Line Spkr StTime Content EnTime 1 LES_int_01 0.5873 Okay, so we're recording and I'm /RD-NAME-4/. And I'm talking to /RD-NAME-4/ 4.7414 2 LES_int_01 4.7414 (pause 0.30) 5.0398 3 LES_int_01 5.0398 It's January fifteenth, two thousand nine. 7.5249 4 LES_int_01 7.5249 (pause 0.43) 7.9570 5 LES_int_01 7.9570 Um, so /RD-NAME-2/ I think I told you, I'm 10.3402 6 LES_int_01 10.3402 (pause 0.34) 10.6845 7 LES_int_01 10.6845 interested in your life 11.6612 8 LES_int_01 11.6612 (pause 0.26) 11.9203 9 LES_int_01 11.9203 s- history. 12.7270 10 LES_int_01 12.7270 (pause 0.25) 12.9738 11 LES_int_01 12.9738 So I normally start at the beginning, would you mind telling me when and where you were born? 17.5151 12 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 17.5771 Okay. Um, I was born November 19.9112 13 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 19.9112 (pause 0.47) 20.3821 14 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 20.3821 twenty-fourth, nineteen fifty-seven. 22.8063 15 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 22.8063 (pause 0.33) 23.1366 16 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 23.1366 So I'm fifty-one years old. 24.5072 17 LES_int_01 24.9039 [But you don't look it,] by the way. 26.2188 18 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 25.0018 [And-] 25.6143 19 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 26.3896 thank you, I wanted that [to go on the tape. ] 29.7993 20 LES_int_01 27.5427 [ Seriously, though.] 28.8667 21 LES_int_01 28.8667 (pause 0.73) 29.5988 22 LES_int_01 29.5988 [Seriously.] 30.4841 23 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 30.1584 [Thank you.] 30.7406 24 LES_int_01 30.6380 [ You're welcome.] 31.5565 25 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 31.2749 [Um,] I was born in Brooklyn. 32.8762 26 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 33.0941 [So I tell] people that I'm a native [Manhattanite.] 36.1255 27 LES_int_01 33.1827 [Oh, you were?] 33.9427 28 LES_int_01 33.9427 (pause 2.09) 36.0364 29 LES_int_01 36.0364 [Uh-oh.] 36.5399 30 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 36.6192 Um, but I ws born in [Brooklyn. I have to confess- the first secret coming out. So there are] few people who know that. 42.6890 31 LES_int_01 38.2360 [Okay, the- the first secret coming out. ] 41.6679 32 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 43.0877 But, um, my family never lived- 45.2390 33 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 45.2390 (pause 0.15) 45.3876 34 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 45.3876 well, I never lived in Brooklyn other that the time I spent at the hospital, [so at-] whatever time that, you know, however they kept you- 51.9003 35 LES_int_01 48.8701 [Oh, okay.] 49.7840 36 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 52.3806 long they kept you at that- 53.3738 37 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 53.3738 (pause 0.22) 53.5897 38 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 53.5897 at that time, um, 55.1945 39 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 55.1945 (pause 0.58) 55.7768 40 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 55.7768 in the hospital, that was my length of my residency in [Brooklyn.] 59.4576 41 LES_int_01 58.8188 [You just happened] to be born 60.2503 42 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 60.2618 Yes, in [Brooklyn.] 61.2802 43 LES_int_01 61.2202 [there.] 61.8399 44 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 61.4272 [Well what] happened was my parents 63.1236 45 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 63.3499 lived in Brooklyn. They lived in downtown Brooklyn, I don't remember the street, 67.1086 46 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 67.1086 (pause 0.52) 67.6304 47 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 67.6304 um, 68.4364 48 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 68.4364 (pause 0.42) 68.8603 49 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 68.8603 but they- 70.5323 50 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 70.5323 (pause 0.94) 71.4751 51 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 71.4751 I already had a sister, um, /RD-NAME-5/. 74.8793 52 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 74.8793 (pause 0.13) 75.0052 53 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 75.0052 [/RD-NAME-5/.] 76.0637 54 LES_int_01 75.0192 [Okay.] 75.4249 55 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 76.1569 And we all called her /RD-NAME-2/. 77.8328 56 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 77.8328 (pause 0.54) 78.3697 57 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 78.3697 Um, who was two years old and they needed a, I guess, a bigger place. They never told me why they moved, but they needed a bigger place. 84.4092 58 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 84.4092 (pause 0.39) 84.7997 59 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 84.7997 So they moved to the projects. 86.5336 60 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 86.5336 (pause 0.25) 86.7807 61 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 86.7807 Um, 87.3960 62 LES_int_01 87.3960 [Mm-hm.] 87.8038 63 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 87.6991 [] 87.7876 64 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 87.9377 a- Jacob Riis Projects, [and- and while] my mother was in the hospital, [my father] moved. 92.4639 65 LES_int_01 89.3677 [Okay.] 89.8527 66 LES_int_01 89.8527 (pause 1.69) 91.5453 67 LES_int_01 91.5453 [Yeah.] 91.8181 68 LES_int_01 92.8183 Ah. 93.5889 69 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 93.5889 Now, one of the questions I now have is where was my sister in all of [this?] 97.2321 70 LES_int_01 96.8224 [ Right.] 97.9574 71 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 97.7037 [So] I- I guess staying with some random aunt or, you know, under- 101.7855 72 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 101.9650 uncle, or d- family member. 103.8148 73 LES_int_01 104.0573 [Okay.] 104.5376 74 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 104.2811 [Um,] just by way of background, my [parents] 107.3477 75 LES_int_01 107.2328 [Yeah.] 107.6667 76 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 107.7291 Um, 108.2806 77 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 108.2806 (pause 0.30) 108.5834 78 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 108.5834 my father is from Georgia, from Vidalia, where the onions come from. [And my mother] is from, 113.9321 79 LES_int_01 112.2954 [Oh.] 112.8596 80 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 114.2393 um, the northern part of Florida, from Monticello. Both very small [towns.] 119.6589 81 LES_int_01 119.5029 [Wow.] 119.9802 82 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 120.0892 And they moved 121.0715 83 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 121.0715 (pause 0.30) 121.3691 84 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 121.3691 north, I guess in the thirties, 123.1204 85 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 123.1204 (pause 0.47) 123.5910 86 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 123.5910 um, and the forties- thirties or the forties, I'm not sure when. 127.1407 87 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 127.1407 (pause 0.48) 127.6195 88 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 127.6195 Um, as part of the migration of [blacks to the north] looking for better [opportunities.] 132.5002 89 LES_int_01 129.8001 [Right.] 130.3363 90 LES_int_01 130.3363 (pause 2.02) 132.3553 91 LES_int_01 132.3553 [Right, right.] 133.1154 92 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 133.0311 [Um,] 133.7176 93 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 134.3842 so- and they met here. 135.6012 94 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 135.6012 (pause 0.25) 135.8472 95 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 135.8472 They met in New York [and], um, I think in church. 138.9639 96 LES_int_01 136.9097 [Interesting.] 137.4926 97 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 139.5680 [And, uh,] 140.9386 98 LES_int_01 140.0052 [Okay.] 140.5422 99 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 141.1843 not I think, I know in church. And 143.3426 100 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 143.3426 (pause 0.09) 143.4358 101 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 143.4358 got married and had a son, 145.5582 102 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 145.5582 (pause 0.44) 146.0009 103 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 146.0009 who died, 146.7575 104 LES_int_01 146.7875 [Aw.] 147.3620 105 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 147.2594 [um,] right after birth. And then my sister was born 151.0254 106 LES_int_01 151.0254 Yeah. 151.5020 107 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 151.5777 and then I came along, like two and a half years later, and they wanted to move, 155.2497 108 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 155.2497 (pause 0.55) 155.8033 109 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 155.8033 um, I guess to a larger space. 157.2496 110 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 157.2496 (pause 0.38) 157.6340 111 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 157.6340 Now, at that time when I was growing up the projects I guess were fairly new. I don't remember the entire history I think they were [built in the forties.] 164.5671 112 LES_int_01 163.2038 [I think they were. Yeah,] yeah. 165.0149 113 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 165.2310 Um, and 166.5447 114 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 166.5447 (pause 0.11) 166.6566 115 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 166.6566 they were considered when they, I think just based on they history 169.7808 116 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 169.7808 (pause 0.66) 170.4393 117 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 170.4393 they were not considered to be t- a- permanent housing. 173.6690 118 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 173.6690 (pause 0.58) 174.2467 119 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 174.2467 They were supposed to [be temporary] housing. 176.0225 120 LES_int_01 174.9546 [Huh.] 175.3015 121 LES_int_01 176.0225 [Oh, okay.] 177.0669 122 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 176.3628 [You know, you stay-] you- you moved into the projects 179.0580 123 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 179.1652 to save enough money to get your Archie Bunker, 182.4047 124 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 182.4047 (pause 0.45) 182.8577 125 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 182.8577 you know, house out in Queens. 184.2838 126 LES_int_01 184.2838 [Right. ] 185.7760 127 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 184.8453 [So,] 185.7243 128 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 186.0265 [when I-] 186.5534 129 LES_int_01 186.0265 [It was a stepping] stone. 187.0663 130 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 187.0663 It was a stepping stone. [So when I] moved- 188.7976 131 LES_int_01 188.0082 [Yeah.] 188.4160 132 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 188.9035 when we moved in, 190.3642 133 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 190.3642 (pause 0.47) 190.8386 134 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 190.8386 um, everybody lived in the projects. 193.0880 135 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 193.0880 (pause 0.40) 193.4846 136 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 193.4846 So 194.3478 137 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 194.3478 (pause 0.10) 194.4457 138 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 194.4457 our neighbors, you know, b- I'd sometimes look at then and now. 198.2238 139 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 198.2238 (pause 0.37) 198.5906 140 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 198.5906 Now, the projects have become 200.3774 141 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 200.3774 (pause 0.32) 200.7008 142 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 200.7008 a place of despair, 202.1441 143 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 202.1441 (pause 0.16) 202.3052 144 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 202.3052 and [scary,] 203.6304 145 LES_int_01 202.8610 [Mm.] 203.5651 146 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 203.9528 and very violent. 205.0259 147 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 205.0259 (pause 0.47) 205.4997 148 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 205.4997 Um, 206.0419 149 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 206.0419 (pause 0.51) 206.5519 150 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 206.5519 ins- in- I think that 207.8816 151 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 207.8816 (pause 0.29) 208.1754 152 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 208.1754 when I was there was kind of a transition period, because now it's become- uh- n- then 213.4876 153 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 213.4876 (pause 0.49) 213.9817 154 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 213.9817 everybody lived there, 214.9767 155 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 214.9767 (pause 0.11) 215.0886 156 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 215.0886 you know, there were Italians, there were Jews, there were Blacks, there were [Whites, there were Hispanics] 219.1978 157 LES_int_01 218.2826 [Oh really? It] was like, really [ethnically mixed?] 220.9079 158 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 219.9053 [it was-] 220.3716 159 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 220.3716 (pause 0.40) 220.7722 160 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 220.7722 [oh] my God. It was everybody, [you know so.] 223.6390 161 LES_int_01 222.5666 [/Interesting./] 223.3648 162 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 223.8162 Growing up on the Lower East Side, 225.5082 163 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 225.5082 (pause 0.34) 225.8511 164 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 225.8511 I grew up eating lox- 227.2211 165 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 227.2211 (pause 0.21) 227.4334 166 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 227.4334 lox and bagels and, you know. 229.4123 167 LES_int_01 229.4244 Yeah. 229.9327 168 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 230.1057 Going down to /RD-NAME-4/'s house to celebrate Hanukkah. 233.8675 169 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 233.8675 (pause 0.33) 234.2007 170 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 234.2007 Or going next door to bake 235.8149 171 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 235.8149 (pause 0.20) 236.0162 172 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 236.0162 those little Italian cookies with the sprinkles on them, 238.4825 173 LES_int_01 238.6830 [Okay.] 239.1851 174 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 238.8106 [with Mrs./RD-NAME-3/] 239.9746 175 LES_int_01 240.0206 [Uh-huh.] 240.3983 176 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 240.2444 [I mean,] everybody lived there, [so it was a very-] 243.1774 177 LES_int_01 241.7506 [Wow, and you all interacted.] 243.7969 178 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 243.8267 yeah. We had- everybody knew- we all had our suspicions and, 246.8371 179 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 246.8371 (pause 0.39) 247.2264 180 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 247.2264 you know, but slowly what would happen was as people moved out- the people you could, 251.2868 181 LES_int_01 251.4800 [Yeah.] 251.7366 182 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 251.6806 [did] transition out. 253.0182 183 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 253.3633 And then there was a group of people who stayed. We were part of the group that stayed. Which, at some point, I'll tell you how I got my phone number. 259.5870 184 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 259.5870 (pause 0.65) 260.2374 185 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 260.2374 [Right? My cell] phone [number.] 261.9171 186 LES_int_01 260.3821 [Yes.] 261.0638 187 LES_int_01 261.0638 (pause 0.42) 261.4881 188 LES_int_01 261.4881 [Your same phone number.] 262.9057 189 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 262.1827 [Um, my cell] phone number is the f- number that my parents got 266.0665 190 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 266.8178 when they move into that- 267.6978 191 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 267.6978 (pause 0.12) 267.8155 192 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 267.8155 to that apartment. So [it's the same] phone number. 270.5307 193 LES_int_01 269.0687 [That's incredible.] 269.9346 194 LES_int_01 269.9346 (pause 0.38) 270.3137 195 LES_int_01 270.3137 [Yeah,] you have to tell me that [/inaudible/.] 272.2628 196 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 271.3366 [So I grew up] 272.2581 197 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 272.7990 on the Lower East Side, I grew up with all these experience and- and it was very diverse. 277.4705 198 LES_int_01 277.5193 So this was the sixties, [when you were a child,] 280.4334 199 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 279.0681 [This was the sixties, yes.] 280.9146 200 LES_int_01 280.7895 [What] do you remember about it? What- what did- 282.9849 201 LES_int_01 283.1402 what did you do as a kid? 284.2392 202 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 284.6420 Um, 285.3937 203 LES_int_01 285.4183 In Jacob Riis, were there playgrounds? 287.1622 204 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 287.1784 yeah. 287.6139 205 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 287.6139 (pause 0.34) 287.9536 206 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 287.9536 I mean, it's still there. My s- up until three years ago my sis- my father moved out, he moved 292.4769 207 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 292.4769 (pause 0.18) 292.6538 208 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 292.6538 back to Georgia. And up until 294.3069 209 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 294.3069 (pause 0.44) 294.7432 210 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 294.7432 three years ago, my sister took over the apartment, 297.1613 211 LES_int_01 297.2029 [She did?] 297.6786 212 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 297.3102 [and she] was there. We [couldn't] get her out of there, [you know, it's like, move already. My father had to leave before she would get out.] 303.2034 213 LES_int_01 298.4386 [Yeah.] 298.6531 214 LES_int_01 298.6531 (pause 0.94) 299.5903 215 LES_int_01 299.5903 [] 303.7178 216 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 303.7719 Um, 304.4217 217 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 304.4217 (pause 0.78) 305.1999 218 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 305.1999 but there were, um, 306.9744 219 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 306.9744 (pause 0.42) 307.3941 220 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 307.3941 there were playgrounds there. 309.4084 221 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 309.4084 (pause 0.08) 309.4924 222 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 309.4924 We lived- 310.0310 223 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 310.0310 (pause 0.28) 310.3084 224 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 310.3084 e- the projects is right across the street from a park. 312.8211 225 LES_int_01 313.1462 [Mm-hm.] 313.5235 226 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 313.4001 [So,] um, 314.7238 227 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 315.0574 across the street from the- 316.3694 228 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 316.3694 (pause 0.25) 316.6180 229 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 316.6180 the projects, there's this park. And in that park there was a nursery, so I went to nursery school [there.] 321.1231 230 LES_int_01 320.9226 [Oh.] 321.8179 231 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 321.4588 [There was a] pre-K 322.5127 232 LES_int_01 322.6385 [Mm-hm.] 322.9288 233 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 322.7178 [there.] I remember, um, 324.4617 234 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 324.7647 having a graduation from nursery school with the little cap and gown. 328.0965 235 LES_int_01 328.2135 [Yeah.] 328.5818 236 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 328.5092 [You] know, my mother curling my hair into these, um, 331.2927 237 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 331.5825 Shirley Temple curls, 332.9084 238 LES_int_01 333.1042 [Right.] 333.6264 239 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 333.2394 [then having] bright, shiny shoes. 335.1584 240 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 335.5870 Um, we used to bicycle from 337.8370 241 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 337.8370 (pause 0.82) 338.6525 242 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 338.6525 Twelfth 339.4485 243 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 339.4485 (pause 0.12) 339.5697 244 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 339.5697 Street, which is, you know, the beginning of the [park.] 342.0037 245 LES_int_01 341.8639 [Yeah.] 342.3208 246 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 342.3387 All the way down to the end of it. 344.0750 247 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 344.0750 (pause 0.39) 344.4651 248 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 344.4651 Down to where South Street Seaport is, 346.9106 249 LES_int_01 347.1969 [Right, so East] River Park, you're [talking about down w- by the water?] 350.6701 250 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 347.2157 [almost there.] 348.2554 251 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 348.2554 (pause 0.86) 349.1159 252 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 349.1159 [East River Park.] 350.1349 253 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 350.1349 (pause 0.33) 350.4603 254 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 350.4603 [Yes.] You [can bicycle all the] way down 352.7651 255 LES_int_01 351.0245 [Yeah.] 352.0457 256 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 353.1684 past, you know, Grand Street, all of that, 355.6843 257 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 355.6843 (pause 0.29) 355.9706 258 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 355.9706 and then turn around and come back. And we would come over the bridge and we'd walk over- 359.6216 259 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 359.6216 (pause 0.55) 360.1706 260 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 360.1706 walk over this bridge on Tenth Street and come back to our house. I remember doing that, I remember playing 364.7029 261 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 364.7029 (pause 0.30) 365.0012 262 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 365.0012 in our, um, 366.5721 263 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 366.5721 (pause 0.49) 367.0617 264 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 367.0617 367.1503 265 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 367.1503 (pause 0.27) 367.4161 266 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 367.4161 um, 367.9836 267 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 367.9836 (pause 0.55) 368.5292 268 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 368.5292 in- in our- in the projects they had playgrounds, [you know, and] I remember this huge concrete 373.6304 269 LES_int_01 371.2244 [Yeah.] 371.5538 270 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 374.0908 airplane, that was right on, 376.1564 271 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 376.1564 (pause 0.45) 376.6053 272 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 376.6053 um, Twelfth Street that I used to play in. And I [remember playing outside,] 380.5020 273 LES_int_01 379.2286 [Oh, cool.] 380.2405 274 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 380.9695 um, 381.7280 275 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 381.7280 (pause 0.59) 382.3165 276 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 382.3165 until I was frozen in the winter. And at that time it seemed, 386.5227 277 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 386.5227 (pause 0.34) 386.8652 278 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 386.8652 and maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like we used to have these huge snowstorms. 390.2706 279 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 390.2706 (pause 0.35) 390.6182 280 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 390.6182 And that snow, and I think it's global warning- [warming,] 393.3878 281 LES_int_01 393.3400 [Yeah.] 393.9229 282 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 393.7961 [ um,] we just don't get as much snow as we did. 396.2870 283 LES_int_01 396.3709 [Right.] 396.7253 284 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 396.5947 [Either] that or I was just smaller [then] and it looked [larger.] 400.5394 285 LES_int_01 398.7291 [] 398.9995 286 LES_int_01 398.9995 (pause 0.62) 399.6243 287 LES_int_01 399.6243 [It seemed really big.] (laughing) 401.0441 288 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 401.6080 And so we played, um, 404.3085 289 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 404.3085 (pause 0.28) 404.5844 290 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 404.5844 until we were frozen, and everybody, 406.9418 291 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 406.9418 (pause 0.37) 407.3149 292 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 407.3149 you know, it was always hanging out the window and telling on you. So there was nothing that you couldn't do- 411.7902 293 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 411.7902 (pause 0.37) 412.1556 294 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 412.1556 that you could do, or- you couldn't do anything bad and get away with it, [because everybody] saw you and there was a- 417.5127 295 LES_int_01 415.5962 [Right.] 415.9693 296 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 417.6199 a sense 418.1350 297 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 418.1350 (pause 0.40) 418.5389 298 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 418.5389 of community. [You know, I remember] Miss /RD-NAME-2/ who lived on the second floor, and you had to walk past her window 423.6940 299 LES_int_01 419.3719 [Right.] 419.9594 300 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 424.0202 to get outside, so therefore my mother knew that I was fine going out. [And] 427.6181 301 LES_int_01 427.5633 [] 429.5864 302 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 427.9605 [there was-] (laughing) 428.7221 303 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 428.7221 (pause 0.34) 429.0601 304 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 429.0601 [there was this,] you know, this thing where you knew who the bad guys wa- were. And that was /RD-NAME2/ who lived in the building behind us, and he was just like the- the community [bully, so everybody stayed] away from him. And, 439.5864 305 LES_int_01 437.5953 [Community bully.] 438.5348 306 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 440.0234 you know, we would deal with the Brownie Scouts, um, 443.2408 307 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 443.2408 (pause 0.56) 443.8050 308 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 443.8050 uh, 444.3634 309 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 444.3634 (pause 0.31) 444.6685 310 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 444.6685 within the projects that we, you know, um, 447.7066 311 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 447.7066 (pause 0.79) 448.4993 312 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 448.4993 I was part of the Brownie Scouts. I remember going to /RD-SCHOOL-5/, 451.9297 313 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 451.9297 (pause 0.40) 452.3270 314 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 452.3270 which is still there. It's right across the street on /RD-ADDRESS-7/. 456.2480 315 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 456.2480 (pause 0.72) 456.9658 316 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 456.9658 [Um,] 457.5347 317 LES_int_01 456.9845 [Oh, yeah.] 457.8654 318 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 457.9071 but it was a new school at that time, 459.9383 319 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 459.9383 (pause 0.18) 460.1187 320 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 460.1187 and I remember them dedicating the- 463.0583 321 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 463.0583 (pause 0.48) 463.5339 322 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 463.5339 the garden and putting a tree, and there was a big thing about the sculpture that is in- 468.9071 323 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 468.9071 (pause 0.32) 469.2313 324 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 469.2313 that's a part of that building. 470.5222 325 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 470.5222 (pause 0.39) 470.9140 326 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 470.9140 There was something special about [it.] 472.6899 327 LES_int_01 472.6261 [Huh.] 473.0934 328 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 473.1670 If you look on the, I think- 475.1536 329 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 475.1536 (pause 0.29) 475.4429 330 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 475.4429 t- 475.5636 331 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 475.5636 (pause 0.78) 476.3397 332 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 476.3397 I think the building is between Twelfth and Eleventh Street, if you look on the Twelfth Street [side] 480.1274 333 LES_int_01 479.6270 [Yeah.] 480.3265 334 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 480.5969 there is a- 481.9165 335 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 481.9165 (pause 0.45) 482.3646 336 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 482.3646 a sculpture there. And there's something very important about that sculpture, 485.5243 337 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 485.5243 (pause 0.14) 485.6689 338 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 485.6689 but I don't remember what. 486.7080 339 LES_int_01 486.7080 [Oh, really?] 487.7239 340 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 486.8433 [But they made a big] to do about it. 488.6944 341 LES_int_01 488.7661 [Okay.] 489.2264 342 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 489.1839 [Um,] and I remember that. I remember taking yoga. 491.5533 343 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 492.3191 You know, [in the sixties,] 493.9281 344 LES_int_01 492.7406 [Really?] 493.3327 345 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 494.3584 [because-] 494.8984 346 LES_int_01 494.6384 [As a] kid? 495.4264 347 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 495.5709 as a kid, [because at] that time they had, um, 499.4912 348 LES_int_01 496.0758 [Good for you.] 496.7807 349 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 500.2512 they had, um, 501.7330 350 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 501.7330 (pause 0.29) 502.0271 351 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 502.0271 it was the first time m- 503.5332 352 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 503.5332 (pause 0.20) 503.7337 353 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 503.7337 that the public school system in New York had this idea of accelerated 507.8881 354 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 507.8881 (pause 0.33) 508.2215 355 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 508.2215 programs. 508.9572 356 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 508.9572 (pause 0.40) 509.3550 357 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 509.3550 You know, I'm sure they had other [forms of it,] 511.2758 358 LES_int_01 510.6327 [Like, the tracking system?] 512.0824 359 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 512.0352 [but-] no, the gifted and talented programs. 514.3555 360 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 514.7683 So, um, they called it uh, s- s- S-P was for junior high [school,] 520.1106 361 LES_int_01 519.6677 [Yeah.] 520.4978 362 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 520.4604 [and] then they called it I-G-C, Intellectually Gifted Children. 523.4999 363 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 523.9000 And they started it 525.0245 364 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 525.0245 (pause 0.29) 525.3159 365 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 525.3159 when I was in third grade, so I was in that first group- 528.3015 366 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 528.3015 (pause 0.20) 528.4974 367 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 528.4974 I think. 529.1306 368 LES_int_01 529.3553 [Yeah.] 529.7485 369 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 529.6242 [And] I was in the third and fourth grade, they combined them. And then I think fourth and fifth, and fifth and sixth- I don't remember how they did it, 535.4757 370 LES_int_01 535.5503 [Mm-hm.] 535.9700 371 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 535.9254 [but] I was part of that group. [So] I got to participate 539.3635 372 LES_int_01 537.2237 [Yeah.] 537.5734 373 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 539.4864 in all these different programs. 540.9484 374 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 540.9484 (pause 0.54) 541.4843 375 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 541.4843 The public school system actually did very well by me. I [mean,] 544.8989 376 LES_int_01 544.6996 [Really?] 545.1913 377 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 545.8087 I have a /de- I'm-/ 547.1351 378 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 547.1351 (pause 0.14) 547.2703 379 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 547.2703 but, I mean, look at me. I grew up in the [projects.] 549.5026 380 LES_int_01 549.3546 [Yeah.] 549.7894 381 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 550.6696 I got a full scholarship to /RD-SCHOOL-2/ 552.7770 382 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 552.7770 (pause 0.17) 552.9484 383 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 552.9484 [College.] 553.6177 384 LES_int_01 553.3494 [Amazing.] 554.1841 385 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 554.2107 You know, and they found me. I had no idea they existed, but [they found me] based on my s- 558.4453 386 LES_int_01 557.0138 [Really?] 557.4242 387 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 558.5806 test scores. 559.4373 388 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 559.4373 (pause 0.27) 559.7054 389 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 559.7054 Got a full scholarship, 561.0549 390 LES_int_01 561.2978 [That's incredible.] 562.1206 391 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 561.3402 [I ended up working for] Citibank and then getting an MBA in finance from [RD-SCHOOL-3]. 566.4884 392 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 566.8460 And then, you know, here I am, the senior vice president and a director 570.8405 393 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 570.8405 (pause 0.65) 571.4889 394 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 571.4889 at [/RD-WORK-5/]. 572.9506 395 LES_int_01 571.9919 [Incredible.] 573.1250 396 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 573.2462 It's amazing. 574.2301 397 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 574.2301 (pause 0.12) 574.3513 398 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 574.3513 You know, [so- but that's-] 575.7416 399 LES_int_01 574.7803 [That's a cool little story.] 576.0766 400 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 576.2509 that's my whole story. 577.3069 401 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 577.3069 (pause 0.29) 577.5960 402 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 577.5960 But I'm giving you like l- little details. 579.4839 403 LES_int_01 579.4839 [Little d- details.] 580.6636 404 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 580.0061 [There used to] be a chicken market 581.8944 405 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 582.1464 on- 583.2237 406 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 583.2237 (pause 0.46) 583.6801 407 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 583.6801 where the pool is on Tenth Street and Avenue D. 586.4883 408 LES_int_01 586.4863 [Okay.] 586.9768 409 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 586.8856 [Right?] 587.2083 410 LES_int_01 587.4278 [Yeah.] 587.8068 411 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 587.5388 [That used] to be a chicken market. 588.9098 412 LES_int_01 589.0415 Like, live [chickens?] 590.1780 413 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 589.7313 [Like live] chickens. Like, you could- and I think for years after that, I could still smell the [chickens.] 594.8054 414 LES_int_01 594.6397 [Oh, no. ] 596.0466 415 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 595.3476 [You can ask anybody] who's old enough, 597.4187 416 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 597.6980 down there. My mother- we used to go down there and get chickens, and I remember 600.9614 417 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 600.9614 (pause 0.31) 601.2691 418 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 601.2691 all there were were chicken coops. 602.7091 419 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 602.7091 (pause 0.45) 603.1569 420 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 603.1569 And [we'd walk in,] and there were these little chicken coops. 605.5405 421 LES_int_01 603.3475 [Wow.] 604.0702 422 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 605.8610 I remember that, and I remember they used to sell milk, 608.5320 423 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 608.5320 (pause 0.18) 608.7092 424 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 608.7092 um, in the projects. I'm looking out the window cause I wanted to look in that direction [since it's right there.] 614.0197 425 LES_int_01 613.1383 [Yeah.] 613.6810 426 LES_int_01 613.6810 (pause 0.18) 613.8657 427 LES_int_01 613.8657 [Oh, okay. ] 615.1986 428 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 614.6058 [Um,] 615.1283 429 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 615.5437 but they used to sell milk, 617.3333 430 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 617.3333 (pause 0.18) 617.5108 431 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 617.5108 uh, in the projects. And 619.2780 432 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 619.2780 (pause 0.33) 619.6070 433 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 619.6070 there was, um, 620.4512 434 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 620.4512 (pause 0.72) 621.1752 435 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 621.1752 just a little place. And I don't know who sponsored it and why it was there 624.3786 436 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 624.3786 (pause 0.33) 624.7090 437 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 624.7090 and why we didn't go to the store, 626.3145 438 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 626.3145 (pause 0.33) 626.6435 439 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 626.6435 but 627.2153 440 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 627.2153 (pause 0.18) 627.3989 441 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 627.3989 you- y- 628.0591 442 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 628.0591 (pause 0.18) 628.2429 443 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 628.2429 you- 628.6159 444 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 628.6159 (pause 0.27) 628.8855 445 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 628.8855 I was upset 629.7523 446 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 629.7523 (pause 0.12) 629.8731 447 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 629.8731 because my sister was in 631.4776 448 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 631.4776 (pause 0.11) 631.5849 449 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 631.5849 school and I couldn't go to school, so my mother said, you're in milk school. 635.2344 450 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 635.2344 (pause 0.20) 635.4365 451 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 635.4365 [ So we used to go and get] milk 638.3635 452 LES_int_01 635.9994 [Oh. ] 637.6454 453 LES_int_01 638.4660 [] 639.5805 454 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 638.8810 [] 640.1190 455 LES_int_01 640.4465 [That's cute.] 641.3651 456 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 640.7138 [And that was-] I don't know what that [was about, but it seemed to satisfy] me, and I do remember that. And I remember there was this guy, 647.3862 457 LES_int_01 642.3303 [] 643.4855 458 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 647.8516 I wanna call him Frank, 649.0721 459 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 649.0721 (pause 0.40) 649.4741 460 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 649.4741 but I don't know if that was his real name, who had a hot dog 652.1018 461 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 652.1018 (pause 0.47) 652.5723 462 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 652.5723 stand. You know, just one of those hot /dor/ 654.4093 463 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 654.4093 (pause 0.14) 654.5539 464 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 654.5539 vendors [on Tenth] Street and Avenue B, and he was there for years and we would stop there 658.5782 465 LES_int_01 654.9962 [Yeah.] 655.4316 466 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 658.9591 and get hot dogs. My mother loved hot dogs with, um, 661.8654 467 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 661.8654 (pause 0.46) 662.3220 468 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 662.3220 ketchup and onions. 663.3535 469 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 663.3535 (pause 0.09) 663.4394 470 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 663.4394 And we would get hot dogs and- and go home, and 666.1952 471 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 666.1952 (pause 0.40) 666.5935 472 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 666.5935 see, he seemed to have the best food. And where that 669.2295 473 LES_int_01 669.2941 [Yeah.] 669.7178 474 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 669.6102 [storage] place is, there was a little bodega, which I think is still there on Avenue B between Ninth and Tenth Street. 675.4730 475 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 675.7795 And where housing wor- not on Avenue B, on Avenue D. 678.3987 476 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 678.3987 (pause 0.55) 678.9497 477 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 678.9497 [And] 679.6444 478 LES_int_01 678.9497 [Okay.] 679.3087 479 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 679.8651 h- where Housing Works [is, that was] all, like, tenements. 683.0870 480 LES_int_01 681.3638 [Yeah.] 681.8580 481 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 683.4621 And then further down 684.9506 482 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 684.9506 (pause 0.67) 685.6240 483 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 685.6240 um, 686.1003 484 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 686.1003 (pause 0.24) 686.3374 485 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 686.3374 to me, in my t- 687.7047 486 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 687.7047 (pause 0.21) 687.9105 487 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 687.9105 little mind, as you went further down, 690.6449 488 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 690.6449 (pause 0.50) 691.1410 489 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 691.1410 um, 691.8808 490 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 691.8808 (pause 0.35) 692.2301 491 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 692.2301 town 692.8447 492 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 692.8447 (pause 0.14) 692.9818 493 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 692.9818 in the projects, it got scarier. 694.6914 494 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 694.6914 (pause 0.38) 695.0682 495 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 695.0682 And I- 695.4658 496 LES_int_01 695.4658 [Huh.] 695.8668 497 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 695.6272 [I always] thought of it as 696.7578 498 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 696.9906 more violent. 697.8514 499 LES_int_01 698.1750 [Huh.] 698.4361 500 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 698.2399 [I think] it was just more unknown. 699.9982 501 LES_int_01 700.2254 Right. 700.6906 502 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 700.9155 But I think it was more violent. And then the other projects, Lillian Wald, were [down there.] 704.8921 503 LES_int_01 704.3832 [Lillian Wald.] 705.0841 504 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 705.2800 But Sixth Street, I remember 707.5122 505 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 707.5122 (pause 0.18) 707.6890 506 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 707.6890 was an area where there were, 710.2844 507 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 710.2844 (pause 0.56) 710.8420 508 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 710.8420 um, a lot of old, 712.8503 509 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 712.8503 (pause 0.43) 713.2796 510 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 713.2796 um, 713.9962 511 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 713.9962 (pause 0.33) 714.3287 512 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 714.3287 tenements. 715.1132 513 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 715.1132 (pause 0.60) 715.7103 514 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 715.7103 And they filmed the Godfather there. 717.6439 515 LES_int_01 717.8386 I've heard that. 718.9421 516 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 719.0469 And I remember them filming that. 720.6597 517 LES_int_01 720.6597 Oh, [wow.] 721.8685 518 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 721.3118 [But that whole] area was important for a number of reasons. One, because it was intact. 725.9877 519 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 726.7288 And it was one of the few blocks that was intact, and that's where they filmed 730.2904 520 LES_int_01 730.4305 [Yes.] 730.8325 521 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 730.7243 [that-] the [Godfather.] 732.2344 522 LES_int_01 732.0432 [I] interviewed a woman who was in one of the- an extra 735.2280 523 LES_int_01 735.7178 at the age of like, eleven. 737.0476 524 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 737.2178 Mm. 737.5815 525 LES_int_01 737.7260 In the movie. 738.4710 526 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 738.8206 [Mm-hm.] 739.2413 527 LES_int_01 739.1243 [And] they only hired a, like, Italian [Americans,] 741.8847 528 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 741.6236 [Yep.] 741.9220 529 LES_int_01 742.2346 because they were recreating this, like, 743.8518 530 LES_int_01 743.8518 (pause 0.11) 743.9637 531 LES_int_01 743.9637 this scene, and she was- her- she was Italian. And sh- and as l- as like, a little eleven year old, she dressed up in the [old costume and like,] 750.2620 532 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 749.3527 [] 750.8509 533 LES_int_01 750.5091 [walked up] and down the [street. Isn't that] funny? 752.4116 534 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 751.3391 [Yes.] 752.0106 535 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 752.4997 It is. [And it's- it's-] 753.6600 536 LES_int_01 752.9372 [I- I went back] and watched the movie, I was like, I couldn't believe it. [Cause I live on] /RD-ADDRESS-6/. 757.1676 537 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 755.2034 [it's that same-] 755.9565 538 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 757.4323 but it's that same street. 758.5563 539 LES_int_01 758.2470 [It's just] right there, [yeah.] 759.4407 540 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 759.1236 [Yeah. It was right around the corner, see is-] n- that s- [weird?] 762.2384 541 LES_int_01 759.7951 [Right around the corner.] 760.6064 542 LES_int_01 760.6064 (pause 0.17) 760.7743 543 LES_int_01 760.7743 [I don't believe it.] 761.2825 544 LES_int_01 761.2825 (pause 0.77) 762.0566 545 LES_int_01 762.0566 [I know,] I [love it.] 762.9938 546 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 762.5042 [And to go] back- and I think that s- block is still intact. 765.3619 547 LES_int_01 765.4732 [Yeah.] 765.7838 548 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 765.7453 [It's] one of a few. 766.8041 549 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 767.1315 They also had, um, 769.0962 550 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 769.0962 (pause 0.60) 769.6925 551 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 769.6925 push ka- 770.2631 552 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 770.2631 (pause 0.25) 770.5156 553 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 770.5156 carts. Did anybody tell you about the [push carts?] 772.7810 554 LES_int_01 772.0792 [Um, I've] heard about the one like, Orchard Street 774.6464 555 LES_int_01 774.8210 [kind of area.] 775.8975 556 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 774.9189 [No, they weren't] that far down. [They were on, um,] 778.3502 557 LES_int_01 776.8487 [Oh, really? Were they on Avenue D?] 778.4997 558 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 778.6673 778.8631 559 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 778.8631 (pause 0.18) 779.0393 560 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 779.0393 no. They were on, I think between B and C and like, Third [Street?] 783.2356 561 LES_int_01 783.1221 [Huh.] 783.5401 562 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 783.9418 That, from what I understand, there- 785.6016 563 LES_int_01 785.3519 [I haven't] heard that. 786.2192 564 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 786.2192 /you mean, e-/ 787.5202 565 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 787.7201 Job- Odd Job? 789.1376 566 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 789.1376 (pause 0.17) 789.3101 567 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 789.3101 Do you remember those? And Odd Lot. 790.8342 568 LES_int_01 791.2399 [No.] 791.9487 569 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 791.3658 [There used to] be 792.3683 570 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 792.6434 up until like, maybe five or six years ago, these stores called Odd Job Trading? 797.5895 571 LES_int_01 797.7502 Okay. 798.1863 572 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 798.3155 My understanding is that- or Odd Lot Trading, something like that, 802.1299 573 LES_int_01 802.1578 [Okay.] 802.5309 574 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 802.4703 [where] you could go. They're the Dollar Stores, but they were s- they were bigger than Dollar Stores. [They're like Ja-] do you know Jacks? 808.6893 575 LES_int_01 807.1925 [Huh.] 807.7241 576 LES_int_01 809.2162 Uh, yeah. 809.8631 577 LES_int_01 809.8631 (pause 0.22) 810.0782 578 LES_int_01 810.0782 Yeah. 810.3160 579 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 810.3253 They're like the- it was a Jacks, [but it was called] Odd Job. It has since gone out of business, 815.3167 580 LES_int_01 812.2878 [Okay.] 812.8088 581 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 815.6965 but until maybe five years ago, there was one right over here on Fourty-eighth [Street. Between] 819.9647 582 LES_int_01 819.1363 [Oh, okay.] 820.0036 583 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 821.2686 Fifth and Sixth. 822.0918 584 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 822.0918 (pause 0.21) 822.3058 585 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 822.3058 In [any case,] my understanding is the start to those stores 825.2387 586 LES_int_01 822.4783 [Interesting.] 822.9399 587 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 825.4859 were the push carts 826.5833 588 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 826.5833 (pause 0.60) 827.1862 589 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 827.1862 on Third Street. 828.3523 590 LES_int_01 828.4315 [Oh.] 829.5973 591 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 828.8561 [So the push] carts sold pots and pans, 831.8728 592 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 832.2764 my mother used to by, um, soil 834.6099 593 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 834.6099 (pause 0.52) 835.1262 594 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 835.1262 um, 835.9508 595 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 835.9508 (pause 0.14) 836.0948 596 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 836.0948 by the pot. The- the literal flower pot full. 839.0899 597 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 839.0899 (pause 0.58) 839.6705 598 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 839.6705 You know, for a nickel or [whatever.] 841.5877 599 LES_int_01 841.4618 [That's] incredible. 842.2824 600 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 842.3217 I also remember 843.7398 601 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 843.7398 (pause 0.32) 844.0590 602 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 844.0590 the buses. The- the lowest fair I think I remember- 848.4175 603 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 848.4175 (pause 0.75) 849.1667 604 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 849.1667 I know fifteen cents for sure, but I wanna say ten cents. 852.3918 605 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 852.3918 (pause 1.17) 853.5594 606 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 853.5594 You know, and it had- and it was the old, 855.9740 607 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 855.9740 (pause 0.33) 856.3009 608 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 856.3009 old, old, old, buses. (laughing) 859.5183 609 LES_int_01 859.5717 Right. 860.2021 610 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 860.2021 Old buses where they had- and I remember the 863.0970 611 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 863.2743 th- the 863.9024 612 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 863.9024 (pause 0.11) 864.0156 613 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 864.0156 coined thing that they- 865.4610 614 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 865.4610 (pause 0.14) 865.5965 615 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 865.5965 the money dropped [into. And the] driver would give you change back [for you dollar. ] 871.2333 616 LES_int_01 866.8828 [Yeah.] 867.3922 617 LES_int_01 867.3922 (pause 2.06) 869.4520 618 LES_int_01 869.4520 [] 871.1027 619 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 871.8478 And, [um] 873.2656 620 LES_int_01 872.8460 [And now, where] were you going on the bus? Where did you go as [a kid?] 875.8849 621 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 875.3361 [We went to, um-] 877.1826 622 LES_int_01 876.5890 [Did you leave the] neighborhood? 877.7730 623 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 878.0935 all the time. 878.9344 624 LES_int_01 878.9995 You did? 879.4142 625 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 879.4427 My mother would go on strike 881.3206 626 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 881.3206 (pause 0.12) 881.4418 627 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 881.4418 on 882.1219 628 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 882.1219 (pause 0.43) 882.5469 629 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 882.5469 weekends, so my father was responsible for [myself and my sister.] 886.7289 630 LES_int_01 885.5072 [Now what do you parents both] do? Is [your mom home] with [you?] 888.1576 631 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 887.3304 [My m-] 887.7547 632 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 887.7547 (pause 0.34) 888.0968 633 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 888.0968 [she] was [home, and my] father, um, was a clerk 892.1918 634 LES_int_01 888.7007 [Mm-hm.] 889.0877 635 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 892.3433 in a, uh, for a textile. He always- he was always in the same industry, and he retired 896.8382 636 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 896.8382 (pause 0.45) 897.2884 637 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 897.2884 from textiles, but he was a [clerk.] He was like a shipping clerk. [He was the guy] that mailed out your 902.1839 638 LES_int_01 898.7047 [Wow.] 899.1383 639 LES_int_01 899.1383 (pause 1.24) 900.3740 640 LES_int_01 900.3740 [Oh.] 900.7797 641 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 902.6308 [bolts of-] 903.8118 642 LES_int_01 902.7561 [Your order.] 903.5441 643 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 903.9739 of fabric. 905.1388 644 LES_int_01 905.1577 Okay. 905.5691 645 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 905.6623 And 906.3537 646 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 906.3537 (pause 0.16) 906.5091 647 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 906.5091 he- my mother would go on strike 908.4162 648 LES_int_01 908.7047 [] 909.4787 649 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 908.8809 [and he] would have to do our hair. 911.2313 650 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 912.1315 It was horrible. [Horrible.] 913.9212 651 LES_int_01 913.6793 [] 914.3408 652 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 914.3908 And he would have to do our hair and, um, 917.9570 653 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 917.9570 (pause 0.35) 918.3048 654 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 918.3048 he would take us places. 919.6979 655 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 919.6979 (pause 0.11) 919.8098 656 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 919.8098 Um, he was very involved in the church. 922.3178 657 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 922.3178 (pause 0.43) 922.7514 658 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 922.7514 My mother not so much as my father, [she went because] he went. 926.1540 659 LES_int_01 924.4434 [Oh.] 924.9296 660 LES_int_01 926.3872 [Okay.] 926.9001 661 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 926.5924 [But he] would take us places. He would, 928.6813 662 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 929.1709 um, y- we would say, daddy where are we going? Oh I'm going to see a man about a dog. Oh, really are we getting a dog? And we would fall for this like, [every week. ] 936.7548 663 LES_int_01 935.6038 [] 937.7047 664 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 937.2185 [And he would take] us places. He would take us to museums or- 941.0075 665 LES_int_01 941.2540 [Huh.] 941.6661 666 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 941.5244 [he] always take us to some place weird. Like, I remember going all the way up 945.4688 667 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 945.6717 to the northern most part- 947.6269 668 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 947.6269 (pause 0.13) 947.7531 669 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 947.7531 point in Manhattan 949.1509 670 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 949.1509 (pause 0.31) 949.4628 671 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 949.4628 to see an old Dutch house. 950.9902 672 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 950.9902 (pause 0.42) 951.4089 673 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 951.4089 You know, and we would walk through there, or we would go to a museum, [or we would go to] the- one of the parks. 956.4984 674 LES_int_01 954.3115 [Huh.] 954.9732 675 LES_int_01 956.7356 Now, [that seems] like a rare thing for a family 959.5893 676 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 956.9081 [/And./] 957.1939 677 LES_int_01 959.8318 growing in /RD-ADDRESS-3/, right? That you were off 962.6413 678 LES_int_01 962.6413 (pause 0.14) 962.7821 679 LES_int_01 962.7821 on the weekends at a museum, or something like [that.] 965.1229 680 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 964.9594 [Well,] I think to the extent that, one, that we were- 968.0173 681 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 968.7530 for African American families, I think that's true. 971.5227 682 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 971.5227 (pause 0.23) 971.7522 683 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 971.7522 I think that there wer- 972.7740 684 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 972.7740 (pause 0.54) 973.3188 685 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 973.3188 I'm trying to [think] 974.4741 686 LES_int_01 974.4161 [May-] maybe I'm thinking more today. 976.4605 687 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 976.6330 because 977.4956 688 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 977.4956 (pause 0.17) 977.6631 689 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 977.6631 at that time, remember, there were other different ethnic [groups.] 981.2104 690 LES_int_01 981.0988 [Right.] 981.6304 691 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 981.6284 Those ethnic groups, those families, were intact. 984.4054 692 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 984.9171 The other African American families, 987.1163 693 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 987.1163 (pause 1.16) 988.2737 694 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 988.2737 there weren't a lot of fathers around, that I [remember.] 991.0428 695 LES_int_01 990.8936 [Right.] 991.6163 696 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 991.6810 Um, I remember all the mothers. 994.1069 697 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 994.1069 (pause 0.17) 994.2778 698 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 994.2778 And I remember the fathers being there at some point, but not consistent. 998.0779 699 LES_int_01 998.1696 Okay. 998.5662 700 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 998.6368 So I think that for us, 1000.6978 701 LES_int_01 1000.9794 [Yeah.] 1001.3843 702 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1001.0324 [that was] a rarity. 1002.2592 703 LES_int_01 1002.3012 [Yeah.] 1002.6975 704 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1002.6975 The other rare- but in terms of what those other families did, I'm not really sure. 1007.3318 705 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1007.4291 You [know, I know that- cause we did it] 1009.4708 706 LES_int_01 1007.8854 [Maybe they did as well, yeah.] 1009.5848 707 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1010.0070 as a group. 1011.1776 708 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1011.1776 (pause 0.17) 1011.3499 709 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1011.3499 You know, or d- usually my mother did not go, she stayed home, she relaxed, or whatever. But we usually took 1016.2276 710 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1016.2276 (pause 0.26) 1016.4856 711 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1016.4856 trips with my father, 1017.5916 712 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1017.5916 (pause 0.29) 1017.8854 713 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1017.8854 and I think that was [unusual too.] 1019.7785 714 LES_int_01 1019.2516 [Yeah.] 1019.8811 715 LES_int_01 1020.0157 [Yeah.] 1020.3698 716 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1020.2578 [You] know, as a group we went to church a- 1022.2013 717 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1022.4241 and we always went to Harlem. 1023.8393 718 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1023.8393 (pause 0.37) 1024.2071 719 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1024.2071 So we went up to Harlem and we were going up there, my father finally bought a car, 1028.7946 720 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1028.7946 (pause 0.33) 1029.1257 721 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1029.1257 um, during the riots, 1030.9383 722 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1030.9383 (pause 0.14) 1031.0828 723 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1031.0828 [in the sixties and seventies, so we s-] saw h- Harlem burning 1035.0766 724 LES_int_01 1031.2831 [Mm. Mm-hm.] 1032.1879 725 LES_int_01 1032.1879 (pause 0.41) 1032.5936 726 LES_int_01 1032.5936 [Mm-hm.] 1033.0366 727 LES_int_01 1035.2235 [Wow.] 1035.6985 728 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1035.4980 [and] burnt. 1036.2560 729 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1036.7336 Um, 1037.5217 730 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1037.5217 (pause 0.53) 1038.0486 731 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1038.0486 so it was interesting. And at that time, 1040.2162 732 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1040.2162 (pause 0.24) 1040.4586 733 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1040.4586 you know, the focus for me was the school. 1042.9520 734 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1042.9520 (pause 0.25) 1043.2038 735 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1043.2038 I remember going to the library. The library on Tenth Street was our [library.] 1047.1969 736 LES_int_01 1046.9528 [Yeah.] 1047.4097 737 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1047.5350 The, um, dorms where- on Fourteenth Street, 1051.6885 738 LES_int_01 1051.8009 [Mm-hm.] 1052.0947 739 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1051.8848 [See, cause] I'm on the northern part of the Lower East Side. 1054.3502 740 LES_int_01 1054.3689 [Right.] 1054.7746 741 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1054.6720 [And] I think that some people don't count where we were as the Lower East Side. The Lower East Side [I th-] 1059.4620 742 LES_int_01 1059.1564 [Yeah.] 1059.6740 743 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1060.0983 has become 1060.9749 744 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1060.9749 (pause 0.45) 1061.4219 745 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1061.4219 more south of Houston [Street.] 1064.0058 746 LES_int_01 1063.8052 [Some] people think that, [right.] 1065.2280 747 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1064.9020 [Yeah,] and they don't count north of Houston Street as being the- I don't know what it is. I think they consider it to be the East [Village.] 1071.0460 748 LES_int_01 1070.9283 [Yeah.] What do you consider it to [be?] 1072.5900 749 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1072.4717 [] 1072.5696 750 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1072.6815 I consider- I've always considered it to be the Lower [East Side.] 1075.4071 751 LES_int_01 1074.9331 [Yeah.] 1075.5246 752 LES_int_01 1075.6552 I mean, the term East Village I think wasn't even created until like, the [seventies. So at] the time you were growing up, 1081.3386 753 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1079.6926 [Right.] 1080.3081 754 LES_int_01 1081.5811 I don't think there was another name 1082.9395 755 LES_int_01 1082.9395 (pause 0.17) 1083.1052 756 LES_int_01 1083.1052 for the neigborhood, except 1084.0938 757 LES_int_01 1084.0938 (pause 0.14) 1084.2383 758 LES_int_01 1084.2383 Lower East Side. 1085.1289 759 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1085.3881 And I also think that- 1086.9199 760 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1086.9199 (pause 1.10) 1088.0186 761 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1088.0186 yes. I absolutely agree with you. 1089.8039 762 LES_int_01 1089.8039 [Yeah. So it's more- I think newer people] that view the north of Houston as the East Village, and this different thing. 1095.6689 763 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1089.9997 [I'm- it's always been the Lower East Side.] 1091.6480 764 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1096.1308 [Yes.] 1096.6011 765 LES_int_01 1096.1721 [Like, you talk] to [folks that have been here- yeah, that have been around] for a while, they say, no it's all Lower- and historically it was all one [neighborhood. Yeah.] 1103.0533 766 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1096.9229 [Alphabet City. Yeah, become-] 1099.1471 767 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1099.1471 (pause 2.94) 1102.0887 768 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1102.0887 [It was.] 1102.9226 769 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1103.3564 And 1103.5802 770 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1103.5802 (pause 0.35) 1103.9299 771 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1103.9299 the other thing I was gonna say is Fourteenth Street on- 1106.8202 772 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1106.8202 (pause 1.01) 1107.8321 773 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1107.8321 right on Irving Place where, um, PC Richards is [and also where] NYU dorms were. 1112.8388 774 LES_int_01 1111.0250 [Oh, yeah.] 1111.5891 775 LES_int_01 1112.9122 Right. 1113.2305 776 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1113.2631 There was the Palladium 1114.2833 777 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1114.2833 (pause 0.45) 1114.7353 778 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1114.7353 that was a- a discotheque for a while, [right.] 1117.8128 779 LES_int_01 1117.3745 [Oh.] 1118.1872 780 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1118.4365 And before that it was a movie theater. 1120.5487 781 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1120.5487 (pause 0.28) 1120.8244 782 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1120.8244 It was my neighborhood movie [theater.] 1123.1674 783 LES_int_01 1122.5304 [Oh, really?] 1123.3697 784 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1123.3697 And Fourteenth Street, between Second and Third Avenue, 1126.1245 785 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1126.4855 was all these, like, X-rated film 1129.1644 786 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1129.1644 (pause 0.36) 1129.5234 787 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1129.5234 [places. Yes.] 1130.9550 788 LES_int_01 1129.7752 [Really?] 1130.5444 789 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1131.5238 [And-] 1132.1279 790 LES_int_01 1131.7370 [When was] this? In the sixties? 1133.2432 791 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1133.2898 In the sixties. I'm trying to remember, 1135.2249 792 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1135.2249 (pause 0.43) 1135.6564 793 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1135.6564 [um, sixties, seventies.] 1137.3345 794 LES_int_01 1135.9703 [Interesting.] 1136.9542 795 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1137.5790 Sixties, seventies. 1138.8753 796 LES_int_01 1138.8986 Very [interesting.] 1140.0410 797 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1139.8545 [] 1139.9757 798 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1140.1337 I remember the blackout. 1141.1833 799 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1141.1833 (pause 0.20) 1141.3873 800 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1141.3873 The first blackout. 1142.4961 801 LES_int_01 1142.6696 [Yes.] 1143.2944 802 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1143.2485 And having- and being at home and listening to the radio. And- 1146.7293 803 LES_int_01 1146.8323 How did that affect your family then? 1148.5902 804 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1148.6249 well, I just remember waiting for my father to come home, 1151.1688 805 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1151.1688 (pause 0.23) 1151.4001 806 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1151.4001 you know. And it didn't affect us very much. [There was no] babies born after that or [anything.] 1156.7677 807 LES_int_01 1154.2264 [Yeah.] 1154.7300 808 LES_int_01 1154.7300 (pause 1.71) 1156.4413 809 LES_int_01 1156.4413 [Okay. ] 1159.0139 810 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1157.2466 [] 1158.1839 811 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1158.1839 (pause 0.50) 1158.6828 812 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1158.6828 [But,] um, 1159.6154 813 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1159.7739 no. 1160.2635 814 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1160.2635 (pause 0.41) 1160.6739 815 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1160.6739 [No.] 1161.0686 816 LES_int_01 1160.6739 [/Well,/ where your parents, um, 1162.6180 817 LES_int_01 1162.8438 strict or lax as parents? When were you allowed to kind of go out and explore in the neighborhood, or did you stay close to [home?] 1169.0612 818 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1168.9340 [Very] much so. You know, I think that, 1171.7410 819 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1171.8910 um, 1172.8716 820 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1172.8716 (pause 1.40) 1174.2709 821 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1174.2709 I think that 1175.2966 822 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1175.2966 (pause 0.30) 1175.5920 823 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1175.5920 they were- 1176.3753 824 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1176.3753 (pause 1.57) 1177.9461 825 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1177.9461 the- one of the trips that we took was to the library. There was always this thing about- 1182.9674 826 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1182.9674 (pause 0.17) 1183.1393 827 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1183.1393 there was school and learning was always like a focal center. 1186.4278 828 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1186.4278 (pause 0.43) 1186.8543 829 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1186.8543 But it wasn't 1187.9501 830 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1187.9501 (pause 0.66) 1188.6122 831 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1188.6122 n- beaten into us. It was like, 1190.7456 832 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1190.7456 (pause 0.14) 1190.8824 833 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1190.8824 you have to- 1191.9502 834 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1191.9502 (pause 0.15) 1192.1041 835 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1192.1041 my sister and I, 1193.2477 836 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1193.2477 (pause 0.23) 1193.4750 837 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1193.4750 luckily, 1194.1931 838 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1194.1931 (pause 0.27) 1194.4635 839 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1194.4635 loved school. 1195.4663 840 LES_int_01 1195.6799 Okay. 1196.0902 841 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1196.0902 We loved school, [loved] learning, loved education, [loved] reading. 1200.9720 842 LES_int_01 1197.3346 [Yeah.] 1197.8009 843 LES_int_01 1197.8009 (pause 2.23) 1200.0264 844 LES_int_01 1200.0264 [Yeah.] 1200.3002 845 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1201.2881 We would go to the library and get books. 1203.7588 846 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1203.7588 (pause 0.14) 1203.8987 847 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1203.8987 I r- two memories, vivid memories, 1206.1795 848 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1206.1795 (pause 0.38) 1206.5599 849 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1206.5599 one was taking the shopping cart, for whatever reason, to the library 1210.1503 850 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1210.1503 (pause 0.33) 1210.4761 851 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1210.4761 s- and I don't know why we had this shopping cart, 1213.1293 852 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1213.1293 (pause 0.40) 1213.5303 853 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1213.5303 but 1213.9872 854 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1213.9872 (pause 0.37) 1214.3556 855 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1214.3556 putting books in it. 1216.1682 856 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1216.1682 (pause 0.14) 1216.3081 857 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1216.3081 Coming home, 1217.0018 858 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1217.0018 (pause 0.19) 1217.1940 859 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1217.1940 putting book in the- 1218.1220 860 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1218.1220 (pause 0.10) 1218.2245 861 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1218.2245 [in the shopping cart and by the time] we got home, there were no books because they had fallen out of the shopping [cart.] 1222.9192 862 LES_int_01 1218.2245 [] 1219.5155 863 LES_int_01 1219.5155 (pause 3.25) 1222.7609 864 LES_int_01 1222.7609 [] 1223.6679 865 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1223.2457 [And we had] all these books, and I remember I had to pay for them. (laughing) 1226.5645 866 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1226.9236 [And I was like, mortified.] It's like, why did you? 1231.5299 867 LES_int_01 1227.0395 [Oh, no.] 1228.6946 868 LES_int_01 1231.6412 [] 1232.7043 869 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1232.4392 [That's-] that's one thing. And then the other memory is 1235.2459 870 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1235.6826 the- probably the one beating, 1237.6708 871 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1237.6708 (pause 0.52) 1238.1866 872 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1238.1866 um, spanking that my father every gave me, [my mother used] to spank me all the time, 1242.6390 873 LES_int_01 1240.9612 [Yeah.] 1241.4267 874 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1243.2219 was, um, 1245.0999 875 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1245.0999 (pause 0.47) 1245.5667 876 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1245.5667 1245.6900 877 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1245.6900 (pause 1.06) 1246.7451 878 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1246.7451 was 1247.3140 879 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1247.3140 (pause 0.13) 1247.4402 880 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1247.4402 catch- he came to my room and he was like, 1249.3796 881 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1249.3796 (pause 0.09) 1249.4682 882 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1249.4682 go to bed. And I was like, 1250.5383 883 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1250.5383 (pause 0.23) 1250.7645 884 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1250.7645 reading, and I- and he came in like, two times. The third time, I'm under the covers 1255.3490 885 LES_int_01 1255.6174 With a [flashlight? ] 1258.2099 886 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1256.2468 [with a flashlight. And he gave me a] spanking for that. 1259.3423 887 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1259.7667 Um, 1260.5214 888 LES_int_01 1260.6147 [/Okay./] 1260.9877 889 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1260.7033 [so] 1261.5958 890 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1263.0067 e- this- there was this whole thing about school, so 1265.7758 891 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1265.7758 (pause 0.37) 1266.1442 892 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1266.1442 if we said we had school work, we didn't have to do any other work. 1269.2957 893 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1269.2957 (pause 0.35) 1269.6448 894 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1269.6448 We [didn't have to do] anything. 1270.9644 895 LES_int_01 1269.7427 [Wow.] 1270.2323 896 LES_int_01 1271.0063 Wow. 1271.3980 897 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1271.4073 So 1272.2933 898 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1272.2933 (pause 0.15) 1272.4459 899 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1272.4459 if we were- if we had homework, my parents were like, fine. 1275.2203 900 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1275.2203 (pause 0.29) 1275.5141 901 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1275.5141 But there was never a pressure to succeed, there was never 1278.4517 902 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1278.4517 (pause 0.12) 1278.5729 903 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1278.5729 pre- i- 1279.0666 904 LES_int_01 1279.0666 Yeah. 1279.6121 905 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1279.7567 but it- the- I guess [in-] 1281.3281 906 LES_int_01 1280.9114 [But they supported] you. 1282.1454 907 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1282.2920 totally. [So,] 1283.7911 908 LES_int_01 1282.9308 [Yeah.] 1283.3412 909 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1284.9592 you know, we were always- we excelled in school. We just [always did] well. And [so with] that 1291.3088 910 LES_int_01 1288.1333 [Okay.] 1288.7955 911 LES_int_01 1288.7955 (pause 1.09) 1289.8866 912 LES_int_01 1289.8866 [Yeah.] 1290.4584 913 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1291.7611 came the freedom to do other things. And I think 1295.2343 914 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1295.2343 (pause 0.97) 1296.2035 915 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1296.2035 by giving us- I spent a lot of time just wandering through the East Village, and a lot of time in the West Village. 1302.6184 916 LES_int_01 1302.6457 Huh. 1302.9592 917 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1303.1175 Just wandering through. And if you think about it, the West Village at that time 1307.5091 918 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1307.5091 (pause 0.26) 1307.7643 919 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1307.7643 was very much like the East Village is, or was maybe ten years [ago.] 1311.6112 920 LES_int_01 1311.5179 [Right.] 1311.9751 921 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1311.9702 It was very seedy. 1313.4484 922 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1313.7595 There was a women's prison there, I mean there was like, [really kind] of weird- 1318.5390 923 LES_int_01 1316.6179 [Really?] 1317.2493 924 LES_int_01 1318.5390 Yeah. 1319.2370 925 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1319.2984 there was a Nathan's right on Sixth Avenue, and it [was all this] kind of weird stuff [going on.] 1323.8721 926 LES_int_01 1321.8810 [Okay.] 1322.4441 927 LES_int_01 1322.4441 (pause 0.96) 1323.4058 928 LES_int_01 1323.4058 [But also] like, bohemian [at the same time.] 1325.8998 929 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1324.8513 [Yes, very much so.] 1326.7934 930 LES_int_01 1326.4866 [Right.] 1327.0337 931 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1327.1255 Very much so. And Nathan's at that time, I brought it up not because it was a chain like a McDonald's chain like it is today, 1334.3510 932 LES_int_01 1334.3697 [Yeah.] 1334.7216 933 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1334.6122 [there] were only like, three of them. 1335.9831 934 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1336.3141 That one, the one on 1338.1993 935 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1338.1993 (pause 0.14) 1338.3425 936 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1338.3425 Forty-Second Street, 1339.9319 937 LES_int_01 1340.0018 Yeah. 1340.3795 938 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1340.3889 and the one on- in Coney Island. 1343.1720 939 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1343.1720 (pause 0.13) 1343.2979 940 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1343.2979 That was it. 1343.9905 941 LES_int_01 1344.1605 Wow. 1344.6501 942 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1344.9519 So it wasn't a- as if it was a chain, it was just a place. Like a Horn and Hardarts, you [know.] 1350.2630 943 LES_int_01 1350.1231 [Yeah.] 1350.6307 944 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1350.6820 I remember those. 1351.8865 945 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1351.8865 (pause 0.27) 1352.1601 946 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1352.1601 You know, my memory kind of- 1354.0351 947 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1354.0351 (pause 1.18) 1355.2122 948 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1355.2122 is kind of a bridge between, you know, the fifties and what's going on now. 1360.0898 949 LES_int_01 1360.0898 [Right.] 1360.7167 950 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1360.4721 [So I] have very distant memories, like I remember segregation. 1363.6836 951 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1364.0660 But I only remember the end of it. [I remember going] every summer 1369.1292 952 LES_int_01 1366.0284 [That's incredible.] 1366.9377 953 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1369.5302 we went south 1370.7472 954 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1370.7472 (pause 0.19) 1370.9378 955 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1370.9378 with my mother for like, six weeks. 1373.0128 956 LES_int_01 1373.0128 [Yeah.] 1373.5017 957 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1373.2779 [My father] stayed here and worked, [and we] went south. 1376.0430 958 LES_int_01 1374.8913 [Yeah.] 1375.2363 959 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1376.4347 And 1377.2687 960 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1377.2687 (pause 0.13) 1377.3946 961 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1377.3946 it was a totally different world. I remember going 1380.1731 962 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1380.1731 (pause 0.92) 1381.0963 963 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1381.0963 with my aunt to, 1383.2406 964 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1383.2406 (pause 0.41) 1383.6463 965 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1383.6463 um, when we were in Georgia we were- went- 1386.3855 966 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1386.3855 (pause 0.40) 1386.7838 967 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1386.7838 and I think we were in a department store or something. And my sister 1390.0705 968 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1390.0705 (pause 0.36) 1390.4342 969 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1390.4342 went to 1391.4554 970 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1391.4554 (pause 0.43) 1391.8831 971 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1391.8831 drink out of a water fountain, and my aunt grabbed her by the scruff of her neck and pulled her back. And I'm like, 1398.1815 972 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1398.1815 (pause 0.17) 1398.3545 973 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1398.3545 what's that [about?] 1399.3804 974 LES_int_01 1398.9001 [Oh my God.] 1399.8367 975 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1399.6834 [ And] it was because she was about to drink out of the whites-only water fountain. 1403.2042 976 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1403.8182 Wild. 1404.4663 977 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1404.4663 (pause 0.18) 1404.6435 978 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1404.6435 [But the thing about it is,] my son 1407.1795 979 LES_int_01 1404.6801 [That's incredible.] 1405.9892 980 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1407.7110 will have no memory of that. 1409.3704 981 LES_int_01 1409.3704 Yeah. 1409.9346 982 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1409.9346 And- and what's so c- 1411.3195 983 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1411.5256 cool, like I was reading this article today 1414.0699 984 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1414.0699 (pause 0.39) 1414.4563 985 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1414.4563 about how Obama 1416.5779 986 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1416.5779 (pause 0.34) 1416.9224 987 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1416.9224 won this election, what he was able to do in terms of working 1421.0391 988 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1421.0391 (pause 1.29) 1422.3260 989 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1422.3260 through young people to convince older people 1425.8272 990 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1425.8272 (pause 0.67) 1426.4974 991 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1426.4974 to vote for him. 1427.6860 992 LES_int_01 1427.7424 [Oh.] 1428.4605 993 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1428.0735 [But it was] something that had to be done on both sides. And I don't know if 1432.7170 994 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1432.8523 as a- a society we have an appreciation for the fact 1436.3208 995 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1436.3208 (pause 0.47) 1436.7918 996 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1436.7918 that blacks had to be convinced too. 1438.9780 997 LES_int_01 1439.2112 Right. 1439.5609 998 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1439.5609 Because 1440.2510 999 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1440.5581 there are people who are like me and 1443.0468 1000 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1443.0468 (pause 0.50) 1443.5504 1001 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1443.5504 who are older, 1444.6089 1002 LES_int_01 1444.6089 Yeah. 1445.0425 1003 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1445.0425 who- who I'm- who live and grew up with boundaries. 1448.5351 1004 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1448.8381 Whereas my son, although the boundaries are there to the s- to some extent, 1453.0801 1005 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1453.0801 (pause 0.28) 1453.3645 1006 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1453.3645 they're not there to the same extent. 1455.2943 1007 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1455.2943 (pause 0.28) 1455.5741 1008 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1455.5741 And they're not as [visible.] 1456.9542 1009 LES_int_01 1456.8051 [Yeah.] 1457.3227 1010 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1457.3983 So he's going to grow up 1459.7188 1011 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1459.7188 (pause 0.60) 1460.3156 1012 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1460.3156 saying, what do you mean black president? When d- 1463.2526 1013 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1463.2526 (pause 0.36) 1463.6157 1014 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1463.6157 I was [born, you know,] 1465.3270 1015 LES_int_01 1464.6322 [Yeah.] 1465.2757 1016 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1465.4715 I voted for him, [you know.] 1467.1309 1017 LES_int_01 1466.5475 [Yeah.] 1467.0842 1018 LES_int_01 1467.3733 D- [As a given.] 1468.3339 1019 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1467.4992 [So those-] 1468.1987 1020 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1468.3612 [Yeah, those] things are more of a given, they're still [challenges.] 1472.0030 1021 LES_int_01 1468.5531 [Right.] 1469.0473 1022 LES_int_01 1469.0473 (pause 2.61) 1471.6526 1023 LES_int_01 1471.6526 [But isn't] that [incredible?] 1473.0235 1024 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1472.8743 [It] is incredible. 1473.9980 1025 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1474.2778 And I was thinking today 1475.7314 1026 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1475.7314 (pause 0.23) 1475.9598 1027 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1475.9598 how sad is it that, 1478.2213 1028 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1478.2213 (pause 0.26) 1478.4825 1029 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1478.4825 you know, I can remember Martin Luther King and he could not see the fruits of his own labor 1483.6517 1030 LES_int_01 1483.8528 [Yeah.] 1484.4310 1031 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1484.2958 [being,] you know, translated today. And hopefully in some weird way he can. 1488.3849 1032 LES_int_01 1488.4492 Yeah. 1488.8921 1033 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1488.9015 Um, through the eyes of his children, but 1490.9578 1034 LES_int_01 1491.2516 [Right.] 1491.7179 1035 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1491.2842 [] 1491.4241 1036 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1492.2821 getting back to the story. 1493.9041 1037 LES_int_01 1494.0654 [Yeah.] 1494.6222 1038 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1494.3376 [I] also remember, wanna go on record, there was an- a red bus [] 1499.1526 1039 LES_int_01 1498.7373 [Alright.] 1499.6189 1040 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1499.3252 [on] Avenue [B. It was the Avenue] B Bus. 1501.8851 1041 LES_int_01 1500.3417 [Okay.] (laughing) 1501.2284 1042 LES_int_01 1501.8851 Oh, [yeah.] 1502.5052 1043 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1502.2581 [At that] time, the transit system- 1504.5097 1044 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1504.6682 I don't know if they were still 1506.0437 1045 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1506.0437 (pause 0.41) 1506.4541 1046 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1506.4541 independently owned, like people still owned- I [think for the most part] the system had been consolidated 1512.4493 1047 LES_int_01 1509.4557 [Oh, /okay./] 1510.2437 1048 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1512.7617 and was owned by the city. 1514.3931 1049 LES_int_01 1514.5283 [Right.] 1514.9405 1050 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1514.7381 [There was] one independent 1516.4255 1051 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1517.2321 bus that I knew of, I'm sure there were more. 1519.6376 1052 LES_int_01 1519.6469 [Yeah.] 1520.1229 1053 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1519.8334 [But the] Avenue B bus, the- uh- the number nine bus 1522.9569 1054 LES_int_01 1522.9569 Yeah. 1523.2921 1055 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1523.2921 was an independent bus. It was a red b- bus line, and it was private. 1526.8451 1056 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1527.3297 So that had, um, 1529.2294 1057 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1529.2294 (pause 0.13) 1529.3578 1058 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1529.3578 I think it was privately owned. It was red, all the other buses were green, 1533.0054 1059 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1533.0054 (pause 0.44) 1533.4459 1060 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1533.4459 [so.] 1534.0380 1061 LES_int_01 1533.4745 [Okay.] 1533.9308 1062 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1534.1453 And then the trains went by 1536.2709 1063 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1536.2709 (pause 0.19) 1536.4574 1064 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1536.4574 the l- name of their lines, like the Independent, the I-R-T, 1539.9160 1065 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1539.9160 (pause 0.45) 1540.3683 1066 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1540.3683 [the Lexington Avenue Line. So the I-R-T] was the two or the three on Seventh Avenue. 1544.7142 1067 LES_int_01 1540.4243 [Oh, yeah. Yeah.] 1542.5412 1068 LES_int_01 1544.7462 [Okay.] 1545.2904 1069 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1544.9746 [The Independent] was the 1546.5594 1070 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1547.1522 the A, the E, [the C.] 1549.0254 1071 LES_int_01 1548.4752 [Okay.] 1548.8786 1072 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1549.4451 And the Lexington Avenue Line was the Four, Five, or [Six.] 1552.7930 1073 LES_int_01 1552.6625 [Oh, okay.] 1553.4645 1074 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1553.2820 [You know,] now people are starting to call them by their n- 1555.2911 1075 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1555.4031 their colors, which is really starting to [annoy me.] 1558.1634 1076 LES_int_01 1557.1656 [/Kind of/ weird,] yeah. 1558.5486 1077 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1558.6297 You know, but change is change, [so. ] 1561.0858 1078 LES_int_01 1560.4563 [] 1562.0044 1079 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1561.7199 [] 1561.8971 1080 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1562.1815 So, you know, even as I am remembering all this stuff, it was something else before. 1567.1089 1081 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1567.1089 (pause 0.39) 1567.5006 1082 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1567.5006 You know, [I knew it] so I have to be okay with that [too.] 1570.9732 1083 LES_int_01 1567.9896 [Yeah.] 1568.6377 1084 LES_int_01 1568.6377 (pause 2.01) 1570.6521 1085 LES_int_01 1570.6521 [] 1571.5725 1086 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1571.4355 [I'm] trying to remember what else did this- the neighborhood look like. 1574.4984 1087 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1575.0899 1575.1645 1088 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1575.1645 (pause 0.13) 1575.2904 1089 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1575.2904 Old Stuyvesant Town was all- always there. I lived there, and then as I was growing up, I went to 1580.4842 1090 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1580.4842 (pause 0.28) 1580.7680 1091 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1580.7680 /RD-SCHOOL-5/ 1581.8514 1092 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1581.8514 (pause 0.34) 1582.1949 1093 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1582.1949 and then I went to /RD-SCHOOL-7/, 1584.2800 1094 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1584.2800 (pause 0.40) 1584.6755 1095 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1584.6755 which is [right on] /RD-ADDRESS-4/, 1586.8245 1096 LES_int_01 1585.1925 [/??/] 1585.9339 1097 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1586.9917 1587.0896 1098 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1587.0896 (pause 0.14) 1587.2342 1099 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1587.2342 between [/RD-ADDRESS-4/. And we] used to have to go through, 1590.3631 1100 LES_int_01 1587.6049 [Um,] 1587.9989 1101 LES_int_01 1587.9989 (pause 0.55) 1588.5538 1102 LES_int_01 1588.5538 [Mm-hm.] 1588.9253 1103 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1590.7780 um, 1591.5561 1104 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1591.5561 (pause 1.08) 1592.6379 1105 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1592.6379 1592.7684 1106 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1592.7684 (pause 0.23) 1593.0016 1107 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1593.0016 uh, Stuyvesant Town to get there and they hated us. They didn't like us, they thought, oh- 1597.8544 1108 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1597.8544 (pause 0.40) 1598.2554 1109 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1598.2554 that's my v- 1598.9921 1110 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1598.9921 (pause 0.12) 1599.1133 1111 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1599.1133 view, 1599.7322 1112 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1599.7322 (pause 0.29) 1600.0213 1113 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1600.0213 you know, my- [my view,] my memory. 1602.5906 1114 LES_int_01 1601.0099 [Really.] 1601.5976 1115 LES_int_01 1602.6046 [Mm-hm.] 1603.0149 1116 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1602.9543 [So] I don't know if that's true, 1604.6329 1117 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1604.7209 but that is what I'm putting in their heads and their mouths. 1608.0549 1118 LES_int_01 1608.3427 But you remember people, like, saying stuff to you as [you walked by, or?] 1612.0941 1119 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1610.7954 [] 1610.9446 1120 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1610.9446 (pause 0.21) 1611.1544 1121 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1611.1544 [Say- n- uh- not] so much saying, i- it's [looks.] 1614.6043 1122 LES_int_01 1614.3758 [Looks, yeah.] 1615.3410 1123 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1615.0053 [You know,] and we always thought of it as like, an exclusive 1618.3433 1124 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1618.5018 neighborhood. It's funny, cause I live there now, so I'm kind of like, okay. 1621.6714 1125 LES_int_01 1621.8205 Is that where you live now? 1622.7531 1126 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1622.7531 That's where I live [now.] 1623.8420 1127 LES_int_01 1623.5971 [Oh, that's funny.] 1624.9354 1128 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1623.9888 [So I'm like,] 1624.6086 1129 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1625.2232 [okay. But a-] 1626.3767 1130 LES_int_01 1625.6102 [] 1626.9093 1131 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1626.7386 [but,] 1627.1403 1132 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1628.0349 it- 1628.3800 1133 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1628.3800 (pause 0.22) 1628.5991 1134 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1628.5991 I always felt that they looked down on the people who lived in the projects. 1631.6667 1135 LES_int_01 1631.7715 [Mm.] 1632.4687 1136 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1631.8578 [You know, and] 1632.8510 1137 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1633.1541 at that [time-] 1634.2411 1138 LES_int_01 1633.7270 [Do you think-] 1634.1933 1139 LES_int_01 1634.3705 do you think- do you think it's true, or- or is it true today? 1636.9861 1140 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1637.4432 I think it's definitely true today. I think that- but I think overall people have problems with, um, 1642.9909 1141 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1642.9909 (pause 0.65) 1643.6424 1142 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1643.6424 with poorer neighborhoods. 1645.4097 1143 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1645.4097 (pause 0.48) 1645.8900 1144 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1645.8900 And I think that at that time, the projects themselves were going through transition. 1651.2843 1145 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1651.2843 (pause 0.40) 1651.6847 1146 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1651.6847 Heroin had hit. 1652.9182 1147 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1652.9182 (pause 0.52) 1653.4426 1148 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1653.4426 Um, [and I guess] either it was- I don't know what 1656.4868 1149 LES_int_01 1653.8896 [Right.] 1654.3186 1150 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1656.8085 changed but it became a bigger part- drugs became a bigger part of the [community.] 1661.4935 1151 LES_int_01 1660.7567 [Yeah.] 1661.5593 1152 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1662.0623 Um, so there were a lot of people roaming in- and our neighborhood became a haven for drugs. 1668.5472