
359 | | 480.0192 | right on the corner of Essex and | 482.3273 |
361 | | 482.4521 | between Delancey and the block south, | 484.2749 |
363 | | 484.6401 | across the street from Seward Park. Cause we went passed there the other day and I was like, oh, wow. | 488.6365 |
365 | | 488.8914 | <ts> [Bell Yarns] was there, Sunray Yarns, | 491.2408 |
366 | LES_int_01 | 489.0726 | [Oh.] | 489.6415 |
367 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 491.7864 | and we used to go down and buy [yarns.] | 493.4970 |
368 | LES_int_01 | 493.3205 | [Amazing.] | 494.1166 |
369 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 493.6503 | [And-] school, I mean, | 495.0771 |
370 | | 495.4362 | high school was kind of interesting. I did, | 497.4225 |
372 | | 497.9355 | um, | 498.7075 |
374 | | 499.4356 | I- | 499.8693 |
376 | | 500.1118 | I w- wanted to be an actress, so I | 502.4012 |
378 | | 502.5878 | went to- | 503.7589 |
380 | | 504.6161 | I auditioned for this school, it was a performing arts school but it was part time. | 509.9305 |
381 | LES_int_01 | 509.9772 | Okay. | 510.3922 |
382 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 510.4015 | So it- | 510.8339 |
384 | | 510.9598 | it's still there, someone just told me recently it was still there. /RD-SCHOOL-8/. | 515.3522 |
386 | | 515.6646 | It's in /RD-SCHOOL-5/. | 516.9011 |
388 | | 517.3420 | [So I] | 518.0321 |
389 | LES_int_01 | 517.4492 | [Sounds familiar.] | 518.5232 |
390 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 518.4238 | [did] my academics in the morning at /RD-SCHOOL-3/. | 522.5038 |
391 | LES_int_01 | 522.5038 | Okay. | 523.0154 |
392 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 523.0294 | <ts> And then I didn't really kind of mingle with | 525.8831 |
394 | | 525.9857 | everyone, | 526.6665 |
396 | | 527.0920 | but also by that time, I was younger than everyone. | 530.5867 |
398 | | 530.9138 | So with my birthday being in November and having | 534.0506 |
400 | | 534.3584 | gone through this accelerated program in junior high school, | 537.5611 |
402 | | 538.0507 | I graduated from school when I was sixteen. | 540.3955 |
404 | | 540.8478 | So | 541.5659 |
406 | | 541.8457 | I was kind of young and having- I think, this is m- | 544.9685 |
408 | | 545.1830 | my view, having been exposed to | 547.5611 |
410 | | 548.6649 | so much with so few boundaries, | 551.0384 |
412 | | 551.5559 | I didn't really get into too much trouble. | 553.5610 |
413 | LES_int_01 | 553.8908 | Right. | 554.4690 |
414 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 554.6228 | Cause I had seen so much and I wasn't really interested, so [since nothing] was a secret what was there to get [into?] | 560.2398 |
415 | LES_int_01 | 557.6391 | [Right.] | 558.1800 |
417 | | 560.0591 | [R- yeah, yeah.] | 560.9731 |
418 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 560.8378 | [So] I didn't really | 562.2973 |
419 | | 562.5398 | get into [too much.] (laughing) | 564.5409 |
420 | LES_int_01 | 563.4944 | [Yeah.] | 564.1954 |
422 | | 564.3757 | [Okay.] | 564.9119 |
423 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 565.5508 | I do remember when they built Haven Plaza. I'm going off on a [tangent. But I do remember] when they built Hazen Plaza [downtown.] | 571.7691 |
424 | LES_int_01 | 568.9680 | [No, that's okay.] | 569.8120 |
426 | | 571.6852 | [Yeah.] | 572.0945 |
427 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 572.3279 | That was considered, | 573.2892 |
429 | | 573.3918 | you know | 573.9230 |
431 | | 574.2800 | middle | 574.9040 |
433 | | 575.3456 | class, middle income. | 576.9310 |
435 | | 577.5918 | Ha-ha. | 578.4311 |
436 | LES_int_01 | 578.7016 | [<laugh>] | 580.0958 |
437 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 578.9627 | [<laugh>] | 580.1937 |
438 | | 580.3849 | And now I think that it's looked on as if it's no better | 583.6483 |
440 | | 583.8115 | or different from the projects, right? | 585.6183 |
442 | | 586.5153 | I think so. | 587.4862 |
444 | | 587.8722 | [Um,] | 588.5810 |
445 | LES_int_01 | 587.9375 | [Mm-hm.] | 588.4691 |
446 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 589.2931 | you know, it's interesting | 590.5568 |
448 | | 590.7573 | i- perspective. | 591.8997 |
449 | LES_int_01 | 591.8997 | Yeah. | 592.5618 |
450 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 592.7577 | I'm trying to think what else do I remember. Do you have any other questions? | 595.8672 |
451 | LES_int_01 | 595.8672 | Um, I'm enjoying getting sort of y- your trajectory. So you went away to college | 600.2636 |
452 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 600.3849 | <ts> [In seventy-four.] | 601.6939 |
453 | LES_int_01 | 600.4781 | [and-] | 600.6952 |
454 | | 601.6939 | [Okay.] | 602.2834 |
455 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 601.9643 | [So a] lot of the- the unrest | 604.6082 |
456 | | 605.0185 | that I saw, | 606.2495 |
458 | | 606.9523 | like, I was too young to get into like, the flower power- I missed [all of that.] | 611.8518 |
459 | LES_int_01 | 610.9738 | [Right. <laugh>] | 612.7672 |
460 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 612.5845 | [I] missed all of it. I was really young, I was like eleven when they were like, goo- well I was wearing go-go [boots.] | 618.5697 |
461 | LES_int_01 | 618.4765 | [Right.] | 619.0640 |
462 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 618.8728 | [So] I didn't have the advantage of getting into any of the st- [fun stuff that people were] doing b- at that time. | 624.6981 |
463 | LES_int_01 | 622.2552 | [<laugh>] | 623.5149 |
464 | | 624.8820 | [Right.] | 625.2477 |
465 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 625.1478 | [Um,] and by the time- at that time, and by the time I | 628.8548 |
466 | | 630.1462 | by the time | 631.0870 |
468 | | 631.4647 | I got into to college, people were pulling back from it. | 634.1179 |
470 | | 635.1105 | They [had- cause] that was seventy-four. | 636.9414 |
471 | LES_int_01 | 635.3896 | [Yeah.] | 635.7860 |
473 | | 636.8491 | [Right.] | 637.3367 |
474 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 637.2035 | [So] there was still, you know, a lot of the drugs and stuff, but not | 640.5106 |
475 | | 640.8725 | the way it was [in the sixties] and early [seventies.] Yeah. | 644.2711 |
476 | LES_int_01 | 641.7019 | [Right.] | 642.2381 |
478 | | 642.9767 | [Right, right.] | 643.8095 |
479 | | 644.4903 | And so how was it- so did you come back to the neighborhood right after [college?] | 648.1587 |
480 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 647.8976 | [No,] I didn't come back until nineteen eighty- | 653.1334 |
481 | | 654.5136 | oh jee, | 655.3949 |
483 | | 655.8832 | eighty-five. | 656.8158 |
484 | LES_int_01 | 656.8438 | Oh, okay. So you had a- a break there. | 658.8022 |
485 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 658.8069 | Yeah, d- [I was-] | 660.0052 |
486 | LES_int_01 | 659.4364 | [What were you doing?] | 660.2803 |
487 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 660.2151 | [I-] from seventy-four to seventy-eight, | 662.5452 |
488 | | 663.1234 | I was in college. From | 664.2752 |
490 | | 664.5829 | seventy-eight to eighty-one, | 667.0123 |
492 | | 667.5525 | <ts> I worked at City Corp | 669.1402 |
494 | | 669.2638 | in their credit card division, | 671.0512 |
496 | | 671.1656 | in Towson, Maryland. | 672.9742 |
497 | LES_int_01 | 673.1607 | [Oh.] | 673.8312 |
498 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 673.4825 | [From eighty-one] to eighty-three, I worked for the Federal Reserve Board | 677.1019 |
499 | LES_int_01 | 677.2121 | [Oh.] | 677.7611 |
500 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 677.5292 | [in DC,] | 678.5864 |
501 | LES_int_01 | 678.5864 | Cool. | 678.9967 |
502 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 679.0107 | under the Reagan administration. | 680.7566 |
504 | | 681.1976 | Um, they were d- it's when the Fed had to- was mandated by Congress to start charging, | 686.1623 |
506 | | 686.5773 | <ts> uh, the banks that they support for their services that they provide. | 690.6045 |
508 | | 691.0484 | And then from eighty-three to eighty-four? | 693.6128 |
510 | | 694.0827 | Eighty-three to eighty-four, or eighty-four to eighty-five, | 696.1064 |
512 | | 696.6519 | I was in California, in Los Angeles. I lived out there for a year. [Hated it.] | 700.7733 |
513 | LES_int_01 | 699.8081 | [Oh, really?] | 700.6121 |
514 | | 700.8932 | [<laugh>] | 701.5565 |
515 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 701.4714 | [And] then moved [back.] | 703.0459 |
516 | LES_int_01 | 702.5159 | [And then you moved back.] | 703.4159 |
517 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 703.3086 | [Mm-hm.] | 703.9521 |
518 | LES_int_01 | 703.8402 | [And] did you move back in with your family? | 705.7950 |
519 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 705.9618 | No. | 706.3188 |
521 | | 706.9317 | I moved- <laugh> no. | 709.0993 |
522 | LES_int_01 | 709.1733 | No. [<laugh>] | 710.4509 |
523 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 709.7515 | [I wasn't going] back to the projects. | 711.3275 |
524 | LES_int_01 | 711.5747 | [Okay.] | 711.9337 |
525 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 711.6819 | [I will] say this, | 712.7031 |
526 | | 713.1181 | I hated the [projects.] | 714.3431 |
527 | LES_int_01 | 714.2872 | [You did?] | 714.7815 |
528 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 714.5856 | [I] absolutely hated the concrete, the brick, | 717.1455 |
529 | | 717.5337 | and even though it was, | 719.2612 |
531 | | 719.5643 | at that time, a relatively safe place, | 721.9704 |
533 | | 722.5113 | I never l- warmed to it. I always thought it was scary. | 725.3223 |
534 | LES_int_01 | 725.3363 | <ts> Oh. | 725.9798 |
535 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 726.0544 | You know, I remember going down like, the stairs and thinking, this is creepy. | 729.3504 |
537 | | 729.5043 | You know, I never- | 731.0267 |
539 | | 731.4097 | never liked it. | 732.4313 |
540 | LES_int_01 | 732.4593 | I [see.] | 732.9443 |
541 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 732.8883 | [And] from our apartment | 734.3618 |
542 | | 734.4830 | we could see | 735.6254 |
544 | | 736.6360 | downtown, the World Trade Center. It was when they were built in- from my | 740.5892 |
546 | | 740.9958 | bedroom. | 741.4863 |
548 | | 741.7559 | [And from the] living room you could see the Empire State Building. | 744.5903 |
549 | LES_int_01 | 741.7559 | [Yeah.] | 742.0770 |
550 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 744.9760 | You know, and I just- I always- I /remem-/ | 747.0930 |
552 | | 747.2352 | very vivid- vivid memories of standing in my bedroom | 751.3023 |
554 | | 751.6520 | and looking | 752.3704 |
556 | | 752.9896 | out toward the south, | 754.6169 |
558 | | 754.7289 | and across the street at my school, | 756.6099 |
560 | | 756.9204 | and wondering what was over that horizon. | 759.2903 |
562 | | 759.5397 | And wondering what life would hold for me. | 761.3209 |
563 | LES_int_01 | 761.3256 | [Oh.] | 761.9504 |
564 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 761.4515 | [I just] | 761.8571 |
565 | | 762.2348 | absolutely- | 762.9996 |
567 | | 763.2327 | and it wasn't- | 764.0254 |
569 | | 765.1492 | it wasn't that clear, [you know. I'm articulating] it better than I did as a [child.] | 769.6009 |
570 | LES_int_01 | 766.4634 | [Yeah.] | 767.1131 |
572 | | 769.3212 | [Right.] | 769.8694 |
573 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 769.9553 | But I just- | 770.6548 |
575 | | 770.7900 | I remember having- | 772.0437 |
577 | | 772.4773 | trying to envision my life. That's what it was. And not being able to see myself past forty, | 777.8030 |
579 | | 778.1734 | cause I couldn't imagine | 779.4884 |
581 | | 779.8148 | what it would be [like.] | 780.9852 |
582 | LES_int_01 | 780.8453 | [Right, right.] | 781.8292 |
583 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 781.3349 | [But in some] ways, | 782.7744 |
584 | LES_int_01 | 782.7838 | [Right.] | 783.1848 |
585 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 782.9796 | [that] was probably a blessing for me, | 784.9147 |
586 | | 785.2831 | because if I had to imagine my life in the confines of the limitations that I saw, | 790.3185 |
588 | | 790.6774 | I would've had a very small dream. | 792.7138 |
590 | | 793.2501 | But | 793.7303 |
592 | | 793.8376 | by not allowing myself to [have] a [dream,] | 796.6580 |
593 | LES_int_01 | 795.3345 | [Hm.] | 795.6152 |
595 | | 796.3223 | [Yeah. <laugh>] | 797.5673 |
596 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 796.8916 | [you know,] | 797.5013 |
597 | | 797.7165 | not that I didn't have a dream, but not being able to formulate, [it allowed] for | 801.6513 |
598 | LES_int_01 | 800.8487 | [Yeah.] | 801.2434 |
599 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 801.9637 | almost endless [possibilites.] | 803.8039 |
600 | LES_int_01 | 803.5059 | [Yeah.] | 804.0934 |
601 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 804.2006 | So- and that's what happened. [That's kind of my-] | 806.8259 |
602 | LES_int_01 | 805.7767 | [That's great.] | 806.4855 |
603 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 807.2502 | the way I moved through life, for me, | 809.5996 |
604 | LES_int_01 | 809.7162 | [Yeah.] | 810.1032 |
605 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 809.9820 | [was,] um, | 811.4739 |
606 | | 811.7619 | very much by happenstance. That I allowed things to happen to me. | 815.4711 |
607 | LES_int_01 | 815.5902 | Okay. | 816.0658 |
608 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 816.1590 | Um, | 816.7816 |
610 | | 816.9937 | but I must say that I g- I- | 819.0488 |
612 | | 819.4777 | I carried the Lower East Side with me wherever. If you look | 822.8098 |
614 | | 822.9410 | wherever I lived, I always chose places | 825.8273 |
616 | | 826.4288 | that, | 827.1423 |
618 | | 828.0236 | as much as possible, would look like the Lower East Side. | 831.0585 |
619 | LES_int_01 | 831.2214 | [Huh.] | 831.5102 |
620 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 831.3569 | [So] it'd have to have a diverse [community,] | 833.2814 |
621 | LES_int_01 | 833.2068 | [Yeah.] | 833.6498 |
622 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 833.7337 | <ts> it had to be | 834.5264 |
624 | | 834.6523 | pretty much in t- in the city. | 836.3263 |
626 | | 836.7925 | Um, and it had to have, | 838.9222 |
628 | | 839.5237 | you know, a- | 840.3118 |
630 | | 840.5542 | I had to have the ability to walk. | 842.1583 |
631 | LES_int_01 | 842.4240 | [Mm.] | 842.9421 |
632 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 842.4660 | [So in] Atlanta, I lived in- I can't remember the name of that- | 846.3623 |
633 | | 846.5494 | of that- | 847.1090 |
635 | | 847.2178 | area of town now, | 848.2840 |
637 | | 848.6291 | <ts> but it was always- it became like, the hot spot. Um, | 852.6276 |
639 | | 853.8875 | what was the name of it? | 855.0620 |
641 | | 857.0996 | <ts> It's off of Piedmont Park. | 858.8498 |
643 | | 859.2666 | But that became, | 860.5582 |
645 | | 860.8427 | you know, where all the college kids were- were living, and it [became] the hip | 864.6748 |
646 | LES_int_01 | 863.5319 | [Right.] | 863.9121 |
647 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 865.2059 | [place to- the Highlands.] | 867.0710 |
648 | LES_int_01 | 865.4225 | [The hip place to live.] | 866.4706 |
649 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 867.4441 | That [became the hip] place | 869.1553 |
650 | LES_int_01 | 867.8590 | [Okay.] | 868.3859 |
651 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 869.4758 | to [live.] | 870.1566 |
652 | LES_int_01 | 870.0214 | [Okay.] | 870.4503 |
653 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 870.6648 | Um, when I lived in | 872.6255 |
655 | | 872.8004 | Baltimore, I lived right downtown on Biddle Street, | 875.8820 |
657 | | 876.1984 | Which was | 876.7813 |
659 | | 876.9258 | the hip place, it was [kind of] edgy. | 878.8329 |
660 | LES_int_01 | 877.9403 | [Mm.] | 878.2734 |
661 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 879.0288 | It was the same thing, I mean, it was all- it was [very] consistent | 882.2362 |
662 | LES_int_01 | 881.0052 | [Right.] | 881.5263 |
663 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 882.6652 | in terms of | 883.5791 |
665 | | 883.7550 | where I feel comfortable. | 885.6062 |
666 | LES_int_01 | 885.7181 | [Yeah.] | 886.1378 |
667 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 886.0772 | [It-] when I lived in | 887.6486 |
668 | | 887.7791 | DC, I lived in, um, | 890.3929 |
670 | | 890.9393 | Fort- | 891.8486 |
672 | | 892.9630 | oh God, I'm trying to think of the name of the street. | 895.2758 |
674 | | 895.6995 | It's right across the bridge from the national | 897.9877 |
676 | | 898.0902 | park. | 898.7291 |
678 | | 899.3399 | [I don't remember.] | 900.0333 |
679 | LES_int_01 | 899.3399 | [Huh. Mm-hm.] | 900.4124 |
680 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 900.2585 | [But it] was the same | 901.4459 |
681 | | 901.6900 | thing, [you know,] where it's very diverse community | 904.6829 |
682 | LES_int_01 | 902.2582 | [Yeah.] | 902.6863 |
683 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 905.5409 | kind of on the edge, some people would say a little dangerous, | 908.2581 |
685 | | 908.4493 | always. | 909.0601 |
686 | LES_int_01 | 909.1021 | Yeah. | 909.5404 |
687 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 909.5497 | And then when I, um, | 911.9045 |
689 | | 912.7298 | lived- when I moved back, | 914.6083 |
691 | | 914.7482 | my | 915.4869 |
693 | | 915.7588 | high school teacher, | 916.9059 |
695 | | 917.7825 | who had always been like a surrogate mother to me, | 920.5383 |
696 | LES_int_01 | 920.5383 | Mm-hm. | 920.9206 |
697 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 921.1864 | um, had an apartment up in Harlem. And she said, you know, I'm going to do my PhD in DC, | 926.5195 |
699 | | 926.9298 | my son is living in my two bedroom apartment, go on and move in there. | 930.2252 |
701 | | 930.4910 | I mean, I later found out that she was trying to set me up with her son. | 933.2991 |
702 | LES_int_01 | 933.5865 | [<laugh>] | 935.0507 |
703 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 933.8430 | [But, it t- and we became] really good [friends-] | 936.5328 |
704 | LES_int_01 | 936.2903 | [Didn't] work? [<laugh>] | 937.7822 |
705 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 937.0178 | [didn't work out,] no. | 938.2394 |
706 | LES_int_01 | 938.6205 | [<laugh>] | 939.2286 |
707 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 938.8443 | [It didn't] work out. | 939.5656 |
708 | LES_int_01 | 940.0613 | [That's funny.] | 940.9380 |
709 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 940.1126 | [But, um,] | 941.2177 |
710 | | 941.3623 | <ts> so I lived there. And then she had another apartment, as people are wont to do, on | 945.9220 |
712 | | 946.3836 | Central Park West, so I lived there for a while. | 948.5646 |
714 | | 948.9702 | And I put my name on the waiting list, since- cause you always go [back to your neighborhood.] | 952.3342 |
715 | LES_int_01 | 951.3250 | [To Stuyvesant.] | 952.2146 |
716 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 952.6020 | You always go- I think you always go home. | 954.4567 |
718 | | 954.9334 | And now with my son, I'm doing the same thing. I'm- I'm- | 958.6998 |
720 | | 959.4645 | I am tickled that, | 961.5873 |
722 | | 961.7789 | um, he has the opportunity to see what I saw, | 965.3852 |
724 | | 965.9493 | to have the experience that I [have.] | 967.8698 |
725 | LES_int_01 | 967.7718 | [Yeah.] | 968.2475 |
726 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 968.2475 | It's in some ways it's unfortunate cause Stuyvesant Town is not that diverse. | 971.9548 |
727 | | 972.4341 | You know, it's mostly white. | 973.7010 |
728 | LES_int_01 | 973.7384 | [Mm-hm.] | 974.1767 |
729 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 973.8783 | [And] I think that, | 975.9217 |
730 | | 976.1025 | um, | 976.6946 |
732 | | 977.6273 | <ts> | 977.7159 |
734 | | 978.3967 | I think he feels it. | 979.5518 |
736 | | 979.6823 | I feel b- | 980.2232 |
738 | | 980.3398 | you know, I feel it for him. | 981.9299 |
739 | LES_int_01 | 982.0651 | [Uh-huh.] | 982.5221 |
740 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 982.1770 | [And he feels] it. We talk about it. We've been talking about it since he was | 985.2772 |
741 | | 985.4217 | four. | 985.8367 |
742 | LES_int_01 | 985.8367 | [<laugh>] | 987.3895 |
743 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 986.3963 | [/You know./] (laughing) | 987.1284 |
744 | | 987.5561 | And he's sensitive to it, but | 989.6676 |
746 | | 989.8828 | [I think he's also lucky.] | 991.2351 |
747 | LES_int_01 | 989.8828 | [So how will his-] | 990.9629 |
748 | | 991.3635 | how will his experience be different from yours, I mean, in terms of the neighborhood? What's- | 995.8734 |
750 | | 996.0086 | i- i- it's obviously very different now then it was when you grew up there, | 999.4974 |
752 | | 1000.2139 | so what will he- | 1001.2571 |
754 | | 1001.3644 | what will his experience be like, do you think? | 1003.3957 |
755 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1003.6772 | I don't think- I- i- I don't know. | 1006.0572 |
757 | | 1006.2884 | Um, | 1006.9516 |
759 | | 1007.7292 | the first six years- cause he's six, | 1009.5288 |
761 | | 1009.8822 | the first six years is- is that he's | 1012.1250 |
763 | | 1012.3116 | kind of in a bubble, | 1013.4260 |
765 | | 1013.8177 | you know, in some ways. He's [not-] | 1015.4228 |
766 | LES_int_01 | 1015.3558 | [Mm-hm.] | 1015.7195 |
767 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1015.7521 | I mean, I was kind of scrappy. | 1017.3906 |
769 | | 1018.1942 | You- I remember, um, | 1020.3438 |
771 | | 1022.6180 | I remembered | 1023.6672 |
773 | | 1023.8764 | as- as much as I say there d- you know d- and I'm kind of backtracking now, | 1028.9816 |
775 | | 1029.6350 | i- I don't know how to- to express this, | 1031.4203 |
777 | | 1032.1757 | in hindsight it was | 1033.8925 |
779 | | 1034.0815 | th- | 1034.2401 |
781 | | 1034.4079 | it wasn't | 1035.4244 |
783 | | 1036.4689 | as bad as it is today, in terms of the guns and the violence. | 1039.7423 |
785 | | 1040.4031 | But it was that it had an edge to [it.] | 1042.9537 |
786 | LES_int_01 | 1042.8745 | [Right.] | 1043.3432 |
787 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1043.3501 | You know, and I felt that, | 1044.8469 |
789 | | 1044.9541 | and I think my sister felt that. [And we] weren't- | 1047.6900 |
790 | LES_int_01 | 1046.8180 | [Mm-hm.] | 1047.2936 |
791 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1048.2775 | I think that we weren't- | 1049.3282 |
793 | | 1049.6997 | we were part of the community, but we weren't part of the community. | 1052.4968 |
795 | | 1052.9631 | You know, a lot of the people that I grew with, I see them now, I say hi, but | 1057.4382 |
797 | | 1057.7739 | we were never close, we were never friends. I was always more school- bound to [school than I was] | 1063.0050 |
798 | LES_int_01 | 1061.9978 | [Okay.] | 1062.6523 |
799 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1063.5167 | to the [projects.] | 1064.7546 |
800 | LES_int_01 | 1064.5751 | [Right.] | 1065.0834 |
801 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1065.1114 | But at the same time I was very much bound to the neighborhood. I loved the [neighborhood.] | 1069.3819 |
802 | LES_int_01 | 1069.2592 | [Oh, interesting.] | 1070.2544 |
803 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1070.1094 | [So] my son, I don't- I think is more bound to the neighborhood, | 1073.7125 |
804 | | 1074.3466 | to the community, | 1075.3248 |
805 | LES_int_01 | 1075.3445 | [Yeah.] | 1075.6523 |
806 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1075.6243 | [you] know. W- we interact more, | 1077.9831 |
807 | | 1078.5100 | um, | 1079.1295 |
809 | | 1079.2321 | and not that I didn't, but I think that it's different. | 1082.2723 |
811 | | 1082.6546 | I'm trying to figure out how. | 1084.2387 |
813 | | 1084.8682 | I think that | 1085.8986 |
815 | | 1086.2485 | what he's seeing is a more affluent | 1088.5429 |
817 | | 1089.0822 | [neighborhood outside] of Stuyvesant [Town.] | 1091.9093 |
818 | LES_int_01 | 1089.6837 | [Yeah.] | 1090.3193 |
820 | | 1091.7909 | [Yeah.] | 1092.2437 |
821 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1092.3969 | You know, there are million dollar [co-ops down there.] | 1095.3644 |
822 | LES_int_01 | 1094.5791 | [The gentrification- the gentrification] that's [w-] | 1096.3640 |
823 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1096.2991 | [Very much so.] | 1097.5378 |
824 | LES_int_01 | 1096.5232 | [what is happening.] | 1097.1717 |
826 | | 1097.3633 | [Yeah.] | 1097.8559 |
827 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1098.0617 | You know, um, | 1099.1388 |
829 | | 1099.5199 | it is- it is becoming less diverse, | 1102.0005 |
831 | | 1102.4062 | but that- | 1103.1663 |
833 | | 1104.3227 | and it had become less diverse, because, | 1106.8540 |
835 | | 1107.2457 | um, | 1107.9016 |
837 | | 1108.1829 | the Jews, the Italians, the Poles, moved out of the [projects.] | 1111.7121 |
838 | LES_int_01 | 1111.5489 | [Right.] | 1112.0012 |
839 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1112.0338 | You know, and it became mostly black and [Hispanic,] | 1114.6531 |
840 | LES_int_01 | 1114.5365 | [Yeah.] | 1114.9487 |
841 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1114.9487 | right. | 1115.3942 |
842 | LES_int_01 | 1115.3942 | Yeah. | 1115.7395 |
843 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1115.7582 | The P- uh, the Poles moved, and the Eastern Europeans | 1118.5553 |
845 | | 1118.8024 | moved out of the Lower East Side. There are still | 1121.3197 |
847 | | 1121.5436 | a [group.] | 1122.3176 |
848 | LES_int_01 | 1121.9586 | [A little] pocket. [Yeah.] | 1123.3024 |
849 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1122.9145 | [<ts> But] not, | 1123.9158 |
850 | | 1124.1168 | you know, | 1124.7612 |
852 | | 1124.8582 | they've either moved down to and are still on Grand Street- but even that's changing. | 1129.7710 |
853 | LES_int_01 | 1129.9553 | [Yeah.] | 1130.3539 |
854 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1130.0415 | [A lot of] people are dying off, their children are not holding on to those apartments, | 1134.1122 |
855 | LES_int_01 | 1134.1355 | Right. | 1134.5607 |
856 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1134.5831 | um, or they're moving. A lot [of people] move to Florida. | 1137.2584 |
857 | LES_int_01 | 1136.0740 | [Right.] | 1136.4136 |
858 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1137.5568 | You know, a lot of people got their Archie Bunker [and are k- in Queens.] | 1141.1086 |
859 | LES_int_01 | 1139.8649 | [Right, right. <laugh>] | 1141.1786 |
860 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1141.6169 | Um, so | 1142.8945 |
862 | | 1143.5302 | I think that- so it became, | 1145.7435 |
864 | | 1145.9067 | especially on the northern part of the Lower East Side | 1148.4188 |
866 | | 1148.5493 | black and [Hispanic] | 1149.9156 |
867 | LES_int_01 | 1149.8689 | [Yeah.] | 1150.2071 |
868 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1150.2886 | and lots of drugs. | 1151.4293 |
870 | | 1151.6890 | So it became very, um, | 1154.3120 |
872 | | 1154.9508 | <ts> um, | 1155.8419 |
874 | | 1156.8707 | i- it became | 1158.3675 |
876 | | 1158.8207 | less diverse. | 1159.8975 |
877 | LES_int_01 | 1160.2326 | [Okay.] | 1160.5963 |
878 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1160.3679 | [It was] very diverse when I was growing, it became less [diverse,] | 1162.7120 |
879 | LES_int_01 | 1162.6607 | [Right.] | 1163.0729 |
880 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1163.1969 | and then now it's- the- the group is changing. | 1166.1532 |
882 | | 1166.4563 | Right? | 1166.9273 |
883 | LES_int_01 | 1166.9446 | Mm-hm. | 1167.3083 |
884 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1167.3223 | So it's not, | 1168.5673 |
886 | | 1168.8910 | in this case, | 1169.9155 |
888 | | 1170.0688 | you know, it's- i- | 1171.0060 |
890 | | 1171.2977 | people are being displaced, yeah. | 1172.9638 |
892 | | 1173.5225 | Um, | 1174.3657 |
894 | | 1175.9981 | the neighorhood is- is changing. I- | 1178.1383 |
896 | | 1178.4601 | [in some ways it's k-] | 1179.3174 |
897 | LES_int_01 | 1178.4741 | [What was your] opinion on that? Like, uh- uh, gentrification and, | 1182.0306 |
898 | | 1182.2404 | you know, the fact that some folks do get displaced as a result of that? | 1185.3969 |
899 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1186.4374 | I think that | 1187.8277 |
901 | | 1188.3269 | it's a bigger question- | 1189.0482 |
903 | | 1189.1728 | it's- it's more- that's a big question. | 1191.9100 |
904 | LES_int_01 | 1191.9566 | Yeah. | 1192.3354 |
905 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1192.8192 | And it's interesting because in this, where we're sitting now, | 1196.4830 |
907 | | 1196.9027 | <ts> um, the people in this side is- | 1199.1915 |
909 | | 1199.3407 | they're apart of community development. We deal with a lot of community [groups.] | 1203.0602 |
910 | LES_int_01 | 1202.9538 | [Mm-hm.] | 1203.4226 |
911 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1203.4854 | And we have these discussions all the time. | 1205.5311 |
912 | LES_int_01 | 1205.5300 | /?/ | 1205.9842 |
913 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1206.0627 | It's a very difficult question because | 1208.7112 |
915 | | 1209.1215 | on the one side, there's an absolute | 1211.3724 |
917 | | 1211.4797 | need for affordable housing. | 1213.8298 |
918 | LES_int_01 | 1213.9370 | Right. | 1214.3287 |
919 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1214.3753 | Um, | 1215.1477 |
921 | | 1215.7726 | people deserve- | 1216.7988 |
923 | | 1217.2138 | I mean, this- | 1217.7500 |
925 | | 1218.1593 | for me, | 1218.9111 |
927 | | 1219.1209 | personally, | 1219.9136 |
929 | | 1221.0187 | I would- I- I- | 1222.5049 |
931 | | 1222.9199 | I saw this coming a long time ago and I was disheartened | 1226.3797 |
933 | | 1226.7528 | when- when, um, chains | 1229.0690 |
935 | | 1229.8756 | started coming into the city. | 1231.4890 |
937 | | 1231.6204 | You know, Gaps and to me this is all part of that movement. | 1235.2367 |
938 | LES_int_01 | 1235.2367 | [Okay.] | 1235.6967 |
939 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1235.5731 | [And] New York, | 1236.6962 |
940 | | 1236.8361 | it's losing, or has lost, its uniqueness. | 1239.8144 |
941 | LES_int_01 | 1240.0895 | [Mm-hm.] | 1240.4205 |
942 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1240.2900 | [In] terms of having individual stores and- and real communities. | 1243.7732 |
943 | LES_int_01 | 1244.1440 | Right. | 1244.5634 |
944 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1245.5205 | At the same time, is it better to have better to have drug-infested neighborhoods? | 1249.4886 |
946 | | 1250.2487 | It's like there's no middle [ground.] | 1252.1032 |
947 | LES_int_01 | 1251.8281 | [Yeah.] | 1252.4389 |
948 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1252.5322 | And [I don't- how] do you find that. | 1254.7611 |
949 | LES_int_01 | 1252.8772 | [How do you find that?] | 1253.7683 |
950 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1254.9243 | That's the | 1255.7030 |
952 | | 1255.8056 | the [question.] So | 1257.2441 |
953 | LES_int_01 | 1256.0141 | [Right] | 1256.5736 |
954 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1257.7534 | yeah. D- | 1258.3689 |
956 | | 1258.4808 | it's sad | 1259.4693 |
957 | LES_int_01 | 1259.8330 | [Yeah.] | 1260.3786 |
958 | LES_se0_ag4_f_02 | 1260.0895 | [and] I think that we need to find middle ground. | 1263.3850 |
959 | | 1263.5389 | I don't know how you do that. | 1264.7279 |
961 | | 1264.8818 | I really don't know how you answer that [question.] | 1266.9241 |
962 | LES_int_01 | 1266.8309 | [Yeah.] | 1267.2866 |
963 | | 1267.4370 | I have no- I don't either <laugh>. | 1269.3194 |