Line Spkr StTime Content EnTime 1 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 0.2067 We were talking about drugs [in the neighborhood.] 2.2158 2 LES_int_01 1.2040 [We were talk- yeah. I was] wo- yeah, I was curious. I mean, people do talk about, you know 4.5519 3 LES_int_01 4.7151 that period as being, you know, 6.7002 4 LES_int_01 6.7002 (pause 0.11) 6.8121 5 LES_int_01 6.8121 heightened crime, heightened 8.5686 6 LES_int_01 8.5686 (pause 0.20) 8.7706 7 LES_int_01 8.7706 danger- you know, feeling unsafe. Was that [something you experienced?] 12.2344 8 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 11.1573 [Well,] 11.6621 9 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 11.6621 (pause 0.38) 12.0386 10 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 12.0386 [this] is like, in a later- 13.6147 11 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 13.7779 latter part of the sixties, 15.6572 12 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 15.6572 (pause 0.53) 16.1833 13 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 16.1833 and the early part of the seventies. 18.8818 14 LES_int_01 18.8818 Yeah. 19.2875 15 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 19.4927 Y- crime b- 20.2853 16 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 20.2853 (pause 1.15) 21.4324 17 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 21.4324 increased. 22.2904 18 LES_int_01 22.5646 [Okay.] 22.8332 19 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 22.6015 [It's] not something that I saw or experienced. 25.9542 20 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 26.4631 Um, I saw drugs. 28.2389 21 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 28.2389 (pause 0.52) 28.7606 22 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 28.7606 I saw people roaming the street, drugged out. I remember two things. (laughing) 33.8472 23 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 33.8472 (pause 0.47) 34.3128 24 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 34.3128 One was this guy who used to be- he was a fixture in the West Village, 38.4149 25 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 38.4149 (pause 0.32) 38.7366 26 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 38.7366 who used to skate around, and it wasn't rollerblades then it was the four wheels, 42.4390 27 LES_int_01 42.4943 Yeah. 42.9325 28 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 43.1098 with- in a clown costume, 44.7464 29 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 44.7464 (pause 0.29) 45.0355 30 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 45.0355 with a little umbrella. 46.3685 31 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 46.3685 (pause 0.13) 46.4944 32 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 46.4944 I remember him. That had to be [drugs.] 48.4382 33 LES_int_01 48.3542 [] 49.9070 34 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 48.7506 [I remember the electric] circus that was on Eighth Street, [right?] 52.7874 35 LES_int_01 52.3118 [Yeah.] 52.9646 36 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 53.1604 And I also remember- I have this vivid memory- /you'll notice that-/ 56.5830 37 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 56.5830 (pause 0.35) 56.9374 38 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 56.9374 of, um, somebody- 58.3629 39 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 58.3629 (pause 0.53) 58.8945 40 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 58.8945 this woman walking around naked. 61.1653 41 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 61.1653 (pause 0.93) 62.0932 42 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 62.0932 In panties, 63.0787 43 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 63.0787 (pause 0.39) 63.4722 44 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 63.4722 holding a birthday cake. 64.8431 45 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 64.8431 (pause 1.33) 66.1767 46 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 66.1767 And she was huge. 67.5234 47 LES_int_01 67.9392 [Wow.] 68.4935 48 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 68.0325 [I w-] I will always- how can you lose that [memory, right?] 71.7142 49 LES_int_01 70.8243 [Wow. ] 72.3211 50 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 72.2745 [] 74.5487 51 LES_int_01 73.0858 [] 73.9251 52 LES_int_01 73.9251 (pause 0.40) 74.3202 53 LES_int_01 74.3202 [So you're] g- we're guessing she was not [sober? ] 77.6821 54 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 76.3532 [No, she was not sober. And I] also remember and know who the drug addicts were 80.9970 55 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 81.1227 in- i- in the- in the 82.7128 56 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 82.7128 (pause 0.13) 82.8387 57 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 82.8387 [projects.] 83.4809 58 LES_int_01 83.2104 [Yeah, yeah.] 84.0730 59 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 83.8119 [You know,] so to that extent, yeah. [Did I s-] 86.4727 60 LES_int_01 85.9429 [Was it s-] was it something that affected your friends as you got older, into high school and things like that? Did- were there [people who got] kind of caught up into it? 92.9596 61 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 91.0748 [] 91.7089 62 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 94.4327 Yeah, but what happened was 96.1258 63 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 96.1258 (pause 0.24) 96.3625 64 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 96.3625 as I- 97.2904 65 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 97.2904 (pause 0.64) 97.9286 66 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 97.9286 as I went through school, 99.4021 67 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 99.4021 (pause 0.66) 100.0629 68 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 100.0629 I became 101.3429 69 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 101.3429 (pause 0.77) 102.1099 70 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 102.1099 s- for- for lack of any other words, segregated. 104.6606 71 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 104.6606 (pause 0.42) 105.0829 72 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 105.0829 Because I was part of that, 106.5151 73 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 106.5151 (pause 0.25) 106.7629 74 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 106.7629 um, 107.4157 75 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 107.4157 (pause 0.65) 108.0625 76 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 108.0625 that [gifted program- the talented and gifted program.] 111.1167 77 LES_int_01 108.6569 [You doing so well in school, yeah.] 111.1634 78 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 111.4804 So 112.2583 79 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 112.2583 (pause 0.89) 113.1498 80 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 113.1498 they s- I s- j- 114.1197 81 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 114.1197 (pause 0.54) 114.6605 82 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 114.6605 I- when I st- went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/, 116.7953 83 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 116.7953 (pause 0.61) 117.4017 84 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 117.4017 the 117.5829 85 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 117.5829 (pause 0.25) 117.8300 86 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 117.8300 people in my class, 119.0704 87 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 119.0704 (pause 0.53) 119.6019 88 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 119.6019 there were a few people who went to the junior high school, 122.6688 89 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 122.6688 (pause 0.35) 123.0232 90 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 123.0232 but they weren't in my class. And my class stayed to the- 125.6298 91 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 125.6298 (pause 0.25) 125.8803 92 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 125.8803 together for the two years that I was there. 127.8620 93 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 127.8620 (pause 0.35) 128.2164 94 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 128.2164 And they were from other parts of the city, like from the Upper 131.6263 95 LES_int_01 131.6263 [Yeah.] 132.0947 96 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 132.0201 [West Side.] 132.7335 97 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 132.9480 What was interesting was that they had two, 135.3447 98 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 135.3447 (pause 0.59) 135.9322 99 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 135.9322 um, 136.6830 100 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 136.6830 (pause 0.69) 137.3731 101 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 137.3731 S-P programs. 138.6821 102 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 138.6821 (pause 0.34) 139.0178 103 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 139.0178 And it's- it's funny, I wonder if they think that children don't notice this, 142.1873 104 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 142.1873 (pause 0.31) 142.5010 105 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 142.5010 but in the two programs, one was white, 145.1529 106 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 145.1529 (pause 0.49) 145.6385 107 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 145.6385 all white kids. 146.5244 108 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 146.5244 (pause 0.37) 146.8962 109 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 146.8962 And they 147.5463 110 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 147.5463 (pause 0.24) 147.7889 111 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 147.7889 they took the French classes, 149.3349 112 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 149.3349 (pause 0.17) 149.5074 113 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 149.5074 and started them on French. 150.8223 114 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 150.8223 (pause 0.47) 151.2933 115 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 151.2933 And then the other class 152.7288 116 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 152.7288 (pause 0.12) 152.8454 117 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 152.8454 every- was everybody else. 154.1544 118 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 154.1544 (pause 0.20) 154.3515 119 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 154.3515 Right. 154.7199 120 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 154.7199 (pause 0.44) 155.1628 121 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 155.1628 So 155.9263 122 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 155.9263 (pause 0.29) 156.2200 123 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 156.2200 we were- and of course I was in the everybody else, but my everybody else class wasn't all black, because this is a very diverse city. [So it] was everybody in this [class.] 165.7777 124 LES_int_01 162.6955 [Yeah.] 163.1657 125 LES_int_01 163.1657 (pause 2.42) 165.5865 126 LES_int_01 165.5865 [Yeah.] 165.8896 127 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 166.2067 Um, 166.9807 128 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 166.9807 (pause 0.67) 167.6556 129 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 167.6556 [and-] 168.4343 130 LES_int_01 168.2151 [But no] French for you guys? 169.5394 131 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 169.5580 no, we took Spanish. 170.7451 132 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 170.7451 (pause 0.63) 171.3759 133 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 171.3759 173.5348 134 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 173.5348 (pause 0.48) 174.0198 135 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 174.0198 But the- 174.4581 136 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 174.4581 (pause 0.19) 174.6493 137 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 174.6493 but the great thing about it is, like, I remember there was this guy named /RD-NAME-1/ who was Indian. 179.6653 138 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 179.6653 (pause 0.43) 180.0942 139 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 180.0942 And this in the sixties, you know, and, 182.1260 140 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 182.1260 (pause 0.33) 182.4571 141 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 182.4571 um, I don't know if you've heard of Baba Olatunji? He's a African [drummer.] 186.2153 142 LES_int_01 185.9309 [Uh.] 186.7813 143 LES_int_01 187.2592 Yes, I think so. 188.3520 144 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 188.4389 He- he's since died, but his son, 191.3100 145 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 191.3100 (pause 0.76) 192.0700 146 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 192.0700 um, he had I think 193.3803 147 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 193.3803 (pause 0.25) 193.6274 148 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 193.6274 three daughters 194.9937 149 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 194.9937 (pause 1.20) 196.1914 150 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 196.1914 and one son. 197.1752 151 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 197.1752 (pause 0.10) 197.2787 152 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 197.2787 And his son Kwame 198.5135 153 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 198.5135 (pause 0.59) 199.1004 154 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 199.1004 was in my class. [And] we were t- 201.5944 155 LES_int_01 200.1209 [Cool.] 200.5173 156 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 201.8695 I stayed in touch with him 203.3977 157 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 203.3977 (pause 0.51) 203.9119 158 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 203.9119 through high school. 205.3800 159 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 205.3800 (pause 0.41) 205.7950 160 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 205.7950 He ended up going to Harvard. 207.5803 161 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 207.5803 (pause 0.29) 207.8694 162 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 207.8694 His father, I found out later, went to- 210.1402 163 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 210.1402 (pause 0.46) 210.6035 164 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 210.6035 to Morehouse. 211.6270 165 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 211.6270 (pause 0.55) 212.1773 166 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 212.1773 And like, fast forward- and I remember going to his house, he- they had a 216.6617 167 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 216.6617 (pause 0.36) 217.0254 168 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 217.0254 fabulous apartment. 218.4149 169 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 218.4149 (pause 0.65) 219.0671 170 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 219.0671 on Riverside. 219.7712 171 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 219.7712 (pause 0.17) 219.9437 172 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 219.9437 In hindsight, 220.9882 173 LES_int_01 220.9882 [Wow.] 221.5378 174 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 221.2487 [He-] I realized that he liked me. He had a crush on me. I [didn't know that then, I was clueless. I wish I was] a little bit [smarter.] 228.4096 175 LES_int_01 224.0971 [Oh.] 225.2395 176 LES_int_01 225.2395 (pause 0.48) 225.7198 177 LES_int_01 225.7198 [] 226.9554 178 LES_int_01 226.9554 (pause 1.30) 228.2557 179 LES_int_01 228.2557 [] 229.5978 180 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 229.3888 [But he] liked me. 230.5825 181 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 230.9170 And he invited me to his house, and I remember going and it was like, this formal dining room. I didn't even know how to act or how to eat or anything. And we had these, like, 239.1451 182 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 239.1451 (pause 0.15) 239.2989 183 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 239.2989 beautiful china plates and 240.8983 184 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 240.8983 (pause 0.31) 241.2061 185 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 241.2061 there were all these people. His family, and his mother and in this beautiful African dress, [and his father was] there, and it was all very, you know, formal. I'm like, okay. 249.7139 186 LES_int_01 245.4766 [Oh.] 246.2460 187 LES_int_01 249.7186 [] 250.7678 188 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 250.5605 [And] 251.3320 189 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 251.5371 fast forward and years later I saw him, you know, off and on like, after college and we were 257.2246 190 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 257.2246 (pause 0.33) 257.5510 191 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 257.5510 working and doing our thing, 258.7062 192 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 258.7062 (pause 0.80) 259.5024 193 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 259.5024 And he, 260.3974 194 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 260.3974 (pause 0.47) 260.8697 195 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 260.8697 um, 261.7836 196 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 261.7836 (pause 0.38) 262.1613 197 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 262.1613 he died. I had heard [through- and I] couldn't figure out- 265.9506 198 LES_int_01 264.1564 [Hm.] 264.7296 199 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 266.0798 I don't remember who told me, 267.1885 200 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 267.1885 (pause 0.47) 267.6629 201 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 267.6629 but he died. He died in like, this- like, mysterious drowning [accident.] 272.3627 202 LES_int_01 272.0960 [Oh.] 272.5204 203 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 272.9860 And 273.8020 204 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 273.8020 (pause 0.12) 273.9232 205 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 273.9232 it broke my heart. 275.1002 206 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 275.1002 (pause 0.13) 275.2335 207 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 275.2335 And I d- cause I had seen him like, I- maybe a few months or a year before [whatever.] 280.2309 208 LES_int_01 280.0583 [Oh,] no. 280.8370 209 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 280.8510 And 281.4722 210 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 281.4722 (pause 0.22) 281.6891 211 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 281.6891 I felt like I didn't have a way of grieving. 283.8760 212 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 283.8760 (pause 0.66) 284.5334 213 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 284.5334 And fast forward, I was at a friend's wedding. She had a wedding, 288.7194 214 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 288.7194 (pause 0.16) 288.8780 215 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 288.8780 um, 289.6370 216 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 289.6370 (pause 0.62) 290.2535 217 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 290.2535 in 290.9996 218 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 290.9996 (pause 0.12) 291.1207 219 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 291.1207 someone's house. It was one of these home-grown weddings, and it was in someone's house. 294.9111 220 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 294.9111 (pause 0.53) 295.4427 221 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 295.4427 And 296.2307 222 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 296.2307 (pause 0.32) 296.5512 223 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 296.5512 th- this friend was a friend through friends, and we became friends. 300.0623 224 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 300.0623 (pause 0.34) 300.4069 225 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 300.4069 And her husband, it turns out to be, went to Morehouse. 303.5402 226 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 303.5402 (pause 0.86) 304.4029 227 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 304.4029 And her 306.1035 228 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 306.1035 (pause 0.49) 306.5931 229 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 306.5931 brother 307.3299 230 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 307.3299 (pause 0.11) 307.4371 231 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 307.4371 went to Morehouse. 308.5702 232 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 308.5702 (pause 0.12) 308.6868 233 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 308.6868 And her brother 309.6100 234 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 309.6100 (pause 0.14) 309.7453 235 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 309.7453 was Spike- is Spike Lee. 311.2513 236 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 311.2513 (pause 0.96) 312.2066 237 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 312.2066 And it turns [out,] 313.3257 238 LES_int_01 313.2294 [Whoa.] 313.6848 239 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 313.5856 [that] Spike 314.7746 240 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 315.3481 and Kwame 316.2349 241 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 316.2349 (pause 0.61) 316.8496 242 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 316.8496 were friends. 317.8002 243 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 317.8002 (pause 0.51) 318.3091 244 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 318.3091 And they were like, best friends. 319.8439 245 LES_int_01 319.8419 Huh. 320.2942 246 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 320.3735 And her m- 321.0449 247 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 321.0449 (pause 0.12) 321.1683 248 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 321.1683 and his- 322.1827 249 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 322.1827 (pause 0.68) 322.8634 250 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 322.8634 Kwame's mother officiated at the wedding, which was Spike's sister's [wedding.] 327.1614 251 LES_int_01 326.9049 [Oh] my [gosh.] 328.1033 252 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 327.9354 [And] 328.7234 253 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 330.3088 she- 331.0922 254 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 331.0922 (pause 0.27) 331.3626 255 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 331.3626 It was like this- if- it's like it all came [back together. It was] really weird. 334.9325 256 LES_int_01 333.4841 [Yeah.] 334.3363 257 LES_int_01 334.9325 That's [amazing.] 336.0236 258 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 335.2828 [But what I found] out was, and this is their story so- 338.3404 259 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 338.7368 but, 339.1984 260 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 339.1984 (pause 0.12) 339.3232 261 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 339.3232 um, 339.9516 262 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 339.9516 (pause 0.49) 340.4434 263 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 340.4434 because Spike has, I guess, 342.9004 264 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 342.9004 (pause 0.68) 343.5762 265 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 343.5762 there are three or four of them boys and one girl, 346.2661 266 LES_int_01 346.2801 [Okay.] 346.7137 267 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 346.6018 [and] the /RD-NAME-4/ had three or four girls, 349.1990 268 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 349.8832 and one boy, 350.6806 269 LES_int_01 350.7179 Okay. 351.1981 270 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 351.2028 they put the families t- 352.4711 271 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 352.4711 (pause 0.13) 352.6017 272 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 352.6017 together. And the fathers were both- are both [musicians.] 355.5985 273 LES_int_01 355.4261 [Okay.] 355.8597 274 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 355.8597 Spike's father is still alive, but Kwame's isn't. 357.8042 275 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 358.1725 And they had the boy- the families came together and they played often. 361.6848 276 LES_int_01 361.7151 [Yeah.] 362.1580 277 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 362.0741 [So] as I was playing with 364.4454 278 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 364.6201 Kwame, 365.2169 279 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 365.2169 (pause 0.55) 365.7671 280 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 365.7671 in junior high school, he was playing with Spike. 368.3071 281 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 368.3071 (pause 0.28) 368.5916 282 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 368.5916 Spike n- I knew in 370.6292 283 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 370.6292 (pause 0.41) 371.0349 284 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 371.0349 college, because Spike went to Morehouse. 373.2392 285 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 373.2392 (pause 0.66) 373.8967 286 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 373.8967 So it was like all of these little threads came [together,] 377.5803 287 LES_int_01 377.0015 [Amazing.] 377.7009 288 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 378.4977 you know, like twenty years [later.] 380.5307 289 LES_int_01 380.2795 [Yeah.] 381.1198 290 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 380.6846 [You know, it] was so weird. [So] weird. 382.9134 291 LES_int_01 381.9056 [Yeah.] 382.3765 292 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 383.2998 But, um, 384.3868 293 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 384.3868 (pause 0.25) 384.6381 294 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 384.6381 that was just a- a- 385.7059 295 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 385.7059 (pause 0.12) 385.8307 296 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 385.8307 a- story out 387.0848 297 LES_int_01 387.2889 [Wow, that's interesting.] 388.5816 298 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 387.3832 [in- in space.] 388.4557 299 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 388.7401 But it was, it was a s- really kind of weird. But- 391.2163 300 LES_int_01 391.2581 So from that junior high school then, where did you go [on for high school?] 394.3812 301 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 393.5043 [] 393.6209 302 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 393.6209 (pause 0.13) 393.7468 303 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 393.7468 [from junior high school] I went /RD-SCHOOL-5/. 396.6704 304 LES_int_01 396.6704 Oh you [did?] 397.3792 305 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 397.2766 [Yeah.] 398.1986 306 LES_int_01 397.9188 [What was] that like? 398.7581 307 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 399.1405 Oh, it was great. There was a- um, an annex where you went for tenth [grade] 403.7137 308 LES_int_01 403.4630 [Right, right.] 404.4060 309 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 403.9706 [that] was down on- well, I don't know the name of that street. It's down below- past [Grand.] 408.3291 310 LES_int_01 408.0686 [Yeah.] 408.9953 311 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 408.7168 [But you know] that- [that-] 409.9924 312 LES_int_01 409.4715 [Like, Madison] or [something.] 411.0346 313 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 410.5247 [Madison.] But taking us into that neighborhood, 413.3691 314 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 413.6862 that neigborhood- we didn't even talk about that neighborhood. That neighborhood was so much fun 417.5790 315 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 417.5790 (pause 0.30) 417.8775 316 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 417.8775 outside of the food, 419.0186 317 LES_int_01 419.4196 [Yeah.] 419.9246 318 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 419.5793 [like, there used] to- there's a bialy shop down there, [now.] 422.3106 319 LES_int_01 421.9702 [Yeah.] 422.5158 320 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 422.6323 Right? [That bialy] shop used to be on Fourteenth Street. 425.2243 321 LES_int_01 423.0194 [Mm-hm.] 423.3938 322 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 425.4807 Between A 426.6911 323 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 426.6911 (pause 0.54) 427.2327 324 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 427.2327 and B, where the pizzeria is. 429.2471 325 LES_int_01 429.2890 Huh. 429.6852 326 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 431.3547 You know, [like, I wish I could recreate that block. I knew there was a 434.5202 327 LES_int_01 431.7877 [Yeah.] 432.1514 328 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 434.8745 /Shraff's- Shriff's?/ Candy store. 437.6250 329 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 437.6250 (pause 0.54) 438.1612 330 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 438.1612 A toy store, there was a Woolworths, there was a bialy shop. 441.8437 331 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 441.8437 (pause 1.31) 443.1539 332 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 443.1539 I'm trying to remember what was on that street. 444.8499 333 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 444.8499 (pause 0.55) 445.4002 334 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 445.4002 But, um, 446.4540 335 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 446.4540 (pause 0.23) 446.6825 336 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 446.6825 so I went to school down there, everybody was down there. It was kind of cool because the Essex Markets were still alive and [well,] 453.2092 337 LES_int_01 453.1620 [Right.] 453.5770 338 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 453.5770 on both sides of the [street.] 455.3302 339 LES_int_01 455.0784 [Right.] 455.6333 340 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 455.6706 We used to go down there- 457.1254 341 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 457.1254 (pause 0.22) 457.3492 342 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 457.3492 not- we didn't do our shopping, we did some but I don't remember my mother going down there. I'm trying to remember where did she shop? 463.0087 343 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 463.0087 (pause 0.46) 463.4650 344 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 463.4650 My mother used to sew, 464.7770 345 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 464.7770 (pause 0.27) 465.0504 346 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 465.0504 so she [would buy-] there were 466.9383 347 LES_int_01 465.5907 [Oh.] 466.5186 348 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 467.0502 tons of fabric [stores] 468.9253 349 LES_int_01 468.2998 [Right.] 469.0692 350 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 469.5262 down there. 470.2763 351 LES_int_01 470.2763 [Yes.] 470.8545 352 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 470.4083 [She would] buy 471.6192 353 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 472.0848 fabric and make our clothes, and she [would buy yarn.] She was 476.1150 354 LES_int_01 474.5701 [Wow.] 475.3255 355 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 476.3461 a- this huge knitter, and there was 477.7916 356 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 477.7916 (pause 0.23) 478.0201 357 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 478.0201 these yarn stores. One 479.4829 358 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 479.4829 (pause 0.54) 480.0192 359 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 480.0192 right on the corner of Essex and 482.3273 360 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 482.3273 (pause 0.12) 482.4521 361 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 482.4521 between Delancey and the block south, 484.2749 362 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 484.2749 (pause 0.37) 484.6401 363 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 484.6401 across the street from Seward Park. Cause we went passed there the other day and I was like, oh, wow. 488.6365 364 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 488.6365 (pause 0.25) 488.8914 365 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 488.8914 [Bell Yarns] was there, Sunray Yarns, 491.2408 366 LES_int_01 489.0726 [Oh.] 489.6415 367 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 491.7864 and we used to go down and buy [yarns.] 493.4970 368 LES_int_01 493.3205 [Amazing.] 494.1166 369 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 493.6503 [And-] school, I mean, 495.0771 370 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 495.4362 high school was kind of interesting. I did, 497.4225 371 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 497.4225 (pause 0.51) 497.9355 372 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 497.9355 um, 498.7075 373 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 498.7075 (pause 0.73) 499.4356 374 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 499.4356 I- 499.8693 375 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 499.8693 (pause 0.24) 500.1118 376 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 500.1118 I w- wanted to be an actress, so I 502.4012 377 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 502.4012 (pause 0.19) 502.5878 378 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 502.5878 went to- 503.7589 379 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 503.7589 (pause 0.86) 504.6161 380 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 504.6161 I auditioned for this school, it was a performing arts school but it was part time. 509.9305 381 LES_int_01 509.9772 Okay. 510.3922 382 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 510.4015 So it- 510.8339 383 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 510.8339 (pause 0.13) 510.9598 384 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 510.9598 it's still there, someone just told me recently it was still there. /RD-SCHOOL-8/. 515.3522 385 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 515.3522 (pause 0.31) 515.6646 386 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 515.6646 It's in /RD-SCHOOL-5/. 516.9011 387 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 516.9011 (pause 0.44) 517.3420 388 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 517.3420 [So I] 518.0321 389 LES_int_01 517.4492 [Sounds familiar.] 518.5232 390 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 518.4238 [did] my academics in the morning at /RD-SCHOOL-3/. 522.5038 391 LES_int_01 522.5038 Okay. 523.0154 392 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 523.0294 And then I didn't really kind of mingle with 525.8831 393 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 525.8831 (pause 0.10) 525.9857 394 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 525.9857 everyone, 526.6665 395 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 526.6665 (pause 0.43) 527.0920 396 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 527.0920 but also by that time, I was younger than everyone. 530.5867 397 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 530.5867 (pause 0.33) 530.9138 398 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 530.9138 So with my birthday being in November and having 534.0506 399 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 534.0506 (pause 0.31) 534.3584 400 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 534.3584 gone through this accelerated program in junior high school, 537.5611 401 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 537.5611 (pause 0.49) 538.0507 402 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 538.0507 I graduated from school when I was sixteen. 540.3955 403 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 540.3955 (pause 0.45) 540.8478 404 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 540.8478 So 541.5659 405 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 541.5659 (pause 0.28) 541.8457 406 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 541.8457 I was kind of young and having- I think, this is m- 544.9685 407 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 544.9685 (pause 0.21) 545.1830 408 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 545.1830 my view, having been exposed to 547.5611 409 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 547.5611 (pause 1.10) 548.6649 410 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 548.6649 so much with so few boundaries, 551.0384 411 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 551.0384 (pause 0.52) 551.5559 412 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 551.5559 I didn't really get into too much trouble. 553.5610 413 LES_int_01 553.8908 Right. 554.4690 414 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 554.6228 Cause I had seen so much and I wasn't really interested, so [since nothing] was a secret what was there to get [into?] 560.2398 415 LES_int_01 557.6391 [Right.] 558.1800 416 LES_int_01 558.1800 (pause 1.88) 560.0591 417 LES_int_01 560.0591 [R- yeah, yeah.] 560.9731 418 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 560.8378 [So] I didn't really 562.2973 419 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 562.5398 get into [too much.] (laughing) 564.5409 420 LES_int_01 563.4944 [Yeah.] 564.1954 421 LES_int_01 564.1954 (pause 0.18) 564.3757 422 LES_int_01 564.3757 [Okay.] 564.9119 423 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 565.5508 I do remember when they built Haven Plaza. I'm going off on a [tangent. But I do remember] when they built Hazen Plaza [downtown.] 571.7691 424 LES_int_01 568.9680 [No, that's okay.] 569.8120 425 LES_int_01 569.8120 (pause 1.87) 571.6852 426 LES_int_01 571.6852 [Yeah.] 572.0945 427 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 572.3279 That was considered, 573.2892 428 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 573.2892 (pause 0.10) 573.3918 429 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 573.3918 you know 573.9230 430 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 573.9230 (pause 0.36) 574.2800 431 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 574.2800 middle 574.9040 432 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 574.9040 (pause 0.44) 575.3456 433 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 575.3456 class, middle income. 576.9310 434 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 576.9310 (pause 0.66) 577.5918 435 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 577.5918 Ha-ha. 578.4311 436 LES_int_01 578.7016 [] 580.0958 437 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 578.9627 [] 580.1937 438 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 580.3849 And now I think that it's looked on as if it's no better 583.6483 439 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 583.6483 (pause 0.16) 583.8115 440 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 583.8115 or different from the projects, right? 585.6183 441 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 585.6183 (pause 0.90) 586.5153 442 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 586.5153 I think so. 587.4862 443 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 587.4862 (pause 0.39) 587.8722 444 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 587.8722 [Um,] 588.5810 445 LES_int_01 587.9375 [Mm-hm.] 588.4691 446 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 589.2931 you know, it's interesting 590.5568 447 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 590.5568 (pause 0.20) 590.7573 448 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 590.7573 i- perspective. 591.8997 449 LES_int_01 591.8997 Yeah. 592.5618 450 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 592.7577 I'm trying to think what else do I remember. Do you have any other questions? 595.8672 451 LES_int_01 595.8672 Um, I'm enjoying getting sort of y- your trajectory. So you went away to college 600.2636 452 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 600.3849 [In seventy-four.] 601.6939 453 LES_int_01 600.4781 [and-] 600.6952 454 LES_int_01 601.6939 [Okay.] 602.2834 455 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 601.9643 [So a] lot of the- the unrest 604.6082 456 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 605.0185 that I saw, 606.2495 457 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 606.2495 (pause 0.70) 606.9523 458 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 606.9523 like, I was too young to get into like, the flower power- I missed [all of that.] 611.8518 459 LES_int_01 610.9738 [Right. ] 612.7672 460 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 612.5845 [I] missed all of it. I was really young, I was like eleven when they were like, goo- well I was wearing go-go [boots.] 618.5697 461 LES_int_01 618.4765 [Right.] 619.0640 462 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 618.8728 [So] I didn't have the advantage of getting into any of the st- [fun stuff that people were] doing b- at that time. 624.6981 463 LES_int_01 622.2552 [] 623.5149 464 LES_int_01 624.8820 [Right.] 625.2477 465 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 625.1478 [Um,] and by the time- at that time, and by the time I 628.8548 466 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 630.1462 by the time 631.0870 467 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 631.0870 (pause 0.38) 631.4647 468 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 631.4647 I got into to college, people were pulling back from it. 634.1179 469 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 634.1179 (pause 0.99) 635.1105 470 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 635.1105 They [had- cause] that was seventy-four. 636.9414 471 LES_int_01 635.3896 [Yeah.] 635.7860 472 LES_int_01 635.7860 (pause 1.06) 636.8491 473 LES_int_01 636.8491 [Right.] 637.3367 474 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 637.2035 [So] there was still, you know, a lot of the drugs and stuff, but not 640.5106 475 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 640.8725 the way it was [in the sixties] and early [seventies.] Yeah. 644.2711 476 LES_int_01 641.7019 [Right.] 642.2381 477 LES_int_01 642.2381 (pause 0.74) 642.9767 478 LES_int_01 642.9767 [Right, right.] 643.8095 479 LES_int_01 644.4903 And so how was it- so did you come back to the neighborhood right after [college?] 648.1587 480 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 647.8976 [No,] I didn't come back until nineteen eighty- 653.1334 481 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 654.5136 oh jee, 655.3949 482 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 655.3949 (pause 0.49) 655.8832 483 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 655.8832 eighty-five. 656.8158 484 LES_int_01 656.8438 Oh, okay. So you had a- a break there. 658.8022 485 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 658.8069 Yeah, d- [I was-] 660.0052 486 LES_int_01 659.4364 [What were you doing?] 660.2803 487 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 660.2151 [I-] from seventy-four to seventy-eight, 662.5452 488 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 663.1234 I was in college. From 664.2752 489 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 664.2752 (pause 0.31) 664.5829 490 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 664.5829 seventy-eight to eighty-one, 667.0123 491 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 667.0123 (pause 0.54) 667.5525 492 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 667.5525 I worked at City Corp 669.1402 493 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 669.1402 (pause 0.12) 669.2638 494 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 669.2638 in their credit card division, 671.0512 495 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 671.0512 (pause 0.11) 671.1656 496 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 671.1656 in Towson, Maryland. 672.9742 497 LES_int_01 673.1607 [Oh.] 673.8312 498 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 673.4825 [From eighty-one] to eighty-three, I worked for the Federal Reserve Board 677.1019 499 LES_int_01 677.2121 [Oh.] 677.7611 500 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 677.5292 [in DC,] 678.5864 501 LES_int_01 678.5864 Cool. 678.9967 502 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 679.0107 under the Reagan administration. 680.7566 503 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 680.7566 (pause 0.44) 681.1976 504 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 681.1976 Um, they were d- it's when the Fed had to- was mandated by Congress to start charging, 686.1623 505 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 686.1623 (pause 0.41) 686.5773 506 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 686.5773 uh, the banks that they support for their services that they provide. 690.6045 507 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 690.6045 (pause 0.44) 691.0484 508 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 691.0484 And then from eighty-three to eighty-four? 693.6128 509 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 693.6128 (pause 0.47) 694.0827 510 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 694.0827 Eighty-three to eighty-four, or eighty-four to eighty-five, 696.1064 511 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 696.1064 (pause 0.55) 696.6519 512 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 696.6519 I was in California, in Los Angeles. I lived out there for a year. [Hated it.] 700.7733 513 LES_int_01 699.8081 [Oh, really?] 700.6121 514 LES_int_01 700.8932 [] 701.5565 515 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 701.4714 [And] then moved [back.] 703.0459 516 LES_int_01 702.5159 [And then you moved back.] 703.4159 517 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 703.3086 [Mm-hm.] 703.9521 518 LES_int_01 703.8402 [And] did you move back in with your family? 705.7950 519 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 705.9618 No. 706.3188 520 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 706.3188 (pause 0.61) 706.9317 521 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 706.9317 I moved- no. 709.0993 522 LES_int_01 709.1733 No. [] 710.4509 523 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 709.7515 [I wasn't going] back to the projects. 711.3275 524 LES_int_01 711.5747 [Okay.] 711.9337 525 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 711.6819 [I will] say this, 712.7031 526 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 713.1181 I hated the [projects.] 714.3431 527 LES_int_01 714.2872 [You did?] 714.7815 528 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 714.5856 [I] absolutely hated the concrete, the brick, 717.1455 529 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 717.5337 and even though it was, 719.2612 530 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 719.2612 (pause 0.30) 719.5643 531 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 719.5643 at that time, a relatively safe place, 721.9704 532 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 721.9704 (pause 0.54) 722.5113 533 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 722.5113 I never l- warmed to it. I always thought it was scary. 725.3223 534 LES_int_01 725.3363 Oh. 725.9798 535 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 726.0544 You know, I remember going down like, the stairs and thinking, this is creepy. 729.3504 536 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 729.3504 (pause 0.15) 729.5043 537 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 729.5043 You know, I never- 731.0267 538 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 731.0267 (pause 0.38) 731.4097 539 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 731.4097 never liked it. 732.4313 540 LES_int_01 732.4593 I [see.] 732.9443 541 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 732.8883 [And] from our apartment 734.3618 542 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 734.4830 we could see 735.6254 543 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 735.6254 (pause 1.01) 736.6360 544 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 736.6360 downtown, the World Trade Center. It was when they were built in- from my 740.5892 545 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 740.5892 (pause 0.41) 740.9958 546 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 740.9958 bedroom. 741.4863 547 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 741.4863 (pause 0.27) 741.7559 548 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 741.7559 [And from the] living room you could see the Empire State Building. 744.5903 549 LES_int_01 741.7559 [Yeah.] 742.0770 550 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 744.9760 You know, and I just- I always- I /remem-/ 747.0930 551 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 747.0930 (pause 0.14) 747.2352 552 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 747.2352 very vivid- vivid memories of standing in my bedroom 751.3023 553 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 751.3023 (pause 0.35) 751.6520 554 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 751.6520 and looking 752.3704 555 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 752.3704 (pause 0.62) 752.9896 556 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 752.9896 out toward the south, 754.6169 557 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 754.6169 (pause 0.11) 754.7289 558 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 754.7289 and across the street at my school, 756.6099 559 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 756.6099 (pause 0.31) 756.9204 560 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 756.9204 and wondering what was over that horizon. 759.2903 561 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 759.2903 (pause 0.25) 759.5397 562 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 759.5397 And wondering what life would hold for me. 761.3209 563 LES_int_01 761.3256 [Oh.] 761.9504 564 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 761.4515 [I just] 761.8571 565 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 762.2348 absolutely- 762.9996 566 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 762.9996 (pause 0.23) 763.2327 567 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 763.2327 and it wasn't- 764.0254 568 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 764.0254 (pause 1.12) 765.1492 569 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 765.1492 it wasn't that clear, [you know. I'm articulating] it better than I did as a [child.] 769.6009 570 LES_int_01 766.4634 [Yeah.] 767.1131 571 LES_int_01 767.1131 (pause 2.21) 769.3212 572 LES_int_01 769.3212 [Right.] 769.8694 573 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 769.9553 But I just- 770.6548 574 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 770.6548 (pause 0.14) 770.7900 575 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 770.7900 I remember having- 772.0437 576 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 772.0437 (pause 0.43) 772.4773 577 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 772.4773 trying to envision my life. That's what it was. And not being able to see myself past forty, 777.8030 578 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 777.8030 (pause 0.37) 778.1734 579 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 778.1734 cause I couldn't imagine 779.4884 580 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 779.4884 (pause 0.33) 779.8148 581 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 779.8148 what it would be [like.] 780.9852 582 LES_int_01 780.8453 [Right, right.] 781.8292 583 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 781.3349 [But in some] ways, 782.7744 584 LES_int_01 782.7838 [Right.] 783.1848 585 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 782.9796 [that] was probably a blessing for me, 784.9147 586 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 785.2831 because if I had to imagine my life in the confines of the limitations that I saw, 790.3185 587 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 790.3185 (pause 0.36) 790.6774 588 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 790.6774 I would've had a very small dream. 792.7138 589 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 792.7138 (pause 0.54) 793.2501 590 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 793.2501 But 793.7303 591 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 793.7303 (pause 0.11) 793.8376 592 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 793.8376 by not allowing myself to [have] a [dream,] 796.6580 593 LES_int_01 795.3345 [Hm.] 795.6152 594 LES_int_01 795.6152 (pause 0.71) 796.3223 595 LES_int_01 796.3223 [Yeah. ] 797.5673 596 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 796.8916 [you know,] 797.5013 597 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 797.7165 not that I didn't have a dream, but not being able to formulate, [it allowed] for 801.6513 598 LES_int_01 800.8487 [Yeah.] 801.2434 599 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 801.9637 almost endless [possibilites.] 803.8039 600 LES_int_01 803.5059 [Yeah.] 804.0934 601 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 804.2006 So- and that's what happened. [That's kind of my-] 806.8259 602 LES_int_01 805.7767 [That's great.] 806.4855 603 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 807.2502 the way I moved through life, for me, 809.5996 604 LES_int_01 809.7162 [Yeah.] 810.1032 605 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 809.9820 [was,] um, 811.4739 606 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 811.7619 very much by happenstance. That I allowed things to happen to me. 815.4711 607 LES_int_01 815.5902 Okay. 816.0658 608 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 816.1590 Um, 816.7816 609 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 816.7816 (pause 0.21) 816.9937 610 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 816.9937 but I must say that I g- I- 819.0488 611 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 819.0488 (pause 0.43) 819.4777 612 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 819.4777 I carried the Lower East Side with me wherever. If you look 822.8098 613 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 822.8098 (pause 0.13) 822.9410 614 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 822.9410 wherever I lived, I always chose places 825.8273 615 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 825.8273 (pause 0.60) 826.4288 616 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 826.4288 that, 827.1423 617 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 827.1423 (pause 0.88) 828.0236 618 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 828.0236 as much as possible, would look like the Lower East Side. 831.0585 619 LES_int_01 831.2214 [Huh.] 831.5102 620 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 831.3569 [So] it'd have to have a diverse [community,] 833.2814 621 LES_int_01 833.2068 [Yeah.] 833.6498 622 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 833.7337 it had to be 834.5264 623 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 834.5264 (pause 0.13) 834.6523 624 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 834.6523 pretty much in t- in the city. 836.3263 625 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 836.3263 (pause 0.47) 836.7925 626 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 836.7925 Um, and it had to have, 838.9222 627 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 838.9222 (pause 0.60) 839.5237 628 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 839.5237 you know, a- 840.3118 629 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 840.3118 (pause 0.24) 840.5542 630 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 840.5542 I had to have the ability to walk. 842.1583 631 LES_int_01 842.4240 [Mm.] 842.9421 632 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 842.4660 [So in] Atlanta, I lived in- I can't remember the name of that- 846.3623 633 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 846.5494 of that- 847.1090 634 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 847.1090 (pause 0.11) 847.2178 635 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 847.2178 area of town now, 848.2840 636 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 848.2840 (pause 0.35) 848.6291 637 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 848.6291 but it was always- it became like, the hot spot. Um, 852.6276 638 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 852.6276 (pause 1.26) 853.8875 639 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 853.8875 what was the name of it? 855.0620 640 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 855.0620 (pause 2.04) 857.0996 641 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 857.0996 It's off of Piedmont Park. 858.8498 642 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 858.8498 (pause 0.42) 859.2666 643 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 859.2666 But that became, 860.5582 644 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 860.5582 (pause 0.28) 860.8427 645 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 860.8427 you know, where all the college kids were- were living, and it [became] the hip 864.6748 646 LES_int_01 863.5319 [Right.] 863.9121 647 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 865.2059 [place to- the Highlands.] 867.0710 648 LES_int_01 865.4225 [The hip place to live.] 866.4706 649 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 867.4441 That [became the hip] place 869.1553 650 LES_int_01 867.8590 [Okay.] 868.3859 651 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 869.4758 to [live.] 870.1566 652 LES_int_01 870.0214 [Okay.] 870.4503 653 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 870.6648 Um, when I lived in 872.6255 654 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 872.6255 (pause 0.17) 872.8004 655 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 872.8004 Baltimore, I lived right downtown on Biddle Street, 875.8820 656 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 875.8820 (pause 0.32) 876.1984 657 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 876.1984 Which was 876.7813 658 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 876.7813 (pause 0.14) 876.9258 659 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 876.9258 the hip place, it was [kind of] edgy. 878.8329 660 LES_int_01 877.9403 [Mm.] 878.2734 661 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 879.0288 It was the same thing, I mean, it was all- it was [very] consistent 882.2362 662 LES_int_01 881.0052 [Right.] 881.5263 663 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 882.6652 in terms of 883.5791 664 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 883.5791 (pause 0.18) 883.7550 665 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 883.7550 where I feel comfortable. 885.6062 666 LES_int_01 885.7181 [Yeah.] 886.1378 667 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 886.0772 [It-] when I lived in 887.6486 668 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 887.7791 DC, I lived in, um, 890.3929 669 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 890.3929 (pause 0.55) 890.9393 670 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 890.9393 Fort- 891.8486 671 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 891.8486 (pause 1.11) 892.9630 672 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 892.9630 oh God, I'm trying to think of the name of the street. 895.2758 673 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 895.2758 (pause 0.42) 895.6995 674 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 895.6995 It's right across the bridge from the national 897.9877 675 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 897.9877 (pause 0.10) 898.0902 676 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 898.0902 park. 898.7291 677 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 898.7291 (pause 0.61) 899.3399 678 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 899.3399 [I don't remember.] 900.0333 679 LES_int_01 899.3399 [Huh. Mm-hm.] 900.4124 680 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 900.2585 [But it] was the same 901.4459 681 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 901.6900 thing, [you know,] where it's very diverse community 904.6829 682 LES_int_01 902.2582 [Yeah.] 902.6863 683 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 905.5409 kind of on the edge, some people would say a little dangerous, 908.2581 684 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 908.2581 (pause 0.19) 908.4493 685 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 908.4493 always. 909.0601 686 LES_int_01 909.1021 Yeah. 909.5404 687 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 909.5497 And then when I, um, 911.9045 688 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 911.9045 (pause 0.83) 912.7298 689 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 912.7298 lived- when I moved back, 914.6083 690 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 914.6083 (pause 0.14) 914.7482 691 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 914.7482 my 915.4869 692 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 915.4869 (pause 0.27) 915.7588 693 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 915.7588 high school teacher, 916.9059 694 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 916.9059 (pause 0.88) 917.7825 695 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 917.7825 who had always been like a surrogate mother to me, 920.5383 696 LES_int_01 920.5383 Mm-hm. 920.9206 697 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 921.1864 um, had an apartment up in Harlem. And she said, you know, I'm going to do my PhD in DC, 926.5195 698 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 926.5195 (pause 0.41) 926.9298 699 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 926.9298 my son is living in my two bedroom apartment, go on and move in there. 930.2252 700 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 930.2252 (pause 0.27) 930.4910 701 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 930.4910 I mean, I later found out that she was trying to set me up with her son. 933.2991 702 LES_int_01 933.5865 [] 935.0507 703 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 933.8430 [But, it t- and we became] really good [friends-] 936.5328 704 LES_int_01 936.2903 [Didn't] work? [] 937.7822 705 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 937.0178 [didn't work out,] no. 938.2394 706 LES_int_01 938.6205 [] 939.2286 707 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 938.8443 [It didn't] work out. 939.5656 708 LES_int_01 940.0613 [That's funny.] 940.9380 709 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 940.1126 [But, um,] 941.2177 710 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 941.3623 so I lived there. And then she had another apartment, as people are wont to do, on 945.9220 711 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 945.9220 (pause 0.46) 946.3836 712 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 946.3836 Central Park West, so I lived there for a while. 948.5646 713 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 948.5646 (pause 0.41) 948.9702 714 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 948.9702 And I put my name on the waiting list, since- cause you always go [back to your neighborhood.] 952.3342 715 LES_int_01 951.3250 [To Stuyvesant.] 952.2146 716 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 952.6020 You always go- I think you always go home. 954.4567 717 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 954.4567 (pause 0.48) 954.9334 718 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 954.9334 And now with my son, I'm doing the same thing. I'm- I'm- 958.6998 719 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 958.6998 (pause 0.76) 959.4645 720 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 959.4645 I am tickled that, 961.5873 721 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 961.5873 (pause 0.19) 961.7789 722 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 961.7789 um, he has the opportunity to see what I saw, 965.3852 723 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 965.3852 (pause 0.56) 965.9493 724 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 965.9493 to have the experience that I [have.] 967.8698 725 LES_int_01 967.7718 [Yeah.] 968.2475 726 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 968.2475 It's in some ways it's unfortunate cause Stuyvesant Town is not that diverse. 971.9548 727 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 972.4341 You know, it's mostly white. 973.7010 728 LES_int_01 973.7384 [Mm-hm.] 974.1767 729 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 973.8783 [And] I think that, 975.9217 730 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 976.1025 um, 976.6946 731 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 976.6946 (pause 0.93) 977.6273 732 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 977.6273 977.7159 733 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 977.7159 (pause 0.68) 978.3967 734 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 978.3967 I think he feels it. 979.5518 735 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 979.5518 (pause 0.13) 979.6823 736 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 979.6823 I feel b- 980.2232 737 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 980.2232 (pause 0.12) 980.3398 738 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 980.3398 you know, I feel it for him. 981.9299 739 LES_int_01 982.0651 [Uh-huh.] 982.5221 740 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 982.1770 [And he feels] it. We talk about it. We've been talking about it since he was 985.2772 741 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 985.4217 four. 985.8367 742 LES_int_01 985.8367 [] 987.3895 743 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 986.3963 [/You know./] (laughing) 987.1284 744 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 987.5561 And he's sensitive to it, but 989.6676 745 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 989.6676 (pause 0.22) 989.8828 746 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 989.8828 [I think he's also lucky.] 991.2351 747 LES_int_01 989.8828 [So how will his-] 990.9629 748 LES_int_01 991.3635 how will his experience be different from yours, I mean, in terms of the neighborhood? What's- 995.8734 749 LES_int_01 995.8734 (pause 0.14) 996.0086 750 LES_int_01 996.0086 i- i- it's obviously very different now then it was when you grew up there, 999.4974 751 LES_int_01 999.4974 (pause 0.72) 1000.2139 752 LES_int_01 1000.2139 so what will he- 1001.2571 753 LES_int_01 1001.2571 (pause 0.11) 1001.3644 754 LES_int_01 1001.3644 what will his experience be like, do you think? 1003.3957 755 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1003.6772 I don't think- I- i- I don't know. 1006.0572 756 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1006.0572 (pause 0.23) 1006.2884 757 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1006.2884 Um, 1006.9516 758 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1006.9516 (pause 0.78) 1007.7292 759 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1007.7292 the first six years- cause he's six, 1009.5288 760 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1009.5288 (pause 0.35) 1009.8822 761 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1009.8822 the first six years is- is that he's 1012.1250 762 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1012.1250 (pause 0.19) 1012.3116 763 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1012.3116 kind of in a bubble, 1013.4260 764 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1013.4260 (pause 0.39) 1013.8177 765 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1013.8177 you know, in some ways. He's [not-] 1015.4228 766 LES_int_01 1015.3558 [Mm-hm.] 1015.7195 767 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1015.7521 I mean, I was kind of scrappy. 1017.3906 768 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1017.3906 (pause 0.80) 1018.1942 769 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1018.1942 You- I remember, um, 1020.3438 770 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1020.3438 (pause 2.27) 1022.6180 771 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1022.6180 I remembered 1023.6672 772 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1023.6672 (pause 0.21) 1023.8764 773 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1023.8764 as- as much as I say there d- you know d- and I'm kind of backtracking now, 1028.9816 774 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1028.9816 (pause 0.65) 1029.6350 775 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1029.6350 i- I don't know how to- to express this, 1031.4203 776 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1031.4203 (pause 0.76) 1032.1757 777 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1032.1757 in hindsight it was 1033.8925 778 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1033.8925 (pause 0.19) 1034.0815 779 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1034.0815 th- 1034.2401 780 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1034.2401 (pause 0.17) 1034.4079 781 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1034.4079 it wasn't 1035.4244 782 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1035.4244 (pause 1.04) 1036.4689 783 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1036.4689 as bad as it is today, in terms of the guns and the violence. 1039.7423 784 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1039.7423 (pause 0.66) 1040.4031 785 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1040.4031 But it was that it had an edge to [it.] 1042.9537 786 LES_int_01 1042.8745 [Right.] 1043.3432 787 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1043.3501 You know, and I felt that, 1044.8469 788 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1044.8469 (pause 0.11) 1044.9541 789 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1044.9541 and I think my sister felt that. [And we] weren't- 1047.6900 790 LES_int_01 1046.8180 [Mm-hm.] 1047.2936 791 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1048.2775 I think that we weren't- 1049.3282 792 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1049.3282 (pause 0.37) 1049.6997 793 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1049.6997 we were part of the community, but we weren't part of the community. 1052.4968 794 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1052.4968 (pause 0.47) 1052.9631 795 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1052.9631 You know, a lot of the people that I grew with, I see them now, I say hi, but 1057.4382 796 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1057.4382 (pause 0.34) 1057.7739 797 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1057.7739 we were never close, we were never friends. I was always more school- bound to [school than I was] 1063.0050 798 LES_int_01 1061.9978 [Okay.] 1062.6523 799 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1063.5167 to the [projects.] 1064.7546 800 LES_int_01 1064.5751 [Right.] 1065.0834 801 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1065.1114 But at the same time I was very much bound to the neighborhood. I loved the [neighborhood.] 1069.3819 802 LES_int_01 1069.2592 [Oh, interesting.] 1070.2544 803 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1070.1094 [So] my son, I don't- I think is more bound to the neighborhood, 1073.7125 804 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1074.3466 to the community, 1075.3248 805 LES_int_01 1075.3445 [Yeah.] 1075.6523 806 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1075.6243 [you] know. W- we interact more, 1077.9831 807 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1078.5100 um, 1079.1295 808 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1079.1295 (pause 0.10) 1079.2321 809 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1079.2321 and not that I didn't, but I think that it's different. 1082.2723 810 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1082.2723 (pause 0.38) 1082.6546 811 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1082.6546 I'm trying to figure out how. 1084.2387 812 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1084.2387 (pause 0.63) 1084.8682 813 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1084.8682 I think that 1085.8986 814 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1085.8986 (pause 0.35) 1086.2485 815 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1086.2485 what he's seeing is a more affluent 1088.5429 816 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1088.5429 (pause 0.54) 1089.0822 817 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1089.0822 [neighborhood outside] of Stuyvesant [Town.] 1091.9093 818 LES_int_01 1089.6837 [Yeah.] 1090.3193 819 LES_int_01 1090.3193 (pause 1.47) 1091.7909 820 LES_int_01 1091.7909 [Yeah.] 1092.2437 821 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1092.3969 You know, there are million dollar [co-ops down there.] 1095.3644 822 LES_int_01 1094.5791 [The gentrification- the gentrification] that's [w-] 1096.3640 823 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1096.2991 [Very much so.] 1097.5378 824 LES_int_01 1096.5232 [what is happening.] 1097.1717 825 LES_int_01 1097.1717 (pause 0.19) 1097.3633 826 LES_int_01 1097.3633 [Yeah.] 1097.8559 827 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1098.0617 You know, um, 1099.1388 828 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1099.1388 (pause 0.38) 1099.5199 829 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1099.5199 it is- it is becoming less diverse, 1102.0005 830 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1102.0005 (pause 0.41) 1102.4062 831 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1102.4062 but that- 1103.1663 832 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1103.1663 (pause 1.16) 1104.3227 833 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1104.3227 and it had become less diverse, because, 1106.8540 834 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1106.8540 (pause 0.39) 1107.2457 835 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1107.2457 um, 1107.9016 836 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1107.9016 (pause 0.28) 1108.1829 837 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1108.1829 the Jews, the Italians, the Poles, moved out of the [projects.] 1111.7121 838 LES_int_01 1111.5489 [Right.] 1112.0012 839 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1112.0338 You know, and it became mostly black and [Hispanic,] 1114.6531 840 LES_int_01 1114.5365 [Yeah.] 1114.9487 841 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1114.9487 right. 1115.3942 842 LES_int_01 1115.3942 Yeah. 1115.7395 843 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1115.7582 The P- uh, the Poles moved, and the Eastern Europeans 1118.5553 844 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1118.5553 (pause 0.25) 1118.8024 845 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1118.8024 moved out of the Lower East Side. There are still 1121.3197 846 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1121.3197 (pause 0.22) 1121.5436 847 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1121.5436 a [group.] 1122.3176 848 LES_int_01 1121.9586 [A little] pocket. [Yeah.] 1123.3024 849 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1122.9145 [ But] not, 1123.9158 850 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1124.1168 you know, 1124.7612 851 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1124.7612 (pause 0.10) 1124.8582 852 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1124.8582 they've either moved down to and are still on Grand Street- but even that's changing. 1129.7710 853 LES_int_01 1129.9553 [Yeah.] 1130.3539 854 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1130.0415 [A lot of] people are dying off, their children are not holding on to those apartments, 1134.1122 855 LES_int_01 1134.1355 Right. 1134.5607 856 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1134.5831 um, or they're moving. A lot [of people] move to Florida. 1137.2584 857 LES_int_01 1136.0740 [Right.] 1136.4136 858 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1137.5568 You know, a lot of people got their Archie Bunker [and are k- in Queens.] 1141.1086 859 LES_int_01 1139.8649 [Right, right. ] 1141.1786 860 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1141.6169 Um, so 1142.8945 861 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1142.8945 (pause 0.64) 1143.5302 862 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1143.5302 I think that- so it became, 1145.7435 863 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1145.7435 (pause 0.16) 1145.9067 864 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1145.9067 especially on the northern part of the Lower East Side 1148.4188 865 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1148.4188 (pause 0.13) 1148.5493 866 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1148.5493 black and [Hispanic] 1149.9156 867 LES_int_01 1149.8689 [Yeah.] 1150.2071 868 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1150.2886 and lots of drugs. 1151.4293 869 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1151.4293 (pause 0.26) 1151.6890 870 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1151.6890 So it became very, um, 1154.3120 871 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1154.3120 (pause 0.64) 1154.9508 872 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1154.9508 um, 1155.8419 873 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1155.8419 (pause 1.03) 1156.8707 874 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1156.8707 i- it became 1158.3675 875 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1158.3675 (pause 0.45) 1158.8207 876 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1158.8207 less diverse. 1159.8975 877 LES_int_01 1160.2326 [Okay.] 1160.5963 878 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1160.3679 [It was] very diverse when I was growing, it became less [diverse,] 1162.7120 879 LES_int_01 1162.6607 [Right.] 1163.0729 880 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1163.1969 and then now it's- the- the group is changing. 1166.1532 881 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1166.1532 (pause 0.30) 1166.4563 882 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1166.4563 Right? 1166.9273 883 LES_int_01 1166.9446 Mm-hm. 1167.3083 884 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1167.3223 So it's not, 1168.5673 885 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1168.5673 (pause 0.32) 1168.8910 886 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1168.8910 in this case, 1169.9155 887 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1169.9155 (pause 0.15) 1170.0688 888 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1170.0688 you know, it's- i- 1171.0060 889 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1171.0060 (pause 0.29) 1171.2977 890 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1171.2977 people are being displaced, yeah. 1172.9638 891 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1172.9638 (pause 0.56) 1173.5225 892 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1173.5225 Um, 1174.3657 893 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1174.3657 (pause 1.63) 1175.9981 894 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1175.9981 the neighorhood is- is changing. I- 1178.1383 895 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1178.1383 (pause 0.32) 1178.4601 896 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1178.4601 [in some ways it's k-] 1179.3174 897 LES_int_01 1178.4741 [What was your] opinion on that? Like, uh- uh, gentrification and, 1182.0306 898 LES_int_01 1182.2404 you know, the fact that some folks do get displaced as a result of that? 1185.3969 899 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1186.4374 I think that 1187.8277 900 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1187.8277 (pause 0.50) 1188.3269 901 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1188.3269 it's a bigger question- 1189.0482 902 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1189.0482 (pause 0.12) 1189.1728 903 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1189.1728 it's- it's more- that's a big question. 1191.9100 904 LES_int_01 1191.9566 Yeah. 1192.3354 905 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1192.8192 And it's interesting because in this, where we're sitting now, 1196.4830 906 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1196.4830 (pause 0.42) 1196.9027 907 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1196.9027 um, the people in this side is- 1199.1915 908 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1199.1915 (pause 0.15) 1199.3407 909 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1199.3407 they're apart of community development. We deal with a lot of community [groups.] 1203.0602 910 LES_int_01 1202.9538 [Mm-hm.] 1203.4226 911 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1203.4854 And we have these discussions all the time. 1205.5311 912 LES_int_01 1205.5300 /?/ 1205.9842 913 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1206.0627 It's a very difficult question because 1208.7112 914 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1208.7112 (pause 0.41) 1209.1215 915 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1209.1215 on the one side, there's an absolute 1211.3724 916 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1211.3724 (pause 0.11) 1211.4797 917 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1211.4797 need for affordable housing. 1213.8298 918 LES_int_01 1213.9370 Right. 1214.3287 919 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1214.3753 Um, 1215.1477 920 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1215.1477 (pause 0.62) 1215.7726 921 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1215.7726 people deserve- 1216.7988 922 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1216.7988 (pause 0.41) 1217.2138 923 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1217.2138 I mean, this- 1217.7500 924 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1217.7500 (pause 0.41) 1218.1593 925 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1218.1593 for me, 1218.9111 926 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1218.9111 (pause 0.21) 1219.1209 927 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1219.1209 personally, 1219.9136 928 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1219.9136 (pause 1.11) 1221.0187 929 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1221.0187 I would- I- I- 1222.5049 930 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1222.5049 (pause 0.41) 1222.9199 931 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1222.9199 I saw this coming a long time ago and I was disheartened 1226.3797 932 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1226.3797 (pause 0.37) 1226.7528 933 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1226.7528 when- when, um, chains 1229.0690 934 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1229.0690 (pause 0.81) 1229.8756 935 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1229.8756 started coming into the city. 1231.4890 936 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1231.4890 (pause 0.13) 1231.6204 937 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1231.6204 You know, Gaps and to me this is all part of that movement. 1235.2367 938 LES_int_01 1235.2367 [Okay.] 1235.6967 939 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1235.5731 [And] New York, 1236.6962 940 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1236.8361 it's losing, or has lost, its uniqueness. 1239.8144 941 LES_int_01 1240.0895 [Mm-hm.] 1240.4205 942 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1240.2900 [In] terms of having individual stores and- and real communities. 1243.7732 943 LES_int_01 1244.1440 Right. 1244.5634 944 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1245.5205 At the same time, is it better to have better to have drug-infested neighborhoods? 1249.4886 945 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1249.4886 (pause 0.76) 1250.2487 946 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1250.2487 It's like there's no middle [ground.] 1252.1032 947 LES_int_01 1251.8281 [Yeah.] 1252.4389 948 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1252.5322 And [I don't- how] do you find that. 1254.7611 949 LES_int_01 1252.8772 [How do you find that?] 1253.7683 950 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1254.9243 That's the 1255.7030 951 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1255.7030 (pause 0.10) 1255.8056 952 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1255.8056 the [question.] So 1257.2441 953 LES_int_01 1256.0141 [Right] 1256.5736 954 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1257.7534 yeah. D- 1258.3689 955 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1258.3689 (pause 0.11) 1258.4808 956 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1258.4808 it's sad 1259.4693 957 LES_int_01 1259.8330 [Yeah.] 1260.3786 958 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1260.0895 [and] I think that we need to find middle ground. 1263.3850 959 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1263.5389 I don't know how you do that. 1264.7279 960 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1264.7279 (pause 0.15) 1264.8818 961 LES_se0_ag4_f_02 1264.8818 I really don't know how you answer that [question.] 1266.9241 962 LES_int_01 1266.8309 [Yeah.] 1267.2866 963 LES_int_01 1267.4370 I have no- I don't either . 1269.3194