LineSpeakerSt TimeContentEn Time
1VLD_int_010.1721So now, gonna ask you just a1.8965
3 2.0625few questions. Um. [Can you] tell me a little bit about5.2437 
5VLD_int_015.5356kind of just your6.3524
7 8.7379like the very first10.0662 
9 10.2056home and neighborhood that you remember.11.9921 
10VLD_se0_ag4_m_0113.6384Mm. I could remember15.6706
12 16.0359my first home17.3924 
14 18.7292back in19.2794 
16 19.4099probably nineteen sixty.21.3497 
18 21.5222Three years old, and I can remember23.9656 
20 24.8295my brother was born in sixty-one. That's why I can remember.27.4731 
22 27.5617Nineteen Sixty. (laughing) Cause I can remember my mama was pregnant.30.6550 
24 31.1840And we lived on Dampier Street, which is uh, off of highway thirty-one.35.4424 
25VLD_int_0136.5877Where it- mm-mm.37.5529
27 37.7487<ts>37.8933 
29 37.9819[So where's] that?38.7046 
31 39.1010Near- going to the old airp- going to- toward airport.42.3930
32VLD_int_0142.3930By the airpo- okay.42.9725
34VLD_int_0144.0076Um, so tell me about the house. Was it a big house, little house?46.9370
35VLD_se0_ag4_m_0147.7996There was probably like48.9560
37 49.3524the traditional50.6347 
39 50.9704three m-51.6035 
41 51.9952what they called shotgun houses back then.54.8398 
43 55.3493About three rooms.56.3891 
45 56.6270[Mm-hm.]56.9300 
46VLD_int_0156.6270[About] three rooms, [and it's] you, your mom.58.8643
48 59.2233My brother,59.9694
50 60.0906and my dad.60.8549 
51VLD_int_0161.4382Said this is you- how many brothers do you have?63.5163
54 65.0550had65.3908 
56 65.5353t- two brothers,66.7290 
58 66.8409and one sister.67.7455 
59VLD_int_0167.9880Okay, so but this was- there was only69.3624
60VLD_se0_ag4_m_0169.6375There [was only.]70.3043
61VLD_int_0169.8707[two of y'all] at the [time.]70.9991
62VLD_se0_ag4_m_0170.7706[Right. Mm-hm.]71.5726
65VLD_int_0172.4073Are you the oldest, or second?73.4518
67VLD_int_0174.7562Oh, so you're the big brother.75.8007
69VLD_int_0176.2530And so then, you guys moved here. Was-78.1881
71 78.3094did you guys move to this place because it was bigger? Or.81.1992 
72VLD_se0_ag4_m_0181.8473Mm <ts>82.2996
74 82.4675No, I think it was just83.6472 
76 85.7875availability, I guess, would be the87.6935 
77VLD_int_0188.2157There you go.88.6670
78VLD_se0_ag4_m_0188.9664right word to say, at the time. (laughing)90.8316
80 91.1580And a-91.4005 
82 91.5357availability and affordability, [right, affordability.]94.0415 
83VLD_int_0193.0017[Affordability.] That's [probably the-]94.9414
85 95.1046[Yeah.]95.3704
86VLD_int_0195.1046[the- the]95.8460
88VLD_int_0195.9393the more appropriate word [there.]97.3521
90 97.4748Mm-hm.97.7998
93 99.1555And then, tell me about the neighborhood. Was it a good neighborhood?101.8087 
96 104.0796Yeah.104.5272 
98 104.6111Course, I mean,105.3327 
100 105.6451when I grew up in the s-107.2492 
102 107.6269sixties, I mean108.8485 
104 109.6366all neighborhoods was good because111.2954 
106 112.0508children were disciplined back then. [<laugh>]114.9558 
109 114.5781[It also] makes a [difference.]116.1308 
113 118.3166And so then,119.2725 
115 120.1631when you moved there, you were how old?121.7345 
116VLD_se0_ag4_m_01122.4806I was123.0017
118 123.1462f- I'll say three.124.7083 
121VLD_int_01125.5523And then, how long did y'all stay in that house?127.0630
122VLD_se0_ag4_m_01127.5666We stayed there probably129.4679
124 130.6616<ts>130.9134 
126 131.0533until I was about131.9346 
128 133.4920six maybe.135.1042 
129VLD_int_01135.5332And then where'd y'all go?136.2466
130VLD_se0_ag4_m_01137.2025We moved to138.4009
132 139.0257uh,139.5480 
134 140.3407Twin li-140.8618 
136 141.0949Twin Lakes.141.8923 
138 142.0928Cause we lived with my grandmother for a while.144.0046 
140 144.2330My mom.144.6620 
143 146.4759out by147.0017 
145 147.2301Clyattville?147.9855 
146VLD_se0_ag4_m_01148.0508Right. [Mm-hm.]148.8668
148VLD_se0_ag4_m_01149.0254No, out by149.9393
150 150.8905Twin Lakes is before you get to Lake Park.153.0809 
152 153.2721[On.]153.5006 
153VLD_int_01153.2721[The] other. Oh, I'm going the other [way. Okay.]154.8861
156 154.7875[Mm.]155.0673 
157VLD_int_01155.0567[So you was] that way.155.8087
159 155.9113Forty one south.156.8346
162VLD_int_01157.9350Um, and how long'd y'all stay there?159.3607
163VLD_se0_ag4_m_01160.2933We stayed there at her house probably about162.2657
165 162.5175<ts>162.6714 
167 162.8905s-163.8557 
169 164.1402I say eight.165.4913 
170VLD_int_01165.9855And then where'd y'all166.7129
172 167.0673move to?167.6502 
173VLD_se0_ag4_m_01167.8227We moved um,169.0024
175 169.2542um,169.9770 
177 171.8969<ts>172.0042 
179 172.8901/unintelligible/174.0745 
181 174.2330It's in Little Miami.175.3055 
183 175.4454Donald- Donald street.176.9662 
185 178.8385Donald Street is off of Statenville.180.7689 
187 181.0907You know Statenville Hi-182.1864 
189 182.3123Road [is?]183.0164 
191VLD_se0_ag4_m_01183.7019It's the street adjacent to Statenville Road. If you going down Statenville Road before you get to uh,188.7693
193 189.2873the interstate /??/, there's a little street to the right.191.8537 
195 192.4553It's called Donald Street.193.7702 
196VLD_int_01193.8355And why was that called Little Miami?195.2530
197VLD_se0_ag4_m_01195.9606Cause most of the196.8792
199 197.0471uh,197.3268 
201 197.4154people that198.0216 
203 198.1708lived in that neighborhood during the um,200.1852 
205 200.5675sixties, a lot of 'em201.8487 
207 202.5015<ts> went south when it was fruit season.205.0195 
209VLD_se0_ag4_m_01206.3197And, uh, they would go there207.6715
211 207.9513for the fruit season and um,209.3781 
213 209.4900pick fruits.210.3340 
215 210.8656So that's why it became the name Little Miami, because of a lot of213.7688 
217 214.5575[people would /?/-]215.2888 
218VLD_int_01214.8559[Was it a lot] of kids in the neighborhood?216.2408
219VLD_se0_ag4_m_01216.7117Yeah, a lot of kids.217.8774
221 218.1059[Mm-hm.]218.4370 
223 218.9033were you- did you play outside a lot? Did you.221.0331
224VLD_se0_ag4_m_01221.2522Yeah, uh.221.6765
226 221.9050That's the only time you could play. You never played in the house.224.4836 
228 224.7774[<laugh>]225.8767 
230 226.5575So, what'd y'all do while y'all were outside? Like what games did y'all play?229.4438
231VLD_se0_ag4_m_01229.8868Just uh, you-231.3370
233 231.4600the boys would wrestle,233.2692 
235 233.5116uh, if you did a combination of boys and girls, you would236.5285 
237 236.6498play uh, like237.6336 
239 237.7316hide and go seek.238.9428 
241 239.5536Or the239.8893 
243 240.4629guys would shoot marbles.242.0576 
245 242.1555Or you would um,243.2653 
247 243.6803<ts>243.7642 
249 243.9076create little, um,245.3298 
251 245.7308sticks like cowboy and Indian [games, or.]248.3933 
252VLD_int_01247.5120[Mm-hm. Mm-hm.]248.3933
253VLD_se0_ag4_m_01248.7897You would play, um250.0475
255 250.5278<ts>250.6490 
257 251.4697even boys jump rope252.9711 
259 253.3768competition with the girls. Or you play255.4798 
261 255.9029or you can hopscotch, you know, with the little glass, and you draw your little squares out and you just toss the glass and261.2256 
263 261.7141play hopscotch and just263.1409 
265 263.6305if you was264.2693 
267 264.6517if you had a265.2812 
269 265.3884few dollars uh, a266.1345 
271 266.2884few s-266.6334 
273 266.7780few pennies.267.5648 
275 267.9192You would get you some jackstone.269.5373 
277VLD_se0_ag4_m_01269.9756[You know. (laughing)]270.8569
278VLD_int_01271.9806Did you jump rope?272.6381
280VLD_int_01273.7560Were you good?274.3575
281VLD_se0_ag4_m_01274.7912I was decent, yeah.275.9103
282VLD_int_01277.6356So, that means you weren't that great.278.7407
283VLD_se0_ag4_m_01279.6348I m- I co-280.2083
285 280.4042they would choose me to play, so [I guess I. <laugh>]283.7754 
286VLD_int_01281.9802[Oh, okay. So you were alright, you were great.]283.7754
287 284.3863So, then, okay, so tell me about your siblings.286.3529
290 288.0688My, uh, brother that's next to-290.4469 
292 290.8759next to me,291.6954 
294 291.8353uh, he's four years293.2295 
296 293.6305younger293.9709 
298 294.2507four years younger than me.295.3325 
300 296.0692And I have a296.4469 
302 296.5168I have a sister that's um,298.0591 
304 299.1549two years299.8853 
306 300.0812younger than me. But, my sister was301.6852 
308 301.8018raised by my grandmother. By her grandmother.304.1192 
312 305.9133Uh, and I have a baby brother who's seven years308.5712 
314 308.9628younger than I am.309.9654 
316 310.7907Um.311.3351 
318 311.6056My youngest brother, he-312.8226 
320 313.4567he's um314.3054 
322 314.8369<ts>314.9302 
324 315.0608he lives now in, Augusta.316.9481 
326 317.1206He retired military out the Air Force about319.7551 
328 319.9184twenty eight years I think.321.1354 
330 321.2193Now he works for the government.322.6088 
331VLD_int_01324.2723And so, all of y'all played together even though with the age difference? Or did.327.8162
332VLD_se0_ag4_m_01328.1612Yeah, for s- the kids, no, you-329.9599
334 330.2630I mean, kids played331.3308 
336 331.4754uh, in segments, you know, like you had333.4245 
338 334.1565uh,334.5202 
340 335.6195uh,335.9926 
342 336.1091uh, I just take a range from like ten and under, like you have a ten year old,339.8628 
344 340.3664you gonna play with the eight to ten, and then you have the, younger. Kids mostly just344.2774 
346 344.9209pl- they had- back then, you had346.3058 
348 347.0040the families that would always348.6267 
350 349.0277ha- all families had a lot of kids pretty much. Any where from352.1565 
352 352.8781least three to four.353.7967 
354 354.0159unlike today where you might have one or two.356.1328 
356 356.5385So, there was always kids around. And they- mostly kids just play. Teenagers play with teenagers and361.6059 
358 362.5432children ten and under played among themselves.364.8405 
360 365.1343[Mm-hm.]365.4234 
361VLD_int_01365.3395[So,] let's talk about school then.367.5450
363VLD_int_01368.2025Um, because since you knew a lot of kids in that group, which school did you go to when you were younger?372.3140
364VLD_se0_ag4_m_01373.8714I originally374.7993
366 375.0873um,375.6562 
368 376.0712I started out going to377.1996 
370 377.8850to county's378.6124 
372 378.8876going to um,379.8947 
374 380.5913<ts>380.7032 
376 380.8437county school when I was [five years old.]382.8336 
377VLD_int_01381.8590[So sorry.]382.8336
378 383.2579[Sorry] that that [happened to] you.384.4423
381 383.9620[Yeah.]384.2324 
382 384.5262<laugh>384.7547
384 385.2163I was going to county school when I was a386.9649 
386 387.2587like five year old.388.3160 
388 388.8336So, they would let me- they would let me go to390.5262 
390 391.0205to scho- county school.392.3074 
392 392.9929And then we m-393.6259 
394 393.7005um.394.2461 
396 394.5212<ts>394.6191 
398 394.9688Transitioned back395.8268 
400 396.0366to the city,396.8526 
402 397.7339I couldn't go to398.4613 
404 398.5686um,399.1747 
406 399.8777in400.1668 
408 400.2367for a-400.5491 
410 400.7636I had to sit out a year.402.0180 
412 403.0065So, I couldn't go to403.9344 
414 404.1909first grade and I end up405.3554 
416 406.0316I went406.4559 
418 408.1672when I was five, I was able to go to409.8225 
420 410.3681I was is the first grade.411.4440 
422 411.5233But then, when I come to the city, they wouldn't let me [go to the (laughing)]414.2511 
423VLD_int_01413.6403[To the first grade. Mm-hm.]414.9925
424VLD_se0_ag4_m_01414.5962[Right.] So, I was uh, even though I could do the416.3960
425 416.5079class work,417.2120
427 417.3240they say by definition, in city school, you had to be six.420.2651 
429 420.7780So, I went to421.5567 
431 421.7899I stayed, I-423.0209 
433 423.5839end up staying in424.6191 
435 424.7683the first grade425.6169 
437 426.0646for a year.426.5542 
439 427.0158When I really should have been in the second by definition.429.5771 
441 429.6796Yeah.429.9687 
443 430.0900[Mm-hm.]430.4071 
444VLD_int_01430.3325[So] which school was- which- when you came back to the city, where did [you.]433.3575
445VLD_se0_ag4_m_01433.1990[I] went to school at um,434.7611
446 434.8450South435.4092
448 435.6377uh, South Street Elementary School.437.8934 
450 437.9773Which is on uh,438.9472 
452 439.0265South Street. On the440.4440 
454 440.5279uh, south side of town. That was the only443.2091 
456 443.9540elementary school445.1943 
458 445.9544in d-446.4347 
460 446.6585Valdosta.447.2693 
462 447.4325On the south side of town.448.7848 
465VLD_int_01450.0845[And] then,450.8772
466 450.9892um, how was it? How was school?452.8263
468 452.9243How- was it453.5537 
470 453.6843good? Did you feel like you were getting a good education?455.7114 
471VLD_se0_ag4_m_01456.0518Uh, f-456.5973
473 457.2035Yeah.457.5206 
475 457.6698I did cause I- I mean ks- cause my education started at home.460.7695 
477 461.7907My mom home-462.6253 
479 462.7792well sh-463.0496 
481 463.6651back then she didn't464.5791 
483 464.7796we didn't call it home school.466.1027 
485VLD_se0_ag4_m_01466.8721But, I was-467.4223
487 467.9912before I was um,469.1615 
489 469.9962even started going to school, my mama would sit down with me and472.7876 
491 473.0394would go with different474.0186 
493 474.2751I was mandated to have to read.475.8605 
495 476.5506And I would have to um,478.0707 
497 479.2306explain to her what I read,480.8393 
499 480.9512uh,481.3895 
501 481.6133and every morning when I wou-482.6905 
503 482.8117went to start going to school484.2758 
505 485.0161before I went to school every morning, my mama would go487.3382 
507 487.8838over my school work with me.489.3358 
509 489.4011Every subject.490.1937 
511 491.5227Then, bef-492.0904 
513 492.2349when I came home from school,493.5406 
515 493.7504my mom would sit down with me before I was even allowed to go outside to play, I had to go over all my subjects again.499.1347 
517 499.2328So,499.5499 
519 500.0675I500.3845 
521 500.7949we-500.9861 
523 501.0700from my mom's standpoint, I had a502.7486 
525 502.8932uh,503.0937 
527 503.1776great opportunity.504.3049 
529 504.3748You know, [for schooling.]505.4053 
532 504.8455[Cause she] really505.6665 
533VLD_se0_ag4_m_01505.7504[Yeah. She.]506.3332
535VLD_se0_ag4_m_01506.5990That was her m-507.1632
537 507.7368that was one of the things that she promoted.509.5833 
539 510.1697S- school.510.8598 
541 511.1069I mean, that,511.5033 
543 511.6292school before anything.513.0140 
544VLD_int_01513.2658So, you went to South Street, then where'd you go? So, how515.5861
546 515.7354how long- how [many grades was that?]517.7218 
547VLD_se0_ag4_m_01516.8171[I went from.]517.4700
548 517.8756I went f- um, to the fifth grade.519.8434
550VLD_se0_ag4_m_01520.2257[And] in the sixth grade,521.3204
551 521.5676I went to um,522.7141
553 522.9333they built a new523.7265 
555 523.8431school on the524.7291 
557 524.9622the south s-525.6343 
559 525.9420south side of town, which is called South East Elementary School.529.2940 
561 530.5673They built that school in ni- nineteen sixty nine, I think it was.534.4457 
562VLD_int_01534.4737So, you went there?535.1592
563VLD_se0_ag4_m_01535.2757I went there for my sixth grade year.537.5153
564VLD_int_01538.3313And then?538.9515
565VLD_se0_ag4_m_01538.9515Then I went539.8829
566 539.9995my seventh grade year, I started at542.2301
568 542.7710Valosta M-543.3259 
570 543.4658um, Junior High, they called it then, but now they call it Valdosta Middle School. And that's when the integration started.548.6684 
572 548.9435When I was in the seventh grade.550.6828 
573VLD_int_01551.1537Did it s-551.6294
575 551.7868so.552.3043 
577 553.8384Okay.554.2394 
579 555.2699So, what- what happened whe- at that time?556.8693 
581 557.2517The integration?557.9837 
582VLD_se0_ag4_m_01558.3556That's when, uh,559.1157
584 559.9224um,560.3700 
586 561.3399black and white562.0762 
588 562.6077start, they integrated the Valdosta City School system, where blacks and whites was going to the same school.567.6672 
589VLD_int_01567.9144Was it.568.3434
591 569.3692How was it?569.9545 
593 570.5000I mean, did you571.2321 
595 571.3673notice anything? As like- I mean you were still like573.2278 
597 573.4330relatively young, but [like.]574.4682 
598VLD_se0_ag4_m_01574.2537[I] was eleven years old.575.5360
599VLD_int_01575.6852So you were old enough to understand. Did it-577.4559
601 577.8663was there any feelings? Like, was it579.3124 
603 579.5362tension?580.1622 
604VLD_se0_ag4_m_01580.5865Well, I mean sometimes it was like582.3666
606 582.6837tension, because it was like583.9380 
608 584.1525cultures. You know, you don't really know another person culture until you really587.4352 
610 588.1428understand they culture, or try to understand it, you know, it's always confusion, you know.592.1296 
612 592.2181But, uh,592.6425 
614 592.9829by most part, I mean it was594.4225 
616 594.5624it was civil, you know.595.8121 
617VLD_int_01596.5302<ts> How um,597.6586
619 598.2974how were the599.7196 
621 601.2572wait. Wait. Let me back up. So, this was the first time, so when you went to South Street and South East,605.8946 
622VLD_se0_ag4_m_01605.8946It [was all]606.4401
623VLD_int_01606.1697[that was] all black?606.9852
625 607.3396Right. Mm-hm.607.8758
626VLD_int_01607.8758And then, when you go to junior high,610.5284
628VLD_int_01610.9527that's when611.6148
630 612.3656that's when they integrated the school, so then [there were] white students?614.9310 
632VLD_int_01615.2527Did you find that the quality of the school was different?618.1398
634VLD_int_01619.7033[But, the materials] the access that you had to things. Was it better now that y'all were integrated? Or was it624.4405
635 624.5626about the same?625.2582
638 627.3826Be honest with you,628.3895 
640 628.8594I couldn't tell a difference. Cause a- again, [uh (laughing)], my impact was632.9994 
642VLD_se0_ag4_m_01633.3228[I think-] was home. [You know.] So.635.2432
645 634.4489[Mm-hm.]634.8577 
646 635.8689And then, you went there for637.4554
648 637.9985what grades is that? Seven and eight.639.3959 
649VLD_se0_ag4_m_01639.5118Seventh and eighth grade.640.6763
650VLD_int_01640.8777And then high school.642.0920
651VLD_se0_ag4_m_01642.2141Then, no.643.0012
653VLD_se0_ag4_m_01643.4711There was um,644.1851
654 645.3190at Pinevale,646.3808
656 647.1910School647.7646 
658 648.4420they use that as a649.6014 
660 650.1079ninth grade650.8279 
662 650.9439for all kids.651.8715 
664 652.6159So, [you.]653.2383 
665VLD_int_01653.0370[Black] and white?653.6045
666VLD_se0_ag4_m_01653.7265Black and white.654.4893
668 654.6784So, all bl-655.3455 
670 655.4493black and white kids only went to junior high for two years.658.1830 
672 658.6712And then, a-659.1655 
674 659.2936for the ninth grade, only660.8414 
676 661.5859all kids went to662.4768 
678 662.6782went to Pinevale High School664.0658 
680 664.8068before they moved over to the666.6436 
682 667.0036Valdosta High School for tenth, eleventh and twelfth grade.669.5015 
683VLD_int_01669.9713Okay. So, how was670.7579
685 671.1729Pi- I've never-672.3628 
687 672.5153that's interesting. How was Pinevale when it was674.4997 
689 674.6706just ninth grade?675.7507 
690VLD_se0_ag4_m_01676.3853It was-676.9406
692 677.2335it was good. Cause I think it-678.6059 
694 678.6852it- it helped because you don't680.4034 
696 680.7390get681.0535 
698 681.1599kids681.5531 
700 681.6629come down right be- from a junior high setting684.1970 
702 684.2763to a high school settings. It was like transition687.0173 
704 687.3854of getting to688.1176 
706 689.3014I guess grow up a little bit.690.5951 
708 690.7171You know [the]691.2637 
710VLD_se0_ag4_m_01691.3980[you know. <laugh>]692.4048
711 692.5025Before you e- get the full thrust of, you know,694.7664
713 695.2352m- mingling with older kids. You actually get the chance to, you know,698.5387 
715 699.1602build some699.8506 
717 700.2534I guess some nerves. Or I mean get s- get a better foundation. Get some grips on yourself704.5233 
719 704.6209instead of just getting705.5546 
721 705.8293thrust in. Cause706.6775 
723 707.6051I guess when you look at it, when yo- when kids sometime get go from711.0109 
725 711.6577from one- from junior high then thrust in with the kids from ninth to twelfth grade, that's a big jump.716.8082 
727 716.9608You know.717.3452 
729 717.8578A big jump, so.719.0111 
732 720.4817So, was it- every- y'all did-721.8750 
734 722.0270did y'all do like everything that you would do in high school but just,724.0989 
736 724.2271just724.5383 
738 724.7152in ninth grade?725.5390 
739VLD_se0_ag4_m_01725.6305Right. Just ninth grade classes727.3330
741 727.4734only. I mean, we had our own football team, I mean, our own football, I mean with ninth grade football, basketball732.8576 
743 733.3217everything would have been just like you was at the high school, but it was just like the ninth grades.736.9586 
744VLD_int_01737.2149So, who'd y'all play against?738.5759
745VLD_se0_ag4_m_01738.6430We'd play against other schools at uh,740.7517
747 741.4927other high school teams.742.7150 
749 743.1170I mea- cause every school back then had ninth grades.746.0704 
750VLD_int_01746.2962The ninth grade- [Ah.]747.3253
751VLD_se0_ag4_m_01746.9714[That they] mighta not have been748.1834
752 748.9008as separated as we were in Val- at Valdosta school system, but they still had ninth grades.753.8936
753VLD_int_01754.1987Oh, okay.755.0044
755VLD_int_01755.1631[Cause] I was like who y'all playing [against?]756.9296
757 757.0272[Mm-hm.]757.4788
759 757.9093So,758.4341
761 758.9772did you play any sports?760.0146 
762VLD_se0_ag4_m_01760.2770Yeah, I played basketball in the ninth grade.762.3334
763VLD_int_01762.3517Oh, what position?763.2426
764VLD_se0_ag4_m_01764.0020I played guard.765.0638
766 765.2530Mm-hm.765.6740 
767VLD_int_01765.7350Shooting or point?766.5832
768VLD_se0_ag4_m_01766.8883Shooting guard.767.6999
769VLD_int_01768.0973Were you good?768.7197
770VLD_se0_ag4_m_01769.0248I was decent.769.7571
772 769.8547I [started.]770.5198 
773VLD_int_01770.4527[Like] jump rope decent?771.5450
774 771.6670[<laugh>]773.4916
777 772.2589[Mm-mm.]772.6861 
779 772.9241[I started.]773.7203 
780VLD_int_01774.0804Oh, yeah, you were pretty [good.]775.4489
782VLD_int_01775.9127Okay, so then how did you- what happened when you transitioned to778.7257
784 779.1453the big779.5908 
786 779.7311s- high school?780.5854 
789 781.8913Ninth or tenth grade, I783.3739 
791 783.4593transitioned, and I- I didn't play sports anymore cause I w- I wanted787.4745 
793 787.8330I was always ambitious and wanted789.4135 
795 789.5966a car790.1153 
797 791.0791[So.]791.4575 
798VLD_int_01791.2012[Oh. So,] you wanted to [work?]792.2813
799VLD_se0_ag4_m_01792.0006[I wanted] to work. So,793.3491
800 794.2645my cousin795.1798
802 795.8127<ts>795.9054 
804 796.0036uh,796.5313 
806 797.2269mom used to pick us up798.4962 
808 799.0149and we799.6190 
810 799.8143uh, befriended a801.1140 
812 801.6022<ts>801.7242 
814 802.2063young- I- uh, I call her young lady. Still call her old la- young lady Ms. /RD-NAME-2/.806.1839 
816 807.2048And Ms. /RD-NAME-2/ was like,808.3696 
818 808.6075uh, she was a809.3997 
820 809.5766k- over the custodians at the811.4866 
822 811.9382school system.812.9877 
824 813.2906So, my family knew her.814.6575 
826 815.4141So, Ms. /RD-NAME-2/ gave me and my cousin a job after school.818.5351 
828 818.6388We was in the tenth grade, we would go after school and uh, work821.8485 
830 822.0194Monday through Friday. And I was able to actually, save money825.1871 
832 825.5838toward getting a car.826.5052 
833VLD_int_01827.2397How long did it take you to save to get your car?828.8127
834VLD_se0_ag4_m_01829.9904It didn't take long because during the summertime,832.6692
836 833.0648in those days,834.0473 
838 834.3341you had to go835.1945 
840 835.4203out in the fields836.3376 
842 836.5084if you wanted837.1430 
844 837.5031income. I mean, we don't-839.0042 
846 839.3886no such thing as what kids now an al-841.4148 
848 841.5857an allowance.842.4766 
850 843.0136You had to make your allowance by working. So, during the summer,845.9853 
852 846.5345I would go crop tobacco and save money.848.8032 
854 849.6697And I would even go buy my school clothes in the tenth grade.852.3785 
856 852.7264That just something that853.5318 
858 853.9163I just shifted it854.6973 
860 855.2282and took control of myself.856.6012 
861VLD_int_01858.0596So, how young were you when you started860.6223
863 861.5559doing tobacco in the fields ?863.1207 
864VLD_se0_ag4_m_01863.2427Probably into- now, working tobacco, that was tradition866.3670
866 866.7148f-866.8064 
868 867.0077for most black kids868.3380 
870 868.9463doin-869.2270 
872 869.3551in my age.870.1057 
874 870.2338Probably start working the 'bacca when you was probably about in872.6930 
876 872.8517um, about ten years old, I mean, you do some form of work. You know, you go876.9711 
878 877.4105to field ac- uh.878.9106 
880 879.3683Pick peaches, uh, you would go pick beans, it was always something883.4674 
882 883.9556that we just884.6207 
884 884.8221as kids would go out and do in order to have our own income or just have spending money cause mama889.8023 
886 890.2844during those days just didn't have money to t- to just ha-892.9586 
888 893.2088give out to kids, you know. So we just894.8930 
890 895.2164grew up with a work ethics I guess.896.8656 
891VLD_int_01897.3477Oh, we don't have that today.898.4766
895 900.1974so, you did that every summer?901.6627 
897VLD_int_01902.4559And you-902.9502
899 903.1150now, how much money would you make?904.5612 
900VLD_se0_ag4_m_01906.0009Depend on what you was doing.907.4410
902 907.6912Like, uh,908.6004 
904 909.8270if you like worked at the barn911.5051 
906 912.0163which, I started working tobacco when I was about seven,914.7941 
908 914.9196eight. Cause my915.6396 
910 915.7556um,916.2681 
912 916.7746<ts>916.8539 
914 917.5801It's917.9882 
916 918.2201Ms. uh, /RD-NAME-3/919.4711 
918 920.3376uh,920.6942 
920 920.8223in what we call Little Miami,922.7003 
922 923.4203<ts>923.5241 
924 924.1038which is my stepfather's uh926.0443 
926 926.1819mom926.7555 
928 927.7991they would,928.3300 
930 928.7754I guess, she would call it,929.8189 
932 930.3742they930.6488 
934 930.7952they called it the hauling hands.932.6709 
936 933.0797That's what they called it.934.1049 
938 934.2758Uh.934.4283 
940 934.6175People in the neighborhood.935.6854 
942VLD_se0_ag4_m_01936.1263Like, farmers and all, they would hire937.8930
944 938.2164uh, someone like /beacon/939.6077 
946 939.8640uh i-940.3927 
948 940.6124be the, I guess, um942.3393 
950 942.7360<ts>942.8275 
952 943.6998just like now with the Hispanics,945.3779 
954 945.6525you have someone that's actually the lead person,948.4173 
956VLD_se0_ag4_m_01948.9238and then they h-949.4425
958 949.5584the lead person bring other people in to do the work. Migrant work.952.9815 
960 953.2439That's wha-953.5307 
962 953.6405I mean, we was the extension of doing the migrant work during that time. What the Hispanics do now.958.6485 
964 959.3075So, she would- the people in the neighborhood that wanted to work,961.9093 
966 962.4341they would be963.1724 
968 963.5874more or less up under her umbrella.965.2106 
970VLD_se0_ag4_m_01965.7392And she would make sure that that967.1610
971 967.3379we would967.7651
973 967.8688get the w-968.2960 
975 968.4363the g- the guy would supply the transportation. That he would give them a truck or whatever.973.2945 
977 973.6362They get the hand- what they would call hands975.3906 
979 975.5126back then. That's the main term they used.977.3555 
981 978.1915To go out into the fields, or, in980.2765 
983 980.6365like,980.9050 
985 981.2040crop tobacco and982.6136 
987 982.7662all that stuff, so I would actually work at the barn, or what they called where the-985.9151 
989 986.0554where the tobacco is strung.987.5627 
991 987.9654And hung up into the barn989.4517 
993 990.0253before it's cooked.991.0627 
995 991.5021So, I would-991.9353 
997 992.1367was hired to pick up leaves and like993.8577 
999 993.9858take off sticks, uh, like the996.1209 
1001 996.3406like they was996.7677 
1003 997.4451go in the field, crop the 'bacca, then they would have what they call1000.2709 
1005 1000.6065handers1001.4303 
1007 1001.8758and stringers. The handers were the person that handed the 'bacca to the person that was stringing it with a-1006.5844 
1009 1006.8834on a stick.1007.7682 
1011 1008.1603And once the stick is strung up1009.8275 
1013 1010.0649enough 'bacca on the stick to take off, you would take- I would take that stick1013.5743 
1015 1014.0380and take it and hand it to someone in the barn, and they would start at the top1017.4847 
1017 1017.6861and they would hang it all the way from the top to the bottom.1019.8570 
1019 1020.2841until that barn is filled.1021.5656 
1021 1021.6998And once that barn was filled,1023.2620 
1023 1023.7705then they would- l- light it with1025.0581 
1025 1025.1374um,1025.6500 
1027 1026.3395<ts> I guess kerosene back in those days. And cook the 'bacca.1029.4702 
1029 1029.6838And once the 'bacca was cooked,1031.2826 
1031 1031.8073then1032.4175 
1033 1032.4908we would1032.8935 
1035 1033.5281take the tobacco off the stick1035.5063 
1037 1036.0311and put it in these big sheets1037.9594 
1039 1038.4048and then it would go off to the warehouse to be sold.1040.6700 
1040VLD_int_011041.3352Now, how long did that whole process take to1043.4428
1042 1043.6381do from stringing it up to.1045.7372 
1043VLD_se0_ag4_m_011045.9325Well, the stinging part probably would take1047.8579
1045 1048.8586one day, cause you would, uh1050.4757 
1047 1050.6758probably take y'all a day to fill a barn.1052.6004 
1049 1052.8177Based on the size it was, you would, uh,1055.2698 
1051 1055.8373And then they would let it cook1057.2774 
1053 1057.7453according how-1058.3148 
1055 1059.1263I would guess1059.9074 
1057 1060.1576two or three days sometimes, cause they added-1062.2767 
1059 1062.3743I guess,1062.8930 
1061 1063.1859not like1063.7290 
1063 1064.5753cook cook1065.1672 
1065 1065.2587well, I guess you'd I guess1066.3571 
1067 1067.5714had the heat on1068.4745 
1069 1068.6454and you just cured it until all of the uh- And what they call was um, the had to cook it at a- at a rate so the tobacco stems1075.5586 
1071 1076.7791which is like a-1077.5605 
1073 1077.7192if you looking at1078.3538 
1075 1078.5430uh,1079.0983 
1077 1079.2508collared greens, you know, [the stems] is thicker than the leaves.1081.9358 
1079VLD_se0_ag4_m_011082.3459They would have to cook it so1083.6518
1081 1084.2193that it wouldn't burn the leaves up1085.9055 
1083 1086.0397but also would cook the te-1087.3456 
1085 1087.4798stems where the wouldn't1088.7146 
1087 1088.8475stay green.1089.7498 
1089 1090.0244Because,1090.5316 
1091 1090.8245if you took the1091.8018 
1093 1092.4721tobacco,1093.2227 
1095 1093.5095and they had green st- um, /thems/,1095.6204 
1097 1095.8278stems on it,1096.5960 
1099 1096.7669and mix, and mix it in the sheet, it would ruin the tobacco.1099.8362 
1101 1100.2573So, that was a1101.0994 
1103 1101.3435process they had to really watch.1102.9668 
1105 1103.4489Mm-hm.1103.8456 
1106VLD_int_011104.1995I have never heard1105.4051
1110 1106.6927And so, [hw many] barns wha- like,1108.1145 
1112VLD_int_011108.5625cause clearly, this- you have to have a lot of.1110.2100
1113VLD_se0_ag4_m_011111.1504Yeah, you would. Cause1112.0535
1115 1112.8799um, most ge- most farmers,1114.7170 
1117 1115.5591they would have mu- multiple barns, like, you know.1118.0488 
1119 1118.5008Cause there were like,1119.2387 
1121 1119.8490seven, eight barns, cause1121.3501 
1123 1121.5210according to how long it took1122.6621 
1125 1122.7414to tobacco to1123.4200 
1127 1123.5481cure out because there's different levels of tobacco.1126.3002 
1129 1126.6907When you first start,1127.7281 
1131 1128.6129they call the- at the bottom of the stalk,1130.8534 
1133 1131.7504they would1132.1227 
1135 1132.2752uh.1132.6108 
1137 1133.6482<ts> They would-1134.1608 
1139 1134.2828you hafta1134.9480 
1141 1135.0822crop that first.1136.1826 
1143 1137.4518That's what they made cigars out of,1139.1543 
1145 1139.2641by the [way.]1139.9049 
1146VLD_int_011139.6181[Oh.] Okay.1140.2443
1147VLD_se0_ag4_m_011140.3419The- the1140.7935
1149 1140.9095first crop of tobacco, that's (laughing) what they made cigars out of.1143.9300 
1151 1144.7355And you would crop that first. What they call sand lugs, that was the1147.8084 
1153 1147.9183technical name for it.1149.0166 
1155 1149.3279Sand lug.1150.1162 
1157 1150.2810Cause it was so close to the ground, that [it was] hid in the sand.1152.9293 
1159 1153.2710[Gotcha.]1153.6433
1160VLD_se0_ag4_m_011153.3870[So they-] so you was lugging that1154.9896
1161 1155.3496off the stalks.1156.3320
1163 1157.0033So, you would crop that first, and then at-1159.0704 
1165 1159.2107each week,1160.0284 
1167 1161.2783uh,1161.7360 
1169 1162.1204you would go back1163.3393 
1171 1163.5664and as p- the weeks progressed, you would take the stalk-1166.5625 
1173 1166.7944you would t-1167.1605 
1175 1167.5565get more- more tobacco. All the way til it go to the top.1170.6014 
1177 1171.0896And that's the1171.6998 
1179 1171.9683process of cropping tobacco. Because it was1174.0988 
1181 1174.5443at the bottom, that's where it got1175.9783 
1183 1176.2306brown first, I mean, far as, bec-1178.2748 
1185 1178.5677for us, it1179.1657 
1187 1179.3183say ripe1180.0909 
1190 1181.4505And then, as you start1182.4940
1192 1182.8479um,1183.2446 
1194 1183.6229<ts> cropping tobacco off the stalk1185.4108 
1196 1185.8443and it progressed up the next week.1187.5285 
1198 1187.8763The next level would be ripe, and then1189.7288 
1200 1190.1803just like1190.6563 
1202 1190.9919/you-/1191.4984 
1204 1191.6570pruning I guess.1192.5480 
1206 1192.9157Go from one- one green t-1194.4474 
1208 1194.7841so, that was the process of tobacco.1196.4988 
1209VLD_int_011196.5964And how long- how many. So, you said you started when you were about seven eight1199.5620
1211 1199.6909for the lady. But, ho- how did you do this all the way until you graduated?1202.5040 
1212VLD_se0_ag4_m_011202.6688No, I did it until I like, [say I-]1204.5679
1213VLD_int_011204.3726[Got your] car?1205.0255
1216 1205.6052No, I- I did it1206.4749 
1218 1206.5909probably until I was about f- about fifteen.1209.0683 
1220 1209.4162Mm-hm. Then, at fifteen, I started um1211.6797 
1222 1212.5157<ts> working at the school,1213.9192 
1224 1214.2731after [school]1214.9748 
1225VLD_int_011214.8162[After] school. But what'd you do in the summer?1216.1780
1226VLD_se0_ag4_m_011216.7516In the summer, I got a job, um, at Strickland Cotton Mills.1220.5036
1228VLD_se0_ag4_m_011221.3640Yeah. Strickland Cotton Mills. I start working there1223.8414
1230 1224.5539um,1225.1458 
1232 1226.1832probably1226.9276 
1234 1227.5684my junior year.1228.3921 
1236 1228.5983And uh,1229.4465 
1238 1229.6906Yeah. My junior year1230.5597 
1240 1231.2859in Valdosta High School. I started working Strickland- I would go to Strickland Cotton Mills, I¬†would1235.8144 
1242 1236.5467work1236.8274 
1244 1237.0959I would got to sch- wo- school all day long,1239.2420 
1246 1239.5288I would get off1240.3831 
1248 1241.1093and be a Strickland Cotton Mill at1242.5809 
1250 1242.6724four o'clock1243.5511 
1252 1243.8501and I would work a eight hour shift1245.2706 
1254 1247.1128five or six days a week. At least, I would work1249.6208 
1256 1249.9612sometime we had to work Saturdays,1251.5355 
1258 1252.1885but at least, Monday through Friday, I would work1254.2310 
1260 1254.3652eight hours.1255.1402 
1262 1255.7952Just like an adult. You know.1257.2048 
1264 1257.9377Uh.1258.3954 
1266 1258.7005After school.1259.4388 
1267VLD_int_011260.7761Why did you work so much?1262.2833
1268VLD_se0_ag4_m_011262.7715It was need, I met my-1264.6631
1270 1264.8528my mom1266.1892 
1272 1266.7201um,1267.2327 
1274 1267.3059to help her. Cause1268.4600 
1276 1269.4181um,1269.9978 
1278 1270.3029<ts> I just said, um,1271.5599 
1280 1271.9566to help her, cause it really wasn't, I mean1274.2301 
1282 1275.0966conducive1275.7739 
1284 1276.6681sometime my dad wouldn't1278.1326 
1286 1278.4865do what he's supposed [to do. You.] So, you know.1280.7741 
1289 1279.9482[Hm.]1280.1435 
1290VLD_se0_ag4_m_011281.1639And my mama had poured so much into me, you know, and I just had to1284.3325
1292 1284.6865do whatever I had to do [to help her.]1286.3585 
1293VLD_int_011285.7360[So it wasn't] just because you wanted to, it was really out of necessity at this [point.]1288.7510
1294VLD_se0_ag4_m_011288.5253[It was] out of necessity.1289.7701
1297VLD_int_011290.7769That makes sense now.1291.6440
1300 1293.4739Did you get the car?1294.0292
1303 1295.0891[Mm-hm.]1295.4019 
1304VLD_int_011295.0910[And when'd] you get the car?1295.9941
1305VLD_se0_ag4_m_011296.6164I got the car in the summer1299.3685
1307 1299.9354right bet- fore I went to um,1302.0956 
1309 1304.1425the tenth- eleventh grade.1305.4545 
1310VLD_int_011305.9182What kind of car did you get?1306.7970
1311VLD_se0_ag4_m_011307.2363I bought a1308.1708
1313 1308.3661Cougar XL seven. It was black1311.2036 
1315 1311.4782red stripes1312.5944 
1317 1312.7042and it was um,1313.8598 
1319 1314.0306<ts> because it was a-1315.1716 
1321 1315.2753it was automatic, but this gear shift was in the floor.1318.0172 
1322VLD_int_011319.1033And how-1320.4336
1324 1321.4561how m- how much was it?1322.7924 
1325VLD_se0_ag4_m_011323.9640It probably1324.6963
1327 1327.2499probably about fifteen hundred. Uh. I'd say fift-1329.4267 
1329 1329.5285maybe fifteen hundred dollars and I just paid1331.6581 
1331 1332.1464I had a down payment and it1333.6170 
1333 1333.7085and1334.0076 
1335 1334.2455when I worked during the week,1335.6978 
1337 1336.1555every week, I would just1337.1568 
1339 1337.6511go to the car lot and1338.7861 
1341 1339.0912pay the guy.1339.6526 
1342VLD_int_011341.5946Brand new?1342.2170
1343VLD_se0_ag4_m_011343.1811Uh, n- it was I mean- that year was seventy1347.3937
1345 1348.8953two.1349.6276 
1347 1350.3660It was about four years old. Cause it was a sixty eight.1352.8862 
1349 1353.0998Mm-hm.1353.4781 
1352 1353.9451But it [was brand new to you.]1355.0679 
1355 1355.0586Yeah.1355.4123 
1356 1355.4829Mm-hm.1355.9848
1357VLD_int_011356.0641Okay. So, then, tell me a little bit. Okay, so we got all-1358.7255
1359 1358.9330which I've never heard anything about.1360.3426 
1361VLD_int_011360.6782[Toba- So,] that's [really] interesting. [So, now,] tell me about the rest of high school.1363.6872
1364 1362.0354[Mm-hm.]1362.3527 
1365VLD_int_011363.8947So, you worked. So, you didn't do a lot of stuff in school outside of going to school.1366.9669
1368 1367.1805Yeah, just going to school. I mean and1369.3122 
1370 1369.8126may-1370.2764 
1372 1370.6026just making sure I1371.6156 
1374 1371.9390did my school work.1372.8225 
1376 1372.9872You [know.]1373.3717 
1377VLD_int_011373.2618[And] then go work your eight [hours.]1374.7256
1378VLD_se0_ag4_m_011374.5555[Go there-1374.8728
1379 1374.9704My eight hours and-1376.0480
1381 1376.2006and on Sundays, um1377.3112 
1383 1377.6468Saturdays and Sundays and I would1379.2195 
1385 1379.4086actually go to church.1380.7363 
1387 1380.9091You know.1381.2752 
1389 1381.4278But, um.1382.0136 
1391 1383.0258/I sat at-/, sometime I'd go to like some of the functions, you know, like, I mean I go to s-1386.8290 
1393 1386.9877ba- some of the ball games and stuff, you know, like most kids. But I was just1390.5844 
1395 1391.5766mostly just working.1392.6627 
1397 1392.8946Working and reading. Always been an1395.2052 
1399 1396.1938avid reader. And I was, um1397.8115 
1401 1398.0253forcing it also.1399.1603 
1403 1399.4776Working at Strickland,1400.5638 
1405 1401.1251the guy that I worked for,1402.3430 
1407 1403.4414<ts>1403.5512 
1409 1403.6550uh,1404.2103 
1411 1405.1317And it's ironic1405.9289 
1413 1406.3988you know, when I tell people this, they-1407.8816 
1415 1407.9976they are puzzled.1408.8702 
1417 1410.6769He,1410.8966 
1419 1411.0003uh.1411.6045 
1421 1412.3428<ts>1412.4649 
1423 1413.0595He told me, he said /RD-NAME-1/, he said, I see you um1416.2143 
1425 1416.8184he said he told me, you got to high school? I say yes sir.1419.4084 
1427 1420.7386And he said, uh,1421.5868 
1429 1421.7394I never1422.4106 
1431 1422.9559got a chance1423.9017 
1433 1424.0543to go to school.1425.0404 
1435 1427.2087He said, but uh,1428.4170 
1437 1429.8889even though you working these eight hours,1431.7622 
1439 1432.7449he said, when you get a break,1434.0691 
1441 1434.9661and I already told all these- cause I was working out there with grown [men.]1437.8338 
1443VLD_se0_ag4_m_011438.6393He said, I already instructed these guys,1440.7150
1445 1442.5419whenever you might not be at your1444.2627 
1447 1444.4946post, or whatever you're doing to help them,1446.4228 
1449 1447.0271that I had already authorized you to get your school work every day1450.6803 
1451 1451.0463while you're here at work.1452.0166 
1453 1452.1386You know.1452.5353 
1455 1453.4876If you need to take some time,1455.1169 
1457 1455.3793fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes, or whatever,1457.5089 
1459 1457.8323for your lunch break1458.6750 
1461 1458.9007extra.1459.4499 
1463 1460.1029Cause back then, you didn't even have no lunch breaks, you1462.3550 
1465 1462.4343you f- you'd fit in when you get a chance but,1465.0661 
1467 1465.4627he told me, he said I want you to-1467.0432 
1469 1467.1530to baby, let's get you a high school1468.8984 
1471 1469.1486education.1469.9541 
1473 1470.0273And that's a white guy telling me that and,1472.1659 
1475 1472.8372in nineteen seventy-1474.0379 
1477 1474.2210seventy three.1475.0936 
1479 1475.4353That- that was um,1476.3995 
1481 1476.4910when I look back on it now, you look at the turbulent1479.0148 
1483 1479.2663times we done had in this country,1480.8529 
1485 1481.1885that- that was remarkable to me. And I often just reflect back on that sometime. I say, I hope you know that-1485.8331 
1487 1486.2419that he encouraged me, you know. They- that-1488.1213 
1489 1488.3898that even if he didn't get it,1489.8886 
1491 1490.4256that he thought enough1491.3287 
1493 1491.6827of me1492.2502 
1495 1492.4149wanting to get it1493.2631 
1497 1493.6726that he was gonna support me1495.0517 
1499 1495.9062and make sure I got it.1496.9253 
1501 1497.2548Um.1497.5172 
1504VLD_int_011498.3709[That is] like1499.0177
1506VLD_int_011500.1405that's amazing.1500.9226
1510 1503.4510To hear that1504.1527 
1512 1505.9184amount1506.4553 
1514 1506.6567one,1507.1204 
1516 1507.4744that he admitted that he didn't have a degree, [or di-]1510.0434 
1518VLD_int_011510.1533you know, didn't have [his diploma.]1511.4286
1520 1511.5507[Mm-hm.]1511.9484
1521VLD_int_011511.9473And then, two, making sure1513.5219
1522 1514.0406while you getting paid, you [still-]1515.8066
1524 1515.9287[Mm-hm.]1516.3375
1525VLD_int_011516.1483[he still] supported to get- that's1517.7501
1526VLD_se0_ag4_m_011518.1772[You know, I.]1518.6526
1527VLD_int_011518.3292[that's] a big deal, like-1519.6107
1528 1520.1049and like you said, in nineteen-seventies.1521.7664
1530VLD_int_011522.0104[When] racial tensions were [all kinds of] a hot mess.1524.6039
1531VLD_se0_ag4_m_011522.9380[That's a /foreman/.]1523.9138
1532 1524.7442Yeah.1525.1347
1534 1525.2642Mm-hm.1525.7341 
1537 1527.2718then you graduated from1528.4068 
1539 1528.8170high school.1529.4821 
1540VLD_se0_ag4_m_011529.7262Yeah, I went to1530.6293
1542 1531.1175in fact,1531.8454 
1544 1533.1893I finished high school after the eleventh grade.1535.1847 
1546 1535.9374When I1536.3096 
1548 1536.8161after eleventh grade, all I needed was English four.1539.2452 
1550 1539.3977Just1539.6906 
1552 1539.7638my senior English.1540.8195 
1554 1541.4480So, I went to summer school1542.8149 
1556 1543.1200and the1543.6131 
1558 1543.9854year- uh, my class is seventy-five, but1546.2760 
1560 1546.9656in the summer1547.6246 
1562 1547.9175of1548.3629 
1564 1548.4459nineteen seventy-four, all I needed was English. And they was offering English1551.9277 
1566 1552.0131for summer school1553.0321 
1568 1553.1359so, I went to summer school, finished, got my English1555.6014 
1570 1555.7661four.1556.2543 
1572 1556.9072So, after the eleventh grade, I was finished with school.1559.2464 
1574 1560.0336[And.]1560.3587 
1575VLD_int_011560.1373[So,] what'd you do that year? Did you work?1561.6645
1576VLD_se0_ag4_m_011562.0611I worked, I continued to work at Strickland.1564.1525
1578 1564.3470After that year, you know,1565.7539 
1580 1565.8847and then I just decided I wanted-1567.3991 
1582 1568.2778what can else I do? I1569.8329 
1584 1571.4772mm. <ts>1572.0142 
1586 1572.4170I guess1572.9113 
1588 1573.5886I ended up going to the-1574.4952 
1590 1574.5807I went to the military.1575.8804 
1592 1576.3625And uh,1576.8629 
1594 1577.4426when I was in the military, I1578.7556 
1596 1579.7624just started thinking about you know, wh-1581.1049 
1598 1581.8982what I'd do in my future.1583.1735 
1600 1583.5153And I took some classes when I was in the military.1585.6878 
1602 1585.9685And then I got out of this.1587.3598 
1604 1587.5612Uh,1587.8462 
1606 1588.7676got married when I was in the military.1590.4579 
1608 1590.8608In uh,1591.8921 
1610 1592.0081after two years, and1593.2834 
1612 1593.6251then I had um1594.3635 
1614 1594.7364my first child,1595.7799 
1616 1596.7990was born in1597.6045 
1618 1597.8058nineteen seventy-nine. And.1600.0392 
1620 1600.9307So, when I got out,1601.9619 
1622 1602.1572I just started working, I got a job at /RD-WORK-1/.1604.8690 
1624 1605.5280And I've been at /RD-WORK-1/1606.5592 
1625VLD_int_011606.7527Ever since.1607.3568
1626VLD_se0_ag4_m_011607.4728Ever [since.]1608.2538
1627VLD_int_011608.1257[So,] let's go back cause we- that was whole lot of things you went through in that1610.8961
1629VLD_int_011611.2256little two [seconds.]1612.1596
1630VLD_se0_ag4_m_011611.8387[Too fast.]1612.1743
1631 1612.3000[<laugh>]1613.5326
1632VLD_int_011612.3000[That little two, two minutes] right there.1613.8621
1633 1614.2954Okay, so you went into the military. What made you go into the military?1617.3833
1634VLD_se0_ag4_m_011617.7556At the time, there was, uh1619.4520
1636 1620.9226there was no outlet.1621.9661 
1638 1622.6068Cause I wasn't thinking about school. I mean, I pl-1624.8651 
1640 1625.8781I- I know i probably coulda did the school work, but I just needed something real quick t-1630.2924 
1642 1630.4694I mean, a- to1631.2016 
1644 1631.3237to1631.7020 
1646 1631.7935get something going. Cause again, I always, my thought was always about my mom, what can I do to, you know,1636.8757 
1648 1637.3602assist her, financially. You know. So, I guess that the best thing1640.9123 
1650 1641.2174next best thing to do that, would be1643.0281 
1652 1643.1928be in the military, [you know.]1644.4255 
1654VLD_se0_ag4_m_011644.7795And have a1645.4629
1656 1645.8046a job,1646.5857 
1658 1646.6467I mean,1647.1776 
1660 1647.6597benefits1648.5994 
1662 1648.7581and so I can send my mama money, you know, to1651.0158 
1664 1651.2904try to help her out.1652.2362 
1666 1652.3583You know.1652.6634 
1668 1652.7427So,1653.0661 
1670 1654.2622that was it.1655.0371 
1671VLD_int_011655.2738Say, when'd you go into the mili- seventy-five?1657.5438
1674 1658.9369In uh, November1660.6726 
1676 1661.1607the fourth, nineteen seventy-five.1663.3636 
1677VLD_int_011663.6199And how long were you in the military?1665.0088
1678VLD_se0_ag4_m_011665.2561I stayed in the military four years.1667.0196
1679VLD_int_011667.2759Four years. [Okay.]1668.1791
1681VLD_int_011668.6306And so then, in two years,1670.4452
1683VLD_int_011670.9700you said that's when you met your wife.1672.0562
1685VLD_int_011672.3430[That's] the wife you're-1673.3071
1686 1673.6733that's the only wife-1674.3628
1688 1674.5281the same wife for today?1675.4617 
1689VLD_se0_ag4_m_011675.5289<ts> No, not the same wife [/today/.]1677.1080
1690VLD_int_011676.6211[This is a different one? Okay. Different one.]1678.2477
1691VLD_se0_ag4_m_011677.3216[Different one. <laugh>]1678.1753
1692 1678.2969[<laugh>]1678.8705
1693VLD_int_011678.4739[Just kidding.]1678.8705
1694 1678.9499[Different one.]1679.4197
1696 1679.5296Yeah.1679.7615
1699 1680.4022So, you met your wife, and then you had your first child.1682.8858 
1701VLD_int_011682.9773[How many] children do you have?1683.6851
1702VLD_se0_ag4_m_011683.9475I have two girls.1684.9299
1703VLD_int_011685.0459You have two girls. Okay.1686.1748
1705VLD_int_011686.3151[So, your] first daughter was born1687.7735
1708 1688.9757April the1689.6164 
1710 1690.1062eleventh, Nineteen seventy-nine.1692.0955 
1711VLD_int_011692.0955Nineteen seventy-nine.1692.8216
1713 1692.9498Okay.1693.3281 
1715 1693.5173And then [you.]1694.0941 
1716VLD_se0_ag4_m_011693.8088[Seventy] eight. Um, excuse me.1694.9768
1717VLD_int_011694.6839[Seventy] eight, and then how1695.9995
1718 1696.2375many years is separate with your-1697.5392
1721 1698.7110Seven years and two days.1700.1387 
1723 1700.2669August the [thirteenth.]1701.4504 
1728 1704.6968And two days. And two days.1706.0015 
1730 1706.5690And then, how.1707.6186 
1732 1708.6986So, why'd you decide to leave the military?1710.5903 
1734 1711.3056Cause of your family?1712.0134 
1737 1713.0874<ts>1713.2155 
1739 1714.2442Yeah, what- what really made me leave the military was1717.1854 
1741 1717.4356I was1717.8628 
1743 1718.2106some of the1718.7023 
1745 1719.4285<ts> talking to some of the veterans in the military.1721.7961 
1747 1722.8262And1723.6439 
1749 1723.9673them having to go1725.1145 
1751 1725.3098um,1726.0176 
1753 1726.9329<ts> what they call a remote tour.1728.3579 
1755 1729.1451And be separated from their1730.6340 
1757 1731.2687family,1731.8064 
1759 1732.0932their children,1732.7949 
1761 1733.6981and that's something I didn't want, cause my daughter was just born.1736.5991 
1763 1736.7639And I just couldn't fathom, you know1738.8081 
1765 1739.4488being separated from her1740.8380 
1767 1741.9058during the years, I mean,1743.0874 
1769 1743.9295one to two years old, and lose all that1746.2056 
1771 1746.3154possibly. Cause I just heard all the horror stories of-1748.6441 
1773 1748.7539when they came back,1749.8258 
1775 1750.2530they really didn't have no identity, with the kids, the kids really didn't know who they was, and that's a long time. Full year, I mean1756.0477 
1777 1756.5725and you really can't blame the kid, because the fact they are1759.5738 
1779 1759.6714you know,1760.0741 
1781 1760.4037basically1760.9225 
1783 1761.3436product of their surroundings, you know.1763.0278 
1785 1763.5947So, um.1764.2720 
1787 1764.7175I didn't wanna take that chance and I1766.5404 
1789 1766.8333and then again, just thinking back to1768.3222 
1791 1768.7671my relationship with my mom, you know1770.6221 
1793 1770.8479I1771.2621 
1795 1771.4391I jus- I just wanted to have that s-1772.8182 
1797 1773.0074that same strong relationship with my children, you know.1775.8626 
1800 1776.7047let's talk a little bit about-1778.2790 
1802 1778.6258before we1779.1689 
1804 1779.6144finish. Now, the mili-1780.4809 
1806 1780.6090before we leave the military.1781.7379 
1808VLD_int_011782.1529[Tell] me a little bit about going to Texas and North Carolina. How was it-1785.7507
1809 1785.8667How was it?1786.3523
1812 1787.4239Texas was when I went to uh, basic training.1790.2254 
1814 1790.6892Which was-1791.3506 
1816 1791.4482which was different, you know that's when you get all your instructions (laughing), you know, and then,1795.3206 
1818 1796.2238and it's-1796.6875 
1820 1796.8523it's all about, you know1798.0854 
1822 1798.2197uh, how you-1799.0130 
1824 1799.3364you know, receive it, and with my background, it1801.7373 
1826 1801.8593it really wasn't that1802.7746 
1828 1803.1530big of a deal with me, cause I'm1804.6236 
1830 1804.9653so u- I been used to people s-1806.7558 
1832 1806.9877you know, screaming1808.2479 
1834 1808.7056hollering, and that kind of1810.3714 
1836 1810.6949stuff, and it was, it's just a1812.0648 
1838 1812.5652part of just getting you regimented, to you know,1814.4324 
1840 1814.7314to make sure that you're1815.7749 
1842 1816.2923actually capable1817.5675 
1844 1817.7200of I guess1818.7391 
1846 1819.5873receiving instructions. I guess it was more1821.7567 
1848 1821.8910/gen/ around to make sure you gonna be able to receive instructions and, um,1825.6348 
1850 1826.0436<ts> and move forward.1827.0322 
1852 1827.6668So in my basic training- in fact, even in basic training,1830.7466 
1854 1831.6619<ts> I was able to um,1833.1800 
1856 1833.5095I was1833.9916 
1858 1834.0648given a position as the dorm chief1836.3025 
1860 1836.6686that [would be over all the s-]1838.3389 
1863 1839.0224over the troops, you know.1840.3038
1865 1840.8225Then,1841.1736 
1867 1841.2835and I uh,1841.9181 
1869 1842.3879you know,1842.8517 
1871 1843.0513I wa-1843.5456 
1873 1843.7774I would1844.1558 
1875 1844.5341what they call our, uh,1845.9498 
1877 1846.1695TIs1846.7309 
1879 1847.2043technical ins-1847.8267 
1881 1848.0219uh, training instructors.1849.5048 
1883 1849.9014One was Hispanic1851.2012 
1885 1851.5797and um,1851.9885 
1887 1852.1533one was um,1853.0930 
1889 1853.7582Caucasian.1854.5514 
1891 1854.9054And we never seen those guys1856.5025 
1893 1857.6802they w- they- we was- they would be with us during the day,1860.8228 
1895 1861.0815in fact one of 'em was a, uh1863.0464 
1897 1863.5346<ts> the Hispanic guy was a um1865.6041 
1899 1866.2631what we call disc jockeys back then.1868.2036 
1901 1868.3256You know.1868.6124 
1903 1869.0247He was a disc jockey, and the other one was uh,1871.4106 
1905 1871.5083I forget what else he did.1872.6555 
1907 1872.9057But, you never really seen him.1874.1993 
1909 1874.3832We basically on our own (laughing) in a sense, you know.1876.9766 
1911 1877.6601But, uh,1878.2032 
1913 1878.3313and- and they do that too just to1880.0431 
1915 1880.1530they say, well,1880.8059 
1917 1881.2391y'all guys doing good. We d- we don't need to babysit y'all, you know, just, no- you know what to do,1886.0070 
1919 1886.2399you know when to go to lunch, you know when to come back. And-1888.4916 
1921 1889.5656and uh,1890.3284 
1923 1890.8226<ts> so that was definitely different. And I got a chance to after1893.9379 
1925 1894.1454/dra-/ graduating from, um,1895.7686 
1927 1895.9761basic training,1896.8478 
1929 1897.5130I was, um,1898.5503 
1931 1898.9380<ts> I was security police. That was my MO.1901.3451 
1933 1901.4305That was the field I was in. In security.1903.3919 
1935 1904.2484<ts>1904.2966 
1937 1904.5940So, um,1905.1479 
1939 1905.8558my first assignment1907.0457 
1941 1907.2166af-1907.4179 
1943 1907.5888after went in the technical school, left Texas1909.7545 
1945 1909.8460then we stayed in Texas and went to technical school1912.2658 
1947 1912.6369and Lackland Air Force Base.1914.1197 
1949 1914.6567And I got an assignment, I was going to, uh,1917.6162 
1951 1919.5815South Dakota.1920.5029 
1953 1921.5464Ellsworth, South Dakota.1923.0109 
1955 1923.9718And so,1924.6003 
1957 1925.7839this other guy was going to, uh,1928.0356 
1959 1930.2012uh, which country was that?1931.5375 
1961 1931.6962Um.1932.3857 
1963 1935.3117Not the Philippines.1936.6481 
1965 1937.6525I forget the name of the country he was going to.1939.7638 
1967 1940.3802So, we s- we changed1941.8779 
1969 1942.0976orders.1942.6895 
1971 1944.0869And I said, well I-1944.8009 
1973 1944.9351I'd like to leave the country, I mean I-1946.8727 
1975 1946.9886I would like that experience, you know?1948.5996 
1977 1949.4289Instead of going up there in all that cold.1951.3877 
1979 1951.5708And he said, you'll swap with me? And I said, uh,1953.9134 
1981 1954.1270yeah. So we s-1954.9874 
1983 1955.4115we got1955.8448 
1985 1956.5465we went over to baseops1957.9317 
1987 1958.0476and they switched our orders, and I was gonna1959.9637 
1989 1960.3115go, uh,1961.0332 
1991 1961.4543<ts>1961.5336 
1993 1961.7105out of the country and he was going to go to Ellsworth.1963.7426 
1995 1964.2368And that was right before1965.5391 
1997 1966.5213<ts> the1967.3207 
1999 1967.7112Vietnam War ended.1968.9439 
2001 1969.0903When they signed the peace treaty.1970.5800 
2003 1971.4038And that's was eliminated me from having to-1973.4602 
2005 1973.7409being able to go outside of the United States.1976.1683 
2007 1976.6077And I ended up getting as-1977.7458 
2009 1977.8983my orders at what they call red line.1980.0096 
2011 1980.2171They red lined my orders, and I ended up having to go to North Carolina.1983.7203 
2012VLD_int_011984.7332Where were you in North Carolina?1985.8476
2013VLD_se0_ag4_m_011986.2442I was in Goldsboro. Goldsboro is-1988.7504
2015 1988.9396North Carolina is about1990.0624 
2017 1990.2454fifty miles1991.2043 
2019 1992.4553east1992.9373 
2021 1993.4621according of what direction of what you're going in, from Charlotte, North- I mean from uh,1996.6605 
2023 1997.8748not Charlotte. Ch- Charlotte's probably1999.7098 
2025 1999.8074two hours.2000.5580 
2027 2000.7960But, Rocky2001.6930 
2029 2001.7967I mean, um,2002.6327 
2031 2003.0471<ts> s-2003.4010 
2033 2003.5780call it, uh,2004.2858 
2035 2006.0246Not Rocky Fort, uh2007.5200 
2037 2007.6786what's the,2008.1725 
2039 2008.4471where Chapel Hill at?2009.5089 
2041 2010.1557Um.2010.5340 
2043 2011.5849It's about [fifty miles.]2012.5979 
2045 2012.6955Rocky Mount.2013.4766
2046VLD_se0_ag4_m_012013.6596Rocky Mount. I mean, Rocky Mount2015.4099
2048 2015.6418is famous for furniture.2017.3748 
2050 2017.8996But, Chapel Hill2018.9247 
2052 2019.1382where the Caroli- I mean, where the Carolina Tar Heels, [um.]2021.5170 
2054VLD_se0_ag4_m_012022.3103It's about fifty [miles from there.]2023.7823
2055VLD_int_012023.4531[From there,] okay.2024.0450
2059VLD_int_012024.9115ninety five?2025.9488
2060VLD_se0_ag4_m_012026.0282Ninety five.2026.6689
2061VLD_int_012026.6689Yep. Okay.2027.2913
2062VLD_se0_ag4_m_012027.4743Yeah, you going up ninety five, you get to uh, Goldsboro, then you2030.8310
2064 2030.9989go on about fifty miles on up,2032.7362 
2066 2032.8034get up2033.2366 
2068 2033.3159to um,2034.0085 
2070 2035.5865like it's right on the tip of my tongue, I can't think of the name of the town.2038.4483 
2072 2038.6955Uh.2039.1044 
2074 2040.0838By the-2040.3340 
2076 2040.4508my s-2040.8461 
2078 2041.8086it's fifty miles from there. [<laughing>]2043.8882 
2079VLD_int_012043.0347[Fifty. Okay.]2043.8882
2081VLD_int_012044.7120And so, you went there. How- how long were you in North Carolina?2046.9582
2083 2047.0406That was two years?2047.9291 
2084VLD_se0_ag4_m_012048.0451I was in North Carolina2049.2759
2086 2049.5871uh,2050.2369 
2088 2050.7526about a little over three years, after2052.2214 
2090 2052.3220tech school.2053.0420 
2092 2053.3990After basic training and technical school.2055.1803 
2094 2055.5070Mm-hm.2055.7999 
2095VLD_int_012056.0074So, did you meet your wife2056.9776
2097 2057.0691there? Or in [Texas?]2058.1187 
2098VLD_se0_ag4_m_012057.8929[No.] She's from Valdosta.2059.0951
2099VLD_int_012059.0951Oh, you had already met- y'all were already [married]2060.8368
2101VLD_int_012061.1297when you went into the mi- but she traveled with you.2062.8688
2105 2064.1499And so, y'all were in North Carolina. How was North Carolina?2066.1712 
2106VLD_se0_ag4_m_012066.6289It was good.2067.3551
2108 2067.4649I li- I met one of the best friends, I c- still got a life time friend I met,2071.5513 
2110 2071.7283um.2072.2653 
2112 2073.4981Back in nineteen-seventy seven, we still friends.2076.4467 
2115VLD_int_012078.4849And then you came back to-2080.3226
2117 2080.5211after that, that's when you2081.4486 
2119 2081.5462then that's when2082.3151 
2121VLD_int_012082.4554[You decided] to leave because you didn't want to [be having] this [remote]2086.0120
2124 2085.3651[Mm.]2086.0059 
2125 2086.2094[Mm-hm.]2086.6244
2127VLD_se0_ag4_m_012086.6976/?/ [Mm-hm.]2087.5275
2128VLD_int_012087.3872[Okay.] And then you came back to Valdosta.2089.2605
2130VLD_int_012090.0538And then at that point, you said, I'm just gonna2091.8924
2132 2092.1731work?2092.6307 
2133VLD_se0_ag4_m_012092.7162Work. Mm-hm.2093.6254
2134VLD_int_012094.0551And so,2094.5834
2136 2095.3706what happened when you2096.4995 
2138 2096.6215came back, how did you- did you work your way up at /RD-WORK-1/?2099.1356 
2139VLD_se0_ag4_m_012099.1356Yeah. Mm-hm.2100.0875
2140 2100.2523I-2100.5391
2142 2100.6306in fact what I2101.4422 
2144 2102.5955<ts> what I do now, and it gr-2104.1474 
2146 2104.3183what I do now, I do at2105.6180 
2148 2105.7828it's the same thing I do, only now, I'm just2107.7078 
2150 2107.9519in charge of it all.2109.0930 
2152 2109.5507[<laugh>]2110.5588 
2154VLD_se0_ag4_m_012110.9372I start off as a shipping clerk.2112.7434
2156 2113.1927And uh, i- d- g- the person that hired me2115.4138 
2158 2115.5603actually was one of the people2116.9638 
2160 2117.7876that moved /RD-WORK-1/ from the2119.6060 
2162 2119.8806when they was i-2120.3246 
2164 2120.4649/RD-WORK-1/ was originally was in New Jersey.2122.7666 
2166 2122.8764Called /RD-WORK-2/ in-2124.0663 
2168 2124.1628industries.2124.9594 
2170 2125.1180So, they moved2125.7648 
2172 2126.0028south2126.6008 
2174 2127.3819and built /RD-WORK-1/. Now, /RD-WORK-1/ is a2130.0982 
2176 2130.2142is a French2131.0013 
2178 2132.0936company.2132.6428 
2180 2133.1721Uh,2133.4711 
2182 2133.5993the French company2134.7282 
2184 2134.9967the original2135.6130 
2186 2135.6984uh, company's in Bordeaux, France.2137.6206 
2188 2138.5359In2139.0546 
2190 2139.3902this year we- last year we2140.8079 
2192 2141.0458celebrated a hundred years in existence.2143.3158 
2194 2143.6148[As a.]2143.9871 
2195VLD_int_012143.6148[So. what] do you ship?2144.5253
2196 2144.6290What- what do you [make?]2145.5992
2198 2145.8338we make, uh2147.0908
2200 2147.5485aviation batteries for all2149.2786 
2202 2149.4006like [Boeing,]2150.1329 
2206 2152.2137Golfstream Aircrafts.2153.9793 
2208 2154.2112Uh. We make military, um2156.8764 
2210 2157.1795<ts>2157.2721 
2212 2157.3722batteries and components.2159.0243 
2214 2159.3355We make2160.0861 
2216 2161.4051Bell South, AT&T,2163.3798 
2218 2163.4896uh, Verizon type batteries for the backup2166.1503 
2220 2166.5287systems2167.4196 
2222 2167.5178for power units.2168.8175 
2224 2168.9579We build2169.7817 
2226 2170.3736batteries for the New York City Transit,2172.5540 
2228 2172.6943uh,2173.2924 
2230 2173.4876trolley cars out in2174.7935 
2232 2174.9704California.2175.8844 
2234 2175.9698We build for2176.8547 
2236 2177.4893Bombardier trains2178.9294 
2238 2179.3045and2179.8232 
2240 2180.6164busses2181.2784 
2242 2181.4082Mm-hm.2181.7937 
2243VLD_int_012182.6084So, this is like2183.4444
2245VLD_int_012183.8959[high] end [stuff.]2184.9577
2247 2185.0614Yeah. [Industrial] type.2186.2330
2249VLD_se0_ag4_m_012186.3978Yeah, yeah.2187.1178
2251 2187.9416[Mm-hm.]2188.1816 
2252VLD_int_012187.9416[And] how many people2188.9321
2253 2189.1884work?2189.6766
2256 2191.7574<ts>2191.8734 
2258 2192.3066At /RD-WORK-1/ as a whole in Valdosta?2194.1893 
2260 2194.4029probably about2194.9869 
2262 2195.0723t- between two fifty and three hundred, once you look at office2198.2393 
2264 2198.5261and um,2199.5024 
2266 2200.1875salary and hourly employees. [Mm-hm.]2202.2501 
2267VLD_int_012202.0670[And] how many people work under you?2203.4522
2268VLD_se0_ag4_m_012203.8610Uh, five.2204.6389
2270 2204.9257Mm-hm.2205.3406 
2271VLD_int_012205.7678And you're like the whole shipping?2207.4462
2275 2209.6918Y'all do all the logistics of shipping?2211.9666 
2276VLD_se0_ag4_m_012212.1374N- the-2212.5768
2278 2212.7747shipping, receiving, and2214.4258 
2280 2214.5174pulling the parts for the components to be built, mm-hm.2217.4647 
2281VLD_int_012218.9530Sound a lot of work for five people.2220.7410
2282VLD_se0_ag4_m_012221.4061Mm. Not really.2222.8279
2284 2223.0048Cau- cause I mean, we just do the actual2225.2260 
2286 2225.4091pulling the2225.8545 
2288 2226.9285pulling the parts and stuff. As far as the shipping,2229.3721 
2290 2229.5735and uh, l- receiving, we just receive the goods in, and somebody else inspect them. We just have to make sure what we receiving2235.6936 
2292 2236.3404and2236.8286 
2294 2237.3778lot of the- the product2238.5674 
2296 2238.8176this one2239.4339 
2298 2239.8245one of the areas2240.8435 
2300 2241.8016<ts> is more-2242.4533 
2302 2242.6594two of the areas is more just like administrative type, and just2245.6189 
2304 2245.7898not actually packing.2247.0290 
2306 2247.3708Cause those department actually pack it up.2249.2319 
2307VLD_int_012249.7230Oh, okay.2250.2355
2308VLD_se0_ag4_m_012250.7176The aviation part,2251.7550
2310 2252.0235we actually2252.6596 
2312 2252.8061pack that part up, cause you dealing with individual batteries and stuff, but2256.5345 
2314 2257.3216the other parts2258.3375 
2316 2258.5450they're packaged, but they're packaged off a line. Where as the aviation, you ha-2262.2704 
2318 2262.3559it goes through the FAA.2264.0980 
2320 2264.6045So, they have to be inspected2266.0572 
2322 2266.2463and you got to make sure you2267.6498 
2324 2267.9244got each boxes serialized separate to make sure you got the right batteries and all that stuff. So, it's a little2272.9359 
2326 2273.1800little more [complex.]2274.2967 
2327VLD_int_012273.9306[That's] a lot.2274.7073
2329VLD_int_012275.7630So, who.2276.7840
2331 2276.8816Okay. So, now you've been there what, say thirty eight years?2279.1699 
2333VLD_int_012279.6825What's your plan?2280.4453
2335 2280.9457Another how many years?2282.3915 
2336VLD_se0_ag4_m_012283.1281Uh. About f- f- four years maybe. Four to five years.2286.5043
2337VLD_int_012286.6914And then what's after that?2287.7104
2338VLD_se0_ag4_m_012289.0956Just traveling.2289.9647
2340 2290.2881N- just having a good [time. (laughing)]2292.1415 
2341VLD_int_012291.7205[Where you] wanna go?2292.5321
2344 2294.9999Anywhere.2295.4916 
2346 2295.6259Cause I mean, I travel a lot now.2297.3162 
2348 2297.4382But I just, um,2298.6304 
2350 2299.1751<ts>2299.2678 
2352 2299.5866for my sixty third birthday,2301.8829 
2354 2302.7555I2303.2070 
2356 2303.5731plan on going to Hawaii.2304.8944 
2358VLD_se0_ag4_m_012306.8349And my favorite2307.9517
2360 2308.1957travel place now is, I like New York.2310.4596 
2361VLD_int_012311.1370Why New York?2312.1847
2363 2312.6241I don't [like] New York.2313.7896 
2365 2314.0093I like goin- I like Manhattan.2316.1499
2367 2316.4428Uh, I like Times Square.2318.2621 
2369 2318.4574Um.2319.0127 
2371 2319.2206I like-2319.7144 
2373 2320.1701I like the Yankees2321.3417 
2375 2321.6179Uh.2322.1472 
2377 2322.9602And I like um,2324.0187 
2379 2324.8364plays.2325.5199 
2381 2326.6915Broadway Plays.2327.5995 
2382VLD_int_012327.9352Where did you go- when you- When's the last time you been to New York?2330.1502
2383VLD_se0_ag4_m_012330.6274Last year.2331.3218
2384VLD_int_012331.4256What'd you see?2331.9626
2387 2332.9779I went to see, um,2334.5983 
2389 2335.3794the play of The Yankees.2336.6547 
2391 2336.8574I went [to-]2337.5165 
2392VLD_int_012337.3138[I don't] care about the [Yankees. <laugh>]2340.1282
2394 2340.3579I went to see uh,2341.5033
2396 2341.7491<ts>. I can't name.2342.5730 
2398 2342.7378It's a2343.2198 
2400 2343.4822remake of2344.2121 
2402 2344.6796The Wiz?2345.3996 
2405VLD_int_012346.4248Was it good?2346.9679
2407 2348.3634And I went to see2350.1101
2409 2350.6062<ts>2350.7423 
2411 2351.1490I saw Gladys Knight2352.5319 
2413 2352.7558and the O'Jays2353.7305 
2415 2353.8891in concert2354.7232 
2417 2355.2018one night.2355.7725 
2419 2356.2893[Mm-hm.]2356.6186 
2420VLD_int_012356.5395[So,] you're get around.2357.7644
2422VLD_int_012358.2298So, you wanna go to Hawaii. Where's another place that you've said, you know what, when I retire, I'm going to this place?2362.9773
2425 2364.4042Thinking about Alaska.2365.5898 
2427 2366.2176Just take a cruise to Alaska.2367.7586 
2428VLD_int_012367.7586I have been wanting to do that.2368.9044
2430VLD_int_012369.1591[Like it's] on my list.2370.1952
2432VLD_int_012370.6254[Have] you s-2370.9971
2433 2371.1859so, have you been out of the country?2372.3449
2434VLD_se0_ag4_m_012372.9025Yeah, I've been, um2374.5975
2436 2375.3482several cruises. I went to Mexico2377.7481 
2438 2378.0773and the [Baha-]2378.8061 
2439VLD_int_012378.4154[Did you like] it?2379.1793
2442 2379.8993Took a seven day cruise2381.1402 
2444 2382.2202Mexico. Then I took a cruise to um,2384.8720 
2446 2385.6534Puerto Rico, Haiti, and um,2387.8997 
2448 2388.5319Saint Thomas.2389.4407 
2451 2390.5032I want you to go to Cape Town.2392.3368 
2453VLD_int_012392.9470Like, well, any part of South Africa. But, especially Cape Town.2395.6646
2455VLD_int_012396.3715Amazing. So beautiful.2398.0003
2457VLD_int_012398.2797[You have] to go.2399.0612
2458VLD_se0_ag4_m_012399.5090We have um.2400.2054
2459VLD_int_012400.5303That's a long flight though.2401.4435
2460VLD_se0_ag4_m_012401.5708My wife2402.1810
2462 2402.4225went to VSU with uh,2404.0196 
2464 2404.4191with a student, her name is /RD-NAME-3/2406.4738 
2466 2407.1279and she was from Mo-2408.0982 
2468 2408.3089Mozambique.2409.1606 
2470VLD_se0_ag4_m_012410.1250And she's been-2411.0908
2472 2411.3499she's invited us to come2412.8689 
2474 2412.9348to Africa, and we2413.8567 
2476 2413.9753think2414.2167 
2478 2414.3265we gon- we gonna make it.2415.5718 
2481 2416.0767We gonna go.2416.7308
2483 2416.8011Cause [she um.]2417.7011 
2485VLD_se0_ag4_m_012418.1094She was the smartest thing in the world. I mean, as far as math.2421.2645
2487 2421.3742And uh.2421.9757 
2489 2422.7484And she helped my wife a lot.2424.0743 
2491 2424.1752You know,2424.5396 
2493 2424.6977to get through2425.3738 
2495 2425.4748math.2425.9533 
2497 2426.9220And2427.3523 
2499 2427.7123more or less, she started calling me daddy [/RD-NAME-1/ and mama /RD-NAME-2/. (laughing) So.]2431.7294 
2501VLD_se0_ag4_m_012432.4055Her parents came over. In fact,2434.0503
2503 2434.2040when she got ready to move,2435.4234 
2505 2435.5858um,2436.0688 
2507 2436.2674my2436.4035 
2509 2436.4842company allowed me to um,2438.1289 
2511 2438.4461pack her stuff up2439.4778 
2513 2439.7467[and uh,]2440.4009 
2514VLD_int_012439.8367[<ts> Mm.]2440.4009
2515VLD_se0_ag4_m_012440.5084ship it over to Africa. Yeah.2442.4461
2517 2442.9538At a discount. On the company's discount.2445.2850 
2519 2445.4211Yeah.2445.7065 
2520VLD_int_012445.7592That's sweet.2446.3299
2522VLD_int_012447.4259So, <ts> I'm gonna repor- I'm gonna2449.7835
2524 2449.9987follow up with you and [see] when you-2452.0006 
2526 2452.0621[Mm-hm.]2452.3606
2527VLD_int_012452.2728make it over [to]2453.7596
2529VLD_int_012454.1459Mozambique and [South Africa.] It's gonna be an [amazing experience. So beautiful.] Oh [my god so beautiful.]2460.1535
2532 2455.7017[Yeah.]2455.9344 
2534 2456.9486[Mm.]2457.2120 
2536 2457.6115[Mm.]2457.7740 
2538 2458.3447[Oh.]2458.5423 
2540 2459.2008[Mm.]2459.3808 
2542 2459.9164[Yeah.]2460.1403 
2543VLD_int_012460.5355Okay. So,2461.5130
2545 2462.1232let's talk about a couple of other things.2464.7179 
2548 2466.7095You talked about your best friend. So, when you were in school,2469.3305
2550 2469.9540who were- did you have like a2471.1086 
2552 2471.2623t- close friends?2472.1842 
2553VLD_se0_ag4_m_012474.1847No, um.2474.9135
2555 2475.0935I guess m-2475.5720 
2557 2475.7169my c- I had a couple guys I-2477.4203 
2559 2477.7408my cousin, my first cousin and I was good friends,2480.3383 
2561 2480.4613and then we had another friend, but.2482.0110 
2563 2482.9111I had a-2483.3633 
2565 2483.7320I always been um,2484.7359 
2567VLD_se0_ag4_m_012485.2056liking a lo-2485.8203
2568 2485.9871hm.2486.1057
2570 2486.5535Uh.2486.8520 
2572 2487.6774Gun-slinger like,2488.8057 
2574 2488.9330lone ra- uh, single2490.4608 
2576 2490.5969guy.2490.8939 
2578 2491.3813Fact,2491.6798 
2580 2491.8247You know what. Something my grandaddy shared with me.2493.9013 
2582 2494.4764<ts>2494.5642 
2584 2494.9857He said,2495.5037 
2586 2496.4125<ts>2496.4959 
2588 2496.6876when I got my car, he said,2498.2857 
2590 2498.5710son, I'm'a give you some good advice.2500.4149 
2592 2501.3852He said, see that door over there? I say, yes sir.2503.6096 
2594 2503.9827He said2504.7247 
2596 2505.0979you can keep it locked, or you can keep it open.2507.1393 
2598 2507.8374He said, lemme give you an illustration. He said, in the wild, wild west,2511.1619 
2600 2512.2199<ts> they had2513.0058 
2602 2513.7697<ts>2513.8839 
2604 2514.0463what they called shotgun riders2515.8448 
2606 2516.0687on the stage coach2517.1619 
2608 2517.3946in order to protect the-2518.2682 
2610 2518.5492the person that's driving.2519.6995 
2612 2520.6971He said, now you don't-2521.6849 
2614 2521.8210you can protect yourself by keeping that door locked [on the other side. (laughing)]2525.6713 
2616VLD_se0_ag4_m_012526.1191[He saw the s-] or he'd say, be careful who you let sit in that seat on the other side. (laughing)2530.3624
2617 2530.5029So,2530.7795
2619 2531.3546I-2531.5434 
2621 2531.7717I2532.1624 
2623 2532.3381always just been that-2533.5483 
2625 2533.6185My mom was2534.3956 
2627 2534.9751more of like2535.5897 
2629 2535.7566a2535.9980 
2631 2537.2317loner.2537.9210 
2633 2538.0351I mean I2538.3864 
2635 2538.5093guess you-2538.8210 
2637 2539.0565um.2539.3990 
2639 2540.3561I guess you2540.7117 
2641 2540.8214like a loner, just.2541.6512 
2643 2542.4151And I- I-2543.1351 
2645 2543.4600I feel comfortable just-2544.5927 
2647 2545.6668just having my own space.2546.9960 
2649 2547.1057I- I don't li-2548.0013 
2651 2548.1901I don't really enjoy crowds that much.2550.2184 
2653 2550.3896To a certain extent,2551.3233 
2655 2552.1355I can enjoy it for a while, and then I just have to get back in my comfort zone.2555.7970 
2657 2556.1701You know?2556.4906 
2660 2557.8896So,2558.4603 
2662 2558.6535who was this friend that you met in, you said seventy-seven?2561.9462 
2663VLD_se0_ag4_m_012562.3106Yeah, his name is /RD-NAME-4/.2564.4559
2665 2565.0881I met AJ- AJ2566.5413 
2667 2566.7433as um.2567.3360 
2669 2568.2009<ts>2568.2887 
2671 2568.5082His mom, Ms. /RD-NAME-2/2569.8852 
2673 2570.3681and he had a sister named /RD-NAME-2/.2572.2560 
2675 2572.6687And AJ lived about2573.8892 
2677 2575.1846Kinston, North Carolina. If you've heard of Kinston. But, Kinston is about2578.6075 
2679 2578.8227twenty five miles from Goldsboro.2580.7500 
2681 2581.9734And he was able to-2583.0753 
2683 2583.6592he was in the military. He was from Kinston2585.7841 
2685 2585.9598but, he got stationed at Goldsboro. So, he was right there at home.2589.0753 
2687 2590.5153So, I met him and he said, man I'm gonna introduce you to my mom and my um,2594.4355 
2689 2595.6721<ts> sister.2596.4052 
2691 2596.9452Cause his dad died when he was I think- AJ was2599.3599 
2693 2600.2740um,2600.6559 
2695 2600.9238probably about2601.3891 
2697 2601.4725f-2601.6086 
2699 2601.7843three or four. Something like that2603.0574 
2701VLD_se0_ag4_m_012603.2419[when] his dad died.2604.0981
2702 2604.9761And, um,2605.4854
2704 2605.6039I met his mom,2606.6927 
2706 2606.8244and um became good friends with her and, um,2609.4351 
2708 2609.9971and she always told me, she said, you're always welcome,2612.3854 
2710 2612.7191you know, even when if /RD-NAME-2/'s not here. You know.2614.7079 
2712 2614.9873There's a room, you know, you come, stay if you in t-2617.2747 
2714 2617.4415town, or whatever, you don't wanna go back to the base, you know.2620.0010 
2716 2620.6727You always welcome in.2621.6772 
2718 2622.0190So I bec-2622.5503 
2720 2622.8576befriended them. They f- I guess they befriended me.2625.4742 
2722 2625.7420And2626.1986 
2724 2626.5630I was2626.9566 
2726 2627.0619friends with him and his s- what' different is him and his sister.2629.8498 
2728 2630.5259Keep in touch with 'em, texting 'em all the time. Just2633.1585 
2730 2633.3561checking on them, cause his mom2634.8356 
2732 2635.5117passed,2636.1483 
2734 2636.5434about f-2637.0264 
2736 2637.5137I think my mom passed in twenty-fifteen. So, his mom2641.0595 
2738 2642.7981think2643.1625 
2740 2643.4610passed in twenty-fourteen I think.2645.8698 
2742 2646.2868And, um,2646.7259 
2744 2646.8093So, we just been good friends over the years and.2649.1449 
2746 2649.7420/RD-NAME-2/ got in some trouble. Once we got out of m-2652.4405 
2748 2652.5678military.2653.4942 
2750 2653.9376And I would, um-2654.9561 
2752 2655.0835He had two boys.2656.1240 
2754 2657.1454And I had two girls.2658.2078 
2756 2658.5064And um.2659.0859 
2758 2660.0166<ts> I would always, you know,2661.7947 
2760 2663.2551ta- I mean send stuff for him. You know,2665.3476 
2762 2665.5408just cheering him wife and stuff, you know and- and2668.0147 
2764VLD_se0_ag4_m_012668.5591And that's what friends do.2669.6201
2765VLD_int_012669.6201That's right.2670.1119
2766VLD_se0_ag4_m_012670.2698Do. You know.2670.9679
2768 2671.5298Wasn't nothing that they had to ask, you know, I just knew that2673.8710 
2770 2674.1344The- they was gonna have needs, you know.2676.0295 
2772 2676.1392So,2676.4070 
2774 2676.9822/??/2677.2895 
2776 2677.7592just always try to work them in to where I-2679.8446 
2778 2679.9632what I had, you know?2680.9714 
2779VLD_int_012682.9119What do you think2683.8734
2781 2684.9490mm.2685.1949 
2783 2685.3705Well, let's go back, since you just said that.2686.9282 
2785 2688.3052Has there ever been a time when you were like, oh my god, I'm going to die?2691.9535 
2787VLD_int_012692.2872[Or] you felt like you were just in imminent danger?2694.2365
2790 2700.2409Mm. No.2701.3692 
2792 2701.5755No, I never experienced that.2702.8779 
2793VLD_int_012704.1643Really? Was there a time when you were just really scared?2706.1355
2795 2707.2023Something that i-2707.8828 
2797 2708.2516and it couldn't not have necessarily been just like you were physically scared of something, it could have just been something that was just2712.0345 
2799 2713.0179emotionally traumatizing or.2715.4223 
2802 2723.7228You know d- t-2724.1882 
2804 2725.4833it might be2726.1023 
2806 2726.6552sk-2727.0815 
2808 2727.6594crazy or strange,2728.9413 
2810 2729.5604but,2729.8721 
2812 2730.6096<ts>2730.7150 
2814 2731.6018when my mom died, it was2733.0930 
2816 2733.5320I mean, that's expectations. There a sense as a kid, you know your parents are older than you are.2737.8697 
2818 2738.8647My dad died.2739.7867 
2820 2740.0194Pretty much.2740.7086 
2822 2741.3408My brother died in November2743.0778 
2824 2743.2929last year.2743.9646 
2826 2746.1582And that's been the most traumatizing thing to me2748.6870 
2828 2749.6265in my life.2750.5474 
2830 2751.4415And I- and I-2752.2800 
2832 2753.5708And I guess I assess it back to2755.3532 
2834 2756.3850I knew2756.8811 
2836 2757.1781uh.2757.7532 
2838 2758.2197<ts>2758.3420 
2840 2759.6849When I was speaking at the funeral,2761.0371 
2844 2763.0259I got assess it back to2764.7981 
2846 2765.5664I could just remember my mom2767.0284 
2848 2767.1908/praying/ with my brother.2768.3630 
2850 2769.0918And uh.2769.8015 
2852 2772.1547And throughout the years, I can remember my mama always just2774.8811 
2854 2775.4634telling me, you know, even when he was smaller,2777.7771 
2856 2777.9396you know, that uh,2778.7781 
2858 2779.6825take care of him.2780.5283 
2860 2780.6820You know, and.2781.3054 
2862 2782.6137And back then, those the2783.7903 
2864 2783.9044back in them-2784.4357 
2866 2784.5893when I grew up,2785.3269 
2868 2785.6650we kids2786.3894 
2870 2786.6089when your parents went off,2787.8015 
2872 2787.9420you know, the-2788.2844 
2874 2788.5171the oldest was always left in charge. You know.2790.6552 
2876 2790.8045And um,2791.3884 
2878 2792.4552And my mom would come home, and she would say, well how di- how did he do today? And- an-2796.1020 
2880 2796.6859and I would always say, mama, he did good, even though he [didn't, you know? Cause. <laugh>]2800.8727 
2882VLD_se0_ag4_m_012801.6718/I was/, uh,2802.2820
2884 2802.6464my brother had that Frank Sinatra2804.6616 
2886 2805.2531mentality, he's just gonna do it his [way.]2807.4746 
2890 2808.9526[So],2809.3872 
2891 2809.8877I would always cover for him, and I guess2811.8546
2893 2812.3024his whole life, even h- he-2814.0131 
2895 2814.2458he went down a path that, um,2816.1292 
2897 2817.2312that I didn't go down, as far as2818.9873 
2899 2819.7277things he shouldn't have g-2820.6936 
2901 2821.0360got involved with, you know, and-2822.5770 
2903 2822.6999and that was just- just his choice. You know?2824.6361 
2905 2824.7283And um.2825.2639 
2907 2826.4741And.2827.1019 
2909 2828.5595And I've just.2829.2136 
2911 2830.2190That's2830.4868 
2913 2830.6800that's been the hardest thing on me.2832.3643 
2917 2834.2653my- my baby- my young brother.2836.2804 
2919 2837.0663uh, I s-2837.5872 
2921 2838.4433if you s-2838.8736 
2923 2839.6024speaking of traumatizing, in a sense,2841.8107 
2925 2842.8292is death.2843.5302 
2927 2844.0702It's been the2844.8297 
2929 2845.5453most2845.9799 
2931 2846.3970/traumatize/ thing to me I ever dealt with.2848.7766 
2932VLD_int_012848.9566He died last November?2850.1667
2933VLD_se0_ag4_m_012850.7155November the fifth.2851.6990
2935 2851.7824Mm-hm. Twenty-eighteen.2853.0424 
2936VLD_int_012853.4726So, that's still really new.2854.7019
2939 2855.1585Mm-hm.2855.6311 
2941 2856.1426[Mm-hm.]2856.4818 
2942VLD_int_012856.3105[Was] he sick? Or he just.2857.6704
2943VLD_se0_ag4_m_012857.9646Yeah, my brother, um,2859.4661
2945 2859.9139<ts> My brother got involved with2861.3436 
2947 2862.6782<ts>2862.7924 
2949 2863.2446with drugs.2864.1226 
2951VLD_se0_ag4_m_012864.9173And um.2865.6153
2953 2867.0027He-2867.6377 
2955 2869.3060heart conditions.2870.3948 
2957 2871.5143And n-2872.0280 
2959 2872.1202he never really2873.5060 
2961 2874.0724fully s-2874.6387 
2963 2875.5563committed to2876.5002 
2965 2876.8207doing2877.2509 
2967 2877.9797treating himself better.2879.2426 
2969 2879.6070You know.2880.0416 
2971 2881.0294He was-2881.6309 
2973 2883.4661kept2883.7909 
2975 2884.5944playing the victim.2885.5631 
2977 2885.7826You know, versus investing2887.4070 
2979 2887.5870in- in himself, you know.2888.9699 
2981 2889.2202There was a way out,2890.3194 
2983 2890.6487better way out, but2891.7886 
2985 2892.9565he never did.2893.7423 
2987 2894.2252Mm-hm.2894.6335 
2988VLD_int_012895.0199Yeah. That happens.2896.1965
2991 2896.9062[So.]2897.2794 
2992VLD_int_012897.0379[It was] so. I2897.7667
2993 2897.9599you know, I'm doing the same kind of thing in [DC], and you know in DC, there was this [big] drug2902.4775
2996 2901.5950[Mm.]2901.8584 
2997 2902.5784Mm-hm.2902.8945
2998VLD_int_012903.3584in the eighties and [nineties. And um.]2905.8477
3001 2904.9427[Mm.]2905.2720 
3002VLD_int_012906.4448Some of the stories you hear are just so sad.2908.9598
3004 2909.0784[Right?] Because you want2910.1920 
3006VLD_int_012911.3993you know that people wanna do better,2912.9491
3008VLD_int_012913.5374but then they also2914.3276
3010 2915.2672this is what they know.2916.1364 
3012VLD_int_012916.5564[And so] trying to balance2917.9218
3015 2917.9218Mm-hm.2918.3784 
3016VLD_int_012918.4837that out, it's it's really tough.2919.9369
3018VLD_int_012920.5087And then just to watch it. [And I]2922.3307
3020VLD_int_012922.6117was talking to one guy and he2924.4085
3022 2924.6412got AIDS2925.6642 
3026 2927.0647he was really deep into the heroin game.2929.0914 
3030 2930.0441him and his brother both got AIDS at the same, like around the same time. [And] his brother, he was like I'm gonna commit to doing better2934.6788 
3032VLD_int_012935.0519and the brother didn't. So, he had to bury his brother, and [I think] that2937.9188
3034VLD_int_012938.3798when you said that, it just2939.2095
3036 2939.5915puts you in that2940.0663 
3038 2940.1629place that2940.6546 
3040 2941.6117you know you want something different.2943.1000 
3042 2943.1834But,2943.3722 
3044VLD_int_012943.8815you hav-2944.2107
3046 2944.2810you have to w-2944.8386 
3047VLD_se0_ag4_m_012944.9834[Well, yeah.]2945.6113
3048VLD_int_012945.0142[they have to want it] like, [you can't] want it for them.2947.2254
3049VLD_se0_ag4_m_012946.1278[Well, yeah.]2946.7117
3051 2947.2254Right. Mm-hm.2948.0332 
3052VLD_int_012948.1649And it's just- that's tough.2949.5566
3056 2951.4049So, let me kind of go back. Cause you were young enough2954.7338 
3058 2954.8436but o-2955.2607 
3060 2955.4099you were old enough rather2956.5762 
3062 2956.6421[to understand.]2957.3489 
3064VLD_int_012957.6299Thinking about civil rights.2958.9162
3066VLD_int_012959.4519And, Valdosta's a little southern [town.]2961.6338
3068VLD_int_012961.9412How did you-2963.1601
3070 2963.6167were you at a time when there was like the2965.1709 
3072 2965.2938sep-2965.6143 
3074 2965.7855the separate fountains and things like that? Did you see the signs? Or was [it.]2969.2172 
3075VLD_se0_ag4_m_012969.0855[Yeah.] I could remember2969.9679
3076 2970.0909as a kid, growing up.2971.3860
3077VLD_int_012971.6231How was that?2972.2685
3079 2972.6460Like what?2973.1290 
3081 2973.6382Was it?2973.9791 
3084 2977.6811It was crazy.2978.5977 
3086 2978.8787But you know what?2979.6338 
3088 2983.0041Prior to integration,2984.2202 
3090 2985.7260<ts> you know where the overpass is now?2987.4543 
3093 2988.4640[provisional] one?2989.0962 
3095 2989.4387Mm. The one2990.1543
3097 2990.9533overpass downtown.2992.1279 
3099VLD_se0_ag4_m_012993.7014What we called2994.5800
3101 2995.4996beneath the overpass was Crane Avenue.2997.7064 
3103 2997.8820Right there where2998.7732 
3105 2998.8523the old- I mean the unemployment office and all that stuff is [now.]3002.0352 
3107VLD_se0_ag4_m_013002.7947All those businesses,3003.7547
3109 3003.9698all that3004.3562 
3111 3004.8303space down there was black owned businesses.3007.3372 
3113 3009.0889And,3009.7240 
3115 3010.7162black people describe, /describe/3012.4898 
3117 3013.5347back in those days, cause3014.8343 
3119 3015.6949basically3016.3710 
3121 3017.5520our money3018.2149 
3123 3019.4486made it's- made surplus within the neighborhood.3022.0241 
3125 3022.1998You know?3022.5861 
3127 3023.6793Versus3024.4256 
3129 3024.5969now,3025.0227 
3131 3025.1193know, we just consumers.3026.4496 
3133 3026.6691You know?3026.9676 
3137 3027.6158we don't own nothing. Our money just spend it3029.9383 
3139 3030.1008lo- it's spent in one t-3031.6637 
3141 3031.7471spent out, it never spends in, you [know (laughing)]3034.0703 
3143VLD_se0_ag4_m_013034.4039within the community.3035.7407
3145 3036.7505So, um3037.7208 
3147 3038.5198<ts>3038.6120 
3149 3040.0088Even though we was3040.9351 
3151 3041.5717separate,3042.3005 
3153 3043.7346they was better off3044.9156 
3155 3045.1263in a s- in a sense, cause3046.4961 
3157 3047.2600now, this is just my philosophy.3048.8537 
3161 3052.4610I think we look at it3053.5893 
3163 3053.8395um3054.3795 
3165 3055.1595<ts>3055.2341 
3167 3055.9454we didn't3056.8059 
3169 3057.6839actually understand the extent of what3059.8483 
3171 3060.2610integration was doing to us.3061.9936 
3173 3062.7883I think it,3063.3371 
3175 3063.4820um,3064.0351 
3177 3065.2117<ts>3065.2776 
3179 3066.5244from a economic standpoint,3068.0639 
3181 3068.9024and-3069.1746 
3183 3069.3634and it's always about economics.3071.0186 
3185 3071.4620You know. That [I mean the-]3072.6913 
3186VLD_int_013071.8483[It all makes sense.]3072.8713
3187VLD_se0_ag4_m_013072.8142[You] know. A- and3073.6494
3188 3074.4791And I th-3074.7865
3190 3074.9094guess3075.2913 
3192 3075.4274wh- when you've been shut out so much of3077.7850 
3194 3078.6148what you've perceived3079.9216 
3196 3080.3869to be, um,3081.3704 
3198 3083.2231validated3084.1406 
3200 3084.3382as a people,3085.1489 
3202 3086.0840um, you go from3087.4494 
3204 3087.6162being kidnapped,3088.7451 
3206 3089.5573to being,3090.2422 
3208 3090.3739you know,3090.7207 
3210 3090.8980bought over here3091.8842 
3212 3092.3277and being enslaved3093.5394 
3214 3094.3077and3094.8696 
3216 3095.7828you being3096.6565 
3218 3097.5345told you was free, but you're not free.3099.4560 
3220 3100.9267And then you s-3101.6379 
3222 3101.7740y- y- you still within your own3103.6691 
3224 3104.4506communities. k-3105.2145 
3226 3105.4823I mean, you're not really mingling with the other-3107.7257 
3228 3108.0243other3108.4501 
3230 3109.0867people.3109.5330 
3232 3112.1848We-3112.8257 
3234 3114.0814we bought a sense of3115.1219 
3236 3115.5725integration as3116.9950 
3238 3117.5965acceptance.3118.4526 
3240 3119.1506I guess we had to be accepted. For someone to just verbally tell you that you accept, that you can come in the restaurant, you can do this, you can do that.3126.1516 
3242 3126.8980But then, at the same time,3128.5761 
3244 3129.2785when that acceptance came, we gave up3131.4210 
3246 3132.4307our strength,3133.2370 
3248 3134.0317which was our economics.3135.4893 
3250 3135.9634You know.3136.2444 
3252 3136.9907Um.3137.5132 
3254 3137.6537Even our3138.2683 
3256 3138.3781cultures in the school3139.6014 
3258 3139.9087s- school system.3140.9756 
3260 3141.4541When- when the schools integrated,3143.1356 
3262 3145.8209you can't go back and,3146.9756 
3264 3147.7702unless you was3148.5122 
3266 3149.3859um,3149.8073 
3268 3150.0093from my age on up,3151.3073 
3270 3152.8658know anything about Pinevale.3154.4419 
3272 3155.4385The history of Pinevale.3156.5449 
3274 3156.9868The history of Westside high school.3158.5278 
3276 3159.0502It's all about Lowndes.3160.2356 
3278 3160.6702It's all about Valdosta.3161.8117 
3280 3162.5142But, there was a history prior to those schools. Which was, Westside was a county school,3166.4156 
3282 3167.0434and Val- I mean, Pinevale was a city school.3169.4361 
3284 3170.6372But,3170.8743 
3286 3171.0587all that history3172.1240 
3288 3172.2206is gone. Wiped out. And is nonexistent. Unless you like I said, unless you was-3176.6284 
3290 3176.8436my age or older, doesn't know that those things existed.3179.6957 
3292 3180.3543And, by the same token, when it comes to, um,3182.9006 
3294 3183.8781economics in Valdosta,3185.3752 
3296 3185.8274wasn't a lot of money, but if you look at the stores,3188.5406 
3298 3188.8699the stores that you see in Valdosta now.3190.8221 
3300 3192.3631We-3192.8240 
3302 3192.9206we don't wanna populate those stores in our community3195.4918 
3304 3197.2238economically.3198.1062 
3306 3198.4091But, we don't own none of 'em.3199.6764 
3308VLD_se0_ag4_m_013200.5150You know?3200.8618
3310 3201.4589But, back then, those same stores,3203.8648 
3312 3205.4461was owned by us.3206.5146 
3314 3207.7526So, you was able to,3208.7800 
3316 3209.3244uh, go in those stores3210.6239 
3318 3210.7468in the community, the ladies know you, the men know you.3213.2741 
3320 3213.7834And so, i- it was a-3214.8985 
3322 3215.3770we was more economically3216.9356 
3324 3217.5107um,3218.1326 
3326 3218.5146intense3219.2302 
3328 3219.4278back then3220.1170 
3330 3220.5517versus now.3221.3024 
3332 3221.8688Because now,3222.6151 
3334 3222.8917all we, like I said, all we all the3224.2512 
3336 3224.3785consumers.3225.0721 
3338 3225.3004And when they built that overpass,3226.8414 
3340 3227.2761and if you go in any major city in this country,3229.4756 
3342 3230.3916Savannah, anywhere.3231.5024 
3344 3232.3234And you3232.7800 
3346 3232.8546can3233.1048 
3348 3233.2278talk to anyone in those communities,3234.8478 
3350 3235.7083when those overpass was built,3237.6648 
3352 3238.1697it just3238.6219 
3354 3238.9336the-3239.0961 
3356 3239.2585the3239.4297 
3358 3239.5746decline3240.2595 
3360 3240.6722of the black communities in those areas,3242.5585 
3362 3243.0897just3243.3795 
3364 3243.5507went down, stores and everything.3245.5570 
3366 3246.1278But the-3246.4571 
3368 3246.9663but, as far as integration goes,3248.5058 
3370 3248.5892overall,3249.1687 
3372 3249.7921I think that's the- been the biggest /clux/. But,3252.0268 
3374 3252.2858far as3252.7819 
3376 3253.2517seeing the signs and all that stuff, to me,3255.5287 
3378 3256.6965even now, y- you3257.8029 
3380 3260.2380I3260.5234 
3382 3260.7999always been3261.6385 
3384 3262.2443/could just/3262.8195 
3386 3263.1663people could say3264.1497 
3388 3264.4922you can see all these signs, and I mean, you can s- you can see all this stuff,3268.2180 
3390 3269.5000but,3269.8907 
3392 3270.3297again, it has to get back to the-3271.9991 
3394 3272.1440to the individual person.3273.2225 
3396 3273.5518The- e-3274.2235 
3398 3274.5132what a-3274.8337 
3400 3275.0884what a person s-3276.0894 
3402 3276.6250what a person say, don't really have to make you-3279.0118 
3404 3279.3410you don't have to be that.3280.4518 
3406 3280.9215You know?3281.2201 
3408 3282.1157I think sometime we- we, um,3284.0913 
3410 3285.1084we-3285.3015 
3412 3285.5606we take on3286.5089 
3414 3287.0137another person poison.3288.4801 
3416VLD_se0_ag4_m_013289.7928when we shouldn't3290.7060
3418 3290.8289because,3291.3674 
3420 3291.4947what a person say about you don't define you.3293.8479 
3422 3294.4142But, you can take what that person say about you and get so engrossed in it3298.5176 
3424 3299.0840that it becomes3299.9050 
3426 3300.2298part of you. In- instead of you in-3301.8630 
3428 3302.1352instead of you3302.8728 
3430 3303.3304moving a nege-3304.0636 
3432 3304.2041on entertaining negative,3305.3851 
3434 3305.8987my mama always told me,3307.3256 
3436 3308.1817/RD-NAME-1/, you have one responsibility,3310.0021 
3438 3310.2085that's how you treat people.3311.5739 
3440 3312.0919How they treat you is not your responsibility.3314.3397 
3442 3314.7041You don't act on that.3315.7914 
3444 3315.8792You act on3316.7485 
3446 3316.9504positive. You always entertain positive.3319.0017 
3448 3319.2509The negative,3319.8349 
3450 3319.9358you know it's negative,3320.9105 
3452 3321.0685don't entertain that.3321.8840 
3454 3322.5601Invest in your positive.3323.7542 
3456 3323.9737If you invest in your positive, you gonna invest in you.3326.3181 
3458 3327.3449you not gonna get a return out a3328.9859 
3460 3329.5830negative.3330.1230 
3462 3330.4259but you gonna get one out of a positive.3332.1864 
3464 3332.4455So,3332.7776 
3466 3332.9839don't entertain negative.3334.0903 
3468 3334.1825You know?3334.4942 
3470 3335.0210It's not your responsibility.3336.4654 
3472 3336.7991Just do what you know the right thing to do.3338.7396 
3474 3340.2138You'll be better off, no matter what you see going on around you.3343.0537 
3476 3343.6157She said,3344.1338 
3478 3344.3884it always come back to you, you got to invest in yourself.3347.2890 
3479VLD_int_013347.7542Do you feel like you've lived that3349.0274
3480VLD_se0_ag4_m_013349.5235<ts> [Yeah.]3349.9538
3481VLD_int_013349.6772[if your] life?3350.2040
3484 3351.7566Yeah.3351.9981 
3486 3352.3405I try- that's my first thought every day.3354.4128 
3488 3355.4533Praying to my God.3356.5552 
3490 3357.3966And3357.7435 
3492 3357.9235taking in,3358.4942 
3494 3358.6166insight what my mama always told me.3360.5752 
3496 3361.2557It's not3361.8528 
3498 3363.1327I bl- I-3363.5410 
3500 3363.6419I-3364.0502 
3502 3364.1380I had a concept that if anybody gonna be hurt,3366.7810 
3504 3367.5844I can take it.3368.2605 
3506 3368.3878Let it be me.3369.0815 
3508 3369.2073If you-3369.5278 
3510 3369.7473if you have to cast your3371.0205 
3512 3371.4463ugliness3372.1620 
3514 3372.3464l-3372.5307 
3516 3372.7722toward me, that's fine.3374.0717 
3518 3375.3171/But the-/3375.6071 
3520 3376.1336I just3376.6341 
3522 3377.0161I won't never3377.7493 
3524 3378.2059cast my positive3379.3254 
3526 3380.0059which is positive3380.8927 
3528 3381.3653towards you for ha-3382.3663 
3530 3382.5244for negative.3383.4683 
3533 3387.3697Wa- are you a big-3388.5595 
3535 3389.3059well, yes, cause I know, cause you come from church, but I'm gonna ask you anyway.3391.6459 
3537 3392.1639Um.3392.8796 
3539 3393.0113Are you a big church,3394.4849 
3541 3394.9415religious, spiritual person?3396.3420 
3543VLD_int_013398.6864Did you grow up in church?3399.7649
3544VLD_se0_ag4_m_013401.8283Uh, somewhat. My mom was always involved with church, I-3405.0727
3546 3405.3302I was in church,3406.2654 
3548 3406.3576but I mean, you-3406.8932 
3550 3407.6044you sort of3408.2805 
3552 3408.5132as you get older, you sort of, you know, st- stray away from it, but you know.3412.7176 
3554 3413.4683But, I- I am3414.3288 
3556 3414.6976a3415.0488 
3558 3415.5098big proponent of-3416.4449 
3560 3416.9849of church.3417.6683 
3563 3420.0259When did we meet?3420.9347 
3565 3421.6151I think I was.3422.6732 
3566VLD_se0_ag4_m_013422.8005Probably you might have been the sixth grade, maybe.3425.2356
3568 3425.9468Junior?3426.4342 
3570 3426.5527What year? I don't [know. No, I think] you [wa-]3428.5707 
3573 3428.4610[When] I3429.1063 
3574 3429.3374cause when I moved here, my mom didn't move here yet.3431.5062
3577 3434.2151I met you at Antioch. You [was probably] in3436.5024 
3579VLD_se0_ag4_m_013436.7351[junior] high school maybe?3438.0478
3582 3437.9894[Mm.]3438.5439 
3583 3438.6449[It may] have been like fifth [grade.]3440.1387
3586 3439.9297[Gra-] yeah. Fifth grade. [Yeah.]3441.3811 
3589VLD_int_013442.2123[Cause] I moved here in the fourth [grade]3443.9941
3591VLD_int_013444.6593I going with my3445.4449
3593 3445.6707grandma, but we didn't go as often, and then when my mom came,3448.7166 
3595 3449.3965we went all the time. So, yeah. Probably fifth [grade,] so [it's been a long time.]3453.9363 
3598 3452.0870[Mm-hm.]3452.4775 
3600 3452.9168[Long.]3453.2036 
3602 3453.8435[Mm-hm.]3454.3438 
3605 3455.6924I just remember3456.5166 
3607 3457.2611um,3457.7492 
3609 3458.1398what that your- what was your home church?3460.0131 
3610VLD_se0_ag4_m_013461.3412My original church was Antioch.3463.4464
3612 3463.7332I mean uh,3464.4105 
3614 3464.5021Hosanna.3465.2099 
3616 3465.8086[That's my mom and them church]3467.1144 
3618VLD_se0_ag4_m_013467.3134[Down] in Lake Park.3468.2043
3620 3468.4972And the how'd you end up at Antioch?3469.6444
3623 3471.4339My wife church. That was they family church.3474.0756 
3625 3474.3799Okay. [Well, that's]3475.1549
3627VLD_int_013475.3197an- and then now where do you go?3476.6804
3628VLD_se0_ag4_m_013477.1381I'm a m-3477.5183
3630 3477.6098um, church at Pine Hill.3479.4648 
3631VLD_int_013479.7211[Oh. Mm-hm.]3480.5083
3637 3482.8821Couple last, last couple questions for you.3485.0144 
3639 3485.4965Um.3486.1189 
3641 3486.2715If you could leave one piece of advice,3488.5562 
3643VLD_int_013489.9048to anyone,3490.4575
3645 3490.6371it could be3491.4033 
3647 3493.4781to your kids, it could be just any, some youth, it could be just anybody. What would that piece of advice be and who would you leave it to?3499.4578 
3648VLD_se0_ag4_m_013500.5128Mm. <ts> I would list3501.9285
3650 3504.0130to the world,3504.7513 
3652VLD_se0_ag4_m_013505.5934What my mom always told me.3507.2983
3653 3507.9451I have one responsibility3509.5988
3655 3510.6494of how I treat people.3512.0346 
3657 3512.2237Not how they treat me.3513.3680 
3659 3514.0332That's-3514.5518 
3661 3515.4794That's the greatest3516.3093 
3663 3516.5839other than3517.2410 
3665 3517.3569my savior3518.1807 
3667 3518.3149that's the greatest advice I would k- I received.3520.7567 
3669 3521.3111And it's always been a-3522.4338 
3671 3524.2222it's been a, um,3525.5403 
3673 3525.9308stabling force in my life.3527.5845 
3674VLD_int_013529.1051Like if-3529.5262
3676 3529.8435if everybody3530.9663 
3678 3531.5460applied that3532.4186 
3680 3533.1999I think we would be in a very different [situation.]3535.2333 
3681VLD_se0_ag4_m_013534.8108[Mm.] Mm-hm.3535.7886