LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1ROC_int_010.1981So, um,1.3738
3 1.6789<ts>1.7507 
5 2.2578yeah what part of the city I guess (laughing) where y- did you grow up?5.1279 
8 5.3972Uh, it would be southwest Rochester.7.9711 
10 9.6180And um, I grew up on <exhale> /RD-ADDRESS-5/ Street.14.3440 
12 15.4397Uh,16.0859 
14 16.3776we lived on /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Street.17.7418 
16 18.7918So that was my earliest- uh,21.3182 
18 21.7458you know,22.2080 
20 22.5364my childhood all the way up to, you know,24.7508 
22 24.8530my teenage years.25.8706 
23ROC_int_0126.0366Ah, okay.26.9161
25 27.1046And what was that neighborhood like for like someone who29.8490 
27 30.0734is not from Rochester? How would you describe it?32.1672 
29 32.2435Well, I think early, uh,33.9846
31 34.4034in my life when, uh,35.9598 
33 36.2872attending grade school,37.5484 
35 37.7099uh, the neighborhood was39.2985 
37 40.1160I thinks40.5871 
39 40.9865pretty much diverse42.3544 
41 42.4949at the time,43.2796 
43 43.9527and, um,45.0431 
45 45.3895as I started getting older around maybe seventh, eighth grade, uh, people started moving out of the neighborhood,51.7347 
47 52.3009that, uh, were white and, uh, other ethnicities. And, uh,56.1331 
49 56.9026<ts>56.9538 
51 57.1275what-57.3249 
53 57.5224what tend to happen is that,59.1954 
55 59.2897um,59.7616 
57 61.0418<ts>61.1089 
59 61.2439uh,61.8419 
61 63.6287blacks, uh, basically moved in66.0564 
63 66.4153and so we settled in what was called the third ward at that time.69.9765 
66 72.3799And then, um, you said you grew up there until your teenage years. Where was the next76.6097 
68 76.8726part of Rochester you live in?78.3628 
69ROC_se0_ag3_m_0178.6837Well, the next part of Rochester, it- it sort of varied. Uh, I still was, uh, located, uh,84.2956
71 84.6321uh,85.0866 
73 85.1885pretty much in the Southwest.86.6792 
75 87.1593But, uh, I moved, uh, across town to the Northeast.91.3147 
77 91.9661Um,92.5764 
79 93.4829and I was young at the time, I did a lot of, uh,96.1977 
81 96.7882exploring as, uh, a young person.99.0678 
83 99.5570Uh,100.0281 
85 100.2668sort of troubled as a young-101.9361 
87 103.1836uh, as a young man. So, uh,105.6606 
89 106.1147it took me to, uh, various neighborhoods in the city of Rochester at that time, so.110.0905 
91 110.7187Uh, I-111.2438 
93 111.3567I- I did have the experience, uh, very young, of living in115.4313 
95 116.0820quite a few neighborhoods in the city of Rochester.118.5598 
98 120.0541okay.120.5657 
100 120.9408Um,121.4703 
102 121.6498and122.3274 
104 122.5562did you go to school in,124.2974 
106 124.5397uh,125.1275 
108 125.4065the neighborhoods? Let's see,126.9727 
110 127.4528I guess, so, did you go to school in the third ward?130.0690 
111ROC_se0_ag3_m_01130.1767Yes, right in the s- southwest neighborhood. Uh,132.7487
113 133.3815m- my earlier school was about maybe a four, five block walk. Uh, we went to /RD-SCHOOL-4/ School on, uh, /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Street.140.8583 
115 141.6675Uh, we stayed very far from that. And then around nineteen sixty-two, /RD-SCHOOL-8/, uh, opened.148.0479 
117 148.5872And, uh, we were the inaugural, uh, students at that school.153.1105 
119 153.6946And, uh, from there I went to, uh, /RD-SCHOOL-3/ High School.157.7019 
121 158.4333Um, <clears throat>159.4161 
123 159.7867had a little difficulty at that school and then transferred to /RD-SCHOOL-2/ High School, uh, on /RD-ADDRESS-4/ Street, so.165.7153 
125 166.4019You know, I was educated in the public school system. Uh,169.5278 
127 169.9702unfortunately I didn't graduate,171.7124 
129 171.7771uh, but, uh,173.1518 
131 174.0326I continued to, um,175.6777 
133 176.8195<ts>176.8738 
135 176.9476uh, sort of strive around the city of Rochester.179.7145 
137 180.3203Uh,181.4044 
139 182.5532took a break back and forth, uh, lived a little bit in Binghamton y-186.9651 
141 187.1311New York when, uh, I was young.188.9844 
143 189.5551And, uh, when I came back here I settled once again,192.3911 
145 193.0508uh, in the northeast part of the city.195.2047 
148ROC_int_01196.5787And what was interesting to you about198.7860
150 198.9211Binghamton?199.5583 
151ROC_se0_ag3_m_01200.6828Well, uh, w- what- what happened is that, um,203.8599
153 204.7572<ts>204.8148 
155 204.8973like I said I was-205.9069 
157 207.1051you know I g-207.6211 
159 207.7393I-207.9054 
161 208.0063I got into, uh, trouble with, uh,211.6400 
163 212.0779uh, narcotics.213.3748 
165 214.0730Uh,214.7781 
167 214.9217I was addicted very young as a young person to, uh, drugs, so it sort of followed that and220.0932 
169 220.7645uh, th-221.1728 
171 221.2682the lifestyle that I had back at, uh, you know tha- that time,225.3847 
173 225.4744it225.7078 
175 226.0918it move-226.6438 
177 226.7784moved us to different cities and stuff because, uh,229.3658 
179 229.8370we were in that,230.5056 
181 230.5893uh, trade at that time and so, uh,232.9391 
183 233.5969uh,234.2027 
185 234.3407caused me to be very, very mobile237.0049 
187 237.1083and, uh,238.1318 
189 238.5505really not putting down a lot of roots anywhere.240.5698 
192ROC_int_01242.1861Yeah, makes sense.243.1643
194 243.2989And then when you returned from Binghamton and kind of settled down,247.1607 
196 247.6095uh,247.9914 
198 248.1113what did you decide, I guess was,250.2584 
200 250.4181uh, the next step for you maybe in terms of school, or?253.2523 
201ROC_se0_ag3_m_01253.8042Well th- the n-254.6389
203 254.7499the next step for me is that I wound up incarcerated,257.8962 
205 258.0353but, uh, when I finally got out259.7989 
207 260.4638uh, I settled down in the Northeast.263.0620 
209 263.5107Uh, I got married,264.7852 
211 264.9422uh, had my children.266.4320 
213 267.0091Um,267.7989 
215 268.8246worked, uh,270.1798 
217 271.0440pretty much in the Northeast at the public markets and /?/273.8487 
219 274.0533things like that. And, uh,275.6328 
221 276.2061that276.5662 
223 276.8471sort of,277.5516 
225 277.9913uh,278.4939 
227 278.8799started getting me somewhat settled.280.6236 
229 281.1441When-281.4400 
231 281.5331when, uh, I got out of incarceration,284.2014 
233 284.6689uh, while I was incarcerated I accepted Islam.287.5722 
235 287.9537And so, um,289.1608 
237 289.6424I became Muslim and I started, uh, practicing the faith and, uh,293.5027 
239 293.9209I attended, uh, the mosque on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street. It was called /RD-ADDRESS-4/ at the time.298.5361 
241 299.1293And, uh, from there, um,301.2967 
243 301.8486I had various responsibilities and duties in the, uh, mosque until I sort of worked my way up and, uh,308.0196 
245 308.8165I finally became the leader of the mosque and, um,311.7782 
247 313.0803we ran- um,314.3009 
249 315.6561um,316.9350 
251 317.1935you know, we- we- we had a private school at that time, it was /RD-SCHOOL-7/ School.322.2534 
253 322.8323Uh, we-323.6176 
255 324.8030we educated our own children and everything else like that. Uh,328.2718 
257 328.8713uh, the school, uh, stayed around a good, uh, fifteen to twenty years before it closed. Uh,335.2371 
259 336.6128we fell on some hard times and, uh, closed the mosque but now, uh, we have a place, uh, on /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Boulevard right now, /RD-NAME-9/.345.2770 
261 345.7930So, um,346.6726 
263 347.4901what- what- what-348.3965 
265 348.8363what tend to happen is that on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street, uh, we were confronted with a lot of, uh, graff,354.2956 
267 354.6905uh, crime and corruption because356.4836 
269 356.9170/RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street at the time in the, uh, northeast part of the city,360.4845 
271 361.1001was- um,362.1412 
273 362.9669it was a place that was filled with vice, uh, and for forty years it was like a red light,367.4139 
275 367.5403uh, district.368.3436 
277 368.9987And, uh, we decided to, um,371.7360 
279 372.6433uh, do something about that.374.0972 
281 374.3530Uh, couple times our mosque had been broken into so377.3057 
283 377.9321we decided that we were gonna become, um,380.6604 
285 381.4685<ts> I wouldn't say vigil-382.4293 
287 382.5459vigilantes but were gonna try to take384.8244 
289 385.1352our neighborhood and make something out of it.386.9750 
291 387.5412So, uh, we were able to close about maybe three or four bars on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street.392.0122 
293 392.0969Uh,392.6651 
295 393.5866those bars are still closed today. You can hardly find any crime and corrup-397.3650 
297 397.6279corruption that is up there. And399.3791 
299 399.4778then based upon that, our group which was called402.1673 
301 402.6411/RD-WORK-1/ at the time, /RD-WORK-13/,405.9214 
303 406.4625we went to various neighborhoods,408.8116 
305 408.9428uh, and tried to share with neighbors, uh,411.7199 
307 411.9705effective ways of, uh,413.5624 
309 414.0246getting drugs and-415.4336 
311 415.6767and, uh, crime out of the neighborhoods.418.0192 
313 418.3378Making public safety-419.7334 
315 420.1462Uh, we helped the sisters start block clubs and things like that. Based upon that, um,425.2492 
317 425.8729I sat on a-426.8871 
319 427.2558uh, a council that428.8444 
321 428.9655the city of Rochester had at the time, Uh,431.4426 
323 432.0626the mayor of the city of Rochester, the county exec, and a few, uh, local business people along with a lot of438.0668 
325 438.3997community-based organizations.440.1004 
327 440.3966They had a lofty goal of, uh, reducing, uh, drug addiction,444.1615 
329 444.6559uh, in the city of Rochester by fifty percent.447.2182 
331 447.6535So it was called Rochester Fights Back. And, uh, it was a coalition.451.3044 
333 451.7539I volunteered there for some time and then, uh, I was hired as a neighborhood coordinator,457.1837 
335 457.6773uh,458.2427 
337 458.4275for, uh, that organization.460.8911 
339 461.5193And, um,462.2151 
341 462.2981<clears throat>462.5651 
343 462.7334we- we didn't meet the goal of, uh, reducing drugs in ten years by fifty percent,468.2454 
345 468.9283but, uh, we did uncover, uh, a lot of the things that, uh,473.3618 
347 473.8607uh,474.3633 
349 474.4762kept narcotics, uh, somewhat as a challenge for the city of Rochester.479.1290 
351 479.8612Um,480.2875 
353 480.4939the city of Rochester,482.0152 
355 483.1550uh, would be484.2005 
357 484.5109just like, uh, the public market is for people that wanna come in488.2265 
359 488.6573from all over the region489.9811 
361 490.5959and visit the public market,492.3250 
363 492.5083buy food there.493.6975 
365 494.2449Uh, I'm quite sure you know where the public market is and have-496.8117 
367 497.1240and have been there.498.0394 
369 498.4343Well, years they've been trying to take the public market and take it out of the city of Rochester, but502.7866 
371 503.1545people love coming back in,504.7906 
373 505.1855uh, to their old neighborhoods and driving into the city,507.9415 
375 508.2781those that had left, uh, prior.510.0910 
377 510.6553And, uh, the atmosphere is, uh,513.3156 
379 513.8541uh, an atmosphere where it's very diverse and people sort of love that feel.518.1916 
381 518.4930It's urban.519.3770 
383 519.8078It's, uh, eclectic.521.5310 
385 521.8990And, um,522.8234 
387 523.1473uh, f- folks acs-524.4890 
389 524.6057actually like that, right?525.9115 
391 526.7909<ts>526.8325 
393 526.9122Well, if you527.8590 
395 528.3957follow the analogy, um,530.5003 
397 531.1985uh, drugs have a tendency to do the same thing in urban environments. Uh,536.4020 
399 537.0947people come from all over,538.7635 
401 539.2173uh, the county,540.5883 
403 541.0761uh, all over, uh, rural areas543.7518 
405 544.1820to, uh, purchase narcotics in-546.3377 
407 546.4776in-546.7707 
409 546.8936in-547.0930 
411 547.1761in the city, and so548.3119 
413 548.9643the city actually becomes550.5480 
415 550.9459the public market551.9907 
417 552.1050for,552.6714 
419 552.8180uh, those type of things. So we've tried to work with,555.6497 
421 555.8058uh, city police department and neighborhoods557.8914 
423 558.5249to try and,559.9668 
425 560.1890uh, deter people from coming in and doing that, but,562.9084 
427 564.4153uh, racism,565.4518 
429 565.7496uh,566.3642 
431 567.0647uh, urban planning, uh,569.2062 
433 569.9201uh, policies and, uh,572.1183 
435 572.6128uh, faulty planning,574.1161 
437 574.5274uh, redistricting, uh, our neighborhoods, regentrification578.6809 
439 579.1261causes this to settle in,580.7287 
441 580.8280uh, to such a degree582.1706 
443 582.6528that i-583.0002 
445 583.1027it becomes almost impossible to address. And so586.0769 
447 586.6214what we have in the city of Rochester now is that,589.1979 
449 589.8030uh, based upon the drug trade and public safety, a lot of people have moved.594.2307 
451 594.7866Uh, there's a little tax base now.596.6350 
453 597.0510Uh, there's entrenched,599.1887 
455 599.2927uh, uh, poverty,601.0088 
457 601.1033uh, to the deg- g-601.8786 
459 602.2604to the degree cause it's concentrated.603.9587 
461 604.5213Then in turn, that turns over606.2233 
463 606.3237to, uh, how the public school systems work608.9329 
465 609.2529and operate and so you can see that.611.0727 
467 611.1650So,611.5277 
469 611.9957most of my life, uh, the sixty-three years that I've been here,615.1678 
471 615.5597uh, I've been in the city of Rochester, and I watched the city,618.9634 
473 619.4701uh, be very bustling,621.3469 
475 621.4813uh, when I was a young person623.1670 
477 623.5925with a- um,624.5143 
479 624.9540a bustling downtown,626.3967 
481 626.6473strong tax base,628.0419 
483 628.4106to where I am now that we630.0794 
485 630.3016see the city, it has a lot of challenges.632.6189 
488 634.4437And so as far as,635.7789 
490 635.8903um,636.4434 
492 636.8055reducing narcotics go, do you think that Rochester has been moving in the right direction? Maybe, let's say in the last ten years?644.3527 
493ROC_se0_ag3_m_01644.4865Well, I don't- I don't think too many urban, uh, cities across, uh, America has moved in a good- good direction with that, but,651.3300
495 651.8263uh,652.2613 
497 652.3592to-652.7671 
499 653.0193to just give you the local, uh,655.0866 
501 655.6909uh, reality about Rochester is that658.2154 
503 658.9529there's always an ebb and flow in terms of way narcotics are d-662.2393 
505 662.4130d-662.5761 
507 662.8125distributed.663.5547 
509 663.9913When I was coming up as a young man, heroin was, uh,667.5227 
511 668.6692<ts>668.7140 
513 668.7735uh,669.1895 
515 669.5725a drug that literally670.8037 
517 670.9340went through almost672.1064 
519 672.1842all of the urban environments in America674.3764 
521 674.6931and literally tore,675.7994 
523 676.2343um,676.9245 
525 677.5872uh, the urban environments down. This is the f-680.0102 
527 680.3197one of the first things that caused682.0357 
529 682.3241maybe white flight.683.4234 
531 683.9504Uh, then, uh, maybe around the eighties, uh,687.3617 
533 687.6840cocaine came in and the crack cocaine epidemic690.5143 
535 690.9034did the same thing. Now there's a resurgent693.1347 
537 693.5299again,694.1681 
539 694.4376uh, for heroin, but this time,696.2813 
541 696.7123uh, the d- dichotomy is- is that698.6506 
543 698.9390it's just not an urban,700.3761 
545 700.7685uh, issue or problem.702.2718 
547 702.6706People from rural, um,704.3811 
549 704.9484uh, areas in the suburbs, uh,707.3311 
551 707.6837now we have, uh, uh, white kids getting very addicted to it. And so711.8183 
553 712.2863there's a outcry, and an alarmist view that, uh, something really needs to be done about it.717.6122 
555 718.0763And so,718.6484 
557 719.2677there may be, uh, an uptick721.5630 
559 721.6929to try to address the problem,723.7143 
561 724.1492but there seems to be a little bit more compassion now because727.0736 
563 727.3005another demographic is, uh,729.0024 
565 729.3578disproportionately,730.6200 
567 730.9651uh, impacted by, uh, this drug trade.733.7212 
569 734.1562And so, um,735.5508 
571 736.0811most folks that could read the tea leaves,738.8277 
573 739.3005uh,740.0522 
575 740.4993basically said that this would happen.742.2958 
577 742.7260Is that after a while if you think that you can control the masses of the population,747.1017 
579 747.5421uh, s- especially in urban neighborhoods where it disproportionately750.8797 
581 751.1019affects blacks,752.2365 
583 752.7565uh, and, uh, minorities, uh,755.1495 
585 755.6270that this thing would never touch,757.3136 
587 757.4151uh, maybe the, uh,759.2671 
589 759.7885uh, the rest of the dominant society it has. And762.8386 
591 763.1648I think in the Northeast, um,765.2449 
593 766.1715it's m-766.8995 
595 767.0043more prevalent in the Northeast than anywhere else. It goes all the way up to the state of Maine.771.3678 
597 771.8594It's- uh, it's a very, very big issue now, so.774.5549 
599 775.0371You find, uh, the policies now,777.7980 
601 778.2830uh, starting to be addressed780.0258 
603 780.1239and, um,780.9965 
605 781.8044uh, you starting to see maybe a little bit more compassion, uh,785.1751 
607 785.7613uh,786.2435 
609 786.6131around the, uh, criminal justice system incarcer-789.3692 
611 789.7048incarceration and everything791.2554 
613 791.7076taking, uh,792.7760 
615 792.8942uh, its turn.793.9595 
617 794.4504The neighborhood that I came up in, uh, /RD-NAME-2/ years ago,798.1520 
619 798.7343uh, I can799.5758 
621 800.0296just-800.6395 
623 800.8475uh, just in a cursory way take a picture,804.0811 
625 804.3789or a snapshot of all of my friends that have come up,806.8191 
627 807.3344and not too many of 'em live now,809.1876 
629 809.4712you know.809.9345 
631 810.4459Uh, some have been incarcerated, some have passed,813.4573 
633 813.9395uh, because of, uh,815.4429 
635 816.0102uh, the life that they lived and everything else. So,818.6158 
637 819.0697I know first hand the devastation,821.2112 
639 821.6934uh, of the neighborhoods and823.6664 
641 823.7420<clears throat>823.9965 
643 824.8033what tends to happen,825.9426 
645 826.3870uh,827.0311 
647 827.1280uh, in the neighborhoods,828.3772 
649 828.7109uh, linguistics830.4270 
651 830.7248take over in the neighborhood832.1565 
653 832.3870and shape it also too.833.8667 
655 834.2260Shape it in the way of poverty, or shape it in the way of empowerment.837.6448 
657 838.0787And what-838.6639 
659 838.8113what-839.0346 
661 839.2407what, uh, basically tends to happen is that,841.4342 
663 841.8361when the educational system doesn't work,844.7435 
665 845.4582uh, for the population that it needs to work for, right,848.9754 
667 849.3867then, uh, the neighborhood,851.2399 
669 851.5811the infrastructure and everything sort of caves in on,854.3136 
671 854.4004uh, everyone. And so,855.7223 
673 856.2641Rochester has taken its toll, uh,859.0013 
675 859.7396you know, uh, from that time.861.4368 
677 861.9331Now I was a young man when, uh, the riots were here in sixty-four.865.8758 
679 866.5433Um,867.1106 
681 868.0891think I was around twelve years old,869.9045 
683 870.3583at the-870.7082 
685 870.8358at the time, and872.1375 
687 872.2533what-872.5298 
689 872.9640what, uh,873.8008 
691 875.3656what-875.6208 
693 875.9896what we were told when it was ha- happening, at least by our parents,880.1147 
695 880.5402was that there was a lot of frustration in the streets,883.0344 
697 883.4646uh, same climate as it is now,885.6987 
699 886.0560uh, possibly can't get a job,887.6918 
701 888.3016police brutality.889.4646 
703ROC_se0_ag3_m_01889.9498[Uh], the same issues today, were the same issues of yesterday.892.8361
704 893.3277So, uh, you know,894.8405
706 895.2810there-895.7680 
708 895.9874there was that fifty, sixty year,897.8642 
710 898.3038um,899.0082 
712 899.7021uh,900.5686 
714 901.5855type of, uh,902.6114 
716 903.5691uh, spiraling down of, uh, the neighborhoods and stuff907.0958 
718 907.4228after the Civil Rights Act. So909.1909 
720 909.7535any time, um,911.4648 
722 911.8856you know, minorities or blacks, uh,914.1122 
724 914.5102have ever achieved something,915.9946 
726 916.5052uh, that was, uh, momentous and monumental,919.2707 
728 919.7396there's trouble after it.920.8269 
730 921.2855There was trouble after slavery, uh,923.3277 
732 923.8478uh, J-924.2260 
734 924.3961you know, Jim Crowism, um,926.2777 
736 926.9309uh, redlining neighborhoods and everything else. So anytime that931.1951 
738 931.5127a policy changed,932.8269 
740 933.1389or law changed in favor,934.7557 
742 935.3419uh, you know, of black populations,937.6631 
744 937.9760the neighborhoods or the environments that they live in,940.5193 
746 940.7935they were targeted for942.1881 
748 942.5143cruel treatment,943.4977 
750 943.9476um,944.6851 
752 944.9829uh, misappropriation of- um,947.6114 
754 948.2936<ts>948.3448 
756 948.4292uh,948.9965 
758 949.1005of resources,950.3750 
760 950.8194um,951.5663 
762 952.3416uh, political, uh, isolation.955.4295 
764 955.8692I mean, we have the same things today. So,957.9634 
766 958.7018we've got a959.8364 
768 960.0207country where there's961.1884 
770 961.6375close to962.2291 
772 962.3118two hundred fifty million people,963.8594 
774 964.2688and we find two candidates that everybody hates967.1195 
776 967.4276to run for president of the United States, so.969.5786 
778 970.1837Uh, you know, it- it let you know,972.0558 
780 972.6136uh, you know, w-973.7860 
782 973.9240where- where we're at as a975.7299 
784 976.0608society and as a people. But,978.0059 
786 978.5805uh, black people have to do a little bit better for themselves,982.2972 
788 982.7746and <clears throat> one of the things that984.7980 
790 985.6706we have to come to terms with987.1598 
792 987.6231is that,988.2093 
794 988.7301uh, the dominant society is never going to, uh,992.5357 
796 992.8099liberate, or free us994.3984 
798 994.8200until we go back to o-996.3280 
800 996.4604you know, our basic997.3822 
802 997.5572axiology998.6067 
804 999.0841or our value system that is of value to us1002.0274 
806 1002.4103which is our relationships.1003.9184 
808 1004.0658Those are the biggest things that1005.2713 
810 1005.4651black folks have.1006.5288 
812 1006.9212The axiology of European people1008.8594 
814 1008.9349is,1009.3653 
816 1009.7829uh, an object and the acquisition of it,1012.0715 
818 1012.2593and1012.6186 
820 1012.8928that's- that's what they do. They go around1014.8500 
822 1015.1411and conquer and do things like that.1016.8572 
824 1017.2212And I'm not saying that's good, bad, or indifference,1019.5594 
826 1019.8667but I'm just saying is that,1021.0769 
828 1021.1931uh, for us, as a people,1023.2307 
830 1023.7838we have to put a black head on a black body.1025.9924 
832 1026.4131We can no longer put a white head on a black body and thinks that we're gonna get results.1030.8758 
834 1031.4582And, uh, not be impacted, uh,1034.0914 
836 1034.4932you know, adversely, uh,1036.2140 
838 1036.3019by, uh,1037.1717 
840 1037.3892a lot of decision making because,1039.2471 
842 1040.1887um, <clears throat>1040.9404 
844 1041.1247it doesn't fit1042.1364 
846 1042.8172the DNA of who and what we are.1044.6893 
848 1045.1364And if we go back and look at,1047.3000 
850 1047.4040um,1047.9067 
852 1048.7874just the basic ancestors is that,1050.8277 
854 1051.3289uh,1051.9064 
856 1052.0522we-1052.3937 
858 1052.4918we were clumped together by circumstances, right?1055.3670 
860 1055.8397So, s-1056.4685 
862 1057.1256uh,1057.7071 
864 1058.4142you know, so anguinity, uh,1060.3194 
866 1060.9056is-1061.2310 
868 1061.3232is-1061.6518 
870 1061.7369is a- is a thing that1062.9306 
872 1063.2938you're related by,1064.5986 
874 1065.2132um,1066.0594 
876 1066.6172circumstance and situation versus, uh, blood.1069.6058 
878 1070.3717And so, this is how we are as a people, so we always find ourselves1074.2813 
880 1074.7691with,1075.1189 
882 1075.4451uh, few options1076.9165 
884 1077.0276other than1077.7285 
886 1078.1539to stay1079.0049 
888 1079.4114in close proximity1080.9487 
890 1081.4529to each other.1082.2015 
892 1082.6695Uh, whether we're educated, or not educated,1085.3169 
894 1085.6865whether we have a economic situation, or we don't1088.1920 
896 1088.5702somehow, or another, uh, we're still there. And so,1091.5344 
898 1092.0363uh,1092.7360 
900 1092.9298we haven't ever been able in America to spread out1095.6954 
902 1095.8088like, uh,1096.4801 
904 1096.8300maybe other groups of people can do.1098.4751 
906ROC_se0_ag3_m_011099.8942Didn't mean to go on so long [but], yeah.1102.1783
908 1102.1879it's-1102.4768
910 1102.6139it's totally fine.1103.6634 
912ROC_int_011104.0085Um, I just wanna follow up, um, on your1106.4507
914 1107.1030point about the black head on a1109.0649 
916 1109.2805black body1110.0558 
918 1110.4521and whether, or n- what do you think that the, uh,1112.7201 
920 1113.1030presidency of Barack Obama1115.2961 
922 1115.4211has done1116.1172 
924 1116.2401to, um,1117.1336 
926 1117.6173<ts>1117.7388 
928 1118.7796maybe improve the circumstances for,1120.9921 
930 1121.1906uh, black people in this country?1122.7176 
933 1123.6801I th-1123.9874 
935 1124.1339I- I don't think1125.0794 
937 1125.1759that,1125.6183 
939 1125.8878uh, his presidency has improved anything for us,1129.3478 
941 1129.9056uh, other than,1131.2599 
943 1131.3375um-1131.8589 
945 1133.0371<ts>1133.0915 
947 1133.5608Uh, there's- there's a message that the dominant society wants us to carry around that, uh,1139.5722 
949 1140.0458uh, you had a black president, and things have changed. Uh,1143.1281 
951 1143.5063which is, uh,1144.5558 
953 1145.0332uh, basically far from the truth.1146.7974 
955 1147.0905He-1147.2891 
957 1147.6956uh, Barack Obama hadn't been able to do1150.3714 
959 1150.5904a whole lot for our community.1152.5319 
961 1153.0547Uh,1153.6306 
963 1153.8611I think1154.3175 
965 1154.4102we'll see, uh, his real value1156.6976 
967 1156.9860and his worth after he's president.1158.7210 
969 1159.3505Uh, that's where, uh,1161.2132 
971 1162.0736we possibly have to hold him to the-1163.8795 
973 1164.3294to the fire, or, uh,1166.2535 
975 1166.7782uh, put our judgements.1168.0795 
977 1168.1953But,1168.4801 
979 1168.8517without a doubt,1169.6742 
981 1169.9957the President of the Unites States1171.5038 
983 1171.9509is more of a figurehead,1173.6764 
985 1173.7883uh, type of a situation,1175.4824 
987 1175.9039and we found that out quickly.1177.7382 
989 1178.1589Uh, we were deluded to think that,1180.1965 
991 1180.4092uh, this guy could do something1182.2908 
993 1182.6603just for, uh, black folks1184.3197 
995 1184.8161and, uh, not things for the country. And so1187.8795 
997 1188.4381the, uh, climate that you see today1191.1139 
999 1191.5535was based upon how1193.0947 
1001 1193.3386the dominant society hated,1195.1256 
1003 1195.4896uh, this guy1196.7424 
1005 1197.0316that was in the office.1198.2607 
1007 1198.6484And so,1199.2866 
1009 1199.7357there was an uptick,1200.9601 
1011 1201.3005a little bit more police brutality,1203.3995 
1013 1203.8258uh, a little bit more, uh, racism,1206.3455 
1015 1206.9081uh,1207.4612 
1017 1207.9245individualize, but, uh,1209.7210 
1019 1210.3458uh, the- the structured racism1213.2343 
1021 1213.4139is still the same. It's not anything1215.2671 
1023 1215.6320that's gonna be dismantled.1217.0408 
1025 1217.4142Uh, white privilege was1219.1067 
1027 1219.3430basically,1220.2507 
1029 1220.7755um,1221.6548 
1031 1222.7014<ts> somewhat danced around in folk's face1225.0920 
1033 1225.3950while he was the president.1226.4918 
1035 1226.5925So he was the president for eight years.1228.3430 
1037 1228.7401Uh, not a l-1229.6715 
1039 1229.8141not a l- lot happened1231.4309 
1041 1231.7098socially,1232.6175 
1043 1232.9910uh,1233.6717 
1045 1233.8136uh, for the country.1235.2554 
1047 1235.8708Uh,1236.8778 
1049 1237.4813healthcare a- improved,1239.5394 
1051 1239.9932uh,1240.5274 
1053 1240.6720most certainly he took us out of, uh,1242.7805 
1055 1243.1539the recession,1244.0569 
1057 1244.4662uh, all of the things that1246.0736 
1059 1247.3642in my opinion should make someone take a look and say,1249.9462 
1061 1250.2771this a pretty good legacy, you know.1252.1965 
1063 1252.7874Um,1253.3878 
1065 1254.1261but what's gonna happen in terms of us as a people, we're gonna have to realize1258.7591 
1067 1259.3642that1259.7802 
1069 1260.0316collectively,1261.1378 
1071 1261.2891uh, as a group,1262.3764 
1073 1262.8019we have to make strides, and that1264.8111 
1075 1265.2015we cannot depend on the federal government because1268.6384 
1077 1269.0032the federal government only comes1270.8402 
1079 1271.1495to our aid1271.9673 
1081 1272.4637when there's a crisis.1273.6834 
1083 1274.3339And, uh, you literally have to tear up something in this country1278.0449 
1085 1278.4665in order to get people to see,1280.3764 
1087 1280.8302uh, that it's a crisis.1282.1398 
1089 1282.6342White folks have this dissonance about them1285.0389 
1091 1285.1417that,1285.6361 
1093 1286.1576uh, they wanna sleep good at night1288.3133 
1095 1288.4323and don't feel any guilt or anything else like that. So,1291.4484 
1097 1292.0205uh, they'll deny,1293.5569 
1099 1293.9757uh, the history1295.5074 
1101 1295.8809that it was brutal for blacks,1297.4835 
1103 1297.9240that, uh, they gained a lot of wealth,1300.2546 
1105 1300.6281uh, uh, basically up off of blacks.1303.4787 
1107 1303.8956They even taking, um,1305.2447 
1109 1306.3177<ts>1306.3753 
1111 1306.5146uh, books today and maybe you could1308.0651 
1113 1308.1370be able to do something about that.1309.6868 
1115 1310.0786But the Texas repositories where1312.1114 
1117 1312.4565they have all the classroom books and stuff like that,1314.8419 
1119 1315.1918uh, I read where1316.6573 
1121 1316.9701they're saying that, uh,1318.4404 
1123 1318.8138they're changing the language that there was slavery, chattel slavery to1322.1609 
1125 1322.3736forced immigration.1323.3900 
1127ROC_se0_ag3_m_011323.9487And so when you- when you have language like this here that denies what has happened,1327.9907
1128 1328.4020uh, to a people,1329.8778
1130 1330.3884and, uh, expect that that-1332.0241 
1132 1332.2734to be alright just so you can breathe1334.3122 
1134 1334.6506and feel comfortable about yourself, then1336.6267 
1136 1337.2507it means that we haven't really made the strives that was-1339.8387 
1138 1339.9403wa- was-1340.5182 
1140 1340.6128we supposed to have maken.1341.7568 
1142 1342.1492But getting back to the president, um,1344.1678 
1144 1344.7738was he a good president for the United States? I think so, but1347.7379 
1146 1348.0972blacks really didn't get anything out of, uh, that, uh,1351.2938 
1148 1351.8753uh, but we hope that the way it's paved, uh, for later that,1355.6336 
1150 1356.5185you know,1357.0271 
1152 1357.1264uh,1357.5822 
1154 1357.8408they take the skills of leadership1359.5852 
1156 1359.9634for what they originally was,1361.5243 
1158 1361.7513which was a community organizer,1363.6233 
1160 1363.9401and organize people around issues,1365.9209 
1162 1366.2196you understand, so1367.1982 
1164 1367.5243we can finally have our say and reach our destiny.1369.8172 
1167 1371.0302Okay, um,1372.1033 
1169 1372.2782and moving I guess from bigger to smaller, what about on a local level in terms of1376.5310 
1171 1376.8430we've had leadership from people like Mayor Bill Johnson, and now we have Mayor Lovely Warren.1381.4456 
1173 1381.7983Do you think that, um,1383.3158 
1175 1384.1270I guess some of the work that they're doing,1385.9068 
1177 1386.0306or,1386.4387 
1179 1386.6481Mayor Lovely Warren (laughing), some of the work that she's doing is also improving on the1390.7307 
1181 1390.9860circumstances, or?1392.3786 
1182ROC_se0_ag3_m_011392.5949Well, w- w- once again, uh,1394.7660
1184 1395.1328<clears throat>1395.7001 
1186 1397.6392as blacks we've always had to put-1399.3269 
1188 1400.2724uh, we put most of our eggs in, uh, politics.1402.9860 
1190 1403.8633And1404.3436 
1192 1404.4712this is what tends to happen1406.2109 
1194 1406.2960is that1406.8775 
1196 1407.3564Lincoln frees the slaves, so we- we- we vote1409.6965 
1198 1410.1455Republican for a hundred years.1411.8191 
1200 1412.3542Uh, the Voting Rights Act happen, so we vote Democrat for the1415.6923 
1202 1415.8105past fifty, sixty years.1417.2944 
1204 1417.9028Uh, most of the urban, uh, communities1420.4510 
1206 1420.7535are democratically r-1421.8077 
1208 1422.0355uh, run.1422.7021 
1210 1423.3119And so, um,1424.6214 
1212 1425.2575<ts>1425.3151 
1214 1425.4818for Lovely to, uh, come in and become mayor,1428.2313 
1216 1428.6520uh, she took the track of going in1431.1698 
1218 1431.2974and being on City Council first1433.0513 
1220 1433.5202and becoming President of City Council.1435.7610 
1222 1436.1109So, a lot of the, um,1438.1248 
1224 1438.8036projects that,1439.8862 
1226 1440.0091uh, the dominant society in Rochester wanted to put forth,1443.4109 
1228 1443.9829uh, in terms of how the1445.0608 
1230 1445.1798downtown was gonna be designed,1446.8675 
1232 1447.1890how, uh, new housing was gonna come in for,1449.6709 
1234 1450.0538uh, folks so,1451.2073 
1236 1451.5249uh, we- we can get more people to come back into the city,1454.9571 
1238 1455.3022and become residents increase the tax base and stuff like that.1458.5575 
1240 1458.8364A lot of that was done on her watch1460.5761 
1242 1460.9268when she was, uh,1462.1232 
1244 1462.2166President of City Council.1463.6214 
1246 1464.1145Uh, city council's the one that has to make the, uh, policies,1467.3433 
1248 1467.7082approve, uh, land acquisitions, all the tax things like that.1471.2727 
1250 1471.8400And so, uh, people was really shocked when she says she wants to run for mayor.1475.8564 
1252 1476.7696Uh, they were told1477.9184 
1254 1478.1690it's not your time.1479.1712 
1256 1479.9418And, uh,1480.9535 
1258 1481.1142you know,1481.7051 
1260 1481.8044I think most blacks applaud her1483.8447 
1262 1484.2276for taking the initiative to say,1486.1092 
1264 1486.3558well, it is my time.1487.4763 
1266 1487.9821So I think, uh,1489.6036 
1268 1489.9440the, um,1491.2393 
1270 1491.6860<ts>1491.7467 
1272 1491.8216community of Rochester, especially black folks,1493.9975 
1274 1494.0967are still excited about m-1495.4370 
1276 1495.5753Mayor Lovely Warren.1496.5680 
1278 1497.0956Even though we haven't seen all1499.2276 
1280 1499.6957that1500.1416 
1282 1500.2197is supposed to happen in terms1502.4309 
1284 1502.7694of the neighborhoods that we're left in crumbling.1505.1804 
1286 1505.9462Um,1506.4757 
1288 1506.6609so, she gets a pass.1508.1690 
1290 1508.6512Uh, hopefully she can get reelected1510.9298 
1292 1511.4640and more, uh, African Americans can come out with ideas for development and stuff1516.7360 
1294 1517.0811and possibly get it passed through1518.8586 
1296 1519.2566up under her- um,1520.7363 
1298 1521.3414up u-1521.6770 
1300 1521.8011up under her leadership and her being the m-1523.8139 
1302 1524.3622her being the mayor.1525.4165 
1304 1525.9610Um,1526.5424 
1306 1526.8214you know, Bill Johnson, he sort of paved a way for her.1529.5397 
1308 1530.0833And, um,1531.0666 
1310 1531.1951I heard that, uh,1532.4148 
1312 1533.0625uh,1533.8992 
1314 1534.0836folks such as himself and a lot of other folks, uh,1536.8397 
1316 1537.2849she- she has a tendency, uh, to listen to.1539.9465 
1318 1540.5138Uh, but once again,1542.0877 
1320 1542.1645uh,1542.7404 
1322 1543.2382she has the-1544.5146 
1324 1544.7897the-1545.3806 
1326 1545.4799the Barack Obama,1546.7705 
1328 1547.1439uh, f-1547.8625 
1330 1548.3920/phenom in-/ right here in Rochester, to whereas that1551.3400 
1332 1551.7607if there's appearance1553.0844 
1334 1553.5107that you're trying to do everything, uh,1555.8556 
1336 1556.3992to help, uh, blacks,1558.2619 
1338 1558.6192and it doesn't perceive that, uh,1560.5669 
1340 1561.0349white folks, especially business leaders, can get any,1563.8581 
1342 1564.3072um,1564.8272 
1344 1565.3483<ts>1565.4450 
1346 1565.5552uh, uh, justice in terms of, uh, the grab back that they're supposed to get,1570.6476 
1348 1571.1770well, she's got a tough1572.5385 
1350 1572.7732balancing act to do that, and1574.8597 
1352 1575.2151you possibly can see that in, um,1577.3945 
1354 1578.8506the, uh,1579.8812 
1356 1580.1515th- uh, the billion dollar effort to, uh, renovate the schools and stuff like that and the boards1585.0775 
1358 1585.3989of where the money's supposed to go and,1587.3711 
1360 1587.4578uh, what have you.1588.5719 
1362 1588.8920It was supposed to increase jobs for African Americans. That didn't happen up under her watch.1593.3414 
1364 1593.8094There's a lot of criticism about that, but1595.8422 
1366 1596.4785I believe that black people have to understand1599.0550 
1368 1599.4879that when blacks get into office,1601.5728 
1370 1601.9368it doesn't mean that we're gonna make it, because politics doesn't make it for us.1605.8019 
1372 1606.2755Politics1606.9657 
1374 1607.1406d-1607.3628 
1376 1607.5330does start1608.4785 
1378 1608.7054the effort,1609.4476 
1380 1609.8825uh, for power1610.9368 
1382 1611.6893to where you can get inside information,1613.9585 
1384 1614.3981or you can develop things, possibly open up some businesses,1617.5041 
1386 1617.7365have an insight on,1619.2919 
1388 1619.6512uh, some of the things that you possibly need in order to-1622.7902 
1390 1622.9557to make these things happen.1624.2037 
1392 1624.6442But it doesn't mean that there's a1626.4170 
1394 1626.7621symbolic1627.4523 
1396 1627.8164cupboard1628.3127 
1398 1628.8895that you can open up1629.9768 
1400 1630.2991and then that-1630.9468 
1402 1631.1973that there's a grab back for everyone and so1633.3672 
1404 1633.7596that's what I think that the African American, uh, community, the black community has to guard itself against that.1639.0363 
1406 1639.5043Uh, someone is gonna be a savior for us.1642.0241 
1409 1644.3981we talked a little bit about like, racism in this country, but, uh, I wanted to ask more specifically in Rochester,1650.7310 
1411 1651.1337uh,1651.6631 
1413 1652.0461the ways in which you think-1653.2752 
1415 1653.4738or well, first of all, if you think, uh, African Americans have to deal with a lot of racism or discrimination,1659.0313 
1417 1659.2251or had to, at some point,1660.7691 
1419 1660.9109you know, uh, maybe in the fifties, sixties, seventies.1663.7029 
1421 1664.1378Um, and in which ways do1666.3266 
1423 1666.5497those-1666.9279 
1425 1667.3344does it manifest?1668.4312 
1427 1668.8047Um, so like, people will say okay, uh,1671.5041 
1429 1671.7196for example, police brutality, right. That's an example of1675.0477 
1431 1675.4240a ways in which we can see this racist system operating.1678.6745 
1433 1679.0764Um,1679.5066 
1435 1679.7855yeah.1680.1306 
1437 1680.5494I don't know, does that question make sense?1682.0196 
1440 1682.6011le- le- let me go back, once again, uh,1685.2108 
1442 1685.8469I've been here for sixty-three years with my family, uh, I'm a fourth generation1690.0647 
1444 1690.1734person1690.6273 
1446 1690.9109here in the city of Rochester, so.1692.5041 
1448 1693.0155Uh, I've gotten, uh,1694.9868 
1450 1695.2563first hand accounts from, uh,1697.1993 
1452 1697.7288uh, my parents and grandparents, uh, how the city of Rochester1701.2563 
1454 1701.4974has been,1702.1167 
1456 1702.2301uh, maybe since the twenties.1704.0880 
1458 1704.5352But, uh, let me- let me say this here is that,1707.2441 
1460 1707.6932uh,1708.2585 
1462 1709.1784I'm gonna speak about the- uh, uh, the micro here but the macro is- is that,1714.1990 
1464 1714.9184uh, after World War Two, uh, they passed the GI Bill.1718.4877 
1466 1719.0719Uh, the GI Bill, uh, helped, uh, folks that went over to fight in the wars.1723.7833 
1468 1724.2466Uh, when you came back, uh, you were able to get a loan for1727.5566 
1470 1727.7741housing,1728.4879 
1472 1728.8709possibly, GI Bill to go to school and everything else like that.1732.3077 
1474 1732.6915Well,1733.0366 
1476 1733.2446African Americans, uh, had it a little different.1735.7880 
1478 1736.2655Uh, they can only buy housing in certain neighborhoods.1739.1312 
1480 1739.5708Uh, that housing was redline.1741.7880 
1482 1742.2938Uh, that housing also was, uh,1744.8873 
1484 1745.1615crumbling down in neighborhoods.1746.7742 
1486 1747.1667Uh, they couldn't basically use the bill to get into a lot of colleges1750.9535 
1488 1751.2153because the admission wouldn't let them get in or anything else.1753.9128 
1490 1754.2910And so what you1755.1892 
1492 1755.7101tend to, uh, have1757.4072 
1494 1757.7807is that1758.3338 
1496 1758.7593your start1759.6291 
1498 1760.2106for you and your family is not one to where1762.8021 
1500 1763.1898in the next generation you could leave 'em a house,1765.5677 
1502 1765.9081leave 'em some money,1766.9852 
1504 1767.0608uh,1767.6376 
1506 1767.7250you know, uh, basically to do s-1769.6519 
1508 1769.7343those things. So1770.4802 
1510 1770.8694that's the structural racism right there.1773.0630 
1512 1773.4742Uh, that's the racism that is, uh,1775.4078 
1514 1775.4827in, um,1776.3454 
1516 1776.7768uh, the structures, whether it's, uh,1778.6725 
1518 1779.0752uh,1779.6850 
1520 1780.2003uh, redlining for, uh, insurance,1783.2217 
1522 1783.6325um,1784.3416 
1524 1784.6639making sure that, uh, a neighborhood is blackballed to where1788.4459 
1526 1788.7910you can't get out of it or move,1790.5071 
1528 1790.8577uh,1791.5152 
1530 1791.6094uh, anywhere else and you're somewhat landlocked1793.8656 
1532 1794.3452to where you basically can be.1795.9156 
1534 1796.4167Uh, in terms of promotions,1798.2604 
1536 1798.7331um,1799.3619 
1538 1799.4706in terms of, uh,1800.7660 
1540 1801.2348uh, uh, jobs,1803.1873 
1542 1803.6506uh, in terms of, uh, uh,1805.8536 
1544 1806.3744uh, corporate ladder and stuff like that,1808.7523 
1546 1809.0502in the fifties and sixties,1810.5913 
1548 1810.8371it was very, very hard here. Even though Kodak1813.2774 
1550 1813.7076was a1814.1945 
1552 1814.2985major employer,1815.4425 
1554 1815.8018and a lot of blacks did very well1817.6455 
1556 1817.8157being in there,1818.6289 
1558 1819.0126uh, they didn't have the jobs,1820.8327 
1560 1821.2771uh, that was compared to, uh, a lot of whites and stuff like that. Uh,1825.6508 
1562 1826.2134their- their- their positions, um,1828.3880 
1564 1828.9790didn't lend very much but, uh, through hard work and stuff like that1832.8725 
1566 1833.2156the African American community,1834.8513 
1568 1834.9317uh,1835.3335 
1570 1835.5983some people became mobile and was able,1837.6839 
1572 1837.7737uh,1838.3505 
1574 1838.5065to- to move out.1839.4804 
1576 1839.9815As I understood, Xerox years ago,1842.1892 
1578 1842.7053uh, there was an organization called FIGHT.1844.9745 
1580 1845.4851Uh,1846.2320 
1582 1846.7048it was run by, uh,1848.1608 
1584 1848.6780<ts> uh, Minister Franklin Florence, uh,1851.0029 
1586 1851.3102as a y-1852.1564 
1588 1852.2509a y-1852.5488 
1590 1852.7851a young man.1853.6786 
1592 1854.0048It was on, uh, Prospect Street.1855.9156 
1594 1856.3694We could go down there look in the window and see him negotiating,1859.7070 
1596 1860.1861uh, with the powers that be, uh, in the city for,1863.0710 
1598 1863.4311uh, better jobs, better housing,1865.5916 
1600 1865.9414uh,1866.5229 
1602 1866.9484uh,1867.7331 
1604 1867.8513you know, basically for blacks.1869.4067 
1606 1869.8141But in Rochester, Rochester's always been1872.4047 
1608 1872.7451a tale of two cities.1873.9175 
1610 1874.2343It was very rich because1875.9118 
1612 1876.2296there was Xerox and there was Kodak1878.1069 
1614 1878.4615and there was this1879.6244 
1616 1879.9884enormous amount of wealth.1881.8700 
1618 1882.4759Uh, but when you went to the third,1885.6055 
1620 1886.1823uh, the seventh ward1887.5107 
1622 1887.9653and, uh, some of these places here in the city of Rochester,1890.7829 
1624 1891.1989uh,1891.7426 
1626 1892.0783the same concentrated poverty,1894.0449 
1628 1894.4050in the neighborhood that I grew up in,1896.0123 
1630 1896.1778it's still the same, uh,1897.7284 
1632 1897.9884where it is at there. So1899.2081 
1634 1899.7432there's not a lot that has improved, uh, in terms of the infrastructure,1903.9884 
1636 1904.4423uh, to where1905.4729 
1638 1905.8046poor people are at.1906.7879 
1640 1907.3269When they migrated up here, uh, in-1909.4477 
1642 1909.5293in the South,1910.2059 
1644 1910.6550and I seen a lot of folks, /??/1912.2387 
1646 1912.5185uh, with the Great Migration in the fifties.1914.5702 
1648 1914.9011When I was coming up as a little boy and stuff like that1916.9907 
1650 1917.2838there was only two neighborhoods that you can grow up in.1919.6152 
1652 1919.9462It was the seventh ward, where the riots broke out at,1922.6125 
1654 1922.9103and the third ward, where the riots, uh, ended at.1926.1920 
1656 1926.7593And so, that was, um,1928.5510 
1658 1929.2298you know, the powder keg for that.1930.8338 
1660 1931.3997Uh, we fast forward to this day and time,1933.6366 
1662 1934.0763there's still that same type of dynamic1936.8844 
1664 1937.4139that,1937.7783 
1666 1937.9339uh, has a tendency to work here because people1940.9131 
1668 1941.2865are still a little sick and tired of it, and,1943.6361 
1670 1944.3027uh, th- things don't get any better. Uh,1947.1636 
1672 1947.7356police treat young people always, uh, with disdain, if, uh,1951.8939 
1674 1952.4470uh, they're black, uh, you get harassed and stuff like that. So,1955.9225 
1676 1956.4095you know, racism is always alive and well.1959.2128 
1678 1959.7092And,1960.1536 
1680 1960.3435when young people don't see it getting any better,1962.9218 
1682 1963.8182uh, you know, then they strike out.1965.6998 
1684 1965.8472And, uh,1966.7359 
1686 1968.0785you know, Black Lives Matter and some of the other organizing things that,1971.6289 
1688 1972.1166um,1972.6650 
1690 1972.9250is causing them to,1974.3716 
1692 1974.8727uh, become, uh, woke,1977.2270 
1694 1977.8141um,1978.4334 
1696 1979.1378very, very easy for these things right now to manifest themselves. And I think,1983.2885 
1698 1983.6864uh, it's their time now1985.4403 
1700 1985.8185uh, for the equality.1987.0240 
1703 1988.4261have you heard of the organization BLACK here?1990.8419 
1705ROC_int_011991.4423Yeah, and what do you think of the work that they're doing within the community?1995.0454
1706ROC_se0_ag3_m_011995.1636I- I think-1995.8255
1708 1995.9767I think the work of BLACK is, uh, pretty good. I know a f- few of the folks that are in there. Um,2001.1987 
1710 2002.1970uh, but w- one thing that,2004.2534 
1712 2004.4270uh, they may miss, uh,2006.7685 
1714 2007.0407the mark on as, uh,2008.7804 
1716 2009.4659uh, young people so often do,2012.3221 
1718 2013.0738uh, they sort of organize around,2015.9434 
1720 2016.7297<ts>2016.8495 
1722 2017.1450you know, what is fad-ish,2018.6578 
1724 2019.4473and not so much around the issues in terms of really understanding them.2024.9462 
1726 2025.5749Uh,2026.2226 
1728 2026.5866they're more so of a reaction,2029.0118 
1730 2029.4145you understand,2030.2890 
1732 2030.8800to the, uh,2031.9578 
1734 2032.3739injustices and inequalities of the dominant society.2035.6981 
1736 2036.3127Uh, but there's not a whole lot of organizing2038.9412 
1738 2039.2153that you might have seen in the sixties,2041.0402 
1740 2041.4334uh, w- w- with the Black Power movements. The Black Power movements2045.3619 
1742 2045.7023were more about self help2047.1725 
1744 2047.5752more than anything else.2048.8516 
1746 2049.3291Uh, initially these groups are2051.9812 
1748 2052.2913a little bit more of a protest,2054.5611 
1750 2055.0880uh, more so than organizing and trying to2058.2223 
1752 2058.7006take, um,2059.6461 
1754 2060.1567the black intellect and form an intelligentsia to, uh,2063.7070 
1756 2063.9859lead the movement.2064.8085 
1759 2065.9014okay.2066.2938 
1761 2067.0454Um,2067.6789 
1763 2067.9894<ts>2068.0631 
1765 2068.2746I wanted to ask a question, you mentioned a while back that, um, you're fourth generation here.2073.5154 
1767ROC_int_012073.9512Um, but your grandparents I'm assuming,2075.9923
1769 2076.1293were they born here, or2077.3455 
1770ROC_se0_ag3_m_012077.6953[No], they weren't born here. Uh, [my-]2079.6470
1773 2079.3953[/?/]2079.6679 
1776 2080.3833m-2080.4590 
1778 2080.6291my grandmother on my-2081.6843 
1780 2081.9793on my father's side, I know more about that2084.0641 
1782 2084.4234side than my mother's side.2085.6194 
1784 2086.2774But my grandmother came from, uh, Bradford, Pennsylvania,2089.5630 
1786 2090.1586uh, in nineteen twelve and she settled here and she married, uh, my grandfather. He was from North Carolina.2095.9959 
1788 2096.7192But, uh, we do have, uh,2098.5913 
1790 2099.3443<ts>2099.3913 
1792 2099.4895an infamous, uh,2100.8511 
1794 2101.5421great-grandfather who fought in the Civil War.2103.8727 
1796 2104.5960And uh, he came2106.4729 
1798 2106.8519to Rochester with my2108.5396 
1800 2108.8752grandmother a little later on,2110.9459 
1802 2111.4754when my grandfather had a2113.1536 
1804 2113.7123terrible car accident. He was over road truck driving, he lost his eye in a2117.9954 
1806 2118.2318accident, and so,2119.5224 
1808 2120.0716uh, my great-grandfather came to help my grandmother raise her children here.2124.2743 
1810 2124.8708And, uh, his name is /RD-NAME-2/. Uh,2127.5655 
1812 2128.0855his discharge paper's in the Smithsonian. Uh,2131.0827 
1814 2131.4806he fought, uh, in the Civil War2133.6080 
1816 2133.9957and he died nineteen thirty-seven here in, uh, Rochester but, uh,2137.4609 
1818 2138.0716he's- um,2139.2818 
1820 2140.2084uh,2141.2390 
1822 2141.6550he's in the R-2142.2601 
1824 2142.5162Rochester public libraries, and he's part of Afro-Rochester.2145.9673 
1829 2149.0457So, okay.2150.5632 
1831 2152.5596Your grandmother came here and raised your-2155.2403 
1833 2155.3301um,2155.7887 
1835 2156.3113and your grand- great-grandfather came and helped her raise her [children, right?]2159.4361 
1839 2160.7654do you know maybe why they wanted to come to2163.7106 
1841 2163.8524Rochester in the first place? Like what was-2166.2596 
1842ROC_se0_ag3_m_012166.5385Well, uh, along in this time, they- they felt as though- that there was opportunities up here.2171.6914
1844 2172.1556Uh, some of my mother's- uh,2173.7487 
1846 2173.9000my grandmother's, uh, sisters,2175.5783 
1848 2176.1645uh, they lived in, um,2178.6898 
1850 2179.6825uh, Le Roy, and then some of 'em moved to, uh, Buffalo,2183.0296 
1852 2183.5315uh, where- where there was a rural help where you could2187.4128 
1854 2187.9044work like on farms and stuff like that. Uh,2190.5432 
1856 2191.4272my grandmother came here and,2193.3750 
1858 2193.9801you know, she was high school educated and everything else. Uh,2196.9659 
1860 2197.6656my, uh, grandfather was over the road truck driver and there was a lot of, uh,2201.7935 
1862 2202.4270um,2203.2354 
1864 2204.4464uh, stuff to ship back and forth2206.5596 
1866 2206.9993up here in upstate New York. Uh,2209.0699 
1868 2209.4150more s-2209.7459 
1870 2209.8878more so than there would be in the south.2211.6425 
1872 2212.1672Uh, my grandmother also used to2214.7721 
1874 2215.4576iron and do laundry for,2217.5716 
1876 2217.7370uh, you know, rich lawyers and stuff like that that lived on Plymouth Avenue2221.7176 
1878 2222.0777at that time. They grew up,2223.2643 
1880 2223.8127they had a house there on, uh, /RD-ADDRESS-3/2225.8077 
1882 2226.3419where, uh,2227.0888 
1884 2227.4225most of us all grew up at or we gathered around.2230.0935 
1886 2230.5899And so that was their, uh,2232.3967 
1888 2232.6330entre here.2233.5360 
1890 2234.0371Uh,2234.5004 
1892 2234.7320<clears throat>2234.9306 
1894 2235.1244my parents- um,2236.3488 
1896 2237.2756<ts>2237.3368 
1898 2237.8152my father, he grew up, he didn't take really good advantage of, uh,2241.4270 
1900 2242.0557of, uh, all of his potential. So he-2244.2671 
1902 2244.3486he always wound up being a laborer and stuff like that, but I had aunt-2247.5438 
1904 2247.6770aunts and uncles that, uh,2249.2087 
1906 2249.9840uh,2250.5796 
1908 2250.9342you know, they tried2251.9979 
1910 2252.2721to,2252.7354 
1912 2253.5390uh, follow suit, go to school, and s-2256.0866 
1914 2256.1967and- and things like that. I had a aunt, she was2258.6645 
1916 2259.3736/possibly/ the first, uh,2260.6481 
1918 2260.8797female, uh,2262.4256 
1920 2262.6959police officer, uh, that made Sergeant,2265.4473 
1922 2266.1422uh, here on the Rochester police department and,2268.5958 
1924 2269.0552you know, she became a lawyer, a corporate lawyer for, uh, Kodak2272.5535 
1926 2272.9837and things like that. So,2274.2270 
1928 2274.6052you know, our family basically settled here and did alright. Uh,2278.1800 
1930 2278.6150my brothers and sisters they're in pretty good shape, uh, also too, so.2282.2654 
1932 2282.9367Uh,2283.4331 
1934 2284.2888being up here,2285.5605 
1936 2285.7772uh,2286.3689 
1938 2287.0855we-2287.4637 
1940 2287.6102we heard a lot of stories, especially my mother and them, they're from the South,2291.3269 
1942 2291.9225of, um,2292.9295 
1944 2293.2037you know, prejudice,2294.3714 
1946 2294.9008uh,2295.7754 
1948 2296.0694brutality and everything else.2297.8800 
1950 2298.3433But up here, there was a lot of racism and things too, and, uh,2302.4704 
1952 2303.3316/?/2303.5963 
1954 2303.7902according to my father and everything else like that, you know, they were always2307.5201 
1956 2307.9228the only blacks in the school or,2309.8942 
1958 2310.6033uh, in a classroom and stuff like that. So,2312.8205 
1960 2313.2276they sort of faced some things also too. Uh,2315.5318 
1962 2315.9809they adjusted very well.2317.3944 
1964 2318.0941Uh, as you know, black folks are resilient,2320.3980 
1966 2320.4973so,2321.0118 
1968 2321.4387uh, you make the best2323.0176 
1970 2323.5849of the situation that you're in.2325.1450 
1973 2327.4717Um,2328.0249 
1975 2328.8853so are- is most of your family still here? Or have they thought about moving?2334.1430 
1976ROC_se0_ag3_m_012334.5685No, all- all of my brothers and sisters are here except one. He's in- uh, my- my younger brother, he's in Tulsa, Oklahoma.2340.5496
1978 2341.4053Um,2342.0766 
1980 2342.8518<ts>2342.8871 
1982 2343.9439he- uh,2344.9990 
1984 2345.7318he works for, um-2347.5187 
1986 2348.4226<ts> Oh I gotta try to2349.3199 
1988 2349.8021/think of the-/ He works for /RD-WORK-2/.2351.4765 
1990 2352.0627He's an engineer at /RD-WORK-2/, so, uh,2354.4075 
1992 2354.7810it's a German company and stuff like that. He has to go to Germany s- sometimes also too.2359.1453 
1994 2359.7220But, uh, you know, he's well adjusted out there. He's, uh,2362.5774 
1996 2362.9470at the headquarters out there in Tulsa,2364.8380 
1998 2365.0933Oklahoma.2365.7788 
2000 2366.4595Uh, my oldest sister retired from, uh,2369.2629 
2002 2370.1639uh, the /RD-WORK-9/ where she worked at the hospital, uh,2373.8900 
2004 2374.1500she had gotten her doctorate.2375.4311 
2006 2376.0835Uh, my other sister next-2378.0037 
2008 2378.0983next to me had worked for /RD-WORK-2/ for so many years.2381.0388 
2010 2381.5763And I have a older brother, uh, believe it or not,2384.8958 
2012 2385.5766uh, he's one of the top ski instructors in New York State here, so.2389.5343 
2014 2390.1725Uh,2390.7256 
2016 2390.9431family is sort of2391.9595 
2018 2392.1675rounded out2392.9239 
2020 2393.1366pretty well and, uh,2394.4272 
2022 2395.3925you know, I guess we can attribute most of that to our parents.2398.2242 
2027 2400.2957and for you, [you-] you wanna stay put here for,2403.4017 
2029ROC_int_012403.9075you know,2404.5702
2031 2404.6923I don't know, the next few decades or are you thinking [maybe] retire [somewhere] else?2409.3294 
2034 2408.3933[I d- I-]2408.8803 
2035 2409.3955I-2409.6461
2037 2409.8777it all depends. I- I-2411.3630 
2039 2411.5663I never know where I'm going but, uh,2413.6464 
2041 2414.5068uh,2415.3577 
2043 2415.5421you know, uh,2416.6444 
2045 2416.7437what I try to do maybe the last ten, twelve years, is put an emphasis on supporting my wife, /RD-NAME-3/.2422.6909 
2047 2423.3110And, uh, she went and got all of her education and, uh, she's got career goals and stuff like that, so2429.2610 
2049 2429.7810you never know, we might have to pack this stuff up and go somewhere. But, uh,2433.4172 
2051 2433.7718she has a passion for community colleges and, uh,2436.9108 
2053 2437.6066you know, she would like to be a president of one one day, so we- we- we'll have to see what happens. And, uh,2443.1519 
2055 2444.0037uh, certainly, uh,2445.6347 
2057 2446.5329I guess I'm prepared to travel with them if, uh, they decide that they wanna do that.2450.2968 
2060 2452.0554Um,2452.6889 
2062 2452.8449there was one more question I wanted to ask about2455.4136 
2064 2455.4809Rochester in general2456.7999 
2066 2456.8803and that is, uh, m- what are your favorite aspects of Rochester?2461.0338 
2069 2462.4670<clears throat>2462.8972 
2071 2463.2140all that I've told you, uh, about Rochester and it's challenges and stuff like that, I-2468.6419 
2073 2469.0769I believe that it's, uh,2470.3769 
2075 2470.8733still a great city.2472.0457 
2077 2472.7548Uh, historically, uh, it may be something in the water, what have you, but,2478.2301 
2079 2478.8399uh, the Nineteenth Century Freedom Movement, uh,2482.2776 
2081 2483.0151is basically an international movement that was started here with Frederick Douglass and Susan B. Anthony.2488.2020 
2083 2488.6322And then there's other2489.4631 
2085 2489.5340folks that have come along2490.9439 
2087 2491.3892to, uh, make this, uh, an industrial giant, uh, George Eastman,2496.1592 
2089 2496.6366uh, Joseph Wilson, everyone. So2498.6277 
2091 2499.0012there's something about Rochester that, um,2501.5021 
2093 2502.5686<ts>2502.6086 
2095 2502.9250uh, it has,2504.1494 
2097 2504.3677uh, a very, very rich history2506.4289 
2099 2507.0009and a resilience for working together. And,2509.9509 
2101 2510.3252uh,2511.3652 
2103 2511.5874my understanding of studying history,2513.4217 
2105 2513.8046Frederick Douglass came here because, uh,2516.2448 
2107 2516.5852the people had tolerance.2517.9893 
2109 2518.6086And so, uh,2519.7810 
2111 2519.9039you know, if we can find those things again, I'm quite sure that2523.3719 
2113 2523.8163there's other folks that are being born right now, or2526.5922 
2115 2526.9656have yet- we've yet to hear their voice, that are gonna do something similar.2530.8563 
2117 2531.5379And so, uh,2532.4787 
2119 2532.7813once again it could be, uh, something in the Genesee River or what-2536.5632 
2121 2536.9868whatever, the Hemlock Lake or what have you, but,2539.2039 
2123 2539.8052uh, very brilliant people come out of, uh, Rochester,2543.1049 
2125 2543.5446uh, very decent and hardworking people of all, uh,2546.9114 
2127 2547.2376races and creeds.2548.5518 
2129 2549.0293Um,2549.5493 
2131 2549.6439I've- I've always been excited of, um,2552.2487 
2133 2553.0485you know, a lot of the African American accomplishments that, uh, have happened in the city,2557.5963 
2135 2557.9659and how, uh, we should uplift those things, and, uh,2561.2137 
2137 2561.7242make them, uh, /sancrosant/.2563.7476 
2139 2563.9848Uh,2564.6041 
2141 2565.0579to-2565.4645 
2143 2565.8191that they have a value for us and that we don't forget it.2568.3435 
2145 2568.8872And, uh, certainly, uh,2570.9587 
2147 2571.2518persons such as yourself, you make us proud because2574.0977 
2149 2574.4901you're going further than what, uh, we could ever imagine or dream of.2578.2856 
2152 2580.2112thank you.2580.7312 
2154 2580.9014[<laugh>]2581.4592 
2158 2582.7148and then my last couple questions are more so language related.2585.9870 
2160 2586.4692Um,2586.9373 
2162 2587.4667and that is whether or not,2589.0599 
2164 2589.1781uh,2589.6839 
2166 2590.1595maybe you've perceived,2592.0457 
2168 2592.2348uh, certain Rochesterians to have an accent?2594.9114 
2170 2595.2376Or maybe you've been told by2597.3460 
2172 2597.4843people who are not from here2599.1405 
2174 2599.4289that you have an accent?2600.6675 
2175ROC_se0_ag3_m_012601.7737Well, wo- once again, uh, in the fifties and sixties, people came here from the South2606.6061
2177 2607.2064and so,2607.9014 
2179 2608.1575we heard a lot of southern accents.2610.2849 
2181 2610.9467And, uh, we were made fun of just based upon how we,2615.5568 
2183 2616.5922um, had names for certain things.2619.3577 
2185 2619.8588In the South when you came up here, uh, you wanted a soft drink, they call it a soda.2624.6656 
2187 2625.2112We call it pop up here.2626.6483 
2189 2627.4197And so, um,2628.5260 
2191 2628.9373uh,2629.9017 
2193 2632.0224folks from the South would think that,2633.7006 
2195 2634.8494uh, we're somewhat proper2636.6277 
2197 2637.1572in-2637.5886 
2199 2637.7210in-2638.0519 
2201 2638.2457in o-2638.6074 
2203 2638.8343in our- uh,2640.2159 
2205 2641.2465you know,2641.7949 
2207 2642.7318our speech, or,2644.0365 
2209 2645.9086you know, to the degree that, um,2647.7192 
2211 2648.4954we grew up2649.2518 
2213 2649.3889not so much,2650.8024 
2215 2651.0057uh, in close proximity,2652.9818 
2217 2653.4317uh, with each other in the fifties and sixties. Now,2656.7126 
2219 2657.4349<ts>2657.4725 
2221 2657.5210uh, there's a mixture2659.1709 
2223 2659.5310of- uh,2660.4387 
2225 2661.1478of, uh, all of that language and- and-2663.5549 
2227 2663.6471and how it has gotten passed down.2665.7429 
2229 2666.2401When you- when you mix it-2667.4929 
2231 2667.8947when you mix it up you get a hodgepodge2670.2159 
2233 2670.7123of,2671.1425 
2235 2671.6669uh, southern dialect2673.2979 
2237 2674.3392<ts>2674.3840 
2239 2674.4854and, uh, northern dialect.2676.1258 
2241 2676.7829Uh, the dialect of New York City's much different from borough to borough.2680.6083 
2243 2681.3079You know, uh, that dynamic is based upon,2684.4848 
2245 2684.9064uh,2685.6911 
2247 2685.8093i-2685.9559 
2249 2686.2584is a-2686.7501 
2251 2687.8658the linguist, uh,2689.3786 
2253 2689.8229somewhat comes and melts together.2691.6060 
2255 2691.9133You get Irish, Italian,2693.5679 
2257 2693.8374African American. And so everyone2695.9742 
2259 2696.2531has a-2697.0285 
2261 2697.5351um,2698.1166 
2263 2698.6035uh, an accent,2699.8658 
2265 2700.3338you know, that's similar2701.5677 
2267 2701.8986or the same, you know, and, I mean,2703.5282 
2269 2703.5932that's the way that,2704.6855 
2271 2704.8131uh,2705.1964 
2273 2705.7604uh, environments, uh, basically do to where2709.0988 
2275 2709.3825you would never hear that anywhere else.2711.2545 
2277 2711.7367Uh, you would go to Boston and possibly just2714.0532 
2279 2714.5504basically hear,2715.7607 
2281 2716.1956uh, a very strong Irish accent2718.7011 
2283 2719.0368out of everyone that's in the region. So,2721.5621 
2285 2722.1956uh, I don't think Rochester ever had anything in terms of an accent,2726.1336 
2287 2726.2904uh, for, uh, blacks. But2728.4792 
2289 2729.1033one thing that blacks prided themselves on when I was coming up, my-2733.7512 
2291 2734.1341my parents and grandparents and everything,2735.8360 
2293 2736.1244is that you had to try to s- speak as proper as possible, you know. I mean, you couldn't2739.9356 
2295 2740.2240shortcut things or anything else like that. They were afraid that there was some,2743.7601 
2297 2744.3188uh, big white person in the sky or somewhere that was gonna look at you and say that, you know,2748.9659 
2299 2749.4245uh, you're-2750.6072 
2301 2750.7963you're- you're an ignorant so-and-so, so,2752.9567 
2303 2753.6044um,2754.2568 
2305 2754.6681you know, we were always encouraged to read the newspaper and stuff like that.2758.0018 
2307 2758.5171And so, um,2759.6847 
2309 2760.8559<ts>2760.9053 
2311 2761.3299our dialect2762.3802 
2313 2762.4826was n-2762.8230 
2315 2763.0752was- was nothing that we could ever hone in on.2765.9448 
2317 2766.6208Uh,2767.3299 
2319 2767.6002we had to try to2768.7490 
2321 2769.4865s- so- sort of master, uh, our intellect and, uh, how we articulated a thing.2774.5599 
2323 2775.1603But, uh, as people were coming up from the South, migrating and stuff like that,2779.0604 
2325 2779.5143um,2780.3188 
2327 2782.1909you live in cl-2782.8291 
2329 2783.0093close proximity, then you find yourself2785.4339 
2331 2785.8224somewhat almost with that accent, or2788.3327 
2333 2788.6447at least some of the dialect.2789.9731 
2335 2790.5782And we ha- w- we had folks that2792.4795 
2337 2792.7395if they come from Louisiana,2794.2665 
2339 2794.6447they come from South Carolina where2796.3750 
2341 2796.7059folks were Geechee and stuff like that, they come up.2799.2123 
2343 2799.6519Uh,2800.2192 
2345 2800.6400it sort of gets passed down, but,2802.5404 
2347 2803.1313you know.2803.5426 
2349 2803.8886I mean, that's- that's- that's the way that it is, and the m-2806.4556 
2351 2806.7629more that2807.4105 
2353 2807.7226folks have to come together based upon circumstances,2810.6686 
2355 2811.1272you see the linguist, uh,2812.8102 
2357 2813.2451type of thing. It changes,2814.6113 
2359 2815.0273um,2815.5474 
2361 2815.7940after a few generations.2817.2501 
2364 2818.9425And so, black Americans2820.7768 
2366 2821.1172don't really have the accent but do2823.2690 
2368 2823.5952any white Americans you think have2825.3916 
2370 2825.9306an accent,2826.6822 
2372 2826.9186uh, that's kind of like2828.0674 
2374 2828.8199Rochesterian to you?2830.4887 
2377 2831.8124I think, uh,2832.9092 
2379 2834.7253<sigh>2835.4486 
2381 2837.0040w- when you- when you come to upstate New York2839.6948 
2383 2840.1675once again,2841.0574 
2385 2841.1969it's that, um,2842.5927 
2387 2843.9117it all depends if-2845.0502 
2389 2845.1377if you're coming to rural upstate New York,2847.4854 
2391 2847.7982uh,2848.3466 
2393 2849.1739it- there's sort of, uh,2850.4834 
2395 2850.6867a farmer's2851.8355 
2397 2852.2846type of, uh,2853.2773 
2399 2854.1197uh,2854.6964 
2401 2855.1975dialect, but, uh,2856.7009 
2403 2857.3911certainly in Rochester, what, uh, this city has2860.8004 
2405 2861.0935pushed2861.5590 
2407 2861.6654is2862.0437 
2409 2862.6678su- s- such of its intellectualism because of, uh,2865.7785 
2411 2866.1055its universities, uh,2867.6041 
2413 2867.8074and its industry and stuff like that.2869.7882 
2415 2870.1522You really couldn't-2870.9748 
2417 2871.3104I never really got a pitch,2872.9564 
2419 2873.6372uh, to where I said,2875.0980 
2421 2875.7220that sounds Rochesterian, you know.2877.6650 
2423 2878.2284Uh,2878.8241 
2425 2879.4245you know it just doesn't, but I've traveled a lot of places,2882.3177 
2427 2882.8282and2883.4003 
2429 2884.1906even in Pennsylvania, you get the strong Dutch2886.9845 
2431 2887.7125type of, uh,2888.7242 
2433 2889.1592accent and stuff like that, but up here, I- you just can't2892.4361 
2435 2893.2587I c- I just could never tell.2894.6250 
2439 2895.9022the- the- there may be-2897.2401 
2441 2897.4481there may be that2898.4019 
2443 2898.5035but,2898.8521 
2445 2899.5459um,2900.1841 
2447 2900.7601it's not something that, uh,2902.3580 
2449 2903.0813uh,2903.8897 
2451 2905.1575registered with me2906.4245 
2453 2906.8547[in- in such] a way, you know.2908.1973 
2455 2908.5471Yeah,2909.0009
2457 2909.2278I ask because of- I get mixed reviews from people, sometimes they say, you know, it's kind of nasaly, we talk-2915.5315 
2459 2915.8282you know, uh, feel like they talk through their nose or-2918.8594 
2461ROC_int_012919.3983And] so I was just seeing if you had any perspective [about-]2922.0382
2463 2922.1828yeah.2922.5113
2467 2925.3057you know, there might be a little-2926.7579 
2469 2926.8761little something to that but2928.3416 
2471 2928.6252w- one thing is is that2930.3413 
2473 2931.7274<ts>2931.8239 
2475 2932.1661for African Americans, uh,2934.0993 
2477 2934.1720the- there wasn't that really mixing2936.5871 
2479 2936.8046of, uh,2937.5326 
2481 2938.2331uh, the races in the fifty and sixty, even though we were in the neighborhoods and stuff like that, there still wasn't that,2943.5137 
2483 2944.1149you know.2944.4884 
2485 2944.9801Folks sort of looked down2946.2659 
2487 2946.7387each other, they sort of2947.9442 
2489 2948.8653kept to themselves and stuff like that, and as whites moved out2952.0457 
2491 2952.6989and blacks moved in,2954.0226 
2493 2954.8026uh, you know, your folks would challenge you,2957.3035 
2495 2957.6195I don't wanna s- ever hear you speaking like that.2959.9990 
2497 2960.8594You know, so.2961.8711 
2499 2962.8355Uh,2963.4500 
2501 2964.3585but in terms of, uh,2965.6728 
2503 2966.3346uh,2967.1714 
2505 2967.6914the dominant society and, uh, their dialect or something like that,2971.4998 
2507 2971.7409I just never picked that up.2972.9748 
2509 2974.5073I just never,2975.3157 
2511 2975.4670you know.2975.8783 
2513 2976.7056So we2977.3249 
2515 2977.5802sort of have to see that. I mean,2979.0646 
2517 2979.3766I guess in your study of it there's-2981.0683 
2519 2981.5237the- the- there may be some keys and some things to2984.3555 
2521 2984.6722basically look at,2985.7690 
2523 2986.3466uh, in- in order to,2988.1808 
2525 2988.7623um,2989.5093 
2527 2989.9253detect2990.6959 
2529 2991.3341or, you know, become aware of. But, uh,2994.0863 
2531 2994.7860I think2995.2682 
2533 2995.4667people are like this here. As they2997.5752 
2535 2998.8193go through their daily routines,3000.7340 
2537 3001.5471uh, that's something that is so3003.9912 
2539 3004.8052unconscious3005.9492 
2541 3007.0460that,3007.4384 
2543 3008.2798you know.3008.7337 
2545 3009.1072I'm amazed that, uh,3010.6444 
2547 3010.8572a lot of the3011.5521 
2549 3011.9965actors and actress that, uh,3013.8402 
2551 3015.0031you know, they're from England, when they come over here and they3017.1219 
2553 3017.3441act in these movies and stuff like that, you3019.7125 
2555 3020.3271never knew that they had the accent, you know.3022.2748 
2557 3022.5735So, I mean,3023.3015 
2559 3023.5001people sort of switch it up, but yeah.3025.1783 
2561 3025.9584Uh,3026.4264 
2563 3027.2395wherever you go3028.3410 
2565 3028.8572you do pick up the accent.3030.2612 
2567 3030.6536But there's- there was never one up here that3032.9511 
2569 3033.3246I thought3033.8541 
2571 3034.1724was picked up,3034.9761 
2573 3035.1014you know.3035.5410 
2575 3036.0532Downstate New York? Yes,3037.7787 
2577 3038.1617without a doubt.3039.0362 
2579 3039.6035You can go from borough to borough and it's much different.3042.8238 
2581 3043.4242Queens they speak way different than the Bronx. The Bronx3046.3079 
2583 3046.8902is a little bit more heavy3048.2187 
2585 3048.6394laden and-3049.4856 
2587 3049.7173and sort of longated, you know.3051.4948 
2589 3051.8691Uh,3052.5262 
2591 3053.3204Brooklyn has more of a-3055.3296 
2593 3056.5919uh, you know, a rhythm to it and Manhattan, they're just-3060.1572 
2595 3060.7907it's like their head is up in the clouds, you know.3063.1489 
2597 3063.2358S- I don't know why it's like that3064.7267 
2599 3065.3838but,3065.7526 
2601 3066.4286you know, it's- it's just different.3068.2874 
2603ROC_se0_ag3_m_013069.5716Automatically when friends come up3071.5020
2605 3071.9653or I know somebody, they say I'm from New York City, I say you from the Bronx.3075.3416 
2607 3076.1831You almost can detect it, so3078.1497 
2609 3079.0960it's- it's just not like that3080.7317 
2611 3080.9256up here, and, um,3082.5565 
2613 3083.9667<ts>3084.0043 
2615 3084.2348I never noticed it in Buffalo either, so,3086.6561 
2617 3087.4740you know.3087.9136 
2622 3090.5799so those are all the questions I have, but if you have any,3093.8230 
2624 3093.9556uh, last few comments you wanna say3096.3530 
2626 3096.7009you know, you're welcome to share 'em, about Rochester,3098.9167 
2628 3099.0273um, in general.3099.8399 
2629ROC_se0_ag3_m_013100.8430Well, once again, you know I- I like Rochester. Uh,3103.9631
2631 3104.1097<clears throat>3104.8566 
2633 3105.2490I think we always have to have,3106.7677 
2635 3106.8954uh, a place that,3108.3226 
2637 3109.0068uh, we can say is home,3110.5621 
2639 3111.1444you know, no matter where you go.3112.8558 
2641 3113.4656Uh, /and then say/ well Rochester is home, you know.3116.0279 
2643 3116.6528And, um,3117.5699 
2645 3117.9623be fond of telling folks of, uh,3120.2031 
2647 3120.9028uh, your childhood because, uh, it was a good childhood.3124.0568 
2649 3124.8510So I think, uh, based upon3127.5574 
2651 3128.0760who and what your family is, then that's what your town is.3131.9005 
2653 3132.7137Uh, you might not like it so much if you didn't come from,3135.8961 
2655 3136.5343uh,3137.3474 
2657 3138.4064uh, the type of loving and caring,3140.7323 
2659 3141.2721uh, family or environment.3142.6808 
2661 3143.1961Uh, someone ask you about Rochester, I hate it.3145.3519 
2663 3146.1138Because all of your3147.1302 
2665 3147.9245circumstances and situation,3149.9194 
2667 3150.4631uh, when you were young o- or whatever, it- it- it just brings up the pain about it. But3154.8936 
2669 3155.2245I've got fond memories of coming up, uh,3158.1745 
2671 3158.9742you know, playing, hanging out and,3161.0496 
2673 3161.5932uh, exploring, uh,3163.6450 
2675 3164.0855lot of places that we weren't supposed to go and things like that, when we were little we3168.0376 
2677 3168.3638did it anyhow,3169.4937 
2679 3169.9058uh, behind our parents' back, so.3171.9434 
2681 3172.4019You know, it was a lot of adventure here in Rochester for me, so,3175.2762 
2683 3175.7395you know,3176.1555 
2685 3176.5488I'm sort of a proud Rochesterian.3178.3310 
2688ROC_int_013179.9147Okay, [cool.]3180.7846
2692 3181.9834I- I would like to ask at the end if you, uh, still consent to me3185.9459 
2694 3186.2957using this interview?3187.4587 
2696ROC_int_013188.3311Yeah, okay.3188.9147
2699 3189.6380[without a doubt.]3190.2620 
2701 3190.5533thank you,3191.0462
2702ROC_se0_ag3_m_013191.1052[Okay, thank you.]3191.8972
2703ROC_int_013191.2021[I appreciate] it.3192.2469
2704ROC_se0_ag3_m_013192.5840I hope I've contributed.3193.6583