Line	Speaker	St Time	Content	En Time
1	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	0.207	We were talking about drugs [in the neighborhood.]	2.216
2	LES_int_01	1.204	[We were talk- yeah. I was] wo- yeah, I was curious. I mean, people do talk about, you know	4.552
3		4.715	that period as being, you know,	6.7
5		6.812	heightened crime, heightened	8.569
7		8.771	danger- you know, feeling unsafe. Was that [something you experienced?]	12.234
8	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	11.157	[Well,]	11.662
10		12.039	[this] is like, in a later-	13.615
11		13.778	latter part of the sixties,	15.657
13		16.183	and the early part of the seventies.	18.882
14	LES_int_01	18.882	Yeah.	19.288
15	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	19.493	Y- crime b-	20.285
17		21.432	increased.	22.29
18	LES_int_01	22.565	[Okay.]	22.833
19	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	22.602	[It's] not something that I saw or experienced.	25.954
20		26.463	Um, I saw drugs.	28.239
22		28.761	I saw people roaming the street, drugged out. I remember two things. (laughing)	33.847
24		34.313	One was this guy who used to be- he was a fixture in the West Village,	38.415
26		38.737	who used to skate around, and it wasn't rollerblades then it was the four wheels,	42.439
27	LES_int_01	42.494	Yeah.	42.933
28	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	43.11	with- in a clown costume,	44.746
30		45.036	with a little umbrella.	46.369
32		46.494	I remember him. That had to be [drugs.]	48.438
33	LES_int_01	48.354	[<laugh>]	49.907
34	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	48.751	[I remember the electric] circus that was on Eighth Street, [right?]	52.787
35	LES_int_01	52.312	[Yeah.]	52.965
36	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	53.16	And I also remember- I have this vivid memory- /you'll notice that-/	56.583
38		56.937	of, um, somebody-	58.363
40		58.895	<ts> this woman walking around naked.	61.165
42		62.093	In panties,	63.079
44		63.472	holding a birthday cake.	64.843
46		66.177	And she was huge.	67.523
47	LES_int_01	67.939	[Wow.]	68.494
48	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	68.033	[I w-] I will always- how can you lose that [memory, right?]	71.714
49	LES_int_01	70.824	[Wow. <laugh>]	72.321
50	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	72.275	[<laugh>]	74.549
51	LES_int_01	73.086	[<laugh>]	73.925
53		74.32	[So you're] g- we're guessing she was not [sober? <laugh>]	77.682
54	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	76.353	[No, she was not sober. And I] also remember and know who the drug addicts were	80.997
55		81.123	in- i- in the- in the	82.713
57		82.839	[projects.]	83.481
58	LES_int_01	83.21	[Yeah, yeah.]	84.073
59	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	83.812	[You know,] so to that extent, yeah. [Did I s-]	86.473
60	LES_int_01	85.943	[Was it s-] was it something that affected your friends as you got older, into high school and things like that? Did- were there [people who got] kind of caught up into it?	92.96
61	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	91.075	[<sigh>]	91.709
62		94.433	Yeah, but what happened was	96.126
64		96.363	as I-	97.29
66		97.929	as I went through school,	99.402
68		100.063	I became	101.343
70		102.11	s- for- for lack of any other words, segregated.	104.661
72		105.083	Because I was part of that,	106.515
74		106.763	um,	107.416
76		108.063	that [gifted program- the talented and gifted program.]	111.117
77	LES_int_01	108.657	[You doing so well in school, yeah.]	111.163
78	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	111.48	So	112.258
80		113.15	they s- I s- j-	114.12
82		114.661	I- when I st- went to /RD-SCHOOL-3/,	116.795
84		117.402	the	117.583
86		117.83	people in my class,	119.07
88		119.602	there were a few people who went to the junior high school,	122.669
90		123.023	but they weren't in my class. And my class stayed to the-	125.63
92		125.88	together for the two years that I was there.	127.862
94		128.216	And they were from other parts of the city, like from the Upper	131.626
95	LES_int_01	131.626	[Yeah.]	132.095
96	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	132.02	[West Side.]	132.734
97		132.948	What was interesting was that they had two,	135.345
99		135.932	um,	136.683
101		137.373	S-P programs.	138.682
103		139.018	And it's- it's funny, I wonder if they think that children don't notice this,	142.187
105		142.501	but in the two programs, one was white,	145.153
107		145.639	all white kids.	146.524
109		146.896	And they	147.546
111		147.789	they took the French classes,	149.335
113		149.507	and started them on French.	150.822
115		151.293	And then the other class	152.729
117		152.845	every- was everybody else.	154.154
119		154.352	Right.	154.72
121		155.163	So	155.926
123		156.22	we were- and of course I was in the everybody else, but my everybody else class wasn't all black, because this is a very diverse city. [So it] was everybody in this [class.]	165.778
124	LES_int_01	162.696	[Yeah.]	163.166
126		165.587	[Yeah.]	165.89
127	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	166.207	Um,	166.981
129		167.656	[and-]	168.434
130	LES_int_01	168.215	[But no] French for you guys?	169.539
131	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	169.558	no, we took Spanish.	170.745
133		171.376	<laugh>	173.535
135		174.02	But the-	174.458
137		174.649	but the great thing about it is, like, I remember there was this guy named /RD-NAME-1/ who was Indian.	179.665
139		180.094	And this in the sixties, you know, and,	182.126
141		182.457	um, I don't know if you've heard of Baba Olatunji? He's a African [drummer.]	186.215
142	LES_int_01	185.931	[Uh.]	186.781
143		187.259	Yes, I think so.	188.352
144	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	188.439	He- he's since died, but his son,	191.31
146		192.07	um, he had I think	193.38
148		193.627	three daughters	194.994
150		196.191	and one son.	197.175
152		197.279	And his son Kwame	198.514
154		199.1	was in my class. [And] we were t-	201.594
155	LES_int_01	200.121	[Cool.]	200.517
156	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	201.87	I stayed in touch with him	203.398
158		203.912	through high school.	205.38
160		205.795	He ended up going to Harvard.	207.58
162		207.869	His father, I found out later, went to-	210.14
164		210.604	to Morehouse.	211.627
166		212.177	And like, fast forward- and I remember going to his house, he- they had a	216.662
168		217.025	fabulous apartment.	218.415
170		219.067	on Riverside.	219.771
172		219.944	In hindsight,	220.988
173	LES_int_01	220.988	[Wow.]	221.538
174	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	221.249	[He-] I realized that he liked me. He had a crush on me. I [didn't know that then, I was clueless. I wish I was] a little bit [smarter.]	228.41
175	LES_int_01	224.097	[Oh.]	225.24
177		225.72	[<laugh>]	226.955
179		228.256	[<laugh>]	229.598
180	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	229.389	[But he] liked me.	230.583
181		230.917	And he invited me to his house, and I remember going and it was like, this formal dining room. I didn't even know how to act or how to eat or anything. And we had these, like,	239.145
183		239.299	beautiful china plates and	240.898
185		241.206	there were all these people. His family, and his mother and in this beautiful African dress, [and his father was] there, and it was all very, you know, formal. I'm like, okay.	249.714
186	LES_int_01	245.477	[Oh.]	246.246
187		249.719	[<laugh>]	250.768
188	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	250.561	[And]	251.332
189		251.537	fast forward and years later I saw him, you know, off and on like, after college and we were	257.225
191		257.551	working and doing our thing,	258.706
193		259.502	And he,	260.397
195		260.87	um,	261.784
197		262.161	<ts> he died. I had heard [through- and I] couldn't figure out-	265.951
198	LES_int_01	264.156	[Hm.]	264.73
199	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	266.08	I don't remember who told me,	267.189
201		267.663	but he died. He died in like, this- like, mysterious drowning [accident.]	272.363
202	LES_int_01	272.096	[Oh.]	272.52
203	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	272.986	And	273.802
205		273.923	it broke my heart.	275.1
207		275.234	And I d- cause I had seen him like, I- maybe a few months or a year before [whatever.]	280.231
208	LES_int_01	280.058	[Oh,] no.	280.837
209	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	280.851	And	281.472
211		281.689	I felt like I didn't have a way of grieving.	283.876
213		284.533	And fast forward, I was at a friend's wedding. She had a wedding,	288.719
215		288.878	um,	289.637
217		290.254	in	291
219		291.121	someone's house. It was one of these home-grown weddings, and it was in someone's house.	294.911
221		295.443	And	296.231
223		296.551	th- this friend was a friend through friends, and we became friends.	300.062
225		300.407	And her husband, it turns out to be, went to Morehouse.	303.54
227		304.403	And her	306.104
229		306.593	brother	307.33
231		307.437	went to Morehouse.	308.57
233		308.687	And her brother	309.61
235		309.745	was Spike- is Spike Lee.	311.251
237		312.207	And it turns [out,]	313.326
238	LES_int_01	313.229	[Whoa.]	313.685
239	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	313.586	[that] Spike	314.775
240		315.348	and Kwame	316.235
242		316.85	were friends.	317.8
244		318.309	And they were like, best friends.	319.844
245	LES_int_01	319.842	Huh.	320.294
246	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	320.374	And her m-	321.045
248		321.168	and his-	322.183
250		322.863	Kwame's mother officiated at the wedding, which was Spike's sister's [wedding.]	327.161
251	LES_int_01	326.905	[Oh] my [gosh.]	328.103
252	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	327.935	[And]	328.723
253		330.309	she- <exhale>	331.092
255		331.363	It was like this- if- it's like it all came [back together. It was] really weird.	334.933
256	LES_int_01	333.484	[Yeah.]	334.336
257		334.933	That's [amazing.]	336.024
258	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	335.283	[But what I found] out was, and this is their story so-	338.34
259		338.737	but,	339.198
261		339.323	um,	339.952
263		340.443	because Spike has, I guess,	342.9
265		343.576	there are three or four of them boys and one girl,	346.266
266	LES_int_01	346.28	[Okay.]	346.714
267	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	346.602	[and] the /RD-NAME-4/ had three or four girls,	349.199
268		349.883	and one boy,	350.681
269	LES_int_01	350.718	Okay.	351.198
270	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	351.203	they put the families t-	352.471
272		352.602	together. And the fathers were both- are both [musicians.]	355.599
273	LES_int_01	355.426	[Okay.]	355.86
274	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	355.86	Spike's father is still alive, but Kwame's isn't.	357.804
275		358.173	And they had the boy- the families came together and they played often.	361.685
276	LES_int_01	361.715	[Yeah.]	362.158
277	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	362.074	[So] as I was playing with	364.445
278		364.62	Kwame,	365.217
280		365.767	in junior high school, he was playing with Spike.	368.307
282		368.592	Spike n- I knew in	370.629
284		371.035	college, because Spike went to Morehouse.	373.239
286		373.897	So it was like all of these little threads came [together,]	377.58
287	LES_int_01	377.002	[Amazing.]	377.701
288	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	378.498	you know, like twenty years [later.]	380.531
289	LES_int_01	380.28	[Yeah.]	381.12
290	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	380.685	[You know, it] was so weird. [So] weird.	382.913
291	LES_int_01	381.906	[Yeah.]	382.377
292	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	383.3	But, um,	384.387
294		384.638	that was just a- a-	385.706
296		385.831	a- story out	387.085
297	LES_int_01	387.289	[Wow, that's interesting.]	388.582
298	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	387.383	[in- in space.]	388.456
299		388.74	But it was, it was a s- really kind of weird. But-	391.216
300	LES_int_01	391.258	So from that junior high school then, where did you go [on for high school?]	394.381
301	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	393.504	[<ts>]	393.621
303		393.747	[from junior high school] I went /RD-SCHOOL-5/.	396.67
304	LES_int_01	396.67	Oh you [did?]	397.379
305	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	397.277	[Yeah.]	398.199
306	LES_int_01	397.919	[What was] that like?	398.758
307	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	399.141	Oh, it was great. There was a- um, an annex where you went for tenth [grade]	403.714
308	LES_int_01	403.463	[Right, right.]	404.406
309	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	403.971	[that] was down on- well, I don't know the name of that street. It's down below- past [Grand.]	408.329
310	LES_int_01	408.069	[Yeah.]	408.995
311	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	408.717	[But you know] that- [that-]	409.992
312	LES_int_01	409.472	[Like, Madison] or [something.]	411.035
313	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	410.525	[Madison.] But taking us into that neighborhood,	413.369
314		413.686	that neigborhood- we didn't even talk about that neighborhood. That neighborhood was so much fun	417.579
316		417.878	outside of the food,	419.019
317	LES_int_01	419.42	[Yeah.]	419.925
318	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	419.579	[like, there used] to- there's a bialy shop down there, [now.]	422.311
319	LES_int_01	421.97	[Yeah.]	422.516
320	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	422.632	Right? [That bialy] shop used to be on Fourteenth Street.	425.224
321	LES_int_01	423.019	[Mm-hm.]	423.394
322	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	425.481	Between A	426.691
324		427.233	and B, where the pizzeria is.	429.247
325	LES_int_01	429.289	Huh.	429.685
326	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	431.355	You know, [like, I wish I could recreate that block. I knew there was a	434.52
327	LES_int_01	431.788	[Yeah.]	432.151
328	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	434.875	/Shraff's- Shriff's?/ Candy store.	437.625
330		438.161	A toy store, there was a Woolworths, there was a bialy shop.	441.844
332		443.154	I'm trying to remember what was on that street.	444.85
334		445.4	But, um,	446.454
336		446.683	so I went to school down there, everybody was down there. It was kind of cool because the Essex Markets were still alive and [well,]	453.209
337	LES_int_01	453.162	[Right.]	453.577
338	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	453.577	on both sides of the [street.]	455.33
339	LES_int_01	455.078	[Right.]	455.633
340	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	455.671	<ts> We used to go down there-	457.125
342		457.349	not- we didn't do our shopping, we did some but I don't remember my mother going down there. I'm trying to remember where did she shop?	463.009
344		463.465	My mother used to sew,	464.777
346		465.05	so she [would buy-] there were	466.938
347	LES_int_01	465.591	[Oh.]	466.519
348	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	467.05	tons of fabric [stores]	468.925
349	LES_int_01	468.3	[Right.]	469.069
350	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	469.526	down there.	470.276
351	LES_int_01	470.276	[Yes.]	470.855
352	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	470.408	[She would] buy	471.619
353		472.085	fabric and make our clothes, and she [would buy yarn.] She was	476.115
354	LES_int_01	474.57	[Wow.]	475.326
355	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	476.346	a- this huge knitter, and there was	477.792
357		478.02	these yarn stores. One	479.483
359		480.019	right on the corner of Essex and	482.327
361		482.452	between Delancey and the block south,	484.275
363		484.64	across the street from Seward Park. Cause we went passed there the other day and I was like, oh, wow.	488.637
365		488.891	<ts> [Bell Yarns] was there, Sunray Yarns,	491.241
366	LES_int_01	489.073	[Oh.]	489.642
367	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	491.786	and we used to go down and buy [yarns.]	493.497
368	LES_int_01	493.321	[Amazing.]	494.117
369	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	493.65	[And-] school, I mean,	495.077
370		495.436	high school was kind of interesting. I did,	497.423
372		497.936	um,	498.708
374		499.436	I-	499.869
376		500.112	I w- wanted to be an actress, so I	502.401
378		502.588	went to-	503.759
380		504.616	I auditioned for this school, it was a performing arts school but it was part time.	509.931
381	LES_int_01	509.977	Okay.	510.392
382	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	510.402	So it-	510.834
384		510.96	it's still there, someone just told me recently it was still there. /RD-SCHOOL-8/.	515.352
386		515.665	It's in /RD-SCHOOL-5/.	516.901
388		517.342	[So I]	518.032
389	LES_int_01	517.449	[Sounds familiar.]	518.523
390	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	518.424	[did] my academics in the morning at /RD-SCHOOL-3/.	522.504
391	LES_int_01	522.504	Okay.	523.015
392	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	523.029	<ts> And then I didn't really kind of mingle with	525.883
394		525.986	everyone,	526.667
396		527.092	but also by that time, I was younger than everyone.	530.587
398		530.914	So with my birthday being in November and having	534.051
400		534.358	gone through this accelerated program in junior high school,	537.561
402		538.051	I graduated from school when I was sixteen.	540.396
404		540.848	So	541.566
406		541.846	I was kind of young and having- I think, this is m-	544.969
408		545.183	my view, having been exposed to	547.561
410		548.665	so much with so few boundaries,	551.038
412		551.556	I didn't really get into too much trouble.	553.561
413	LES_int_01	553.891	Right.	554.469
414	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	554.623	Cause I had seen so much and I wasn't really interested, so [since nothing] was a secret what was there to get [into?]	560.24
415	LES_int_01	557.639	[Right.]	558.18
417		560.059	[R- yeah, yeah.]	560.973
418	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	560.838	[So] I didn't really	562.297
419		562.54	get into [too much.] (laughing)	564.541
420	LES_int_01	563.494	[Yeah.]	564.195
422		564.376	[Okay.]	564.912
423	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	565.551	I do remember when they built Haven Plaza. I'm going off on a [tangent. But I do remember] when they built Hazen Plaza [downtown.]	571.769
424	LES_int_01	568.968	[No, that's okay.]	569.812
426		571.685	[Yeah.]	572.095
427	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	572.328	That was considered,	573.289
429		573.392	you know	573.923
431		574.28	middle	574.904
433		575.346	class, middle income.	576.931
435		577.592	Ha-ha.	578.431
436	LES_int_01	578.702	[<laugh>]	580.096
437	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	578.963	[<laugh>]	580.194
438		580.385	And now I think that it's looked on as if it's no better	583.648
440		583.812	or different from the projects, right?	585.618
442		586.515	I think so.	587.486
444		587.872	[Um,]	588.581
445	LES_int_01	587.938	[Mm-hm.]	588.469
446	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	589.293	you know, it's interesting	590.557
448		590.757	i- perspective.	591.9
449	LES_int_01	591.9	Yeah.	592.562
450	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	592.758	I'm trying to think what else do I remember. Do you have any other questions?	595.867
451	LES_int_01	595.867	Um, I'm enjoying getting sort of y- your trajectory. So you went away to college	600.264
452	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	600.385	<ts> [In seventy-four.]	601.694
453	LES_int_01	600.478	[and-]	600.695
454		601.694	[Okay.]	602.283
455	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	601.964	[So a] lot of the- the unrest	604.608
456		605.019	that I saw,	606.25
458		606.952	like, I was too young to get into like, the flower power- I missed [all of that.]	611.852
459	LES_int_01	610.974	[Right. <laugh>]	612.767
460	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	612.585	[I] missed all of it. I was really young, I was like eleven when they were like, goo- well I was wearing go-go [boots.]	618.57
461	LES_int_01	618.477	[Right.]	619.064
462	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	618.873	[So] I didn't have the advantage of getting into any of the st- [fun stuff that people were] doing b- at that time.	624.698
463	LES_int_01	622.255	[<laugh>]	623.515
464		624.882	[Right.]	625.248
465	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	625.148	[Um,] and by the time- at that time, and by the time I	628.855
466		630.146	by the time	631.087
468		631.465	I got into to college, people were pulling back from it.	634.118
470		635.111	They [had- cause] that was seventy-four.	636.941
471	LES_int_01	635.39	[Yeah.]	635.786
473		636.849	[Right.]	637.337
474	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	637.204	[So] there was still, you know, a lot of the drugs and stuff, but not	640.511
475		640.873	the way it was [in the sixties] and early [seventies.] Yeah.	644.271
476	LES_int_01	641.702	[Right.]	642.238
478		642.977	[Right, right.]	643.81
479		644.49	And so how was it- so did you come back to the neighborhood right after [college?]	648.159
480	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	647.898	[No,] I didn't come back until nineteen eighty-	653.133
481		654.514	oh jee,	655.395
483		655.883	eighty-five.	656.816
484	LES_int_01	656.844	Oh, okay. So you had a- a break there.	658.802
485	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	658.807	Yeah, d- [I was-]	660.005
486	LES_int_01	659.436	[What were you doing?]	660.28
487	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	660.215	[I-] from seventy-four to seventy-eight,	662.545
488		663.123	I was in college. From	664.275
490		664.583	seventy-eight to eighty-one,	667.012
492		667.553	<ts> I worked at City Corp	669.14
494		669.264	in their credit card division,	671.051
496		671.166	in Towson, Maryland.	672.974
497	LES_int_01	673.161	[Oh.]	673.831
498	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	673.483	[From eighty-one] to eighty-three, I worked for the Federal Reserve Board	677.102
499	LES_int_01	677.212	[Oh.]	677.761
500	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	677.529	[in DC,]	678.586
501	LES_int_01	678.586	Cool.	678.997
502	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	679.011	under the Reagan administration.	680.757
504		681.198	Um, they were d- it's when the Fed had to- was mandated by Congress to start charging,	686.162
506		686.577	<ts> uh, the banks that they support for their services that they provide.	690.605
508		691.048	And then from eighty-three to eighty-four?	693.613
510		694.083	Eighty-three to eighty-four, or eighty-four to eighty-five,	696.106
512		696.652	I was in California, in Los Angeles. I lived out there for a year. [Hated it.]	700.773
513	LES_int_01	699.808	[Oh, really?]	700.612
514		700.893	[<laugh>]	701.557
515	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	701.471	[And] then moved [back.]	703.046
516	LES_int_01	702.516	[And then you moved back.]	703.416
517	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	703.309	[Mm-hm.]	703.952
518	LES_int_01	703.84	[And] did you move back in with your family?	705.795
519	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	705.962	No.	706.319
521		706.932	I moved- <laugh> no.	709.099
522	LES_int_01	709.173	No. [<laugh>]	710.451
523	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	709.752	[I wasn't going] back to the projects.	711.328
524	LES_int_01	711.575	[Okay.]	711.934
525	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	711.682	[I will] say this,	712.703
526		713.118	I hated the [projects.]	714.343
527	LES_int_01	714.287	[You did?]	714.782
528	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	714.586	[I] absolutely hated the concrete, the brick,	717.146
529		717.534	and even though it was,	719.261
531		719.564	at that time, a relatively safe place,	721.97
533		722.511	I never l- warmed to it. I always thought it was scary.	725.322
534	LES_int_01	725.336	<ts> Oh.	725.98
535	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	726.054	You know, I remember going down like, the stairs and thinking, this is creepy.	729.35
537		729.504	You know, I never-	731.027
539		731.41	never liked it.	732.431
540	LES_int_01	732.459	I [see.]	732.944
541	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	732.888	[And] from our apartment	734.362
542		734.483	we could see	735.625
544		736.636	downtown, the World Trade Center. It was when they were built in- from my	740.589
546		740.996	bedroom.	741.486
548		741.756	[And from the] living room you could see the Empire State Building.	744.59
549	LES_int_01	741.756	[Yeah.]	742.077
550	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	744.976	You know, and I just- I always- I /remem-/	747.093
552		747.235	very vivid- vivid memories of standing in my bedroom	751.302
554		751.652	and looking	752.37
556		752.99	out toward the south,	754.617
558		754.729	and across the street at my school,	756.61
560		756.92	and wondering what was over that horizon.	759.29
562		759.54	And wondering what life would hold for me.	761.321
563	LES_int_01	761.326	[Oh.]	761.95
564	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	761.452	[I just]	761.857
565		762.235	absolutely-	763
567		763.233	and it wasn't-	764.025
569		765.149	it wasn't that clear, [you know. I'm articulating] it better than I did as a [child.]	769.601
570	LES_int_01	766.463	[Yeah.]	767.113
572		769.321	[Right.]	769.869
573	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	769.955	But I just-	770.655
575		770.79	I remember having-	772.044
577		772.477	trying to envision my life. That's what it was. And not being able to see myself past forty,	777.803
579		778.173	cause I couldn't imagine	779.488
581		779.815	what it would be [like.]	780.985
582	LES_int_01	780.845	[Right, right.]	781.829
583	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	781.335	[But in some] ways,	782.774
584	LES_int_01	782.784	[Right.]	783.185
585	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	782.98	[that] was probably a blessing for me,	784.915
586		785.283	because if I had to imagine my life in the confines of the limitations that I saw,	790.319
588		790.677	I would've had a very small dream.	792.714
590		793.25	But	793.73
592		793.838	by not allowing myself to [have] a [dream,]	796.658
593	LES_int_01	795.335	[Hm.]	795.615
595		796.322	[Yeah. <laugh>]	797.567
596	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	796.892	[you know,]	797.501
597		797.717	not that I didn't have a dream, but not being able to formulate, [it allowed] for	801.651
598	LES_int_01	800.849	[Yeah.]	801.243
599	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	801.964	almost endless [possibilites.]	803.804
600	LES_int_01	803.506	[Yeah.]	804.093
601	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	804.201	So- and that's what happened. [That's kind of my-]	806.826
602	LES_int_01	805.777	[That's great.]	806.486
603	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	807.25	the way I moved through life, for me,	809.6
604	LES_int_01	809.716	[Yeah.]	810.103
605	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	809.982	[was,] um,	811.474
606		811.762	very much by happenstance. That I allowed things to happen to me.	815.471
607	LES_int_01	815.59	Okay.	816.066
608	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	816.159	Um,	816.782
610		816.994	but I must say that I g- I-	819.049
612		819.478	I carried the Lower East Side with me wherever. If you look	822.81
614		822.941	wherever I lived, I always chose places	825.827
616		826.429	that,	827.142
618		828.024	as much as possible, would look like the Lower East Side.	831.059
619	LES_int_01	831.221	[Huh.]	831.51
620	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	831.357	[So] it'd have to have a diverse [community,]	833.281
621	LES_int_01	833.207	[Yeah.]	833.65
622	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	833.734	<ts> it had to be	834.526
624		834.652	pretty much in t- in the city.	836.326
626		836.793	Um, and it had to have,	838.922
628		839.524	you know, a-	840.312
630		840.554	I had to have the ability to walk.	842.158
631	LES_int_01	842.424	[Mm.]	842.942
632	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	842.466	[So in] Atlanta, I lived in- I can't remember the name of that-	846.362
633		846.549	of that-	847.109
635		847.218	area of town now,	848.284
637		848.629	<ts> but it was always- it became like, the hot spot. Um,	852.628
639		853.888	what was the name of it?	855.062
641		857.1	<ts> It's off of Piedmont Park.	858.85
643		859.267	But that became,	860.558
645		860.843	you know, where all the college kids were- were living, and it [became] the hip	864.675
646	LES_int_01	863.532	[Right.]	863.912
647	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	865.206	[place to- the Highlands.]	867.071
648	LES_int_01	865.423	[The hip place to live.]	866.471
649	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	867.444	That [became the hip] place	869.155
650	LES_int_01	867.859	[Okay.]	868.386
651	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	869.476	to [live.]	870.157
652	LES_int_01	870.021	[Okay.]	870.45
653	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	870.665	Um, when I lived in	872.626
655		872.8	Baltimore, I lived right downtown on Biddle Street,	875.882
657		876.198	Which was	876.781
659		876.926	the hip place, it was [kind of] edgy.	878.833
660	LES_int_01	877.94	[Mm.]	878.273
661	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	879.029	It was the same thing, I mean, it was all- it was [very] consistent	882.236
662	LES_int_01	881.005	[Right.]	881.526
663	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	882.665	in terms of	883.579
665		883.755	where I feel comfortable.	885.606
666	LES_int_01	885.718	[Yeah.]	886.138
667	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	886.077	[It-] when I lived in	887.649
668		887.779	DC, I lived in, um,	890.393
670		890.939	Fort-	891.849
672		892.963	oh God, I'm trying to think of the name of the street.	895.276
674		895.7	It's right across the bridge from the national	897.988
676		898.09	park.	898.729
678		899.34	[I don't remember.]	900.033
679	LES_int_01	899.34	[Huh. Mm-hm.]	900.412
680	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	900.259	[But it] was the same	901.446
681		901.69	thing, [you know,] where it's very diverse community	904.683
682	LES_int_01	902.258	[Yeah.]	902.686
683	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	905.541	kind of on the edge, some people would say a little dangerous,	908.258
685		908.449	always.	909.06
686	LES_int_01	909.102	Yeah.	909.54
687	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	909.55	And then when I, um,	911.905
689		912.73	lived- when I moved back,	914.608
691		914.748	my	915.487
693		915.759	high school teacher,	916.906
695		917.783	who had always been like a surrogate mother to me,	920.538
696	LES_int_01	920.538	Mm-hm.	920.921
697	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	921.186	um, had an apartment up in Harlem. And she said, you know, I'm going to do my PhD in DC,	926.52
699		926.93	my son is living in my two bedroom apartment, go on and move in there.	930.225
701		930.491	I mean, I later found out that she was trying to set me up with her son.	933.299
702	LES_int_01	933.587	[<laugh>]	935.051
703	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	933.843	[But, it t- and we became] really good [friends-]	936.533
704	LES_int_01	936.29	[Didn't] work? [<laugh>]	937.782
705	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	937.018	[didn't work out,] no.	938.239
706	LES_int_01	938.621	[<laugh>]	939.229
707	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	938.844	[It didn't] work out.	939.566
708	LES_int_01	940.061	[That's funny.]	940.938
709	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	940.113	[But, um,]	941.218
710		941.362	<ts> so I lived there. And then she had another apartment, as people are wont to do, on	945.922
712		946.384	Central Park West, so I lived there for a while.	948.565
714		948.97	And I put my name on the waiting list, since- cause you always go [back to your neighborhood.]	952.334
715	LES_int_01	951.325	[To Stuyvesant.]	952.215
716	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	952.602	You always go- I think you always go home.	954.457
718		954.933	And now with my son, I'm doing the same thing. I'm- I'm-	958.7
720		959.465	I am tickled that,	961.587
722		961.779	um, he has the opportunity to see what I saw,	965.385
724		965.949	to have the experience that I [have.]	967.87
725	LES_int_01	967.772	[Yeah.]	968.248
726	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	968.248	It's in some ways it's unfortunate cause Stuyvesant Town is not that diverse.	971.955
727		972.434	You know, it's mostly white.	973.701
728	LES_int_01	973.738	[Mm-hm.]	974.177
729	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	973.878	[And] I think that,	975.922
730		976.103	um,	976.695
732		977.627	<ts>	977.716
734		978.397	I think he feels it.	979.552
736		979.682	I feel b-	980.223
738		980.34	you know, I feel it for him.	981.93
739	LES_int_01	982.065	[Uh-huh.]	982.522
740	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	982.177	[And he feels] it. We talk about it. We've been talking about it since he was	985.277
741		985.422	four.	985.837
742	LES_int_01	985.837	[<laugh>]	987.39
743	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	986.396	[/You know./] (laughing)	987.128
744		987.556	And he's sensitive to it, but	989.668
746		989.883	[I think he's also lucky.]	991.235
747	LES_int_01	989.883	[So how will his-]	990.963
748		991.364	how will his experience be different from yours, I mean, in terms of the neighborhood? What's-	995.873
750		996.009	i- i- it's obviously very different now then it was when you grew up there,	999.497
752		1000.214	so what will he-	1001.257
754		1001.364	what will his experience be like, do you think?	1003.396
755	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1003.677	I don't think- I- i- I don't know.	1006.057
757		1006.288	Um,	1006.952
759		1007.729	the first six years- cause he's six,	1009.529
761		1009.882	the first six years is- is that he's	1012.125
763		1012.312	kind of in a bubble,	1013.426
765		1013.818	you know, in some ways. He's [not-]	1015.423
766	LES_int_01	1015.356	[Mm-hm.]	1015.72
767	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1015.752	I mean, I was kind of scrappy.	1017.391
769		1018.194	You- I remember, um,	1020.344
771		1022.618	I remembered	1023.667
773		1023.876	as- as much as I say there d- you know d- and I'm kind of backtracking now,	1028.982
775		1029.635	i- I don't know how to- to express this,	1031.42
777		1032.176	in hindsight it was	1033.893
779		1034.082	th-	1034.24
781		1034.408	it wasn't	1035.424
783		1036.469	as bad as it is today, in terms of the guns and the violence.	1039.742
785		1040.403	But it was that it had an edge to [it.]	1042.954
786	LES_int_01	1042.875	[Right.]	1043.343
787	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1043.35	You know, and I felt that,	1044.847
789		1044.954	and I think my sister felt that. [And we] weren't-	1047.69
790	LES_int_01	1046.818	[Mm-hm.]	1047.294
791	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1048.278	I think that we weren't-	1049.328
793		1049.7	we were part of the community, but we weren't part of the community.	1052.497
795		1052.963	You know, a lot of the people that I grew with, I see them now, I say hi, but	1057.438
797		1057.774	we were never close, we were never friends. I was always more school- bound to [school than I was]	1063.005
798	LES_int_01	1061.998	[Okay.]	1062.652
799	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1063.517	to the [projects.]	1064.755
800	LES_int_01	1064.575	[Right.]	1065.083
801	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1065.111	But at the same time I was very much bound to the neighborhood. I loved the [neighborhood.]	1069.382
802	LES_int_01	1069.259	[Oh, interesting.]	1070.254
803	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1070.109	[So] my son, I don't- I think is more bound to the neighborhood,	1073.713
804		1074.347	to the community,	1075.325
805	LES_int_01	1075.345	[Yeah.]	1075.652
806	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1075.624	[you] know. W- we interact more,	1077.983
807		1078.51	um,	1079.13
809		1079.232	and not that I didn't, but I think that it's different.	1082.272
811		1082.655	I'm trying to figure out how.	1084.239
813		1084.868	I think that	1085.899
815		1086.249	what he's seeing is a more affluent	1088.543
817		1089.082	[neighborhood outside] of Stuyvesant [Town.]	1091.909
818	LES_int_01	1089.684	[Yeah.]	1090.319
820		1091.791	[Yeah.]	1092.244
821	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1092.397	You know, there are million dollar [co-ops down there.]	1095.364
822	LES_int_01	1094.579	[The gentrification- the gentrification] that's [w-]	1096.364
823	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1096.299	[Very much so.]	1097.538
824	LES_int_01	1096.523	[what is happening.]	1097.172
826		1097.363	[Yeah.]	1097.856
827	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1098.062	You know, um,	1099.139
829		1099.52	it is- it is becoming less diverse,	1102.001
831		1102.406	but that-	1103.166
833		1104.323	and it had become less diverse, because,	1106.854
835		1107.246	um,	1107.902
837		1108.183	the Jews, the Italians, the Poles, moved out of the [projects.]	1111.712
838	LES_int_01	1111.549	[Right.]	1112.001
839	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1112.034	You know, and it became mostly black and [Hispanic,]	1114.653
840	LES_int_01	1114.537	[Yeah.]	1114.949
841	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1114.949	right.	1115.394
842	LES_int_01	1115.394	Yeah.	1115.74
843	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1115.758	The P- uh, the Poles moved, and the Eastern Europeans	1118.555
845		1118.802	moved out of the Lower East Side. There are still	1121.32
847		1121.544	a [group.]	1122.318
848	LES_int_01	1121.959	[A little] pocket. [Yeah.]	1123.302
849	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1122.915	[<ts> But] not,	1123.916
850		1124.117	you know,	1124.761
852		1124.858	they've either moved down to and are still on Grand Street- but even that's changing.	1129.771
853	LES_int_01	1129.955	[Yeah.]	1130.354
854	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1130.042	[A lot of] people are dying off, their children are not holding on to those apartments,	1134.112
855	LES_int_01	1134.136	Right.	1134.561
856	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1134.583	um, or they're moving. A lot [of people] move to Florida.	1137.258
857	LES_int_01	1136.074	[Right.]	1136.414
858	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1137.557	You know, a lot of people got their Archie Bunker [and are k- in Queens.]	1141.109
859	LES_int_01	1139.865	[Right, right. <laugh>]	1141.179
860	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1141.617	Um, so	1142.895
862		1143.53	I think that- so it became,	1145.744
864		1145.907	especially on the northern part of the Lower East Side	1148.419
866		1148.549	black and [Hispanic]	1149.916
867	LES_int_01	1149.869	[Yeah.]	1150.207
868	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1150.289	and lots of drugs.	1151.429
870		1151.689	So it became very, um,	1154.312
872		1154.951	<ts> um,	1155.842
874		1156.871	i- it became	1158.368
876		1158.821	less diverse.	1159.898
877	LES_int_01	1160.233	[Okay.]	1160.596
878	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1160.368	[It was] very diverse when I was growing, it became less [diverse,]	1162.712
879	LES_int_01	1162.661	[Right.]	1163.073
880	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1163.197	and then now it's- the- the group is changing.	1166.153
882		1166.456	Right?	1166.927
883	LES_int_01	1166.945	Mm-hm.	1167.308
884	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1167.322	So it's not,	1168.567
886		1168.891	in this case,	1169.916
888		1170.069	you know, it's- i-	1171.006
890		1171.298	people are being displaced, yeah.	1172.964
892		1173.523	Um,	1174.366
894		1175.998	the neighorhood is- is changing. I-	1178.138
896		1178.46	[in some ways it's k-]	1179.317
897	LES_int_01	1178.474	[What was your] opinion on that? Like, uh- uh, gentrification and,	1182.031
898		1182.24	you know, the fact that some folks do get displaced as a result of that?	1185.397
899	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1186.437	I think that	1187.828
901		1188.327	it's a bigger question-	1189.048
903		1189.173	it's- it's more- that's a big question.	1191.91
904	LES_int_01	1191.957	Yeah.	1192.335
905	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1192.819	And it's interesting because in this, where we're sitting now,	1196.483
907		1196.903	<ts> um, the people in this side is-	1199.192
909		1199.341	they're apart of community development. We deal with a lot of community [groups.]	1203.06
910	LES_int_01	1202.954	[Mm-hm.]	1203.423
911	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1203.485	And we have these discussions all the time.	1205.531
912	LES_int_01	1205.53	/?/	1205.984
913	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1206.063	It's a very difficult question because	1208.711
915		1209.122	on the one side, there's an absolute	1211.372
917		1211.48	need for affordable housing.	1213.83
918	LES_int_01	1213.937	Right.	1214.329
919	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1214.375	Um,	1215.148
921		1215.773	people deserve-	1216.799
923		1217.214	I mean, this-	1217.75
925		1218.159	for me,	1218.911
927		1219.121	personally,	1219.914
929		1221.019	I would- I- I-	1222.505
931		1222.92	I saw this coming a long time ago and I was disheartened	1226.38
933		1226.753	when- when, um, chains	1229.069
935		1229.876	started coming into the city.	1231.489
937		1231.62	You know, Gaps and to me this is all part of that movement.	1235.237
938	LES_int_01	1235.237	[Okay.]	1235.697
939	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1235.573	[And] New York,	1236.696
940		1236.836	it's losing, or has lost, its uniqueness.	1239.814
941	LES_int_01	1240.09	[Mm-hm.]	1240.421
942	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1240.29	[In] terms of having individual stores and- and real communities.	1243.773
943	LES_int_01	1244.144	Right.	1244.563
944	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1245.521	At the same time, is it better to have better to have drug-infested neighborhoods?	1249.489
946		1250.249	It's like there's no middle [ground.]	1252.103
947	LES_int_01	1251.828	[Yeah.]	1252.439
948	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1252.532	And [I don't- how] do you find that.	1254.761
949	LES_int_01	1252.877	[How do you find that?]	1253.768
950	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1254.924	That's the	1255.703
952		1255.806	the [question.] So	1257.244
953	LES_int_01	1256.014	[Right]	1256.574
954	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1257.753	yeah. D-	1258.369
956		1258.481	it's sad	1259.469
957	LES_int_01	1259.833	[Yeah.]	1260.379
958	LES_se0_ag4_f_02	1260.09	[and] I think that we need to find middle ground.	1263.385
959		1263.539	I don't know how you do that.	1264.728
961		1264.882	I really don't know how you answer that [question.]	1266.924
962	LES_int_01	1266.831	[Yeah.]	1267.287
963		1267.437	I have no- I don't either <laugh>.	1269.319