Line Spkr StTime Content EnTime 1 LES_int_01 0.8112 Okay. 0.9736 2 LES_int_01 0.9736 (pause 0.30) 1.2722 3 LES_int_01 1.2722 So, I mean do you- If you don't mind, 3.1380 4 LES_int_01 3.1380 (pause 0.11) 3.2434 5 LES_int_01 3.2434 just telling me a little bit about yourself, li- and start with when and where you were born. 7.4378 6 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 7.6046 Okay. I was born on May the fifth, nineteen twenty-nine. 10.2607 7 LES_int_01 10.2607 Mm-hm. 10.6997 8 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 10.6997 At the Jewish Hospital in Brooklyn, Park Ave- uh, 12.9931 9 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 13.0809 Park Place and Franklin Avenue. 14.4237 10 LES_int_01 14.5686 Okay. 14.9319 11 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 15.3325 Um. 15.7584 12 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 15.7584 (pause 1.04) 16.7945 13 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 16.7945 I- 17.0535 14 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 17.0535 (pause 0.13) 17.1808 15 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 17.1808 I spent 17.7735 16 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 17.7735 (pause 0.77) 18.5418 17 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 18.5418 most of my life 19.5413 18 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 19.5413 (pause 0.19) 19.7301 19 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 19.7301 the early life, 20.4413 20 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 20.4413 (pause 0.24) 20.6855 21 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 20.6855 first sixteen years of it anyway, 22.0350 22 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 22.0350 (pause 0.47) 22.5003 23 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 22.5003 in Brooklyn. 23.1924 24 LES_int_01 23.3680 Okay. 23.6446 25 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 24.0002 Um. 24.2812 26 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 24.2812 (pause 0.15) 24.4274 27 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 24.4274 I went to public school forty-four, /RD-SCHOOL-3/ High School, 27.0236 28 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 27.0236 (pause 0.61) 27.6338 29 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 27.6338 and then I- 28.4636 30 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 28.4636 (pause 0.23) 28.6963 31 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 28.6963 you know, I went away to college. 30.0660 32 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 30.0660 (pause 0.76) 30.8299 33 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 30.8299 Um. 31.1285 34 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 31.1285 (pause 0.26) 31.3919 35 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 31.3919 After grad school, I went into the Air Force, and 33.9894 36 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 33.9894 (pause 1.43) 35.4207 37 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 35.4207 I- 35.6007 38 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 35.6007 (pause 0.12) 35.7236 39 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 35.7236 you know, I had a ROTC commission, so I had to 37.7240 40 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 37.7240 (pause 0.36) 38.0884 41 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 38.0884 pay back that couple of years. 39.4406 42 LES_int_01 39.8046 Yeah. 40.0788 43 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 40.1738 And while I was in, and just before I 42.4524 44 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 42.4524 (pause 0.10) 42.5533 45 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 42.5533 you know, got 42.9748 46 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 42.9748 (pause 0.14) 43.1109 47 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 43.1109 um, 43.4007 48 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 43.4007 (pause 2.18) 45.5855 49 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 45.5855 this is 45.8226 50 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 45.8226 (pause 0.22) 46.0465 51 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 46.0465 just before I came out of the service, um. 48.0748 52 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 48.0748 (pause 0.53) 48.6060 53 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 48.6060 Um. 49.0582 54 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 49.0582 (pause 1.14) 50.1982 55 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 50.1982 I gave my mother enough money to buy an apartment here on the Lower East Side, and that was in Nineteen, 54.4963 56 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 54.4963 (pause 0.66) 55.1592 57 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 55.1592 um, 55.5675 58 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 55.5675 (pause 0.97) 56.5406 59 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 56.5406 fifty-six. 57.3616 60 LES_int_01 57.8841 Okay. 58.1606 61 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 58.2880 And, so she bought this co-op. 59.4821 62 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 59.4821 (pause 1.14) 60.6192 63 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 60.6192 The incredible thing about that, and I think that relates very much to this whole thing about Lower East Side issue. 65.5743 64 LES_int_01 65.7236 Yeah. 65.9738 65 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 66.4172 Um. 66.8651 66 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 66.8651 (pause 0.19) 67.0538 67 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 67.0538 The Co-op, I- we paid twenty seven hundred dollars for it. 69.5372 68 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 69.5372 (pause 0.67) 70.2089 69 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 70.2089 It is now worth four hundred and fifty thousand. 72.6060 70 LES_int_01 73.2909 Where is it? 73.7328 71 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 74.0050 You know. So, what that means 75.4275 72 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 75.4275 (pause 0.11) 75.5416 73 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 75.5416 quite specifically is that- 76.8543 74 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 76.8543 (pause 0.37) 77.2275 75 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 77.2275 that 77.3592 76 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 77.3592 (pause 0.40) 77.7631 77 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 77.7631 poor people are being marginalized right out of their neighborhood. 80.3255 78 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 80.3255 (pause 0.11) 80.4396 79 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 80.4396 pretty quickly. 80.9489 80 LES_int_01 81.0982 [Yeah.] 81.4714 81 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 81.2738 [Okay.] 81.5021 82 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 82.0421 But anyway, that 82.5602 83 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 82.5602 (pause 0.30) 82.8631 84 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 82.8631 you know, the- after the - I 84.0836 85 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 84.0836 (pause 0.18) 84.2680 86 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 84.2680 I didn't live in it 85.0451 87 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 85.0451 (pause 0.20) 85.2470 88 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 85.2470 for a long time, because after 87.0455 89 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 87.0455 (pause 0.18) 87.2211 90 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 87.2211 the Air Force, 87.9455 91 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 87.9455 (pause 0.59) 88.5382 92 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 88.5382 you know I got married and I lived in- 90.1802 93 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 90.1802 (pause 0.75) 90.9309 94 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 90.9309 in Harlem for a while, 92.2114 95 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 92.2114 (pause 0.61) 92.8172 96 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 92.8172 then I moved back to Washington 94.4855 97 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 94.4855 (pause 0.49) 94.9728 98 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 94.9728 uh, for several years. 96.2636 99 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 96.2636 (pause 0.69) 96.9573 100 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 96.9573 And [then,] 97.4885 101 LES_int_01 97.4051 [Washington,] 98.1104 102 LES_int_01 98.2465 [uh,] 98.4309 103 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 98.3475 [] Washington [DC] 99.2562 104 LES_int_01 99.0675 [DC.] 99.4889 105 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 99.4889 Yeah, I went to /RD-SCHOOL-7/ in [Washington DC. I hadn't] 101.7104 106 LES_int_01 100.7577 [Ah. Mm-hm.] 101.4382 107 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 101.9519 I hadn't mentioned that. 102.8080 108 LES_int_01 102.9880 Yeah. 103.1592 109 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 103.4314 Both for graduate and undergraduate [school.] 105.1333 110 LES_int_01 104.9094 [Okay] /?/. 105.7125 111 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 105.9894 And uh, I moved back to Washington DC, then, then eventually 109.0231 112 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 109.0231 (pause 0.09) 109.1109 113 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 109.1109 moved back to New York. 110.4265 114 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 110.4265 (pause 0.63) 111.0543 115 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 111.0543 And um. 111.7787 116 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 111.7787 (pause 1.60) 113.3811 117 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 113.3811 I- I had a major in psychology, 115.2865 118 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 115.2865 (pause 0.12) 115.4095 119 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 115.4095 and I couldn't. 116.2333 120 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 116.2333 (pause 0.93) 117.1597 121 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 117.1597 My first job was in /RD-WORK-8/, which is a mental institution in Washington DC. 121.2470 122 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 121.2470 (pause 0.50) 121.7504 123 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 121.7504 And I couldn't stand 123.3397 124 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 123.3397 (pause 0.40) 123.7436 125 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 123.7436 uh, 124.0070 126 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 124.0070 (pause 0.10) 124.1080 127 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 124.1080 being locked in to go to work. 125.8333 128 LES_int_01 126.5138 Mm. 126.9002 129 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 126.9968 A- and over- I was really overcome by that whole process. 129.9280 130 LES_int_01 130.2616 Yeah. 130.5558 131 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 130.6085 And and it- i- i- interestingly, what it did to me was i- it um, 134.1806 132 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 134.1806 (pause 1.80) 135.9762 133 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 135.9762 Somehow, transmorphed into- 137.9607 134 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 137.9607 (pause 0.18) 138.1451 135 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 138.1451 into, um, 139.0538 136 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 139.0538 (pause 1.05) 140.1016 137 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 140.1016 a feeling that I really 141.4450 138 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 141.4450 (pause 0.14) 141.5855 139 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 141.5855 couldn't help those people. 142.9948 140 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 142.9948 (pause 0.79) 143.7894 141 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 143.7894 Because 144.4260 142 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 144.4260 (pause 0.19) 144.6192 143 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 144.6192 you know, they were 145.1724 144 LES_int_01 145.4314 [Yeah.] 145.8953 145 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 145.6713 [Institutionalized] 146.7118 146 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 147.0323 i- i- in a locked in 148.2528 147 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 148.2528 (pause 0.16) 148.4109 148 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 148.4109 sort of basis, with mental illness 150.4436 149 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 150.4436 (pause 0.34) 150.7816 150 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 150.7816 which meant, they were really sick. 151.7460 151 LES_int_01 151.9260 That's right. 152.3694 152 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 152.3738 And- and I just felt I 153.5855 153 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 153.5855 (pause 0.25) 153.8314 154 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 153.8314 you know, 154.0992 155 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 154.0992 (pause 0.15) 154.2528 156 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 154.2528 me, 154.5909 157 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 154.5909 (pause 0.20) 154.7928 158 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 154.7928 I- I'm not a 155.3109 159 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 155.3109 (pause 0.46) 155.7719 160 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 155.7719 PhD or an MD, I'm just a guy that took a masters in 158.6284 161 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 158.6284 (pause 0.29) 158.9226 162 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 158.9226 tests and measurements. 159.9982 163 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 159.9982 (pause 0.57) 160.5689 164 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 160.5689 a- and so, that, you know, I was doing that sort of routinized thing you know a- 163.6318 165 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 163.6318 (pause 0.13) 163.7635 166 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 163.7635 works- 164.2114 167 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 164.2114 (pause 0.19) 164.4020 168 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 164.4020 works above you, MMPS, all that kind of [stuff.] 167.3241 169 LES_int_01 167.1924 [Yeah.] 167.4953 170 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 167.8377 And as I said, I can't really help people like this, and it's beginning to depress me so, 171.8884 171 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 171.8884 (pause 0.56) 172.4504 172 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 172.4504 I took 173.0036 173 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 173.0036 (pause 0.63) 173.6314 174 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 173.6314 the training 174.4743 175 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 174.4743 (pause 0.63) 175.1065 176 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 175.1065 that I received 175.9743 177 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 175.9743 (pause 0.60) 176.5757 178 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 176.5757 and 176.8962 179 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 176.8962 (pause 0.93) 177.8226 180 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 177.8226 turned it into 178.6348 181 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 178.6348 (pause 0.26) 178.8982 182 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 178.8982 a marketing skill. 180.2241 183 LES_int_01 181.0802 Hm. 181.2382 184 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 181.2382 Mkay. 181.6143 185 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 182.1938 I became a marketing researcher. 183.8928 186 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 183.8928 (pause 0.26) 184.1563 187 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 184.1563 I did 184.5119 188 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 184.5119 (pause 0.24) 184.7533 189 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 184.7533 really very good work here in New York City, and that 186.9353 190 LES_int_01 187.0758 Hm. 187.3963 191 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 187.4885 lot of 187.8206 192 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 187.8206 (pause 0.72) 188.5450 193 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 188.5450 And then I moved from that 189.8797 194 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 189.8797 (pause 0.45) 190.3319 195 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 190.3319 into 190.8850 196 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 190.8850 (pause 0.09) 190.9772 197 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 190.9772 the advertising agency, was the first Black to be 193.8996 198 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 193.8996 (pause 0.36) 194.2596 199 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 194.2596 um, 194.6504 200 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 194.6504 (pause 0.08) 194.7338 201 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 194.7338 an account executive on an important account at a major advertising agency in New York City. 199.2207 202 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 199.2207 (pause 0.54) 199.7592 203 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 199.7592 Um. 200.2070 204 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 200.2070 (pause 0.46) 200.6679 205 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 200.6679 And uh, 201.3440 206 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 201.3440 (pause 0.97) 202.3143 207 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 202.3143 you know, formed an adg- 203.2055 208 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 203.2055 (pause 0.11) 203.3109 209 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 203.3109 a organization called /RD-WORK-9/ that was committed 206.9164 210 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 206.9164 (pause 0.47) 207.3905 211 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 207.3905 in the um 208.1720 212 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 208.1720 (pause 0.20) 208.3740 213 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 208.3740 in the sixties, the mid-sixties 210.2120 214 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 210.2120 (pause 0.42) 210.6291 215 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 210.6291 to try to increase the 212.0339 216 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 212.0339 (pause 0.38) 212.4115 217 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 212.4115 presence of 212.9779 218 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 212.9779 (pause 0.39) 213.3642 219 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 213.3642 blacks 213.8384 220 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 213.8384 (pause 0.14) 213.9745 221 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 213.9745 in the 214.2247 222 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 214.2247 (pause 0.16) 214.3828 223 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 214.3828 advertising [business.] 215.4568 224 LES_int_01 215.0398 [Mm-hm.] 215.3998 225 LES_int_01 215.5447 Mm-hm. 215.8564 226 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 216.3349 And 216.6115 227 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 216.6115 (pause 1.48) 218.0866 228 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 218.0866 eh- I- I must admit, I- I was b- 219.9437 229 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 219.9437 (pause 0.27) 220.2115 230 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 220.2115 I don't 220.4223 231 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 220.4223 (pause 0.09) 220.5101 232 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 220.5101 for some ex- inexplicable reason, I was 222.7224 233 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 222.7224 (pause 0.26) 222.9858 234 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 222.9858 pretty successful 223.7760 235 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 223.7760 (pause 0.47) 224.2458 236 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 224.2458 as a marketing executive. 225.4751 237 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 225.4751 (pause 0.44) 225.9185 238 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 225.9185 And, and then I aggressively recruited by the /RD-WORK-6/ 229.4653 239 LES_int_01 229.9330 Mm-hm. 230.1964 240 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 230.4159 to um, 231.0569 241 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 231.0569 (pause 0.26) 231.3159 242 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 231.3159 I was recruited as 232.1984 243 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 232.1984 (pause 1.57) 233.7686 244 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 233.7686 manager of marketing services and 235.6081 245 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 235.6081 (pause 0.17) 235.7749 246 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 235.7749 you know, just kind of moved through that. 237.3247 247 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 237.3247 (pause 0.64) 237.9657 248 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 237.9657 Um. 238.3828 249 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 238.3828 (pause 1.09) 239.4744 250 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 239.4744 Became 240.2208 251 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 240.2208 (pause 0.86) 241.0769 252 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 241.0769 the very first black person to ever publish 243.5442 253 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 243.5442 (pause 0.81) 244.3568 254 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 244.3568 a- 244.5368 255 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 244.5368 (pause 0.36) 244.9012 256 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 244.9012 a- 245.0943 257 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 245.0943 (pause 0.25) 245.3490 258 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 245.3490 world wide 246.0207 259 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 246.0207 (pause 0.38) 246.4026 260 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 246.4026 magazine 247.1270 261 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 247.1270 (pause 0.18) 247.3027 262 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 247.3027 that was not edited es- 248.5743 263 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 248.5743 (pause 0.11) 248.6841 264 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 248.6841 re- especially for African Americans, [I published] 251.2831 265 LES_int_01 250.7433 [Mm.] 251.0550 266 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 251.6080 Stereo Review, Popular Electronics, and four or five other 254.2889 267 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 254.2889 (pause 0.61) 254.9037 268 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 254.9037 um, 255.2023 269 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 255.2023 (pause 0.15) 255.3516 270 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 255.3516 annuals that were related to that. I had offices in 258.0077 271 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 258.0077 (pause 0.34) 258.3501 272 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 258.3501 four offices in two countries, 259.8121 273 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 259.8121 (pause 0.40) 260.2116 274 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 260.2116 um 260.5014 275 LES_int_01 260.9696 Wow. 261.2462 276 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 261.3603 I- I had a really spectacular career doing that. 263.9155 277 LES_int_01 264.2931 Yeah. 264.5126 278 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 264.5126 And. 264.8594 279 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 264.9911 I did that for about thirteen years, and then moved from that into um, 268.4886 280 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 268.4886 (pause 0.81) 269.3008 281 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 269.3008 the 269.4940 282 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 269.4940 (pause 0.34) 269.8321 283 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 269.8321 Vice President of marketing for the corporation. I was only the third 272.7830 284 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 272.7830 (pause 0.14) 272.9191 285 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 272.9191 Vice President of Marketing. They've only had four throughout 274.8640 286 LES_int_01 275.2679 Mm-hm. 275.5350 287 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 275.4216 i- i- in the- in the fifty year history for the company. 277.5757 288 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 278.4274 And um, 279.0596 289 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 279.0596 (pause 0.17) 279.2308 290 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 279.2308 then I 279.6874 291 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 279.6874 (pause 0.52) 280.2055 292 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 280.2055 when I got tired of that, I became Vice President in charge of starts and 283.3211 293 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 283.3211 (pause 0.18) 283.4967 294 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 283.4967 acquisitions and mergers and things like that, so I 285.7752 295 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 285.7752 (pause 0.72) 286.4952 296 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 286.4952 and then 286.9650 297 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 286.9650 (pause 0.21) 287.1713 298 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 287.1713 somehow, th- I felt 288.1548 299 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 288.1548 (pause 1.29) 289.4440 300 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 289.4440 really wasn't what I wanted to do, 291.0377 301 LES_int_01 291.1957 Mm. 291.5030 302 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 291.5030 you know, to create all this wealth 293.0616 303 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 293.7201 for- for one- a single family or 295.4923 304 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 295.4923 (pause 0.14) 295.6328 305 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 295.6328 family and other people. 296.9806 306 LES_int_01 297.0728 Yeah. 297.3713 307 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 297.9289 And and s- it was- it was a funny kind of thing, but I 300.7475 308 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 300.7475 (pause 0.56) 301.3079 309 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 301.3079 s- thought I had enough juice 303.2616 310 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 303.2616 (pause 0.53) 303.7928 311 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 303.7928 to 304.1352 312 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 304.1352 (pause 0.59) 304.7235 313 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 304.7235 start my own consulting firm. 306.3084 314 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 306.3084 (pause 0.89) 307.1953 315 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 307.1953 And 307.5098 316 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 307.5098 (pause 0.13) 307.6415 317 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 307.6415 the whole 308.0279 318 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 308.0279 (pause 0.12) 308.1508 319 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 308.1508 thrust of it was, I was gonna provide these high level marketing services 311.5972 320 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 311.5972 (pause 0.36) 311.9528 321 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 311.9528 to- 312.2206 322 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 312.2206 (pause 0.37) 312.5938 323 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 312.5938 to minority persons who were trying to 314.7699 324 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 314.7699 (pause 0.37) 315.1395 325 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 315.1395 get business, or couldn't access that [otherwise.] 317.3391 326 LES_int_01 317.2205 [Right.] 317.4716 327 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 317.5893 I lost a fortune. 318.7264 328 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 318.7264 (pause 0.22) 318.9415 329 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 318.9415 [ You- you know because I- I did a lot of work. (laughing)] 323.1926 330 LES_int_01 318.9415 [] 323.0581 331 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 323.5059 [And, um.] 324.1820 332 LES_int_01 323.7781 [] 324.3357 333 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 324.7176 You know, people didn't have money or they couldn't pay, whatever the [situation was.] 328.5911 334 LES_int_01 327.8755 [Yeah.] 328.3979 335 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 329.1574 Um. 329.4692 336 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 329.4692 (pause 0.61) 330.0794 337 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 330.0794 It was good though. You know, it kept me active. 332.1940 338 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 332.1940 (pause 0.28) 332.4750 339 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 332.4750 Kept my mind active. 333.3530 340 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 333.3530 (pause 0.45) 333.8008 341 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 333.8008 Um. 334.2004 342 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 334.2004 (pause 0.54) 334.7360 343 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 334.7360 And then, 335.2452 344 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 335.2452 (pause 2.07) 337.3159 345 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 337.3159 I found this church. 338.4179 346 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 338.4179 (pause 0.65) 339.0677 347 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 339.0677 Found this church. It was 340.0573 348 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 340.0573 (pause 0.21) 340.2706 349 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 340.2706 right after my mother died in nineteen, 342.0004 350 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 342.0004 (pause 0.13) 342.1321 351 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 342.1321 I guess, 342.9863 352 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 342.9863 (pause 0.97) 343.9610 353 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 343.9610 ninety-three, 344.9312 354 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 344.9312 (pause 0.12) 345.0541 355 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 345.0541 thereabouts, and 345.8927 356 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 345.8927 (pause 0.30) 346.1912 357 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 346.1912 I joined this church, 347.2581 358 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 347.2581 (pause 0.69) 347.9473 359 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 347.9473 and 348.3161 360 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 348.3161 (pause 1.51) 349.8247 361 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 349.8247 all of a sudden, I was reminded of a life long ambition that I'd had. I wanted to be an episcopal minister for years. 355.3945 362 LES_int_01 355.5789 Mm-hm. 355.9213 363 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 356.0925 But, 356.3120 364 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 356.3120 (pause 0.13) 356.4394 365 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 356.4394 as time went on, 357.5940 366 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 357.5940 (pause 0.35) 357.9419 367 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 357.9419 I- I had become so secular 359.4126 368 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 359.4126 (pause 0.50) 359.9131 369 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 359.9131 so hedonistic, 360.9712 370 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 360.9712 (pause 0.26) 361.2302 371 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 361.2302 that I thought that this couldn't. Oh that'll never work, [you know (laughing) ] 364.4204 372 LES_int_01 363.7930 [] 364.7150 373 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 364.6136 [given] the life that I had led. 366.0229 374 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 366.5277 Uh. 366.8438 375 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 366.8438 (pause 0.22) 367.0634 376 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 367.0634 When I s- 367.4497 377 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 367.4497 (pause 0.18) 367.6297 378 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 367.6297 started speaking to /spo-/ 368.3629 379 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 368.3629 (pause 0.09) 368.4551 380 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 368.4551 Father /RD-NAME-2/ about it, 369.3683 381 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 369.3683 (pause 0.36) 369.7327 382 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 369.7327 /with this/, in terms of him sponsoring me. 371.6083 383 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 371.6083 (pause 0.85) 372.4557 384 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 372.4557 372.5698 385 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 372.5698 (pause 0.84) 373.4084 386 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 373.4084 And then we had another priest here, that was, and I was talking to him about it and he- 376.4113 387 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 376.4113 (pause 0.53) 376.9425 388 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 376.9425 And he said very simple thing to me, that m- 378.7323 389 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 378.7323 (pause 0.19) 378.9254 390 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 378.9254 that allowed me to 379.5664 391 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 379.5664 (pause 0.20) 379.7640 392 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 379.7640 proceed. He said, 380.6376 393 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 380.6376 (pause 2.05) 382.6835 394 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 382.6835 said, 382.9864 395 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 382.9864 (pause 0.11) 383.0918 396 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 383.0918 the Lord doesn't call those 384.8991 397 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 384.8991 (pause 1.04) 385.9440 398 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 385.9440 you know, 386.3040 399 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 386.3040 (pause 0.21) 386.5147 400 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 386.5147 who are ready 387.3225 401 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 387.3225 (pause 0.29) 387.6079 402 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 387.6079 to serve. 388.0820 403 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 388.0820 (pause 1.11) 389.1928 404 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 389.1928 He makes ready 390.2932 405 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 390.2932 (pause 0.19) 390.4820 406 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 390.4820 those that he calls. 391.6235 407 LES_int_01 391.6235 Mm. 392.1064 408 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 392.4752 So, I s- well, you know, it made eminent sense to me, [so they-] at least gave me the juice to enter into what was an incredible process, you know, because 399.2479 409 LES_int_01 394.6879 [Mm-hm.] 395.0435 410 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 399.8011 I said, 400.1830 411 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 400.1830 (pause 0.22) 400.4069 412 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 400.4069 I didn't want to 401.4782 413 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 401.4782 (pause 0.83) 402.3064 414 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 402.3064 didn't wanna become a priest 403.4347 415 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 403.4347 (pause 0.21) 403.6410 416 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 403.6410 at that age 404.4796 417 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 404.4796 (pause 0.23) 404.7079 418 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 404.7079 cause I was in my sixties then. 406.2094 419 LES_int_01 406.4903 Right. 407.0040 420 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 407.1050 And um, 407.7065 421 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 407.7065 (pause 0.83) 408.5366 422 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 408.5366 I said, but I wanted to be a deacon because in a 410.7668 423 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 410.7668 (pause 0.18) 410.9468 424 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 410.9468 episcopal church, 411.9610 425 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 411.9610 (pause 1.65) 413.6102 426 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 413.6102 there are three levels of ministry, there's a bishop, he has charge of a large area, like 417.3903 427 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 417.3903 (pause 0.13) 417.5176 428 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 417.5176 city of New [York.] 418.2233 429 LES_int_01 417.9511 [Right.] 418.4209 430 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 418.7457 Then, there's a priest, he had charge of the gathered flock of him in a church. 422.5170 431 LES_int_01 422.6560 Yeah. 422.8755 432 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 423.2091 And there's the deacon whose 424.6579 433 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 424.6579 (pause 0.61) 425.2726 434 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 425.2726 image is always 426.1770 435 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 426.1770 (pause 0.48) 426.6599 436 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 426.6599 the person standing in the door, looking out into the world, 429.6043 437 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 429.6043 (pause 0.40) 429.9994 438 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 429.9994 and so the responsibility 431.3692 439 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 431.3692 (pause 0.32) 431.6940 440 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 431.6940 is to 432.2823 441 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 432.2823 (pause 0.40) 432.6818 442 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 432.6818 take the message of the church out to the people 434.6833 443 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 434.6833 (pause 0.35) 435.0301 444 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 435.0301 [in the street.] 435.6096 445 LES_int_01 435.0301 [Ah.] 435.3594 446 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 435.8364 So, the idea of a street ministry 437.3905 447 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 437.3905 (pause 0.17) 437.5574 448 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 437.5574 truly appealed to me 438.7120 449 LES_int_01 438.9491 [Yeah.] 439.4364 450 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 439.3003 [you know.] 439.5506 451 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 439.9764 So, you know, I studied for four years, and ho- but then I was ordained 443.4520 452 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 443.4520 (pause 0.15) 443.6057 453 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 443.6057 in um, 444.0930 454 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 444.0930 (pause 0.12) 444.2159 455 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 444.2159 in May of two thousand, and reassigned to this church. 447.1881 456 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 447.1881 (pause 0.84) 448.0296 457 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 448.0296 Um. 448.3852 458 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 448.3852 (pause 1.18) 449.5618 459 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 449.5618 And i- it- in- 450.4267 460 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 450.4267 (pause 0.34) 450.7691 461 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 450.7691 um. 450.9008 462 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 450.9008 (pause 0.12) 451.0193 463 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 451.0193 During that period, just before ordination, uh, like um 453.4164 464 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 453.4164 (pause 0.52) 453.9374 465 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 453.9374 they started this Slave Galleries Project, uh, 456.0798 466 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 456.0798 (pause 0.76) 456.8437 467 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 456.8437 this church has the 457.7430 468 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 457.7430 (pause 0.21) 457.9501 469 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 457.9501 peculiar anomaly of 459.1706 470 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 459.1706 (pause 0.92) 460.0866 471 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 460.0866 two slave galleries was a part of it's original architecture, 462.9447 472 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 462.9447 (pause 0.37) 463.3135 473 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 463.3135 [and] 463.6603 474 LES_int_01 463.3135 [Huh.] 463.6603 475 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 464.8720 So, 465.3462 476 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 465.3462 (pause 0.36) 465.7106 477 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 465.7106 Father /RD-NAME-2/'s whole thing was that 467.5662 478 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 467.5662 (pause 0.65) 468.2159 479 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 468.2159 because of this whole gentrification phenomenon, 470.3013 480 LES_int_01 470.4637 Yeah. 470.7711 481 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 470.8764 that 471.1530 482 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 471.1530 (pause 0.22) 471.3725 483 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 471.3725 you kn- 471.5921 484 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 471.5921 (pause 0.41) 472.0032 485 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 472.0032 the f- 472.2535 486 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 472.2535 (pause 0.39) 472.6398 487 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 472.6398 the children 473.3686 488 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 473.3686 (pause 0.14) 473.5091 489 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 473.5091 of the families represented by our congregation here, 476.0379 490 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 476.0379 (pause 0.49) 476.5296 491 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 476.5296 would not be able to live in this neighborhood. 478.4730 492 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 478.4730 (pause 0.14) 478.6091 493 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 478.6091 Yeah, like my son couldn't afford to buy my apartment. 480.9403 494 LES_int_01 481.2081 Hm. 481.4759 495 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 481.9676 Okay. 482.3277 496 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 482.3277 (pause 0.47) 482.7974 497 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 482.7974 So, um, I'm- I'm gonna give it to him eventually, but 484.8901 498 LES_int_01 484.9735 [Right.] 485.2720 499 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 485.2105 [you] know, if he had to buy it, he'd really be in [trouble.] 487.3662 500 LES_int_01 487.0193 [/unintelligible/] 488.0203 501 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 488.0950 So, 488.4769 502 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 488.4769 (pause 0.79) 489.2672 503 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 489.2672 Uh. 489.4647 504 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 489.4647 (pause 0.42) 489.8891 505 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 489.8891 He said that 490.3588 506 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 490.3588 (pause 0.17) 490.5300 507 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 490.5300 Well, we need to do something 491.7637 508 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 491.7637 (pause 0.55) 492.3125 509 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 492.3125 that- 492.5584 510 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 492.5584 (pause 0.11) 492.6725 511 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 492.6725 that will survive us. 494.2530 512 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 494.2530 (pause 0.64) 494.8940 513 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 494.8940 And so, 495.3067 514 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 495.3067 (pause 0.13) 495.4340 515 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 495.4340 it was his idea 496.5275 516 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 496.5275 (pause 0.97) 497.4978 517 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 497.4978 that 497.8183 518 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 497.8183 (pause 0.26) 498.0802 519 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 498.0802 perhaps, 498.7782 520 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 498.7782 (pause 1.22) 499.9943 521 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 499.9943 this- the [restoration.] 501.3685 522 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 501.3685 (pause 2.23) 503.5938 523 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 503.5938 Hello. 503.9055 524 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 503.9055 (pause 0.58) 504.4807 525 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 504.4807 The restoration and preservation of the galleries and it's [all.] 507.3592 526 LES_int_01 508.0880 508.4787 527 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 508.8387 Don't worry. 509.2602 528 LES_int_01 509.3787 509.6717 529 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 509.8561 Of the sla- 510.3742 530 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 510.3742 (pause 0.11) 510.4839 531 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 510.4839 slave galleries, um 511.7308 532 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 511.7308 (pause 0.57) 512.2971 533 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 512.2971 would probably provide enough information 514.3362 534 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 514.3362 (pause 0.56) 514.8938 535 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 514.8938 you know 515.1528 536 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 515.1528 (pause 0.08) 515.2362 537 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 515.2362 to 515.4909 538 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 515.4909 (pause 1.23) 516.7230 539 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 516.7230 to serve as a testament 517.8557 540 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 517.8557 (pause 0.33) 518.1850 541 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 518.1850 to the presence of African Americans here 520.1035 542 LES_int_01 520.6128 Okay. 520.9114 543 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 521.2494 long 521.8333 544 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 521.8333 (pause 0.24) 522.0776 545 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 522.0776 you know, before anybody r- 523.1620 546 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 523.1620 (pause 0.13) 523.2894 547 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 523.2894 ever gave credence to that. 524.5669 548 LES_int_01 524.8655 Right. 525.1684 549 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 525.2606 So, I thought you know I said you know, that's really a good idea. He said, well, I'm glad you like it because you got it. 529.3377 550 LES_int_01 529.9919 530.4034 551 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 530.5450 And I said, 531.4450 552 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 531.4450 (pause 0.66) 532.1079 553 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 532.1079 I said, look, I'm a businessman turned minister, I don't know anything at all about restoration, preservation, or history. I hated history. 537.9631 554 LES_int_01 538.1343 [] 539.5611 555 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 538.7094 [You know.] 539.0518 556 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 539.6972 But, 539.9870 557 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 539.9870 (pause 0.16) 540.1435 558 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 540.1435 luckily for us, we had this um, longstanding re- 543.0060 559 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 543.0060 (pause 0.16) 543.1684 560 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 543.1684 um, 543.4011 561 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 543.4011 (pause 0.13) 543.5328 562 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 543.5328 relationship with the Tenement Museum. 545.0650 563 LES_int_01 545.7396 Uh-huh. 546.0733 564 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 546.1655 And so, they agreed to partner with us and 548.3079 565 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 548.3079 (pause 0.13) 548.4396 566 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 548.4396 to 548.5801 567 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 548.5801 (pause 0.26) 548.8391 568 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 548.8391 act a fiscal conduit and 550.3494 569 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 550.3494 (pause 0.29) 550.6435 570 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 550.6435 show us how to really get into this whole idea 553.3640 571 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 553.3640 (pause 0.40) 553.7591 572 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 553.7591 of um, [restoring] a historic site. 555.9279 573 LES_int_01 554.3356 [Right.] 554.6622 574 LES_int_01 556.1826 Right. 556.4811 575 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 556.7577 So, I- I literally signed on 558.3103 576 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 558.3103 (pause 0.11) 558.4245 577 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 558.4245 with them as a consultant 559.6274 578 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 559.6274 (pause 0.91) 560.5362 579 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 560.5362 uh, for three years, which was interesting, because I was 562.9772 580 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 562.9772 (pause 0.13) 563.1045 581 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 563.1045 a paid consultant, but I was really learning 565.3025 582 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 565.3025 (pause 0.46) 565.7635 583 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 565.7635 the whole thing. 566.3167 584 LES_int_01 566.3957 Mm-hm. 566.9050 585 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 567.1157 Um. 567.5679 586 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 567.5679 (pause 0.54) 568.1123 587 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 568.1123 And so we got started on the research, and we did 570.2840 588 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 570.2840 (pause 0.34) 570.6264 589 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 570.6264 the research on two levels and 572.0269 590 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 572.0269 (pause 0.34) 572.3694 591 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 572.3694 we raised about 573.1860 592 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 573.1860 (pause 0.13) 573.3133 593 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 573.3133 alm- nearly a quarter of a million dollars for 575.1879 594 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 575.1879 (pause 0.29) 575.4733 595 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 575.4733 for this, for interns, and whole /like/. 577.3684 596 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 577.3684 (pause 0.66) 578.0269 597 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 578.0269 And we were doing research on a genealogical 580.2835 598 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 580.2835 (pause 0.51) 580.7972 599 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 580.7972 you know, who 581.5962 600 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 581.5962 (pause 0.30) 581.8933 601 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 581.8933 who were the people who started this church, 583.4781 602 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 583.4781 (pause 0.33) 583.8118 603 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 583.8118 who sat in those galleries, that whole aspect of it. 586.1167 604 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 586.1167 (pause 0.55) 586.6699 605 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 586.6699 Um. 587.0738 606 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 587.0738 (pause 0.66) 587.7367 607 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 587.7367 And 588.0601 608 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 588.0601 (pause 0.36) 588.4157 609 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 588.4157 on the architectural, what could the space itself. The ghosts of the space. What could it tell us? [You know.] 593.3504 610 LES_int_01 593.1045 [Yeah.] 593.4558 611 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 593.9826 So, 594.3894 612 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 594.3894 (pause 0.40) 594.7845 613 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 594.7845 o- it was amazing because 596.1894 614 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 596.1894 (pause 0.50) 596.6899 615 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 596.6899 we immediately began to get a lot of ink, 599.1422 616 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 599.1422 (pause 0.17) 599.3134 617 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 599.3134 a lot of press about it, a lot of 600.8284 618 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 600.8284 (pause 0.09) 600.9162 619 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 600.9162 people began to be 601.6801 620 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 601.6801 (pause 0.32) 602.0006 621 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 602.0006 you know, interested. 602.8743 622 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 602.8743 (pause 0.71) 603.5855 623 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 603.5855 Um. 603.9235 624 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 603.9235 (pause 0.88) 604.8060 625 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 604.8060 And, 605.1704 626 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 605.1704 (pause 0.12) 605.2933 627 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 605.2933 we were encouraged to proceed, 607.0311 628 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 607.0311 (pause 0.43) 607.4570 629 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 607.4570 but 607.6765 630 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 607.6765 (pause 0.09) 607.7687 631 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 607.7687 of course, 608.2604 632 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 608.2604 (pause 0.13) 608.3921 633 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 608.3921 now 608.7828 634 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 608.7828 (pause 0.18) 608.9585 635 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 608.9585 it had gotten so large 610.3194 636 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 610.3194 (pause 0.36) 610.6838 637 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 610.6838 that the Tenement Museum 611.7755 638 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 611.7755 (pause 0.20) 611.9774 639 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 611.9774 they were pretty much forced to 613.0794 640 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 613.0794 (pause 0.11) 613.1892 641 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 613.1892 cut us loose. 613.9355 642 LES_int_01 614.3131 Yeah. 614.7828 643 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 615.0989 And you know, with their blessing, and so here I am on this thing, I said oh, 617.8721 644 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 617.8721 (pause 0.10) 617.9731 645 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 617.9731 God, you know. What do I do now? [/You know/.] 620.2604 646 LES_int_01 619.5316 [ You're on your own.] 621.4194 647 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 620.8970 [So,] 621.1736 648 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 621.4853 Yeah, so what I did was, we- we formed this corporation, not for profit corporation, called r- called /RD-WORK-6/. 627.5553 649 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 627.5553 (pause 0.55) 628.1087 650 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 628.1087 And our mission is to 629.2282 651 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 629.2282 (pause 0.48) 629.7052 652 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 629.7052 to- 629.9335 653 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 629.9335 (pause 0.79) 630.7194 654 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 630.7194 to- 630.8379 655 LES_int_01 630.9257 Mm-hm. 631.1409 656 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 631.3472 you know, just to 632.2384 657 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 632.2384 (pause 0.51) 632.7521 658 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 632.7521 enhance and follow through on the whole concept 635.1185 659 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 635.1185 (pause 0.29) 635.4111 660 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 635.4111 of the restoration and preservation of the 637.2462 661 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 637.2462 (pause 0.66) 637.9092 662 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 637.9092 of the slave galleries 638.9145 663 LES_int_01 639.0463 Mm-hm. 639.4107 664 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 639.7926 Ideally, 640.5960 665 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 640.5960 (pause 0.11) 640.7058 666 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 640.7058 you know, our pie in the sky vision, 642.4209 667 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 642.4209 (pause 0.32) 642.7457 668 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 642.7457 is that the s- 643.5492 669 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 643.5492 (pause 0.35) 643.9004 670 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 643.9004 the information, which is getting to be quite considerable, 646.2755 671 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 646.2755 (pause 0.43) 646.7058 672 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 646.7058 um, 647.0043 673 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 647.0043 (pause 0.09) 647.0965 674 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 647.0965 that we 647.7711 675 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 647.7711 (pause 1.00) 648.7677 676 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 648.7677 put together, 649.6414 677 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 649.6414 (pause 0.65) 650.2867 678 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 650.2867 would eventually 651.3799 679 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 651.3799 (pause 0.19) 651.5731 680 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 651.5731 be a seminal force that could start maybe 654.2935 681 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 654.2935 (pause 0.54) 654.8379 682 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 654.8379 an African American museum here in 656.5677 683 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 656.5677 (pause 0.12) 656.6906 684 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 656.6906 Lower Manhattan, and none exist. 658.5521 685 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 658.5521 (pause 0.09) 658.6443 686 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 658.6443 You know. 658.8287 687 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 658.8287 (pause 0.27) 659.0965 688 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 659.0965 [You have] 659.3935 689 LES_int_01 659.0965 [Yeah.] 659.3935 690 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 659.5648 sure, you have the burial ground, 660.8868 691 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 660.8868 (pause 0.34) 661.2292 692 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 661.2292 but they're all 661.7868 693 LES_int_01 661.9624 Yeah. 662.3048 694 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 662.3927 very /sple-/ 662.8010 695 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 662.8010 (pause 0.25) 663.0512 696 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 663.0512 but there isn't a 663.6483 697 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 663.6483 (pause 0.22) 663.8722 698 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 663.8722 a repository of information that tells about 666.1229 699 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 666.1229 (pause 0.46) 666.5839 700 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 666.5839 the kind and quality 667.8219 701 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 667.8219 (pause 0.24) 668.0590 702 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 668.0590 of contribution that African Americans made to life in Lower Manhattan. 671.4521 703 LES_int_01 671.5136 Right. 671.8297 704 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 672.5277 And 672.7780 705 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 672.7780 (pause 0.45) 673.2263 706 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 673.2263 and so eh- the thing of it is that the first thing I did was I had to try to 676.4455 707 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 676.4455 (pause 0.12) 676.5664 708 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 676.5664 figure out, well, what's gonna be 678.2115 709 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 678.2115 (pause 0.44) 678.6479 710 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 678.6479 our 679.0123 711 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 679.0123 (pause 1.62) 680.6323 712 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 680.6323 focus. 681.2908 713 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 681.2908 (pause 0.34) 681.6289 714 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 681.6289 Cause one of the first bit of data that we uncovered, was that the very first non-indigenous person to live in this city 687.0055 715 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 687.0055 (pause 0.40) 687.4094 716 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 687.4094 was a person of African decent. He was a Afro-Portuguese sailor, 690.5649 717 LES_int_01 690.8634 [Hm.] 691.1444 718 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 690.9688 [who] sailed into the harbor in 1613 on a Dutch ship, 694.3626 719 LES_int_01 694.7621 [Wow.] 695.1177 720 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 694.9202 [As-] as a translator, because he knew Indian dialect somehow. 697.7544 721 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 698.1935 [And] uh. 698.9706 722 LES_int_01 698.1935 [Hm.] 698.4306 723 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 699.4300 He was abandoned in the harbor. 700.5539 724 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 700.5539 (pause 0.85) 701.4013 725 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 701.4013 Had a argument with the ship's captain, he left him here, they sailed off [without him.] 704.5359 726 LES_int_01 704.0837 [Oh no. (laughing)] 705.0540 727 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 705.3027 And he co-habited with the Rockaway Indians and 707.7700 728 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 707.7700 (pause 0.34) 708.1125 729 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 708.1125 quite frankly, we give him credit for having started the African American population here, 711.6692 730 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 711.6692 (pause 0.42) 712.0906 731 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 712.0906 in uh, 712.5675 732 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 712.5675 (pause 0.62) 713.1867 733 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 713.1867 i- in Manhattan. 714.1745 734 LES_int_01 714.2755 [Yeah.] 714.6706 735 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 714.3984 [And] that was in 1613. 715.6935 736 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 716.0930 And it was about eight 716.8745 737 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 716.8745 (pause 0.14) 717.0150 738 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 717.0150 years later or so when the first 718.7140 739 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 718.7140 (pause 0.13) 718.8438 740 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 718.8438 nine or ten 719.9111 741 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 719.9111 (pause 0.53) 720.4379 742 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 720.4379 uh, 720.6530 743 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 720.6530 (pause 0.69) 721.3467 744 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 721.3467 African 721.8999 745 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 721.8999 (pause 0.19) 722.0886 746 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 722.0886 female slaves were brought into the harbor. 724.5648 747 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 724.5648 (pause 0.52) 725.0813 748 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 725.0813 Um. 725.4676 749 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 725.4676 (pause 0.73) 726.2008 750 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 726.2008 As a work force. 727.3599 751 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 727.3599 (pause 0.20) 727.5574 752 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 727.5574 [And then,] 728.1238 753 LES_int_01 727.5574 [Mm.] 728.0535 754 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 728.5321 the whole slave trade began to 730.0292 755 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 730.0292 (pause 0.16) 730.1872 756 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 730.1872 to burgeon. 730.8765 757 LES_int_01 731.0830 Right. 731.6138 758 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 731.8759 Now, people. 732.3896 759 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 732.3896 (pause 0.70) 733.0877 760 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 733.0877 There's slavery in New York, well what kind of /they-/, you know, enlightened bastion, of- of, 736.9404 761 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 736.9404 (pause 0.22) 737.1556 762 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 737.1556 you know 737.4453 763 LES_int_01 737.6209 The [North, /inaudible/ yeah,] yeah, [no I.] 740.7336 764 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 738.0073 [progress in the North. Yeah, you know what I-] 739.6712 765 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 739.6712 (pause 0.46) 740.1322 766 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 740.1322 [Yeah.] 740.4834 767 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 740.7732 And so the whole [thing was] 742.0289 768 LES_int_01 741.3440 [It's very true.] 742.1782 769 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 742.2792 The whole thing was, was that there was no city 744.4172 770 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 744.4172 (pause 0.25) 744.6719 771 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 744.6719 in this country, during the height of the slave trade 747.0279 772 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 747.0279 (pause 0.71) 747.7348 773 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 747.7348 that had more slaves 748.8675 774 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 748.8675 (pause 1.12) 749.9826 775 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 749.9826 than New York. 750.5885 776 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 750.5885 (pause 0.77) 751.3574 777 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 751.3574 You know, the only city wa- there was one city. It was Charleston, South [Carolina.] 754.6809 778 LES_int_01 754.3472 [ Right.] 755.1989 779 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 755.5633 Right? 755.7769 780 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 755.7769 (pause 0.68) 756.4618 781 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 756.4618 They had a 756.7911 782 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 756.7911 (pause 0.65) 757.4365 783 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 757.4365 burgeoning slave market, and we had a slave market here at Forty Wall Street. 760.9180 784 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 760.9180 (pause 0.28) 761.1989 785 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 761.1989 where of a given morning, you could buy a slave, you could rent a European worker, or- or- or- or 766.0180 786 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 766.0180 (pause 0.25) 766.2638 787 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 766.2638 an Indian 767.0848 788 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 767.0848 (pause 0.53) 767.6189 789 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 767.6189 cook, or whatever. 768.5057 790 LES_int_01 768.5716 Yeah. 768.8833 791 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 769.1730 You know. 769.4189 792 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 769.4189 (pause 0.13) 769.5462 793 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 769.5462 Yo- 769.7306 794 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 769.7306 (pause 0.16) 769.8887 795 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 769.8887 They dealt in flesh, right there, Forty Wall Street. 772.0487 796 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 772.0487 (pause 0.59) 772.6414 797 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 772.6414 So, 773.0102 798 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 773.0102 (pause 0.31) 773.3175 799 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 773.3175 s- th- th- thi- whi- that 774.6199 800 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 774.6199 (pause 0.95) 775.5726 801 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 775.5726 really 775.9150 802 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 775.9150 (pause 1.04) 776.9555 803 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 776.9555 caused me to 777.8336 804 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 777.8336 (pause 0.28) 778.1101 805 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 778.1101 or res- 778.6150 806 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 778.6150 (pause 0.10) 778.7116 807 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 778.7116 and it 778.9838 808 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 778.9838 (pause 0.13) 779.1111 809 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 779.1111 allowed me 779.9042 810 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 779.9042 (pause 0.44) 780.3433 811 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 780.3433 to sort of 780.9184 812 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 780.9184 (pause 0.15) 781.0649 813 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 781.0649 fine tune 781.9562 814 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 781.9562 (pause 0.38) 782.3337 815 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 782.3337 what the mission would be about. 783.5059 816 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 783.5059 (pause 0.74) 784.2479 817 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 784.2479 My experience with the Tenement Museum, 785.8400 818 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 785.8400 (pause 1.90) 787.7366 819 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 787.7366 used to make me very angry. 788.7289 820 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 788.7289 (pause 0.62) 789.3523 821 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 789.3523 because, almost everything that they do is 791.4782 822 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 791.4782 (pause 0.17) 791.6450 823 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 791.6450 proscribed by 792.6197 824 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 792.6197 (pause 0.19) 792.8129 825 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 792.8129 the building 793.4143 826 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 793.4143 (pause 0.34) 793.7568 827 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 793.7568 that they have 794.2573 828 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 794.2573 (pause 0.15) 794.4065 829 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 794.4065 okay, they. 794.8675 830 LES_int_01 794.8675 Right. 795.3592 831 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 795.3592 Okay. 795.6402 832 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 795.9563 Which was fine, 796.7851 833 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 796.7851 (pause 0.84) 797.6280 834 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 797.6280 but, 797.8388 835 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 797.8388 (pause 0.87) 798.7124 836 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 798.7124 what it does 799.8363 837 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 799.8363 (pause 0.34) 800.1788 838 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 800.1788 in the way they 800.7407 839 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 800.7407 (pause 0.41) 801.1534 840 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 801.1534 present 801.9158 841 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 801.9158 (pause 0.47) 802.3856 842 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 802.3856 is it creates the impression 803.8695 843 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 803.8695 (pause 0.39) 804.2558 844 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 804.2558 that 804.5851 845 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 804.5851 (pause 0.96) 805.5422 846 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 805.5422 immigration 806.3149 847 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 806.3149 (pause 0.25) 806.5695 848 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 806.5695 meant 807.1534 849 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 807.1534 (pause 1.81) 808.9607 850 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 808.9607 that great 809.4700 851 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 809.4700 (pause 0.24) 809.7114 852 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 809.7114 in-migration that took place in the middle nineteenth century. 812.7934 853 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 812.7934 (pause 0.77) 813.5646 854 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 813.5646 You know, all these Europeans came, 815.1012 855 LES_int_01 815.2417 [Hm.] 815.4173 856 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 815.4085 and settled in the Lower East Side, 816.8749 857 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 817.0680 and they lived in these tenements, 818.4861 858 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 818.4861 (pause 0.27) 818.7539 859 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 818.7539 and 819.1710 860 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 819.1710 (pause 0.09) 819.2588 861 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 819.2588 that was it. And I said to myself, well 820.8422 862 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 820.8422 (pause 0.37) 821.2153 863 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 821.2153 you know 821.5666 864 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 821.5666 (pause 0.11) 821.6763 865 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 821.6763 there was an African American population here in the 823.6827 866 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 823.6827 (pause 0.27) 823.9530 867 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 823.9530 seventeenth century, 824.9721 868 LES_int_01 825.0775 [Hm.] 825.2575 869 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 825.2575 And in the eighteenth century, it was a Hispanic population, 828.0310 870 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 828.3120 and a l- very large 830.0637 871 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 830.0637 (pause 0.29) 830.3535 872 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 830.3535 a 830.5335 873 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 830.5335 (pause 0.84) 831.3720 874 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 831.3720 Indian population and 832.8340 875 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 832.8340 (pause 0.41) 833.2397 876 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 833.2397 and 833.5866 877 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 833.5866 (pause 0.15) 833.7358 878 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 833.7358 and, and Chinese, and 834.8670 879 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 834.8670 (pause 0.10) 834.9636 880 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 834.9636 you know, and I said, 835.6924 881 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 835.6924 (pause 0.32) 836.0173 882 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 836.0173 they were the people 837.1851 883 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 837.1851 (pause 1.04) 838.2256 884 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 838.2256 who built 838.8578 885 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 838.8578 (pause 0.12) 838.9763 886 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 838.9763 the infrastructure of the city. 841.0382 887 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 841.0382 (pause 0.54) 841.5782 888 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 841.5782 Bec- otherwise, 842.9260 889 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 842.9260 (pause 0.09) 843.0138 890 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 843.0138 those European immigrants could not have got from Ellis Island 846.7397 891 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 846.7397 (pause 0.21) 846.9460 892 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 846.9460 to the Lower East [Side, there was just no way.] 849.3080 893 LES_int_01 847.8197 [] 849.3080 894 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 849.7119 You found somebody put the streets and the roads and all that [stuff in-] 852.8494 895 LES_int_01 852.4499 [Yeah. (laughing)] 852.8494 896 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 853.2709 in place. 853.7758 897 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 853.7758 (pause 0.32) 854.0919 898 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 854.0919 And so, that's what gives us our focus now, is that 856.7261 899 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 856.7261 (pause 0.33) 857.0597 900 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 857.0597 that part of history is the story yet to be told. 860.1923 901 LES_int_01 860.2450 Mm. 860.6928 902 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 860.8026 And so, we're working hard 862.3611 903 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 862.3611 (pause 0.42) 862.7782 904 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 862.7782 at- at 863.1953 905 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 863.1953 (pause 0.15) 863.3445 906 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 863.3445 developing that part of it. 864.6513 907 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 864.6513 (pause 0.27) 864.9191 908 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 864.9191 [Um.] 865.2704 909 LES_int_01 864.9191 [Yeah.] 865.2704 910 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 866.0123 We meet roadblocks because there are a lot of people who don't like competition in New York City. 870.1990 911 LES_int_01 870.7391 Right. 871.0728 912 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 871.0728 You know because everybody's competing for the same dollars. 873.6455 913 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 873.7684 [You know.] 874.1196 914 LES_int_01 873.7684 [Sure.] 874.1196 915 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 874.2777 Me- 874.4884 916 LES_int_01 874.8177 [Sure.] 875.1909 917 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 875.1294 [You] know what I mean.] 875.8450 918 LES_int_01 875.9065 [Yeah.] 876.3060 919 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 876.2006 [Yeah.] And so we, 877.2264 920 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 877.5469 but- but, we're, you know, we're pushing on, we're persevering as best we can. 881.5421 921 LES_int_01 881.9723 Yeah. 882.2709 922 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 882.3060 Um. 882.7319 923 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 882.7319 (pause 0.81) 883.5425 924 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 883.5425 We're now 884.2143 925 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 884.2143 (pause 0.80) 885.0177 926 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 885.0177 I got a couple or few grants 886.5367 927 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 886.5367 (pause 0.43) 886.9626 928 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 886.9626 b- this year 887.7704 929 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 887.7704 (pause 0.58) 888.3455 930 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 888.3455 um, 888.7143 931 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 888.7143 (pause 0.15) 888.8680 932 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 888.8680 to, uh, 889.3801 933 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 889.3801 (pause 0.33) 889.7094 934 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 889.7094 do certain things, like we built a website. 891.6411 935 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 891.6411 (pause 0.54) 892.1811 936 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 892.1811 Um. 892.6772 937 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 892.6772 (pause 0.72) 893.3928 938 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 893.3928 Wa- we- we're developing a curriculum 895.4591 939 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 895.4591 (pause 0.72) 896.1835 940 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 896.1835 um, 896.3986 941 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 896.3986 (pause 0.22) 896.6182 942 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 896.6182 that 896.8377 943 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 896.8377 (pause 0.18) 897.0133 944 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 897.0133 we hope will get New York State 898.3084 945 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 898.3084 (pause 0.50) 898.8133 946 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 898.8133 approval 899.4938 947 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 899.4938 (pause 0.14) 899.6299 948 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 899.6299 so that 900.1392 949 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 900.1392 (pause 0.80) 900.9392 950 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 900.9392 if a teacher wants to bring a class from anywhere in the state, 903.6437 951 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 903.6437 (pause 0.48) 904.1222 952 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 904.1222 um, 904.3856 953 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 904.3856 (pause 1.44) 905.8256 954 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 905.8256 that we will send them information to use in the classroom about 909.1388 955 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 909.1388 (pause 0.24) 909.3758 956 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 909.3758 you know 909.7358 957 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 909.7358 (pause 0.14) 909.8807 958 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 909.8807 African American history 910.9827 959 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 910.9827 (pause 0.27) 911.2505 960 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 911.2505 [you know, or] 911.5842 961 LES_int_01 911.2971 [Mm-hm.] 911.5842 962 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 911.6939 par- 911.8827 963 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 911.8827 (pause 0.13) 912.0100 964 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 912.0100 particularly in New York City 913.1439 965 LES_int_01 913.3678 Mm-hm. 913.7103 966 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 913.7103 and 914.1669 967 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 914.4654 then they'll be the visit, 915.4225 968 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 915.4225 (pause 0.34) 915.7649 969 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 915.7649 and then 916.2786 970 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 916.2786 (pause 0.15) 916.4279 971 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 916.4279 we'll give them 917.1742 972 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 917.1742 (pause 0.19) 917.3674 973 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 917.3674 materials to use post visit. 918.9727 974 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 918.9727 (pause 0.56) 919.5303 975 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 919.5303 You know. 919.7498 976 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 919.7498 (pause 0.42) 920.1669 977 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 920.1669 So we're hoping to get that set, because once we do that, then 922.7571 978 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 922.7571 (pause 0.40) 923.1567 979 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 923.1567 uh, o- one thing we can do is that we can get funding for 926.4438 980 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 926.4438 (pause 0.31) 926.7555 981 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 926.7555 those, 927.2033 982 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 927.2033 (pause 0.34) 927.5458 983 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 927.5458 um, 927.8224 984 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 927.8224 (pause 1.15) 928.9770 985 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 928.9770 inner city schools, 930.1404 986 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 930.1404 (pause 0.30) 930.4418 987 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 930.4418 so to speak, 931.0257 988 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 931.0257 (pause 0.45) 931.4779 989 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 931.4779 who s- 932.1277 990 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 932.1277 (pause 0.44) 932.5667 991 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 932.5667 can't afford to pay. 933.4228 992 LES_int_01 933.7530 [Mm-hm, mm-hm.] 934.6969 993 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 933.9330 [for a- a tour.] 934.7312 994 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 935.2252 And so, we can give that funded, and you know, uh, 937.2828 995 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 937.2828 (pause 0.12) 937.4013 996 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 937.4013 expose the 938.3540 997 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 938.3540 (pause 0.12) 938.4726 998 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 938.4726 the- the materials that were developing pretty rapidly, 941.0174 999 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 941.0174 (pause 0.46) 941.4784 1000 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 941.4784 to a wider 942.8130 1001 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 942.8130 (pause 0.13) 942.9403 1002 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 942.9403 audience. 943.5638 1003 LES_int_01 943.6033 [Mm-hm.] 943.9018 1004 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 943.9018 We're now members of the 945.0477 1005 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 945.4676 the International Coalition of Historic Sites of Conscience 948.8701 1006 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 948.8701 (pause 0.29) 949.1642 1007 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 949.1642 that 949.4013 1008 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 949.4013 (pause 0.60) 950.0028 1009 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 950.0028 you know, 950.3277 1010 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 950.3277 (pause 0.09) 950.4199 1011 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 950.4199 and we've had visitors from all over the world come here. 953.3467 1012 LES_int_01 953.3993 [Mm.] 953.8384 1013 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 953.5925 [You know.] 953.8647 1014 LES_int_01 954.0491 [Mm-hm.] 954.3345 1015 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 954.3389 Um, in the last 955.3969 1016 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 955.3969 (pause 0.11) 955.5067 1017 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 955.5067 seven or eight years, and so, the- there is an awareness building 958.4993 1018 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 958.4993 (pause 0.50) 958.9998 1019 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 958.9998 um, 959.5486 1020 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 959.5486 (pause 0.72) 960.2730 1021 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 960.2730 I- I 960.8701 1022 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 960.8701 (pause 0.12) 960.9886 1023 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 960.9886 put us into the uh, 962.0116 1024 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 962.0116 (pause 0.88) 962.8925 1025 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 962.8925 the um, 963.4632 1026 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 963.4632 (pause 0.21) 963.6696 1027 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 963.6696 the North East African American preservation group 966.2774 1028 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 966.2774 (pause 0.11) 966.3872 1029 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 966.3872 that's run out of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, so we're- we're connecting and- 970.2184 1030 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 970.2184 (pause 0.32) 970.5432 1031 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 970.5432 and networking with a lot of other sites [around,] 972.7867 1032 LES_int_01 972.3871 [Mm.] 972.7006 1033 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 973.2916 you know. 973.5989 1034 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 973.5989 (pause 0.72) 974.3189 1035 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 974.3189 A- and so, that's what I've been doing 975.9506 1036 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 975.9506 (pause 0.10) 976.0471 1037 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 976.0471 you know, I- I am the busiest retired person in America, I'm [seventy nine years old, I work] too hard, 981.3555 1038 LES_int_01 979.2142 [] 980.6405 1039 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 981.8648 you know, but, uh, 982.8658 1040 LES_int_01 982.8658 983.6121 1041 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 984.4902 The opposite of that is boredom. 985.8882 1042 LES_int_01 985.8882 Yeah (laughing) [] 987.6136 1043 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 986.3317 [right?] 986.5907 1044 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 986.5907 (pause 0.09) 986.6829 1045 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 986.6829 [So I- uh,] So, 988.0746 1046 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 988.7814 But, um 989.3390 1047 LES_int_01 989.3390 But, it's important work. 990.2522 1048 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 990.3663 Yeah, and- and so, ye- so, you know the st- 992.6039 1049 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 992.6039 (pause 0.18) 992.7882 1050 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 992.7882 the sum of it all is- is that I've- I've been here on the Lower East Side 995.6419 1051 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 995.6419 (pause 1.44) 997.0863 1052 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 997.0863 I f- 997.2751 1053 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 997.2751 (pause 0.25) 997.5298 1054 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 997.5298 maintain a legal residence, put it that way. 999.4951 1055 LES_int_01 999.6048 Yeah. 999.9253 1056 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 999.9385 For 1000.2019 1057 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1000.2019 (pause 0.69) 1000.8956 1058 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1000.8956 fifty two years or something. 1002.2030 1059 LES_int_01 1002.4717 Wow. 1002.8756 1060 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1003.2312 And um. 1003.7785 1061 LES_int_01 1004.7663 Lemme ask you a little bit about, uh, 1006.8297 1062 LES_int_01 1006.8297 (pause 0.70) 1007.5278 1063 LES_int_01 1007.5278 your memories of the neighborhood. 1008.9810 1064 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1009.5254 Well, I just- [/what I was just about to ??/] 1011.2646 1065 LES_int_01 1010.7421 [Yeah, oh yeah, great.] 1011.5412 1066 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1012.0614 Um. 1012.4127 1067 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1012.4127 (pause 2.15) 1014.5639 1068 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1014.5639 What I remember about this neighborhood was that 1016.6214 1069 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1016.6214 (pause 1.04) 1017.6619 1070 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1017.6619 it was 1018.2370 1071 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1018.2370 (pause 0.25) 1018.4829 1072 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1018.4829 a lot 1018.8605 1073 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1018.8605 (pause 0.39) 1019.2468 1074 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1019.2468 it was always a busy place. It's very busy right now. 1021.8513 1075 LES_int_01 1022.0577 Yeah. 1022.3035 1076 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1022.5011 Kay. 1022.7206 1077 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1022.7206 (pause 0.52) 1023.2415 1078 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1023.2415 And, you know 1024.0976 1079 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1024.0976 (pause 0.30) 1024.4006 1080 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1024.4006 e- 1024.5235 1081 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1024.5235 (pause 0.22) 1024.7474 1082 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1024.7474 as a 1025.1425 1083 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1025.1425 (pause 0.17) 1025.3094 1084 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1025.3094 youngster growing up in Brooklyn, 1026.8328 1085 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1026.8328 (pause 0.18) 1027.0128 1086 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1027.0128 my grandmother, and my mother, and her sister, they were both master seamstresses. 1031.1682 1087 LES_int_01 1031.5677 Mm. 1031.8750 1088 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1031.8750 And, so they, they worked. 1033.2492 1089 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1033.4950 They- 1033.6575 1090 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1033.6575 (pause 0.10) 1033.7540 1091 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1033.7540 they made 1034.1616 1092 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1034.1616 (pause 0.12) 1034.2845 1093 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1034.2845 clothing for very- 1035.2284 1094 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1035.2284 (pause 0.25) 1035.4791 1095 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1035.4791 for 1035.6196 1096 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1035.6196 (pause 0.10) 1035.7205 1097 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1035.7205 wealthy, private customers who lived in Brooklyn Heights and places like [that.] 1039.3893 1098 LES_int_01 1039.0776 [Okay.] 1039.3893 1099 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1039.9556 And so every Sunday, 1041.0049 1100 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1041.0049 (pause 0.34) 1041.3404 1101 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1041.3404 you know, my grandmother, and my mother and my aunt, and they would all schlep us 1045.0644 1102 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1045.0644 (pause 0.13) 1045.1917 1103 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1045.1917 o- 1045.2708 1104 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1045.2708 (pause 0.12) 1045.3937 1105 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1045.3937 me, myself, and my cousin, 1046.7547 1106 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1046.7547 (pause 0.36) 1047.1103 1107 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1047.1103 over here to Orchard Street 1048.5201 1108 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1048.5201 (pause 0.15) 1048.6738 1109 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1048.6738 around 1049.0557 1110 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1049.0557 (pause 0.46) 1049.5123 1111 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1049.5123 to buy [f-] 1050.0991 1112 LES_int_01 1049.8884 [Ah. Yeah.] 1050.7840 1113 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1050.6742 fabric [and notions] 1052.0747 1114 LES_int_01 1051.1967 [Fabric.] 1051.5567 1115 LES_int_01 1052.3689 [Yeah.] 1052.6762 1116 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1052.4698 [a-] and things of that sort, [you know.] 1054.1513 1117 LES_int_01 1053.7913 [Right.] 1054.0986 1118 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1054.6255 And 1055.1918 1119 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1055.1918 (pause 0.10) 1055.2884 1120 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1055.2884 and I remember the- 1056.0508 1121 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1056.0508 (pause 0.12) 1056.1737 1122 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1056.1737 I remember egg creams a- and Charlotte [Russe and] 1059.0186 1123 LES_int_01 1058.4693 [ Yeah.] 1059.6854 1124 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1059.3786 [I mean] very vividly, you know, that was an important part of my life. 1062.1835 1125 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1062.6270 And- 1062.8773 1126 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1062.8773 (pause 0.09) 1062.9695 1127 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1062.9695 because we used to have to carry the stuff back, so we would always get rewarded. 1066.1744 1128 LES_int_01 1066.3500 [] 1067.1124 1129 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1066.9324 [before] the fact. 1067.6656 1130 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1068.2582 Um. 1068.6490 1131 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1068.6490 (pause 0.45) 1069.0968 1132 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1069.0968 But, i- i- i- it was always an interesting neighborhood to me 1071.9724 1133 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1071.9724 (pause 0.14) 1072.1129 1134 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1072.1129 and 1072.4246 1135 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1072.4246 (pause 0.96) 1073.3890 1136 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1073.3890 what 1073.6348 1137 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1073.6348 (pause 0.19) 1073.8280 1138 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1073.8280 interested me about it, 1074.9826 1139 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1074.9826 (pause 0.46) 1075.4392 1140 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1075.4392 the- as a youngster growing up, 1077.1163 1141 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1077.1163 (pause 1.32) 1078.4378 1142 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1078.4378 and now 1079.1651 1143 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1079.1651 (pause 0.43) 1079.5953 1144 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1079.5953 even, 1079.9904 1145 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1079.9904 (pause 0.31) 1080.3038 1146 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1080.3038 was the heterogeneity. I mean 1082.0555 1147 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1082.0555 (pause 0.11) 1082.1697 1148 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1082.1697 this is the most incredible thing, I'm- I'm still 1084.5700 1149 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1084.5700 (pause 0.11) 1084.6798 1150 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1084.6798 you know, 1085.0530 1151 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1085.0530 (pause 0.12) 1085.1759 1152 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1085.1759 overwhelmed by a walk from here to China Town. You know, you 1088.0032 1153 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1088.0032 (pause 1.01) 1089.0086 1154 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1089.0086 there's no telling where a person is from, [right?] 1091.0687 1155 LES_int_01 1090.8360 [Yeah.] 1091.3716 1156 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1091.5121 That you might encounter. 1092.4165 1157 LES_int_01 1092.5745 Right. 1092.8256 1158 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1092.8256 And that makes it so, 1093.7775 1159 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1093.9224 so very exciting. 1094.8399 1160 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1094.8399 (pause 0.31) 1095.1545 1161 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1095.1545 You know. 1095.3696 1162 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1095.3696 (pause 0.47) 1095.8438 1163 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1095.8438 Then, 1096.1994 1164 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1096.1994 (pause 0.30) 1096.5023 1165 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1096.5023 um. 1096.8096 1166 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1096.8096 (pause 0.62) 1097.4331 1167 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1097.4331 A- as a youth, 1098.2584 1168 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1098.2584 (pause 0.29) 1098.5482 1169 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1098.5482 growing up in- 1099.3077 1170 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1099.3077 (pause 0.12) 1099.4307 1171 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1099.4307 in- 1099.7116 1172 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1099.7116 (pause 0.21) 1099.9224 1173 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1099.9224 in Brooklyn 1100.5985 1174 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1100.5985 (pause 0.11) 1100.7038 1175 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1100.7038 and going to high school 1101.8306 1176 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1101.8306 (pause 0.15) 1101.9799 1177 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1101.9799 on the 1102.2389 1178 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1102.2389 (pause 0.61) 1102.8536 1179 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1102.8536 in Lower Manhattan on fifteenth street, 1104.3462 1180 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1104.3462 (pause 0.16) 1104.5106 1181 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1104.5106 [it's /unintelligible/, it was] 1105.7336 1182 LES_int_01 1105.1365 [Mm. Mm-hm.] Mm-hm. 1106.3348 1183 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1106.5853 So, I would get off the subway every day, 1108.6384 1184 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1108.6384 (pause 1.29) 1109.9292 1185 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1109.9292 a- the F train, Second Avenue stop 1111.8126 1186 LES_int_01 1112.1720 Yeah. 1112.5769 1187 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1112.5633 and Houston 1113.4154 1188 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1113.5252 and I would walk to Fifteenth Street. 1115.4306 1189 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1115.4306 (pause 0.46) 1115.8915 1190 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1115.8915 and so the- I knew everything. I mean I knew the sec- the Yiddish theater, I knew who the actors were, I [knew all the] delicatessens. 1122.1857 1191 LES_int_01 1120.9257 [Right.] 1121.2857 1192 LES_int_01 1122.4842 Yeah. 1122.7784 1193 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1122.7988 Excuse me. 1123.7822 1194 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1123.7822 (pause 1.04) 1124.8227 1195 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1124.8227 And so 1125.2837 1196 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1125.2837 (pause 0.51) 1125.7930 1197 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1125.7930 I had- 1126.3988 1198 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1126.3988 (pause 1.50) 1127.8965 1199 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1127.8965 I had an incredibly rich 1129.6833 1200 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1129.6833 (pause 0.15) 1129.8326 1201 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1129.8326 life. 1130.3945 1202 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1130.3945 (pause 0.90) 1131.2989 1203 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1131.2989 Because of all of the infusion of all these 1133.5365 1204 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1133.5365 (pause 0.37) 1133.9096 1205 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1133.9096 various [cultures.] 1135.0335 1206 LES_int_01 1134.8711 [Sure.] 1135.3365 1207 LES_int_01 1135.5121 Yeah. 1135.7536 1208 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1135.9204 Now, 1136.3023 1209 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1136.3023 (pause 1.60) 1137.9048 1210 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1137.9048 the thing about it 1138.7374 1211 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1138.7374 (pause 0.52) 1139.2599 1212 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1139.2599 then, and you have to forgive me, I have a really bad sinus [condition.] 1142.4692 1213 LES_int_01 1142.0872 [Oh, don't worry about it.] 1142.8775 1214 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1142.6316 [It-] 1142.8819 1215 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1143.3209 Um. 1143.5843 1216 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1143.5843 (pause 0.57) 1144.1588 1217 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1144.1588 The thing about it 1145.0149 1218 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1145.0149 (pause 1.25) 1146.2662 1219 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1146.2662 now 1146.6745 1220 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1146.6745 (pause 0.28) 1146.9511 1221 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1146.9511 as opposed to then, 1148.1672 1222 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1148.1672 (pause 1.13) 1149.2955 1223 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1149.2955 is that 1149.7740 1224 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1149.7740 (pause 1.12) 1150.8920 1225 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1150.8920 it seems to be becoming 1152.3320 1226 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1152.3320 (pause 0.48) 1152.8150 1227 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1152.8150 so rapidly, a neighborhood for the privileged. 1155.5238 1228 LES_int_01 1156.0638 Yeah. 1156.3272 1229 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1156.8086 Mm. 1157.0413 1230 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1157.0413 (pause 1.58) 1158.6174 1231 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1158.6174 And. 1158.9642 1232 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1158.9642 (pause 1.39) 1160.3560 1233 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1160.3560 I mean, there were always people of wealth here. 1162.0857 1234 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1162.0857 (pause 0.41) 1162.4984 1235 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1162.4984 There ar- there was always an incredible 1164.2267 1236 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1164.2267 (pause 0.37) 1164.5954 1237 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1164.5954 you know, artistic community 1166.1233 1238 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1166.1233 (pause 0.25) 1166.3691 1239 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1166.3691 it dispersed, 1167.1374 1240 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1167.1374 (pause 0.65) 1167.7828 1241 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1167.7828 at- at least 1168.5599 1242 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1168.5599 (pause 0.13) 1168.6916 1243 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1168.6916 I know for the last 1170.0467 1244 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1170.0467 (pause 0.13) 1170.1784 1245 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1170.1784 seventy-odd years or more. 1172.0047 1246 LES_int_01 1172.0706 Yeah. 1172.5711 1247 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1172.7072 Um. 1172.9442 1248 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1172.9442 (pause 1.19) 1174.1340 1249 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1174.1340 But we 1174.5540 1250 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1174.5540 (pause 0.08) 1174.6330 1251 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1174.6330 went down the entire socioeconomic scale. 1177.2979 1252 LES_int_01 1177.4867 Mm-hm. 1177.9213 1253 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1177.9828 And then, during the thirties, 1179.1506 1254 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1179.1506 (pause 0.11) 1179.2604 1255 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1179.2604 particularly, and right up until nineteen forty-two 1181.8182 1256 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1181.8182 (pause 0.28) 1182.0948 1257 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1182.0948 everybody was poor. 1183.5436 1258 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1183.5436 (pause 1.46) 1185.0012 1259 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1185.0012 Cause 1185.2163 1260 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1185.2163 (pause 0.12) 1185.3348 1261 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1185.3348 the Great Depression was upon [us.] 1187.0411 1262 LES_int_01 1186.7689 [Right.] 1187.3167 1263 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1187.6294 As a- nobody had any (coughing) you know, very few people. 1190.5621 1264 LES_int_01 1190.0836 [Was no wealth (laughing) ] 1191.5625 1265 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1190.9134 [Right, that's right.] 1191.8787 1266 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1192.2650 And- and so, that was an interesting phenomenon, in it of itself, it had the- 1195.2647 1267 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1195.2647 (pause 0.20) 1195.4666 1268 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1195.4666 the- 1195.6290 1269 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1195.6290 (pause 0.11) 1195.7388 1270 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1195.7388 the- 1195.9891 1271 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1195.9891 (pause 0.31) 1196.3008 1272 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1196.3008 the effect of 1196.9227 1273 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1196.9227 (pause 0.15) 1197.0763 1274 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1197.0763 bonding together, people of- 1198.6305 1275 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1198.6305 (pause 0.09) 1198.7227 1276 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1198.7227 of very diverse backgrounds, and ethnicities, and things, cause we were all in same boat. 1202.8852 1277 LES_int_01 1203.3297 Yeah. 1203.6327 1278 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1203.6398 You know. 1203.9295 1279 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1203.9295 (pause 0.33) 1204.2588 1280 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1204.2588 And then, along came World War Two, and of course people began to 1207.0144 1281 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1207.0144 (pause 0.15) 1207.1637 1282 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1207.1637 do a little better because of 1208.4325 1283 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1208.4325 (pause 0.09) 1208.5247 1284 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1208.5247 there were opportunities that 1209.6486 1285 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1209.6486 (pause 0.32) 1209.9734 1286 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1209.9734 to earn 1210.6173 1287 LES_int_01 1211.1046 [Yeah.] 1211.5305 1288 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1211.2056 [um,] 1211.4866 1289 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1211.8597 and 1212.1627 1290 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1212.1627 (pause 0.15) 1212.3163 1291 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1212.3163 the like. 1212.7071 1292 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1212.7071 (pause 0.47) 1213.1812 1293 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1213.1812 But now, 1214.0681 1294 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1214.0681 (pause 1.39) 1215.4554 1295 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1215.4554 it seems like 1216.1271 1296 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1216.1271 (pause 0.40) 1216.5310 1297 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1216.5310 all those people who 1217.5041 1298 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1217.5041 (pause 1.21) 1218.7159 1299 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1218.7159 their image counterparts, 1220.3666 1300 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1220.3666 (pause 0.13) 1220.4983 1301 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1220.4983 i- in- in the 1221.4773 1302 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1221.4773 (pause 0.62) 1222.0964 1303 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1222.0964 thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties, and even 1224.6939 1304 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1224.6939 (pause 0.23) 1224.9222 1305 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1224.9222 s- 1225.1593 1306 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1225.1593 (pause 0.30) 1225.4578 1307 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1225.4578 even 1225.9407 1308 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1225.9407 (pause 0.95) 1226.8934 1309 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1226.8934 seventies and eighties, 1227.9866 1310 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1227.9866 (pause 1.63) 1229.6139 1311 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1229.6139 who used to work hard 1231.0802 1312 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1231.0802 (pause 0.57) 1231.6510 1313 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1231.6510 and achieve 1232.6739 1314 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1232.6739 (pause 0.67) 1233.3456 1315 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1233.3456 a- and raise their families and the like, and enjoy 1236.4305 1316 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1236.4305 (pause 0.40) 1236.8300 1317 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1236.8300 the neighborhood and it's vibrancy and it's character 1239.4422 1318 LES_int_01 1239.6266 Yeah. 1239.8637 1319 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1240.0305 are replaced 1241.0344 1320 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1241.0344 (pause 0.37) 1241.4075 1321 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1241.4075 by a much smaller group of very bright, very intelligent, very hard working people who are m- 1245.4554 1322 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1245.4554 (pause 0.15) 1245.6091 1323 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1245.6091 earning 1245.9647 1324 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1245.9647 (pause 0.37) 1246.3335 1325 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1246.3335 incredible amounts of money, 1248.1056 1326 LES_int_01 1248.2285 Yeah. 1248.5402 1327 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1248.6149 and so they've raised a- the- the- 1250.6520 1328 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1250.6520 (pause 0.42) 1251.0691 1329 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1251.0691 the cost of everything 1252.1930 1330 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1252.1930 (pause 1.27) 1253.4630 1331 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1253.4630 to the degree that it's pricing other people out. 1255.4606 1332 LES_int_01 1255.7635 Yeah. 1255.9654 1333 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1256.0093 Poor people 1256.6284 1334 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1256.6284 (pause 0.19) 1256.8172 1335 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1256.8172 are just being forced right out 1258.6727 1336 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1258.6727 (pause 0.58) 1259.2566 1337 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1259.2566 of the neighborhood. 1260.0337 1338 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1260.0337 (pause 0.59) 1260.6220 1339 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1260.6220 and I think that's a 1261.4342 1340 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1261.4342 (pause 0.14) 1261.5703 1341 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1261.5703 very very 1262.3386 1342 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1262.3386 (pause 0.15) 1262.4879 1343 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1262.4879 dangerous thing 1263.7128 1344 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1263.7128 (pause 0.36) 1264.0772 1345 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1264.0772 particularly for New York. 1265.4059 1346 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1265.4059 (pause 0.36) 1265.7659 1347 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1265.7659 It's not as if we were just a small community, a suburban community somewhere, 1269.9806 1348 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1269.9806 (pause 0.39) 1270.3669 1349 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1270.3669 and the character 1271.0635 1350 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1271.0635 (pause 0.14) 1271.1996 1351 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1271.1996 could change and 1272.1259 1352 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1272.1259 (pause 0.27) 1272.3937 1353 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1272.3937 and another one similar to it would s- 1274.1454 1354 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1274.1454 (pause 0.21) 1274.3518 1355 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1274.3518 sn- 1274.6108 1356 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1274.6108 (pause 0.11) 1274.7250 1357 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1274.7250 you know, spring up adjacent, 1276.0245 1358 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1276.0245 (pause 0.20) 1276.2264 1359 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1276.2264 i- 1276.3845 1360 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1276.3845 (pause 0.09) 1276.4767 1361 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1276.4767 adjacent to it. 1277.1617 1362 LES_int_01 1277.2978 Yeah. 1277.5876 1363 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1278.0837 What this is, is that there are people who are going to be displaced. 1281.9674 1364 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1281.9674 (pause 0.43) 1282.3933 1365 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1282.3933 With no real concern for what happens to them. 1285.0819 1366 LES_int_01 1285.7185 Mm-hm. 1286.1400 1367 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1286.4692 You know. 1286.7107 1368 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1286.7107 (pause 0.46) 1287.1717 1369 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1287.1717 And that's part of the reason why 1289.3785 1370 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1289.3785 (pause 0.50) 1289.8826 1371 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1289.8826 those lots are still empty. 1291.4814 1372 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1291.4814 (pause 1.25) 1292.7355 1373 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1292.7355 over there 1293.4028 1374 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1293.4028 (pause 0.11) 1293.5126 1375 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1293.5126 [on-] 1293.7497 1376 LES_int_01 1293.5556 [Yeah.] 1293.9670 1377 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1293.9033 on- 1294.1097 1378 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1294.2194 on, uh, 1294.6321 1379 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1294.6321 (pause 0.10) 1294.7331 1380 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1294.7331 Broome 1295.2994 1381 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1295.2994 (pause 0.20) 1295.5014 1382 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1295.5014 and Delancey and you know, 1297.0687 1383 LES_int_01 1297.2795 Yeah. 1297.5692 1384 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1298.1487 Essex to I guess Norfolk, or thereabout 1300.3614 1385 LES_int_01 1300.4624 [Yeah.] 1300.7781 1386 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1300.4927 [Y-] 1300.6922 1387 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1300.8663 That's about [it right?] 1301.6039 1388 LES_int_01 1301.2391 [That's about right.] 1301.8449 1389 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1302.3048 And 1302.6121 1390 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1302.6121 (pause 0.19) 1302.8009 1391 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1302.8009 And 1302.9941 1392 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1302.9941 (pause 0.20) 1303.1928 1393 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1303.1928 a- i- i- as I see it, 1304.6679 1394 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1304.6679 (pause 0.12) 1304.7908 1395 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1304.7908 and I read it, 1305.4318 1396 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1305.4318 (pause 0.81) 1306.2425 1397 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1306.2425 It's because guys like Sheldon Silver, and- and 1308.8810 1398 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1308.8810 (pause 0.18) 1309.0567 1399 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1309.0567 and, and his cohorts 1310.4484 1400 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1310.4484 (pause 0.42) 1310.8698 1401 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1310.8698 they really don't care 1311.7947 1402 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1311.7947 (pause 0.65) 1312.4400 1403 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1312.4400 about us. 1313.1688 1404 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1313.1688 (pause 0.45) 1313.6166 1405 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1313.6166 And then you have 1314.4332 1406 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1314.4332 (pause 0.10) 1314.5298 1407 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1314.5298 the- the- there is another 1315.7547 1408 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1315.7547 (pause 0.38) 1316.1323 1409 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1316.1323 effort 1316.4352 1410 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1316.4352 (pause 0.26) 1316.6942 1411 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1316.6942 to 1316.9577 1412 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1316.9577 (pause 0.78) 1317.7420 1413 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1317.7420 to create 1318.2732 1414 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1318.2732 (pause 0.93) 1319.2040 1415 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1319.2040 in fact it's i- 1320.0090 1416 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1320.0090 (pause 0.16) 1320.1715 1417 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1320.1715 it's not even so subtle. 1321.5484 1418 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1321.5484 (pause 0.53) 1322.0752 1419 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1322.0752 i- they 1322.4572 1420 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1322.4572 (pause 0.19) 1322.6459 1421 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1322.6459 i- 1322.8259 1422 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1322.8259 (pause 0.10) 1322.9225 1423 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1322.9225 i- 1323.1025 1424 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1323.1025 (pause 0.50) 1323.5986 1425 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1323.5986 this area's being marketed as the- 1325.8597 1426 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1325.8597 (pause 0.13) 1325.9871 1427 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1325.9871 the 1326.2856 1428 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1326.2856 (pause 0.30) 1326.5878 1429 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1326.5878 cradle of American Jewry. 1328.2832 1430 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1328.2832 (pause 0.12) 1328.4061 1431 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1328.4061 Okay. 1328.8056 1432 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1328.8056 (pause 0.23) 1329.0383 1433 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1329.0383 I mean, that's alright, but 1330.1403 1434 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1330.1403 (pause 0.42) 1330.5592 1435 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1330.5592 as long as you 1331.2485 1436 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1331.2485 (pause 0.20) 1331.4460 1437 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1331.4460 realize that 1332.0548 1438 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1332.0548 (pause 0.89) 1332.9460 1439 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1332.9460 there are a lot different kinds of people rocking that cradle. 1334.8645 1440 LES_int_01 1335.3211 [] 1336.4275 1441 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1335.7777 [A-] 1335.9972 1442 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1335.9972 (pause 0.18) 1336.1772 1443 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1336.1772 [And] 1336.6909 1444 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1336.9851 [that] 1337.4680 1445 LES_int_01 1337.2579 [] 1337.4855 1446 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1337.7299 and b- b- but, the thing of it is, is that 1340.2938 1447 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1340.2938 (pause 0.97) 1341.2597 1448 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1341.2597 they're trying to control 1342.8446 1449 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1342.8446 (pause 0.10) 1342.9412 1450 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1342.9412 the character 1343.9187 1451 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1343.9187 (pause 0.13) 1344.0504 1452 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1344.0504 of the neighborhood. 1344.8889 1453 LES_int_01 1344.8743 Mm. 1345.3372 1454 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1345.3411 See, one of the founders of this church, 1347.3650 1455 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1347.3650 (pause 0.54) 1347.9050 1456 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1347.9050 James P. Allaire, 1348.9412 1457 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1348.9412 (pause 0.35) 1349.2924 1458 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1349.2924 built the very first tenement 1350.6273 1459 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1350.6273 (pause 0.56) 1351.1893 1460 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1351.1893 down here in Lower Manhattan. 1352.5415 1461 LES_int_01 1352.7159 Okay. 1353.1665 1462 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1353.2512 Okay. 1353.5849 1463 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1353.5849 (pause 0.51) 1354.0941 1464 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1354.0941 He rented it to whoever could pay the eight dollars or so. 1357.2112 1465 LES_int_01 1357.5449 Yeah. 1357.7776 1466 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1357.7776 You know, for a three hundred and seventy five dollar square- a three hundred seventy five 1360.9239 1467 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1361.2400 square foot 1362.0566 1468 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1362.0566 (pause 0.12) 1362.1795 1469 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1362.1795 apartment, that was so small, you had to come outside to change your mind, [right?] 1365.4356 1470 LES_int_01 1365.1255 [] 1366.7104 1471 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1365.9975 [And-] 1366.2610 1472 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1366.2610 (pause 0.12) 1366.3839 1473 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1366.3839 [And] it was a bathroom in the hallway. 1367.9205 1474 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1368.2278 Now, that [same] space, that same amount of space if it still exists, 1371.7065 1475 LES_int_01 1368.6800 [Yeah.] 1368.9873 1476 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1372.0336 has been redone, redecorated, bathrooms moved inside, and suddenly you're gonna cost fifteen hundred dollars a month. 1377.2616 1477 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1377.2616 (pause 0.61) 1377.8719 1478 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1377.8719 So, 1378.2143 1479 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1378.2143 (pause 0.44) 1378.6534 1480 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1378.6534 you could see how it's leap-frogged over a substantial population of people who would like to stay in the neighborhood and rent that kind of space, they [can't.] 1385.7465 1481 LES_int_01 1385.5493 [Yeah.] 1385.7908 1482 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1386.5854 They really can't. 1387.1123 1483 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1387.1123 (pause 0.30) 1387.4108 1484 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1387.4108 And so, tha- tha- those, 1388.5435 1485 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1388.5435 (pause 0.12) 1388.6664 1486 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1388.6664 those lots over there are being- the Seward Park thing. 1391.6260 1487 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1391.6260 (pause 0.61) 1392.2407 1488 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1392.2407 It- it- 1392.6035 1489 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1392.6035 (pause 0.08) 1392.6826 1490 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1392.6826 they're being fought over vigorously, and have been for years, 1395.3431 1491 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1395.3431 (pause 0.26) 1395.6021 1492 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1395.6021 because as I understand it, and I don't really know 1397.8631 1493 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1397.8631 (pause 0.20) 1398.0607 1494 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1398.0607 all the 1398.6973 1495 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1398.6973 (pause 0.18) 1398.8762 1496 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1398.8762 you know 1399.2010 1497 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1399.2010 (pause 0.46) 1399.6593 1498 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1399.6593 specifics 1400.4276 1499 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1400.4276 (pause 0.91) 1401.3348 1500 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1401.3348 a- as I understand it is that 1402.9812 1501 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1402.9812 (pause 0.29) 1403.2753 1502 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1403.2753 the- there are 1403.7758 1503 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1403.7758 (pause 0.34) 1404.1183 1504 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1404.1183 a certain 1404.6583 1505 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1404.6583 (pause 0.81) 1405.4661 1506 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1405.4661 percentage of the housing 1406.8710 1507 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1406.8710 (pause 0.43) 1407.2997 1508 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1407.2997 to be developed there 1408.2304 1509 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1408.2304 (pause 0.46) 1408.6870 1510 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1408.6870 is supposed to be designated 1409.9953 1511 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1409.9953 (pause 0.42) 1410.4168 1512 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1410.4168 as 1411.0227 1513 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1411.0227 (pause 1.24) 1412.2614 1514 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1412.2614 below 1412.8051 1515 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1412.8051 (pause 0.16) 1412.9632 1516 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1412.9632 market rate income. 1413.8046 1517 LES_int_01 1414.0241 Right. 1414.3314 1518 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1414.4983 Okay. 1414.8363 1519 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1414.8363 (pause 0.79) 1415.6266 1520 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1415.6266 That's a game. 1416.4958 1521 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1416.4958 (pause 0.46) 1416.9524 1522 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1416.9524 I mean, that's the biggest 1418.1598 1523 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1418.1598 (pause 0.17) 1418.3310 1524 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1418.3310 charade 1419.0319 1525 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1419.0319 (pause 0.40) 1419.4314 1526 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1419.4314 since, I don't know, since Cheez-its. 1421.6310 1527 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1421.6310 (pause 0.50) 1422.1358 1528 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1422.1358 A- y- you- 1422.8339 1529 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1422.8339 (pause 0.19) 1423.0271 1530 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1423.0271 you know, y- 1423.4793 1531 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1423.4793 (pause 0.13) 1423.6110 1532 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1423.6110 Look take Harlem, for example. 1425.4131 1533 LES_int_01 1425.4131 Mm. 1425.7205 1534 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1427.9902 You've got 1428.4424 1535 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1428.4424 (pause 0.65) 1429.0967 1536 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1429.0967 a situation where Harlem is being gentrified rapidly. You've got churches buying property and buildings and things like that, and they 1434.9702 1537 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1434.9702 (pause 0.27) 1435.2360 1538 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1435.2360 and they're rationalizing, like, oh yeah, we're gonna put a lot of 1437.9031 1539 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1437.9031 (pause 0.16) 1438.0617 1540 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1438.0617 e- lower income housing, like 1439.8898 1541 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1439.8898 (pause 0.45) 1440.3374 1542 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1440.3374 okay. 1440.6965 1543 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1440.6965 (pause 0.73) 1441.4239 1544 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1441.4239 But the low 1442.0600 1545 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1442.0600 (pause 0.11) 1442.1673 1546 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1442.1673 income housing 1443.2024 1547 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1443.2024 (pause 1.62) 1444.8251 1548 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1444.8251 is pegged 1445.7530 1549 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1445.7530 (pause 1.59) 1447.3469 1550 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1447.3469 to 1447.7246 1551 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1447.7246 (pause 0.78) 1448.5033 1552 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1448.5033 a median income- i- is only a- like a small t- 1451.5529 1553 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1451.5529 (pause 0.32) 1451.8734 1554 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1451.8734 ten, fifteen, twenty percent max, 1453.5195 1555 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1453.5195 (pause 0.61) 1454.1303 1556 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1454.1303 pegged to a median income of like 1456.3312 1557 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1456.3312 (pause 0.27) 1456.6016 1558 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1456.6016 forty thousand dollars 1458.2931 1559 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1458.2931 (pause 0.49) 1458.7827 1560 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1458.7827 forty-five 1459.3796 1561 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1459.3796 (pause 0.48) 1459.8645 1562 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1459.8645 and the median income in Harlem is like fifteen thousand dollars. 1463.7903 1563 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1463.7903 (pause 0.32) 1464.1120 1564 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1464.1120 So, 1464.5270 1565 LES_int_01 1465.0959 Yeah. 1465.4223 1566 LES_int_01 1465.4223 (pause 0.71) 1466.1310 1567 LES_int_01 1466.1310 Those definitions are very tricky, but 1467.8707 1568 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1468.7510 So, [wha- wha- what does that mean?] 1470.0865 1569 LES_int_01 1468.9152 [Low, affordable, me- moderate, what do they mean? Yeah.] 1472.7246 1570 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1470.9052 [Yeah.] 1471.3995 1571 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1471.3995 (pause 0.36) 1471.7585 1572 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1471.7585 [Exactly.] 1472.3927 1573 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1472.9429 And 1473.3253 1574 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1473.3253 (pause 0.11) 1473.4372 1575 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1473.4372 and- and- it's re- very frustrating to me 1475.5412 1576 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1475.5412 (pause 0.50) 1476.0448 1577 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1476.0448 because I recall having gone to a meeting a couple of years ago over at that- 1479.3113 1578 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1479.3113 (pause 0.72) 1480.0341 1579 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1480.0341 that um, 1480.6309 1580 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1480.6309 (pause 0.18) 1480.8128 1581 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1480.8128 building that the Chinese have over there on Houston Street 1484.0057 1582 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1484.0057 (pause 1.22) 1485.2274 1583 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1485.2274 Um. 1485.6564 1584 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1485.6564 (pause 1.64) 1487.2966 1585 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1487.2966 The- I think it's 1487.9960 1586 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1487.9960 (pause 0.25) 1488.2478 1587 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1488.2478 near Christy, or one of those. They- they have a- like a f- 1490.2342 1588 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1490.2342 (pause 0.11) 1490.3461 1589 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1490.3461 a community center facility. 1491.8895 1590 LES_int_01 1491.8895 Okay. 1492.2475 1591 LES_int_01 1492.2475 (pause 0.15) 1492.4004 1592 LES_int_01 1492.4004 Mm-hm. 1492.7269 1593 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1492.6496 And 1493.0308 1594 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1493.6836 i- i- this whole question, you know, of- 1495.8285 1595 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1495.8285 (pause 0.46) 1496.2855 1596 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1496.2855 of um, 1497.0083 1597 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1497.0083 (pause 0.88) 1497.8895 1598 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1497.8895 of restoration and preservation 1499.6183 1599 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1499.6183 (pause 0.10) 1499.7209 1600 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1499.7209 was being argued vigorously there. 1501.6793 1601 LES_int_01 1501.9218 [Mm-hm.] 1502.3275 1602 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1502.0057 [And they invited] developers. 1503.4326 1603 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1503.6377 And i- the guys were re- oh look, there's no money in low income housing, you know, so it- 1507.6767 1604 LES_int_01 1507.2990 [Right.] 1507.6767 1605 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1508.0683 That- that was their whole thing, we wanna make money, we have to make a living, and so. 1511.7649 1606 LES_int_01 1512.4037 Right. 1512.6042 1607 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1512.9132 The- and, and I think that that's- 1514.3808 1608 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1514.3808 (pause 0.42) 1514.7993 1609 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1514.7993 that's what 1515.2469 1610 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1515.2469 (pause 0.62) 1515.8717 1611 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1515.8717 what- what we're facing 1517.1540 1612 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1517.1540 (pause 0.29) 1517.4478 1613 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1517.4478 with that. 1517.8861 1614 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1517.8861 (pause 0.33) 1518.2172 1615 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1518.2172 I 1518.4503 1616 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1518.4503 (pause 0.27) 1518.7161 1617 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1518.7161 quite honestly 1519.7792 1618 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1519.7792 (pause 1.37) 1521.1443 1619 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1521.1443 I'm not so sanguine that 1522.4826 1620 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1522.4826 (pause 0.27) 1522.7484 1621 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1522.7484 w- 1522.8976 1622 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1522.8976 (pause 0.34) 1523.2380 1623 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1523.2380 we can really win that battle. 1524.4690 1624 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1524.4690 (pause 1.38) 1525.8492 1625 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1525.8492 I think you have to fight it. 1526.9858 1626 LES_int_01 1527.3122 Right. 1527.8951 1627 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1527.9790 You know, you don't have an option. 1529.0002 1628 LES_int_01 1529.3825 Yeah. 1529.6250 1629 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1530.3617 But, I- I'm just a- 1531.6021 1630 LES_int_01 1531.6907 How do you see the battle in what, 1533.5958 1631 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1535.2371 Well, I just 1535.7128 1632 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1535.7128 (pause 0.26) 1535.9692 1633 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1535.9692 [uh I see-] I see 1537.2702 1634 LES_int_01 1535.9692 [/unintelligible/.] 1536.7293 1635 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1537.4194 the 1537.6934 1636 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1537.6934 (pause 0.16) 1537.8519 1637 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1537.8519 the developers 1538.8032 1638 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1538.8032 (pause 0.18) 1538.9803 1639 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1538.9803 being rich enough to prevail. 1541.2418 1640 LES_int_01 1541.5391 Mm. 1541.9681 1641 LES_int_01 1541.9681 (pause 0.62) 1542.5929 1642 LES_int_01 1542.5929 Mm-hm. 1542.9147 1643 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1543.0266 You know 1543.3250 1644 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1543.3250 (pause 0.11) 1543.4323 1645 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1543.4323 The. 1543.5768 1646 LES_int_01 1543.5768 Yeah. 1543.9685 1647 LES_int_01 1543.9685 (pause 0.21) 1544.1830 1648 LES_int_01 1544.1830 Yeah. 1544.4721 1649 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1544.9617 [The- That's what] it really boils down to. 1547.0040 1650 LES_int_01 1545.0864 [Um.] 1545.5195 1651 LES_int_01 1545.5195 (pause 1.20) 1546.7173 1652 LES_int_01 1546.7173 [/Huh/.] 1547.2039 1653 LES_int_01 1548.0050 If it were up to you, 1549.0409 1654 LES_int_01 1549.0409 (pause 0.16) 1549.2041 1655 LES_int_01 1549.2041 what'd you l- what would you like to see 1550.5097 1656 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1550.6731 If [it were up to me,] I'd like to see r- 1552.9113 1657 LES_int_01 1550.8408 [developed there?] 1551.5682 1658 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1553.0698 quite frankly, 1553.7459 1659 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1553.7459 (pause 0.14) 1553.8858 1660 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1553.8858 a mixture, 1554.7660 1661 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1554.7660 (pause 0.54) 1555.3069 1662 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1555.3069 given all of these modern 1556.9448 1663 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1556.9448 (pause 0.68) 1557.6209 1664 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1557.6209 co-op 1557.9707 1665 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1557.9707 (pause 0.35) 1558.3250 1666 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1558.3250 type buildings [going,] 1559.5333 1667 LES_int_01 1559.1690 [Yeah.] 1559.6908 1668 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1559.7286 And, [given a hotel] 1561.2720 1669 LES_int_01 1560.1436 [/inaudible/] 1560.8850 1670 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1561.5424 on every block from Essex 1563.4230 1671 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1563.4230 (pause 0.33) 1563.7534 1672 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1563.7534 back up to Allen, 1564.7694 1673 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1564.7694 (pause 0.14) 1564.9139 1674 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1564.9139 you know, 1565.1517 1675 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1565.1517 (pause 0.39) 1565.5426 1676 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1565.5426 it's just ridiculous. 1566.5731 1677 LES_int_01 1566.4472 It's insane. 1567.2690 1678 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1567.5756 I would like to see 1568.6693 1679 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1568.6693 (pause 0.43) 1569.0983 1680 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1569.0983 middle 1569.6486 1681 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1569.6486 (pause 0.31) 1569.9610 1682 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1569.9610 to lower 1570.6418 1683 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1570.6418 (pause 0.24) 1570.8796 1684 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1570.8796 income [housing] develop. 1572.2750 1685 LES_int_01 1571.4544 [Okay. 1571.7714 1686 LES_int_01 1572.3403 Yeah. 1572.5828 1687 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1572.7739 I- I think enough already 1574.1670 1688 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1574.1670 (pause 0.40) 1574.5633 1689 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1574.5633 with this 1574.9457 1690 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1574.9457 (pause 0.13) 1575.0716 1691 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1575.0716 upper income 1575.8550 1692 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1575.8550 (pause 0.43) 1576.2840 1693 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1576.2840 enough already with the threats about gentrifying certain of the public housing. Cause we know the city wants out of the public housing business. 1582.6896 1694 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1582.6896 (pause 0.55) 1583.2398 1695 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1583.2398 I said, it's getting to be quite a miasma here 1586.2436 1696 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1586.2436 (pause 0.33) 1586.5747 1697 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1586.5747 of- 1586.9104 1698 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1586.9104 (pause 0.12) 1587.0270 1699 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1587.0270 of 1587.1715 1700 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1587.1715 (pause 0.52) 1587.6938 1701 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1587.6938 this community 1588.6497 1702 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1588.6497 (pause 0.45) 1589.1006 1703 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1589.1006 being 1589.6648 1704 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1589.6648 (pause 0.35) 1590.0145 1705 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1590.0145 sort of 1590.4976 1706 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1590.4976 (pause 0.11) 1590.6095 1707 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1590.6095 taken over, slowly but surely 1592.7492 1708 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1592.7492 (pause 0.35) 1593.0943 1709 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1593.0943 by those persons who find it 1594.7305 1710 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1594.7305 (pause 0.19) 1594.9181 1711 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1594.9181 in their best interest to work close to the financial district. 1597.8360 1712 LES_int_01 1598.6846 Yeah. 1598.9877 1713 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1599.4820 You know. 1599.7291 1714 LES_int_01 1599.8923 Yeah. 1600.1840 1715 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1600.7130 And 1601.0907 1716 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1601.0907 (pause 0.20) 1601.2865 1717 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1601.2865 I say 1601.9615 1718 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1601.9615 (pause 1.31) 1603.2671 1719 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1603.2671 that 1603.6681 1720 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1603.6681 (pause 0.31) 1603.9805 1721 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1603.9805 be- 1604.1950 1722 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1604.1950 (pause 0.62) 1604.8105 1723 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1604.8105 because- 1605.7058 1724 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1605.7058 (pause 1.98) 1607.6817 1725 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1607.6817 For 1608.1153 1726 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1608.1153 (pause 0.83) 1608.9500 1727 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1608.9500 a couple a hundred years now 1610.5954 1728 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1610.5954 (pause 1.85) 1612.4466 1729 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1612.4466 this has been a real neighborhood. 1613.9376 1730 LES_int_01 1614.3386 Yeah. 1614.5531 1731 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1615.2898 You know. 1615.6768 1732 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1615.6768 (pause 0.54) 1616.2177 1733 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1616.2177 And- and the people who have made it thus 1618.9502 1734 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1618.9502 (pause 1.13) 1620.0774 1735 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1620.0774 should have some entitlement 1621.4017 1736 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1621.4017 (pause 0.12) 1621.5229 1737 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1621.5229 for their progeny, for their children. 1623.9383 1738 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1623.9383 (pause 0.49) 1624.4279 1739 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1624.4279 Their children ought to be able to- 1626.2546 1740 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1626.2546 (pause 0.38) 1626.6323 1741 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1626.6323 to 1626.9121 1742 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1626.9121 (pause 1.85) 1628.7633 1743 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1628.7633 to feel the vibrancy of the neighborhood when they walk through the streets [here.] 1632.6310 1744 LES_int_01 1632.3605 [Yeah.] 1632.6310 1745 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1632.8035 They- they [should be able to] feel like 1633.8946 1746 LES_int_01 1633.1579 [So.] 1633.5309 1747 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1634.0765 I belong here. 1634.8272 1748 LES_int_01 1635.0137 So, for you, if there were housing built on that /??/ in the neighborhood, 1638.9174 1749 LES_int_01 1638.9174 (pause 0.44) 1639.3604 1750 LES_int_01 1639.3604 do you feel that- 1640.2416 1751 LES_int_01 1640.2416 (pause 0.14) 1640.3862 1752 LES_int_01 1640.3862 that 1640.6986 1753 LES_int_01 1640.6986 (pause 0.56) 1641.2617 1754 LES_int_01 1641.2617 the people who should move in 1642.8564 1755 LES_int_01 1642.8564 (pause 0.37) 1643.2294 1756 LES_int_01 1643.2294 to the new housing sounds like should be 1645.3837 1757 LES_int_01 1645.3837 (pause 0.25) 1645.6355 1758 LES_int_01 1645.6355 local- 1646.2277 1759 LES_int_01 1646.2277 (pause 0.57) 1646.8012 1760 LES_int_01 1646.8012 local residents, or the children of- 1648.6730 1761 LES_int_01 1648.6730 (pause 0.27) 1648.9434 1762 LES_int_01 1648.9434 of other folks, I mean who sho- I guess I'm asking, who should that housing be for? 1652.1770 1763 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1652.5594 Uh. I, you know 1653.5433 1764 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1653.5433 (pause 0.31) 1653.8557 1765 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1653.8557 the 1654.1121 1766 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1654.1121 (pause 1.58) 1655.6917 1767 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1655.6917 I think that the local residents 1657.4356 1768 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1657.4356 (pause 0.19) 1657.6268 1769 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1657.6268 ought to have some 1658.7039 1770 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1658.7039 (pause 0.88) 1659.5841 1771 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1659.5841 priority on a list 1660.7451 1772 LES_int_01 1661.0212 [Hm.] 1661.3482 1773 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1661.0575 [that they] develop 1661.6451 1774 LES_int_01 1661.8237 Yeah. 1662.1699 1775 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1662.2746 but, I don't think it should 1663.2305 1776 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1663.2305 (pause 0.08) 1663.3097 1777 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1663.3097 the- tha- 1663.5942 1778 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1663.5942 (pause 0.12) 1663.7107 1779 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1663.7107 that should mean that 1664.6853 1780 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1664.6853 (pause 0.65) 1665.3381 1781 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1665.3381 people of the same 1666.3098 1782 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1666.3098 (pause 0.60) 1666.9067 1783 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1666.9067 income strata 1667.8253 1784 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1667.8253 (pause 0.54) 1668.3662 1785 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1668.3662 should be precluded from having 1669.9737 1786 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1669.9737 (pause 0.19) 1670.1649 1787 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1670.1649 to- moving into [the neighborhood.] 1671.5677 1788 LES_int_01 1670.9196 [Right.] 1671.2094 1789 LES_int_01 1671.6244 [Right.] 1671.9275 1790 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1673.0932 Do you know what I mean 1674.2309 1791 LES_int_01 1673.5976 [Yeah.] 1673.9676 1792 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1674.3335 let's keep e- turning it over, that's fine, that's how it always has been. 1677.4619 1793 LES_int_01 1677.6170 Right. 1677.9574 1794 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1678.0646 You know. 1678.3957 1795 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1678.3957 (pause 0.29) 1678.6895 1796 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1678.6895 But I think that 1679.6369 1797 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1679.6369 (pause 0.15) 1679.7861 1798 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1679.7861 i- if there are locals who are really in need of housing an- and who are 1683.8055 1799 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1683.8055 (pause 0.28) 1684.0900 1800 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1684.0900 deserving of the improved housing situation, 1686.9052 1801 LES_int_01 1686.9052 Yeah. 1687.1990 1802 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1687.2922 give them some priority. 1688.2994 1803 LES_int_01 1688.4626 Right. 1688.6957 1804 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1689.0828 Tha- that's- that's not a problem. 1690.5842 1805 LES_int_01 1690.8034 Yeah. 1691.0179 1806 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1691.1251 You know. 1691.3676 1807 LES_int_01 1691.6054 What do you think about building height? 1693.2502 1808 LES_int_01 1693.2502 (pause 0.76) 1694.0056 1809 LES_int_01 1694.0056 That's something [people are] opinionated [about.] 1696.2252 1810 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1694.6211 [Well,] 1694.9289 1811 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1694.9289 (pause 1.20) 1696.1273 1812 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1696.1273 [That's] something that's bothering me these [days.] 1697.9878 1813 LES_int_01 1697.7928 [Yeah.] 1698.1611 1814 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1698.4456 Uh, but I 1699.1263 1815 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1699.1263 (pause 0.21) 1699.3315 1816 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1699.3315 you know 1699.7185 1817 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1699.7185 (pause 0.13) 1699.8444 1818 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1699.8444 I- I can deal, I live in a building that's twenty one stories, and I hardly know it because it's not 1704.2687 1819 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1704.2687 (pause 0.49) 1704.7629 1820 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1704.7629 So imposing, and it's right on the river, you know, 1706.6739 1821 LES_int_01 1706.6739 Is it the East River, [/inaudible/] 1708.3805 1822 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1706.9397 [The s-] 1707.1216 1823 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1707.1216 (pause 0.64) 1707.7604 1824 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1707.7604 [Yeah, I live in the East River.] 1708.7918 1825 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1709.2618 Um. 1709.5509 1826 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1709.5509 (pause 0.37) 1709.9240 1827 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1709.9240 And I- but, I think that's high enough. 1711.6761 1828 LES_int_01 1711.8020 Yeah. 1712.1750 1829 LES_int_01 1712.1750 (pause 1.20) 1713.3733 1830 LES_int_01 1713.3733 So, you wouldn't want to see anything higher than that? 1714.9263 1831 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1714.8562 No. 1715.2199 1832 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1715.5463 No, no, no, na- I think it would, it would 1717.3963 1833 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1717.3963 (pause 0.28) 1717.6807 1834 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1717.6807 change the character. 1718.8837 1835 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1718.8837 (pause 0.38) 1719.2661 1836 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1719.2661 It would make us look like Hong Kong 1720.9354 1837 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1720.9354 (pause 0.52) 1721.4530 1838 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1721.4530 or [Tokyo.] 1722.1851 1839 LES_int_01 1721.6488 [] 1722.6933 1840 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1722.6933 Or- or even Beijing. 1724.3522 1841 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1724.7578 You know, all these 1725.4293 1842 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1725.4293 (pause 0.08) 1725.5086 1843 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1725.5086 a- al- 1725.9189 1844 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1725.9189 (pause 0.17) 1726.0868 1845 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1726.0868 different, well, 1726.6883 1846 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1726.6883 (pause 0.66) 1727.3504 1847 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1727.3504 Malaysia, I mean I [uh,] 1728.8940 1848 LES_int_01 1728.6196 [] 1729.7201 1849 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1729.1021 [I had an office in] Tokyo for thirteen years, 1730.8664 1850 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1731.0763 so I bummed around a lot in Southeast [Asia.] 1733.0028 1851 LES_int_01 1732.8302 [Yeah.] 1733.3105 1852 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1733.4970 And 1733.8794 1853 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1733.8794 (pause 0.40) 1734.2792 1854 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1734.2792 A- And I'm always amazed at the kind of 1736.7413 1855 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1736.7413 (pause 0.34) 1737.0816 1856 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1737.0816 o- of construction 1738.4898 1857 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1738.4898 (pause 0.33) 1738.8162 1858 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1738.8162 that they've built. 1739.3125 1859 LES_int_01 1739.5950 [Yeah.] 1739.8701 1860 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1739.6976 [But,] that was a f- we- 1740.6873 1861 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1741.1864 but the see uh- New York City has the same excuse. 1743.7139 1862 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1743.7139 (pause 0.86) 1744.5765 1863 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1744.5765 Many of those 1745.5604 1864 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1745.5604 (pause 0.31) 1745.8728 1865 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1745.8728 were built 1746.2972 1866 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1746.2972 (pause 0.12) 1746.4177 1867 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1746.4177 because there isn't that much 1747.8958 1868 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1747.8958 (pause 0.15) 1748.0497 1869 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1748.0497 space to build on. 1749.1594 1870 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1749.1594 (pause 0.70) 1749.8635 1871 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1749.8635 So, everything went vertical 1751.1680 1872 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1751.1680 (pause 0.45) 1751.6156 1873 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1751.6156 You know. 1751.9154 1874 LES_int_01 1751.9094 [Yeah.] 1752.3710 1875 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1752.2371 [And] there are all these incredible 1753.4855 1876 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1753.7139 arguments going on 1754.8890 1877 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1754.8890 (pause 0.31) 1755.2014 1878 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1755.2014 i- in this city right now for 1756.6422 1879 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1756.6422 (pause 0.15) 1756.7903 1880 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1756.7903 air rights. 1757.5737 1881 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1757.5737 (pause 0.42) 1757.9980 1882 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1757.9980 [Uh, you're gonna] fight somebody 1759.6393 1883 LES_int_01 1758.0178 [I know.] 1758.5571 1884 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1759.9371 to- 1760.0730 1885 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1760.0730 (pause 0.08) 1760.1569 1886 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1760.1569 about 1760.4693 1887 LES_int_01 1760.3015 [For air.] 1760.8657 1888 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1760.7025 seven million dollars worth of air 1762.3392 1889 LES_int_01 1762.6178 Oh. [It's so crazy.] 1764.1239 1890 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1763.1960 [Is i- it doesn't even make sense.] 1764.7021 1891 LES_int_01 1764.3739 It's mix- it's insane. 1765.5181 1892 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1765.5134 Yeah. 1765.8771 1893 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1766.1289 But, [but] that's [what's happ-] 1767.6117 1894 LES_int_01 1766.3947 [For you] 1766.7444 1895 LES_int_01 1766.7444 (pause 0.54) 1767.2807 1896 LES_int_01 1767.2807 [Buy the air] rights of it. 1768.5472 1897 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1768.6843 That's what's happening 1769.4805 1898 LES_int_01 1769.4805 [I'd um.] 1770.0773 1899 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1769.7696 [Right?] 1770.0773 1900 LES_int_01 1770.2732 Yeah. 1770.6649 1901 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1770.6649 Right, so. 1771.2430 1902 LES_int_01 1771.7886 It's not 1772.2969 1903 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1772.2969 No, I y- I- I - 1773.2854 1904 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1773.5932 [uh. I.] 1774.0921 1905 LES_int_01 1773.5932 [So, do you] di- do you think 1775.0200 1906 LES_int_01 1775.1657 the- though that given the fact that that land, in particular has been vacant for forty years, people fight over it, I mean do you think that there's a possibility for it to- 1783.5275 1907 LES_int_01 1783.5275 (pause 0.47) 1783.9938 1908 LES_int_01 1783.9938 for people to reach a compromise somehow? You know, the fights have been over 1787.2511 1909 LES_int_01 1787.2511 (pause 0.51) 1787.7641 1910 LES_int_01 1787.7641 the type of housing, you know, just what you're saying, [you know.] 1790.1785 1911 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1789.7449 [Yeah.] 1790.1226 1912 LES_int_01 1790.4769 What does affordable mean? Some people want all, some people wanna build luxury 1794.1370 1913 LES_int_01 1794.1370 (pause 0.09) 1794.2258 1914 LES_int_01 1794.2258 condos, and they can't- 1795.3960 1915 LES_int_01 1795.3960 (pause 0.64) 1796.0348 1916 LES_int_01 1796.0348 they can't seem to agree. 1797.1823 1917 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1798.0356 I- I, what I think 1799.2573 1918 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1799.2573 (pause 0.79) 1800.0453 1919 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1800.0453 I- I think 1800.9080 1920 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1800.9080 (pause 0.52) 1801.4255 1921 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1801.4255 it's only gonna be resolved 1803.0877 1922 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1803.0877 (pause 0.85) 1803.9410 1923 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1803.9410 in the same way that Harlem- 1805.2792 1924 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1805.2792 (pause 0.21) 1805.4937 1925 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1805.4937 the Harlem situation [has been resolved.] 1807.2423 1926 LES_int_01 1806.4219 [Hm.] 1806.8602 1927 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1807.3729 In that 1807.9623 1928 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1807.9623 (pause 0.43) 1808.3960 1929 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1808.3960 the poor are really gonna lose. 1809.9161 1930 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1809.9161 (pause 1.28) 1811.1918 1931 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1811.1918 You know. 1811.4669 1932 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1811.4669 (pause 0.48) 1811.9419 1933 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1811.9419 They'll be just enough 1813.1776 1934 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1813.1776 (pause 0.28) 1813.4574 1935 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1813.4574 y- you see, people who are in 1814.5438 1936 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1814.5438 (pause 0.10) 1814.6464 1937 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1814.6464 in- in- who have power, prestige, or money 1816.7798 1938 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1816.7798 (pause 0.36) 1817.1389 1939 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1817.1389 are very reluctant to give it up. 1818.6101 1940 LES_int_01 1818.8597 Mm. 1819.2254 1941 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1819.2303 They'll control the distribution of it. 1821.0768 1942 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1821.0768 (pause 0.38) 1821.4545 1943 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1821.4545 So, a few 1822.5083 1944 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1822.5083 (pause 0.92) 1823.4315 1945 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1823.4315 will have access, [but] 1824.6439 1946 LES_int_01 1824.3583 [Yeah.] 1824.6439 1947 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1824.7978 only a few. 1826.0742 1948 LES_int_01 1826.3400 Yeah. 1826.5825 1949 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1826.7317 You see. 1827.1374 1950 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1827.1374 (pause 0.38) 1827.5151 1951 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1827.5151 Because they're g- the rationalization's gonna be 1829.7859 1952 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1829.7859 (pause 0.78) 1830.5693 1953 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1830.5693 and- and 1831.0449 1954 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1831.0449 (pause 0.22) 1831.2676 1955 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1831.2676 it'll be true in a lot of instances, 1832.7410 1956 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1832.7410 (pause 0.22) 1832.9602 1957 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1832.9602 the- for some people, 1833.9254 1958 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1833.9254 (pause 0.41) 1834.3404 1959 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1834.3404 is that 1834.8067 1960 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1834.8067 (pause 0.84) 1835.6460 1961 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1835.6460 a person isn't gonna wanna pay a million and a half dollars for a condominium or a co-op 1840.9350 1962 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1840.9350 (pause 0.57) 1841.5085 1963 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1841.5085 and live in the same building 1843.2804 1964 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1843.2804 (pause 0.31) 1843.5882 1965 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1843.5882 with somebody 1844.4030 1966 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1844.4030 (pause 0.23) 1844.6362 1967 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1844.6362 who 1845.1211 1968 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1845.1211 (pause 0.73) 1845.8485 1969 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1845.8485 earns less than 1846.7298 1970 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1846.7298 (pause 0.41) 1847.1448 1971 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1847.1448 thirty thousand dollars a year. 1848.4644 1972 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1848.4644 (pause 0.70) 1849.1685 1973 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1849.1685 Well, that's a real snobbish kind of an attitude to have. 1851.9091 1974 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1851.9091 (pause 0.69) 1852.5946 1975 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1852.5946 You know, as if money defines you 1854.3338 1976 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1854.3338 (pause 0.28) 1854.6183 1977 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1854.6183 Well, in this country, it does. 1855.9880 1978 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1855.9880 (pause 0.32) 1856.3051 1979 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1856.3051 In the world, it really does. 1858.0490 1980 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1858.0490 (pause 0.12) 1858.1656 1981 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1858.1656 Uh. You know. 1858.7065 1982 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1858.7065 (pause 0.41) 1859.1215 1983 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1859.1215 E- 1859.3033 1984 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1859.3033 (pause 0.13) 1859.4339 1985 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1859.4339 E- unless you're 1860.4504 1986 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1860.4504 (pause 0.09) 1860.5390 1987 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1860.5390 in a country 1861.2711 1988 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1861.2711 (pause 0.10) 1861.3690 1989 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1861.3690 where 1861.7595 1990 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1861.7595 (pause 0.20) 1861.9600 1991 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1861.9600 there is a- 1862.3890 1992 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1862.3890 (pause 0.93) 1863.3169 1993 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1863.3169 a more humane attitude toward you're fellow 1865.4712 1994 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1865.4712 (pause 0.09) 1865.5598 1995 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1865.5598 men. 1865.9328 1996 LES_int_01 1866.0774 [Mm-hm.] 1866.6062 1997 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1866.1100 [And] that generally 1867.4576 1998 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1867.7968 Doesn't 1868.1279 1999 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1868.1279 (pause 0.44) 1868.5709 2000 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1868.5709 exist 1869.2470 2001 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1869.2470 (pause 0.09) 1869.3356 2002 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1869.3356 these days 1869.9837 2003 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1869.9837 (pause 0.27) 1870.2495 2004 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1870.2495 in 1870.4220 2005 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1870.4220 (pause 0.17) 1870.5899 2006 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1870.5899 to 1870.7811 2007 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1870.7811 (pause 0.20) 1870.9816 2008 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1870.9816 to great a degree 1871.8769 2009 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1871.8769 (pause 0.38) 1872.2592 2010 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1872.2592 in America. 1873.0519 2011 LES_int_01 1873.2291 Right. 1873.5917 2012 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1874.2072 Cause you know. 1874.8320 2013 LES_int_01 1875.1631 Lemme ask you about the Lower East Side as a neighborhood. So, first of all, what, uh, where are the boundaries for you of the Lower East Side? 1881.5351 2014 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1882.3418 The [boundaries?] 1883.2853 2015 LES_int_01 1882.9356 [Well, like] geographic boundaries. 1884.4696 2016 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1885.2903 Well, actually, 1886.3103 2017 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1886.3103 (pause 1.28) 1887.5880 2018 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1887.5880 i- 1887.7605 2019 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1887.7605 (pause 0.27) 1888.0310 2020 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1888.0310 i- the Lower East Side 1889.3552 2021 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1889.3552 (pause 0.12) 1889.4718 2022 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1889.4718 these days, goes from 1891.1644 2023 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1891.1644 (pause 0.54) 1891.7007 2024 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1891.7007 I think Fourteenth Street down to 1893.5413 2025 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1893.5413 (pause 0.09) 1893.6346 2026 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1893.6346 the Brooklyn [Bridge.] 1894.4879 2027 LES_int_01 1894.3480 [Brooklyn] Bridge. Yeah. 1895.2480 2028 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1895.3692 Um, and from the East River, probably over to Broadway. 1898.5069 2029 LES_int_01 1899.1364 Uh-huh. 1899.4302 2030 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1899.7053 Okay. 1900.1658 2031 LES_int_01 1900.1658 Yeah. 1900.5015 2032 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1900.5015 Which is pretty [wide.] 1901.7605 2033 LES_int_01 1901.5364 [That's] a big. Yeah. [Yeah.] 1902.8330 2034 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1902.4692 [Yeah.] 1902.8190 2035 LES_int_01 1903.0987 And there are some people that 1904.3531 2036 LES_int_01 1904.3531 (pause 0.20) 1904.5489 2037 LES_int_01 1904.5489 that view 1905.3509 2038 LES_int_01 1905.3509 (pause 0.14) 1905.4908 2039 LES_int_01 1905.4908 north of Houston Street 1906.7160 2040 LES_int_01 1906.7160 (pause 0.40) 1907.1123 2041 LES_int_01 1907.1123 As a [separate s-] 1908.2921 2042 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1907.5524 [A- a- as a- I do. 1908.8592 2043 LES_int_01 1908.4413 [East Village.] 1909.4817 2044 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1909.0166 [I personally] 1909.7965 2045 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1910.0004 I- I- I see that as East- 1911.5265 2046 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1911.5265 (pause 0.13) 1911.6524 2047 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1911.6524 East [Village.] 1912.4730 2048 LES_int_01 1912.2725 [Yeah.] 1912.5243 2049 LES_int_01 1912.7155 Yeah. 1912.9813 2050 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1913.0186 And- and that's 1914.0386 2051 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1914.0386 (pause 0.12) 1914.1598 2052 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1914.1598 it's not Lower East either. 1915.5680 2053 LES_int_01 1916.1229 [Right. Right.] 1917.5265 2054 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1916.2069 [ You know (laughing) it's neither. 1917.6011 2055 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1917.8435 South of Houston. 1918.8834 2056 LES_int_01 1919.1352 [Mm-hm.] 1919.5781 2057 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1919.3636 E- 1919.5583 2058 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1919.7075 And so, n- you've got all these appellations, you know, Noho and Soho [and] 1923.8529 2059 LES_int_01 1923.7410 [] 1924.9860 2060 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1924.4078 [And everything] else, and everybody's 1926.0153 2061 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1926.1086 desperate to try to find a way to- to- 1928.2675 2062 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1928.2675 (pause 0.15) 1928.4214 2063 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1928.4214 to 1928.6871 2064 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1928.6871 (pause 0.27) 1928.9529 2065 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1928.9529 spike the value of real estate. 1930.9860 2066 LES_int_01 1931.3438 Oh, right. 1931.8195 2067 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1931.9220 You know. 1932.2718 2068 LES_int_01 1932.5469 Right. 1932.8546 2069 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1933.0225 So. 1933.2976 2070 LES_int_01 1933.4002 So, uh, so if we have 1934.9343 2071 LES_int_01 1934.9343 (pause 0.15) 1935.0835 2072 LES_int_01 1935.0835 these boundaries for the Lower East side, um, 1937.4056 2073 LES_int_01 1937.4056 (pause 0.22) 1937.6248 2074 LES_int_01 1937.6248 who makes up 1938.1354 2075 LES_int_01 1938.1354 (pause 0.20) 1938.3313 2076 LES_int_01 1938.3313 the Lower East Side community, is it everybody who lives within those streets? 1942.6038 2077 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1945.7442 I think it probably should be everybody who lives and works 1948.2295 2078 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1948.2295 (pause 0.31) 1948.5419 2079 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1948.5419 within [those boundaries. Yeah.] 1950.0232 2080 LES_int_01 1948.8574 [Lives and works. Yeah.] 1950.0465 2081 LES_int_01 1950.1630 Well, I guess I, I guess I should ask 1951.7781 2082 LES_int_01 1951.7781 (pause 0.49) 1952.2724 2083 LES_int_01 1952.2724 how you define community, right? Like what does it mean to be a part of a community? 1956.6555 2084 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1957.8294 Well, in New York, that's a very funny thing. 1959.8392 2085 LES_int_01 1960.0630 Yeah. 1960.3288 2086 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1960.4733 You know. 1960.8137 2087 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1960.8137 (pause 0.44) 1961.2567 2088 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1961.2567 Um. 1961.6717 2089 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1961.6717 (pause 0.92) 1962.5903 2090 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1962.5903 I- I think that- 1963.4564 2091 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1963.4564 (pause 0.21) 1963.6662 2092 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1963.6662 that 1963.9040 2093 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1963.9040 (pause 0.28) 1964.1838 2094 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1964.1838 the- the only definition that is universally applicable 1967.2520 2095 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1967.2520 (pause 0.46) 1967.7136 2096 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1967.7136 is that you live there. 1969.1731 2097 LES_int_01 1969.5217 Mm-hm. [Mm-hm.] 1970.2071 2098 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1969.8714 [Okay.] 1970.2071 2099 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1970.6454 But, a lot of people live 1971.5221 2100 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1971.5221 (pause 0.19) 1971.7086 2101 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1971.7086 in what we call 1972.4873 2102 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1972.4873 (pause 0.15) 1972.6365 2103 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1972.6365 New York style. 1973.7696 2104 LES_int_01 1974.5763 [ What's that?] 1975.9180 2105 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1975.0659 [You know, and] and it's very important. 1976.7667 2106 LES_int_01 1977.0418 [Yeah.] 1977.3524 2107 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1977.1490 [Um] in in other words, that means that 1979.4292 2108 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1980.2126 I can s- you can- you and I can live on the same floor in an apartment building, and I'll acknowledge your presence in the morning, and 1985.6017 2109 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1985.6017 (pause 0.12) 1985.7230 2110 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1985.7230 you know, say good morning, it's like 1986.6089 2111 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1986.6089 (pause 0.26) 1986.8700 2112 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1986.8700 but I don't want anything to do with you 1988.4741 2113 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1988.4741 (pause 0.26) 1988.7352 2114 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1988.7352 I don't wanna go in your apartment 1990.0735 2115 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1990.0735 (pause 0.17) 1990.2460 2116 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1990.2460 [unnecessarily,] or you- have you in mine. 1992.6334 2117 LES_int_01 1990.2460 [Yeah.] 1990.5538 2118 LES_int_01 1992.6334 Yeah. 1992.9738 2119 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1993.1976 You know? 1993.5147 2120 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1993.5147 (pause 0.28) 1993.7933 2121 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1993.7933 And- and- so tha- that's something that we've discovered here that's changed the character of ministry. 1998.5495 2122 LES_int_01 1998.8805 Mm. 1999.4448 2123 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1999.5147 Okay. 1999.9192 2124 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 1999.9192 (pause 0.22) 2000.1430 2125 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2000.1430 Whereas before, 2001.0150 2126 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2001.0150 (pause 0.42) 2001.4393 2127 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2001.4393 people who were doing ministry 2002.8429 2128 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2002.8429 (pause 0.34) 2003.1786 2129 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2003.1786 you had access o- 2004.2044 2130 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2004.2044 (pause 0.21) 2004.4185 2131 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2004.4185 you would just visit every Sunday after church, you would knock on doors, and 2007.6473 2132 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2007.6473 (pause 0.14) 2007.7918 2133 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2007.7918 cadge your dinner or something, you know? 2009.1347 2134 LES_int_01 2009.2327 Yeah. 2009.5264 2135 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2009.5310 2009.9344 2136 LES_int_01 2010.1279 Yeah. 2010.3797 2137 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2010.3797 But, but now, 2011.4196 2138 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2011.9791 um. 2012.3407 2139 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2012.3407 (pause 0.49) 2012.8350 2140 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2012.8350 A person's home is really a sanctuary. 2015.1618 2141 LES_int_01 2015.4369 Mm. 2015.9964 2142 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2016.2995 You know, it's where they go 2017.7590 2143 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2017.7590 (pause 0.13) 2017.8849 2144 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2017.8849 to get away from the vicissitudes of- 2019.6410 2145 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2019.6410 (pause 0.28) 2019.9161 2146 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2019.9161 of 2020.1912 2147 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2020.1912 (pause 0.23) 2020.4244 2148 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2020.4244 the city and the neighborhood 2021.8046 2149 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2021.8046 (pause 0.13) 2021.9305 2150 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2021.9305 [in a] lot of instances. 2023.1522 2151 LES_int_01 2021.9305 [Right.] 2022.3082 2152 LES_int_01 2023.1522 Yeah. 2023.5287 2153 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2023.7152 You know. 2023.9297 2154 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2023.9297 (pause 0.18) 2024.1116 2155 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2024.1116 So, that's why I say, 2025.0022 2156 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2025.0022 (pause 0.26) 2025.2586 2157 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2025.2586 l- people have adopted this whole thing of living for years 2028.7045 2158 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2028.7045 (pause 0.23) 2028.9377 2159 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2028.9377 adjacent to somebody and not really knowing them well. 2031.4358 2160 LES_int_01 2031.6223 Yeah. 2031.8881 2161 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2032.6109 You know. 2032.8813 2162 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2032.8813 (pause 0.24) 2033.1191 2163 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2033.1191 Which is okay, I- I- I don't see anything wrong with that. 2035.9527 2164 LES_int_01 2036.0646 No. 2036.2884 2165 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2036.6848 But so- so that- but that does 2038.4742 2166 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2038.4742 (pause 0.83) 2039.3088 2167 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2039.3088 in my judgement 2040.1622 2168 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2040.1622 (pause 0.49) 2040.6564 2169 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2040.6564 create a definition of 2041.8548 2170 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2041.8548 (pause 0.21) 2042.0693 2171 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2042.0693 who live- of the ne- who's in the neighborhood. 2044.2830 2172 LES_int_01 2044.7167 [Right.] 2045.0384 2173 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2044.8146 [Just] by virtue of [presence.] 2046.2647 2174 LES_int_01 2046.1715 [Right,] right. 2046.8709 2175 LES_int_01 2047.2947 Ho- 2047.4346 2176 LES_int_01 2047.4346 (pause 0.14) 2047.5745 2177 LES_int_01 2047.5745 Um, how does the African American community in the Lower East Side fit into the larger 2052.5917 2178 LES_int_01 2052.5917 (pause 0.49) 2053.0855 2179 LES_int_01 2053.0855 community? 2053.7710 2180 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2054.4611 Well. 2054.8668 2181 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2054.8668 (pause 1.78) 2056.6468 2182 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2056.6468 You know, it's always been 2058.0504 2183 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2058.0504 (pause 1.62) 2059.6731 2184 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2059.6731 a difficult thing. 2060.5497 2185 LES_int_01 2061.4077 Really? 2061.7294 2186 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2063.7146 So, you're starting with the fact that 2065.4166 2187 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2065.4166 (pause 2.13) 2067.5476 2188 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2067.5476 the African American community was heterogeneous from s- let's just say 2070.9783 2189 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2070.9783 (pause 0.70) 2071.6777 2190 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2071.6777 early nineteenth century. 2072.6942 2191 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2072.6942 (pause 0.41) 2073.0999 2192 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2073.0999 Some were enslaved, 2074.1631 2193 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2074.1631 (pause 0.21) 2074.3682 2194 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2074.3682 some were free, 2075.1504 2195 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2075.1504 (pause 0.48) 2075.6307 2196 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2075.6307 some were very poor. Most. 2077.2254 2197 LES_int_01 2077.5285 Mm. 2077.7756 2198 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2077.8456 But, they were, for example, 2079.2445 2199 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2079.2445 (pause 0.30) 2079.5429 2200 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2079.5429 the- they were 2080.0558 2201 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2080.0558 (pause 0.43) 2080.4895 2202 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2080.4895 African Americans who owned 2082.0923 2203 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2082.0923 (pause 0.43) 2082.5260 2204 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2082.5260 farmland. Viable farmland 2084.5357 2205 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2084.5357 (pause 0.31) 2084.8435 2206 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2084.8435 from Chatham Square up to Aster Place, along the Bowery. 2087.6121 2207 LES_int_01 2087.6867 Mm-hm. 2087.9571 2208 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2087.9571 They were- they owned businesses in the West Village, a- you know, in Greenwich Village and places like [that.] 2092.8162 2209 LES_int_01 2092.6543 [Uh-huh.] 2093.1613 2210 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2093.2406 And, a- 2093.7861 2211 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2093.7861 (pause 0.37) 2094.1592 2212 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2094.1592 and so a- what- I guess what I'm saying is that they- they- 2096.2714 2213 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2096.2714 (pause 0.19) 2096.4626 2214 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2096.4626 always run 2097.4838 2215 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2097.4838 (pause 0.17) 2097.6517 2216 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2097.6517 the- 2097.8615 2217 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2097.8615 (pause 0.22) 2098.0849 2218 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2098.0849 the whole 2098.5559 2219 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2098.5559 (pause 0.18) 2098.7331 2220 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2098.7331 gamut of 2099.2040 2221 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2099.2040 (pause 0.34) 2099.5398 2222 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2099.5398 this economic scale 2100.6588 2223 LES_int_01 2100.7288 [Okay.] 2101.0226 2224 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2100.9386 [from] enslaved to free, from poor 2103.0043 2225 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2103.2689 to wealthy. 2103.9077 2226 LES_int_01 2104.0523 Right. 2104.2994 2227 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2104.2994 Okay. 2104.6912 2228 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2105.6377 The problem has been, and then, this is the problem for persons of color 2109.4591 2229 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2109.4591 (pause 0.33) 2109.7901 2230 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2109.7901 almost everywhere. 2110.6321 2231 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2110.6321 (pause 1.28) 2111.9132 2232 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2111.9132 Is that 2112.2909 2233 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2112.2909 (pause 0.45) 2112.7432 2234 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2112.7432 and- and in a- in a 2113.6245 2235 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2113.6245 (pause 0.30) 2113.9276 2236 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2113.9276 a neighborhood that's in a constant state of flux 2115.9460 2237 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2115.9460 (pause 0.83) 2116.7759 2238 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2116.7759 like thes- 2117.3068 2239 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2117.3068 (pause 0.13) 2117.4349 2240 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2117.4349 Lower East Side. 2118.0756 2241 LES_int_01 2118.0756 Yeah. 2118.3188 2242 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2118.9238 Is that the newer 2120.0222 2243 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2120.0222 (pause 0.12) 2120.1443 2244 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2120.1443 residents 2121.5315 2245 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2121.5315 (pause 0.64) 2122.1723 2246 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2122.1723 almost immediately 2123.8884 2247 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2123.8884 (pause 1.13) 2125.0191 2248 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2125.0191 adopt, 2125.6654 2249 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2125.6654 (pause 1.14) 2126.8070 2250 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2126.8070 as a defense mechanism, 2128.2593 2251 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2128.2593 (pause 0.69) 2128.9453 2252 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2128.9453 all of the prejudices and biases that they find when they get here. 2132.4480 2253 LES_int_01 2133.4796 Hm. 2133.8885 2254 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2134.1020 Okay. 2134.5231 2255 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2134.5231 (pause 0.51) 2135.0357 2256 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2135.0357 So, 2135.5482 2257 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2135.5482 (pause 0.57) 2136.1157 2258 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2136.1157 you have this peculiar thing 2137.6291 2259 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2137.6291 (pause 0.60) 2138.2271 2260 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2138.2271 where you have 2138.8712 2261 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2138.8712 (pause 0.16) 2139.0360 2262 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2139.0360 for example, 2139.7560 2263 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2139.7560 (pause 0.56) 2140.3113 2264 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2140.3113 a dark skinned 2141.4463 2265 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2141.4463 (pause 0.65) 2142.0931 2266 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2142.0931 Dominican 2142.8254 2267 LES_int_01 2143.0817 Mm-hm. 2143.4478 2268 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2143.9055 Who definitely has 2145.0753 2269 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2145.0753 (pause 0.38) 2145.4536 2270 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2145.4536 African blood. You can tell by the shape of their hips. It's steatopygic all the way. 2149.6637 2271 LES_int_01 2149.8895 Mm-hm. 2150.2186 2272 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2150.2186 You know. 2150.5241 2273 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2152.5378 Getting very offended if you tell 'em- if you 2154.5716 2274 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2154.5716 (pause 0.40) 2154.9743 2275 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2154.9743 even s- 2155.4930 2276 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2155.4930 (pause 0.26) 2155.7493 2277 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2155.7493 think that they're black. They could be black n- 2157.8179 2278 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2157.8179 (pause 0.15) 2157.9705 2279 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2157.9705 as ink. 2158.6356 2280 LES_int_01 2158.6905 Hm. 2159.1360 2281 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2159.1360 But i- 2159.5263 2282 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2159.7948 i- [i-] 2160.2524 2283 LES_int_01 2160.0327 [Right.] 2160.4477 2284 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2160.4477 But, 2160.6430 2285 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2160.8687 Right away, no no, I'm- I'm from Dominican Republic. 2163.3523 2286 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2163.3523 (pause 0.56) 2163.9117 2287 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2163.9117 As i- as if that made a big difference. 2165.6325 2288 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2165.6325 (pause 0.26) 2165.8949 2289 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2165.8949 [You know.] 2166.1512 2290 LES_int_01 2165.8949 [] 2167.0665 2291 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2166.7431 [Um.] 2167.2224 2292 LES_int_01 2167.7044 Right. 2168.1194 2293 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2168.4198 But- but- 2168.9019 2294 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2168.9019 (pause 0.10) 2169.0056 2295 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2169.0056 but that's what happens. 2170.3281 2296 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2170.3281 (pause 0.32) 2170.6461 2297 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2170.6461 And so, 2171.1587 2298 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2171.1587 (pause 0.39) 2171.5492 2299 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2171.5492 Wha- what- what 2172.1147 2300 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2172.1147 (pause 0.42) 2172.5357 2301 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2172.5357 part of that, 2173.2863 2302 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2173.2863 (pause 0.60) 2173.8878 2303 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2173.8878 is that their children 2175.3584 2304 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2175.3584 (pause 1.17) 2176.5301 2305 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2176.5301 adopt a really negative attitude toward their peers who are African Americans and it sort of perpetuates 2182.5093 2306 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2182.5093 (pause 0.56) 2183.0707 2307 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2183.0707 the whole thing. 2183.8213 2308 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2183.8213 (pause 0.52) 2184.3447 2309 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2184.3447 For years on the Lower East Side, Allen Street 2187.4018 2310 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2187.4018 (pause 0.54) 2187.9387 2311 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2187.9387 e- 2188.0974 2312 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2188.0974 (pause 0.18) 2188.2805 2313 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2188.2805 and- was- it- 2189.3096 2314 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2189.3096 (pause 0.56) 2189.8710 2315 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2189.8710 was the dividing line between 2191.5729 2316 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2191.5729 (pause 0.09) 2191.6583 2317 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2191.6583 Chinese community, Hispanic community. 2193.4890 2318 LES_int_01 2193.7331 Mm. 2193.9649 2319 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2193.9649 And 2194.2644 2320 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2195.2110 both communities were fearful of crossing the l- 2197.4077 2321 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2197.4077 (pause 0.16) 2197.5664 2322 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2197.5664 street 2197.8959 2323 LES_int_01 2198.0179 [Mm-hm.] 2198.7502 2324 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2198.2864 [to go] into the other side. 2199.4703 2325 LES_int_01 2199.5801 Right. 2199.8608 2326 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2199.9401 Because of these attitudes 2201.3416 2327 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2201.3416 (pause 0.40) 2201.7443 2328 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2201.7443 that they found when they got here that they adopted for defense mechanism that they helped to perpetuate by virtue of 2207.6234 2329 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2207.6234 (pause 1.14) 2208.7607 2330 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2208.7607 behavior of the same manner. 2210.1337 2331 LES_int_01 2210.1337 Mm-hm. 2210.4693 2332 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2210.5609 So, 2210.9026 2333 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2210.9026 (pause 1.03) 2211.9277 2334 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2211.9277 there, it's 2212.6051 2335 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2212.6051 (pause 1.16) 2213.7645 2336 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2213.7645 2213.8499 2337 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2213.8499 (pause 1.31) 2215.1642 2338 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2215.1642 African American community, 2216.4090 2339 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2216.4090 (pause 0.12) 2216.5310 2340 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2216.5310 on the Lower East Side 2217.6660 2341 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2217.6660 (pause 1.13) 2218.7949 2342 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2218.7949 is still 2219.4113 2343 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2219.4113 (pause 0.24) 2219.6492 2344 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2219.6492 fighting 2220.2351 2345 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2220.2351 (pause 0.13) 2220.3694 2346 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2220.3694 for its manhood 2221.4555 2347 LES_int_01 2221.6630 Mm-hm. 2222.0475 2348 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2222.0475 just as African Americans have been 2224.1039 2349 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2224.7671 in this country for four hundred [years.] 2226.4391 2350 LES_int_01 2226.0180 [Mm-hm.] 2226.4391 2351 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2227.0958 [/??/] 2227.4509 2352 LES_int_01 2227.0958 [Do you] these affect 2228.8654 2353 LES_int_01 2229.4024 tensions 2230.1102 2354 LES_int_01 2230.1102 (pause 0.14) 2230.2506 2355 LES_int_01 2230.2506 within the 2230.8242 2356 LES_int_01 2230.8242 (pause 0.97) 2231.7935 2357 LES_int_01 2231.7935 the different groups within the neighborhood? 2233.5278 2358 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2233.5278 Do I see tension? 2234.3882 2359 LES_int_01 2234.5469 Yeah. 2234.9069 2360 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2235.5415 I 2235.8771 2361 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2235.8771 (pause 0.45) 2236.3226 2362 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2236.3226 I th- I think 2237.2775 2363 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2237.2775 (pause 2.11) 2239.3827 2364 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2239.3827 I- I think 2239.9441 2365 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2239.9441 (pause 0.66) 2240.6031 2366 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2240.6031 somewhat l- 2241.2561 2367 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2241.2561 (pause 0.57) 2241.8236 2368 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2241.8236 less 2242.5131 2369 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2242.5131 (pause 0.37) 2242.8853 2370 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2242.8853 than say twenty, 2243.7306 2371 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2243.7306 (pause 0.46) 2244.1883 2372 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2244.1883 twenty-five years ago. 2245.2134 2373 LES_int_01 2245.2134 Mm-hm. 2245.5124 2374 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2245.5124 Because younger people tend to be freer thinkers [nowadays.] 2248.5279 2375 LES_int_01 2248.0702 [Mm.] 2248.5279 2376 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2248.9459 A- and so 2249.4855 2377 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2249.4855 (pause 0.33) 2249.8193 2378 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2249.8193 there's- 2250.1244 2379 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2250.1244 (pause 0.15) 2250.2735 2380 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2250.2735 you know, 2250.4428 2381 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2250.4428 (pause 0.18) 2250.6274 2382 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2250.6274 there's a diminution of that. 2252.0248 2383 LES_int_01 2252.0248 Yeah. 2252.3665 2384 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2252.7082 Um, 2253.0005 2385 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2253.0005 (pause 0.43) 2253.4344 2386 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2253.4344 but you still have their parents and their grandparents, you know, 2256.5561 2387 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2256.5561 (pause 0.35) 2256.9039 2388 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2256.9039 who hang on to these old shibboleths, you know, they don't know 2259.5783 2389 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2259.5783 (pause 0.26) 2259.8407 2390 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2259.8407 what to make of anything 2260.9573 2391 LES_int_01 2261.0794 Yeah. 2261.4455 2392 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2261.4543 And so, they sort of perpetuate it. 2262.9931 2393 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2262.9931 (pause 0.50) 2263.4935 2394 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2263.4935 [Um.] 2263.9085 2395 LES_int_01 2263.7254 [Yeah.] 2264.0183 2396 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2264.4515 Y- you can have, for example, young Asians 2266.8940 2397 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2266.8940 (pause 0.34) 2267.2357 2398 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2267.2357 who have 2267.8520 2399 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2267.8520 (pause 0.38) 2268.2304 2400 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2268.2304 African American friends whose grandparents 2271.1106 2401 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2271.1106 (pause 0.12) 2271.2326 2402 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2271.2326 don't want in the house. 2272.4668 2403 LES_int_01 2274.4989 Right. 2274.8772 2404 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2275.6033 e- the- it's- 2276.5858 2405 LES_int_01 2277.0089 Yeah, 2277.4632 2406 LES_int_01 2277.4632 (pause 0.14) 2277.6064 2407 LES_int_01 2277.6064 still exists. 2278.5279 2408 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2278.7536 So, it's- So I guess maybe we're a couple of decades away. 2281.4508 2409 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2281.4508 (pause 0.37) 2281.8230 2410 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2281.8230 [You know (laughing)] 2282.5203 2411 LES_int_01 2282.1769 [Yeah. ] 2283.2525 2412 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2283.3257 You know, from a real sort of freedom in that [respect, you know.] 2286.6636 2413 LES_int_01 2285.8947 [Yeah, well I hope so.] 2286.9199 2414 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2287.2006 Yeah. 2287.4752 2415 LES_int_01 2287.4536 /?/ 2287.7670 2416 LES_int_01 2288.1342 Um. 2288.6712 2417 LES_int_01 2288.6712 (pause 0.67) 2289.3440 2418 LES_int_01 2289.3440 /RD-NAME-2/ always likes me to ask if there are places in the neighborhood that are important to you, she works on a 2295.1838 2419 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2295.3608 [Well, look.] 2296.1298 2420 LES_int_01 2295.3608 [this /inaudible/ project.] 2296.8025 2421 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2296.5021 [Ma-] /RD-NAME-2/ 2297.3944 2422 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2297.7239 /RD-NAME-2/ uh. 2298.6026 2423 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2298.6026 (pause 2.07) 2300.6712 2424 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2300.6712 y- you know, the- they installed me in their people's hall of fame thing a couple of years [ago.] 2304.4336 2425 LES_int_01 2304.1529 [Okay,] cool. 2304.9794 2426 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2305.4004 Uh. 2305.6323 2427 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2305.6323 (pause 1.41) 2307.0459 2428 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2307.0459 Every week, when I get to /RD-WORK-4/, I- I told /RD-NAME-2/ this not too long ago, I said 2310.7624 2429 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2310.7624 (pause 0.48) 2311.2444 2430 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2311.2444 ow- I'm s- and I know /RD-NAME-4/ well. 2313.4717 2431 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2313.4717 (pause 0.31) 2313.7768 2432 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2313.7768 you know, the lady that started the whole [thing.] 2315.5375 2433 LES_int_01 2315.2562 [Okay.] Yeah. 2315.8481 2434 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2316.1166 So, 2316.5011 2435 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2316.5011 (pause 1.30) 2317.8008 2436 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2317.8008 I said, I'm so happy that you do this. 2319.3752 2437 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2319.3752 (pause 0.42) 2319.7962 2438 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2319.7962 Because, what it has done for me, 2321.4881 2439 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2321.4881 (pause 0.52) 2322.0084 2440 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2322.0084 in many instances 2323.4164 2441 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2323.4164 (pause 0.26) 2323.6727 2442 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2323.6727 was reminded me of- 2324.9663 2443 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2324.9663 (pause 0.12) 2325.0884 2444 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2325.0884 of several stories that were really important to me in my life. 2327.5857 2445 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2327.5857 (pause 0.48) 2328.0678 2446 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2328.0678 You know. 2328.4278 2447 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2328.4278 (pause 0.23) 2328.6597 2448 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2328.6597 But, the thi- the thing about Red Hook that 2330.2463 2449 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2330.2463 (pause 0.12) 2330.3622 2450 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2330.3622 tha- 2330.5575 2451 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2330.5575 (pause 0.31) 2330.8687 2452 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2330.8687 em- 2331.0701 2453 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2331.0701 (pause 0.15) 2331.2165 2454 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2331.2165 uh- by the Todd Shipyard, I said I learned to swim off the docks down there in Todd Shipyard. 2335.2272 2455 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2335.2272 (pause 0.40) 2335.6239 2456 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2335.6239 And then the thing about the 2336.6551 2457 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2336.6551 (pause 0.33) 2336.9846 2458 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2336.9846 the- 2337.1555 2459 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2337.1555 (pause 0.21) 2337.3691 2460 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2337.3691 the Empire Roller Ring, I said, you know, I threw a picket line around that place, I was sixteen years old because they wouldn't let African Americans 2343.5033 2461 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2343.5033 (pause 0.53) 2344.0342 2462 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2344.0342 skate there then. 2344.8718 2463 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2344.8718 (pause 0.40) 2345.2684 2464 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2345.2684 You know, so uh, I- I think. 2346.6353 2465 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2346.6353 (pause 0.49) 2347.1235 2466 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2347.1235 Yeah. 2347.3798 2467 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2347.3798 (pause 0.27) 2347.6483 2468 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2347.6483 But i- the places on the Lower East Side 2350.0708 2469 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2350.0708 (pause 0.24) 2350.3088 2470 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2350.3088 that were important to me are gone. 2352.0458 2471 LES_int_01 2353.0363 Okay. 2353.4906 2472 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2353.6156 y- you know, [like,] like [the- the-] um. 2355.7392 2473 LES_int_01 2354.2014 [Yeah.] 2354.4882 2474 LES_int_01 2354.4882 (pause 0.34) 2354.8261 2475 LES_int_01 2354.8261 [Yeah.] 2355.1229 2476 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2356.5996 I can't even remember the name, um- me- the Kosher restaurants that used to be on Essex and Delancey 2360.4394 2477 LES_int_01 2360.4760 Yeah. 2360.8788 2478 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2361.0130 A- and 2361.6904 2479 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2361.6904 (pause 0.42) 2362.1114 2480 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2362.1114 a- and 2362.7460 2481 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2362.7460 (pause 0.14) 2362.8864 2482 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2362.8864 and the um 2363.8749 2483 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2363.8749 (pause 0.82) 2364.6953 2484 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2364.6953 the- the- Daily Forward Building is now an expensive co-op, [you know.] 2367.7697 2485 LES_int_01 2367.4768 [Yeah. (laughing)] 2368.0809 2486 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2368.4165 Y- you know what I mean, t- that's is what mattered to me. 2370.8391 2487 LES_int_01 2371.0556 [Right.] 2371.3674 2488 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2371.1930 [The] stuff that's 2371.9557 2489 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2372.1526 matteri- 2372.6957 2490 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2372.6957 (pause 0.26) 2372.9581 2491 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2372.9581 matters to 2373.5805 2492 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2373.5805 (pause 0.63) 2374.2090 2493 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2374.2090 I notice a lot of people who 2375.5149 2494 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2375.5149 (pause 0.09) 2375.6003 2495 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2375.6003 maybe a decade of two younger than me here at the [church] 2377.9451 2496 LES_int_01 2377.5607 [Yeah.] 2377.9451 2497 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2378.3357 that still exists, like 2379.3608 2498 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2379.3608 (pause 0.27) 2379.6293 2499 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2379.6293 e- um. 2380.1907 2500 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2380.1907 (pause 0.21) 2380.4043 2501 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2380.4043 What they call, Edges. 2381.4600 2502 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2381.4600 (pause 0.17) 2381.6308 2503 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2381.6308 You know. 2382.1373 2504 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2382.1373 (pause 0.29) 2382.4302 2505 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2382.4302 The 2382.5706 2506 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2382.5706 (pause 0.43) 2382.9977 2507 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2382.9977 the uh, 2383.3577 2508 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2383.3577 (pause 1.78) 2385.1351 2509 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2385.1351 the- that 2385.6659 2510 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2385.6659 (pause 0.24) 2385.9039 2511 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2385.9039 group there on 2386.8253 2512 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2386.8253 (pause 0.14) 2386.9657 2513 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2386.9657 East Broadway 2387.7163 2514 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2387.7163 (pause 0.12) 2387.8322 2515 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2387.8322 across from the library. 2388.8024 2516 LES_int_01 2389.0099 Um. I know [/unintelligible/.] 2390.8463 2517 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2390.0916 [Is] 2390.4150 2518 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2390.4150 (pause 0.21) 2390.6225 2519 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2390.6225 [you know.] 2390.8727 2520 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2391.3608 Uh, but 2391.9039 2521 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2391.9039 (pause 0.33) 2392.2334 2522 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2392.2334 the- t- w- what's left is 2394.0885 2523 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2394.0885 (pause 0.17) 2394.2594 2524 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2394.2594 Grand Street Settlement, Hendricks Street Settlement, 2395.9802 2525 LES_int_01 2396.6890 [The settlement houses?] 2397.3968 2526 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2396.8055 [the settlement] houses because they go way back. 2399.8219 2527 LES_int_01 2399.9848 Yeah. 2400.3082 2528 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2400.3082 Um. 2400.5217 2529 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2400.8024 And they still do really good work. 2402.7750 2530 LES_int_01 2403.0130 Yeah. 2403.2510 2531 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2403.4829 Do you know what I mean? 2404.1175 2532 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2404.1175 (pause 0.09) 2404.2029 2533 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2404.2029 And- and so they- they've become very important 2406.5523 2534 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2406.5523 (pause 0.43) 2406.9794 2535 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2406.9794 the- the uh 2407.8581 2536 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2407.8581 (pause 0.20) 2408.0550 2537 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2408.0550 n- 2408.2624 2538 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2408.2624 (pause 0.37) 2408.6286 2539 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2408.6286 the incredible synagogue 2410.3616 2540 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2410.3616 (pause 0.46) 2410.8192 2541 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2410.8192 network 2411.6064 2542 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2411.6064 (pause 1.24) 2412.8513 2543 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2412.8513 that's here 2413.5591 2544 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2413.5591 (pause 0.54) 2414.0977 2545 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2414.0977 on the Lower East Side that's 2415.5195 2546 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2415.5195 (pause 0.19) 2415.7087 2547 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2415.7087 running into a lot of difficulty of late. 2417.5820 2548 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2417.5820 (pause 0.13) 2417.7102 2549 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2417.7102 You know, [trying to keep] the buildings going. 2419.7987 2550 LES_int_01 2418.1129 [Yeah.] 2418.4363 2551 LES_int_01 2419.7987 Right. 2420.1587 2552 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2420.7140 That to me is really important 2422.3438 2553 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2422.3438 (pause 0.29) 2422.6362 2554 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2422.6362 you know. 2422.9596 2555 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2422.9596 (pause 0.48) 2423.4417 2556 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2423.4417 Um. 2423.7224 2557 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2423.7224 (pause 0.72) 2424.4424 2558 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2424.4424 Because 2425.2601 2559 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2425.2601 (pause 0.97) 2426.2319 2560 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2426.2319 they were so rich with history and- and stories and things of that sort. 2430.7156 2561 LES_int_01 2430.7353 Yeah. 2431.0818 2562 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2431.2967 Um. 2431.6751 2563 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2431.6751 (pause 1.30) 2432.9764 2564 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2432.9764 They matter. 2433.8002 2565 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2433.8002 (pause 0.46) 2434.2578 2566 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2434.2578 [You know.] 2434.7338 2567 LES_int_01 2434.2578 [Yeah.] 2434.6303 2568 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2435.4356 Um. 2435.7102 2569 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2435.7102 (pause 2.73) 2438.4394 2570 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2438.4394 Aside from that, 2439.3242 2571 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2439.3242 (pause 1.18) 2440.5080 2572 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2440.5080 it's really the parks. The little pocket parks, 2443.4737 2573 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2443.4737 (pause 0.43) 2443.9024 2574 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2443.9024 uh, and the large and small parks 2446.1175 2575 LES_int_01 2446.1175 [Yeah.] 2446.4531 2576 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2446.2701 [you know.] 2446.5569 2577 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2447.0694 Tha- 2447.1915 2578 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2447.1915 (pause 0.38) 2447.5759 2579 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2447.5759 the- the few trees 2449.4676 2580 LES_int_01 2451.1045 [] 2451.9833 2581 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2451.8246 [The] few trees that [you have on the Lower East Side are] really important to [me.] 2455.5225 2582 LES_int_01 2452.9962 [] 2454.3458 2583 LES_int_01 2454.3458 (pause 1.00) 2455.3455 2584 LES_int_01 2455.3455 [Yeah.] 2455.7544 2585 LES_int_01 2455.9557 [Yeah. That's true.] 2456.8299 2586 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2456.1154 [You kn- you know.] 2456.8299 2587 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2457.8734 Um. 2458.1663 2588 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2458.1663 (pause 0.20) 2458.3616 2589 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2458.3616 Seward Park High School 2459.5698 2590 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2459.5698 (pause 0.22) 2459.7895 2591 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2459.7895 i- is important 2460.7841 2592 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2460.7841 (pause 0.15) 2460.9367 2593 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2460.9367 [you know.] 2461.2906 2594 LES_int_01 2460.9367 [Mm-hm.] 2461.2906 2595 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2461.6400 I think as an institution, that means a lot to a lot of people I know. 2464.5890 2596 LES_int_01 2464.8681 [Yeah.] 2465.2464 2597 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2464.8697 [You know.] 2465.1427 2598 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2465.7773 So, 2466.0824 2599 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2466.0824 (pause 0.15) 2466.2288 2600 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2466.2288 the- the- the 2466.9184 2601 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2466.9184 (pause 0.26) 2467.1808 2602 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2467.1808 [I guess] I've 2467.7544 2603 LES_int_01 2467.1808 [Yeah.] 2467.4066 2604 LES_int_01 2468.4577 Uh. 2468.8361 2605 LES_int_01 2468.8361 (pause 0.36) 2469.1961 2606 LES_int_01 2469.1961 We- Where do you see the neighborhood going? 2470.9025 2607 LES_int_01 2470.9025 (pause 0.86) 2471.7590 2608 LES_int_01 2471.7590 What do you think's gonna happen to the [whole-] 2473.5713 2609 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2473.0404 [A-] I think- I think the neighborhood is gonna really suffer, the character of it is gonna change because of gentrification, 2478.5828 2610 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2478.9733 and if the economy falters, 2480.8788 2611 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2480.8788 (pause 0.39) 2481.2693 2612 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2481.2693 any more, 2481.8429 2613 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2481.8429 (pause 0.39) 2482.2334 2614 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2482.2334 it's gonna be a real disaster. 2483.3867 2615 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2483.3867 (pause 0.57) 2483.9542 2616 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2483.9542 Because the people who have got all these high r- 2485.7971 2617 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2485.7971 (pause 0.61) 2486.4089 2618 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2486.4089 high price, high rent things 2487.7636 2619 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2487.7636 (pause 0.24) 2488.0077 2620 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2488.0077 are not gonna be really able to afford them, 2489.5515 2621 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2489.5515 (pause 0.47) 2490.0214 2622 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2490.0214 and I don't know what that means because the owners of them are not gonna turn them over 2494.3189 2623 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2494.3189 (pause 1.28) 2495.6003 2624 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2495.6003 you know, to people 2496.6011 2625 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2496.6011 (pause 0.14) 2496.7414 2626 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2496.7414 of lesser wealth, I [mean, uh, so.] 2498.6896 2627 LES_int_01 2498.0184 [Yeah.] 2498.4089 2628 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2499.0435 I- I think this neighborhood is dangerously 2501.3684 2629 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2501.3684 (pause 0.40) 2501.7712 2630 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2501.7712 um, 2502.0458 2631 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2502.0458 (pause 0.33) 2502.3753 2632 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2502.3753 on the- one the edge of becoming 2503.8109 2633 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2503.8109 (pause 0.30) 2504.1099 2634 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2504.1099 uh- a miles from s- something that we can't recognize easily. 2507.3440 2635 LES_int_01 2507.2675 Mm-hm. 2507.9787 2636 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2508.0702 You know. 2508.5156 2637 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2508.5156 (pause 0.57) 2509.0831 2638 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2509.0831 [It's re-] 2509.4676 2639 LES_int_01 2509.0831 [Do you] think that it's important for us and for the- 2512.0199 2640 LES_int_01 2512.2640 those people who are new to- to really understand the history of the neighborhood? 2516.3662 2641 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2518.6850 To really [understand] 2519.7956 2642 LES_int_01 2519.0572 [Kind of] in order to move forward, I guess, do we need to know about the past? 2522.4882 2643 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2524.0626 I think 2524.4592 2644 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2524.4592 (pause 0.37) 2524.8315 2645 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2524.8315 a- 2525.0084 2646 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2525.0084 (pause 3.30) 2528.3052 2647 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2528.3052 I don't agree with that. 2529.3364 2648 LES_int_01 2529.3364 Hm. 2529.6659 2649 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2530.6057 Because 2531.3684 2650 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2531.3684 (pause 1.47) 2532.8391 2651 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2532.8391 It- i- the assumption is is that the past is going to be instructive 2536.2884 2652 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2536.2884 (pause 0.63) 2536.9230 2653 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2536.9230 to the- 2537.2891 2654 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2537.2891 (pause 0.12) 2537.4112 2655 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2537.4112 to the 2537.7041 2656 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2537.7041 (pause 0.16) 2537.8688 2657 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2537.8688 present in some way. 2538.8574 2658 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2538.8574 (pause 0.20) 2539.0587 2659 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2539.0587 [In some way.] 2539.5896 2660 LES_int_01 2539.0587 [Could it] be, yeah, yeah. [I guess that's what I'm wondering. Is it.] 2541.2640 2661 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2540.3242 Um. 2540.5988 2662 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2540.5988 (pause 0.26) 2540.8551 2663 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2540.8551 [But, but] 2541.3128 2664 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2542.2159 to me, at least in New York, 2544.6035 2665 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2544.6035 (pause 0.26) 2544.8653 2666 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2544.8653 the present and the future are always dramatically different than the [past.] 2548.9861 2667 LES_int_01 2548.5041 [Hm.] Yeah. [Mm-hm.] 2550.1482 2668 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2549.5929 And so you, c- I can't even imagine, you know. I mean, Coney Island 2552.8687 2669 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2553.0151 is gone. 2553.9610 2670 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2553.9610 (pause 0.41) 2554.3725 2671 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2554.3725 You know, the beach houses at Rockaway 2556.1726 2672 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2556.1726 (pause 0.21) 2556.3801 2673 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2556.3801 are 2556.5563 2674 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2556.5563 (pause 0.16) 2556.7210 2675 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2556.7210 gone. 2557.2092 2676 LES_int_01 2557.6046 [Mm.] 2557.8637 2677 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2557.6595 [Ta-] Do you know what I mean, and what's gonna be this 2560.1032 2678 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2560.3168 eh- eh- 2560.6951 2679 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2560.6951 (pause 0.16) 2560.8599 2680 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2560.8599 it's not gonna be anything like what was. 2563.6852 2681 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2563.6852 (pause 0.57) 2564.2542 2682 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2564.2542 A- and so, that's what I- I see [that as] 2566.6585 2683 LES_int_01 2566.4327 [Yeah, yeah.] So it's maybe not relevant. 2568.8553 2684 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2567.1040 [A sort of.] 2567.6715 2685 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2568.8614 Not at all. I t- well, it's relevant from a historical point of [view.] 2572.2130 2686 LES_int_01 2572.0605 [Yeah, yeah.] 2572.9087 2687 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2572.5548 [Of what.] 2572.9087 2688 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2573.1650 You know, what a certain group of people 2574.8370 2689 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2574.8370 (pause 0.22) 2575.0566 2690 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2575.0566 had to enjoy their lives 2577.0597 2691 LES_int_01 2577.0597 Yeah. 2577.3954 2692 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2577.4869 and and so you make a comparison between they- the way they enjoy life and the way you enjoy life 2581.7844 2693 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2581.7844 (pause 0.37) 2582.1566 2694 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2582.1566 and so you can have some sort of a, you know, thing about that 2584.3351 2695 LES_int_01 2584.5609 [Yeah.] 2584.8294 2696 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2584.6646 [but,] as far as the- the- 2585.9583 2697 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2587.4899 the development of a new neighborhood, 2589.3587 2698 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2589.3587 (pause 0.22) 2589.5784 2699 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2589.5784 the past 2590.2680 2700 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2590.2680 (pause 0.97) 2591.2382 2701 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2591.2382 in my judgement isn't really 2592.7576 2702 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2592.7576 (pause 0.39) 2593.1482 2703 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2593.1482 that informative. 2594.3946 2704 LES_int_01 2594.3946 Right, right. 2595.3221 2705 LES_int_01 2595.3221 (pause 0.65) 2595.9690 2706 LES_int_01 2595.9690 Interesting, interesting. 2597.0002 2707 LES_int_01 2597.0002 (pause 0.25) 2597.2504 2708 LES_int_01 2597.2504 Listen, I uh, I know I told you we'd keep this as short as possible. I could go on forever. 2600.9194 2709 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2600.9987 I- well I can't 2601.9873 2710 LES_int_01 2602.2741 This has been great, I mean I- I asked you all my key questions, so 2605.6180 2711 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2605.6180 Okay. 2606.0360 2712 LES_int_01 2606.0360 we can go ahead and stop. 2606.8597 2713 LES_se0_ag4_m_01 2607.0001 Alright, please. 2607.7690