Line Spkr StTime Content EnTime 1 DTA_int_03 0.2064 Alright, uh, 1.1908 2 DTA_int_03 1.1908 (pause 0.28) 1.4753 3 DTA_int_03 1.4753 what I'd like to ask you 2.6134 4 DTA_int_03 2.6134 (pause 0.49) 3.1054 5 DTA_int_03 3.1054 to begin with, what kinds of games did you play when you were a kid? 6.0015 6 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 6.5959 Didn't play. 7.2336 7 DTA_int_03 7.7719 Didn't play? What'd you do? 8.7256 8 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 9.5577 I've never been one who could play or relax in any games. Never enjoyed games. Don't enjoy them now. 14.1828 9 DTA_int_03 14.6222 Huh. 14.8718 10 DTA_int_03 14.8718 (pause 0.55) 15.4266 11 DTA_int_03 15.4266 What did you do then when you were a kid? Did you work? 17.3653 12 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 17.7904 Mostly read. 18.6096 13 DTA_int_03 19.0868 Mm-hm. 19.5119 14 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 19.5670 And, uh, was a loner. 20.9005 15 DTA_int_03 21.2365 Mm-hm. 21.6110 16 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 21.7993 Uh. 22.2428 17 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 22.2428 (pause 0.41) 22.6496 18 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 22.6496 I liked to walk. 23.5929 19 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 23.5929 (pause 1.63) 25.2183 20 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 25.2183 Observe people. 26.0686 21 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 26.0686 (pause 1.13) 27.1941 22 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 27.1941 Window shop. 27.9889 23 DTA_int_03 28.2550 Mm-hm. 28.5884 24 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 29.7690 Uh, hop 30.4250 25 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 30.4250 (pause 0.29) 30.7137 26 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 30.7137 freight trains. I was an adventurer. 32.6100 27 DTA_int_03 33.0565 Mm-hm. 33.3440 28 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 33.5699 And, uh, I was constantly on the move that way. I liked to sit at the waterfront, 37.2000 29 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 37.2000 (pause 0.17) 37.3651 30 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 37.3651 reminisce the boats, and watch the boats 39.1116 31 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 39.1116 (pause 0.37) 39.4786 32 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 39.4786 river. 39.8941 33 DTA_int_03 40.5486 Mm-hm. 40.8302 34 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 40.9952 And, uh, 41.9586 35 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 41.9586 (pause 0.82) 42.7748 36 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 42.7748 I would skip school frequently to- 44.5105 37 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 44.5105 (pause 0.28) 44.7873 38 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 44.7873 to enjoy this s- . 47.2674 39 DTA_int_03 47.3286 [Did you-] 47.6072 40 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 47.4081 [nomadic] life type. 48.5516 41 DTA_int_03 48.9216 Was this in Detroit? 49.6893 42 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 49.9830 Yes. 50.3897 43 DTA_int_03 51.8053 You can hardly window shop. 53.8178 44 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 54.5026 Well, yes I could. 55.6710 45 DTA_int_03 56.0166 Anywhere /above us/. 56.9861 46 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 56.9984 Yeah. 57.2488 47 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 57.2488 (pause 0.13) 57.3803 48 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 57.3803 Mm-hm. 57.7290 49 DTA_int_03 58.4110 Uh, 58.7317 50 DTA_int_03 58.7317 (pause 1.36) 60.0871 51 DTA_int_03 60.0871 did you ever get out into the woods? 61.6558 52 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 62.1481 Yes, I spent 63.1238 53 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 63.1238 (pause 0.17) 63.2951 54 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 63.2951 a number of years in scouting, beginning at the time I was twelve. I spent a lot of time that way. 67.6435 55 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 67.6435 (pause 0.95) 68.5916 56 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 68.5916 I had a certain love for, uh, 70.5150 57 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 70.5150 (pause 0.80) 71.3163 58 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 71.3163 what we might call, uh, 72.4976 59 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 72.4976 (pause 0.53) 73.0317 60 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 73.0317 nature and, uh, 73.8178 61 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 73.8178 (pause 0.27) 74.0839 62 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 74.0839 wild. And, uh, 75.2828 63 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 75.2828 (pause 1.41) 76.6893 64 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 76.6893 every time I had a- 77.4784 65 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 77.4784 (pause 0.26) 77.7417 66 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 77.7417 had a opportunity I was out 79.2581 67 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 79.2581 (pause 1.09) 80.3530 68 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 80.3530 playing at camp. I remember doing that when I was a kid. 82.8667 69 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 82.8667 (pause 0.26) 83.1267 70 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 83.1267 Oh, back 83.6895 71 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 83.6895 (pause 1.11) 84.7993 72 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 84.7993 maybe seven, eight years of age. 86.3714 73 DTA_int_03 86.5579 [Mm-hm.] 86.7904 74 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 86.7476 [And] in fact, I have several periods in my life when 89.0839 75 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 89.7965 uh, before twelve that I- I owned a tent 92.1871 76 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 92.1871 (pause 0.36) 92.5457 77 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 92.5457 thanks to my parents. 93.4357 78 DTA_int_03 93.7167 Uh-huh. 94.0073 79 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 94.0348 And I was able to play camp life. 95.6864 80 DTA_int_03 96.1788 Mm-hm. 96.4836 81 DTA_int_03 96.4836 (pause 0.69) 97.1694 82 DTA_int_03 97.1694 Did you 97.6425 83 DTA_int_03 97.6425 (pause 0.30) 97.9462 84 DTA_int_03 97.9462 ever go out with a scout troop? 99.5876 85 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 99.9125 Oh, yes. After m- after twelve I was an active scouter. 102.9369 86 DTA_int_03 103.2000 Mm-hm. 103.5512 87 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 103.5670 An active scout until I was, uh, 105.7279 88 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 105.7279 (pause 0.61) 106.3345 89 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 106.3345 almost thirty. 106.9899 90 DTA_int_03 107.8485 Hm. 108.0381 91 DTA_int_03 108.0381 (pause 0.64) 108.6739 92 DTA_int_03 108.6739 Uh, 108.8408 93 DTA_int_03 108.8408 (pause 0.26) 109.1051 94 DTA_int_03 109.1051 were you a leader then or just? 110.2776 95 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 110.2399 I became a scout 111.9063 96 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 112.0195 master. I went through all the ranks, when I was a scout and right up to scout master, and I became a neighborhood commissioner. 117.3226 97 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 117.3226 (pause 1.15) 118.4691 98 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 118.4691 And, uh, 119.5335 99 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 119.5335 (pause 1.15) 120.6861 100 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 120.6861 I received the Eagle Scout rank, and, uh, 123.0014 101 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 123.0014 (pause 0.71) 123.7106 102 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 123.7106 Scout Master's Key. 125.0530 103 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 125.0530 (pause 1.05) 126.0993 104 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 126.0993 And I specialize in 127.1388 105 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 127.1388 (pause 0.19) 127.3284 106 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 127.3284 leadership training. 128.1481 107 DTA_int_03 128.4662 Mm-hm. 128.8087 108 DTA_int_03 128.8087 (pause 0.99) 129.7962 109 DTA_int_03 129.7962 Where would you go 130.6832 110 DTA_int_03 130.6832 (pause 0.17) 130.8545 111 DTA_int_03 130.8545 on a 131.3316 112 DTA_int_03 131.3316 (pause 0.16) 131.4906 113 DTA_int_03 131.4906 camping trip? 132.1120 114 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 132.2675 Well, i- 132.8509 115 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 132.8509 (pause 0.40) 133.2519 116 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 133.2519 depends entirely upon the set up. In the Detroit area we had the Detroit Area Boy Scout Camp at Brighton, Michigan. 139.6557 117 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 139.6557 (pause 0.69) 140.3408 118 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 140.3408 /Charles Hall/ Reservation in those days I think. 142.6587 119 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 142.6587 (pause 0.41) 143.0655 120 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 143.0655 I was in a troop that was one of the 144.4785 121 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 144.4785 (pause 0.73) 145.2091 122 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 145.2091 pioneer troops out there that developed- that helped to develop the program there. 148.4691 123 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 148.4691 (pause 1.15) 149.6222 124 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 149.6222 And, um, 150.3379 125 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 150.3379 (pause 0.64) 150.9736 126 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 150.9736 course, uh, I- 151.4966 127 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 151.4966 (pause 0.18) 151.6740 128 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 151.6740 in the troops that I was a member, we always had our own l- 154.6495 129 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 154.6495 (pause 0.13) 154.7841 130 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 154.7841 particular camping- favorite camping spot. 156.9421 131 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 156.9421 (pause 0.58) 157.5211 132 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 157.5211 Overnight camps. We would always pick some place w- 159.6616 133 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 159.6616 (pause 0.32) 159.9797 134 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 159.9797 we- you know, nearby but just enough to give it that 162.4139 135 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 162.4139 (pause 0.13) 162.5485 136 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 162.5485 wilderness aspect. 163.7872 137 DTA_int_03 164.0349 Uh-huh. 164.2827 138 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 165.1788 And, uh, 165.9614 139 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 165.9614 (pause 2.00) 167.9647 140 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 167.9647 we weren't able to do the real 169.9921 141 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 169.9921 (pause 0.19) 170.1787 142 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 170.1787 things that we would like to have done because of 172.2886 143 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 172.2886 (pause 0.14) 172.4293 144 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 172.4293 naturally, money limitations. 174.1316 145 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 174.1316 (pause 0.41) 174.5428 146 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 174.5428 But we had some real good scouting. 175.9952 147 DTA_int_03 176.8668 Did you ever hunt? 177.5300 148 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 178.4232 Well I tried that one time. 180.0993 149 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 180.0993 (pause 0.16) 180.2553 150 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 180.2553 I'm not too much- I liked, uh, 182.0911 151 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 182.0911 (pause 1.44) 183.5317 152 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 183.5317 the idea of hunting, but I think I'd rather do it with a camera or something like that. I don't like the idea of killing animals just for the sport of killing. 189.7503 153 DTA_int_03 190.0378 [Yeah.] 190.2336 154 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 190.2091 [I] went one time and 191.3591 155 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 192.0045 it doesn't appeal to me. 192.9338 156 DTA_int_03 193.7352 What 193.9646 157 DTA_int_03 193.9646 (pause 0.16) 194.1267 158 DTA_int_03 194.1267 kind of weapons did you carry? 195.5068 159 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 195.7748 Oh, of course I mean, hunting I went with a rifle. 198.0228 160 DTA_int_03 198.2946 Mm-hm. 198.5732 161 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 199.4018 Uh, thirty thirty rifle. 201.0198 162 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 201.0198 (pause 0.69) 201.7106 163 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 201.7106 But that was for a week, more or less to be with the fellas that I work with. 204.8902 164 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 204.8902 (pause 0.25) 205.1418 165 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 205.1418 But- 205.4625 166 DTA_int_03 205.4691 Those are pretty. 206.3456 167 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 206.6466 but, uh, 207.5974 168 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 207.5974 (pause 1.34) 208.9340 169 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 208.9340 I don't think too much of hunting 210.4112 170 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 210.4112 (pause 0.87) 211.2764 171 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 211.2764 just for the sake of killing animals. 212.6497 172 DTA_int_03 213.2675 Yeah. 213.5179 173 DTA_int_03 213.5179 (pause 0.81) 214.3253 174 DTA_int_03 214.3253 Um, 214.6404 175 DTA_int_03 214.6404 (pause 1.74) 216.3776 176 DTA_int_03 216.3776 what 216.5852 177 DTA_int_03 216.5852 (pause 1.07) 217.6556 178 DTA_int_03 217.6556 kinds of 218.0655 179 DTA_int_03 218.0655 (pause 0.19) 218.2521 180 DTA_int_03 218.2521 of ca- craf- 219.0779 181 DTA_int_03 219.0779 (pause 0.13) 219.2124 182 DTA_int_03 219.2124 crafts did you go in for? How much- how much equipment did you carry with you and what did you make for [yourself?] 224.9341 183 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 224.8393 [Well] in the outfits that I was with, we were always 227.6239 184 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 228.9277 typed and 229.4734 185 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 229.4734 (pause 0.80) 230.2704 186 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 230.2704 developed our own equipment. We prepared our own 232.7229 187 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 232.7229 (pause 0.14) 232.8667 188 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 232.8667 tents or made our own tents. 234.1635 189 DTA_int_03 234.4812 Did you? 234.7859 190 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 235.0195 And, uh, 235.9889 191 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 235.9889 (pause 0.35) 236.3407 192 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 236.3407 everything we did, we did it from 237.8696 193 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 237.8696 (pause 0.44) 238.3131 194 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 238.3131 right from the beginning. Otherwise we- 240.0228 195 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 240.0228 (pause 0.57) 240.5947 196 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 240.5947 we build a campsite, we use the natural material on hand. 243.4021 197 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 243.4021 (pause 0.13) 243.5332 198 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 243.5332 And we were the oldest scout- scouters, that old [type scouting.] We don't have that now. 247.3018 199 DTA_int_03 245.7967 [Yeah. Uh-huh.] 246.5157 200 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 248.0043 And 248.5151 201 DTA_int_03 248.7822 It's [hard to find.] 249.5852 202 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 248.9775 [before-] 249.3929 203 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 249.6219 oh, yes it's hard to find now. 250.9003 204 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 250.9003 (pause 0.62) 251.5243 205 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 251.5243 And, uh, we made our own knapsacks and things like that. 254.4753 206 DTA_int_03 255.3776 [What did you] use for it? 256.2305 207 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 255.4506 [And-] 255.7075 208 DTA_int_03 256.7137 On the- 257.0504 209 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 257.3591 Well [we used to get-] 258.1910 210 DTA_int_03 257.6629 [/??/] 258.1210 211 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 258.3225 yeah, we used it for making tents, we use to get this unbleached cotton. 261.5122 212 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 261.5122 (pause 0.24) 261.7534 213 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 261.7534 Uh, 262.2397 214 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 262.2397 (pause 0.52) 262.7642 215 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 262.7642 forget what they call it now but, uh, it was unbleached cotton. And we'd take paraffin and- blocks of paraffin and 267.3898 216 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 267.3898 (pause 1.03) 268.4201 217 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 268.4201 with a warm iron just 269.6313 218 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 269.6313 (pause 0.21) 269.8423 219 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 269.8423 press it right into the, 270.9148 220 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 270.9148 (pause 0.37) 271.2855 221 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 271.2855 uh, 271.8055 222 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 271.8055 (pause 0.35) 272.1603 223 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 272.1603 cloth and that water-proofed it for [us.] 274.2244 224 DTA_int_03 274.1449 [Mm-hm.] 274.4235 225 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 275.1358 And for heavier knap or night- knapsacks and things like that, we usually used an Indian 279.6314 226 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 279.6314 (pause 0.24) 279.8696 227 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 279.8696 frame, 280.3956 228 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 280.3956 (pause 0.77) 281.1633 229 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 281.1633 uh, 281.7206 230 DTA_int_03 281.7812 Oh. 282.2246 231 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 282.2950 that's a stiff [back.] 283.2913 232 DTA_int_03 283.1484 [Oh.] 283.4854 233 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 283.7076 And then just 284.3866 234 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 284.3866 (pause 0.27) 284.6527 235 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 284.6527 kind of made a canvas bag 286.1020 236 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 286.1020 (pause 0.52) 286.6250 237 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 286.6250 to set on there, it- l- we laced on there. 288.2797 238 DTA_int_03 288.7564 Mm-hm. 289.0378 239 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 289.0500 A very practical type of, um, 290.9433 240 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 290.9433 (pause 0.39) 291.3347 241 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 291.3347 of, uh, 292.0531 242 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 292.0531 (pause 0.12) 292.1724 243 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 292.1724 knapsack. 292.7871 244 DTA_int_03 293.1327 That was the long pack with the [/?/?] 294.7686 245 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 294.3404 [Yes.] 294.7166 246 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 294.8115 Mm-hm. 295.2060 247 DTA_int_03 297.0931 Uh, 297.3256 248 DTA_int_03 297.3256 (pause 0.71) 298.0347 249 DTA_int_03 298.0347 what did you sew them with? 298.9676 250 DTA_int_03 298.9676 (pause 0.16) 299.1297 251 DTA_int_03 299.1297 when you were in /?/. 299.8148 252 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 301.3039 Well I had a good wife. 302.6863 253 DTA_int_03 303.3680 [] 304.1085 254 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 303.3955 [] 303.6945 255 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 303.6945 (pause 0.17) 303.8604 256 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 303.8604 [No, I had] a few cooperative mothers. [] 306.2277 257 DTA_int_03 305.8209 [Yeah.] 306.0717 258 DTA_int_03 306.5178 Yeah. 306.7733 259 DTA_int_03 306.7733 (pause 1.22) 307.9920 260 DTA_int_03 307.9920 Uh, 308.3040 261 DTA_int_03 308.3040 (pause 0.14) 308.4478 262 DTA_int_03 308.4478 was- was this strictly segregated with the guys? 311.0007 263 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 311.0655 Yes, scouting was segregated. Although, uh, 313.3559 264 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 313.3559 (pause 0.26) 313.6189 265 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 313.6189 I was in an outfit that, uh, 315.2736 266 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 315.2736 (pause 0.64) 315.9124 267 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 315.9124 that- in segregation and the racial matters, you reach a point where no- 319.0990 268 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 319.0990 (pause 0.19) 319.2886 269 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 319.2886 people no longer see your color. 320.7322 270 DTA_int_03 320.8594 /Really/? 321.2654 271 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 321.2858 And when you are- 322.0867 272 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 322.0867 (pause 0.38) 322.4690 273 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 322.4690 reach a certain 323.2520 274 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 323.2520 (pause 0.50) 323.7567 275 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 323.7567 development and s- uh, progress, 325.4660 276 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 325.4660 (pause 0.43) 325.8942 277 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 325.8942 and they don't see you as a Negro or as an Indian or Chinese, 328.4415 278 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 328.4415 (pause 0.33) 328.7718 279 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 328.7718 you're in a program and you're in- excelling in that program so you get- there you are. So 332.6873 280 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 332.6873 (pause 0.41) 333.0992 281 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 333.0992 our boys, 333.9410 282 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 333.9410 (pause 0.67) 334.6128 283 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 334.6128 although all of our Negro boys where y- were used 337.4568 284 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 337.4568 (pause 0.12) 337.5730 285 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 337.5730 primarily as a training 339.3103 286 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 339.3103 (pause 0.47) 339.7839 287 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 339.7839 group. 340.0898 288 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 340.0898 (pause 0.48) 340.5730 289 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 340.5730 We trained 341.2061 290 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 341.2061 (pause 0.25) 341.4569 291 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 341.4569 other 341.8734 292 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 341.8734 (pause 0.46) 342.3317 293 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 342.3317 troops and obviously 343.5914 294 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 343.5914 (pause 0.35) 343.9370 295 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 343.9370 we weren't training Negro troops. 345.4601 296 DTA_int_03 345.6065 Yeah. 345.8271 297 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 346.3222 And I wasn't training Negro leaders, I was training all white leaders. 349.1815 298 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 349.1815 (pause 0.96) 350.1450 299 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 350.1450 So, uh, 350.8912 300 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 350.8912 (pause 0.23) 351.1206 301 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 351.1206 we didn't have the feeling of being segregated so much. And we didn't- 353.9188 302 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 353.9188 (pause 0.43) 354.3439 303 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 354.3439 although we, uh, 355.0405 304 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 355.0405 (pause 0.14) 355.1815 305 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 355.1815 scouting in those days were definitely set upon a racial pattern. 357.6985 306 DTA_int_03 358.0255 Yeah. 358.3100 307 DTA_int_03 358.3100 (pause 0.84) 359.1541 308 DTA_int_03 359.1541 Um, 359.5256 309 DTA_int_03 359.5256 (pause 0.33) 359.8545 310 DTA_int_03 359.8545 was it 360.2456 311 DTA_int_03 360.2456 (pause 0.44) 360.6891 312 DTA_int_03 360.6891 in advance of the city, or what's this about? 362.8573 313 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 363.3255 Pardon? 363.6708 314 DTA_int_03 364.0072 Was s- 364.5781 315 DTA_int_03 364.5781 (pause 0.31) 364.8911 316 DTA_int_03 364.8911 was scouting in advance of the city on- 366.9888 317 DTA_int_03 366.9888 (pause 1.10) 368.0930 318 DTA_int_03 368.0930 on 368.3224 319 DTA_int_03 368.3224 (pause 0.29) 368.6083 320 DTA_int_03 368.6083 integration, in other words? 369.8970 321 DTA_int_03 369.8970 (pause 1.47) 371.3713 322 DTA_int_03 371.3713 Uh, 371.7903 323 DTA_int_03 371.7903 (pause 0.24) 372.0289 324 DTA_int_03 372.0289 were you 372.6646 325 DTA_int_03 372.6646 (pause 0.33) 372.9980 326 DTA_int_03 372.9980 according more respect 374.1725 327 DTA_int_03 374.1725 (pause 0.17) 374.3438 328 DTA_int_03 374.3438 in- 374.6496 329 DTA_int_03 374.6496 (pause 0.17) 374.8209 330 DTA_int_03 374.8209 in the scouting 375.6493 331 DTA_int_03 375.6493 (pause 0.56) 376.2121 332 DTA_int_03 376.2121 than you might be 377.2864 333 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 377.6955 Well /?/- 378.1634 334 DTA_int_03 378.4020 early- i- I don't [know] Detroit, and [I don't know how-] 380.9896 335 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 379.4201 [Y-] 379.5971 336 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 379.5971 (pause 0.72) 380.3193 337 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 380.3193 [ Yeah.] 381.3255 338 DTA_int_03 381.3664 how decent it was to be a [Negro.] 382.7943 339 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 382.6600 [Uh-huh.] 382.9082 340 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 383.5823 Well I don't think, uh, it's very difficult for, uh, 386.1388 341 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 386.1388 (pause 0.97) 387.1053 342 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 387.1053 me to say that, uh, at anytime I ever felt there was a really- 390.1512 343 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 390.1512 (pause 0.90) 391.0469 344 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 391.0469 I was involved in a racial pattern of any type, and it was 393.6463 345 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 393.6463 (pause 0.85) 394.4935 346 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 394.4935 uh, difficult for me. 395.7964 347 DTA_int_03 396.7319 Mm-hm. 397.0584 348 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 397.2977 So I don't have those concepts. 398.8433 349 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 398.8433 (pause 0.61) 399.4509 350 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 399.4509 But, uh, 400.2999 351 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 400.2999 (pause 0.75) 401.0471 352 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 401.0471 in scouting, uh, the people- the boys that I was 404.1521 353 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 404.1521 (pause 0.18) 404.3315 354 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 404.3315 working with, that parental group I was working with 406.5699 355 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 406.5699 (pause 0.43) 406.9951 356 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 406.9951 were all from homeowners 408.3317 357 DTA_int_03 408.6279 Uh-huh. 408.9491 358 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 409.0928 and you might say that, uh, a middle class 411.6554 359 DTA_int_03 411.9032 Yeah. 412.0902 360 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 412.2341 people. A middle class Negro, 413.8912 361 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 413.8912 (pause 0.33) 414.2215 362 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 414.2215 uh, 414.4051 363 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 414.4051 (pause 0.16) 414.5610 364 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 414.5610 culture. 415.0683 365 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 415.0683 (pause 0.70) 415.7657 366 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 415.7657 And, uh, there were, 417.0442 367 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 417.0442 (pause 0.82) 417.8604 368 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 417.8604 uh, 418.2916 369 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 418.2916 (pause 0.29) 418.5852 370 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 418.5852 mostly had either very decent jobs or they were 421.2335 371 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 421.2335 (pause 0.11) 421.3467 372 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 421.3467 professional people. 422.2116 373 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 422.2116 (pause 0.75) 422.9616 374 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 422.9616 So there was enough 423.9558 375 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 423.9558 (pause 0.26) 424.2183 376 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 424.2183 income and enough of 425.4049 377 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 425.4049 (pause 0.22) 425.6282 378 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 425.6282 things to work with, so that we didn't really feel that, uh, 428.3866 379 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 428.3866 (pause 0.81) 429.1940 380 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 429.1940 we were being restricted too much. And in scouting, 431.5028 381 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 431.5028 (pause 0.28) 431.7842 382 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 431.7842 even though the troop was 432.9931 383 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 432.9931 (pause 0.50) 433.4965 384 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 433.4965 the- 433.6311 385 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 433.6311 (pause 0.24) 433.8727 386 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 433.8727 uh, groups or the troops were set up on a racial pattern, 436.8238 387 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 436.8238 (pause 0.39) 437.2153 388 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 437.2153 we were 437.6129 389 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 437.6129 (pause 0.33) 437.9463 390 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 437.9463 integrated in all the scouting movement and programs. 441.2582 391 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 441.2582 (pause 0.80) 442.0622 392 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 442.0622 So there wasn't a Negro camp or anything like that, or a Negro camp life. 445.7847 393 DTA_int_03 446.0654 Mm-hm. 446.4065 394 DTA_int_03 446.4065 (pause 1.17) 447.5729 395 DTA_int_03 447.5729 [It's-] 447.9212 396 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 447.6616 [Good morning,] /RD-NAME-2/. 448.6755 397 DTA_int_03 451.7901 Um, 452.2966 398 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 453.3102 Mm-hm. 453.7013 399 DTA_int_03 454.1846 did you have any pets when you were growing up? 456.2395 400 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 456.7319 Usually I had an animal of some type. 458.3132 401 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 458.3132 (pause 0.17) 458.4875 402 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 458.4875 Always a dog. 459.3102 403 DTA_int_03 459.7135 Mm-hm. 460.1286 404 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 461.5854 Or a cat. 462.1084 405 DTA_int_03 462.6889 Who was your favorite dog? 463.7626 406 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 464.4997 What? 464.7261 407 DTA_int_03 464.9493 When you were a kid? 465.5688 408 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 466.0775 I didn't have any favorite dogs, they were all favorites. 467.8088 409 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 467.8088 (pause 0.24) 468.0533 410 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 468.0533 Probably the one I 469.2457 411 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 469.2457 (pause 0.12) 469.3620 412 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 469.3620 best remember was 470.4141 413 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 470.4141 (pause 0.45) 470.8606 414 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 470.8606 my first dog, was a large collie. 472.7596 415 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 472.7596 (pause 0.66) 473.4233 416 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 473.4233 And possibly the last dog that I had, 475.9002 417 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 475.9002 (pause 0.25) 476.1480 418 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 476.1480 when I married, 476.7811 419 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 476.7811 (pause 0.53) 477.3072 420 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 477.3072 which my wife took over. 478.8483 421 DTA_int_03 479.2459 Is that [the-] 480.0212 422 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 479.7199 [He change-] he changed [his loyalty.] 480.9705 423 DTA_int_03 480.4243 [a hundred and] thirty [pound-] 481.6464 424 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 481.5706 [No,] no, no, no, [no.] This is- we've a- we always have 484.1264 425 DTA_int_03 482.4018 [yeah.] 482.6732 426 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 485.0776 dogs, cats, 485.9096 427 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 485.9096 (pause 0.19) 486.0961 428 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 486.0961 and everything in our family. We always have had. My wife and I both love animals, so we have a 489.9980 429 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 489.9980 (pause 0.34) 490.3344 430 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 490.3344 Siamese cat'll be around if you manage to see him. 492.5881 431 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 492.5881 (pause 1.10) 493.6861 432 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 493.6861 And, uh, we have this 494.7108 433 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 494.7108 (pause 0.22) 494.9279 434 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 494.9279 police dog out here, and we 496.5210 435 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 496.5210 (pause 0.41) 496.9278 436 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 496.9278 had a canary until the cat moved in. 498.7869 437 DTA_int_03 499.1295 499.8391 438 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 499.9675 And, uh, we have goldfish. 501.5637 439 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 501.5637 (pause 1.24) 502.8024 440 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 502.8024 So we al- always had some type of 505.0653 441 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 505.0653 (pause 0.15) 505.2151 442 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 505.2151 pet life around us. 506.2214 443 DTA_int_03 506.8239 How do you find the Siamese behaves? 508.3833 444 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 509.1847 Oh, it's 509.7291 445 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 509.7291 (pause 0.14) 509.8674 446 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 509.8674 you see the picture of that darn cat? 511.1478 447 DTA_int_03 512.2061 Uh, [no I] didn't. I have a Siamese. 514.6447 448 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 512.6955 [/unintelligible/] 512.9952 449 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 514.6770 Oh, you have a Siamese? Well we- 515.7750 450 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 515.7750 (pause 0.21) 515.9891 451 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 515.9891 this one here is a- 516.9276 452 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 516.9276 (pause 0.85) 517.7748 453 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 517.7748 a beautiful creature, it's thoroughbred. 519.4147 454 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 519.4147 (pause 0.23) 519.6426 455 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 519.6426 And my- our daughter raises- breeds 'em. 522.1576 456 DTA_int_03 522.5361 Mm-hm. 522.8249 457 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 523.5699 And, uh, 524.3913 458 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 524.3913 (pause 0.48) 524.8667 459 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 524.8667 it's quite a- quite- it's a male cat. 526.5516 460 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 526.5516 (pause 0.76) 527.3162 461 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 527.3162 But I've never seen anything as affectionate as that cat, except it has one particular 531.2766 462 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 531.2766 (pause 0.46) 531.7349 463 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 531.7349 trait that it was trained 533.1514 464 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 533.1514 (pause 0.96) 534.1141 465 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 534.1141 by 534.4750 466 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 534.4750 (pause 0.21) 534.6891 467 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 534.6891 my daughter and her husband. 535.8115 468 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 535.8115 (pause 1.11) 536.9248 469 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 536.9248 Uh, 537.5029 470 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 537.5029 (pause 0.72) 538.2182 471 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 538.2182 to ride your shoulder. 539.0685 472 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 539.0685 (pause 1.87) 540.9429 473 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 540.9429 So if you're standing and basically he decides that he wants to move, 544.1784 474 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 544.1784 (pause 0.18) 544.3589 475 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 544.3589 ride a- 544.7075 476 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 544.7075 (pause 1.47) 546.1756 477 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 546.1756 uh, whether you have on sufficient, uh, articles to 549.1550 478 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 549.1550 (pause 0.33) 549.4845 479 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 549.4845 burry the [claw into, or whether he uses] your skin, it's all the same to him. 553.2702 480 DTA_int_03 549.9551 [] 551.2482 481 DTA_int_03 553.7228 Yeah. 554.1051 482 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 554.2091 And he will be around in a few minutes. He sleeps with us. 556.6739 483 DTA_int_03 557.1816 Uh-huh. 557.4569 484 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 558.0196 And he goes from bed to bed. 559.4927 485 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 559.4927 (pause 0.36) 559.8513 486 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 559.8513 And, uh, 560.6364 487 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 560.6364 (pause 0.34) 560.9799 488 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 560.9799 generally 561.4203 489 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 561.4203 (pause 0.92) 562.3436 490 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 562.3436 runs the household. 563.3316 491 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 563.3316 (pause 0.23) 563.5578 492 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 563.5578 And [including-] 564.2337 493 DTA_int_03 563.8698 [/unintelligible/?] 564.4735 494 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 565.2610 Yes he does. 566.2122 495 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 566.2122 (pause 0.37) 566.5853 496 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 566.5853 Some awful [sounds.] 567.9429 497 DTA_int_03 567.6829 [] 568.7289 498 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 569.6740 Awful sounds. Does yours do that? 571.3252 499 DTA_int_03 571.6280 Yeah. Oh yeah. 572.2000 500 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 572.4599 [Yeah.] 572.8025 501 DTA_int_03 572.6954 [/Now] I'm a little [paranoid/.] 573.7101 502 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 573.2211 [Mine's] very noisy. 574.4078 503 DTA_int_03 574.8788 Um, 575.2968 504 DTA_int_03 575.2968 (pause 0.53) 575.8300 505 DTA_int_03 575.8300 did you ever 576.5086 506 DTA_int_03 576.5086 (pause 1.10) 577.6066 507 DTA_int_03 577.6066 keep any wild pets? 578.8361 508 DTA_int_03 578.8361 (pause 1.09) 579.9215 509 DTA_int_03 579.9215 Like a raccoon or a skunk? 581.1694 510 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 581.3651 Uh, no. I don't think so. 583.0102 511 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 583.0102 (pause 0.77) 583.7840 512 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 583.7840 Don't remember ever 584.5425 513 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 584.5425 (pause 0.41) 584.9493 514 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 584.9493 having any. 585.6967 515 DTA_int_03 586.7473 Oh. 586.9635 516 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 587.1449 Uh, we lived up in Brighton, Michigan. 589.0499 517 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 589.0499 (pause 0.30) 589.3466 518 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 589.3466 Possibly, there might've been a tendency, we had been able to- to, uh, 592.4873 519 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 592.4873 (pause 0.52) 593.0103 520 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 593.0103 adopted a wild 594.0533 521 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 594.0533 (pause 0.58) 594.6309 522 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 594.6309 [animal.] 595.0286 523 DTA_int_03 594.6768 [Mm-hm.] 595.0730 524 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 595.6219 But, uh, 596.2948 525 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 596.2948 (pause 0.38) 596.6721 526 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 596.6721 we haven't. 597.2236 527 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 597.2236 (pause 0.49) 597.7166 528 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 597.7166 Never have. 598.3864 529 DTA_int_03 599.8147 Um, 600.1297 530 DTA_int_03 600.1297 (pause 0.52) 600.6523 531 DTA_int_03 600.6523 when- 600.9857 532 DTA_int_03 600.9857 (pause 0.41) 601.3986 533 DTA_int_03 601.3986 did you have any 602.4058 534 DTA_int_03 602.4058 (pause 0.27) 602.6801 535 DTA_int_03 602.6801 beliefs when you were a kid about how you could get a wish? 605.4783 536 DTA_int_03 605.4783 (pause 1.21) 606.6921 537 DTA_int_03 606.6921 Like, when you- was- was there any situation that seemed to call for a wish? 610.1050 538 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 612.4417 I, uh, 613.3252 539 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 613.3252 (pause 0.63) 613.9583 540 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 613.9583 don't know. I've always been a 615.2062 541 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 615.2062 (pause 0.19) 615.3958 542 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 615.3958 daydreamer. 616.1635 543 DTA_int_03 616.5179 Mm-hm. 616.8482 544 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 617.5027 But 617.7780 545 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 617.7780 (pause 0.72) 618.5029 546 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 618.5029 my daydreams for the most part have been fulfilled. So they weren't directly- 623.6679 547 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 623.6679 (pause 0.86) 624.5273 548 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 624.5273 it wasn't directly wishful thinking, it was more or less a directed ambition. A [latent ambition.] 629.1388 549 DTA_int_03 628.2885 [Mm-hm.] 628.6455 550 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 629.9309 So everything that I've dreamed of has- I dreamed of as a kid, with the exception of possibly being in the Navy, 635.1479 551 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 635.1479 (pause 0.73) 635.8789 552 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 635.8789 has been fulfilled. 636.9325 553 DTA_int_03 637.1723 Were you in the service? 638.0111 554 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 638.2519 No. 638.5272 555 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 638.5272 (pause 0.15) 638.6771 556 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 638.6771 Was too old. 639.2796 557 DTA_int_03 639.6248 Mm. 639.9281 558 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 640.4445 Too old or too young. 641.3590 559 DTA_int_03 641.9078 Yeah. 642.1756 560 DTA_int_03 642.1756 (pause 0.20) 642.3740 561 DTA_int_03 642.3740 Wrong war. 643.1906 562 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 643.2059 Mm-hm. 643.5454 563 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 643.5454 (pause 0.39) 643.9369 564 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 643.9369 Wrong war. 644.5211 565 DTA_int_03 645.1940 So 645.6913 566 DTA_int_03 645.6913 (pause 0.50) 646.1876 567 DTA_int_03 646.1876 in your family there wasn't much fuss made about chicken bones, and 649.4991 568 DTA_int_03 649.4991 (pause 0.92) 650.4171 569 DTA_int_03 650.4171 anything? 650.8338 570 DTA_int_03 650.8338 (pause 0.37) 651.2058 571 DTA_int_03 651.2058 The breast bone or the 652.2151 572 DTA_int_03 652.2151 (pause 0.48) 652.6983 573 DTA_int_03 652.6983 collar bone? 653.2498 574 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 653.9370 Now why'd you bring that up? 654.8450 575 DTA_int_03 655.4231 I [was-] 655.8635 576 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 655.6372 [I don't] see the point. 656.5150 577 DTA_int_03 656.7352 oh, as- as a wish- 657.8267 578 DTA_int_03 657.8267 (pause 0.35) 658.1814 579 DTA_int_03 658.1814 wish [thing.] 658.8581 580 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 658.6739 [Oh,] you mean that little wish- 659.7413 581 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 659.9462 oh, this w- well this was done as a traditional thing without any concept of it meaning anything. [This w-] 664.8852 582 DTA_int_03 664.5515 [Yeah, that's] what I meant. A tradition, [a situation, that seem to call for a wish.] 668.2951 583 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 666.0716 [a- yeah. 666.5728 584 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 666.5728 (pause 0.33) 666.9031 585 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 666.9031 [Yeah, this is just- yeah it w-] we just 668.7688 586 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 668.8881 had the breast bone in the chicken, so okay, whoever got it 671.4171 587 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 671.4171 (pause 0.16) 671.5731 588 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 671.5731 broke it. We still do. 672.6156 589 DTA_int_03 672.9215 Mm-hm. 673.2437 590 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 673.4751 But, uh, there's no 675.0018 591 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 675.0018 (pause 0.25) 675.2551 592 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 675.2551 element of superstition or element of, uh, thinking that 677.8544 593 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 677.8544 (pause 0.12) 677.9707 594 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 677.9707 such things would come true. This is more or less just a- 680.2397 595 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 680.2397 (pause 0.61) 680.8483 596 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 680.8483 something that was 682.1233 597 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 682.1233 (pause 0.15) 682.2732 598 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 682.2732 traditional, that's all. Part of, uh, American culture if anything. 685.7993 599 DTA_int_03 685.8543 Yeah. 686.1449 600 DTA_int_03 686.1449 (pause 0.76) 686.9034 601 DTA_int_03 686.9034 But I don't- I don't think anybody really [believes.] 689.1693 602 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 688.9399 [Yeah.] 689.3345 603 DTA_int_03 689.8086 Did you have any other situations like 691.5607 604 DTA_int_03 691.5607 (pause 0.37) 691.9338 605 DTA_int_03 691.9338 that where you 692.5971 606 DTA_int_03 692.5971 (pause 0.46) 693.0528 607 DTA_int_03 693.0528 felt obliged to at least try to think up a wish? 695.6680 608 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 697.0927 Not that I can recall, unless it was the old favorite one of blowing out the candle on birthday cake. 701.9370 609 DTA_int_03 702.3163 Uh-huh. 702.6196 610 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 702.6554 Which we still do. 703.7136 611 DTA_int_03 703.8665 Yeah. 704.2264 612 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 704.9676 And, this again of course if a part of our American culture. 707.7443 613 DTA_int_03 708.3469 Indeed. 708.8144 614 DTA_int_03 708.8144 (pause 1.67) 710.4813 615 DTA_int_03 710.4813 Uh, could you tell me about school? 712.0010 616 DTA_int_03 712.0010 (pause 0.76) 712.7564 617 DTA_int_03 712.7564 What did you study? 713.6454 618 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 714.0165 Well I went 714.4994 619 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 714.4994 (pause 0.22) 714.7174 620 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 714.7174 to elementary school in Detroit. 716.1235 621 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 716.1235 (pause 1.05) 717.1756 622 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 717.1756 And I went up to tenth grade in 719.1235 623 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 719.1235 (pause 0.21) 719.3314 624 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 719.3314 high school before dropping out. 721.6606 625 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 721.6606 (pause 1.18) 722.8453 626 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 722.8453 And after I married, 724.1753 627 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 724.1753 (pause 0.54) 724.7197 628 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 724.7197 my wife and I both went back to school and finished night school. 727.6249 629 DTA_int_03 727.8726 Mm-hm. 728.2213 630 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 728.6526 And, uh, we've had some, 730.6364 631 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 730.6364 (pause 0.44) 731.0806 632 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 731.0806 uh, 731.7107 633 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 731.7107 (pause 1.12) 732.8266 634 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 732.8266 formal 733.4261 635 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 733.4261 (pause 0.98) 734.4109 636 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 734.4109 schooling after that. U of D, uh, but 736.6310 637 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 736.6310 (pause 0.23) 736.8604 638 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 736.8604 this has been more or less an adult interest level rather than, 739.3527 639 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 739.3527 (pause 0.56) 739.9093 640 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 739.9093 um, matriculating for a degree or anything like that. 742.2365 641 DTA_int_03 742.2365 Yeah. 742.4614 642 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 743.7933 But, uh- 744.7532 643 DTA_int_03 744.8664 What did you take in elementary school? 746.5292 644 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 747.0441 the same old thing everyone else takes, you know, reading, and writing, and arithmetic. And, uh, a little bit of- uh, 752.1785 645 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 752.1785 (pause 0.65) 752.8269 646 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 752.8269 of physical ed and, uh, 754.7717 647 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 754.7717 (pause 0.77) 755.5455 648 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 755.5455 n- I think 756.0899 649 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 756.0899 (pause 0.40) 756.4875 650 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 756.4875 both my wife and I /though/- 757.8818 651 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 757.8818 (pause 0.64) 758.5241 652 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 758.5241 or had an interest in debating and- and research work. 762.0288 653 DTA_int_03 762.4111 Mm-hm. 762.7217 654 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 762.7217 We went to school together. 763.7778 655 DTA_int_03 764.1173 Oh, did [you?] 764.5401 656 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 764.3620 [] 765.3372 657 DTA_int_03 766.2365 You mean from [grade] school, on up? 767.4457 658 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 766.6916 [Uh-] 766.9216 659 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 766.9216 (pause 0.46) 767.3787 660 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 767.3787 uh-huh. 767.8483 661 DTA_int_03 770.8024 Uh, 771.1175 662 DTA_int_03 771.1175 (pause 1.98) 773.1020 663 DTA_int_03 773.1020 what to you does a normal classroom have in it? 775.6402 664 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 778.2303 Well, 779.0806 665 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 779.0806 (pause 0.13) 779.2060 666 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 779.2060 my concept hasn't changed any from what I see now in the classroom. 782.9064 667 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 782.9064 (pause 0.12) 783.0257 668 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 783.0257 Possibly they have a little more 784.3496 669 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 784.3496 (pause 0.68) 785.0286 670 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 785.0286 decorations around on the wall- a few m- few more posters and things like that. Uh, 790.2242 671 DTA_int_03 790.7014 But [essentially the same?] 792.1083 672 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 790.8512 [I-] 791.0164 673 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 791.0164 (pause 0.54) 791.5577 674 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 791.5577 [I think the visual] aid- there are few more visual aids now, but [essentially,] 795.1144 675 DTA_int_03 794.4170 [Mm-hm.] 794.7494 676 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 795.7899 uh, I can remember in school back in nineteen seventeen, 799.1325 677 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 799.1325 (pause 0.77) 799.9002 678 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 799.9002 when we were learning 800.7657 679 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 800.7657 (pause 0.65) 801.4141 680 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 801.4141 the alphabet. 802.1264 681 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 802.1264 (pause 0.12) 802.2426 682 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 802.2426 I don't think there's a heck of a lot of difference. 803.9553 683 DTA_int_03 804.3954 [Okay.] 805.3055 684 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 805.0652 [And the] way they were- and the visual aids used then are the visual aids used now. 808.1263 685 DTA_int_03 808.4720 Where would the teacher write? 809.4806 686 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 810.3560 Blackboard. 810.8664 687 DTA_int_03 811.5025 And where would you sit? 812.3617 688 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 813.5181 Well, uh, 814.4977 689 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 814.4977 (pause 0.46) 814.9552 690 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 814.9552 ordinary- under ordinary circumstances I was one of those guys that like to get right up under the teacher if possible. 818.8514 691 DTA_int_03 819.0257 Mm-hm. 819.3522 692 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 819.5880 So I was usually in the front of the classroom. 821.4629 693 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 821.4629 (pause 0.10) 821.5669 694 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 821.5669 Wherever it was. 822.2031 695 DTA_int_03 822.8908 So /?/ 823.5362 696 DTA_int_03 823.5362 (pause 0.50) 824.0378 697 DTA_int_03 824.0378 You- 824.3106 698 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 824.5638 I had a [high interest l-] 825.4079 699 DTA_int_03 824.9523 [/inaudible/.] 825.4259 700 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 825.5213 uh, I had a high interest level in what I was, 827.0959 701 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 827.0959 (pause 0.21) 827.3100 702 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 827.3100 uh, being taught in school. 828.5089 703 DTA_int_03 828.7410 Mm-hm. 829.0588 704 DTA_int_03 829.0588 (pause 0.24) 829.2976 705 DTA_int_03 829.2976 Yeah. 829.5454 706 DTA_int_03 829.5454 (pause 0.80) 830.3436 707 DTA_int_03 830.3436 Um, 830.7351 708 DTA_int_03 830.7351 (pause 1.62) 832.3588 709 DTA_int_03 832.3588 if you 832.8053 710 DTA_int_03 832.8053 (pause 0.18) 832.9896 711 DTA_int_03 832.9896 walked outside a classroom, where would you be? 835.0263 712 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 836.8391 Well under ordinary circumstances it would be either the library- 840.1970 713 DTA_int_03 840.9337 Uh-huh. 841.2703 714 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 841.6860 playground. 842.0622 715 DTA_int_03 842.5822 Mm-hm. 842.9334 716 DTA_int_03 842.9334 (pause 0.81) 843.7410 717 DTA_int_03 843.7410 Uh, 844.0196 718 DTA_int_03 844.0196 (pause 0.22) 844.2364 719 DTA_int_03 844.2364 what- 844.4322 720 DTA_int_03 844.4322 (pause 0.20) 844.6279 721 DTA_int_03 844.6279 what do you call the area around the school? 846.5064 722 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 848.2549 The area around the school? 849.3407 723 DTA_int_03 849.5177 Yeah. The, um, 850.4291 724 DTA_int_03 850.4291 (pause 0.77) 851.1968 725 DTA_int_03 851.1968 the- 851.4170 726 DTA_int_03 851.4170 (pause 0.18) 851.5944 727 DTA_int_03 851.5944 [the grounds.] 852.2398 728 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 851.6801 [/?/] 851.8528 729 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 851.8528 (pause 0.25) 852.1021 730 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 852.1021 [uh,] the playground, [and] 853.4281 731 DTA_int_03 853.3129 [Mm-hm.] 853.5611 732 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 853.6211 usually they- rounds the school. 855.2735 733 DTA_int_03 855.4137 Yeah. 855.5942 734 DTA_int_03 855.5942 (pause 0.51) 856.1080 735 DTA_int_03 856.1080 What does a playground normally have on it? 857.9235 736 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 858.9887 Well it depends entirely on the e- the school system. 861.7440 737 DTA_int_03 862.1294 Yeah. 862.3435 738 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 862.7717 Depends on 863.3589 739 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 863.3589 (pause 0.28) 863.6403 740 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 863.6403 the neighborhood and the school system. Some neighborhoods, 866.1234 741 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 866.1234 (pause 0.27) 866.3895 742 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 866.3895 some systems, supply their 867.8755 743 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 867.8755 (pause 1.00) 868.8757 744 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 868.8757 playground with, uh, 869.9156 745 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 869.9156 (pause 0.53) 870.4422 746 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 870.4422 a great number of, uh, 871.6952 747 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 871.6952 (pause 0.71) 872.4048 748 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 872.4048 uh, physical e- uh, 874.0560 749 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 874.0560 (pause 0.68) 874.7380 750 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 874.7380 uh, 875.1850 751 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 875.1850 (pause 1.13) 876.3193 752 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 876.3193 equipment for, 877.4475 753 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 877.4475 (pause 0.51) 877.9582 754 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 877.9582 uh, 878.4109 755 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 878.4109 (pause 0.16) 878.5730 756 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 878.5730 exercise. Others 879.8388 757 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 879.8388 (pause 0.49) 880.3282 758 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 880.3282 tend to develop stuff like they have over there, more [for] 882.9275 759 DTA_int_03 882.8583 [Oh.] 883.1539 760 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 883.1783 playing, you know, games. 884.3222 761 DTA_int_03 884.4140 Mm-hm. 884.7550 762 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 885.2520 But of course in my day 886.4628 763 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 886.4628 (pause 0.17) 886.6340 764 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 886.6340 in school, 887.3100 765 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 887.3100 (pause 0.31) 887.6189 766 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 887.6189 we only had, um, 888.8235 767 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 888.8235 (pause 0.75) 889.5729 768 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 889.5729 swings and a 890.9156 769 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 890.9156 (pause 0.61) 891.5211 770 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 891.5211 teeter totters, and, uh, 892.8695 771 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 892.8695 (pause 0.36) 893.2274 772 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 893.2274 possibly a few other 894.3805 773 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 894.3805 (pause 0.79) 895.1722 774 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 895.1722 Indian bar things, I guess the were called. Where you swung over head and 898.4658 775 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 898.4658 (pause 0.43) 898.9001 776 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 898.9001 hung by your knees, and things like that. 900.4722 777 DTA_int_03 900.7165 Mm-hm. 901.0040 778 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 901.8206 But, [uh, that's changed some.] 902.9676 779 DTA_int_03 901.9093 [Do you- you didn't have those] things you climb on now? 904.1386 780 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 904.4903 Well we did in high school, we had some of the, uh, climb- rope climbing, 907.8848 781 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 907.8848 (pause 0.40) 908.2824 782 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 908.2824 uh, 908.7045 783 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 908.7045 (pause 0.17) 908.8758 784 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 908.8758 bar- uh, things like that in high school. But 910.9735 785 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 910.9735 (pause 0.54) 911.5088 786 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 911.5088 on the playgrounds for the elementary schools 913.5117 787 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 913.5117 (pause 0.50) 914.0072 788 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 914.0072 usually the equipment was more or less standardized in Detroit. 916.9491 789 DTA_int_03 917.1387 Mm-hm. 917.4101 790 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 917.8421 Uh, at least in the neighborhoods that I was able to make observations. 920.7572 791 DTA_int_03 921.4080 Yeah. Do you have any special name for the 923.4262 792 DTA_int_03 923.4262 (pause 0.14) 923.5699 793 DTA_int_03 923.5699 rather elaborate system of bars that you'll find on many playgrounds now? 927.4783 794 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 928.0376 No I do not. 928.9735 795 DTA_int_03 929.8727 Um, 930.2936 796 DTA_int_03 930.2936 (pause 1.46) 931.7533 797 DTA_int_03 931.7533 what- 931.9919 798 DTA_int_03 931.9919 (pause 0.17) 932.1601 799 DTA_int_03 932.1601 what do the kids 932.9798 800 DTA_int_03 932.9798 (pause 0.84) 933.8235 801 DTA_int_03 933.8235 slide down on? 934.5392 802 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 935.3925 Slides. 936.1266 803 DTA_int_03 936.1266 A slide? 936.6056 804 DTA_int_03 936.6056 (pause 1.25) 937.8512 805 DTA_int_03 937.8512 Uh, 938.2121 806 DTA_int_03 938.2121 (pause 1.44) 939.6492 807 DTA_int_03 939.6492 did you ever have a teacher who hollered a lot? 941.2862 808 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 943.3741 Not in the elementary schools. 945.7990 809 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 945.7990 (pause 1.14) 946.9429 810 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 946.9429 Uh, they did I possibly don't remember them being objectionable to the [point where] it bothered me. 952.9215 811 DTA_int_03 951.6431 [Mm-hm.] 951.9710 812 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 953.9767 Uh, we have a 955.0865 813 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 955.0865 (pause 0.14) 955.2303 814 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 955.2303 pet 955.5300 815 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 955.5300 (pause 0.21) 955.7380 816 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 955.7380 teacher, 956.4099 817 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 956.4099 (pause 0.74) 957.1541 818 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 957.1541 uh, 957.7226 819 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 957.7226 (pause 0.35) 958.0713 820 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 958.0713 she was sixth grade teacher in the school. 959.8024 821 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 959.8024 (pause 0.62) 960.4263 822 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 960.4263 And her name was Ms. /RD-NAME-2/. And my wife and I always laugh about, remember she had a pet cliche, 966.0960 823 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 966.0960 (pause 0.61) 966.7012 824 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 966.7012 pick up the litter and shut up the fuss. 968.2519 825 DTA_int_03 968.3619 [] 969.2214 826 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 969.0899 [So] we still say that. Pick up the litter and shut up the fuss. These kids get a big dose of that. 973.0009 827 DTA_int_03 973.3771 Mm-hm. 973.6034 828 DTA_int_03 973.6034 (pause 1.00) 974.6036 829 DTA_int_03 974.6036 [Was she a] good teacher? 975.5144 830 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 974.6831 [From our-] 975.0108 831 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 975.7654 exceptionally good. Back in those days all teachers were good. They were all dedicated [teachers.] 979.3740 832 DTA_int_03 979.2609 [Mm-hm.] 979.5497 833 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 980.1693 Uh, 980.7779 834 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 980.7779 (pause 0.24) 981.0202 835 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 981.0202 and they were a different breed than 982.8236 836 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 982.8236 (pause 0.45) 983.2702 837 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 983.2702 a large percentage of our teachers now- 984.5972 838 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 984.5972 (pause 0.26) 984.8602 839 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 984.8602 now. 985.1538 840 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 985.1538 (pause 0.30) 985.4505 841 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 985.4505 That is, that they were not interested in the paycheck, they were n- interested in their profession. And so many of them of course 990.0776 842 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 990.0776 (pause 0.31) 990.3835 843 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 990.3835 never married for that reason. 991.6371 844 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 991.6371 (pause 0.80) 992.4323 845 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 992.4323 And teaching to them was uh, a real profession. 994.6804 846 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 994.6804 (pause 0.73) 995.4078 847 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 995.4078 And, uh, 996.3712 848 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 996.3712 (pause 1.21) 997.5851 849 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 997.5851 they were dedicated people. 998.5095 850 DTA_int_03 999.5268 You didn't get these 1000.3332 851 DTA_int_03 1000.3332 (pause 0.15) 1000.4872 852 DTA_int_03 1000.4872 /dippy little things with wondering where's their [certificate/?] 1003.0359 853 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1002.9856 [No, no, no.] Uh, 1004.2264 854 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1004.6127 we have 1005.3682 855 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1005.3682 (pause 0.32) 1005.6889 856 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1005.6889 since 1006.2823 857 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1006.2823 (pause 0.54) 1006.8175 858 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1006.8175 felt that a good many of our teachers now are- 1009.0406 859 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1009.0406 (pause 0.85) 1009.8879 860 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1009.8879 are not dedicated to the [profession.] They're only using it as a means of an income and a means of an end. 1014.4813 861 DTA_int_03 1011.3097 [Yeah.] 1011.5329 862 DTA_int_03 1014.7960 Mm-hm. 1015.1446 863 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1016.6617 However in high school, I can definitely remember, 1019.1234 864 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1019.1234 (pause 0.31) 1019.4353 865 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1019.4353 um, 1020.0746 866 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1020.0746 (pause 2.05) 1022.1234 867 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1022.1234 two instances, 1022.9981 868 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1022.9981 (pause 0.50) 1023.4936 869 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1023.4936 one in 1024.0162 870 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1024.0162 (pause 0.37) 1024.3851 871 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1024.3851 one house, 1025.0867 872 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1025.0867 (pause 0.17) 1025.2610 873 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1025.2610 a youngster before married. 1026.3835 874 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1026.3835 (pause 0.75) 1027.1355 875 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1027.1355 I had a 1027.8297 876 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1027.8297 (pause 0.61) 1028.4414 877 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1028.4414 a homeroom teacher that 1029.5972 878 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1029.5972 (pause 0.41) 1030.0101 879 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1030.0101 liked to 1030.4841 880 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1030.4841 (pause 0.25) 1030.7349 881 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1030.7349 come along and 1031.3527 882 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1031.3527 (pause 0.51) 1031.8605 883 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1031.8605 pick up the youngsters, you know, and hold 'em up like that and shake 'em, even if they'd bruise up a guy. 1035.9306 884 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1035.9306 (pause 0.60) 1036.5269 885 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1036.5269 Course now he would've 1037.3436 886 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1037.3436 (pause 0.19) 1037.5301 887 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1037.5301 been arrested for assault and battery for doing the same thing. 1039.6673 888 DTA_int_03 1040.5424 [Yeah.] 1040.8054 889 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1040.5974 [Yeah,] yeah. But, uh, 1042.2547 890 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1042.5269 uh- he was an object- um, an /oject/- a- an objectionable person to me. 1046.0224 891 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1046.0224 (pause 0.46) 1046.4873 892 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1046.4873 I didn't like him. 1047.0960 893 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1047.0960 (pause 0.70) 1047.7960 894 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1047.7960 I didn't like him because of his man-handling of his students. And I've always felt that if he'd 1051.3740 895 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1051.3740 (pause 0.46) 1051.8328 896 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1051.8328 done that to me, I might've tried to kick him or something. 1053.7623 897 DTA_int_03 1054.3312 Did he ever 1054.7074 898 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1054.9672 [Yeah.] 1055.2255 899 DTA_int_03 1054.9918 [pull anything] on you? 1055.8115 900 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1056.3468 No. 1056.6644 901 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1056.6644 (pause 0.27) 1056.9366 902 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1056.9366 People don't do that to me. 1057.8940 903 DTA_int_03 1058.3497 [ /?/] 1059.3295 904 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1058.9033 [] 1059.0837 905 DTA_int_03 1060.6854 Who was the smartest kind if your class? 1062.0104 906 DTA_int_03 1062.0104 (pause 0.28) 1062.2886 907 DTA_int_03 1062.2886 Were you? 1062.5482 908 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1064.2640 Oh, well y- it- 1065.2362 909 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1065.2362 (pause 0.66) 1065.8969 910 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1065.8969 that's a r- 1066.3648 911 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1066.3648 (pause 0.35) 1066.7196 912 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1066.7196 unfair question. 1067.4751 913 DTA_int_03 1067.6464 Okay. 1068.0562 914 DTA_int_03 1068.0562 (pause 0.22) 1068.2729 915 DTA_int_03 1068.2729 Uh. 1068.5617 916 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1069.7838 Who was the smartest k-? 1070.6096 917 DTA_int_03 1071.6308 Yeah. 1071.8418 918 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1071.9519 Uh, 1072.1538 919 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1072.1538 (pause 1.16) 1073.3130 920 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1073.3130 well I would say I would rate in the top 1074.7164 921 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1074.7164 (pause 1.44) 1076.1600 922 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1076.1600 group. 1076.4873 923 DTA_int_03 1076.8757 Mm-hm. 1077.1660 924 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1077.4630 I was always more or less an A or B student in school. 1079.7259 925 DTA_int_03 1080.4446 Yeah, it's- 1080.8235 926 DTA_int_03 1080.8235 (pause 0.57) 1081.3924 927 DTA_int_03 1081.3924 this is a hard question to ask [to somebody,] right, [because] 1083.8724 928 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1082.5974 [Mm-hm.] 1082.9573 929 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1082.9573 (pause 0.79) 1083.7439 930 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1083.7439 [Yeah.] 1083.9152 931 DTA_int_03 1084.1630 depending on, they're reluctant to [answer] if it's them. (laughing) 1086.3284 932 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1085.4091 [Yeah.] 1085.7066 933 DTA_int_03 1086.9030 Uh, 1087.2364 934 DTA_int_03 1087.2364 (pause 1.31) 1088.5454 935 DTA_int_03 1088.5454 was there any- 1089.3523 936 DTA_int_03 1089.3523 (pause 1.50) 1090.8542 937 DTA_int_03 1090.8542 any special 1091.7779 938 DTA_int_03 1091.7779 (pause 0.16) 1091.9361 939 DTA_int_03 1091.9361 reward or any special 1093.1171 940 DTA_int_03 1093.1171 (pause 0.13) 1093.2455 941 DTA_int_03 1093.2455 favors you got for being bright? 1094.8233 942 DTA_int_03 1094.8233 (pause 2.33) 1097.1509 943 DTA_int_03 1097.1509 Could you do things that other- 1098.3117 944 DTA_int_03 1098.3117 (pause 0.12) 1098.4336 945 DTA_int_03 1098.4336 [privileges?] 1099.1354 946 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1098.9672 [No] I s- possibly had more work to do, that's all. 1101.1833 947 DTA_int_03 1101.4723 Yeah. [] 1102.4689 948 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1101.9586 [] 1102.5484 949 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1103.3804 I don't remember I had any privileges, I had more work. 1105.8849 950 DTA_int_03 1105.9491 Yeah. 1106.2030 951 DTA_int_03 1106.2030 (pause 0.70) 1106.9064 952 DTA_int_03 1106.9064 Who was the dumbest kid in the class? 1108.3282 953 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1108.7748 This I don't recall. 1109.6556 954 DTA_int_03 1110.8668 What did the teacher do to- 1111.9797 955 DTA_int_03 1111.9797 (pause 0.47) 1112.4477 956 DTA_int_03 1112.4477 uh, with the- 1113.2459 957 DTA_int_03 1113.2459 (pause 0.14) 1113.3866 958 DTA_int_03 1113.3866 with the really 1114.0835 959 DTA_int_03 1114.0835 (pause 0.12) 1114.2059 960 DTA_int_03 1114.2059 slow learners? 1114.9980 961 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1115.3804 And this I don't remember. 1116.5824 962 DTA_int_03 1116.7842 Mm-hm. 1117.0774 963 DTA_int_03 1117.0774 (pause 1.06) 1118.1387 964 DTA_int_03 1118.1387 What time did you get out of school? Do you remember? 1120.0834 965 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1120.7931 Oh, back in those days I think three o'clock, three thirty was the 1123.0785 966 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1123.0785 (pause 0.71) 1123.7931 967 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1123.7931 school closing 1124.5637 968 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1124.5637 (pause 0.38) 1124.9401 969 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1124.9401 [time.] 1125.1358 970 DTA_int_03 1125.1175 [And] fifteen minutes after three thirty is what time? 1127.3834 971 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1127.7933 Three forty-five. 1128.5273 972 DTA_int_03 1128.9310 Alright, put it terms of four. 1131.2245 973 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1132.4781 Hm? 1132.7105 974 DTA_int_03 1133.5914 Put it- if it- it's three forty-five, or it's a quarter? 1135.9540 975 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1136.0653 Quarter to four. 1136.6281 976 DTA_int_03 1136.8024 Mm-hm. 1137.0607 977 DTA_int_03 1137.0607 (pause 1.63) 1138.6922 978 DTA_int_03 1138.6922 [Uh.] 1138.9430 979 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1138.7625 [I can't] see that question. What's that? 1140.2429 980 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1140.3621 [] 1141.6463 981 DTA_int_03 1140.6302 [Oh.] 1140.8871 982 DTA_int_03 1142.0439 [People in the north] say, quarter to. People in the /east/ say, quarter of. 1144.7417 983 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1142.0470 [] 1142.5002 984 DTA_int_03 1145.2152 Or quarter- 1145.7739 985 DTA_int_03 1145.7739 (pause 0.41) 1146.1878 986 DTA_int_03 1146.1878 [quarter] til, or something like that. 1147.5943 987 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1146.2000 [Hm.] 1146.4692 988 DTA_int_03 1148.1020 /that's it/. 1148.7072 989 DTA_int_03 1148.7072 (pause 0.59) 1149.2948 990 DTA_int_03 1149.2948 Yeah, little words. 1149.9887 991 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1150.1264 [Mm-hm.] 1150.3986 992 DTA_int_03 1150.2854 [Um,] and sometimes we're chasing [words.] (laughing) 1152.9317 993 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1152.8515 [Yes.] 1153.4139 994 DTA_int_03 1154.9064 Uh, you didn't 1155.8026 995 DTA_int_03 1155.8026 (pause 0.16) 1155.9647 996 DTA_int_03 1155.9647 belong to any group 1157.0096 997 DTA_int_03 1157.0096 (pause 0.43) 1157.4354 998 DTA_int_03 1157.4354 except the scouts, did you? 1158.6994 999 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1159.6188 Oh, I was an altar boy. 1160.7565 1000 DTA_int_03 1161.5089 Mm-hm. 1161.8151 1001 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1161.8144 For years. 1162.4781 1002 DTA_int_03 1165.3986 Did the- 1165.8910 1003 DTA_int_03 1165.8910 (pause 0.18) 1166.0745 1004 DTA_int_03 1166.0745 did the altar boys have- 1167.7374 1005 DTA_int_03 1167.7374 (pause 0.66) 1168.3924 1006 DTA_int_03 1168.3924 have any 1168.9277 1007 DTA_int_03 1168.9277 (pause 1.17) 1170.0991 1008 DTA_int_03 1170.0991 special coherence as a group? 1171.7809 1009 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1172.3406 Yes, we were 1173.1541 1010 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1173.1541 (pause 0.17) 1173.3224 1011 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1173.3224 quite a tight little group. 1174.4536 1012 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1174.4536 (pause 1.25) 1175.7045 1013 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1175.7045 [Uh,] 1176.0257 1014 DTA_int_03 1175.7198 [Was there] one person that everybody listened to? 1177.7124 1015 DTA_int_03 1178.0714 In the- 1178.4079 1016 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1178.5975 Yes. 1179.0721 1017 DTA_int_03 1179.4386 who would that person be? 1180.2918 1018 DTA_int_03 1180.2918 (pause 0.31) 1180.6005 1019 DTA_int_03 1180.6005 Yeah. Why? 1182.8645 1020 DTA_int_03 1182.8645 (pause 0.84) 1183.7013 1021 DTA_int_03 1183.7013 Do you know? 1184.0225 1022 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1185.0777 Possibly, I've always been the leader? 1186.3374 1023 DTA_int_03 1186.7503 Mm-hm. 1186.9369 1024 DTA_int_03 1186.9369 (pause 1.58) 1188.5181 1025 DTA_int_03 1188.5181 Uh, 1188.8374 1026 DTA_int_03 1188.8374 (pause 1.02) 1189.8543 1027 DTA_int_03 1189.8543 was it possible 1190.8010 1028 DTA_int_03 1190.8010 (pause 0.16) 1190.9563 1029 DTA_int_03 1190.9563 for 1191.2184 1030 DTA_int_03 1191.2184 (pause 0.76) 1191.9799 1031 DTA_int_03 1191.9799 new people to crash the group? 1193.4599 1032 DTA_int_03 1193.4599 (pause 0.69) 1194.1450 1033 DTA_int_03 1194.1450 To get into it? 1194.8633 1034 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1196.6837 Not too easy. We were a established bunch. 1198.3343 1035 DTA_int_03 1198.6860 1199.4218 1036 DTA_int_03 1199.4218 (pause 1.08) 1200.5059 1037 DTA_int_03 1200.5059 Yeah. 1200.7831 1038 DTA_int_03 1200.7831 (pause 0.26) 1201.0428 1039 DTA_int_03 1201.0428 Yeah. 1201.3171 1040 DTA_int_03 1201.3171 (pause 1.42) 1202.7382 1041 DTA_int_03 1202.7382 Uh, 1203.0379 1042 DTA_int_03 1203.0379 (pause 0.81) 1203.8484 1043 DTA_int_03 1203.8484 if you could do it all over again, 1205.3956 1044 DTA_int_03 1205.3956 (pause 0.83) 1206.2245 1045 DTA_int_03 1206.2245 would- 1206.4539 1046 DTA_int_03 1206.4539 (pause 0.25) 1206.7049 1047 DTA_int_03 1206.7049 would you do anything different? 1207.7963 1048 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1208.7229 Yes, I would've possibly go in for a PhD. 1211.2676 1049 DTA_int_03 1211.8391 Yeah. 1212.0593 1050 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1212.9371 [Definitely.] 1213.6402 1051 DTA_int_03 1213.0609 [/inaudible/] 1213.4866 1052 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1213.7594 Hm? 1214.0837 1053 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1214.0837 (pause 2.13) 1216.2181 1054 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1216.2181 Inherently and by nature, a teacher. 1218.3927 1055 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1218.3927 (pause 1.43) 1219.8237 1056 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1219.8237 Oh, well I think uh, possibly if I've ever had any unfulfilled realities, 1224.5334 1057 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1224.5334 (pause 1.27) 1225.8084 1058 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1225.8084 I would've been teaching on a college level. 1228.2425 1059 DTA_int_03 1228.8359 What would you teach? Do you know? 1229.9156 1060 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1230.7200 Oh, I don't know. I've had a yen for philosophy. 1233.1235 1061 DTA_int_03 1233.5640 [Mm-hm.] 1233.8606 1062 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1233.8178 [And] a yen for archaeology. 1235.3678 1063 DTA_int_03 1236.7414 Hm. 1236.9677 1064 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1236.9677 I'd possibly go into one of those two fields. 1238.7614 1065 DTA_int_03 1239.0471 Mm-hm. 1239.3025 1066 DTA_int_03 1239.3025 (pause 1.16) 1240.4597 1067 DTA_int_03 1240.4597 Uh, you wouldn't be interested in something like police ed /would you/? 1243.5217 1068 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1244.0225 Hm? 1244.3283 1069 DTA_int_03 1244.4782 You wouldn't be interested in something like police ed, then? 1246.7985 1070 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1247.9859 Yes. 1248.5120 1071 DTA_int_03 1248.6531 And in teaching it? 1249.7829 1072 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1250.0439 [I- yes.] 1250.5730 1073 DTA_int_03 1250.1050 [I just think] of it because I wish we had such a school. 1252.4689 1074 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1252.7992 I- yes, because, uh- of course in those days didn't have any courses like that. 1255.8175 1075 DTA_int_03 1256.0530 Yeah. 1256.2335 1076 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1256.5026 Now let's see, comparatively in the last twenty years. The first one was at Northwestern University. 1260.1480 1077 DTA_int_03 1260.6064 Mm-hm. 1260.8981 1078 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1260.9677 And if I'd've had an opportunity at that time, I would have possibly gone into- see, police work is my- 1265.1846 1079 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1265.1846 (pause 0.23) 1265.4109 1080 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1265.4109 more or less my 1266.1266 1081 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1266.1266 (pause 0.62) 1266.7475 1082 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1266.7475 profession. 1267.3985 1083 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1267.3985 (pause 1.17) 1268.5669 1084 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1268.5669 And, uh, I woulda gone into that. 1270.5147 1085 DTA_int_03 1272.2092 Some of my 1272.8147 1086 DTA_int_03 1272.8147 (pause 0.40) 1273.2119 1087 DTA_int_03 1273.2119 best friend- closest friends [are in /police/.] 1275.5089 1088 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1274.6678 [Mm-hm.] 1274.9639 1089 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1274.9639 (pause 0.39) 1275.3529 1090 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1275.3529 [Mm-hm.] 1275.5945 1091 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1275.9768 Yeah, I, uh, 1276.6677 1092 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1276.6677 (pause 0.75) 1277.4186 1093 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1277.4186 I highly recommend it for anyone that's interested in that line of social work. 1280.5271 1094 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1280.5271 (pause 0.72) 1281.2428 1095 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1281.2428 I spent eight years as a police officer myself. And, uh, 1284.2917 1096 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1284.2917 (pause 0.73) 1285.0197 1097 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1285.0197 I had to call in service training courses that I could take Michigan State before they had a police ed course up there. 1289.6280 1098 DTA_int_03 1289.8391 Yeah. 1290.1583 1099 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1290.8117 And, uh, 1291.4676 1100 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1291.4676 (pause 0.51) 1291.9735 1101 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1291.9735 I definitely would've gone into something like that. No doubt. 1294.4536 1102 DTA_int_03 1296.9921 Um, 1297.3496 1103 DTA_int_03 1297.3496 (pause 0.15) 1297.5025 1104 DTA_int_03 1297.5025 but you /unintelligible/ teacher? 1299.0370 1105 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1300.1359 I [wouldn't-] 1300.5056 1106 DTA_int_03 1300.3159 [Rather than the-] 1300.8157 1107 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1300.9949 [I-] 1301.1815 1108 DTA_int_03 1301.0934 [be] in [administration.] 1302.1586 1109 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1301.8574 [well,] uh- let's see, I possibly wouldn't 1303.8665 1110 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1304.4476 administration side of education doesn't appeal to me. 1306.8298 1111 DTA_int_03 1307.3772 Mm-hm. 1307.7167 1112 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1307.7595 I like teaching. 1308.4866 1113 DTA_int_03 1308.8327 [Mm-hm.] 1309.1018 1114 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1308.9734 [A-] 1309.1385 1115 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1309.3924 In fact I 1310.0286 1116 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1310.0286 (pause 2.14) 1312.1661 1117 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1312.1661 still do some teaching as a- more or less as a 1314.9626 1118 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1314.9626 (pause 0.15) 1315.1171 1119 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1315.1171 hobby. 1315.5917 1120 DTA_int_03 1315.8236 Mm-hm. 1316.1342 1121 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1316.3558 I teach a course 1317.3743 1122 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1317.3743 (pause 0.20) 1317.5700 1123 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1317.5700 at 1318.1607 1124 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1318.1607 (pause 0.54) 1318.7013 1125 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1318.7013 /RD-WORK-5/ of [course. And] I teach in, uh, 1321.5881 1126 DTA_int_03 1320.0176 [Mm-hm.] 1320.2556 1127 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1321.8940 Christian Doctrine and Lay Theology. 1323.7230 1128 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1323.7230 (pause 0.61) 1324.3343 1129 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1324.3343 Have been doing that since about nineteen forty-eight. 1326.6557 1130 DTA_int_03 1326.9187 Mm-hm. 1327.1875 1131 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1327.7930 So, 1328.2641 1132 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1328.2641 (pause 0.15) 1328.4139 1133 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1328.4139 uh, 1328.9186 1134 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1328.9186 (pause 0.19) 1329.1113 1135 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1329.1113 teaching is just a thing that's 1330.2945 1136 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1330.2945 (pause 0.13) 1330.4199 1137 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1330.4199 natural. 1330.9714 1138 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1330.9714 (pause 0.38) 1331.3497 1139 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1331.3497 Course, I married a gal whose family are teachers so we- 1333.7716 1140 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1333.7716 (pause 0.36) 1334.1295 1141 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1334.1295 [we both] are teachers too. And she teaches a class like I do. 1337.0194 1142 DTA_int_03 1334.1815 [] 1334.4034 1143 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1338.4141 And, uh, 1339.2093 1144 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1339.2093 (pause 1.13) 1340.3436 1145 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1340.3436 I think if we'd had anything at all we'd possibly might have 1343.2732 1146 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1343.2732 (pause 0.64) 1343.9094 1147 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1343.9094 studied law together. 1345.1660 1148 DTA_int_03 1345.3679 Mm-hm. 1345.7133 1149 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1345.9643 Because 1346.5301 1150 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1346.5301 (pause 0.15) 1346.6800 1151 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1346.6800 there is a legal trend, uh, tendency there. 1349.1601 1152 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1349.1601 (pause 0.47) 1349.6341 1153 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1349.6341 Or we've gone in- 1350.4660 1154 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1350.4660 (pause 0.12) 1350.5853 1155 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1350.5853 she wouldn't have gone in for teaching, I would have. 1352.3803 1156 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1352.3803 (pause 0.16) 1352.5393 1157 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1352.5393 She doesn't like to teach on a professional level. 1354.7538 1158 DTA_int_03 1355.4904 How do you feel about the 1356.7535 1159 DTA_int_03 1356.7535 (pause 0.19) 1356.9458 1160 DTA_int_03 1356.9458 trend of the 1357.6707 1161 DTA_int_03 1357.6707 (pause 0.24) 1357.9062 1162 DTA_int_03 1357.9062 recent supreme court decisions? 1359.6535 1163 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1359.8117 On what? 1360.3465 1164 DTA_int_03 1360.4413 Toward, uh- 1361.0552 1165 DTA_int_03 1361.0552 (pause 0.39) 1361.4445 1166 DTA_int_03 1361.4445 toward interrogation for- 1362.9483 1167 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1363.2517 Oh, I think it's cramping their style. The only thing I can say for commendable is that it's bringing us in line of the English, 1369.6615 1168 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1369.6615 (pause 0.74) 1370.3986 1169 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1370.3986 uh, 1370.9400 1170 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1370.9400 (pause 0.53) 1371.4722 1171 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1371.4722 basic law 1372.4780 1172 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1372.4780 (pause 0.54) 1373.0194 1173 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1373.0194 for the rights of the individual. 1374.3284 1174 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1374.3284 (pause 0.50) 1374.8300 1175 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1374.8300 However, this is not practical in the United States. 1377.1999 1176 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1377.1999 (pause 0.29) 1377.4936 1177 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1377.4936 I don't think we have reached a point where 1379.1019 1178 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1379.1019 (pause 0.40) 1379.4995 1179 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1379.4995 the citizen is going to respect the law. 1381.5147 1180 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1381.5147 (pause 0.57) 1382.0805 1181 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1382.0805 For the sake of law itself. 1383.4839 1182 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1383.4839 (pause 1.07) 1384.5575 1183 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1384.5575 And til we reach that 1385.5026 1184 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1385.5026 (pause 0.16) 1385.6647 1185 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1385.6647 type of culture and of growth and development, 1388.5882 1186 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1388.5882 (pause 0.48) 1389.0684 1187 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1389.0684 uh, we still have to enforce the law. 1390.8366 1188 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1390.8366 (pause 0.37) 1391.2090 1189 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1391.2090 As long as we have to enforce the law, then we must have some privileges and some rights to do it with. 1395.0745 1190 DTA_int_03 1395.3101 Okay. 1395.5626 1191 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1395.6893 I can imagine myself now, 1397.3741 1192 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1397.3741 (pause 0.62) 1397.9950 1193 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1397.9950 uh, 1398.5058 1194 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1398.5058 (pause 0.38) 1398.8881 1195 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1398.8881 if I were a police officer now, 1400.3597 1196 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1400.3597 (pause 0.90) 1401.2550 1197 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1401.2550 that all the things I had learned 1402.4566 1198 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1402.4566 (pause 0.30) 1402.7563 1199 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1402.7563 would have to be 1403.2457 1200 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1403.2457 (pause 0.94) 1404.1877 1201 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1404.1877 retrained. 1404.8606 1202 DTA_int_03 1405.6056 [Yeah.] 1405.8420 1203 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1405.7166 [Um,] that is that 1406.6178 1204 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1407.7841 I could walk up to a man as a police officer and say- 1410.0675 1205 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1410.0675 (pause 0.10) 1410.1664 1206 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1410.1664 show him my badge, and say, I wanna talk to you at the station come along. 1412.4170 1207 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1412.4170 (pause 0.98) 1413.3987 1208 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1413.3987 And he went along. I didn't have to explain to him then 1415.4944 1209 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1415.4944 (pause 0.20) 1415.6953 1210 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1415.6953 why. 1416.0715 1211 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1416.0715 (pause 0.31) 1416.3804 1212 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1416.3804 I could keep him, 1417.1354 1213 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1417.1354 (pause 0.45) 1417.5820 1214 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1417.5820 uh, in the dark for 1419.1479 1215 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1419.1479 (pause 0.89) 1420.0410 1216 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1420.0410 a couple of days before I call him out, and I'd let him 1422.0195 1217 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1422.0195 (pause 0.19) 1422.2091 1218 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1422.2091 ponder in there what it is I was talking about. This was standard technique. 1424.7687 1219 DTA_int_03 1425.0837 Mm-hm. 1425.3498 1220 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1425.4997 And I call him out and I'd set him down in the room, and 1427.7320 1221 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1427.7320 (pause 0.69) 1428.4201 1222 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1428.4201 I could talk to him in any manner in which I wanted to talk to him. After first telling him of course that he had his rights. 1433.3529 1223 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1433.3529 (pause 0.70) 1434.0501 1224 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1434.0501 Uh. [] 1435.8511 1225 DTA_int_03 1435.6658 [Yeah.] 1436.5546 1226 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1436.6158 But, uh, that didn't mean much. 1438.3128 1227 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1438.3128 (pause 0.36) 1438.6737 1228 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1438.6737 And by that time he was scared stiff and would talk. And if he had an attorney, I could 1442.0132 1229 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1442.0132 (pause 0.26) 1442.2732 1230 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1442.2732 run him from place to place without his attorney knowing where he was. 1445.0378 1231 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1445.0378 (pause 0.71) 1445.7442 1232 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1445.7442 And, uh, 1446.6189 1233 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1446.6189 (pause 0.61) 1447.2333 1234 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1447.2333 absolutely and under most circumstances without a court order, refuse to let his 1450.6584 1235 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1450.6584 (pause 0.28) 1450.9429 1236 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1450.9429 attorney see him. 1451.5393 1237 DTA_int_03 1452.0072 Yeah. 1452.2801 1238 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1452.3773 See. 1452.5822 1239 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1452.5822 (pause 0.21) 1452.7963 1240 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1452.7963 Now this is all done away with, so. 1454.2120 1241 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1454.2120 (pause 0.53) 1454.7411 1242 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1454.7411 [I-] 1455.0713 1243 DTA_int_03 1454.7962 [No, I-] I- [some] people have- have suggested that that maybe now it's a question of 1459.1037 1244 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1455.4312 [I think it's-] 1455.7867 1245 DTA_int_03 1459.3893 whether or not the waiver of attorney was done /unintelligible/. (laughing) 1463.5240 1246 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1464.0592 Yeah. 1464.4630 1247 DTA_int_03 1464.4630 1464.6159 1248 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1464.7902 That's right. 1465.3281 1249 DTA_int_03 1465.6248 But they just moved it one step [back.] (laughing) 1467.7347 1250 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1467.2336 [Yeah.] 1467.4527 1251 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1468.8603 I don't agree with all the concepts of the court, although I know from English law that this is right. 1473.9917 1252 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1473.9917 (pause 1.10) 1475.0927 1253 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1475.0927 But, uh, I don't think it's practical at the present time and I think it's only aiding and abetting 1479.7137 1254 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1479.7137 (pause 0.43) 1480.1389 1255 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1480.1389 what we have out here now. This type of, uh- 1482.6832 1256 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1482.6832 (pause 0.75) 1483.4351 1257 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1483.4351 uh, /hoodlism/ that we're having where- 1485.0715 1258 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1485.0715 (pause 0.18) 1485.2550 1259 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1485.2550 where 1485.6105 1260 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1485.6105 (pause 0.45) 1486.0559 1261 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1486.0559 a policeman is 1486.8022 1262 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1486.8022 (pause 0.43) 1487.2304 1263 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1487.2304 ridiculed. There's no longer respect for him. I watched this last night, 1490.2212 1264 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1490.2212 (pause 1.02) 1491.2397 1265 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1491.2397 uh, coming home from work. 1492.3587 1266 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1492.3587 (pause 0.33) 1492.6859 1267 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1492.6859 About twelve thirty up past the bar here, and, uh, 1495.0410 1268 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1495.0410 (pause 0.53) 1495.5758 1269 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1495.5758 there was a little disturbance outside the bar and- 1497.6648 1270 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1497.6648 (pause 0.34) 1498.0074 1271 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1498.0074 and, uh, 1498.6462 1272 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1498.6462 (pause 0.49) 1499.1386 1273 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1499.1386 a bunch of Negros involved in this. 1500.6984 1274 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1500.6984 (pause 0.73) 1501.4290 1275 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1501.4290 And they had a scout car and, uh, 1503.5261 1276 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1503.5261 (pause 0.17) 1503.6984 1277 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1503.6984 this 1504.0257 1278 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1504.0257 (pause 0.56) 1504.5819 1279 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1504.5819 uh, tactical 1505.3282 1280 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1505.3282 (pause 0.33) 1505.6555 1281 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1505.6555 force car there. 1506.5822 1282 DTA_int_03 1506.7504 Mm-hm. 1507.0305 1283 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1507.3495 And 1507.8113 1284 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1507.8113 (pause 0.46) 1508.2732 1285 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1508.2732 the police officers were attempting to question some people while being heckled by 1511.9736 1286 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1511.9736 (pause 0.56) 1512.5302 1287 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1512.5302 a group of bystanders. Well I can remember if that had been me, I'd have grabbed 'em and I'd stick 'em. 1516.0135 1288 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1516.0135 (pause 0.22) 1516.2332 1289 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1516.2332 Crack somebody across the head, and shoved him in the car, and had it broken it all up. I woulda had no more problems. 1520.3710 1290 DTA_int_03 1520.9338 [/unintelligible/] 1522.4321 1291 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1521.0470 [Now, the poor-] 1521.6373 1292 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1521.6373 (pause 0.39) 1522.0314 1293 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1522.0314 [yeah.] 1522.3189 1294 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1522.7777 Now the poor fellas had to stand there and try to- 1525.0960 1295 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1525.0960 (pause 0.15) 1525.2486 1296 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1525.2486 to question the persons and 1526.9117 1297 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1526.9117 (pause 0.58) 1527.4905 1298 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1527.4905 remembering all of their rights and that they had witnesses there who were gonna testify against them if they raised one little finger. And I felt sorry for them. 1533.6434 1299 DTA_int_03 1534.1629 Mm-hm. 1534.4260 1300 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1534.6615 So. 1535.0835 1301 DTA_int_03 1535.2732 Don't you feel though that 1536.2152 1302 DTA_int_03 1536.2152 (pause 0.21) 1536.4262 1303 DTA_int_03 1536.4262 things like 1537.0358 1304 DTA_int_03 1537.0358 (pause 0.53) 1537.5636 1305 DTA_int_03 1537.5636 interrogation procedures were always rough on a /Black kid/? 1540.3313 1306 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1540.7502 Definitely so. 1541.5730 1307 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1541.5730 (pause 1.20) 1542.7718 1308 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1542.7718 Definitely so. 1543.5085 1309 DTA_int_03 1544.0363 Did do you think it's still the case? 1545.2625 1310 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1545.6862 Uh, yes. 1546.4474 1311 DTA_int_03 1547.7075 Uh, 1548.0592 1312 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1548.1448 Don't /expect/ change in the white man's concept. 1549.8847 1313 DTA_int_03 1550.1569 1550.4383 1314 DTA_int_03 1550.4383 (pause 0.12) 1550.5576 1315 DTA_int_03 1550.5576 Yeah. 1550.8665 1316 DTA_int_03 1550.8665 (pause 2.48) 1553.3496 1317 DTA_int_03 1553.3496 Uh, 1553.6210 1318 DTA_int_03 1553.6210 (pause 1.66) 1555.2791 1319 DTA_int_03 1555.2791 have you ever read 1555.9583 1320 DTA_int_03 1555.9583 (pause 0.17) 1556.1263 1321 DTA_int_03 1556.1263 any of Chester Himes' 1557.3334 1322 DTA_int_03 1557.3334 (pause 0.23) 1557.5598 1323 DTA_int_03 1557.5598 novels? 1558.0257 1324 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1558.1048 No. 1558.3464 1325 DTA_int_03 1558.3700 Novel. 1558.8516 1326 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1559.0315 [If it's] a novel? No. 1560.0194 1327 DTA_int_03 1559.0315 [You-] 1559.2439 1328 DTA_int_03 1560.2672 You might enjoy it. He's 1561.4766 1329 DTA_int_03 1561.4766 (pause 0.24) 1561.7165 1330 DTA_int_03 1561.7165 got- they're detective 1562.8776 1331 DTA_int_03 1562.8776 (pause 0.19) 1563.0678 1332 DTA_int_03 1563.0678 things about a couple of 1564.2689 1333 DTA_int_03 1564.2689 (pause 0.60) 1564.8694 1334 DTA_int_03 1564.8694 Negro cops in Harlem. 1566.0130 1335 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1566.0439 Mm-hm. It should be quite interesting to me. 1567.6553 1336 DTA_int_03 1567.6951 Mm-hm. Similar. 1568.4163 1337 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1568.6738 Mm-hm. 1568.9644 1338 DTA_int_03 1569.4935 Himes writes for 1570.4259 1339 DTA_int_03 1570.4259 (pause 0.22) 1570.6488 1340 DTA_int_03 1570.6488 /??/ you might [like.] 1571.6148 1341 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1571.4322 [Mm-hm.] 1571.6738 1342 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1572.2549 The reason I said, uh, no is that 1574.6983 1343 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1574.6983 (pause 0.93) 1575.6311 1344 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1575.6311 when you look over in the shelves, I don't think you find a- a hardly a 1578.5307 1345 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1578.5307 (pause 0.94) 1579.4688 1346 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1579.4688 novel there. 1580.2854 1347 DTA_int_03 1580.4567 Yeah. 1580.7564 1348 DTA_int_03 1580.7564 (pause 0.30) 1581.0561 1349 DTA_int_03 1581.0561 Yeah. 1581.2427 1350 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1582.2700 Uh, 1582.7287 1351 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1582.7287 (pause 0.53) 1583.2622 1352 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1583.2622 We have a /purely/ old collection from, uh, 1585.0742 1353 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1585.0742 (pause 0.50) 1585.5789 1354 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1585.5789 Reader's Digest, and I haven't read one of them. 1587.3069 1355 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1587.3069 (pause 0.28) 1587.5822 1356 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1587.5822 I don't read novels. 1588.7715 1357 DTA_int_03 1588.9367 Oh. 1589.2023 1358 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1590.4819 And, uh, so usually when you say, novel I say, no. 1593.1020 1359 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1593.1020 (pause 0.30) 1593.4048 1360 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1593.4048 I haven't read it. 1593.9641 1361 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1593.9641 (pause 0.36) 1594.3250 1362 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1594.3250 But once in a while there's something of interest that I would read. 1596.5831 1363 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1596.5831 (pause 0.62) 1597.1996 1364 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1597.1996 And that is something if I ever came in contact with, I possibly would read it. 1600.0563 1365 DTA_int_03 1600.3892 Mm-hm. My husband's a fan of detective fiction, anyway. 1603.4752 1366 DTA_int_03 1603.4752 (pause 1.71) 1605.1815 1367 DTA_int_03 1605.1815 Uh, what do they call this part of town? 1606.6920 1368 DTA_int_03 1606.6920 (pause 0.32) 1607.0101 1369 DTA_int_03 1607.0101 Is there a name for the neighborhood? 1608.3658 1370 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1609.3372 No, there's- 1610.3527 1371 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1610.3527 (pause 0.48) 1610.8328 1372 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1610.8328 they like to 1611.2641 1373 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1611.2641 (pause 0.26) 1611.5253 1374 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1611.5253 refer to this as Highland Park, because Highland Park is 1614.3344 1375 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1614.3344 (pause 0.34) 1614.6739 1376 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1614.6739 that building across the street and this building next door to me. 1616.8910 1377 DTA_int_03 1617.2786 Yeah. 1617.5667 1378 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1617.7749 This is Detroit here, however. 1619.0804 1379 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1619.0804 (pause 0.97) 1620.0469 1380 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1620.0469 So a lot of people refer to this as Highland Park, but it's actually the West Side of Detroit. 1624.9856 1381 DTA_int_03 1625.2884 Mm-hm. 1625.5859 1382 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1625.7717 Very the best way we can put it. 1626.9859 1383 DTA_int_03 1627.3190 Yeah. 1627.5309 1384 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1627.7562 And, uh, 1628.5637 1385 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1628.5637 (pause 0.56) 1629.1265 1386 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1629.1265 geographically, they sometimes refer to it as the Northwest Side of Detroit. 1632.4292 1387 DTA_int_03 1632.7993 Mm-hm. 1633.0624 1388 DTA_int_03 1633.0624 (pause 1.04) 1634.0988 1389 DTA_int_03 1634.0988 What are some of the streets of Detroit? 1635.7473 1390 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1638.1234 Well, uh, 1639.0868 1391 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1639.0868 (pause 0.22) 1639.3036 1392 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1639.3036 [] 1640.3942 1393 DTA_int_03 1640.1722 [What are] the big ones? 1640.9181 1394 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1641.6097 Woodward Avenue, 1642.5972 1395 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1642.5972 (pause 0.17) 1642.7623 1396 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1642.7623 Grand River, 1643.5147 1397 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1643.5147 (pause 0.64) 1644.1570 1398 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1644.1570 Jefferson, Gratiot, 1645.5462 1399 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1645.5462 (pause 0.48) 1646.0223 1400 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1646.0223 Harper, Van Dyke, 1647.5577 1401 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1647.5577 (pause 1.16) 1648.7134 1402 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1648.7134 uh- and, uh. Well, you see, I'm orientated now to the East Side of Detroit so I begin to mention East Side streets. 1654.3770 1403 DTA_int_03 1654.4412 Yeah, I [gathered- ] I caught that. 1656.2669 1404 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1654.7287 [] 1655.2932 1405 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1656.3436 Yeah. (laughing) 1656.8196 1406 DTA_int_03 1657.6461 The first time I've heard Gratiot from anybody living in west [Detroit.] 1660.7409 1407 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1660.5727 [I-] yeah, well see, my area of work 1663.2111 1408 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1663.4412 is e- 1664.1202 1409 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1664.1202 (pause 0.76) 1664.8756 1410 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1664.8756 east of Woodward Avenue. 1665.9952 1411 DTA_int_03 1666.2669 Mm-hm. 1666.6278 1412 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1666.9550 So I drive some three hundred miles 1668.5332 1413 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1668.5332 (pause 0.49) 1669.0256 1414 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1669.0256 in the course of a week in the East Side of Detroit, so I think of the East Side. 1671.8819 1415 DTA_int_03 1672.9611 And what's the one down by Cobo Hall? 1674.5923 1416 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1676.0437 Jefferson Avenue. 1676.8390 1417 DTA_int_03 1677.0530 Mm-hm. 1677.2287 1418 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1677.2457 And Woodward. 1677.6066 1419 DTA_int_03 1678.8877 Uh, where were you born? 1680.0839 1420 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1680.3467 Springfield, Ohio. 1681.2883 1421 DTA_int_03 1681.7134 Really? 1681.9485 1422 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1682.2578 Mm-hm. 1682.6004 1423 DTA_int_03 1682.8603 Uh, when did you come to Detroit? 1684.2071 1424 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1685.3373 Three years and eight months. 1686.3997 1425 DTA_int_03 1686.8417 Uh-huh. Okay. 1688.4046 1426 DTA_int_03 1688.4046 (pause 0.63) 1689.0316 1427 DTA_int_03 1689.0316 Uh, where else- where have you lived in Detroit besides this part? 1692.0836 1428 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1693.4442 Well 1693.8938 1429 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1693.8938 (pause 1.35) 1695.2488 1430 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1695.2488 it's been a mixture of both the East Side and the West Side of Detroit. 1697.8848 1431 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1697.8848 (pause 0.90) 1698.7871 1432 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1698.7871 The lower East Side, 1700.0101 1433 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1700.0101 (pause 1.30) 1701.3130 1434 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1701.3130 and, uh, 1702.4442 1435 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1702.4442 (pause 1.17) 1703.6187 1436 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1703.6187 the West Side, and far West Side. 1705.3892 1437 DTA_int_03 1705.8419 Mm-hm. 1706.1630 1438 DTA_int_03 1706.1630 (pause 1.00) 1707.1668 1439 DTA_int_03 1707.1668 So you've- 1707.6770 1440 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1710.5638 That's our oldest child. 1711.4718 1441 DTA_int_03 1713.0530 /unintelligible/ 1713.8686 1442 DTA_int_03 1713.8686 (pause 1.63) 1715.4964 1443 DTA_int_03 1715.4964 Do people generally move across Woodward? 1717.6430 1444 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1719.1173 Well, uh, I think that there has always been a trend, uh, for East Siders to move to West Side. 1724.7841 1445 DTA_int_03 1725.5302 Yeah. 1725.7711 1446 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1725.7901 Or to /?/ the far East Side. 1727.8737 1447 DTA_int_03 1728.0133 Mm-hm. 1728.3344 1448 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1728.8115 Uh, 1729.2019 1449 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1729.2019 (pause 0.93) 1730.1324 1450 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1730.1324 in 1730.7231 1451 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1730.7231 (pause 0.62) 1731.3405 1452 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1731.3405 the cultural group that we belonged to at the time- e- ethnic group that we belonged to at the time, 1735.6430 1453 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1735.6430 (pause 0.79) 1736.4291 1454 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1736.4291 those who lived on the East Side- central East Side that is, around 1739.7972 1455 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1739.7972 (pause 0.52) 1740.3191 1456 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1740.3191 the Woodward, John R, Brush area always moved to the West Side. 1743.3895 1457 DTA_int_03 1743.8024 Mm-hm. 1744.1042 1458 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1744.2607 And those who lived 1745.4087 1459 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1745.4087 (pause 0.54) 1745.9490 1460 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1745.9490 on the East Side had a little s- 1747.9996 1461 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1747.9996 (pause 0.21) 1748.2119 1462 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1748.2119 social culture of their own there, and it remained there. 1750.8909 1463 DTA_int_03 1751.2914 Mm-hm. 1751.5991 1464 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1751.7227 So it depends more or less 1752.9476 1465 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1752.9476 (pause 0.23) 1753.1751 1466 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1753.1751 where you were first /orientated/ 1754.8005 1467 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1754.8005 (pause 0.74) 1755.5451 1468 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1755.5451 and are oriented. 1756.8785 1469 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1756.8785 (pause 0.52) 1757.3954 1470 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1757.3954 And from there you 1758.8115 1471 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1758.8115 (pause 1.21) 1760.0253 1472 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1760.0253 follow the trend. 1761.1356 1473 DTA_int_03 1761.3700 [Mm-hm.] 1761.7212 1474 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1761.5760 [Either] to the West Side of Detroit or to the far East Side. 1764.2549 1475 DTA_int_03 1765.5513 We were told as a general rule that 1767.4843 1476 DTA_int_03 1767.4843 (pause 0.53) 1768.0164 1477 DTA_int_03 1768.0164 Detroiters tended to respect Woodward as being a [dividing-] 1771.2760 1478 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1770.9125 [The dividing] line, that's right. Mm-hm. 1772.6065 1479 DTA_int_03 1774.4259 Uh, 1774.6494 1480 DTA_int_03 1774.6494 (pause 0.83) 1775.4749 1481 DTA_int_03 1775.4749 have you gone 1776.1478 1482 DTA_int_03 1776.1478 (pause 1.03) 1777.1785 1483 DTA_int_03 1777.1785 out of Detroit on trips? 1778.4822 1484 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1779.0867 Oh, yes. We've taken frequent trips. 1780.7134 1485 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1780.7134 (pause 1.04) 1781.7563 1486 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1781.7563 Family- 1782.2090 1487 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1782.2090 (pause 0.54) 1782.7442 1488 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1782.7442 usually we move together as a family group, although my wife and I sometimes 1786.5727 1489 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1786.5727 (pause 0.44) 1787.0131 1490 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1787.0131 have interests that take us out of the city. 1788.6219 1491 DTA_int_03 1789.0711 Yeah. 1789.2485 1492 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1789.5039 Um, 1790.0712 1493 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1790.0712 (pause 0.16) 1790.2303 1494 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1790.2303 very seldom do we go 1791.2793 1495 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1791.2793 (pause 0.33) 1791.6097 1496 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1791.6097 separately. 1792.2515 1497 DTA_int_03 1792.6797 Mm-hm. 1792.9336 1498 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1793.6095 Except 1794.0681 1499 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1794.0681 (pause 0.92) 1794.9920 1500 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1794.9920 some occasions she's had to go 1796.6248 1501 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1796.6248 (pause 1.18) 1797.8023 1502 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1797.8023 because of her organizational work. 1799.2945 1503 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1799.2945 (pause 0.51) 1799.8083 1504 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1799.8083 [It's taken] her farther west than I have been. 1802.0620 1505 DTA_int_03 1799.8644 [Mm-hm.] 1800.2367 1506 DTA_int_03 1802.8175 How far west have you been? 1804.0680 1507 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1804.6614 Fargo- 1805.4146 1508 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1805.4146 (pause 0.78) 1806.1968 1509 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1806.1968 Let's see now, I've been as far- 1807.4014 1510 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1807.4014 (pause 0.11) 1807.5146 1511 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1807.5146 I've been as far as, uh- 1809.1876 1512 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1809.1876 (pause 0.86) 1810.0440 1513 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1810.0440 as, um, 1811.0253 1514 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1811.0253 (pause 0.57) 1811.5912 1515 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1811.5912 Omaha, 1812.3574 1516 DTA_int_03 1812.5729 Mm-hm. 1812.8329 1517 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1812.8692 Nebraska. 1813.6247 1518 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1813.6247 (pause 0.78) 1814.4046 1519 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1814.4046 And, um, 1815.3914 1520 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1815.3914 (pause 0.96) 1816.3525 1521 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1816.3525 I guess that's nearly as far west as I've been. 1818.3374 1522 DTA_int_03 1818.7717 Mm-hm. 1819.0680 1523 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1819.7409 Most of our traveling been in the east 1821.8278 1524 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1821.8278 (pause 0.21) 1822.0409 1525 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1822.0409 and the central section Un- of the United States. 1824.5944 1526 DTA_int_03 1824.7412 Where do you like to go? 1825.6675 1527 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1827.3803 Well we don't go where we like, we usually go where we have to go. [At- when] we are just 1831.9213 1528 DTA_int_03 1830.2334 [Mm-hm.] 1830.5643 1529 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1832.1324 traveling or n- we're just 1833.3986 1530 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1833.3986 (pause 0.25) 1833.6525 1531 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1833.6525 tripping for the pleasure, it's a- 1835.2211 1532 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1835.2211 (pause 0.23) 1835.4474 1533 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1835.4474 ab- 1835.6493 1534 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1835.6493 (pause 0.66) 1836.3130 1535 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1836.3130 Northern Michigan. 1836.8635 1536 DTA_int_03 1837.2546 Mm-hm. 1837.5013 1537 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1837.5013 That's where we usually- we try to spend on our vacations when we have that kind of time. 1840.4350 1538 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1841.0926 We go up the Upper Peninsula some place. 1842.9277 1539 DTA_int_03 1843.3769 Mm-hm. 1843.6468 1540 DTA_int_03 1843.6468 (pause 0.72) 1844.3709 1541 DTA_int_03 1844.3709 If you had all the money in the world, what would you do with it? 1846.4593 1542 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1847.1171 Give most of it away, I think. 1848.4322 1543 DTA_int_03 1848.7106 Mm-hm. 1849.0458 1544 DTA_int_03 1849.0458 (pause 0.96) 1850.0039 1545 DTA_int_03 1850.0039 Would you go back to school? 1851.0067 1546 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1852.0195 At this age I wouldn't have to. 1853.3006 1547 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1853.3006 (pause 0.20) 1853.5024 1548 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1853.5024 If I had money. 1854.1142 1549 DTA_int_03 1855.4442 That's true. 1855.7881 1550 DTA_int_03 1855.7881 (pause 0.13) 1855.9213 1551 DTA_int_03 1855.9213 [] 1856.6502 1552 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1856.2272 [Because you can] read all you need. 1857.7133 1553 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1858.1353 My education, uh, 1859.5789 1554 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1859.5789 (pause 0.69) 1860.2640 1555 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1860.2640 a formal education is alright if you have a purpose to use it. 1863.4506 1556 DTA_int_03 1863.8360 [Mm-hm.] 1864.1785 1557 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1863.9002 [Otherwise] you can more or less self-teach yourself anything you wanted. 1867.1642 1558 DTA_int_03 1867.6124 Yeah. 1867.7996 1559 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1867.8296 And you have the time to read, well you can read and do anything you want. 1871.1140 1560 DTA_int_03 1871.4841 Mm-hm. 1871.8135 1561 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1871.9215 So why spend time in a classroom when 1874.1691 1562 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1874.1691 (pause 0.28) 1874.4504 1563 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1874.4504 you can pick up the knowledge you want without it. 1875.9614 1564 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1875.9614 (pause 0.84) 1876.8020 1565 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1876.8020 Unless you have some directed purpose for it. 1878.4506 1566 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1878.4506 (pause 0.28) 1878.7350 1567 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1878.7350 [See.] 1878.9736 1568 DTA_int_03 1878.8145 [And that's why you're] a teacher? 1880.3846 1569 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1879.2569 [A degree.] 1879.8234 1570 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1879.8234 (pause 0.44) 1880.2639 1571 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1880.2639 Yeah, a degree for sake of degree is nice if your ego demands it. 1883.5789 1572 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1884.2671 But you can [read all the same] books and get the same knowledge without 1887.0774 1573 DTA_int_03 1884.5857 [] 1885.3712 1574 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1887.6830 going to through the sweat of a classroom. 1889.0039 1575 DTA_int_03 1889.3312 Here, here. 1889.8633 1576 DTA_int_03 1889.8633 (pause 0.44) 1890.3068 1577 DTA_int_03 1890.3068 And 1890.5756 1578 DTA_int_03 1890.5756 (pause 0.49) 1891.0680 1579 DTA_int_03 1891.0680 you can go through the sweat of a classroom and not read. 1893.3651 1580 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1893.4598 Oh, [yes.] 1894.6063 1581 DTA_int_03 1893.8417 [] Which is a [trouble] with higher [education.] 1896.7992 1582 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1894.9855 [] 1895.2816 1583 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1895.2816 (pause 0.38) 1895.6615 1584 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1895.6615 [] 1895.8480 1585 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1895.8480 (pause 0.60) 1896.4506 1586 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1896.4506 [Yes,] yes. 1898.3464 1587 DTA_int_03 1899.0193 How does your family celebrate the holidays? 1901.0278 1588 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1902.2885 Always together. We- 1903.4014 1589 DTA_int_03 1903.8650 [Mm-hm.] 1904.1800 1590 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1903.8693 [I have never] been in a family 1905.1355 1591 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1905.2915 that was separated during the holiday. When we do, that person's anathema. 1908.6524 1592 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1908.6524 (pause 0.73) 1909.3800 1593 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1909.3800 1909.7653 1594 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1909.7653 (pause 0.28) 1910.0467 1595 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1910.0467 [When] one- when one pulls off for the holiday, we look at them as cancer, you know, wondering what's wrong with you. 1915.1446 1596 DTA_int_03 1910.0742 [Yeah.] 1910.2394 1597 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1916.3740 But we usually spend our holidays together. 1918.2760 1598 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1918.2760 (pause 0.52) 1918.7990 1599 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1918.7990 Generally, I- 1919.6615 1600 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1919.6615 (pause 0.39) 1920.0468 1601 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1920.0468 we've- well, we have developed a ba- uh, a ban on traveling 1922.7808 1602 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1922.7808 (pause 0.29) 1923.0713 1603 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1923.0713 on the expressways and on highways, 1925.0253 1604 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1925.0253 (pause 0.68) 1925.7043 1605 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1925.7043 [so we-] 1926.0683 1606 DTA_int_03 1925.8542 [/?/] /bright/. [] 1926.9020 1607 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1926.4812 [yeah.] 1926.6616 1608 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1926.9552 So we usually spend our holidays at home. 1928.7318 1609 DTA_int_03 1928.9643 Mm-hm. 1929.1661 1610 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1929.4047 And we plan 1930.1085 1611 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1930.1085 (pause 0.24) 1930.3463 1612 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1930.3463 other days, other than, uh, 1931.7135 1613 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1931.7135 (pause 0.19) 1931.9061 1614 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1931.9061 uh, holidays 1932.8268 1615 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1932.8268 (pause 0.46) 1933.2912 1616 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1933.2912 for traveling. 1933.8558 1617 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1933.8558 (pause 0.50) 1934.3526 1618 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1934.3526 Last weekend we- 1935.4192 1619 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1935.4192 (pause 0.70) 1936.1200 1620 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1936.1200 uh, last two weekends we went up to Metropolitan Park. 1938.4720 1621 DTA_int_03 1938.7625 Mm-hm. 1939.0806 1622 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1939.4778 And had a little- just a little, oh, 1941.2548 1623 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1941.2548 (pause 0.32) 1941.5760 1624 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1941.5760 we don't even picnic. We usually 1943.2241 1625 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1943.2241 (pause 0.39) 1943.6156 1626 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1943.6156 buy, um, 1944.5882 1627 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1944.5882 (pause 0.72) 1945.3096 1628 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1945.3096 uh, a lunch 1946.3740 1629 DTA_int_03 1946.5728 Mm-hm. 1946.8978 1630 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1946.9734 and about the only thing we do is throw it in the hamper and get a 1949.6186 1631 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1949.6186 (pause 0.22) 1949.8414 1632 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1949.8414 /make a lot/- 1950.4821 1633 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1950.4821 (pause 0.33) 1950.8115 1634 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1950.8115 a thermos jug full of, uh, Kool-Aid. 1952.7196 1635 DTA_int_03 1952.8817 Mm-hm. 1953.1211 1636 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1953.6035 And, uh, 1954.3857 1637 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1954.3857 (pause 0.93) 1955.3158 1638 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1955.3158 then we all go together. That keeps from putting too much burden on the 1957.8020 1639 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1957.8020 (pause 0.40) 1958.2027 1640 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1958.2027 wife. 1958.7226 1641 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1958.7226 (pause 0.78) 1959.5056 1642 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1959.5056 And we just go out there and let everyone break out for themselves. Usually the wife and I, and the mother-in-law stay together as an adult group. My oldest- our oldest daughter 1966.2974 1643 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1966.2974 (pause 0.61) 1966.9060 1644 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1966.9060 and the kids- 1967.6331 1645 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1967.6331 (pause 0.64) 1968.2714 1646 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1968.2714 well he likes with his sail boats, 1969.8540 1647 DTA_int_03 1970.1323 Mm-hm. 1970.3587 1648 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1970.5055 and the fish. 1971.3771 1649 DTA_int_03 1971.5943 Mm-hm. 1971.8759 1650 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1972.1628 So leave them to their own devices and we just relax. 1974.5821 1651 DTA_int_03 1975.4289 Uh, 1975.7510 1652 DTA_int_03 1975.7510 (pause 0.49) 1976.2363 1653 DTA_int_03 1976.2363 how- how did you normally celebrate Christmas? Did you have any s- 1979.0406 1654 DTA_int_03 1979.0406 (pause 0.52) 1979.5605 1655 DTA_int_03 1979.5605 any special 1980.2762 1656 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1980.3527 Oh, [yes.] 1980.9827 1657 DTA_int_03 1980.7988 [thing] you do to [celebrated?] 1981.8150 1658 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1981.4962 [Mm-hm.] Mm, 1982.4535 1659 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1983.2579 we have a tradition in our family that's very, very, very 1986.2364 1660 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1986.2364 (pause 0.47) 1986.7075 1661 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1986.7075 definite. 1987.1077 1662 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1987.1077 (pause 0.61) 1987.7225 1663 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1987.7225 Midnight Mass. 1988.5942 1664 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1988.5942 (pause 1.27) 1989.8665 1665 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1989.8665 Always. 1990.4099 1666 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1990.4099 (pause 0.43) 1990.8387 1667 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1990.8387 This is a 1991.2271 1668 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1991.2271 (pause 0.33) 1991.5605 1669 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1991.5605 thing we live for from year to year. 1993.0592 1670 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1993.0592 (pause 0.82) 1993.8815 1671 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1993.8815 And, uh, 1994.7716 1672 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1994.7716 (pause 0.32) 1995.0896 1673 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1995.0896 the Christmas atmosphere and the Christmas music. 1996.9549 1674 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1996.9549 (pause 0.28) 1997.2333 1675 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 1997.2333 I- In our family, we never decorate the tree 1999.7653 1676 DTA_int_03 1999.7892 Mm-hm. 2000.2202 1677 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2000.1874 until Christmas Eve. 2001.1447 1678 DTA_int_03 2001.6616 After the service? 2002.6869 1679 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2002.7928 No, before. We decorate it before, but we don't light it until after. 2005.7775 1680 DTA_int_03 2005.9488 Mm-hm. 2006.1874 1681 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2006.5146 We decorate the tree and get it all ready, then we go to Mass. 2009.0895 1682 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2009.0895 (pause 0.77) 2009.8572 1683 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2009.8572 We come back, 2010.6859 1684 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2010.6859 (pause 0.54) 2011.2209 1685 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2011.2209 and put the gifts under the tree 2012.4341 1686 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2012.4341 (pause 0.59) 2013.0285 1687 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2013.0285 after Mass. 2013.8298 1688 DTA_int_03 2013.8447 Mm-hm. 2014.1161 1689 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2014.4013 And, uh, this is 2015.4932 1690 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2015.4932 (pause 0.22) 2015.7165 1691 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2015.7165 /re/- definitely apart of our pattern, our habits here. 2018.4680 1692 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2018.4680 (pause 0.78) 2019.2456 1693 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2019.2456 And, um, 2020.1204 1694 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2020.1204 (pause 1.51) 2021.6307 1695 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2021.6307 usually the wife and I have something to drink. 2023.8944 1696 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2023.8944 (pause 0.48) 2024.3739 1697 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2024.3739 Uh, 2025.1569 1698 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2025.1569 (pause 0.18) 2025.3374 1699 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2025.3374 usually we'll have an eggnog or something like that, or 2027.5331 1700 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2027.5331 (pause 0.92) 2028.4505 1701 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2028.4505 brandy or rum. 2029.4227 1702 DTA_int_03 2029.7928 Mm-hm. 2030.1280 1703 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2030.1721 And, uh, 2030.9612 1704 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2030.9612 (pause 1.02) 2031.9797 1705 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2031.9797 we have a Christmas breakfast. We have pancakes for breakfast. 2035.1628 1706 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2035.1628 (pause 0.56) 2035.7255 1707 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2035.7255 This comes in after the Mass and after the tree has been decorated, we have this pancake breakfast. 2040.9154 1708 DTA_int_03 2041.1475 Mm-hm. 2041.3826 1709 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2041.8234 And, uh, [eggnog.] 2043.0427 1710 DTA_int_03 2042.5330 [This is in the] middle of the night? 2043.7747 1711 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2043.8634 Middle the night. 2044.4091 1712 DTA_int_03 2045.1231 Uh, do you eat before the Mass? 2046.2701 1713 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2047.0011 Well, we can now. Before we didn't. 2048.9385 1714 DTA_int_03 2049.2425 Mm-hm. 2049.4628 1715 DTA_int_03 2049.4628 (pause 1.67) 2051.1292 1716 DTA_int_03 2051.1292 Um, 2051.5054 1717 DTA_int_03 2051.5054 (pause 2.01) 2053.5114 1718 DTA_int_03 2053.5114 but did you- 2054.1231 1719 DTA_int_03 2054.1231 (pause 0.19) 2054.3128 1720 DTA_int_03 2054.3128 when did you open the presents? 2055.4883 1721 DTA_int_03 2055.4883 (pause 0.27) 2055.7603 1722 DTA_int_03 2055.7603 In the morning? 2056.2462 1723 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2056.5787 In the morning. Well that depends on the age of the kids. 2059.5084 1724 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2059.5084 (pause 0.63) 2060.1354 1725 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2060.1354 Uh, 2060.8725 1726 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2060.8725 (pause 0.51) 2061.3863 1727 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2061.3863 usually now they're open about seven or eight o'clock in the morning. 2063.9336 1728 DTA_int_03 2064.4179 It used to be crack of dawn? 2065.7405 1729 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2065.7225 Yeah. 2066.0895 1730 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2066.4932 [Yeah.] 2066.7922 1731 DTA_int_03 2066.6186 [] 2067.6034 1732 DTA_int_03 2068.6582 Uh, do you say anything special 2069.9397 1733 DTA_int_03 2069.9397 (pause 1.60) 2071.5359 1734 DTA_int_03 2071.5359 to each other? 2072.0144 1735 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2072.3494 Uh, 2072.7960 1736 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2072.7960 (pause 0.16) 2072.9550 1737 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2072.9550 no more than Merry [Christmas.] 2074.6705 1738 DTA_int_03 2074.6521 [Mm-hm.] 2074.9293 1739 DTA_int_03 2076.2823 Um, 2076.6891 1740 DTA_int_03 2076.6891 (pause 0.29) 2076.9793 1741 DTA_int_03 2076.9793 do you cook anything special? Do you get your wife to? 2079.1385 1742 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2079.3893 No. We used to have a- 2081.2363 1743 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2081.2363 (pause 0.40) 2081.6400 1744 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2081.6400 uh, we used to have ham [traditionally] for 2084.3953 1745 DTA_int_03 2083.6294 [Mm-hm.] 2083.9849 1746 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2084.6094 Christmas, but 2085.1752 1747 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2085.1752 (pause 0.64) 2085.8114 1748 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2085.8114 as we've gotten older we try to get away from the heavier cooking obligations. 2089.5389 1749 DTA_int_03 2089.5940 Yeah. 2089.8741 1750 DTA_int_03 2089.8741 (pause 0.97) 2090.8449 1751 DTA_int_03 2090.8449 What 2091.0437 1752 DTA_int_03 2091.0437 (pause 0.30) 2091.3435 1753 DTA_int_03 2091.3435 did you do, 2092.0575 1754 DTA_int_03 2092.0575 (pause 0.46) 2092.5145 1755 DTA_int_03 2092.5145 uh, 2092.8424 1756 DTA_int_03 2092.8424 (pause 0.41) 2093.2546 1757 DTA_int_03 2093.2546 on October thirty first? 2094.5477 1758 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2094.8756 Who knows. 2095.4992 1759 DTA_int_03 2096.0956 2096.4947 1760 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2096.9153 Well I can tell you one thing, I 2098.0255 1761 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2098.0255 (pause 0.19) 2098.2147 1762 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2098.2147 very possibly, uh, gave my mother-in-law a, uh, 2101.5512 1763 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2101.5512 (pause 0.81) 2102.3586 1764 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2102.3586 birthday present, [cause-] 2103.4490 1765 DTA_int_03 2103.3006 [That's her] birthday. 2104.1044 1766 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2104.1994 [uh.] 2104.7233 1767 DTA_int_03 2104.3637 [Did you go] out? 2105.0096 1768 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2105.5421 [Mm-] 2106.0865 1769 DTA_int_03 2105.6889 [Around the neighborhood in costume?] 2106.9849 1770 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2106.4383 [no.] 2106.9490 1771 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2107.3126 No. 2107.7255 1772 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2107.7255 (pause 0.68) 2108.4075 1773 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2108.4075 You mean [Halloween?] 2109.4260 1774 DTA_int_03 2109.2698 [Yeah.] 2109.4599 1775 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2110.0255 The kids do, we don't. We stay here and 2111.7844 1776 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2111.7844 (pause 0.15) 2111.9367 1777 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2111.9367 pass it out the door. 2112.8940 1778 DTA_int_03 2112.9150 [] 2113.7132 1779 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2113.3646 [We always] have something for the kids. 2114.7929 1780 DTA_int_03 2115.0345 Did you when you were a kid? 2115.9215 1781 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2117.9642 Oh, I think possibly once or twice I put on a face and went 2121.4230 1782 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2121.4230 (pause 1.31) 2122.7347 1783 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2122.7347 begging trick- uh, trick or treat thing. It was just beginning. 2125.9396 1784 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2125.9396 (pause 0.18) 2126.1231 1785 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2126.1231 The trick or treat was just beginning as a- 2128.1026 1786 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2128.1026 (pause 0.29) 2128.3952 1787 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2128.3952 possibly when I was about fifteen or sixteen years old. 2130.1263 1788 DTA_int_03 2130.3037 Oh, really? 2130.5881 1789 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2130.8695 Now before then, we'd try to be as devilish as possible. 2133.5545 1790 DTA_int_03 2133.9919 Yeah. 2134.2851 1791 DTA_int_03 2134.2851 (pause 0.16) 2134.4418 1792 DTA_int_03 2134.4418 Was there any special thing- well, 2135.9244 1793 DTA_int_03 2135.9244 (pause 0.23) 2136.1537 1794 DTA_int_03 2136.1537 being in police work you might be more sensitive to this. 2138.8816 1795 DTA_int_03 2138.8816 (pause 0.44) 2139.3190 1796 DTA_int_03 2139.3190 Um, 2139.6493 1797 DTA_int_03 2139.6493 (pause 0.64) 2140.2851 1798 DTA_int_03 2140.2851 about the night before Halloween. 2141.8669 1799 DTA_int_03 2141.8669 (pause 0.99) 2142.8554 1800 DTA_int_03 2142.8554 Do you have a special name for that? 2144.0551 1801 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2144.3097 Well and that's All Soul- All Hallow Night. 2146.7041 1802 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2146.7041 (pause 0.46) 2147.1598 1803 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2147.1598 And, uh, 2148.4230 1804 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2148.4230 (pause 0.24) 2148.6676 1805 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2148.6676 religiously speaking it did have a significance 2151.0804 1806 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2151.0804 (pause 0.21) 2151.2945 1807 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2151.2945 to me because [of my religion.] 2153.0803 1808 DTA_int_03 2152.4441 [You mean,] 2152.6613 1809 DTA_int_03 2152.6613 (pause 0.21) 2152.8760 1810 DTA_int_03 2152.8760 [the thirty] first, [proper?] 2154.0651 1811 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2153.6369 [y- i-] 2154.0468 1812 DTA_int_03 2154.3098 [Would be the religious] /affiliation/. 2155.7885 1813 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2154.4535 [uh- well,] 2155.0558 1814 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2155.8876 Yeah, well the three days did. 2157.3587 1815 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2157.3587 (pause 0.27) 2157.6279 1816 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2157.6279 The thirty first- the thirtieth, the thirty first, and the first of November. 2160.4872 1817 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2160.4872 (pause 0.64) 2161.1264 1818 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2161.1264 All had a strong religious significance to me and our family here. 2164.4166 1819 DTA_int_03 2164.5236 Do you go to church on All Hallow? 2166.0245 1820 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2166.7533 No, you don't have to. It is not a day of obligation, although there is a liturgy for that day. 2172.5452 1821 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2172.5452 (pause 0.71) 2173.2575 1822 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2173.2575 And, uh, 2174.0558 1823 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2174.0558 (pause 0.75) 2174.8082 1824 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2174.8082 usually we were attending Mass in preparation for an All Soul's Day, we would- 2179.4104 1825 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2179.4104 (pause 0.49) 2179.8998 1826 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2179.8998 Halloween is always 2181.1140 1827 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2181.1140 (pause 0.17) 2181.2884 1828 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2181.2884 been a, um, 2182.1596 1829 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2182.1596 (pause 0.88) 2183.0405 1830 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2183.0405 as well as a 2183.7011 1831 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2183.7011 (pause 0.39) 2184.0896 1832 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2184.0896 culture tr- uh, thing for the kids, 2186.1475 1833 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2186.1475 (pause 0.71) 2186.8571 1834 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2186.8571 it's had its religious significance too. We've tried to instill them that 2190.5319 1835 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2190.5319 (pause 0.20) 2190.7319 1836 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2190.7319 Halloween isn't exactly what 2192.1017 1837 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2192.1017 (pause 0.67) 2192.7715 1838 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2192.7715 we have it here in our 2193.8573 1839 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2193.8573 (pause 0.53) 2194.3890 1840 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2194.3890 belief- uh, practices here. It actually has a 2196.5147 1841 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2196.5147 (pause 0.33) 2196.8481 1842 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2196.8481 deeper meaning, and we try to 2198.1414 1843 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2198.1414 (pause 0.80) 2198.9366 1844 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2198.9366 have our children understand that. 2200.2892 1845 DTA_int_03 2200.7836 Do they do anything on the thirtieth? 2202.4104 1846 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2204.1170 No. 2204.3830 1847 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2204.3830 (pause 1.31) 2205.6921 1848 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2205.6921 Now, which is Halloween? The thirty or the thirty first? 2207.5696 1849 DTA_int_03 2207.5818 Thirty [first is. /inaudible/]. 2209.5869 1850 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2207.8632 [Well thirty first is Halloween. I w- I was trying to find out] what you were getting at. 2210.7959 1851 DTA_int_03 2210.8326 Yeah. 2211.0559 1852 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2211.4168 [Uh,] 2211.8201 1853 DTA_int_03 2211.6737 [The] thirtieth [we used to] go out and do all kinds [/inaudible/.] 2214.2277 1854 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2212.1474 [the thirtieth-] 2212.5939 1855 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2212.5939 (pause 1.43) 2214.0223 1856 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2214.0223 [Yeah. /Maybe, uh/,] 2215.0098 1857 DTA_int_03 2214.9001 [] 2215.3615 1858 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2215.1963 [here] they had the night before as a soaping night. 2218.3095 1859 DTA_int_03 2218.6306 Mm-hm. 2218.8744 1860 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2218.8879 Then it was a garbage can night. 2220.2272 1861 DTA_int_03 2220.4015 Mm-hm. 2220.7077 1862 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2221.5817 And, uh, then the trick and treat 2223.6217 1863 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2223.6217 (pause 0.20) 2223.8205 1864 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2223.8205 night. 2224.1111 1865 DTA_int_03 2225.7898 [Got it.] 2226.0119 1866 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2225.9060 [So] we actually- we had about three days here that they would run, because 2229.4810 1867 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2230.1474 we would- we know to move our car off of the street 2232.4260 1868 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2232.4260 (pause 0.16) 2232.5820 1869 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2232.5820 about two days before Halloween. 2234.0925 1870 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2234.0925 (pause 0.80) 2234.8938 1871 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2234.8938 And the night before Halloween, we'd get our garbage cans in. 2237.4197 1872 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2237.4197 (pause 0.36) 2237.7776 1873 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2237.7776 Course, we aren't bothered with that because the dog takes care of that for us. 2240.5574 1874 DTA_int_03 2240.7195 Yes. 2242.4349 1875 DTA_int_03 2242.4349 (pause 0.68) 2243.1108 1876 DTA_int_03 2243.1108 Um, 2243.5128 1877 DTA_int_03 2243.5128 (pause 2.44) 2245.9512 1878 DTA_int_03 2245.9512 Let's see. Um. 2247.0987 1879 DTA_int_03 2247.0987 (pause 0.84) 2247.9363 1880 DTA_int_03 2247.9363 Did you 2248.2728 1881 DTA_int_03 2248.2728 (pause 0.53) 2248.8019 1882 DTA_int_03 2248.8019 get into fights? 2249.5512 1883 DTA_int_03 2249.5512 (pause 0.32) 2249.8755 1884 DTA_int_03 2249.8755 When you were a kid? 2250.3923 1885 DTA_int_03 2250.3923 (pause 0.79) 2251.1841 1886 DTA_int_03 2251.1841 Tell me about one. 2251.7132 1887 DTA_int_03 2251.7132 (pause 1.20) 2252.9122 1888 DTA_int_03 2252.9122 What kinds of things did fights start about? 2254.9671 1889 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2255.8663 Well 2256.2523 1890 DTA_int_03 2256.3220 The other guys. 2256.9287 1891 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2256.9918 eh, 2257.3125 1892 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2257.3125 (pause 0.68) 2257.9915 1893 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2257.9915 I don't know what the other guys fought about. 2259.6523 1894 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2259.6523 (pause 0.27) 2259.9184 1895 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2259.9184 I only had one as a youngster. 2261.8754 1896 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2261.8754 (pause 0.46) 2262.3312 1897 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2262.3312 One, [uh-] 2262.7777 1898 DTA_int_03 2262.5942 [Tell me] about it. 2263.0560 1899 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2263.3156 well 2263.9426 1900 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2263.9426 (pause 0.52) 2264.4607 1901 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2264.4607 I was being a loner. 2265.6737 1902 DTA_int_03 2265.9516 Mm-hm. 2266.2390 1903 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2266.9487 And, uh, always 2268.0131 1904 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2268.0131 (pause 2.01) 2270.0252 1905 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2270.0252 be more or less a book worm, and I'd actually be called, sissy. 2273.2087 1906 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2273.2087 (pause 1.38) 2274.5850 1907 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2274.5850 And, uh, that would- 2275.7765 1908 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2275.7765 (pause 0.44) 2276.2117 1909 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2276.2117 eventually got a fight out of me. 2277.5514 1910 DTA_int_03 2278.0434 Mm-hm. 2278.3714 1911 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2279.8571 And, uh, 2280.6829 1912 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2280.6829 (pause 1.05) 2281.7346 1913 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2281.7346 but I've always been the type of a person that, uh, 2283.8389 1914 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2283.8389 (pause 0.14) 2283.9796 1915 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2283.9796 would try to avoid a fight. But being embarrassed /so the cause maybe aware of the-/ 2287.9028 1916 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2287.9028 (pause 1.51) 2289.4107 1917 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2289.4107 And, uh, 2290.0071 1918 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2290.0071 (pause 0.37) 2290.3798 1919 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2290.3798 cornered 2290.8312 1920 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2290.8312 (pause 1.15) 2291.9794 1921 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2291.9794 I'd fight. 2292.4657 1922 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2292.4657 (pause 0.52) 2292.9826 1923 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2292.9826 You'd have to corner me. 2293.8569 1924 DTA_int_03 2294.4564 What are the rules for a fair fight? 2295.9184 1925 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2297.0466 Well in my day 2297.6858 1926 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2297.6858 (pause 0.29) 2297.9794 1927 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2297.9794 strictly your fist. Now, anything you can do is [a- is fair.] 2301.2455 1928 DTA_int_03 2300.4931 [] 2301.1354 1929 DTA_int_03 2301.7502 Yeah, but it was 2302.6644 1930 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2302.6979 [And- yeah]. 2303.3555 1931 DTA_int_03 2302.8478 [you couldn't] kick, bite, pull, [or anything /inaudible/.] 2305.1565 1932 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2304.1813 [No, I- no. We d-] no, we didn't do anything like that. 2306.3188 1933 DTA_int_03 2306.7500 If someone were 2307.4963 1934 DTA_int_03 2307.4963 (pause 0.13) 2307.6217 1935 DTA_int_03 2307.6217 getting 2308.0097 1936 DTA_int_03 2308.0097 (pause 0.17) 2308.1749 1937 DTA_int_03 2308.1749 beaten up, 2308.6123 1938 DTA_int_03 2308.6123 (pause 0.56) 2309.1689 1939 DTA_int_03 2309.1689 was there anything you could say to call off the fight? 2310.9704 1940 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2311.6031 Oh, 2312.0099 1941 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2312.0099 (pause 0.54) 2312.5512 1942 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2312.5512 in those days, it might even- well, if two guys are fighting long as they were fighting fair, we still say let them fight. We didn't really- 2318.3647 1943 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2318.3647 (pause 0.16) 2318.5244 1944 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2318.5244 did not really permit anyone else to interfere. 2320.3156 1945 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2320.3156 (pause 0.72) 2321.0404 1946 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2321.0404 But if it is an unfair fight, we'd break it up. 2322.9227 1947 DTA_int_03 2323.4318 Yeah. But, say in a fair fight. If one person wanted to- 2326.3033 1948 DTA_int_03 2326.3033 (pause 0.17) 2326.4716 1949 DTA_int_03 2326.4716 to quit. 2326.8845 1950 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2327.0527 I give up. 2327.6399 1951 DTA_int_03 2327.8540 I give up. 2328.1446 1952 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2328.3403 Mm. 2328.6309 1953 DTA_int_03 2329.6734 Uh, 2330.0466 1954 DTA_int_03 2330.0466 (pause 0.85) 2330.8938 1955 DTA_int_03 2330.8938 have you ever been in the hospital? 2332.1534 1956 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2333.0404 Yes, uh-huh. 2333.9029 1957 DTA_int_03 2336.2637 Did you 2336.7252 1958 DTA_int_03 2336.7252 (pause 0.63) 2337.3525 1959 DTA_int_03 2337.3525 ever- were you ever in an automobile accident? 2339.3857 1960 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2340.2210 No. Excuse me for interrupting, but here's one of my brand new employees I jus- think I just hired this man. 2345.3696 1961 DTA_int_03 2345.7317 [Uh-huh.] 2346.0030 1962 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2345.8877 [Yesterday.] Yes, I- no- yeah. 2348.0661 1963 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2348.8779 [In full uniform.] 2349.7471 1964 DTA_int_03 2348.8999 [/inaudible/] 2349.4891 1965 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2349.8756 No, no. Uh-uh. 2350.5908 1966 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2350.5908 (pause 0.79) 2351.3830 1967 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2351.3830 Yeah, he just- 2351.8632 1968 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2351.8632 (pause 0.22) 2352.0803 1969 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2352.0803 just proud of his uniform. [] 2354.8265 1970 DTA_int_03 2353.6214 [] 2354.2513 1971 DTA_int_03 2354.8724 [Uh-huh.] 2355.4630 1972 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2355.2180 [] 2355.7775 1973 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2355.8832 You see, [he's actually- he- see that walk out, he's quite proud of his uniform.] Oh, brother. 2359.5725 1974 DTA_int_03 2356.1565 [Yeah. Yeah, I can see that walk. ] 2358.8573 1975 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2359.7407 [Brother.] 2360.0007 1976 DTA_int_03 2360.0007 I am [/too/. ] 2361.3621 1977 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2360.7255 [] 2363.1475 1978 DTA_int_03 2362.4752 [Looks pretty good.] 2363.2705 1979 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2363.8815 2364.2975 1980 DTA_int_03 2364.9398 Uh, 2365.2881 1981 DTA_int_03 2365.2881 (pause 0.34) 2365.6306 1982 DTA_int_03 2365.6306 how much training do these guys 2366.8387 1983 DTA_int_03 2366.8387 (pause 0.32) 2367.1537 1984 DTA_int_03 2367.1537 get? 2367.3128 1985 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2367.8817 Well 2368.2605 1986 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2368.2605 (pause 0.20) 2368.4629 1987 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2368.4629 in /RD-WORK-3/ they're t- continuously on a training. 2370.7440 1988 DTA_int_03 2370.7987 Yeah. 2371.0236 1989 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2371.5266 That's a j- that's one of my jobs is to train [these men.] Yeah. 2374.3125 1990 DTA_int_03 2373.7108 [Uh-huh.] 2374.0519 1991 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2375.5053 We have a r- uh, continuous training program we have a regular procedure I have to follow and I have to evaluate them. 2380.7988 1992 DTA_int_03 2380.9670 Mm-hm. 2381.3226 1993 DTA_int_03 2381.3226 (pause 1.55) 2382.8755 1994 DTA_int_03 2382.8755 Were you ever in any situation where you thought you might die or be killed? 2386.0204 1995 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2387.2759 Mm, 2389.0433 1996 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2389.0433 (pause 0.73) 2389.7713 1997 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2389.7713 well in police work I had situations where 2392.4287 1998 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2392.4287 (pause 0.77) 2393.1964 1999 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2393.1964 I knew that the 2394.1843 2000 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2394.1843 (pause 0.28) 2394.4657 2001 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2394.4657 odds were there. 2395.5572 2002 DTA_int_03 2395.6979 Yeah. 2396.6557 2003 DTA_int_03 2396.6557 (pause 0.46) 2397.1109 2004 DTA_int_03 2397.1109 Yeah, [but did you-] did you ever think, you know, this is it I'm not gonna get out of this /alive/? 2401.2878 2005 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2397.3953 [Well, but.] 2397.9485 2006 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2401.5449 No. 2401.8110 2007 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2401.8110 (pause 1.38) 2403.1874 2008 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2403.1874 Never thought of that. 2403.8996 2009 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2403.8996 (pause 0.43) 2404.3278 2010 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2404.3278 I never faced death that way. I've taken a lot of risks, but never 2406.9913 2011 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2406.9913 (pause 0.10) 2407.0953 2012 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2407.0953 thought of at the time that there was- 2408.6705 2013 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2408.6705 (pause 0.18) 2408.8479 2014 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2408.8479 i- it was a risk. 2409.8710 2015 DTA_int_03 2410.0189 Mm-hm. 2410.3236 2016 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2411.3371 Only afterwards. 2412.2135 2017 DTA_int_03 2412.5605 Some people feel, 2413.3584 2018 DTA_int_03 2413.3584 (pause 0.28) 2413.6336 2019 DTA_int_03 2413.6336 well whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen. 2415.6890 2020 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2416.5969 Well I feel that if you have a situation to meet, you must meet that situation regardless of the cost of it. 2420.8601 2021 DTA_int_03 2421.2057 Mm-hm. 2421.7109 2022 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2421.9092 In other words, if 2422.5939 2023 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2422.5939 (pause 0.15) 2422.7477 2024 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2422.7477 something is a hazardous or a risk, in other words, if that building over there was on fire and somebody was in there, I'd probably die trying to get them out. 2427.6813 2025 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2427.6813 (pause 0.82) 2428.5010 2026 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2428.5010 And I wouldn't consider that, uh, I might die in doing it. 2430.9932 2027 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2430.9932 (pause 0.28) 2431.2716 2028 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2431.2716 It'd be- the object would be to get them out if possible. 2433.0333 2029 DTA_int_03 2433.2164 Yeah. 2433.4239 2030 DTA_int_03 2433.4239 (pause 1.55) 2434.9772 2031 DTA_int_03 2434.9772 But, um, 2435.4517 2032 DTA_int_03 2435.4517 (pause 1.36) 2436.8128 2033 DTA_int_03 2436.8128 not a fatalist. 2437.7840 2034 DTA_int_03 2437.7840 (pause 0.81) 2438.5959 2035 DTA_int_03 2438.5959 Mm-mm. 2438.9616 2036 DTA_se3_ag4_m_01 2439.4173 Can't be. 2439.8904 2037 DTA_int_03 2440.2492 Mm-hm. 2440.5525