Line	Speaker	St Time	Content	En Time
1	ROC_int_01	0.1981	So, um,	1.3738
3		1.6789	<ts>	1.7507
5		2.2578	yeah what part of the city I guess (laughing) where y- did you grow up?	5.1279
6	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	5.1863	<ts>	5.2758
8		5.3972	Uh, it would be southwest Rochester.	7.9711
10		9.6180	And um, I grew up on <exhale> /RD-ADDRESS-5/ Street.	14.3440
12		15.4397	Uh,	16.0859
14		16.3776	we lived on /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Street.	17.7418
16		18.7918	So that was my earliest- uh,	21.3182
18		21.7458	you know,	22.2080
20		22.5364	my childhood all the way up to, you know,	24.7508
22		24.8530	my teenage years.	25.8706
23	ROC_int_01	26.0366	Ah, okay.	26.9161
25		27.1046	And what was that neighborhood like for like someone who	29.8490
27		30.0734	is not from Rochester? How would you describe it?	32.1672
28	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	32.1161	<ts>	32.1704
29		32.2435	Well, I think early, uh,	33.9846
31		34.4034	in my life when, uh,	35.9598
33		36.2872	attending grade school,	37.5484
35		37.7099	uh, the neighborhood was	39.2985
37		40.1160	I thinks	40.5871
39		40.9865	pretty much diverse	42.3544
41		42.4949	at the time,	43.2796
43		43.9527	and, um,	45.0431
45		45.3895	as I started getting older around maybe seventh, eighth grade, uh, people started moving out of the neighborhood,	51.7347
47		52.3009	that, uh, were white and, uh, other ethnicities. And, uh,	56.1331
49		56.9026	<ts>	56.9538
51		57.1275	what-	57.3249
53		57.5224	what tend to happen is that,	59.1954
55		59.2897	um,	59.7616
57		61.0418	<ts>	61.1089
59		61.2439	uh,	61.8419
61		63.6287	blacks, uh, basically moved in	66.0564
63		66.4153	and so we settled in what was called the third ward at that time.	69.9765
64	ROC_int_01	71.0273	Mm.	71.3235
66		72.3799	And then, um, you said you grew up there until your teenage years. Where was the next	76.6097
68		76.8726	part of Rochester you live in?	78.3628
69	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	78.6837	Well, the next part of Rochester, it- it sort of varied. Uh, I still was, uh, located, uh,	84.2956
71		84.6321	uh,	85.0866
73		85.1885	pretty much in the Southwest.	86.6792
75		87.1593	But, uh, I moved, uh, across town to the Northeast.	91.3147
77		91.9661	Um,	92.5764
79		93.4829	and I was young at the time, I did a lot of, uh,	96.1977
81		96.7882	exploring as, uh, a young person.	99.0678
83		99.5570	Uh,	100.0281
85		100.2668	sort of troubled as a young-	101.9361
87		103.1836	uh, as a young man. So, uh,	105.6606
89		106.1147	it took me to, uh, various neighborhoods in the city of Rochester at that time, so.	110.0905
91		110.7187	Uh, I-	111.2438
93		111.3567	I- I did have the experience, uh, very young, of living in	115.4313
95		116.0820	quite a few neighborhoods in the city of Rochester.	118.5598
96	ROC_int_01	119.4034	Mm,	119.7310
98		120.0541	okay.	120.5657
100		120.9408	Um,	121.4703
102		121.6498	and	122.3274
104		122.5562	did you go to school in,	124.2974
106		124.5397	uh,	125.1275
108		125.4065	the neighborhoods? Let's see,	126.9727
110		127.4528	I guess, so, did you go to school in the third ward?	130.0690
111	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	130.1767	Yes, right in the s- southwest neighborhood. Uh,	132.7487
113		133.3815	m- my earlier school was about maybe a four, five block walk. Uh, we went to /RD-SCHOOL-4/ School on, uh, /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Street.	140.8583
115		141.6675	Uh, we stayed very far from that. And then around nineteen sixty-two, /RD-SCHOOL-8/, uh, opened.	148.0479
117		148.5872	And, uh, we were the inaugural, uh, students at that school.	153.1105
119		153.6946	And, uh, from there I went to, uh, /RD-SCHOOL-3/ High School.	157.7019
121		158.4333	Um, <clears throat>	159.4161
123		159.7867	had a little difficulty at that school and then transferred to /RD-SCHOOL-2/ High School, uh, on /RD-ADDRESS-4/ Street, so.	165.7153
125		166.4019	You know, I was educated in the public school system. Uh,	169.5278
127		169.9702	unfortunately I didn't graduate,	171.7124
129		171.7771	uh, but, uh,	173.1518
131		174.0326	I continued to, um,	175.6777
133		176.8195	<ts>	176.8738
135		176.9476	uh, sort of strive around the city of Rochester.	179.7145
137		180.3203	Uh,	181.4044
139		182.5532	took a break back and forth, uh, lived a little bit in Binghamton y-	186.9651
141		187.1311	New York when, uh, I was young.	188.9844
143		189.5551	And, uh, when I came back here I settled once again,	192.3911
145		193.0508	uh, in the northeast part of the city.	195.2047
146	ROC_int_01	195.5735	Okay.	196.1165
147	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	196.1479	Yeah.	196.4800
148	ROC_int_01	196.5787	And what was interesting to you about	198.7860
150		198.9211	Binghamton?	199.5583
151	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	200.6828	Well, uh, w- what- what happened is that, um,	203.8599
153		204.7572	<ts>	204.8148
155		204.8973	like I said I was-	205.9069
157		207.1051	you know I g-	207.6211
159		207.7393	I-	207.9054
161		208.0063	I got into, uh, trouble with, uh,	211.6400
163		212.0779	uh, narcotics.	213.3748
165		214.0730	Uh,	214.7781
167		214.9217	I was addicted very young as a young person to, uh, drugs, so it sort of followed that and	220.0932
169		220.7645	uh, th-	221.1728
171		221.2682	the lifestyle that I had back at, uh, you know tha- that time,	225.3847
173		225.4744	it	225.7078
175		226.0918	it move-	226.6438
177		226.7784	moved us to different cities and stuff because, uh,	229.3658
179		229.8370	we were in that,	230.5056
181		230.5893	uh, trade at that time and so, uh,	232.9391
183		233.5969	uh,	234.2027
185		234.3407	caused me to be very, very mobile	237.0049
187		237.1083	and, uh,	238.1318
189		238.5505	really not putting down a lot of roots anywhere.	240.5698
190	ROC_int_01	241.1899	Mm-hm.	241.6521
191	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	241.7732	Yeah.	242.1143
192	ROC_int_01	242.1861	Yeah, makes sense.	243.1643
194		243.2989	And then when you returned from Binghamton and kind of settled down,	247.1607
196		247.6095	uh,	247.9914
198		248.1113	what did you decide, I guess was,	250.2584
200		250.4181	uh, the next step for you maybe in terms of school, or?	253.2523
201	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	253.8042	Well th- the n-	254.6389
203		254.7499	the next step for me is that I wound up incarcerated,	257.8962
205		258.0353	but, uh, when I finally got out	259.7989
207		260.4638	uh, I settled down in the Northeast.	263.0620
209		263.5107	Uh, I got married,	264.7852
211		264.9422	uh, had my children.	266.4320
213		267.0091	Um,	267.7989
215		268.8246	worked, uh,	270.1798
217		271.0440	pretty much in the Northeast at the public markets and /?/	273.8487
219		274.0533	things like that. And, uh,	275.6328
221		276.2061	that	276.5662
223		276.8471	sort of,	277.5516
225		277.9913	uh,	278.4939
227		278.8799	started getting me somewhat settled.	280.6236
229		281.1441	When-	281.4400
231		281.5331	when, uh, I got out of incarceration,	284.2014
233		284.6689	uh, while I was incarcerated I accepted Islam.	287.5722
235		287.9537	And so, um,	289.1608
237		289.6424	I became Muslim and I started, uh, practicing the faith and, uh,	293.5027
239		293.9209	I attended, uh, the mosque on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street. It was called /RD-ADDRESS-4/ at the time.	298.5361
241		299.1293	And, uh, from there, um,	301.2967
243		301.8486	I had various responsibilities and duties in the, uh, mosque until I sort of worked my way up and, uh,	308.0196
245		308.8165	I finally became the leader of the mosque and, um,	311.7782
247		313.0803	we ran- um,	314.3009
249		315.6561	um,	316.9350
251		317.1935	you know, we- we- we had a private school at that time, it was /RD-SCHOOL-7/ School.	322.2534
253		322.8323	Uh, we-	323.6176
255		324.8030	we educated our own children and everything else like that. Uh,	328.2718
257		328.8713	uh, the school, uh, stayed around a good, uh, fifteen to twenty years before it closed. Uh,	335.2371
259		336.6128	we fell on some hard times and, uh, closed the mosque but now, uh, we have a place, uh, on /RD-ADDRESS-2/ Boulevard right now, /RD-NAME-9/.	345.2770
261		345.7930	So, um,	346.6726
263		347.4901	what- what- what-	348.3965
265		348.8363	what tend to happen is that on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street, uh, we were confronted with a lot of, uh, graff,	354.2956
267		354.6905	uh, crime and corruption because	356.4836
269		356.9170	/RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street at the time in the, uh, northeast part of the city,	360.4845
271		361.1001	was- um,	362.1412
273		362.9669	it was a place that was filled with vice, uh, and for forty years it was like a red light,	367.4139
275		367.5403	uh, district.	368.3436
277		368.9987	And, uh, we decided to, um,	371.7360
279		372.6433	uh, do something about that.	374.0972
281		374.3530	Uh, couple times our mosque had been broken into so	377.3057
283		377.9321	we decided that we were gonna become, um,	380.6604
285		381.4685	<ts> I wouldn't say vigil-	382.4293
287		382.5459	vigilantes but were gonna try to take	384.8244
289		385.1352	our neighborhood and make something out of it.	386.9750
291		387.5412	So, uh, we were able to close about maybe three or four bars on /RD-ADDRESS-1/ Street.	392.0122
293		392.0969	Uh,	392.6651
295		393.5866	those bars are still closed today. You can hardly find any crime and corrup-	397.3650
297		397.6279	corruption that is up there. And	399.3791
299		399.4778	then based upon that, our group which was called	402.1673
301		402.6411	/RD-WORK-1/ at the time, /RD-WORK-13/,	405.9214
303		406.4625	we went to various neighborhoods,	408.8116
305		408.9428	uh, and tried to share with neighbors, uh,	411.7199
307		411.9705	effective ways of, uh,	413.5624
309		414.0246	getting drugs and-	415.4336
311		415.6767	and, uh, crime out of the neighborhoods.	418.0192
313		418.3378	Making public safety-	419.7334
315		420.1462	Uh, we helped the sisters start block clubs and things like that. Based upon that, um,	425.2492
317		425.8729	I sat on a-	426.8871
319		427.2558	uh, a council that	428.8444
321		428.9655	the city of Rochester had at the time, Uh,	431.4426
323		432.0626	the mayor of the city of Rochester, the county exec, and a few, uh, local business people along with a lot of	438.0668
325		438.3997	community-based organizations.	440.1004
327		440.3966	They had a lofty goal of, uh, reducing, uh, drug addiction,	444.1615
329		444.6559	uh, in the city of Rochester by fifty percent.	447.2182
331		447.6535	So it was called Rochester Fights Back. And, uh, it was a coalition.	451.3044
333		451.7539	I volunteered there for some time and then, uh, I was hired as a neighborhood coordinator,	457.1837
335		457.6773	uh,	458.2427
337		458.4275	for, uh, that organization.	460.8911
339		461.5193	And, um,	462.2151
341		462.2981	<clears throat>	462.5651
343		462.7334	we- we didn't meet the goal of, uh, reducing drugs in ten years by fifty percent,	468.2454
345		468.9283	but, uh, we did uncover, uh, a lot of the things that, uh,	473.3618
347		473.8607	uh,	474.3633
349		474.4762	kept narcotics, uh, somewhat as a challenge for the city of Rochester.	479.1290
351		479.8612	Um,	480.2875
353		480.4939	the city of Rochester,	482.0152
355		483.1550	uh, would be	484.2005
357		484.5109	just like, uh, the public market is for people that wanna come in	488.2265
359		488.6573	from all over the region	489.9811
361		490.5959	and visit the public market,	492.3250
363		492.5083	buy food there.	493.6975
365		494.2449	Uh, I'm quite sure you know where the public market is and have-	496.8117
367		497.1240	and have been there.	498.0394
369		498.4343	Well, years they've been trying to take the public market and take it out of the city of Rochester, but	502.7866
371		503.1545	people love coming back in,	504.7906
373		505.1855	uh, to their old neighborhoods and driving into the city,	507.9415
375		508.2781	those that had left, uh, prior.	510.0910
377		510.6553	And, uh, the atmosphere is, uh,	513.3156
379		513.8541	uh, an atmosphere where it's very diverse and people sort of love that feel.	518.1916
381		518.4930	It's urban.	519.3770
383		519.8078	It's, uh, eclectic.	521.5310
385		521.8990	And, um,	522.8234
387		523.1473	uh, f- folks acs-	524.4890
389		524.6057	actually like that, right?	525.9115
391		526.7909	<ts>	526.8325
393		526.9122	Well, if you	527.8590
395		528.3957	follow the analogy, um,	530.5003
397		531.1985	uh, drugs have a tendency to do the same thing in urban environments. Uh,	536.4020
399		537.0947	people come from all over,	538.7635
401		539.2173	uh, the county,	540.5883
403		541.0761	uh, all over, uh, rural areas	543.7518
405		544.1820	to, uh, purchase narcotics in-	546.3377
407		546.4776	in-	546.7707
409		546.8936	in-	547.0930
411		547.1761	in the city, and so	548.3119
413		548.9643	the city actually becomes	550.5480
415		550.9459	the public market	551.9907
417		552.1050	for,	552.6714
419		552.8180	uh, those type of things. So we've tried to work with,	555.6497
421		555.8058	uh, city police department and neighborhoods	557.8914
423		558.5249	to try and,	559.9668
425		560.1890	uh, deter people from coming in and doing that, but,	562.9084
427		564.4153	uh, racism,	565.4518
429		565.7496	uh,	566.3642
431		567.0647	uh, urban planning, uh,	569.2062
433		569.9201	uh, policies and, uh,	572.1183
435		572.6128	uh, faulty planning,	574.1161
437		574.5274	uh, redistricting, uh, our neighborhoods, regentrification	578.6809
439		579.1261	causes this to settle in,	580.7287
441		580.8280	uh, to such a degree	582.1706
443		582.6528	that i-	583.0002
445		583.1027	it becomes almost impossible to address. And so	586.0769
447		586.6214	what we have in the city of Rochester now is that,	589.1979
449		589.8030	uh, based upon the drug trade and public safety, a lot of people have moved.	594.2307
451		594.7866	Uh, there's a little tax base now.	596.6350
453		597.0510	Uh, there's entrenched,	599.1887
455		599.2927	uh, uh, poverty,	601.0088
457		601.1033	uh, to the deg- g-	601.8786
459		602.2604	to the degree cause it's concentrated.	603.9587
461		604.5213	Then in turn, that turns over	606.2233
463		606.3237	to, uh, how the public school systems work	608.9329
465		609.2529	and operate and so you can see that.	611.0727
467		611.1650	So,	611.5277
469		611.9957	most of my life, uh, the sixty-three years that I've been here,	615.1678
471		615.5597	uh, I've been in the city of Rochester, and I watched the city,	618.9634
473		619.4701	uh, be very bustling,	621.3469
475		621.4813	uh, when I was a young person	623.1670
477		623.5925	with a- um,	624.5143
479		624.9540	a bustling downtown,	626.3967
481		626.6473	strong tax base,	628.0419
483		628.4106	to where I am now that we	630.0794
485		630.3016	see the city, it has a lot of challenges.	632.6189
486	ROC_int_01	633.5313	Mm.	633.9142
488		634.4437	And so as far as,	635.7789
490		635.8903	um,	636.4434
492		636.8055	reducing narcotics go, do you think that Rochester has been moving in the right direction? Maybe, let's say in the last ten years?	644.3527
493	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	644.4865	Well, I don't- I don't think too many urban, uh, cities across, uh, America has moved in a good- good direction with that, but,	651.3300
495		651.8263	uh,	652.2613
497		652.3592	to-	652.7671
499		653.0193	to just give you the local, uh,	655.0866
501		655.6909	uh, reality about Rochester is that	658.2154
503		658.9529	there's always an ebb and flow in terms of way narcotics are d-	662.2393
505		662.4130	d-	662.5761
507		662.8125	distributed.	663.5547
509		663.9913	When I was coming up as a young man, heroin was, uh,	667.5227
511		668.6692	<ts>	668.7140
513		668.7735	uh,	669.1895
515		669.5725	a drug that literally	670.8037
517		670.9340	went through almost	672.1064
519		672.1842	all of the urban environments in America	674.3764
521		674.6931	and literally tore,	675.7994
523		676.2343	um,	676.9245
525		677.5872	uh, the urban environments down. This is the f-	680.0102
527		680.3197	one of the first things that caused	682.0357
529		682.3241	maybe white flight.	683.4234
531		683.9504	Uh, then, uh, maybe around the eighties, uh,	687.3617
533		687.6840	cocaine came in and the crack cocaine epidemic	690.5143
535		690.9034	did the same thing. Now there's a resurgent	693.1347
537		693.5299	again,	694.1681
539		694.4376	uh, for heroin, but this time,	696.2813
541		696.7123	uh, the d- dichotomy is- is that	698.6506
543		698.9390	it's just not an urban,	700.3761
545		700.7685	uh, issue or problem.	702.2718
547		702.6706	People from rural, um,	704.3811
549		704.9484	uh, areas in the suburbs, uh,	707.3311
551		707.6837	now we have, uh, uh, white kids getting very addicted to it. And so	711.8183
553		712.2863	there's a outcry, and an alarmist view that, uh, something really needs to be done about it.	717.6122
555		718.0763	And so,	718.6484
557		719.2677	there may be, uh, an uptick	721.5630
559		721.6929	to try to address the problem,	723.7143
561		724.1492	but there seems to be a little bit more compassion now because	727.0736
563		727.3005	another demographic is, uh,	729.0024
565		729.3578	disproportionately,	730.6200
567		730.9651	uh, impacted by, uh, this drug trade.	733.7212
569		734.1562	And so, um,	735.5508
571		736.0811	most folks that could read the tea leaves,	738.8277
573		739.3005	uh,	740.0522
575		740.4993	basically said that this would happen.	742.2958
577		742.7260	Is that after a while if you think that you can control the masses of the population,	747.1017
579		747.5421	uh, s- especially in urban neighborhoods where it disproportionately	750.8797
581		751.1019	affects blacks,	752.2365
583		752.7565	uh, and, uh, minorities, uh,	755.1495
585		755.6270	that this thing would never touch,	757.3136
587		757.4151	uh, maybe the, uh,	759.2671
589		759.7885	uh, the rest of the dominant society it has. And	762.8386
591		763.1648	I think in the Northeast, um,	765.2449
593		766.1715	it's m-	766.8995
595		767.0043	more prevalent in the Northeast than anywhere else. It goes all the way up to the state of Maine.	771.3678
597		771.8594	It's- uh, it's a very, very big issue now, so.	774.5549
599		775.0371	You find, uh, the policies now,	777.7980
601		778.2830	uh, starting to be addressed	780.0258
603		780.1239	and, um,	780.9965
605		781.8044	uh, you starting to see maybe a little bit more compassion, uh,	785.1751
607		785.7613	uh,	786.2435
609		786.6131	around the, uh, criminal justice system incarcer-	789.3692
611		789.7048	incarceration and everything	791.2554
613		791.7076	taking, uh,	792.7760
615		792.8942	uh, its turn.	793.9595
617		794.4504	The neighborhood that I came up in, uh, /RD-NAME-2/ years ago,	798.1520
619		798.7343	uh, I can	799.5758
621		800.0296	just-	800.6395
623		800.8475	uh, just in a cursory way take a picture,	804.0811
625		804.3789	or a snapshot of all of my friends that have come up,	806.8191
627		807.3344	and not too many of 'em live now,	809.1876
629		809.4712	you know.	809.9345
631		810.4459	Uh, some have been incarcerated, some have passed,	813.4573
633		813.9395	uh, because of, uh,	815.4429
635		816.0102	uh, the life that they lived and everything else. So,	818.6158
637		819.0697	I know first hand the devastation,	821.2112
639		821.6934	uh, of the neighborhoods and	823.6664
641		823.7420	<clears throat>	823.9965
643		824.8033	what tends to happen,	825.9426
645		826.3870	uh,	827.0311
647		827.1280	uh, in the neighborhoods,	828.3772
649		828.7109	uh, linguistics	830.4270
651		830.7248	take over in the neighborhood	832.1565
653		832.3870	and shape it also too.	833.8667
655		834.2260	Shape it in the way of poverty, or shape it in the way of empowerment.	837.6448
657		838.0787	And what-	838.6639
659		838.8113	what-	839.0346
661		839.2407	what, uh, basically tends to happen is that,	841.4342
663		841.8361	when the educational system doesn't work,	844.7435
665		845.4582	uh, for the population that it needs to work for, right,	848.9754
667		849.3867	then, uh, the neighborhood,	851.2399
669		851.5811	the infrastructure and everything sort of caves in on,	854.3136
671		854.4004	uh, everyone. And so,	855.7223
673		856.2641	Rochester has taken its toll, uh,	859.0013
675		859.7396	you know, uh, from that time.	861.4368
677		861.9331	Now I was a young man when, uh, the riots were here in sixty-four.	865.8758
679		866.5433	Um,	867.1106
681		868.0891	think I was around twelve years old,	869.9045
683		870.3583	at the-	870.7082
685		870.8358	at the time, and	872.1375
687		872.2533	what-	872.5298
689		872.9640	what, uh,	873.8008
691		875.3656	what-	875.6208
693		875.9896	what we were told when it was ha- happening, at least by our parents,	880.1147
695		880.5402	was that there was a lot of frustration in the streets,	883.0344
697		883.4646	uh, same climate as it is now,	885.6987
699		886.0560	uh, possibly can't get a job,	887.6918
701		888.3016	police brutality.	889.4646
702	ROC_int_01	889.8389	[Mm-hm.]	890.1297
703	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	889.9498	[Uh], the same issues today, were the same issues of yesterday.	892.8361
704		893.3277	So, uh, you know,	894.8405
706		895.2810	there-	895.7680
708		895.9874	there was that fifty, sixty year,	897.8642
710		898.3038	um,	899.0082
712		899.7021	uh,	900.5686
714		901.5855	type of, uh,	902.6114
716		903.5691	uh, spiraling down of, uh, the neighborhoods and stuff	907.0958
718		907.4228	after the Civil Rights Act. So	909.1909
720		909.7535	any time, um,	911.4648
722		911.8856	you know, minorities or blacks, uh,	914.1122
724		914.5102	have ever achieved something,	915.9946
726		916.5052	uh, that was, uh, momentous and monumental,	919.2707
728		919.7396	there's trouble after it.	920.8269
730		921.2855	There was trouble after slavery, uh,	923.3277
732		923.8478	uh, J-	924.2260
734		924.3961	you know, Jim Crowism, um,	926.2777
736		926.9309	uh, redlining neighborhoods and everything else. So anytime that	931.1951
738		931.5127	a policy changed,	932.8269
740		933.1389	or law changed in favor,	934.7557
742		935.3419	uh, you know, of black populations,	937.6631
744		937.9760	the neighborhoods or the environments that they live in,	940.5193
746		940.7935	they were targeted for	942.1881
748		942.5143	cruel treatment,	943.4977
750		943.9476	um,	944.6851
752		944.9829	uh, misappropriation of- um,	947.6114
754		948.2936	<ts>	948.3448
756		948.4292	uh,	948.9965
758		949.1005	of resources,	950.3750
760		950.8194	um,	951.5663
762		952.3416	uh, political, uh, isolation.	955.4295
764		955.8692	I mean, we have the same things today. So,	957.9634
766		958.7018	we've got a	959.8364
768		960.0207	country where there's	961.1884
770		961.6375	close to	962.2291
772		962.3118	two hundred fifty million people,	963.8594
774		964.2688	and we find two candidates that everybody hates	967.1195
776		967.4276	to run for president of the United States, so.	969.5786
778		970.1837	Uh, you know, it- it let you know,	972.0558
780		972.6136	uh, you know, w-	973.7860
782		973.9240	where- where we're at as a	975.7299
784		976.0608	society and as a people. But,	978.0059
786		978.5805	uh, black people have to do a little bit better for themselves,	982.2972
788		982.7746	and <clears throat> one of the things that	984.7980
790		985.6706	we have to come to terms with	987.1598
792		987.6231	is that,	988.2093
794		988.7301	uh, the dominant society is never going to, uh,	992.5357
796		992.8099	liberate, or free us	994.3984
798		994.8200	until we go back to o-	996.3280
800		996.4604	you know, our basic	997.3822
802		997.5572	axiology	998.6067
804		999.0841	or our value system that is of value to us	1002.0274
806		1002.4103	which is our relationships.	1003.9184
808		1004.0658	Those are the biggest things that	1005.2713
810		1005.4651	black folks have.	1006.5288
812		1006.9212	The axiology of European people	1008.8594
814		1008.9349	is,	1009.3653
816		1009.7829	uh, an object and the acquisition of it,	1012.0715
818		1012.2593	and	1012.6186
820		1012.8928	that's- that's what they do. They go around	1014.8500
822		1015.1411	and conquer and do things like that.	1016.8572
824		1017.2212	And I'm not saying that's good, bad, or indifference,	1019.5594
826		1019.8667	but I'm just saying is that,	1021.0769
828		1021.1931	uh, for us, as a people,	1023.2307
830		1023.7838	we have to put a black head on a black body.	1025.9924
832		1026.4131	We can no longer put a white head on a black body and thinks that we're gonna get results.	1030.8758
834		1031.4582	And, uh, not be impacted, uh,	1034.0914
836		1034.4932	you know, adversely, uh,	1036.2140
838		1036.3019	by, uh,	1037.1717
840		1037.3892	a lot of decision making because,	1039.2471
842		1040.1887	um, <clears throat>	1040.9404
844		1041.1247	it doesn't fit	1042.1364
846		1042.8172	the DNA of who and what we are.	1044.6893
848		1045.1364	And if we go back and look at,	1047.3000
850		1047.4040	um,	1047.9067
852		1048.7874	just the basic ancestors is that,	1050.8277
854		1051.3289	uh,	1051.9064
856		1052.0522	we-	1052.3937
858		1052.4918	we were clumped together by circumstances, right?	1055.3670
860		1055.8397	So, s-	1056.4685
862		1057.1256	uh,	1057.7071
864		1058.4142	you know, so anguinity, uh,	1060.3194
866		1060.9056	is-	1061.2310
868		1061.3232	is-	1061.6518
870		1061.7369	is a- is a thing that	1062.9306
872		1063.2938	you're related by,	1064.5986
874		1065.2132	um,	1066.0594
876		1066.6172	circumstance and situation versus, uh, blood.	1069.6058
878		1070.3717	And so, this is how we are as a people, so we always find ourselves	1074.2813
880		1074.7691	with,	1075.1189
882		1075.4451	uh, few options	1076.9165
884		1077.0276	other than	1077.7285
886		1078.1539	to stay	1079.0049
888		1079.4114	in close proximity	1080.9487
890		1081.4529	to each other.	1082.2015
892		1082.6695	Uh, whether we're educated, or not educated,	1085.3169
894		1085.6865	whether we have a economic situation, or we don't	1088.1920
896		1088.5702	somehow, or another, uh, we're still there. And so,	1091.5344
898		1092.0363	uh,	1092.7360
900		1092.9298	we haven't ever been able in America to spread out	1095.6954
902		1095.8088	like, uh,	1096.4801
904		1096.8300	maybe other groups of people can do.	1098.4751
905	ROC_int_01	1099.0716	Mm.	1099.3884
906	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1099.8942	Didn't mean to go on so long [but], yeah.	1102.1783
907	ROC_int_01	1101.4306	[No],	1101.9000
908		1102.1879	it's-	1102.4768
910		1102.6139	it's totally fine.	1103.6634
911	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1103.6634	Yeah.	1104.0038
912	ROC_int_01	1104.0085	Um, I just wanna follow up, um, on your	1106.4507
914		1107.1030	point about the black head on a	1109.0649
916		1109.2805	black body	1110.0558
918		1110.4521	and whether, or n- what do you think that the, uh,	1112.7201
920		1113.1030	presidency of Barack Obama	1115.2961
922		1115.4211	has done	1116.1172
924		1116.2401	to, um,	1117.1336
926		1117.6173	<ts>	1117.7388
928		1118.7796	maybe improve the circumstances for,	1120.9921
930		1121.1906	uh, black people in this country?	1122.7176
931	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1123.1459	Well,	1123.4862
933		1123.6801	I th-	1123.9874
935		1124.1339	I- I don't think	1125.0794
937		1125.1759	that,	1125.6183
939		1125.8878	uh, his presidency has improved anything for us,	1129.3478
941		1129.9056	uh, other than,	1131.2599
943		1131.3375	um-	1131.8589
945		1133.0371	<ts>	1133.0915
947		1133.5608	Uh, there's- there's a message that the dominant society wants us to carry around that, uh,	1139.5722
949		1140.0458	uh, you had a black president, and things have changed. Uh,	1143.1281
951		1143.5063	which is, uh,	1144.5558
953		1145.0332	uh, basically far from the truth.	1146.7974
955		1147.0905	He-	1147.2891
957		1147.6956	uh, Barack Obama hadn't been able to do	1150.3714
959		1150.5904	a whole lot for our community.	1152.5319
961		1153.0547	Uh,	1153.6306
963		1153.8611	I think	1154.3175
965		1154.4102	we'll see, uh, his real value	1156.6976
967		1156.9860	and his worth after he's president.	1158.7210
969		1159.3505	Uh, that's where, uh,	1161.2132
971		1162.0736	we possibly have to hold him to the-	1163.8795
973		1164.3294	to the fire, or, uh,	1166.2535
975		1166.7782	uh, put our judgements.	1168.0795
977		1168.1953	But,	1168.4801
979		1168.8517	without a doubt,	1169.6742
981		1169.9957	the President of the Unites States	1171.5038
983		1171.9509	is more of a figurehead,	1173.6764
985		1173.7883	uh, type of a situation,	1175.4824
987		1175.9039	and we found that out quickly.	1177.7382
989		1178.1589	Uh, we were deluded to think that,	1180.1965
991		1180.4092	uh, this guy could do something	1182.2908
993		1182.6603	just for, uh, black folks	1184.3197
995		1184.8161	and, uh, not things for the country. And so	1187.8795
997		1188.4381	the, uh, climate that you see today	1191.1139
999		1191.5535	was based upon how	1193.0947
1001		1193.3386	the dominant society hated,	1195.1256
1003		1195.4896	uh, this guy	1196.7424
1005		1197.0316	that was in the office.	1198.2607
1007		1198.6484	And so,	1199.2866
1009		1199.7357	there was an uptick,	1200.9601
1011		1201.3005	a little bit more police brutality,	1203.3995
1013		1203.8258	uh, a little bit more, uh, racism,	1206.3455
1015		1206.9081	uh,	1207.4612
1017		1207.9245	individualize, but, uh,	1209.7210
1019		1210.3458	uh, the- the structured racism	1213.2343
1021		1213.4139	is still the same. It's not anything	1215.2671
1023		1215.6320	that's gonna be dismantled.	1217.0408
1025		1217.4142	Uh, white privilege was	1219.1067
1027		1219.3430	basically,	1220.2507
1029		1220.7755	um,	1221.6548
1031		1222.7014	<ts> somewhat danced around in folk's face	1225.0920
1033		1225.3950	while he was the president.	1226.4918
1035		1226.5925	So he was the president for eight years.	1228.3430
1037		1228.7401	Uh, not a l-	1229.6715
1039		1229.8141	not a l- lot happened	1231.4309
1041		1231.7098	socially,	1232.6175
1043		1232.9910	uh,	1233.6717
1045		1233.8136	uh, for the country.	1235.2554
1047		1235.8708	Uh,	1236.8778
1049		1237.4813	healthcare a- improved,	1239.5394
1051		1239.9932	uh,	1240.5274
1053		1240.6720	most certainly he took us out of, uh,	1242.7805
1055		1243.1539	the recession,	1244.0569
1057		1244.4662	uh, all of the things that	1246.0736
1059		1247.3642	in my opinion should make someone take a look and say,	1249.9462
1061		1250.2771	this a pretty good legacy, you know.	1252.1965
1063		1252.7874	Um,	1253.3878
1065		1254.1261	but what's gonna happen in terms of us as a people, we're gonna have to realize	1258.7591
1067		1259.3642	that	1259.7802
1069		1260.0316	collectively,	1261.1378
1071		1261.2891	uh, as a group,	1262.3764
1073		1262.8019	we have to make strides, and that	1264.8111
1075		1265.2015	we cannot depend on the federal government because	1268.6384
1077		1269.0032	the federal government only comes	1270.8402
1079		1271.1495	to our aid	1271.9673
1081		1272.4637	when there's a crisis.	1273.6834
1083		1274.3339	And, uh, you literally have to tear up something in this country	1278.0449
1085		1278.4665	in order to get people to see,	1280.3764
1087		1280.8302	uh, that it's a crisis.	1282.1398
1089		1282.6342	White folks have this dissonance about them	1285.0389
1091		1285.1417	that,	1285.6361
1093		1286.1576	uh, they wanna sleep good at night	1288.3133
1095		1288.4323	and don't feel any guilt or anything else like that. So,	1291.4484
1097		1292.0205	uh, they'll deny,	1293.5569
1099		1293.9757	uh, the history	1295.5074
1101		1295.8809	that it was brutal for blacks,	1297.4835
1103		1297.9240	that, uh, they gained a lot of wealth,	1300.2546
1105		1300.6281	uh, uh, basically up off of blacks.	1303.4787
1107		1303.8956	They even taking, um,	1305.2447
1109		1306.3177	<ts>	1306.3753
1111		1306.5146	uh, books today and maybe you could	1308.0651
1113		1308.1370	be able to do something about that.	1309.6868
1115		1310.0786	But the Texas repositories where	1312.1114
1117		1312.4565	they have all the classroom books and stuff like that,	1314.8419
1119		1315.1918	uh, I read where	1316.6573
1121		1316.9701	they're saying that, uh,	1318.4404
1123		1318.8138	they're changing the language that there was slavery, chattel slavery to	1322.1609
1125		1322.3736	forced immigration.	1323.3900
1126	ROC_int_01	1323.5138	Mm-hm.	1323.9609
1127	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1323.9487	And so when you- when you have language like this here that denies what has happened,	1327.9907
1128		1328.4020	uh, to a people,	1329.8778
1130		1330.3884	and, uh, expect that that-	1332.0241
1132		1332.2734	to be alright just so you can breathe	1334.3122
1134		1334.6506	and feel comfortable about yourself, then	1336.6267
1136		1337.2507	it means that we haven't really made the strives that was-	1339.8387
1138		1339.9403	wa- was-	1340.5182
1140		1340.6128	we supposed to have maken.	1341.7568
1142		1342.1492	But getting back to the president, um,	1344.1678
1144		1344.7738	was he a good president for the United States? I think so, but	1347.7379
1146		1348.0972	blacks really didn't get anything out of, uh, that, uh,	1351.2938
1148		1351.8753	uh, but we hope that the way it's paved, uh, for later that,	1355.6336
1150		1356.5185	you know,	1357.0271
1152		1357.1264	uh,	1357.5822
1154		1357.8408	they take the skills of leadership	1359.5852
1156		1359.9634	for what they originally was,	1361.5243
1158		1361.7513	which was a community organizer,	1363.6233
1160		1363.9401	and organize people around issues,	1365.9209
1162		1366.2196	you understand, so	1367.1982
1164		1367.5243	we can finally have our say and reach our destiny.	1369.8172
1165	ROC_int_01	1370.0299	Mm.	1370.3710
1167		1371.0302	Okay, um,	1372.1033
1169		1372.2782	and moving I guess from bigger to smaller, what about on a local level in terms of	1376.5310
1171		1376.8430	we've had leadership from people like Mayor Bill Johnson, and now we have Mayor Lovely Warren.	1381.4456
1173		1381.7983	Do you think that, um,	1383.3158
1175		1384.1270	I guess some of the work that they're doing,	1385.9068
1177		1386.0306	or,	1386.4387
1179		1386.6481	Mayor Lovely Warren (laughing), some of the work that she's doing is also improving on the	1390.7307
1181		1390.9860	circumstances, or?	1392.3786
1182	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1392.5949	Well, w- w- once again, uh,	1394.7660
1184		1395.1328	<clears throat>	1395.7001
1186		1397.6392	as blacks we've always had to put-	1399.3269
1188		1400.2724	uh, we put most of our eggs in, uh, politics.	1402.9860
1190		1403.8633	And	1404.3436
1192		1404.4712	this is what tends to happen	1406.2109
1194		1406.2960	is that	1406.8775
1196		1407.3564	Lincoln frees the slaves, so we- we- we vote	1409.6965
1198		1410.1455	Republican for a hundred years.	1411.8191
1200		1412.3542	Uh, the Voting Rights Act happen, so we vote Democrat for the	1415.6923
1202		1415.8105	past fifty, sixty years.	1417.2944
1204		1417.9028	Uh, most of the urban, uh, communities	1420.4510
1206		1420.7535	are democratically r-	1421.8077
1208		1422.0355	uh, run.	1422.7021
1210		1423.3119	And so, um,	1424.6214
1212		1425.2575	<ts>	1425.3151
1214		1425.4818	for Lovely to, uh, come in and become mayor,	1428.2313
1216		1428.6520	uh, she took the track of going in	1431.1698
1218		1431.2974	and being on City Council first	1433.0513
1220		1433.5202	and becoming President of City Council.	1435.7610
1222		1436.1109	So, a lot of the, um,	1438.1248
1224		1438.8036	projects that,	1439.8862
1226		1440.0091	uh, the dominant society in Rochester wanted to put forth,	1443.4109
1228		1443.9829	uh, in terms of how the	1445.0608
1230		1445.1798	downtown was gonna be designed,	1446.8675
1232		1447.1890	how, uh, new housing was gonna come in for,	1449.6709
1234		1450.0538	uh, folks so,	1451.2073
1236		1451.5249	uh, we- we can get more people to come back into the city,	1454.9571
1238		1455.3022	and become residents increase the tax base and stuff like that.	1458.5575
1240		1458.8364	A lot of that was done on her watch	1460.5761
1242		1460.9268	when she was, uh,	1462.1232
1244		1462.2166	President of City Council.	1463.6214
1246		1464.1145	Uh, city council's the one that has to make the, uh, policies,	1467.3433
1248		1467.7082	approve, uh, land acquisitions, all the tax things like that.	1471.2727
1250		1471.8400	And so, uh, people was really shocked when she says she wants to run for mayor.	1475.8564
1252		1476.7696	Uh, they were told	1477.9184
1254		1478.1690	it's not your time.	1479.1712
1256		1479.9418	And, uh,	1480.9535
1258		1481.1142	you know,	1481.7051
1260		1481.8044	I think most blacks applaud her	1483.8447
1262		1484.2276	for taking the initiative to say,	1486.1092
1264		1486.3558	well, it is my time.	1487.4763
1266		1487.9821	So I think, uh,	1489.6036
1268		1489.9440	the, um,	1491.2393
1270		1491.6860	<ts>	1491.7467
1272		1491.8216	community of Rochester, especially black folks,	1493.9975
1274		1494.0967	are still excited about m-	1495.4370
1276		1495.5753	Mayor Lovely Warren.	1496.5680
1278		1497.0956	Even though we haven't seen all	1499.2276
1280		1499.6957	that	1500.1416
1282		1500.2197	is supposed to happen in terms	1502.4309
1284		1502.7694	of the neighborhoods that we're left in crumbling.	1505.1804
1286		1505.9462	Um,	1506.4757
1288		1506.6609	so, she gets a pass.	1508.1690
1290		1508.6512	Uh, hopefully she can get reelected	1510.9298
1292		1511.4640	and more, uh, African Americans can come out with ideas for development and stuff	1516.7360
1294		1517.0811	and possibly get it passed through	1518.8586
1296		1519.2566	up under her- um,	1520.7363
1298		1521.3414	up u-	1521.6770
1300		1521.8011	up under her leadership and her being the m-	1523.8139
1302		1524.3622	her being the mayor.	1525.4165
1304		1525.9610	Um,	1526.5424
1306		1526.8214	you know, Bill Johnson, he sort of paved a way for her.	1529.5397
1308		1530.0833	And, um,	1531.0666
1310		1531.1951	I heard that, uh,	1532.4148
1312		1533.0625	uh,	1533.8992
1314		1534.0836	folks such as himself and a lot of other folks, uh,	1536.8397
1316		1537.2849	she- she has a tendency, uh, to listen to.	1539.9465
1318		1540.5138	Uh, but once again,	1542.0877
1320		1542.1645	uh,	1542.7404
1322		1543.2382	she has the-	1544.5146
1324		1544.7897	the-	1545.3806
1326		1545.4799	the Barack Obama,	1546.7705
1328		1547.1439	uh, f-	1547.8625
1330		1548.3920	/phenom in-/ right here in Rochester, to whereas that	1551.3400
1332		1551.7607	if there's appearance	1553.0844
1334		1553.5107	that you're trying to do everything, uh,	1555.8556
1336		1556.3992	to help, uh, blacks,	1558.2619
1338		1558.6192	and it doesn't perceive that, uh,	1560.5669
1340		1561.0349	white folks, especially business leaders, can get any,	1563.8581
1342		1564.3072	um,	1564.8272
1344		1565.3483	<ts>	1565.4450
1346		1565.5552	uh, uh, justice in terms of, uh, the grab back that they're supposed to get,	1570.6476
1348		1571.1770	well, she's got a tough	1572.5385
1350		1572.7732	balancing act to do that, and	1574.8597
1352		1575.2151	you possibly can see that in, um,	1577.3945
1354		1578.8506	the, uh,	1579.8812
1356		1580.1515	th- uh, the billion dollar effort to, uh, renovate the schools and stuff like that and the boards	1585.0775
1358		1585.3989	of where the money's supposed to go and,	1587.3711
1360		1587.4578	uh, what have you.	1588.5719
1362		1588.8920	It was supposed to increase jobs for African Americans. That didn't happen up under her watch.	1593.3414
1364		1593.8094	There's a lot of criticism about that, but	1595.8422
1366		1596.4785	I believe that black people have to understand	1599.0550
1368		1599.4879	that when blacks get into office,	1601.5728
1370		1601.9368	it doesn't mean that we're gonna make it, because politics doesn't make it for us.	1605.8019
1372		1606.2755	Politics	1606.9657
1374		1607.1406	d-	1607.3628
1376		1607.5330	does start	1608.4785
1378		1608.7054	the effort,	1609.4476
1380		1609.8825	uh, for power	1610.9368
1382		1611.6893	to where you can get inside information,	1613.9585
1384		1614.3981	or you can develop things, possibly open up some businesses,	1617.5041
1386		1617.7365	have an insight on,	1619.2919
1388		1619.6512	uh, some of the things that you possibly need in order to-	1622.7902
1390		1622.9557	to make these things happen.	1624.2037
1392		1624.6442	But it doesn't mean that there's a	1626.4170
1394		1626.7621	symbolic	1627.4523
1396		1627.8164	cupboard	1628.3127
1398		1628.8895	that you can open up	1629.9768
1400		1630.2991	and then that-	1630.9468
1402		1631.1973	that there's a grab back for everyone and so	1633.3672
1404		1633.7596	that's what I think that the African American, uh, community, the black community has to guard itself against that.	1639.0363
1406		1639.5043	Uh, someone is gonna be a savior for us.	1642.0241
1407	ROC_int_01	1643.4763	Um,	1644.1665
1409		1644.3981	we talked a little bit about like, racism in this country, but, uh, I wanted to ask more specifically in Rochester,	1650.7310
1411		1651.1337	uh,	1651.6631
1413		1652.0461	the ways in which you think-	1653.2752
1415		1653.4738	or well, first of all, if you think, uh, African Americans have to deal with a lot of racism or discrimination,	1659.0313
1417		1659.2251	or had to, at some point,	1660.7691
1419		1660.9109	you know, uh, maybe in the fifties, sixties, seventies.	1663.7029
1421		1664.1378	Um, and in which ways do	1666.3266
1423		1666.5497	those-	1666.9279
1425		1667.3344	does it manifest?	1668.4312
1427		1668.8047	Um, so like, people will say okay, uh,	1671.5041
1429		1671.7196	for example, police brutality, right. That's an example of	1675.0477
1431		1675.4240	a ways in which we can see this racist system operating.	1678.6745
1433		1679.0764	Um,	1679.5066
1435		1679.7855	yeah.	1680.1306
1437		1680.5494	I don't know, does that question make sense?	1682.0196
1438	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1682.0716	Well,	1682.4120
1440		1682.6011	le- le- let me go back, once again, uh,	1685.2108
1442		1685.8469	I've been here for sixty-three years with my family, uh, I'm a fourth generation	1690.0647
1444		1690.1734	person	1690.6273
1446		1690.9109	here in the city of Rochester, so.	1692.5041
1448		1693.0155	Uh, I've gotten, uh,	1694.9868
1450		1695.2563	first hand accounts from, uh,	1697.1993
1452		1697.7288	uh, my parents and grandparents, uh, how the city of Rochester	1701.2563
1454		1701.4974	has been,	1702.1167
1456		1702.2301	uh, maybe since the twenties.	1704.0880
1458		1704.5352	But, uh, let me- let me say this here is that,	1707.2441
1460		1707.6932	uh,	1708.2585
1462		1709.1784	I'm gonna speak about the- uh, uh, the micro here but the macro is- is that,	1714.1990
1464		1714.9184	uh, after World War Two, uh, they passed the GI Bill.	1718.4877
1466		1719.0719	Uh, the GI Bill, uh, helped, uh, folks that went over to fight in the wars.	1723.7833
1468		1724.2466	Uh, when you came back, uh, you were able to get a loan for	1727.5566
1470		1727.7741	housing,	1728.4879
1472		1728.8709	possibly, GI Bill to go to school and everything else like that.	1732.3077
1474		1732.6915	Well,	1733.0366
1476		1733.2446	African Americans, uh, had it a little different.	1735.7880
1478		1736.2655	Uh, they can only buy housing in certain neighborhoods.	1739.1312
1480		1739.5708	Uh, that housing was redline.	1741.7880
1482		1742.2938	Uh, that housing also was, uh,	1744.8873
1484		1745.1615	crumbling down in neighborhoods.	1746.7742
1486		1747.1667	Uh, they couldn't basically use the bill to get into a lot of colleges	1750.9535
1488		1751.2153	because the admission wouldn't let them get in or anything else.	1753.9128
1490		1754.2910	And so what you	1755.1892
1492		1755.7101	tend to, uh, have	1757.4072
1494		1757.7807	is that	1758.3338
1496		1758.7593	your start	1759.6291
1498		1760.2106	for you and your family is not one to where	1762.8021
1500		1763.1898	in the next generation you could leave 'em a house,	1765.5677
1502		1765.9081	leave 'em some money,	1766.9852
1504		1767.0608	uh,	1767.6376
1506		1767.7250	you know, uh, basically to do s-	1769.6519
1508		1769.7343	those things. So	1770.4802
1510		1770.8694	that's the structural racism right there.	1773.0630
1512		1773.4742	Uh, that's the racism that is, uh,	1775.4078
1514		1775.4827	in, um,	1776.3454
1516		1776.7768	uh, the structures, whether it's, uh,	1778.6725
1518		1779.0752	uh,	1779.6850
1520		1780.2003	uh, redlining for, uh, insurance,	1783.2217
1522		1783.6325	um,	1784.3416
1524		1784.6639	making sure that, uh, a neighborhood is blackballed to where	1788.4459
1526		1788.7910	you can't get out of it or move,	1790.5071
1528		1790.8577	uh,	1791.5152
1530		1791.6094	uh, anywhere else and you're somewhat landlocked	1793.8656
1532		1794.3452	to where you basically can be.	1795.9156
1534		1796.4167	Uh, in terms of promotions,	1798.2604
1536		1798.7331	um,	1799.3619
1538		1799.4706	in terms of, uh,	1800.7660
1540		1801.2348	uh, uh, jobs,	1803.1873
1542		1803.6506	uh, in terms of, uh, uh,	1805.8536
1544		1806.3744	uh, corporate ladder and stuff like that,	1808.7523
1546		1809.0502	in the fifties and sixties,	1810.5913
1548		1810.8371	it was very, very hard here. Even though Kodak	1813.2774
1550		1813.7076	was a	1814.1945
1552		1814.2985	major employer,	1815.4425
1554		1815.8018	and a lot of blacks did very well	1817.6455
1556		1817.8157	being in there,	1818.6289
1558		1819.0126	uh, they didn't have the jobs,	1820.8327
1560		1821.2771	uh, that was compared to, uh, a lot of whites and stuff like that. Uh,	1825.6508
1562		1826.2134	their- their- their positions, um,	1828.3880
1564		1828.9790	didn't lend very much but, uh, through hard work and stuff like that	1832.8725
1566		1833.2156	the African American community,	1834.8513
1568		1834.9317	uh,	1835.3335
1570		1835.5983	some people became mobile and was able,	1837.6839
1572		1837.7737	uh,	1838.3505
1574		1838.5065	to- to move out.	1839.4804
1576		1839.9815	As I understood, Xerox years ago,	1842.1892
1578		1842.7053	uh, there was an organization called FIGHT.	1844.9745
1580		1845.4851	Uh,	1846.2320
1582		1846.7048	it was run by, uh,	1848.1608
1584		1848.6780	<ts> uh, Minister Franklin Florence, uh,	1851.0029
1586		1851.3102	as a y-	1852.1564
1588		1852.2509	a y-	1852.5488
1590		1852.7851	a young man.	1853.6786
1592		1854.0048	It was on, uh, Prospect Street.	1855.9156
1594		1856.3694	We could go down there look in the window and see him negotiating,	1859.7070
1596		1860.1861	uh, with the powers that be, uh, in the city for,	1863.0710
1598		1863.4311	uh, better jobs, better housing,	1865.5916
1600		1865.9414	uh,	1866.5229
1602		1866.9484	uh,	1867.7331
1604		1867.8513	you know, basically for blacks.	1869.4067
1606		1869.8141	But in Rochester, Rochester's always been	1872.4047
1608		1872.7451	a tale of two cities.	1873.9175
1610		1874.2343	It was very rich because	1875.9118
1612		1876.2296	there was Xerox and there was Kodak	1878.1069
1614		1878.4615	and there was this	1879.6244
1616		1879.9884	enormous amount of wealth.	1881.8700
1618		1882.4759	Uh, but when you went to the third,	1885.6055
1620		1886.1823	uh, the seventh ward	1887.5107
1622		1887.9653	and, uh, some of these places here in the city of Rochester,	1890.7829
1624		1891.1989	uh,	1891.7426
1626		1892.0783	the same concentrated poverty,	1894.0449
1628		1894.4050	in the neighborhood that I grew up in,	1896.0123
1630		1896.1778	it's still the same, uh,	1897.7284
1632		1897.9884	where it is at there. So	1899.2081
1634		1899.7432	there's not a lot that has improved, uh, in terms of the infrastructure,	1903.9884
1636		1904.4423	uh, to where	1905.4729
1638		1905.8046	poor people are at.	1906.7879
1640		1907.3269	When they migrated up here, uh, in-	1909.4477
1642		1909.5293	in the South,	1910.2059
1644		1910.6550	and I seen a lot of folks, /??/	1912.2387
1646		1912.5185	uh, with the Great Migration in the fifties.	1914.5702
1648		1914.9011	When I was coming up as a little boy and stuff like that	1916.9907
1650		1917.2838	there was only two neighborhoods that you can grow up in.	1919.6152
1652		1919.9462	It was the seventh ward, where the riots broke out at,	1922.6125
1654		1922.9103	and the third ward, where the riots, uh, ended at.	1926.1920
1656		1926.7593	And so, that was, um,	1928.5510
1658		1929.2298	you know, the powder keg for that.	1930.8338
1660		1931.3997	Uh, we fast forward to this day and time,	1933.6366
1662		1934.0763	there's still that same type of dynamic	1936.8844
1664		1937.4139	that,	1937.7783
1666		1937.9339	uh, has a tendency to work here because people	1940.9131
1668		1941.2865	are still a little sick and tired of it, and,	1943.6361
1670		1944.3027	uh, th- things don't get any better. Uh,	1947.1636
1672		1947.7356	police treat young people always, uh, with disdain, if, uh,	1951.8939
1674		1952.4470	uh, they're black, uh, you get harassed and stuff like that. So,	1955.9225
1676		1956.4095	you know, racism is always alive and well.	1959.2128
1678		1959.7092	And,	1960.1536
1680		1960.3435	when young people don't see it getting any better,	1962.9218
1682		1963.8182	uh, you know, then they strike out.	1965.6998
1684		1965.8472	And, uh,	1966.7359
1686		1968.0785	you know, Black Lives Matter and some of the other organizing things that,	1971.6289
1688		1972.1166	um,	1972.6650
1690		1972.9250	is causing them to,	1974.3716
1692		1974.8727	uh, become, uh, woke,	1977.2270
1694		1977.8141	um,	1978.4334
1696		1979.1378	very, very easy for these things right now to manifest themselves. And I think,	1983.2885
1698		1983.6864	uh, it's their time now	1985.4403
1700		1985.8185	uh, for the equality.	1987.0240
1701	ROC_int_01	1987.9128	Yeah,	1988.2721
1703		1988.4261	have you heard of the organization BLACK here?	1990.8419
1704	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1990.8750	Yes.	1991.3619
1705	ROC_int_01	1991.4423	Yeah, and what do you think of the work that they're doing within the community?	1995.0454
1706	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	1995.1636	I- I think-	1995.8255
1708		1995.9767	I think the work of BLACK is, uh, pretty good. I know a f- few of the folks that are in there. Um,	2001.1987
1710		2002.1970	uh, but w- one thing that,	2004.2534
1712		2004.4270	uh, they may miss, uh,	2006.7685
1714		2007.0407	the mark on as, uh,	2008.7804
1716		2009.4659	uh, young people so often do,	2012.3221
1718		2013.0738	uh, they sort of organize around,	2015.9434
1720		2016.7297	<ts>	2016.8495
1722		2017.1450	you know, what is fad-ish,	2018.6578
1724		2019.4473	and not so much around the issues in terms of really understanding them.	2024.9462
1726		2025.5749	Uh,	2026.2226
1728		2026.5866	they're more so of a reaction,	2029.0118
1730		2029.4145	you understand,	2030.2890
1732		2030.8800	to the, uh,	2031.9578
1734		2032.3739	injustices and inequalities of the dominant society.	2035.6981
1736		2036.3127	Uh, but there's not a whole lot of organizing	2038.9412
1738		2039.2153	that you might have seen in the sixties,	2041.0402
1740		2041.4334	uh, w- w- with the Black Power movements. The Black Power movements	2045.3619
1742		2045.7023	were more about self help	2047.1725
1744		2047.5752	more than anything else.	2048.8516
1746		2049.3291	Uh, initially these groups are	2051.9812
1748		2052.2913	a little bit more of a protest,	2054.5611
1750		2055.0880	uh, more so than organizing and trying to	2058.2223
1752		2058.7006	take, um,	2059.6461
1754		2060.1567	the black intellect and form an intelligentsia to, uh,	2063.7070
1756		2063.9859	lead the movement.	2064.8085
1757	ROC_int_01	2065.3010	Mm,	2065.5516
1759		2065.9014	okay.	2066.2938
1761		2067.0454	Um,	2067.6789
1763		2067.9894	<ts>	2068.0631
1765		2068.2746	I wanted to ask a question, you mentioned a while back that, um, you're fourth generation here.	2073.5154
1766	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2073.6147	Mm-hm.	2073.8983
1767	ROC_int_01	2073.9512	Um, but your grandparents I'm assuming,	2075.9923
1769		2076.1293	were they born here, or	2077.3455
1770	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2077.6953	[No], they weren't born here. Uh, [my-]	2079.6470
1771	ROC_int_01	2077.6953	[/they-/]	2077.8436
1773		2079.3953	[/?/]	2079.6679
1774	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2079.7392	my	2080.0874
1776		2080.3833	m-	2080.4590
1778		2080.6291	my grandmother on my-	2081.6843
1780		2081.9793	on my father's side, I know more about that	2084.0641
1782		2084.4234	side than my mother's side.	2085.6194
1784		2086.2774	But my grandmother came from, uh, Bradford, Pennsylvania,	2089.5630
1786		2090.1586	uh, in nineteen twelve and she settled here and she married, uh, my grandfather. He was from North Carolina.	2095.9959
1788		2096.7192	But, uh, we do have, uh,	2098.5913
1790		2099.3443	<ts>	2099.3913
1792		2099.4895	an infamous, uh,	2100.8511
1794		2101.5421	great-grandfather who fought in the Civil War.	2103.8727
1796		2104.5960	And uh, he came	2106.4729
1798		2106.8519	to Rochester with my	2108.5396
1800		2108.8752	grandmother a little later on,	2110.9459
1802		2111.4754	when my grandfather had a	2113.1536
1804		2113.7123	terrible car accident. He was over road truck driving, he lost his eye in a	2117.9954
1806		2118.2318	accident, and so,	2119.5224
1808		2120.0716	uh, my great-grandfather came to help my grandmother raise her children here.	2124.2743
1810		2124.8708	And, uh, his name is /RD-NAME-2/. Uh,	2127.5655
1812		2128.0855	his discharge paper's in the Smithsonian. Uh,	2131.0827
1814		2131.4806	he fought, uh, in the Civil War	2133.6080
1816		2133.9957	and he died nineteen thirty-seven here in, uh, Rochester but, uh,	2137.4609
1818		2138.0716	he's- um,	2139.2818
1820		2140.2084	uh,	2141.2390
1822		2141.6550	he's in the R-	2142.2601
1824		2142.5162	Rochester public libraries, and he's part of Afro-Rochester.	2145.9673
1825	ROC_int_01	2147.2673	Cool.	2147.7401
1826	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2147.8961	Yeah.	2148.1892
1827	ROC_int_01	2148.2554	Okay.	2148.6903
1829		2149.0457	So, okay.	2150.5632
1831		2152.5596	Your grandmother came here and raised your-	2155.2403
1833		2155.3301	um,	2155.7887
1835		2156.3113	and your grand- great-grandfather came and helped her raise her [children, right?]	2159.4361
1836	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2159.0674	[Mm-hm.]	2159.4834
1837	ROC_int_01	2159.9334	Um,	2160.3919
1839		2160.7654	do you know maybe why they wanted to come to	2163.7106
1841		2163.8524	Rochester in the first place? Like what was-	2166.2596
1842	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2166.5385	Well, uh, along in this time, they- they felt as though- that there was opportunities up here.	2171.6914
1844		2172.1556	Uh, some of my mother's- uh,	2173.7487
1846		2173.9000	my grandmother's, uh, sisters,	2175.5783
1848		2176.1645	uh, they lived in, um,	2178.6898
1850		2179.6825	uh, Le Roy, and then some of 'em moved to, uh, Buffalo,	2183.0296
1852		2183.5315	uh, where- where there was a rural help where you could	2187.4128
1854		2187.9044	work like on farms and stuff like that. Uh,	2190.5432
1856		2191.4272	my grandmother came here and,	2193.3750
1858		2193.9801	you know, she was high school educated and everything else. Uh,	2196.9659
1860		2197.6656	my, uh, grandfather was over the road truck driver and there was a lot of, uh,	2201.7935
1862		2202.4270	um,	2203.2354
1864		2204.4464	uh, stuff to ship back and forth	2206.5596
1866		2206.9993	up here in upstate New York. Uh,	2209.0699
1868		2209.4150	more s-	2209.7459
1870		2209.8878	more so than there would be in the south.	2211.6425
1872		2212.1672	Uh, my grandmother also used to	2214.7721
1874		2215.4576	iron and do laundry for,	2217.5716
1876		2217.7370	uh, you know, rich lawyers and stuff like that that lived on Plymouth Avenue	2221.7176
1878		2222.0777	at that time. They grew up,	2223.2643
1880		2223.8127	they had a house there on, uh, /RD-ADDRESS-3/	2225.8077
1882		2226.3419	where, uh,	2227.0888
1884		2227.4225	most of us all grew up at or we gathered around.	2230.0935
1886		2230.5899	And so that was their, uh,	2232.3967
1888		2232.6330	entre here.	2233.5360
1890		2234.0371	Uh,	2234.5004
1892		2234.7320	<clears throat>	2234.9306
1894		2235.1244	my parents- um,	2236.3488
1896		2237.2756	<ts>	2237.3368
1898		2237.8152	my father, he grew up, he didn't take really good advantage of, uh,	2241.4270
1900		2242.0557	of, uh, all of his potential. So he-	2244.2671
1902		2244.3486	he always wound up being a laborer and stuff like that, but I had aunt-	2247.5438
1904		2247.6770	aunts and uncles that, uh,	2249.2087
1906		2249.9840	uh,	2250.5796
1908		2250.9342	you know, they tried	2251.9979
1910		2252.2721	to,	2252.7354
1912		2253.5390	uh, follow suit, go to school, and s-	2256.0866
1914		2256.1967	and- and things like that. I had a aunt, she was	2258.6645
1916		2259.3736	/possibly/ the first, uh,	2260.6481
1918		2260.8797	female, uh,	2262.4256
1920		2262.6959	police officer, uh, that made Sergeant,	2265.4473
1922		2266.1422	uh, here on the Rochester police department and,	2268.5958
1924		2269.0552	you know, she became a lawyer, a corporate lawyer for, uh, Kodak	2272.5535
1926		2272.9837	and things like that. So,	2274.2270
1928		2274.6052	you know, our family basically settled here and did alright. Uh,	2278.1800
1930		2278.6150	my brothers and sisters they're in pretty good shape, uh, also too, so.	2282.2654
1932		2282.9367	Uh,	2283.4331
1934		2284.2888	being up here,	2285.5605
1936		2285.7772	uh,	2286.3689
1938		2287.0855	we-	2287.4637
1940		2287.6102	we heard a lot of stories, especially my mother and them, they're from the South,	2291.3269
1942		2291.9225	of, um,	2292.9295
1944		2293.2037	you know, prejudice,	2294.3714
1946		2294.9008	uh,	2295.7754
1948		2296.0694	brutality and everything else.	2297.8800
1950		2298.3433	But up here, there was a lot of racism and things too, and, uh,	2302.4704
1952		2303.3316	/?/	2303.5963
1954		2303.7902	according to my father and everything else like that, you know, they were always	2307.5201
1956		2307.9228	the only blacks in the school or,	2309.8942
1958		2310.6033	uh, in a classroom and stuff like that. So,	2312.8205
1960		2313.2276	they sort of faced some things also too. Uh,	2315.5318
1962		2315.9809	they adjusted very well.	2317.3944
1964		2318.0941	Uh, as you know, black folks are resilient,	2320.3980
1966		2320.4973	so,	2321.0118
1968		2321.4387	uh, you make the best	2323.0176
1970		2323.5849	of the situation that you're in.	2325.1450
1971	ROC_int_01	2326.5443	Yeah.	2326.8658
1973		2327.4717	Um,	2328.0249
1975		2328.8853	so are- is most of your family still here? Or have they thought about moving?	2334.1430
1976	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2334.5685	No, all- all of my brothers and sisters are here except one. He's in- uh, my- my younger brother, he's in Tulsa, Oklahoma.	2340.5496
1978		2341.4053	Um,	2342.0766
1980		2342.8518	<ts>	2342.8871
1982		2343.9439	he- uh,	2344.9990
1984		2345.7318	he works for, um-	2347.5187
1986		2348.4226	<ts> Oh I gotta try to	2349.3199
1988		2349.8021	/think of the-/ He works for /RD-WORK-2/.	2351.4765
1990		2352.0627	He's an engineer at /RD-WORK-2/, so, uh,	2354.4075
1992		2354.7810	it's a German company and stuff like that. He has to go to Germany s- sometimes also too.	2359.1453
1994		2359.7220	But, uh, you know, he's well adjusted out there. He's, uh,	2362.5774
1996		2362.9470	at the headquarters out there in Tulsa,	2364.8380
1998		2365.0933	Oklahoma.	2365.7788
2000		2366.4595	Uh, my oldest sister retired from, uh,	2369.2629
2002		2370.1639	uh, the /RD-WORK-9/ where she worked at the hospital, uh,	2373.8900
2004		2374.1500	she had gotten her doctorate.	2375.4311
2006		2376.0835	Uh, my other sister next-	2378.0037
2008		2378.0983	next to me had worked for /RD-WORK-2/ for so many years.	2381.0388
2010		2381.5763	And I have a older brother, uh, believe it or not,	2384.8958
2012		2385.5766	uh, he's one of the top ski instructors in New York State here, so.	2389.5343
2014		2390.1725	Uh,	2390.7256
2016		2390.9431	family is sort of	2391.9595
2018		2392.1675	rounded out	2392.9239
2020		2393.1366	pretty well and, uh,	2394.4272
2022		2395.3925	you know, I guess we can attribute most of that to our parents.	2398.2242
2023	ROC_int_01	2398.5126	Mm-hm.	2398.9996
2024	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2399.0232	Yeah.	2399.3683
2025	ROC_int_01	2399.7323	Yeah,	2400.1436
2027		2400.2957	and for you, [you-] you wanna stay put here for,	2403.4017
2028	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2401.3263	[Yeah.]	2401.5863
2029	ROC_int_01	2403.9075	you know,	2404.5702
2031		2404.6923	I don't know, the next few decades or are you thinking [maybe] retire [somewhere] else?	2409.3294
2032	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2407.5802	[Well],	2407.8875
2034		2408.3933	[I d- I-]	2408.8803
2035		2409.3955	I-	2409.6461
2037		2409.8777	it all depends. I- I-	2411.3630
2039		2411.5663	I never know where I'm going but, uh,	2413.6464
2041		2414.5068	uh,	2415.3577
2043		2415.5421	you know, uh,	2416.6444
2045		2416.7437	what I try to do maybe the last ten, twelve years, is put an emphasis on supporting my wife, /RD-NAME-3/.	2422.6909
2047		2423.3110	And, uh, she went and got all of her education and, uh, she's got career goals and stuff like that, so	2429.2610
2049		2429.7810	you never know, we might have to pack this stuff up and go somewhere. But, uh,	2433.4172
2051		2433.7718	she has a passion for community colleges and, uh,	2436.9108
2053		2437.6066	you know, she would like to be a president of one one day, so we- we- we'll have to see what happens. And, uh,	2443.1519
2055		2444.0037	uh, certainly, uh,	2445.6347
2057		2446.5329	I guess I'm prepared to travel with them if, uh, they decide that they wanna do that.	2450.2968
2058	ROC_int_01	2450.5474	Mm-hm.	2451.1761
2060		2452.0554	Um,	2452.6889
2062		2452.8449	there was one more question I wanted to ask about	2455.4136
2064		2455.4809	Rochester in general	2456.7999
2066		2456.8803	and that is, uh, m- what are your favorite aspects of Rochester?	2461.0338
2067	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2461.9801	Well,	2462.3110
2069		2462.4670	<clears throat>	2462.8972
2071		2463.2140	all that I've told you, uh, about Rochester and it's challenges and stuff like that, I-	2468.6419
2073		2469.0769	I believe that it's, uh,	2470.3769
2075		2470.8733	still a great city.	2472.0457
2077		2472.7548	Uh, historically, uh, it may be something in the water, what have you, but,	2478.2301
2079		2478.8399	uh, the Nineteenth Century Freedom Movement, uh,	2482.2776
2081		2483.0151	is basically an international movement that was started here with Frederick Douglass and Susan B. Anthony.	2488.2020
2083		2488.6322	And then there's other	2489.4631
2085		2489.5340	folks that have come along	2490.9439
2087		2491.3892	to, uh, make this, uh, an industrial giant, uh, George Eastman,	2496.1592
2089		2496.6366	uh, Joseph Wilson, everyone. So	2498.6277
2091		2499.0012	there's something about Rochester that, um,	2501.5021
2093		2502.5686	<ts>	2502.6086
2095		2502.9250	uh, it has,	2504.1494
2097		2504.3677	uh, a very, very rich history	2506.4289
2099		2507.0009	and a resilience for working together. And,	2509.9509
2101		2510.3252	uh,	2511.3652
2103		2511.5874	my understanding of studying history,	2513.4217
2105		2513.8046	Frederick Douglass came here because, uh,	2516.2448
2107		2516.5852	the people had tolerance.	2517.9893
2109		2518.6086	And so, uh,	2519.7810
2111		2519.9039	you know, if we can find those things again, I'm quite sure that	2523.3719
2113		2523.8163	there's other folks that are being born right now, or	2526.5922
2115		2526.9656	have yet- we've yet to hear their voice, that are gonna do something similar.	2530.8563
2117		2531.5379	And so, uh,	2532.4787
2119		2532.7813	once again it could be, uh, something in the Genesee River or what-	2536.5632
2121		2536.9868	whatever, the Hemlock Lake or what have you, but,	2539.2039
2123		2539.8052	uh, very brilliant people come out of, uh, Rochester,	2543.1049
2125		2543.5446	uh, very decent and hardworking people of all, uh,	2546.9114
2127		2547.2376	races and creeds.	2548.5518
2129		2549.0293	Um,	2549.5493
2131		2549.6439	I've- I've always been excited of, um,	2552.2487
2133		2553.0485	you know, a lot of the African American accomplishments that, uh, have happened in the city,	2557.5963
2135		2557.9659	and how, uh, we should uplift those things, and, uh,	2561.2137
2137		2561.7242	make them, uh, /sancrosant/.	2563.7476
2139		2563.9848	Uh,	2564.6041
2141		2565.0579	to-	2565.4645
2143		2565.8191	that they have a value for us and that we don't forget it.	2568.3435
2145		2568.8872	And, uh, certainly, uh,	2570.9587
2147		2571.2518	persons such as yourself, you make us proud because	2574.0977
2149		2574.4901	you're going further than what, uh, we could ever imagine or dream of.	2578.2856
2150	ROC_int_01	2579.5635	Yeah,	2579.8283
2152		2580.2112	thank you.	2580.7312
2154		2580.9014	[<laugh>]	2581.4592
2155	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2581.0460	[Mm-hm.]	2581.4384
2156	ROC_int_01	2581.9442	Um,	2582.5919
2158		2582.7148	and then my last couple questions are more so language related.	2585.9870
2160		2586.4692	Um,	2586.9373
2162		2587.4667	and that is whether or not,	2589.0599
2164		2589.1781	uh,	2589.6839
2166		2590.1595	maybe you've perceived,	2592.0457
2168		2592.2348	uh, certain Rochesterians to have an accent?	2594.9114
2170		2595.2376	Or maybe you've been told by	2597.3460
2172		2597.4843	people who are not from here	2599.1405
2174		2599.4289	that you have an accent?	2600.6675
2175	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2601.7737	Well, wo- once again, uh, in the fifties and sixties, people came here from the South	2606.6061
2177		2607.2064	and so,	2607.9014
2179		2608.1575	we heard a lot of southern accents.	2610.2849
2181		2610.9467	And, uh, we were made fun of just based upon how we,	2615.5568
2183		2616.5922	um, had names for certain things.	2619.3577
2185		2619.8588	In the South when you came up here, uh, you wanted a soft drink, they call it a soda.	2624.6656
2187		2625.2112	We call it pop up here.	2626.6483
2189		2627.4197	And so, um,	2628.5260
2191		2628.9373	uh,	2629.9017
2193		2632.0224	folks from the South would think that,	2633.7006
2195		2634.8494	uh, we're somewhat proper	2636.6277
2197		2637.1572	in-	2637.5886
2199		2637.7210	in-	2638.0519
2201		2638.2457	in o-	2638.6074
2203		2638.8343	in our- uh,	2640.2159
2205		2641.2465	you know,	2641.7949
2207		2642.7318	our speech, or,	2644.0365
2209		2645.9086	you know, to the degree that, um,	2647.7192
2211		2648.4954	we grew up	2649.2518
2213		2649.3889	not so much,	2650.8024
2215		2651.0057	uh, in close proximity,	2652.9818
2217		2653.4317	uh, with each other in the fifties and sixties. Now,	2656.7126
2219		2657.4349	<ts>	2657.4725
2221		2657.5210	uh, there's a mixture	2659.1709
2223		2659.5310	of- uh,	2660.4387
2225		2661.1478	of, uh, all of that language and- and-	2663.5549
2227		2663.6471	and how it has gotten passed down.	2665.7429
2229		2666.2401	When you- when you mix it-	2667.4929
2231		2667.8947	when you mix it up you get a hodgepodge	2670.2159
2233		2670.7123	of,	2671.1425
2235		2671.6669	uh, southern dialect	2673.2979
2237		2674.3392	<ts>	2674.3840
2239		2674.4854	and, uh, northern dialect.	2676.1258
2241		2676.7829	Uh, the dialect of New York City's much different from borough to borough.	2680.6083
2243		2681.3079	You know, uh, that dynamic is based upon,	2684.4848
2245		2684.9064	uh,	2685.6911
2247		2685.8093	i-	2685.9559
2249		2686.2584	is a-	2686.7501
2251		2687.8658	the linguist, uh,	2689.3786
2253		2689.8229	somewhat comes and melts together.	2691.6060
2255		2691.9133	You get Irish, Italian,	2693.5679
2257		2693.8374	African American. And so everyone	2695.9742
2259		2696.2531	has a-	2697.0285
2261		2697.5351	um,	2698.1166
2263		2698.6035	uh, an accent,	2699.8658
2265		2700.3338	you know, that's similar	2701.5677
2267		2701.8986	or the same, you know, and, I mean,	2703.5282
2269		2703.5932	that's the way that,	2704.6855
2271		2704.8131	uh,	2705.1964
2273		2705.7604	uh, environments, uh, basically do to where	2709.0988
2275		2709.3825	you would never hear that anywhere else.	2711.2545
2277		2711.7367	Uh, you would go to Boston and possibly just	2714.0532
2279		2714.5504	basically hear,	2715.7607
2281		2716.1956	uh, a very strong Irish accent	2718.7011
2283		2719.0368	out of everyone that's in the region. So,	2721.5621
2285		2722.1956	uh, I don't think Rochester ever had anything in terms of an accent,	2726.1336
2287		2726.2904	uh, for, uh, blacks. But	2728.4792
2289		2729.1033	one thing that blacks prided themselves on when I was coming up, my-	2733.7512
2291		2734.1341	my parents and grandparents and everything,	2735.8360
2293		2736.1244	is that you had to try to s- speak as proper as possible, you know. I mean, you couldn't	2739.9356
2295		2740.2240	shortcut things or anything else like that. They were afraid that there was some,	2743.7601
2297		2744.3188	uh, big white person in the sky or somewhere that was gonna look at you and say that, you know,	2748.9659
2299		2749.4245	uh, you're-	2750.6072
2301		2750.7963	you're- you're an ignorant so-and-so, so,	2752.9567
2303		2753.6044	um,	2754.2568
2305		2754.6681	you know, we were always encouraged to read the newspaper and stuff like that.	2758.0018
2307		2758.5171	And so, um,	2759.6847
2309		2760.8559	<ts>	2760.9053
2311		2761.3299	our dialect	2762.3802
2313		2762.4826	was n-	2762.8230
2315		2763.0752	was- was nothing that we could ever hone in on.	2765.9448
2317		2766.6208	Uh,	2767.3299
2319		2767.6002	we had to try to	2768.7490
2321		2769.4865	s- so- sort of master, uh, our intellect and, uh, how we articulated a thing.	2774.5599
2323		2775.1603	But, uh, as people were coming up from the South, migrating and stuff like that,	2779.0604
2325		2779.5143	um,	2780.3188
2327		2782.1909	you live in cl-	2782.8291
2329		2783.0093	close proximity, then you find yourself	2785.4339
2331		2785.8224	somewhat almost with that accent, or	2788.3327
2333		2788.6447	at least some of the dialect.	2789.9731
2335		2790.5782	And we ha- w- we had folks that	2792.4795
2337		2792.7395	if they come from Louisiana,	2794.2665
2339		2794.6447	they come from South Carolina where	2796.3750
2341		2796.7059	folks were Geechee and stuff like that, they come up.	2799.2123
2343		2799.6519	Uh,	2800.2192
2345		2800.6400	it sort of gets passed down, but,	2802.5404
2347		2803.1313	you know.	2803.5426
2349		2803.8886	I mean, that's- that's- that's the way that it is, and the m-	2806.4556
2351		2806.7629	more that	2807.4105
2353		2807.7226	folks have to come together based upon circumstances,	2810.6686
2355		2811.1272	you see the linguist, uh,	2812.8102
2357		2813.2451	type of thing. It changes,	2814.6113
2359		2815.0273	um,	2815.5474
2361		2815.7940	after a few generations.	2817.2501
2362	ROC_int_01	2818.1247	Mm-hm.	2818.6305
2364		2818.9425	And so, black Americans	2820.7768
2366		2821.1172	don't really have the accent but do	2823.2690
2368		2823.5952	any white Americans you think have	2825.3916
2370		2825.9306	an accent,	2826.6822
2372		2826.9186	uh, that's kind of like	2828.0674
2374		2828.8199	Rochesterian to you?	2830.4887
2375	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2831.0371	Well,	2831.4247
2377		2831.8124	I think, uh,	2832.9092
2379		2834.7253	<sigh>	2835.4486
2381		2837.0040	w- when you- when you come to upstate New York	2839.6948
2383		2840.1675	once again,	2841.0574
2385		2841.1969	it's that, um,	2842.5927
2387		2843.9117	it all depends if-	2845.0502
2389		2845.1377	if you're coming to rural upstate New York,	2847.4854
2391		2847.7982	uh,	2848.3466
2393		2849.1739	it- there's sort of, uh,	2850.4834
2395		2850.6867	a farmer's	2851.8355
2397		2852.2846	type of, uh,	2853.2773
2399		2854.1197	uh,	2854.6964
2401		2855.1975	dialect, but, uh,	2856.7009
2403		2857.3911	certainly in Rochester, what, uh, this city has	2860.8004
2405		2861.0935	pushed	2861.5590
2407		2861.6654	is	2862.0437
2409		2862.6678	su- s- such of its intellectualism because of, uh,	2865.7785
2411		2866.1055	its universities, uh,	2867.6041
2413		2867.8074	and its industry and stuff like that.	2869.7882
2415		2870.1522	You really couldn't-	2870.9748
2417		2871.3104	I never really got a pitch,	2872.9564
2419		2873.6372	uh, to where I said,	2875.0980
2421		2875.7220	that sounds Rochesterian, you know.	2877.6650
2423		2878.2284	Uh,	2878.8241
2425		2879.4245	you know it just doesn't, but I've traveled a lot of places,	2882.3177
2427		2882.8282	and	2883.4003
2429		2884.1906	even in Pennsylvania, you get the strong Dutch	2886.9845
2431		2887.7125	type of, uh,	2888.7242
2433		2889.1592	accent and stuff like that, but up here, I- you just can't	2892.4361
2435		2893.2587	I c- I just could never tell.	2894.6250
2436	ROC_int_01	2894.6986	Mm-hm.	2895.1572
2437	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2895.1970	Uh,	2895.7359
2439		2895.9022	the- the- there may be-	2897.2401
2441		2897.4481	there may be that	2898.4019
2443		2898.5035	but,	2898.8521
2445		2899.5459	um,	2900.1841
2447		2900.7601	it's not something that, uh,	2902.3580
2449		2903.0813	uh,	2903.8897
2451		2905.1575	registered with me	2906.4245
2453		2906.8547	[in- in such] a way, you know.	2908.1973
2454	ROC_int_01	2906.9445	[Yeah.]	2907.3038
2455		2908.5471	Yeah,	2909.0009
2457		2909.2278	I ask because of- I get mixed reviews from people, sometimes they say, you know, it's kind of nasaly, we talk-	2915.5315
2459		2915.8282	you know, uh, feel like they talk through their nose or-	2918.8594
2460	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2919.0343	[Mm-hm]	2919.4881
2461	ROC_int_01	2919.3983	And] so I was just seeing if you had any perspective [about-]	2922.0382
2462	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2921.6797	[Yeah],	2922.0248
2463		2922.1828	yeah.	2922.5113
2464	ROC_int_01	2922.4760	Yeah.	2922.7467
2465	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	2923.1216	Um,	2923.6558
2467		2925.3057	you know, there might be a little-	2926.7579
2469		2926.8761	little something to that but	2928.3416
2471		2928.6252	w- one thing is is that	2930.3413
2473		2931.7274	<ts>	2931.8239
2475		2932.1661	for African Americans, uh,	2934.0993
2477		2934.1720	the- there wasn't that really mixing	2936.5871
2479		2936.8046	of, uh,	2937.5326
2481		2938.2331	uh, the races in the fifty and sixty, even though we were in the neighborhoods and stuff like that, there still wasn't that,	2943.5137
2483		2944.1149	you know.	2944.4884
2485		2944.9801	Folks sort of looked down	2946.2659
2487		2946.7387	each other, they sort of	2947.9442
2489		2948.8653	kept to themselves and stuff like that, and as whites moved out	2952.0457
2491		2952.6989	and blacks moved in,	2954.0226
2493		2954.8026	uh, you know, your folks would challenge you,	2957.3035
2495		2957.6195	I don't wanna s- ever hear you speaking like that.	2959.9990
2497		2960.8594	You know, so.	2961.8711
2499		2962.8355	Uh,	2963.4500
2501		2964.3585	but in terms of, uh,	2965.6728
2503		2966.3346	uh,	2967.1714
2505		2967.6914	the dominant society and, uh, their dialect or something like that,	2971.4998
2507		2971.7409	I just never picked that up.	2972.9748
2509		2974.5073	I just never,	2975.3157
2511		2975.4670	you know.	2975.8783
2513		2976.7056	So we	2977.3249
2515		2977.5802	sort of have to see that. I mean,	2979.0646
2517		2979.3766	I guess in your study of it there's-	2981.0683
2519		2981.5237	the- the- there may be some keys and some things to	2984.3555
2521		2984.6722	basically look at,	2985.7690
2523		2986.3466	uh, in- in order to,	2988.1808
2525		2988.7623	um,	2989.5093
2527		2989.9253	detect	2990.6959
2529		2991.3341	or, you know, become aware of. But, uh,	2994.0863
2531		2994.7860	I think	2995.2682
2533		2995.4667	people are like this here. As they	2997.5752
2535		2998.8193	go through their daily routines,	3000.7340
2537		3001.5471	uh, that's something that is so	3003.9912
2539		3004.8052	unconscious	3005.9492
2541		3007.0460	that,	3007.4384
2543		3008.2798	you know.	3008.7337
2545		3009.1072	I'm amazed that, uh,	3010.6444
2547		3010.8572	a lot of the	3011.5521
2549		3011.9965	actors and actress that, uh,	3013.8402
2551		3015.0031	you know, they're from England, when they come over here and they	3017.1219
2553		3017.3441	act in these movies and stuff like that, you	3019.7125
2555		3020.3271	never knew that they had the accent, you know.	3022.2748
2557		3022.5735	So, I mean,	3023.3015
2559		3023.5001	people sort of switch it up, but yeah.	3025.1783
2561		3025.9584	Uh,	3026.4264
2563		3027.2395	wherever you go	3028.3410
2565		3028.8572	you do pick up the accent.	3030.2612
2567		3030.6536	But there's- there was never one up here that	3032.9511
2569		3033.3246	I thought	3033.8541
2571		3034.1724	was picked up,	3034.9761
2573		3035.1014	you know.	3035.5410
2575		3036.0532	Downstate New York? Yes,	3037.7787
2577		3038.1617	without a doubt.	3039.0362
2579		3039.6035	You can go from borough to borough and it's much different.	3042.8238
2581		3043.4242	Queens they speak way different than the Bronx. The Bronx	3046.3079
2583		3046.8902	is a little bit more heavy	3048.2187
2585		3048.6394	laden and-	3049.4856
2587		3049.7173	and sort of longated, you know.	3051.4948
2589		3051.8691	Uh,	3052.5262
2591		3053.3204	Brooklyn has more of a-	3055.3296
2593		3056.5919	uh, you know, a rhythm to it and Manhattan, they're just-	3060.1572
2595		3060.7907	it's like their head is up in the clouds, you know.	3063.1489
2597		3063.2358	S- I don't know why it's like that	3064.7267
2599		3065.3838	but,	3065.7526
2601		3066.4286	you know, it's- it's just different.	3068.2874
2602	ROC_int_01	3069.0579	Mm-hm.	3069.5023
2603	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3069.5716	Automatically when friends come up	3071.5020
2605		3071.9653	or I know somebody, they say I'm from New York City, I say you from the Bronx.	3075.3416
2607		3076.1831	You almost can detect it, so	3078.1497
2609		3079.0960	it's- it's just not like that	3080.7317
2611		3080.9256	up here, and, um,	3082.5565
2613		3083.9667	<ts>	3084.0043
2615		3084.2348	I never noticed it in Buffalo either, so,	3086.6561
2617		3087.4740	you know.	3087.9136
2618	ROC_int_01	3088.5613	Okay.	3089.0246
2619	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3089.1144	Yeah	3089.4220
2620	ROC_int_01	3089.7951	Um,	3090.3246
2622		3090.5799	so those are all the questions I have, but if you have any,	3093.8230
2624		3093.9556	uh, last few comments you wanna say	3096.3530
2626		3096.7009	you know, you're welcome to share 'em, about Rochester,	3098.9167
2628		3099.0273	um, in general.	3099.8399
2629	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3100.8430	Well, once again, you know I- I like Rochester. Uh,	3103.9631
2631		3104.1097	<clears throat>	3104.8566
2633		3105.2490	I think we always have to have,	3106.7677
2635		3106.8954	uh, a place that,	3108.3226
2637		3109.0068	uh, we can say is home,	3110.5621
2639		3111.1444	you know, no matter where you go.	3112.8558
2641		3113.4656	Uh, /and then say/ well Rochester is home, you know.	3116.0279
2643		3116.6528	And, um,	3117.5699
2645		3117.9623	be fond of telling folks of, uh,	3120.2031
2647		3120.9028	uh, your childhood because, uh, it was a good childhood.	3124.0568
2649		3124.8510	So I think, uh, based upon	3127.5574
2651		3128.0760	who and what your family is, then that's what your town is.	3131.9005
2653		3132.7137	Uh, you might not like it so much if you didn't come from,	3135.8961
2655		3136.5343	uh,	3137.3474
2657		3138.4064	uh, the type of loving and caring,	3140.7323
2659		3141.2721	uh, family or environment.	3142.6808
2661		3143.1961	Uh, someone ask you about Rochester, I hate it.	3145.3519
2663		3146.1138	Because all of your	3147.1302
2665		3147.9245	circumstances and situation,	3149.9194
2667		3150.4631	uh, when you were young o- or whatever, it- it- it just brings up the pain about it. But	3154.8936
2669		3155.2245	I've got fond memories of coming up, uh,	3158.1745
2671		3158.9742	you know, playing, hanging out and,	3161.0496
2673		3161.5932	uh, exploring, uh,	3163.6450
2675		3164.0855	lot of places that we weren't supposed to go and things like that, when we were little we	3168.0376
2677		3168.3638	did it anyhow,	3169.4937
2679		3169.9058	uh, behind our parents' back, so.	3171.9434
2681		3172.4019	You know, it was a lot of adventure here in Rochester for me, so,	3175.2762
2683		3175.7395	you know,	3176.1555
2685		3176.5488	I'm sort of a proud Rochesterian.	3178.3310
2686	ROC_int_01	3178.9343	Yeah.	3179.1867
2687	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3179.1914	Yeah.	3179.5099
2688	ROC_int_01	3179.9147	Okay, [cool.]	3180.7846
2689	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3180.4726	[Mkay.]	3180.9548
2690	ROC_int_01	3181.2715	Um,	3181.8132
2692		3181.9834	I- I would like to ask at the end if you, uh, still consent to me	3185.9459
2694		3186.2957	using this interview?	3187.4587
2695	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3187.7801	Sure.	3188.2434
2696	ROC_int_01	3188.3311	Yeah, okay.	3188.9147
2697	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3189.0045	Yes,	3189.5057
2699		3189.6380	[without a doubt.]	3190.2620
2700	ROC_int_01	3189.7401	[Well],	3190.0561
2701		3190.5533	thank you,	3191.0462
2702	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3191.1052	[Okay, thank you.]	3191.8972
2703	ROC_int_01	3191.2021	[I appreciate] it.	3192.2469
2704	ROC_se0_ag3_m_01	3192.5840	I hope I've contributed.	3193.6583
2705	ROC_int_01	3193.7805	Yeah.	3194.1049